john sherman meeting ramana

8/14/2019 John Sherman Meeting Ramana

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MEEING RAMANA MAHARSHI


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SilentHeart Press

Ojai, Caliornia

Edd by C S


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Bk & Cv Dg: C SCv P: Nb

Ed: C SSecond printing: 2008 Revised edition.

SH PPO Bx 1566

O, C 93024 USAP: (805) 649-1600p://www.vgg.gp://[email protected]

Pd Ud S AcISBN 978-0-9718246-0-7


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10/79

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11/79

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12/79


13/79

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14/79


cd , I bkd up Budd pcc. T b

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z d d z. I w by w wcg p b dvcd y uddg, dy bug b L gv ug andbddvvw.

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yg !

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ud. I ud wc vd dug pd d, uc wy I kw w Budd w kg bu,I knew. I dd z w uxpcd,

2


15/79

kwg w p gd Budd cg.

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w qu d w cud dpg y cuuddg pu y d b ggd by yg w Budd. H cg, uc w, dd .

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c udg d p, c medppd. I ppd.

3

FIND YOURSELF


16/79


T wy I c pby dcb yu

xpc . I cuy cd yu v kw xpc, gp, momentarydu dy, y ppg d c c, udd, d gaboutg. Ng ppd w . W vg, I d py,

wdy, ucby, wu , v w . W y g, I k y d b u yc. I d v gd uc , uc p, uc .

I w , b I w d p,d w x u g. Fwg cd g, I w g -d--y, w I w y d p.

I y u g, vyg I dd wd w pg . T w g I wud v d d d v d . I

wud v d yg, cud kp d

v . I w v wcw v ; I d y buy xdy,gc xpc dug y d I w . S d g, wv w.

I d dwd , y , y g

reallywud p wud b wk up. Ng .T w g wd I wkup py, I b d py.

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17/79

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c d p , w v, bw wd b. O I ug. Fy, y, dc pu melodrama cpd d. I d d vy d dy w d wd.I d d vy d by . I d d g w b by. N by , bu by

y, by uy yu. I ud y uc bgg, uc cpb, uc yg yg I cud v v gd. T hellw bg, ug d y paradised b. I w dug Inallyud y RM.

I d gd R M. I ug R

w vy g, d w vy p. A , Iw Gg p. I w v. I w qu d p xp I gv v. I d g!

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c. I w , pu, c ccu pyg v Gg.

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ybdy, even R: v p dd w--I guy d y g vy g y. A p, I dd upp d yg g y. Bu I y

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18/79


zd dp d cy, d ug R

z d wg, d gv wy.

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R M w ug v Gg. Evyg, I pk yu bu, c xpc vg wd uc: v w ydd k y .

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ud do nothing. T I ud p vyg I w dg.Ad w I d R w ud k u dcv u

6


19/79

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S, w yu w I d . T cpu. W d p bk , d d d y, O, bu d uc-d-uc v . W I v yu w Gg cdd yu,

wc y w xpc. My w . Cpy.

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FIND YOURSELF


20/79


d c Gg d Pp, : vyg

yu kw bu puy worthless. Evy ccp, w ub, w gy ccu, w buu, w wdu, vy ccp wuxcp vy u, vy cpu, vy , vycg w . I , c, worse w.I dbg buc pby yu bg

d, c d , , w c u. I yu uy w u, yu u b wg dcdvyg yu thinkyu knowbu ideasadvd -duy, d bg, d xpc z. Evy xpc yu gv u b w . Ty gd yu w.Pp y w. R pk uu cg g yu yu v g: d yu , p yu. Bu d w, y u. N.

T g I y bbd R.Ad xd, cdd u cd, w bbvu yu c. Ty u w. Ty

mayu vgd, w w bd . Tyy u uc wy yu d p vw. Bu w, dy, w wy.

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8


21/79

wv had b d dy b d. I yu c

v u w I yg wu ug , vyg d b d b d. T yg quc, ccdg R, yu intention,d y xpc u.

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wy. I I pk wd , w kw dg u d cpu d xp d cg, , u, yg: whom c b. Nv, R u y g qud bu yu . T y gd xp wy pu d v bdcdd, v y u.

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g z, b d w gcd ug. T d b d w ug w gyu yu w. Nw c b w wy. T yg qud dcv cuy yudy yu. T b d g ud,d w y qu : W I really?

