mo v wilson interview-witness-42
TRANSCRIPT
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August 16, 2014
Special
Agent
SA
Special Agent
SA
Federal Bureau of Investigation,St. Louis Division
Special Agent
Special Agent
Unintelligible =
UI
SA
= SA
= SA
This is Special Agent nd Special Agent
, date of
birth We re at
and this
is the interview
of
We re
with
SA
SA
SA
SA
SA
SA
...did, d id you see what took place last Saturday? That
would
have been...August
t he n in th
around noon.
Yes,
I did, I did
no t
see
th e
initiaL
1
did
no t
see
the
initial
start
of
th e
situation bu t I seen
the
closure of th e situation. Because I was on
my
porch ...
to ge t
reception on
my
phone? And, um, I heard a
gunshot..fo
..
i t, i t, it caught
my attention.
Okay.
As
it
did the attention of everybody else around h r. And when I got,
um ... to my phone, as fa r as then talking on my phone, I t ol d t he
individuaL 1told her, I call them back. Ou t of town calL 1 stood
up ...walked that direction to see what was going on and
when
I looked
to
see
what
was going on police was running
after
a young man
that
was running in
th e
direction toward that
way
...
Okay.
He shot again, shot
the
individual in
th e
back,
Mr.
Brown, I don t
know
what
part
of
th e
back he shot bu t he
turned
around,
Mr .
Brown
turned
around ...and literally pu t his arms up... in
a,
in a fashion to
where
...
my
understanding that means surrender.
So
th e
individual
is
running away and then
turned
around and
pu t
his
hands...
After
being shot
...up. Okay.
Can YOu ...so on this map here..where
where
was it ..you
would
say that
you saw hi m running towards?
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I gotta
see
this
I m, I m getting up
chuckles)
Oh, I understand. That s f ine.
sighs)
Okay so
this bend, this bend coming of f West Florissant right?
Yeah.
Exactly?
That s r ight.
So
he s running
in this direction
Okay.
trying
to
run in this dir ecti on. Well , he act uall y ran in this dir ecti on.
Okay,
so
he ran Eastbound on Canfield then?
Exactly.
Okay.
So it d
be goin this
it li
be coming-going this way.
Okay.
S as
I
see
that,
as
I
walk further
on
my
porch, I see
the
officer chasing
after the
individual and he
hi t
him pow one
time
in
the
back
and
the
individual realized he was shot
so
he turns around and immediately
put
his arms up, and
as
he s stepped closer
to the-the
officer.he s
surrendering himself, he
he
the
officer.
has
his arms up already and
he continued
to
let every round, I mean every round,
the
visual is
so
clear.
He let
every round in his chest off and
as
he
got
closer, he
le t
a
round
of f
in his head, his cheek, his head and he f inished a r ound and
stood over him.
How
how many rounds total?
I I didn t count cause I was stunned
1was in shock. I I I stopped
counting.
Okay.
It was gruesome.
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S
so the
officer continued
to
shoot at hi m, in
the
chest? Do you
know
what
the
distance was between
the
officer
I d
say
about
a good
twenty
feet.
Okay.
before
he cap before he
got
shot
in
the
sense of
the the
back
shot
Uh
huh.
he
turned
around,
it
was c1oser 1mean-I mean he was close, he was
so
close. The visual was gruesome.
Okay.
Could you
put
an x on this map. I ll give you m y pen here,
and
where where
this
took
place,
just so
we can confirm.
I can t see
this
what
number would
I be?
So
this is Canfield right here
You are chuckles)
you re we
are in building
Exactly.
this
is
labeled
as
building
Exactly, yes,
that s
a clear visual in w hi ch I had. Um, okay, cause t his
was Crenshaw
this Crenshaw building right here. This
the
leasing
office, I m believe
it
happened. I m
You re
That s right.
So your front
porch facing
that
way.
Exactly,
so
I m gonna
say that it
happened,
the
visual.
Yeah, cause you can see
it
right front
your front
porch, correct?
Exactly
and
that
that s
where he
turned
around, cause I seen when he
turned
around and immediately
put
his arms up.
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Okay.
And he started walking back, this direction,
toward the
officer and
the
officer closed in on h im , l iter al ly closed in on h im and
Ho w close was he when y ou said he closed in on h im ?
sighs)
Ten feet? Ten yards?
