stickland conversation 25 august 2011

Michael Watts shared a linkvia Talking Points Memo.August 25, 2011

Cantor Spox: If There's Hurricane Damage, Costs Will Have To Be Paid For With Spending Cuts

tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.comLooks like House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-VA) will extend his requirement that federal disaster relief be paid for by cutting spending elsewhere in the budget to Hurricane Irene.

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Jonathan Stickland Maybe those who cannot afford to rebuild after the damage or those not smart enough to take out insurance to protect there investments shouldn't have decided to live by the coast. Who the hell moves to the coast and doesn't consider the chance of a hurricane wiping out everything they own/have built? Idiots.

August 25, 2011 at 4:48pm · Like

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SD Langley Maybe some people can't afford to live anywhere else, or are forced to live on the coast.


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Jonathan Stickland Forced by who or what? I thought there was freedom in this country. And coastal markets are usually a lot more expensive.


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SD Langley By economics...and coastal markets aren't always more expensive. I lived in Galveston, and it is not all glamorous and expensive.


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Jonathan Stickland Either way who is forcing them to live there?


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SD Langley When I lived in Galveston, I couldn't afford to live anywhere else.


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Jonathan Stickland Did you have a job?


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Michael Watts There is inherent risk where ever you live.

Washington: earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanoesVirginia: hurricanesTexas: tornadoes, extreme heat


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SD Langley Yes I did, and I was raising a small child.


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Jonathan Stickland And one should weigh the pros and cons and likelyhoods on all of those when making a decision like this.


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Jonathan Stickland Well maybe you needed to get a second job or ask someone else to help you. Not Washington.


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SD Langley Um, I had people helping me, and I was working my ass off. Maybe you should be more understanding of others.


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Jonathan Stickland I am personally, but Washington shouldn't be.







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SD Langley I think that Washington should give a shit about the well-being of its citizens.

August 25, 2011 at 4:56pm · Like · 4

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Jonathan Stickland Generally yes I agree. But why should I pay for some idiot who built a house along to coast to rebuild because he did not have the brains to consider this as happening and make the necassary provisions?


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SD Langley Whatever. I come from generations of Galvestonians, and they are not idiots.


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Jonathan Stickland They are if they depend on Washington to rebuild there homes if they are destroyed.


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SD Langley Even if one makes the necessary provisions, shit still can happen...no matter where you are.



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Jonathan Stickland It is called insurance and charitys, not government.


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SD Langley Insurance...LMAO...

August 25, 2011 at 4:59pm · Like · 1

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Jonathan Stickland Government hand outs.....LMAO...


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SD Langley I think insurance is a good idea, but maybe not everyone can AFFORD it.


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Jonathan Stickland Then they shouldn't own a house to begin with and won't be effected by said hurricane. Problem solved.


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SD Langley What a snob. Not everyone living in hurricane-prone areas can AFFORD to own a house.


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Jonathan Stickland They what are they loosing that the government needs to give them money we don't have for?


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SD Langley Oh, and you don't have to live right on the coast to be affected by a storm.

August 25, 2011 at 5:26pm · Like · 1

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Michael Watts Jon: When I was in the Navy, the nuclear power school was in Charleston, SC. That was where I lived because that was where the school was. If I wanted to be a nuke, I had to go there.

Upon graduation, I got the choice to be stationed either on the East Coast or the West Coast. I understood the inherent risks of living on the coasts, after all I was in the Navy. Ships sail in the water and they are on the coast.

Well.... I did go to a West Coast ship (USS Carl Vinson in Bremerton, WA), that ended up on the East Coast due to it was time for it to undergo a major maintenance period. So, yes, that is an example of a job where your choices are limited.

Had I a chosen to stay in, I could have gone to recruiting duty (where I could have lived anywhere) or gone back to the nuke school as an instructor (in South Carolina) or gone to another ship (preferably West Coast). At 18, the Navy was a good choice for me. At 24 going to 25, it was time to do something else for a while.

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So, I came back to Texas to utilize my education benefits through the GI Bill and once those are exhausted Hazelwood. I also had the support system of my family to assist me in my transition to civilian life. Again, another choice based on what was offered to me. I could have chosen to stay in (pay, health benefits, travel) BUT the offer of becoming a civilian outweighed the benefits of staying Navy.