I upc u v g qu, dpd g dy kw; Ipretend I kw

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FIND YOURSELF


22/79


w I I w dg . I

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wdu buy uby, vy thought p w I. Evy ug I relationship w I. I pg I w I kbu g, w I d k bu g, w I u

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10


23/79

wc ccdg R, g y

d. T, R ugg w u d yug xcp ug I. R cug u, dd u, bg u, pd w u, d y I. u ug g , d d uu wd wd k, wd source ug.

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w k w kw ww kg bu. Epcy pu cc, uc, cu, c ccu. T wR y. R y uc ppc g. S g u vg g. R k u ndg, d I. Ad who p vg?Eg. I g doesvyg. I g , g, by wc uv . Ad b g u dy uc ug, u, ud, by, y wv. S ego d ego. T v R M. L g,d gug vyg u, gu u . L d w sel.

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FIND YOURSELF


24/79


yu kg: c g. S, w g k

kg , kg w u, dg y, ug d y gc xp pw u. T c g, byg, c sel-investigation.

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pc , y u vg. W kw g d x. S, wud b b wc yb? O p p, pu wp? W, yu wudcuy b b dg g. Yu wud cuy b bbuysurrendered. Bu who d ? W ud butg? Ad yu kyou v udd,

w k bu g?

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deny w dg , bcu d wud b d I d v cu w I kg bu w I y I.

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w w . Ad c R g purpose u . R ugg w qu kg wg pc d d u u dcy

12


25/79

u dy. y w u d u dy

kwg, bvuy, b ud ug,, ccuc, bdy, c. T u, d buy y xpc, vg isz yu k w yu .

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yu c d attain z u yu bg.Yu that. Yu are, c b d. Rz,g, u ub. N bcu ucb by yu, bu bcu you. Abuy yu,

just as you are gd, pcd, pud yu.Excy yu. S buy ub. Ad ccuinvestigation , ug wd v, vg yu, isz. G g y pgup; py d. Ty w dv u qucky yppd. G y pg up; py d. I cquc g. I c yu py py.

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dug dy. I d O y Gd, I cpk. Bu u bugyu , d u dischargewv pp, wv kpc w yu , by kg cv. T pup vg c d u wd,wy cqu d cc w v

dpd reassureuv w . I ky, bu u pc bgg vg. R u vg k ug ,

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FIND YOURSELF


26/79


u c d. I buy v

c d, wc uy cd g uwd, k g ug d d d d H, w yu? d u w d. T u c;d ky. Bu vg b uy bgu, b dd by g u d uc, dy u d g uwd, cp

w b dg w w b b, w supposedb dg, xp. R pk g . S, y. T wy u yu p. T g yu w qud.

In a recent meeting, I cvd p bdy

w dcbd ug xpc pd d c vy bgg p u wd. A ug xpc bg. Ad xpc dppd, b pcd by xpc d dpp. S d c xpc w kg bcu is

w g d w pu u. W, ky. T ug du pb .

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w ug, experiencec uc constantccuz u yu bg. T g d wgd xpc bd xpc. Ng wv.

14


27/79

T ccu z u yu bg

vg, wd-ud d. Bgu w g ,R p yu p, yu d yu wd wy; if, w wd bk ( w)d yu d yu dggg ud uck cp,yu dypull your attention back inward (wu

uyg, xpg, uddg dg yg at all bu

v uwd), R p , wv g , w d dppc, du, pwd d. H pk k : yu bg d w z yu bg, g . T pu w cc yu, d yu w b d.

I y d v w c ; v wy ugb. T d v (d v) bcu v wd bgg d kw w d .

I pkg g, b dvdu xc, d I ucg yu w bud yu u d. I yu. Evyg yu d pg c cuy yu w . Evyg. Ad I yu y vyg

R y c. I vg, yu w dw yu v v gd love aair. I c ddp d ub, byd pby gg yu

15

FIND YOURSELF


28/79


pvu vg. Pp d qu W

I? d b kd y c, kd g. H pgxcy w I pkg . I y k yu w g g. Bu I p yu, uk, w v yu. Yu w b b cp then.

T y c pw k wg

pc, dy u bg, yu. Ad d u gc; u wy g . Bu w yu dcv

w yu v y b kg , yu w wantk yw . Yu w v ud yu . T cv . Ad b ud c yu. A c yg, , -k b pb, b w w k wy . Lky . Oy . Lk u yu d .