Less than that.
Really? Like from me to the wall, or?
He ah
he was he was he did this
Like ah,
from
here
to
here.
Yes
and I
t hi nk t hat
h e d id
n ot kn ow wh
he did
not know to
get down.
Oh okay.
He didn t know
to
get down.
He
didn t know to get down. So he
walke d up o n h im .
So he was walking to the officer with his hands up.
He
didn t
know
ta
he
didn t
know
Right, cause he s a young kid, probably really never been in trouble
Scared shot.
Yeah.
Body started feelin hot.
Uh
huh.
I know I
go t
a
bullet
in my back, I been, I been shot before, so
he
didn t know
to
get down.
So
Okay.
he did, he di d
Was walk b ut w it h his hands up and yeah.
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He did it in a fashion
to
where prob
ey
scared th e shi.
Oh yeah.
You know so
Go ahead, you can say it.
He- he- he f inish ed h im o ff . I t
doesn t
make it s no t just that
wasn t
protocol. That s no t protocol. I t wasn t
protocol at
all.
Do you remember what
Mr
Brown was wearing that day?
sighs) Wow
Can
you describe him physically?
What
I can remember
is
basically he had a red ha t on, a s hirt on, s ome
shorts, some socks
you know stripey socks, long socks and th e flip flops
in which was
left
up the street before he start running
Let me secure
t ha t d oo r
too
Okay.
sighs)
Okay, so
so
to
recap here
and correct me
if
stop
me at
any
point
if,
if
I m incorrect about ho w I understand um, your, ah account of events
here. So you were standing on your front porch here, on your phone,
correct?
You
heard a single gunshot,
is
that right?
I h ea rd a shot.
Okay. And, YOU
...
you
couldn t
see anything at
t h at t ime
No.
Is that
correct?
Exactly.
And and then, shortly
thereafter
I seen individual.
Did you walk on your porch there?
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Yes
And, I seen an individual, I seen Mr. Brown running in this
direction, you say
what
bound?, East bound? You said?
Right, so
that
would be
as
you indicated there, it looks like it would be
eastbound on Canfield.
Right, so I seen him running and I I heard another gunshot
pow
and
Mr. Brown turn around and
put
his arms up. Ya know, and I seen the
officer
pursuing him, getting up on him and Mr. Brown was walking
towards
him cause he didn t
know ah
how to get down after being
shot he didn t know no procedure you don t know.
Okay.
So the officer, I don t know just shot him. Repeatedly.
Okay.
So
when
he was-when he was walking away
When
who was walking away?
When Mr. Brown was walking
from
the officer,
or
running away, and a
shot was f ired, do you know if
that
shot struck him?
I I sighs yeah, I believe
so
cause it was s s.. .a so called, I think the
f irst shot was the shot
that went of f
in the
suv
And
that s when
you paid
attention?
Yeah.
Okay.
And
then
that second shot,
another
shot
it
was, I think
it
was three
shots prior to me, because
there
was one shot that went off in
the
SUV
from
my understanding. And
then another
shot went of f in
the
building
over there, in which
they
retrieved the bul let. And
another
shot went
off in his back and the remainder, I
don t know
what k k kinda clip he
had
1don t
know was it a sixteen round
with
extra in the c1ip
1
don t
know
what
kind
of
gun he had.
Okay.
So we, we want to focus today on what so,
1know that the media
obviously has, has
Trying to.
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reported on this
and as much as you can I
know
it s difficult.
No i t s not .
But
we
want to focus specifically on you know what you saw.
Exactly
as opposed to
Exactly exactly
as
opposed
to
what
Exactly it s all
about m y
visual.
ha t
I seen.
Right. Okay
so
as
as
he is walking
or
running or.
was
it
walking
or
running
down
Canfield?
Hah. He was running.
He was running okay.
So as
he was running
down
Canfield you
observe I assume
ah
I observe
did you actually observe
the
police officer make
the
shot
or
you just
heard
th e
shot?
The f irs t shot? I
just
heard
the
shot. The second shot I m sure
it
came
f rom t he
officer.
Okay.
No cause I seen
th e
individual
turn
around.
Okay.
And and and
the
and and and in amazement like I
know
he
didn t
shoot this individual cause he had no arms
on
him.
Okay.
And when he realized he was shot he immediately
turned
around and
walked
toward the
officer.
