Philosophy 190: Plato Fall, 2014 Prof. Peter Hadreas Course website: http://www.sjsu.edu/people/peter.hadreas /courses/Plato

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<ul><li>Slide 1</li></ul><p>Philosophy 190: Plato Fall, 2014 Prof. Peter Hadreas Course website: http://www.sjsu.edu/people/peter.hadreas /courses/Plato Slide 2 PLATO: HIPPARCHUS Slide 3 HIPPARCHUS FIRST DIALECTICAL ARGUMENT SOCRATES: What is greed? What can it be, and who are greedy people? FRIEND: In my opinion, theyre the ones who think its a good idea to profit from thing of no value. SOCRATES: Do you think they know these things are of no value, or do they not know. For if they dont know, you mean greedy people are stupid. FRIEND: No, I dont know theyre stupid. What I mean is this: theyre unscrupulous and wicked people who are overcome by profit, knowing that the things which they dare to profit are of no value; 1 yet their shamelessness makes them dare to be greedy. _______________ 1. have no use value, but recognize they have exchange value? 1 Slide 4 HIPPARCHUS SOCRATES: So, then, do you mean that the greedy person is, for example, like a farmer who plants, knowing that his plant is of no value, and thinks its a good idea to profit from the plant when fully grown? 2 FRIEND: The greedy person, at any rate, Socrates, thinks he ought to profit from everything. SOCRATES: Dont let me make you give in like that, as if you had somehow been tricked by something; pay attention and answer as if I were asking again from the beginning. Dont you agree that the greedy person knows about the value of the thing from which he thinks it is a good idea to profit? FRIEND: I do. __________________ 2. Perhaps Socrates is presuming that seedling has no or little exchange value but will have exchange value when fully grown. 2 Slide 5 HIPPARCHUS SOCRATES: So who knows about the value of plants, in what seasons and soils its a good idea to plant them if we may throw in one of those clever phrases with which legal experts beautify their speeches? 1 FRIEND: The farmer, I think. SOCRATES: By thinking its a good idea to profit do you mean anything but thinking one ought to profit? 2 FRIEND: Thats what I mean. __________________ 1. The Greek words for seasons and soils rhyme. 2. Socrates ahs not captured the friends meaning. Socrates has said, the greedy person knows about the value of the thing from which he thinks it is a good idea to profit? This must mean the greedy person know the exchange value of what he thinks it is a good idea to profit. D/he doesnt care about its use value 3 Slide 6 HIPPARCHUS SOCRATES: Well then, dont try to deceive me Im already an old man and youre so very young by answering as you did just right now, saying what you yourself dont think; tell the truth. 1 Do you think there is any man who takes up farming, and expects to profit from planting crops that he know to be of no value? FRIEND: By, Zeus, I dont! SOCRATES: Well then, do you think that a horseman who knowingly gives his horse food that is of no value 2 is unaware that he is harming his horse? FRIEND: I dont. SOCRATES: So he doesnt expect to profit from food that has no value. FRIEND: No. __________________ 1. In a sense Socrates, it right to caution the friend to say what he thinks. The friend, however, isnt intentionally deceiving Socrates, hes just led to conclusions he doesnt believe by confusing use and exchange value. 2. The food has use value for the horse and but negligible exchange value since the horse consumes it. 4 Slide 7 HIPPARCHUS SOCRATES: Well then, do you think a ships captain who has rigged his ship with sails and rudders that are of no value 1 is unaware that he will suffer loss, and risks being lost himself and losing and all it carries? FRIEND: No, I dont. SOCRATES: So he doesnt expect to profit 2 from equipment that has no value. FRIEND: Not at all. __________________ 1.... sails and rudders that are of no value means here have no use value and as a result the cargo in effect has no exchange value. 2. A somewhat more complicated case than farming and horse-raising because the exchange value of the cargo depends upon the use value of the ships equipment. Before it was just a simple confusion of use value with exchange value. 5 Slide 8 HIPPARCHUS SOCRATES: Or does a general who knows that his army has arms that are of no value expect to profit, or expect its a good idea to profit from them? 1 FRIEND: Certainly not SOCRATES: Or does a flute-player who has flutes that are of no value, or a lyre-player with a lyre, or an archer with a bow, or, in short, does any other craftsman, or any other sensible man who has worthless tools, 2 or any other sort of equipment, expect to profit from them? FRIEND: Obviously not. __________________ 1. Yet a more complicated case. Here the use value of the army is dependent upon the use value of its arms. Socrates stretches the use of the term profit. Only makes sense if it is a army whose victory is easily understood as money-making. 