I c gv yu w : c yu w dyu. Nbdy c yu, O, k , k . Youkw w yu . R pk . R pu of us caught in gp w c I--

-bdy-d ( upk d uckwdgd b y dy bdy wy), (wc u bu c, uc g, uc g wv) ky dd c w bdy. H u u d cpu c w xpc: y this,

xpcd w bdy, xpcd g d c. A y xpc I---bdy, p bdy , b, wd,

16


29/79

ug d, udy, I . Ad u

w u cc g w bdy, p b ud. (John points to the right side o his chest.)

I uc pk bu , bcu w I d bu , d b y upd. Bu ,I ud b qu uu; ug yu y . I ud

b uu c. M p d yu g yu bv b yu. Sc yu vyg wv, d y ! T

wy dg, dg, pg pcuxpc yu. M p d c d b yu, d d yu wu gd advc .I y bcu, cx w ykg d b xpc p, ideas . F w believes b d, k, u, d deny xc d, dg, d, u, ug, d u.

Yu u w yu . Mk , u dy. Fd g k d d . Ad

w yu k wy , d g.R p ) cu y c g dissolution g, wc d g disappears;

d b) yu y g , w yu ,yu w b uccu, yu w b ub .

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FIND YOURSELF


30/79


d

It eels lately that my sel-inquiry is just a constant. And itusually starts with the ego looking at the ego, looking at the places inconsciousness that have been abandoned and looking at the betrayal.What seems to happen is that there is no answer; there is a shit inwhat is looking. It starts out clearly the identity, the personality,

looking at itsel. Te deeper it looks, the more innocently, the morenot-knowingly, the more openly; and the looker just becomes pure loveand pure peace. And cannot be located anymore.

W, pd.

But it always starts with the identity looking, and then thereis a noticing. I dont even know who is noticing; and that which islooking is something that is always looking.

Y, g. R y y dcbw d , bw zd d d g d, p vw.

In the inquiry, the attention just subtly shits... I used to do a

written kind o inquiry. Te writing started out very personal and,all o a sudden, I am not even writing I anymore. I eel like Idisappear, I am everything, I am everybody, I am nobody and there is

just love and peace.

T u. I uu w wpk w w pk z, u,

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31/79

ucpub by y dcp. Yu d wd ,

d yu ?

It is still there, but it is experienced in such a completelydierent way.

Y. T u. T pp w w R

pk, bg Id d bg vdc cx, w ppw w py p d d d. I yg, d u d nirvakalpasamadhiwc , ccdg R, bc bc,d dgub dp p. R d vkp d w ky, bu yu kg sahaja samadhi, wc u ; d w yu pg.

Tree years ago, when I rst had an experience o it, it was likeI was drowning in silence. It was just huge. And now it eels normal.

I is. I cd u . I

uy u . I g p vw. B, vyg w p vw g, p, du dy. Ad g p vw g pppy wy y ypc u ug d y, cpd c d I w d I d w . T

pcy ppp pcp p vw g. T g wg w . I vy ppy w kg bu , bcu I y wud k yu g . I

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FIND YOURSELF


32/79


p vw g wg. F p vw

g, pcy ppp. I u not you. I p vw yu v dpd d ccpd. Fyourp vw, , w dc!

d

I think I am getting to understand what is meant by there isnothing to do, but I would like to run it by you. It eels that in thesel-inquiry itsel, daring to look at the most hated, the most eared,the most disowned without any intent to x it or take away the

pain... as the point o view changes, and all this love and compassionand understanding happens, its like there is nothing to do. What Iam starting to see is that it just soaks into all o what was hated andrejected. Something happens in what appears to be over there andthat you have turned your back on; and in the experiencing o that,there is this knowing that it is all the same. It is g. I dontknow i change is the right word, but it is almost like in the airy taleswhen you kiss the beast and it turns into what it really is.

I d cy appearance b. T y g I wud y bu .

Me too.

H qu: b v notb kd ?

No. Te beast hasxpcd itsel as not being soaked in it;but it couldnt possibly not be.

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Tere, then, is the key to the realization that there is nothing

to do.

Tank you. Tere had been still a misunderstanding thatit cannot be there in itsb. Tatsw . Tat is itsxp.

T u.

It does notv to be something else. Tat is where themisunderstanding was. Tat is the airy tale. Tat is the myth thatit will be transormed into something else and will live happily everater, instead o as play o consciousness. But it is o it.