And
the
officer.
w hen did
the
officer come
into your
field
of
view.
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I m
c1ear
you, you, you want to stand
ou t
there and see?
Yeah. Well, yeah, let s, let s go and then come back
to
th e recorder
though to though.
shuffling, clothing sounds heard)
Okay.
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[outside now
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You good?
UI) good, tha UI) jacket, they so basically
1was right there, listening. See ho w much of a visual I have. It s clear.
Okay.
Let s say he there
that
tree right there .......he s walking back, he s
walking, he s walking back towards th e officer. and th e officer closed in
on him.
Okay.
And, as he walking closer to
the
officer,
the
officer continued to let
rounds off.
Okay.
Period.
So he s they re walking towards each other.
Yes .
at this poi nt , and th e officer is shooting at him.
Yes sir.
Okay. So again, you re standing here on your porch
Yes
You hear a shot, right?
Yes
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You see ah Mr. Brown
Yes
.
running east
down
Canfield
there
Yes .
and
then
at th t point when did
the
officer come
into
view before or
fter
you heard
th t
shot?
He
came
into
view
fter
I heard
the
shot because
Okay.
I m trying
to
figure
ou t wh y
is this individual running.
Okay.
And he turns around immediately l ike I said puts his arms up
You
and you
don t know if
he was
h it o r no t
by
th t
round right?
i..i..yeah
it
was a clear indication because he
turned
around like this.
Okay.
So
you
think
he was hi t and th t time?
Yes
I believe
th t
he was hit.
Okay.
When he was running away.
So
you
think
he was
hi t
in his back then right?
Yes
Okay. And then he
turned
around and continued.
Yes
he did.
Okay.
cause
th e
M r. Br ow n closed in on
the
officer in
th e
sense
of
surrendering himself.
Okay.
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UI) Yeah, so
I I
I seen it. I mean sighs) 1seen it
ya
know?
Okay. And
so
he, you said t hen he turned around towards the officer.
Yea .
and
they
continued to
w lk
towards each other?
Yes
Mr. Brown came in closer, not knowing to get down.
How close do you
think
he got to the officer?
Stay right there.
So th t looks like boutmaybe six seven feet to me? Okay.
The officer
got
closer, and UI)
got
closer.
Okay. Okay.
Execution style.
And
as
the officer continued to approach, he contined
wh t
did he
do?
He continued to let of f rounds.
Okay. And, do you know where
the
rounds, when he continued to
approach him, actually struck then?
Based on where I was standing at-based on where I was standing at, I
could say th t it was um, upper chest, lower abdominal, repeatedly, um,
and t hen, um a head shot.
Oh
really.
Where, where was he ah, w hen the head shot took place? Where was
the officer in proximity to Mr. Brown?
I mean, it was it was like less than the feet th t we was just apart.
Okay.
t
was a visual to where
Like an arm s l ength? Or wh t are we talking bouthere?
Hmmph, less than that.
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That was when
the
headshot happened?
Boom, boom
Where,
where
was Mr. Brown, like was Mr. Brown standing, was he
kneeling, was he on
the
ground,
where
was he when
the
headshot
took
place?
The headshot took
place
before he
ah,
got down
on
the
ground.
ause he had
took
several shots in his upper torso and his
lower
abdominal. And
the
headshots came when he, he,
less
than, he was
too-he
was close,
too
close, he was
too
close
Okay.
And
the
individual, Mr. Brown
was like don t shoot ,
after
taking
these bullets.
You heard him
say
don t shoot ?
Yes
Okay.
That was his last words.
Okay.
So
He
knel.
he fel l, he fel l
to the
ground-he fell he fell
to the
ground and he
continued
to
let
the
rounds off. And everybody seen this on a Saturday
morning, kids are all playing.
Right. So
so
he was actually on his knees
Yes
when he received
the
round to
the
head?
Before he flipped over.
When he received
the
round
to the
head or.
No, he had received
the
round to
the
head before he had
got
on
the
ground.
Okay.
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And he still had life in him. And
th e
extra rounds came after he
sighs)
sloped over. And
it was overkill.
So when he actually
what
di d he do, di d he fall forward?
He fell forward
Okay, he fell forward and then what happened?
The officer s to od o ve r h im and fin is he d him o ff .