2. In the case of flutes, lyres, bows, etc., exchange and use of flute-playing, lyre- playing, archery is dependent upon the use value of the flutes, lyre, bows, etc. 6 Slide 9 HIPPARCHUS SOCRATES: Then who do you say the greedy people are? For surely the ones just mentioned are not the ones who expect to profit from what they know has no value. But in that case, my wonderful friend, there arent any greedy people at all, according to what you say. 1 SECOND DIALECTICAL ARGUMENT FRIEND: What I mean, Socrates, is this: greedy people are those whose greed gives them an insatiable desire 2 to profit even even from things that are actually quite petty, and of little value. _________________ 1. Socrates conclusion is correct but only insofar as the friend has failed to see the dependency of exchange value, in the cases Socrates introduces, upon use value. Socrates has succeeded in showing that his friend doesnt know how to define greedy people. 2. Note how the friends definition has moved from the value of things to human desires. 7 Slide 10 HIPPARCHUS SOCRATES: Not, of course knowing that they are of no value, my very good friend; for we have just proved to ourselves in our argument that this is impossible. FRIEND: I believe so. SOCRATES: And if they dont know this, plainly theyre ignorant of it, thinking instead that the things of no value are very valuable. FRIEND: Apparently. SOCRATES: Now, of course, greedy people love to make a profit. FRIEND: Yes. SOCRATES: And by profit, you mean the opposite of loss? FRIEND: I do. SOCRATES: Is there anyone for whom it is a good thing to suffer loss? FRIEND: No one. SOCRATES: Its a bad thing? 8 Slide 11 HIPPARCHUS FRIEND: Yes. SOCRATES: So people are harmed by loss? FRIEND: Yes, harmed SOCRATES: So loss is bad? FRIEND: Yes. SOCRATES: And profit is the opposite of loss. 1 FRIEND: Yes, the opposite. SOCRATES: So, profit is good? FRIEND: Yes. SOCRATES: So it is those who love the good whom, you call greedy. FRIEND: So it seems. SOCRATES: Well, my friend, at least you dont call greedy people lunatics. 2 But you yourself, do you or dont you love whats good? _________________________ 1. Socrates has gotten the friend to confuse, loss in the sense of a monetary, or at least material loss, with losses in general. There are personal losses, losses of a loved one, losses of reputation, losses of health, whose opposite is surely not profit. 2. Socrates points to the previous argument in which the friend has been led to the view that greedy people want something that has no value. 9 Slide 12 HIPPARCHUS FRIEND: I do. SOCRATES: Is there something good that you dont love? Or something bad that you do? FRIEND: By Zeus, no! SOCRATES: So presumably you love all good things? FRIEND: Yes. SOCRATES: And you can ask me, too, if Im not the same; for I will also agree with you that I love good things. But besides you and me, dont you believe that all other people love whats good and hate whats bad? FRIEND: So it appears to me. SOCRATES: And we agreed that profit is good. 1 FRIEND: Yes. SOCRATES: And you can ask me, too, if Im not the same; for I will also agree with you that I love good things. Bu besides you and me, dont you believe that all other people love whats good and hate whats bad? FRIEND: So it appears to me. 1. Recall the truth of profit is good depends on the confusion of different kinds of losses [See previous slide]. But lets not let the irony escape that at least, to those of questionable morals, any or most profits are good. 11 Slide 13 HIPPARCHUS SOCRATES: And we agreed that profit is good? FRIEND: Yes. SOCRATES: Well, then, in this way of looking at it, everyone appears to be greedy; whereas, according to what we said earlier, no one was greedy. So which of these approaches would it be safe to rely on? FRIEND: I think, Socrates, we have to get the right conception of the greedy person. The right conception is that the greedy person is the one who is concerned with and thinks its a good idea to profit from things which virtuous people 1 would never dare to profit from. SOCRATES: But you see, my dear sweet fellow, that we have already agree that to profit is to be benefited. 1. Note how the friend now introduces virtuous people His definitions have good from material goods, to personal desires, to virtuous people. 12 Slide 14 HIPPARCHUS [Socrates proceeds to trap the friend in the previous elenchus: whereby he confutes monetary loss with all types of loss and gets the friend to agree that profit in general is good.].... SOCRATES: So you see, youre trying to deceive me, deliberately saying the opposite of what we just agreed to. 1 FRIEND: No, by Zeus, Socrates! Quite the opposite: its you whos deceiving me, 2 and turning me upside down in these argument I dont know how you do it! 1. Of course the friend is not intentionally deceiving anybody, except perhaps himself because hes not clear on what greed is. 2. Socrates is deceiving the friend and perhaps the reader who does not follow the clues out of the puzzle. But Plato will offer clues in the section that follows as to why deception on this matter is the norm and the way out of the labyrinth of social prejudices requires one overturn popular beliefs in general. In particular, Plato invites the reader to overturn popular beliefs by an absurd retelling of the origins of Athenian democracy. 