Y. Ad g bd, y ugg yu d uor whom g . Yu dc ? I uggg yu d u yg bu g . T g g b d, g cgd, aseeming. N pb w . Bu w yu d belie

g, qu , F whom d b cg? Yu d d seeming cg.Ng changes. It is just the eyes that are looking at it that

see it in a dierent way.

I d p vw. I p vw.

But i I hadnt had this conversation with you, I would nothave gotten that.

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FIND YOURSELF


34/79


T yu kg gd u .

Ay g b d by z, v y d u w g. T vg ww. N w ub dw g b, dc, uwdvg. W c?

It is amazing to me, because I was still assuming thatsomething was actually changing. But the only thing that was shitingisw was seeing.

T pp pc w b cgg, bu w g . Gg pu d, wy . T Ggp. S yu d yu yg, O, I g , vyg d, d u who got it.

I have done that a million times. And now I get it! Tat justclicked. Te more the knots or the betrayer or what has been betrayed

is looked at, the more subtle or deeper or bigger... It is so interesting,and it has begun with just looking at what seems the worst, the most

painul, the most earul!

T uu wy. Yu kw, yu d yu w wy.T wy I w uc pk d

sphurana. Spu bbg vibration gy. Bu yu d yu w wy. W cud pbyv y d w yu c b ud, yu? S ,

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35/79

yu c, dc yu b

bgg wd uu u pcyppp. I d c vy. Yu kw w yu . Ry. Hw d c b k yu?

In looking there, it seems the heart is here in my chest and it is

really burning, and then at some point it does not have a location.

T g. T u. T cgg. Ad c k bug. T pu, vby c pk u, Upd, Vd. I onlyw p vw bdy. I pcy ppp k ,bcu p vw wc yu kg yu. W p vw , pby dgyu y c dpp. Ad y pp. T wpp v .

R pk dc bw gdu d

d z. H y z, dv g. I y w seekingz d udd gdu y g . I ky. Yu u bg w yu are. I d gd

wv y, O, bu I v c. I ccu. T w. N pu. W

pu y. Gg y, u. Sy w yu wc , vy, p vw I bdy. Igy, R

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FIND YOURSELF


36/79


u, d b pkg w xpc,

I---bdy d dpp; u belie dpp. I yd p vw. I yg dpp. I uddy yu dy cdg, u d-vc bc , pu d c. Bu gp.T p vw seen ug p vw w

. W p vw d dpp, d dy cg u, cpcg u: w? W you? Fd yu. T g yu d. Yu bc . Yu d yu. Gv up.

I y ppy b w yu. Fd yu.

O S.

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37/79

Sud d Ivg

R d y g, buy yg ww kw d b g bu . T g bu . A g, ug, , dg, -dg, ud,

gc, gc, cy, g wv .Accdg R, y pc kwdg yu v d qu. I g bdy dvg wd g d Eg u. I d cd c w .Ac w u c dg

Sk wd g.

W, I c:

I dd pup.O g y ppd bu Gg,

d I u g pp vybu , uc ordinaryw. Ry, p gcc, Ac w, w cc pu d d ccp. I c,

w cdb impatiencew pu d d ccp. S, c g w , I p dcd cky u bu pu xp. T y pupcc I v xpc w Budd, d I v yu Budd wd S. I w d by gdd , w w y Budd c p,

y g y k xcp wbu R M w pg S. I cudd wy w wd, vyg wud b ky.

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38/79


I v y I dd k wd . I uck

bg kd Hdu g. S, wy w cpS. S, g , I dy ud u wd,pcy g. I ug kd uk b. T gd xp u p. R u y g w d kw gother . I c g w R,

ppu vg, I v c cuy pc wd g d v cp S. I cuy pc wd w yu kg .

I v d w wd atman k Sk.Pbby y d w wd k Sk, bg dd gug , I kw, pky. Bu I kw w wd k Eg.I kw w . I kw xpc, y . Ad w w pkg . I yug S , ug y w b cd . I u bc, ug y w b cd . T w kg vg pcy dy, ud,

vydy, v-b-b you kw. S I vdby pk g c w bcu, y vw d y xpc, dcb pcy wg . I c w yu.

Gg y, I yu . S y .