Okay, can you, can you explain
that
ho w d id he f in is h h im of
Well, f inish him off means in a sense f inish his r ou nd s o ff . He s a lr ea dy
tooken several bullets, and to actually stand over individual and finish
a clip
off
[slaps hand]
How,
ho w
many rounds
would
you say?
I man, I I I was in awe,
I
I
I
I couldn t believe
th e
officer was
ou t of
I couldn t believe a officer was
ou t of
p ro to co l. Based on a man being
unarmed.
Okay.
So I..the numbers, in which
ho w
many rounds
went off
1couldn t tell
you. Its just what th e f
Fuck. chuckles)
I couldn t tell you, man.
Okay. So th e
officer
just, le t
me
make sure that I understand your, your,
your
description here so th e
officer
is standing over him
Yes sir.
While he s, at this point, laying on
th e
ground.
Yes
sir.
And he continued
to
fire?
Yes sir.
And he st ruck hi m in his head
Yes sir.
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Okay. Wha
what
happened after that?
Hah. Everybody came
ou t that
was seeing it. They was just in awe.
Couldn t believe that this
officer
fo r six years on th e force
Uh huh.
didn t
use protocol,
didn t
use a taser,
didn t
use if he was armed,
didn t
s ho ot h im in the leg, ya know and I everybody was just in awe.
Okay. So basically a crowd started to
Yes
Okay. Did you see anyone with
Mr.
Brown?
No, I did not. I
didn t
see l ik e I said, I
didn t
see
th e
initial start,
ya
know
...and
th e
people that you s probably know that was with
Mr.
Brown, I
didn t
I didn t
see
them.
Okay.
So
you just saw Mr. Brown
You know.
and y ou saw th e officer?
Yes
Can you give me, an obviously a police officer s is gon na be in uniform
bu t can you give me characteristics, basically a good description of th e
what the police
officer
looked like, to you?
sighs)
He
was tal l. Um, I see UI)
brunette
ah, he was tal l
brunette
ah,
ah, I I just
knew
he was in
uniform.
Okay.
I couldn t give you a visual really
of ho w
he looked.
So
he he was tall
with
brown hair, you said?
Something like that. Brunette.
Okay.
Ya
k now, I didn t I just was, couldn t, I d I m looking a t t he
uniform.
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S
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Sure.
Right.
Ya know I m
no t
Sure.
really trying to
get
a visual.
Oh I understand. Um
do you
know
like what type of build he had? If if
he was like
Slim slim build.
Slim build?
Yeah.
The officer?
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah
So
he was tall slim he s
go t
brown hair.
Something like that yeah.
Okay. And then what color are their uniform shirts?
It was blue.
h
l ike light blue or navy blue.
Navy blue.
Okay. [pause] ha tam I forgett ing
to
ask you here? Wha
what
else
is
Whatever you w an t t o
1don t know I mean
Is there anything else we need to know that we didn t ask
That s
alii
know.
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cause you
know
we
I mean, that s all I have.
cause we
go t
very general, you know, very general information
Yeah, I that s okay.
t hat s w hy w e r e talking to you guys.
Yeah, it s okay. I mean, because, I mean 1haven t been to sleep since
Saturday and I was looking
to
ge t some sleep.
Sure.
Yeah,
ya know w hat
I m sayin ?
And you
go t both
of
us
knocking on
your
door. laughs)
That s okay,
bu t
I f igured you guys
were
coming anyway.
Yeah.
So um , I have no t really 1 was
tryin to
get in contact with you guys,
you know. I kn ew you was coming. yname
is
ou t
there
already. You
know
what
I m saying and I wasn t holding my tongue concerning
what
I seen.
Yeah.
It was gonna be t old. You know? Um, I wanted to go to
th e
Marines,
you
know what
I m saying, I
wanted to
become
you
know what
I m
saying and g et a chan
Do the
right thing.
I
didn t
ge t a chance t o. You
know w hat
I m saying, and
so
you know,
and
fo r me to
see this..,.it just,
just
Especially with a kid. You
know
Yes it
tears me up.
We know
what
it s like.
Good God. Now check this out. y n 1just found
ou t
he s my
nephew s friend
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laughs)
Ohhhh
....