10 Slide 15 The Story of the Assassination of Hipparchus by Harmodius and Aristogeiton Harmodius and Aristogeiton or Aristogeton (both died 514 BC) were two men from ancient Athens. They became known as the Tyrannicides after they killed the Peisistratid tyrant Hipparchus, and were the preeminent symbol of democracy to ancient Athenians. 1 1. downloaded on September 22, 2014 from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki Harmodius_and_Aristogeitonhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki Slide 16 Assassination of Hipparchus by Harmodius and Aristogeiton Slide 17 Roman copies of Harmodius and Aristogeiton by Critios and Nesiotes, Naples, Museo Archeologico Nazionale Slide 18 Hymn To Aristogeiton And Harmodius* by Edgar Allan Poe (1827) I Wreathed in myrtle, my sword I'll conceal Like those champions devoted and brave, When they plunged in the tyrant their steel, And to Athens deliverance gave. II Beloved heroes! your deathless souls roam In the joy breathing isles of the blest; Where the mighty of old have their home Where Achilles and Diomed rest. III In fresh myrtle my blade I'll entwine, Like Harmodius, the gallant and good, When he made at the tutelar shrine A libation of Tyranny's blood. IV Ye deliverers of Athens from shame! Ye avengers of Liberty's wrongs! Endless ages shall cherish your fame, Embalmed in their echoing songs! * Translation from probably from Athenaeus, Deipnosophistae, Book 15, Kaibel paragraph 50, lines 38-79. Slide 19 The History of the Peloponnesian War, by Thucydides, Richard Crawley translation From Sixth Book, Chapter XIX. [54] Indeed, the daring action of Aristogiton and Harmodius was undertaken in consequence of a love affair, which I shall relate at some length, to show that the Athenians are not more accurate than the rest of the world in their accounts of their own tyrants and of the facts of their own history. Pisistratus dying at an advanced age in possession of the tyranny, was succeeded by his eldest son, Hippias, and not Hipparchus, as is vulgarly believed. Harmodius was then in the flower of youthful beauty, and Aristogiton, a citizen in the middle rank of life, was his lover and possessed him. Solicited without success by Hipparchus, son of Pisistratus, Harmodius told Aristogiton, and the enraged lover, afraid that the powerful Hipparchus might take Harmodius by force, immediately formed a design, such as his condition in life permitted, for overthrowing the tyranny. In the meantime Hipparchus, after a second solicitation of Harmodius, attended with no better success, unwilling to use violence, arranged to insult him in some covert way. Slide 20 The History of the Peloponnesian War, by Thucydides, Richard Crawley translation From Sixth Book, Chapter XIX..... [56] To return to Harmodius; Hipparchus having been repulsed in his solicitations insulted him as he had resolved, by first inviting a sister of his, a young girl, to come and bear a basket in a certain procession, and then rejecting her, on the plea that she had never been invited at all owing to her unworthiness. If Harmodius was indignant at this, Aristogiton for his sake now became more exasperated than ever; and having arranged everything with those who were to join them in the enterprise, they only waited for the great feast of the Panathenaea, the sole day upon which the citizens forming part of the procession could meet together in arms without suspicion. Aristogiton and Harmodius were to begin, but were to be supported immediately by their accomplices against the bodyguard. The conspirators were not many, for better security, besides which they hoped that those not in the plot would be carried away by the example of a few daring spirits, and use the arms in their hands to recover their liberty. Slide 21 The History of the Peloponnesian War, by Thucydides, Richard Crawley translation From Sixth Book, Chapter XIX. [57] At last the festival arrived; and Hippias with his bodyguard was outside the city in the Ceramicus, arranging how the different parts of the procession were to proceed. Harmodius and Aristogiton had already their daggers and were getting ready to act, when seeing one of their accomplices talking familiarly with Hippias, who was easy of access to every one, they took fright, and concluded that they were discovered and on the point of being taken; and eager if possible to be revenged first upon the man who had wronged them and for whom they had undertaken all this risk, they rushed, as they were, within the gates, and meeting with Hipparchus by the Leocorium recklessly fell upon him at once, infuriated, Aristogiton by love, and Harmodius by insult, and smote him and slew him. Aristogiton escaped the guards at the moment, through the crowd running up, but was afterwards taken and dispatched in no merciful way: Harmodi...</p>