Ad w I d , I k : S y I ug b, g. H , z, gcc g. W, I w w pkg

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u. Iy yu, I yu, d I am

yu: w cud I b? I I y yu, I yu,I d S w cp S. Torm pp yu ccu, ugg yu d yu isyu.

A g wv, wu y xcp, yu; dy, p, vydy, ud yu .

T y yu ky. I g cg. I g c, I kg yu allpc y w . Ad, I c , w g xcy -y-d by c w cd by . Ng wv cgd bu y. T bdy cgd, d cgd. T ccuc v cgd, d cu d .Bu I, by wc I y , v cgd . Ju k

your. N bcu yu y , bu bcu same. T yu . (John points to himsel) Ipp in yu, dpp yu. Ad yu c d bykg at . Yu c d y by kg seer , pcv , v .

Ad w dcvd there g w.

Oc u, p ccuz yu cu dy p, gcc upkb. T d byd y pby pkg bu . T wy pbby uvdb

w w pu cc d pu cx, w g A... S... d ky. I cuy ppp.T z ug. Bu z g

SURRENDER AND INVESIGAION

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buy dy. S buy, pypresent. S

buy p, gu d bu y ugdg y d w !

W yu? Ng y pc. W

yu, y? W d I pk w I u wd I? Wpk I? I ud pu bgg y I g d

g, d y cc p wc wd pp.Ayg p, d w uy dgyu. I zg ud dfcu. I yu.Just like you are. R y y w d bg z. O -vg, d -ud. S-vg yu c d; -ud udb. Iyou cud ud, yu wud v d dy.

You just conused me by saying I am yu sel and all thisisysel . It kind o makes me want to go into a trance. Up to that

point, I ollowed you and I can conrm what you were saying rommy own experience.

W yu pkg bu , w yu pkg bu? W yu g ?

Myexperience oyu, I suppose.

W d xpc pp?

In me.

T u d d , w d y pp?!

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But that is not the mystical experience o Everything is One.

A, yc xpc Evyg O! T y dc bw mysticalxpc vyg d xpc vyg you, p vw. I yu yc xpc pcy yu xpc. Wy yu p dyg b

yy. Tat yy!

T y xc. T y p. T wI g yu: yu xpc, u , is xpc . T yy wy yu y .

I guess I eel more intimate with my thoughts, eelings, my

awareness, my body, than I do with objects.

S yu ug, yu , yu g, yu bdy y bc? A y bc yu consciousness?

Yes.

T c. T yu cu xpc...

Tis is true.

S, w dc, g ? Pp xpc yu c g

p,

R pc, g by I---bdy d. T gv yu cc: yu c c d g w y ug,


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y , y bdy d ; , yu k d

w g cy pp, w pby v b object ccu. A yu wg ?

Yes. And that has been my experience, beore you startedtalking about Ramana that who I think I am is an object inmy consciousness. I cant know whatyu experience was like with

Gangaji. But when you started talking about Ramana and aboutputting the attention on the ego, on that eeling o I, this is veryblissul, very opening, it reveals something else.

T xpc yu v, y ug, y bdy,y d d u, , d ppc J S ccu,

xpc p xpc. T g cy u ug, bdy, , d k pc, ug. I xpc. Txpc, by w xpcd?

T d p v

bc ug. Ad bc d ub, c yu c . T d ug, I g , w I k I bc ccu.T cpcy d ck w w v dy ub d, b k pp change g pc. T uddb. Ad yu k g cy

g pc. T uddb, . D p .Fd uor whom pp dc . Tat yu.

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T vu R vyg yu ,

d vu c yu d kw, reminder. I ub g dd ub wy c dc w y w d, wc d , c c b bk. Cu xp . Cu bkg . I b cd, cg g.

I d wc R pp, wv g by, y pk , cvg A. Yu pkg bu b c vg qu W I? T , bc, bcu g by anandamaya-kosha or b. T bcu d y, it is ckg p. T w I pk g w dwd, dcd b bg, cquc vg. T b experience w xpc? T xpc b yu kw vg pcd by xpc cu bg cd w g

d qu w yu d dcdd, ppy, b . T, b yu xpcdpp d pcd by cu, w yu kg . I g, w yu kg . Wyu kg yu, wc v cgd, dv w cg. Yu kw . H, g b ud

cg. H, b d d b ud. S dp. T buy vichara, vg. T gcc . Evyg yu c: vy ug,


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vy g, vy b, vy cu

w pg yu g bck yu. I y yu wv dc yu attention d w bck uc. A guu ud, pug yu guu d, pug yu. Evy ug, vy cu,vy k, vy wg, vy g, everythingpg : T, .