With every choice there is in life, there is inherent risk. For example, driving on Airport Freeway. People travel that road without incident, but there is always a chance someone is going to get into a wreck.

By your logic, we should all become hermits because dealing with real life is such a danger. I could be driving in my car, end up with a flat tire, and while I am changing the tire I get hit by a car. Or I am walking to my next class on campus and a skateboarder slams into me.

I am not hearing too many complaints from people living in that part of the country because hurricanes are a common occurrence there. It is a fact of life there same as in California with earthquakes and tornadoes in Texas. In fact, while I was in VA we had a tropical storm hit the Hampton Roads Area. It wasn't that big of deal; just a lot of rain & wind and you had to drive 35 mph crossing the Monitor Merrimack Bridge Tunnel.

I hate to inform you but most of the world's population is concentrated near the coasts. Be lucky that we live in the United States where we have disaster relief plans compared to other places that have high population densities near the coasts.

(rant over)

August 25, 2011 at 5:53pm · Like · 1

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Hannah Ulbrich Jonathan, I'm just going to wade in here and point out that people are not as mobile as you might imagine. Are they *allowed* to move to other places? Sure. People whose jobs depend on working in a coast-specific industry, and whose social support is centered around a specific community don't have that luxury.

August 25, 2011 at 5:59pm · Unlike · 2


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George Nassar waitasec, I think somebody missed the boat here somewhere. You don't want government to do it -- but you're OK with charities doing it? "Yeah, it's fine if a publicly-funded institution does it, as long as they are worse funded and have higher overhead?" Seriously, that doesn't even make any sense. Depending on charities for stuff like this would help a tiny fraction of the people who the government is able to.

And just since you're wondering, the reason the government gives them "money we don't have" is because if you don't, the underserved will end up clogging the government's health and social service institutions, and cost you ten times more per person in the long run. It's economically stupid *not* to help the people who need it. Of course, I'm sure you'll argue that we could just get rid of those social service institutions too, since they're "not necessary," and we could just operate with a huge middle -- um, I mean lower -- class in abject poverty that we walk around and ignore like a third world country; I'm sure that'd be great too. (Oh, yeah, then we'd end up losing a third of our workforce and not be able to maintain GDP numbers, so we *still* lose billions for doing that... wait, does that mean that helping people that need it is a net economic good that raises all ships? No, that couldn't be, von Mises told me so! Libertarians = shitty at macroeconomics.)


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George Nassar To follow up on Hannah's: "The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread." - Anatole France


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Michael Watts Missing the boat.... LOL George...

August 25, 2011 at 8:02pm · Like · 1

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Jonathan Stickland George you have missed the boat buddy. The government is not able to do it anyways. The country is broke. I know you don't give a flip about that fact and are ok with denying it until it kills us all but I know it is real.

The middle class is gone because of retarded liberals like yourself who punish people for being successful and succeeding. You have run all the good jobs to other countries because companies refuse to pay the 2nd highest corporate tax rates in the world. You continue to try and pick winners and losers in the free market ruining the chances of a entrepreneur ever getting going. You did it with your liberal policies.

Your savior Obama refuses to do anything about it. he is Bush's 3rd term as far as I am concerned. He has nothing to offer but keeps throwing shit in the way of the free market working through all of it on its own. Amazing she hasn't died already.

What pisses me off about morons like you is you refuse to own up to the truth. Fine have your beliefs, but don't bullshit me and tell me you give a flip about the constitution. Or free markets, or that your anything other than a socialist and a weak one at that. Obama sold you up the river yet you still beg to suck off the teet for more. It is horribly sad to see you care more about your damn political party than this country, otherwise Obama would at least have a challenger in the primaries.

But nope ain't gonna happen. You'd rather sick back collect your unemployment, go on a march or two on my families dime in San Fransisco and shout about how the white Christian man is ruining your life and the environment. And how bad Bush sucks and Bachmann is a hater. You care more about Obama winning and the GOP losing that fixing this country or holding Obama accountable for his lies and deceptions. You make me want to puke.