...
and
my
sister um, came and visual yesterday
...
she
say
he s been over
to
her house several occasions, I
say ho w
was his character, she
say
he s
ver y w el l m annered. And, and i t s like people
pu t
displays of trying to
assassinate his character, like he was a
thug ...
okay, you m ight have a
visual
or
camera of him hanging
with
some individuals where
they
probably did that
...whatever they
did at Ferguson
Market
or
whatever
had you,
bu t
his parents, his grandma
...they didn t
tolerate that crap,
so
therefore
whatever
the
media
tr y to
project his character
to
be
...
Right. Yeah.
That s right.
Yeah,
that s
th e
problem
with
UI)
th e
media.
You
know.
Yeah, cause
they
want
a story. T hey need a story.
Umm hmm.
That s ho w
they
get paid, you
know what
I m saying,
bu t if
you
wanna
...pu t
something
ou t
there,
pu t it ou t th e
right way cause Karma
gonna come back and
whether
you w an t t o accept
it or
not. You gonna
be exposed.
Right.
You
know.
Yeah. Clearly
the whole
situation
is
very sad.
t
is it s a
sad ...
1mean,
other
human being.
Sa ... it has
nothing
to
do
with
color.
You know what
I m saying?
Right.
You bleed
th e
same way, you
go t
a heart, you
go t
a brain, you
know...
you
know...
I police this
...
this over here. I m like
the ...
Mr.
boonie man
...
.. 1
pu t
my b oo nie on, I
pu t
m y boots on, and
...
I t ell you that I m
concerned
about
th e
elders over here and
th e
kids over here and there
state
of
mind.
I I
perimeter, I check everything and I by myself. I m
the
same like minded individual ya
know what
I m saying. That
we
go
ou t
here
..we
make sure everybody s okay. I
don t
get in unt il
three
o clock
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every morning and I make sure everybody s cool, you know
wh t
I m
saying. sighs) Um, just trying just keep doing th e right thing cause
wh t
they re
doing in West Florissant has nothing to do
with
this
community over here.
Right.
And
and um, wh t
they
doing in West Florissant, this where happened
at. t h t s tu ff t h t happened at Quick Trip and all
t he other
places, these
people coming
f rom t he
city and
t he nor th
count, south county and
just
expressing themselves
opportunities
Hurts you guys.
They looking fo r opportunities, opportunists, you know wh t I m saying
and we don t represent none
of
th t violence, you know w h t I m
saying?
Right.
Justwe trying to keep the order here.
Good. That s
ho w
it should be.
Exactly, ya
know
wh t I m sayin ? And I never seen peopl e come
together
and
there
is always a tragedy
gott
happen before people can
come
together
and wh t
we
trying to instill in
them
is consistency
fter
months and months
Well remember th t and keep going.
Exactly, exactly.
Any questions, any additional questions?
Ya
know, if we leave you with a card, and you can call.
I was waiting fo r it. I was w ai ti ng 1was waiting to see your guys badges
to o t hough. But
Oh, we can give you th t too.
Yeah.
It s so rainy no w we d on t w n t t o get everything all wet.
Exactly, right. oyou mind
if
I hol d it?
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S
S
S
S
S
S
S
S
[End of Tape]
So
what
I m going
to
do with card is right the office number on the back
of it.
Okay.
And, you
I m gonna lock it in m y phone, don t worry.
laughs) Yeah,
if
you ever need anything
UI) you can call
us
Right.
You can call either number, I encourage you to call
the
number of
the
office on the back, which
is
Okay.
And obviously this is a stressful situation for everyone who s involved,
so if at some point you remember something you forgot to tell us ah, if
your perception of what took place changes, anything
of
the like there,
just don t hesitate
to
reach
out to us
Okay.
there
gonna take
your
name,
they re
gonna take
your number
and
then
we re
going to call you back.
Okay. I m, I m, I m, I m
in
the
regards
of
it
changing
i t s been
consistent. It s been
the
same. Because, I mean w hen you have a
visual. actual, seeing what actually went down
It s caught.
Yeah. And, I mean, I onl y se 1onl y seen t hi s w hen I was t welve, I seen a
guy um, a mailman take the life of a guy you know, w he n I was in
grade school or whatever.
Oh
wow
Um, he got caught you know. But, a 357 and all the kids and you
playing in the school yard and he take the life of this dude cause of
jealousy, cheating, you
know got
caught and like what?
bow
He was
running everywhere. I can remember.
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