W b. B g, bu c dg. T b yu are p. T b yu wc b d gyalikepy. I yu .I w yu w. I yu w b, xpc b, y. Ry, y. T y, y c

wdg d w bg k w w gv yu . Ad yu c d , wy Ecy cc ubc. I yu, b w yu kg .

W , ugu u v, kg, yg d W I? T w dg , bd, yg gu u w w . S y

g w R, qu bc conscious. Nw, y, ppuy ppd yu k qu b yu qu yu w b ccu, dc, udd. W I? F w b?F w cu? W I? Fd yu!

A ew minutes ago, you said that Ramana had said that theonly thing to do was to do the investigation, and that surrenderwas not doable. I guess I need to sort that out, because words like

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vigilance have always been conusing to me; but surrender is what

I have really heard...

B yu c ud, yu v ud ud.

Sometimes though, like now, looking at thought or askingmysel, Who am I?, it like surrender.

I g. T vg p ud.I vg, yu c udg ud.R y, d I g wdy, vy k,

w y w cc, vg dud, ud . Bu y bcu

y d udd w bu ud qud.

Surrender has been very hard or me, just likevgc. It isvery dicult. What does that mean? Surrender has been hard, too.But it eels like surrender, when I am asking the question.

T cg g. T end . Rpu wy: yu kw Gd, yu ud. I yu kwGd, yu v Gd. Yu c v Gd d ud, uyu knowGd. T p kw Gd sel-investigation. W vg k d yu, yu w ppy gv . Yuc p bu d . Yu c d . I, wv, yu y,

Oky, I g . I v ud. Oky, I ud: y c, y y, y b, y w, y u. I gg g . I ud.


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I ud. Who ud? Pp y ,

F uc uc. Yu g: vgd ud. I begins wg ud,

wg pp w g-d d u, c d , w u y dy. T uc ud yu cpb . Ad ug. T y ug. Dyu w ug ? T cg, I d kw w

wd I kg bu, w I y I.

I gv up.

I gg d u. T ud dd. T .

d

On the same subject, I guess I am still stuck on your saying

that it is impossible to surrender, or to take the bhakti path; becauseI know someone who seems to live in total surrender, and he has beenthrough this shit in consciousness. He says, I you can want Godswill more than your own, then you will always be content becauseeverything that happens is Gods will.

I buy g w .

So, why did you say it was impossible ...

I c pk bcu dy. I cpk yu d k yu wyyou v udd v? W p yu?

Probably the interest o the fesh, o the body. Other interests. Iwould love to emulate him ...

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Bu y p pk bu

xpc. I uu. W you d ?

I am interested in surrender.

Ad v yu uccdd?

Not yet.

Ad w uccdd?

Mysel. Me. Te I eeling.

W b ud? I pb yu, g w,

uc yu eorts ud d u -udd d d d y I?

I think it could be possible; but I still question what you aresaying, that the other path is impossible.

W, g I d . I k bck!

I dont want you to take it back. I that is what you teach, thatis what you teach.

I cuy c g. My y p p yu yu. Ad I y pb y ud, d I y w y , bcu I

c g w cud b w cud p uc c. I c d y w c pby ud.


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Yes. I hear you. I hear you.

Ad I ugg yu, d , bk p, p ud, xy ducv. I vy y.Lkd ud, vy y. W I ugg yu ud yu k c b dy y d y d yu; bcu

yu ud to, yusel. I Gd, yu. T kg yutruly kg

Gd. Ad ud g you d, v vg. W vg d yu.

And itbg you to surrender? Is that what you are saying?

I surrenderer. T goal bk p.

Well, the surrender o the surrenderer would be the goal.

T ud, ?

I guess we are agreeing then.

I k w gg. T bk p ud, vg. T y dcbw w p vg dccuy by g. T y dc.

I c dg g bk, S J C. H y g bk. I dgDark Night o the Soul, I d d w w gg.

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Bu nalz S J w

u, bu annihilation u, ud, dv d object dv. T xcy w d vg.R y y . Ty v uc.

Tank you or your clarication. I understand.

Yu vy wc.

d

It has been a week since your previous satsang and I

dcvd something that Sunday.Y, I b yu.