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SD Langley Monica Roberts needs to school Jonathan...




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SD Langley Oh, and George Nassar, I love you (in that non-romantic way) for being so smart.


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SD Langley Oh, and Jonathan...when I was in San Francisco, it sure as shit was not on YOUR family's dime.


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SD Langley As a disabled person, I find the term "retarded" to be incredibly insensitive. Also, Michael's aunt is considered "mentally challenged" and Michael will be really pissed off that you used such a slur.


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Monica Roberts @Jonathan...the 'retarded' comment is abelist.

But that's par for the course for arrogant white Ayn Rand reading conservafools like yourself holding on to a failed political philosophy like a wino desperately clutching on to his last bottle of Boone's Farm.

And don't tell me that conservafools like yourself give a rats anus about anyone who isn't white, male, racist and obscenely wealthy. It was liberals who passed the New Deal, The Great Society, collective bargaining, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, funded NASA, the Interstate Highway system, the EPA, passed universal public education, women's suffrage, civil rights for African Americans, all advances that conservaidiots fought tooth and nail and are fighting to repeal.





Conservafools are too selfish to realize that the private sector can't and many times wont do the things that society needs, and it takes government investment to get the party started.


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SD Langley I want to be Monica when I grow up.


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Monica Roberts By the way Jonathan, in 1999 the GAO ranked the ten American presidents of the 20th century (5 Dems 5 GOP) on economic performance. Care to guess where the Republican presidents of the 20th century ranked?

6th, 7th 8th 9th and 10th. the Democrats ranked 1-5


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Jonathan Stickland Monica - Your response is so predictable I could not help but laugh out loud. Resort to calling me a racist sexist, HILARITY!

I am so glad you toot the liberal horn on all those insanely "successful" programs. While perhaps they had good intentions they are exactly what has this country in the fiscal situation we are in now. Broke and broken. So you can take every single thing you listed and put it where the sun don't shine as far as I am concerned. You have bankrupted this nation and unless sane inteligent folks like myself can stop you soon, you will ruin us forever. I won


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Monica Roberts The only thing 'proven conservative leadership has repeatedly demonstrated since 1980 is how fast it can frack up the economy, divide Americans instead of unite them, and how stupid its adherents are.

August 25, 2011 at 10:46pm · Like · 1

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Jonathan Stickland I wont stop trying to put leeches like yourself out of office because I love this country more than you could ever dream of


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SD Langley Monica knows what's really going on.


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Jonathan Stickland And Stacey I am pretty sure you and Michael do not have jobs, so it was on my dime you went on your liberal escapades.


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SD Langley My political ideology doesn't have a DAMN thing to do with how much I love this country.

I do have a job...as a community organizer.


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Jonathan Stickland Monica I hate Bush as much as you do. This country has not seen or adhered to my political views since Jefferson, so your points on GOP leadership are mute and void to me.


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Jonathan Stickland But you don't get a paycheck for it Stacey. So it was on my dime. And at my childrens expense. Thief.


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SD Langley Oh, and Jonathan, I also work as a journalist, which I DO get paid for.


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Jonathan Stickland $100 a article once a month maybe?


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SD Langley Oh, and my husband has done way more for OUR country than you have.


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Jonathan Stickland I bet you collect social security, disability, maybe food stamps and everything else. Guess what? I paid for it.


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SD Langley And so does EVERY other American.


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Jonathan Stickland Every other American does what?


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SD Langley Yes, I am on Social Security, which all Americans pay into.


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Jonathan Stickland You telling me you have paid in more over your lifetime than you have collected? Bullcrap.


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SD Langley No, I never said that. Disability isn't fun, BTW...try being a person with chronic pain that was bedridden for a month.







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Jonathan Stickland I never said it was, nor did I say you don't deserve help for your conditions because I think you do.


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SD Langley Well, I get help from the government, and it's not as much as you think.


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Monica Roberts If the white sheet fits Jonathan, sport it. It's the GOP since 1964 who has been the home of the Dixiecrats. It's the GOP who on a almost weekly basis says and does something anti civil rights, anti-woman, anti-minority and enacts punitive policies aimed at those groups.