You told me to keep my attention inside. Te rst thing that Iound is that it is extremely dicult.

Y, . I bgg, vy dfcu.

I ound it exhausting. It even makes me physically sleepybecause I eel like I have to use all o my energy to keep my attentionthere. So it is very good to hear this rom you, because I thought therewas something wrong with me!

I d g yu w v d, bgg.T p yu , w


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dpp. Ad y p w. Bu d

g yu w v d. I g g vyg.I didnt know i I was doing it well, just the turning o my

attention to a place that physically seems to be the back o my head,the place where all thoughts come rom.

Y, .

I eel very neutral when I do that. Tere is only this clarity, andeverything is crystal clear. It is like my glasses had been dirty and allo a sudden I cleaned them. Tere is a eeling o spaciousness; it is asi my body becomes transparent. It is there, it is breathing, and it is

present. Everything is present but there is a lightness associated with

the me; its like the me is a bubble. My emotions are very neutral. Iwas expecting huge eelings o love, or huge eelings o compassion; butit is very detached, very neutral; just seeing everything with absolute clarity.

W cud yu w? I y b ug

w c. Myb . N c . T y

ccdg pdp dvdu. I y b ug xpc w c, gd g andbd. Myb .Yu b kp wd, gd ck . T cg g dp, wc dc. Ju quy. T yu u .

All o my lie, I have been searching or this and I had the

concept that it would be something really dierent, really special. Butit is so simple, so ordinary!

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Y! Tk yu. I vy ppy w p. T

y g, bcu xcy w I pkg w I k bu c w v idea w kww w kg . W kg bg, xpvcg. W, bg xpv cg cgb. Ty cd y g.

I I g yu w yu ud b dg,uc w yu ug b dg yg d yu.T cuy w w v b dg u v. W cgd w v bc ccu , d w w b d gy. I vy ppy yu. Yu cannotd wg. D yu g ? Yu c d

wg. Yu . T g . I yu buy I gg d y; yuc d wg. Ry. I yu I gg k w, d wu, yu c d wg. I pb.

d

I eel like I am in the mountains o ibet. I have never beenthere but I eel like that, just being in this rareed atmosphere herein emescal Canyon Park and in the company o you all. When wetook a break at lunchtime, I was walking around a little bit andits just incredibly beautiul here. My experience o turning back

inward to reverse the fow is, Oh God, not again. I eel like payingattention itsel is really boring. Tat is a very common experience or


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me that has happened today and all my lie. And the other is this sort

o sleepiness. urning inward, there is a short-circuit that happens.Looking atw? It sort o cancels itsel out, and I either get sleepy or I get extremely clear.

T g, bcu w uc vy cy pd. T p cd manolaya,

wc kd cg d, dubg dw, dd. I k b ug,bcu g ppg. T p d dppc cc. T , wc d, dcbd, wc cy ddp. Bu dp k w dp ud k.I allyu .

It is not disconnected.

Y, dccd. I ppc y, pby d d u w ccug?

In the second one, or both?

T . I cd , py ,permanentlywd. A cd wc g wd uwd c b ud.Py wdw, relaxed d. I

g g cy d dp d vyg pcy bvu. S, ppc y cuy

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cg g vg. I gd g. I u

b k uy. I v g dp d d u w dd pp. I w d appear? F

wc d c?Cu vg. Ad v cy

d dp, vgc Gg pk qud. I

c wd , c wg gg cug up d u g dd, g p, g cy, g dp. Yu kw, ugg d k g g. Tv u . I d yu gd. Nv, y, b uu yu. I u d qu, cu, uby, xp. Ju p. T w by p. Sppg u wd. I v db my meetings, I v uggd vy, yu dd ug, you c p . Ad, cg, uu help you ug ppdpdy pcv ug. Bu I yu w

buy pb p ug. Tug ppdw g vgd. Ad I yu vygwv isug. Evyg. S , y xpc, vg g xpc dy xpc, p bc.

d


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I have tried to nd out where thought comes rom. I dont

know where thought comes rom; I only know it doesnt come rom mebecause, i it came rom me, I would know what I am going to thinkabout in ve minutes.

Y, d u ug. I c k.

So you are saying itd come rom one o my levels?

I c k, g, wc uc ug. T wy uu y cc ug pp. I yu kg ug pp, d d wg cu d c, yu ud bck p wc pp, yu

uc ug .