You prove everything people say about conservatives in terms of the vanilla scented arrogance and the closed mind you are displaying right now.

Guess what Jonathan, contratry to what you and other Conservafools think, if you turned off Rush Limbaugh and Fox noise, Llatin@ and African Americans are also taxpaying citizens whose taxes go to paying for things like Social Security, colleges and universities, public school et cetera.

The difference is were not stupid as you white conservatives are to repeatedly vote for people who have been lying to you and screwing you sice the Civil War.

August 25, 2011 at 10:53pm · Like · 1

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Jonathan Stickland I do not however think its fair that my family gets thousands taken from us every year which is then given to you to go across the country and marching and protesting so that more is taken from us and given back to you.


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SD Langley I protest against injustice, not to get more taken from you.


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Jonathan Stickland Monica do you read sweety? I hate Rush Limbaugh and I hate Fox news. Drop the liberal talking points and quit calling me a racist and lets have a discussion. Otherwise shutup.


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SD Langley Monica is a grown woman, not "sweety"...


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Michael Watts The purpose of me posting this story was to highlight that House Republicans are willing to use a hurricane in order to play political football. This is ridiculous.

This hurricane, among a worst case scenario, is expected to make landfall in Cape Hatteras, NC, go back out to sea and land in the Hampton Roads Metropolitan Area of Virginia, continue up the coast into New Jersey and New York. There is the potential for a lot of damage and the loss of life. There is an old saying: "Plan for the worst, hope for the west."

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Of course, Jon, you subscribe to the belief that has been proven wrong that government is not the solution, but the problem. If we subscribed to that belief then we would still be 13 individual states primarily on the east coast.

There was a time in this country that the Republican Party was responsible. Dwight D. Eisenhower said this in 1954 in a letter to his brother:

"Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are H. L. Hunt (you possibly know his background), a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid."

If you read the 1956 GOP Platform, it sounds like the modern Democratic Party Platform.

Jon, you and your libertarian ilk should be laughed out of existence. Instead, it has taken over and become mainstream Republican thought.

August 25, 2011 at 10:55pm · Like · 1

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Michael Watts Even though this was from several comments back, I am disgusted that someone would stoop to that level. I have an aunt that I care deeply about that is special needs. Congratulations.... you have a new low.

August 25, 2011 at 10:56pm · Like · 1

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Jonathan Stickland I am not for abolishing social security Michael, quit assuming stupid things. I am for allowing people to opt out of the system if they so desire to. Instead you want to mandate how I live my life and how my income is spent. Its thievery and injustice and morally wrong.


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SD Langley Snort.


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Jonathan Stickland So I use a general statement liked retarded and you get all pissy with me. But your ok with this woman calling me a racist and everything else which you KNOW is total crap. That is pretty low yourself Michael.


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Jonathan Stickland I apologize for my choice of using the word retarded. It was a casual statement and not a personal jab against those with special needs.


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SD Langley Well, it's not hard to think before you speak.


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Monica Roberts Yawn I think you got the script flipped about which party wants to mandate how you live you life. I daresay the restrictive regulations GOP controlled governments have put in concerning abortion, banning same gender couples from getting married, stripping union members of their collective barganing rights are productions of people who call themselves,






survey says CONSERVATIVES?

Turn off the Fox news Jonathan, and maybe we can have an adult conversation someday

August 25, 2011 at 11:01pm · Like · 1

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Jonathan Stickland Many of us are not as aware of these sensitivities like you are. I have never dealt with it personally. So forgive me for my ignorance on that matter. Accept my apology and lets move forward in the discussion instead of throwing more low blows which have nothing to do with the topic at hand Stacey.


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SD Langley I wasn't the first to throw a low blow, BTW.


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Jonathan Stickland Monica, shutup. You are not reading what I am writing. I am pro-union rights, and I am pro-gay marriage. You obviously have no clue where I stand nor a desire to understand it at all. Either read what I am saying or step aside.


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Jonathan Stickland I am a bit extra heated tonight Stacey. I just wrote a $2600 check to the state of Texas for my property taxes that will go to pay for a educational system that sucks and my family will never use. It is bullshit and its unfair.







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Michael Watts You know what is morally wrong.... the fact that we claim to be the greatest nation on earth, and we can't put children through school or adequately feed them.

We have people screaming for smaller government, but don't let gay people marry or women seek an abortion.

We put a man on the moon, but we can't figure out how to make our infrastructure more environmentally sound.

We have seen the greatest transfers of wealth from the middle class to the wealthiest one percent, but if try to make it more balanced.... oh, that's SOCIALISM.

We have one person, Grover Norquist, who has mandated that representatives must sign a pledge to not raise taxes on the super rich. I'm sorry.... but our representatives took a pledge to represent US not Grover Norquist.

I think about how we could have solved the problems that this country faced if we had one party willing to compromise and the other making demands when coming to the bargaining table. We would be stuck in neutral as we are right now.

August 25, 2011 at 11:06pm · Like · 1

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SD Langley Well, I am sorry that you're pissed, Jonathan, but what about the other children that will benefit from public schools. I paid my taxes when I was working, before I became a parent, and I didn't piss and moan about it.


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Jonathan Stickland It is not my responsibility to help other peoples children Stacey at the expense of my own. I didn't sign up for it. If I want to help them let me decide on my own which way I want to do it. It is immoral for someone to take my money and spend it on things I disagree with. That is not freedom and it is not Liberty.


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Jonathan Stickland Michael I agree with you. It is bullshit. And you know why we can't get anything done? Because NO ONE PLAYS BY THE RULES. The constitution has been shitted on by both parties for decades and everyone is going off the charts extreme in there interpretations of it. Then they turn around and call the only few people who do want to try and adhere to it and defend it crazy, unelectable or they ignore they even exist. Until we have people who will work within a step guideline of rules, we will spin the tires forever in every which way.


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Jonathan Stickland PS- I am going to bed. Talk to ya'll again soon I am sure. Love ya both even though I think you are totally wrong! Lets grab a beer sometime soon Michael, it has been a long time.


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Michael Watts Second point: To imply that Stacey and I are lazy is utter bull and shit.

Stacey is my wife and my mother's daughter-in-law. She is an amazing person. Despite being low income, she finds a way to get it done. She has gone to San Francisco Pride. She is on the Board for BiNet USA. In the Houston LGBT community, she is worshiped. When we went down to Houston for the Transgendered Summit, people were in awe of her.

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I am a six-year Navy Veteran pursuing his degree with a major in mathematics with a minor in political science under the GI Bill. I served my country and I believe I still am to this day, just in a different capacity. My college is paid for and I get a monthly stipend to live on. The addition of a monthly stipend (E-5 BAH with dependents for the zip code one lives in) is recent. It was authorized under the Post 9-11 GI Bill that passed in 2008. The GI Bill has been in existence since 1945.

So yes, since I am getting paid to go to school, my job right now is to go to school.

To insist that I am stealing from your family is utter non-sense. It is an insult to the 2 million people who are currently serving in uniform and to the countless others who have served in our nation's history.

August 25, 2011 at 11:42pm · Like · 2

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Hannah Ulbrich In this thread:Michael points out House Republicans are using a natural disaster as leverage. Johnathan asserts that the government shouldn't be helping people in the event of a natural disaster in the first place.Stacey points out a fallacy in Johnathan's thinking. Johnathan responds with a (perhaps unintentional) personal attack. Various people including myself and George respond logically to the points of Johnathan's argument against government aid. Johnathan responds with heated argumentum ad hominem and the thread devolves completely into insult slinging.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is why we can't have nice things.

August 26, 2011 at 11:18am · Unlike · 1

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Mary Brown Wow, this is one of the worst things I have read in a while. Everyone made at least one good point, but the "who's that jackass?" award goes to Michael's little friend, Strickland. Go live on that little libertarian island that the pay-pal founder is building. No minimum wage, no building codes, all the automatic weapons you want with no *stupid* public schools or any public services for that matter. You'll get to choose exactly how you live! No paying taxes on things you don't believe in (like poverty and poor people)


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and you'll let the free market decide *everything* in your life. Let's hope that little island doesn't get fucked by a hurricane though.

August 27, 2011 at 12:23am · Like

stickland conversation 25 august 2011

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