Tat doesnt make sense to me. For example, all o a sudden Illsee Im thinking about om Cruise. He means nothing to me. But mymind is generating thoughts about om Cruise.

W w g w w y yd? Tis qu. Yu v u d g gg ug. T xpc dy, g cug u ug. T w I wyu d .

Okay. Its the thing which comes up with all those thoughts.

Rg, xcy. T g wc u u ug, k. I pc g. O

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bg pc Budd pcc I kw dcvy ug objects, y me. Typp ppy ubdd. Ty cy d v yg d w . B dcvy, dy up ,I y ug. Ad g cuyg d cg d g bu , wc pv, cu, b u. T cuy xpc g

kg ug. Nw, c b pcd wc ug u ug, d b d , wugd outcome uc . I u that w bg, qu dyu cu dy; bcu , u, thinker b w I . S d .Hd .

Tank you.

d

I have a question about thought. What i you have a scarythought, such as in a situation where you cant go back to the origin oit and you just have to stop the thought?

I d kw. T bc.

I have a dicult time with fying. I dont like to be trapped. Iwant to be able to get out. And I cant keep drugging mysel, because Ihave to be able to work when I get o the plane.


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T y wy p ug d

ug d, by , y dv yu ug; d, w ug bck uc. S wc c. Oc yu ppd cf, g yu c d bu ywy. Oc g v uwy, yu ppd. T gyu c d. I p gg g dw, gg g

dw. N u dcg yu , d u yg d g bu , w p yu. I , y qu u cg d yg (I ud v v g p, bu w.), ppuy ug g gc, bcu . I kw w c b. I v b gug w pc. T ,

wc , g gc. Bcu y, d wy w y. S, k w c .

Yu k w xpc . Yu k yu. Yu puyu u w g yu c d, yug w use.

d

I have been living a lie o just delight or the last ew months,utter delight. Very ordinary, but very delightul. And I see mysel goingthrough these highs and getting caught up, and always being able to

all back into that which is and which never changes. As I listened to

you, my system got kind o jarred. As I was sitting here waiting or youto begin speaking, I was asking mysel, Who am I? Who is this?, as you

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were instructing us to do. And I met such resistance, waves o no, no,

no, no, and waves o resistance, and waves o ear. I was taken aback.

Dd xpc , dd yu?

No, I didnt. And then what happened was, Oh my God, thereis no place to land. Tere is no place that is ever going to be. It isalways something.But then, I heard you say that, eventually,there comes a place where you v rom that all the time. I am notsaying it quite right; obviously I am not.

Yu yg qu g, bcu yu alreadyv . T c p w dpp. W kp vg dv, d vg

yu dy ccu.

I even had a taste o that, because I understood what Gangajimeant when she said the vigil. It is nothing like what you think itis. It is not work. Its just the pure delight o beingness in that state.

Y, v w yu. W yu d

bu v yu , wc vyg yu vwd, wy wud yu v w v? T w .Ad g cg g. Ju I v d, wy c. I c, vy p d d ud; bu c, . I c p, w ug d d

g d cu d g bu . I cwv, buy pb yu d y yu-. I buy pb yu wg y


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upg d, d, kp yu that,

w pp. T too yu.W pp, vg, k wgp c d py. A , bdguy w dp d ck, c ug u.

I vy ppy . I wy ppy

kg. I ppy p cy d pc dd; d I y ppy kg, bcuw bg kd yu, w yu kg yu vg, pu vyg . Evyg. I d kw w wd I kg bu w I yI. L d u. Evyg . S kg upg.

When I went to my rst retreat with Gangaji, I listened to her

and I said, Oh my God, I have to give up everything I ever thoughtI knew about anything. I had invested a lot o years, as most o ushave, in developing my concept o what spirituality was all about.

And I wrestled with my thoughts that night. I wanted to run away.

And it is almost like the same experience in here. In this space that Iwas in, it is like, Oh my God, I have to give up everything I thought was. And in that, I also nd reedom; because it is in theconceptualization o things, and what you think it all is, that you aretrapped.

T wy Pp pud uc -bdc d yw

.

N-bdc dyw. Ad w yu k w bvu y

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mind, w d v yu d? W pc

d? Tere is no place to stand. T c p.R kd bu ccu

p vw. Bu y, w p vw point vw. I pc d. I p. I cvcd, y w xpc, w p

dc, bu wc b wd udd gug v b w, y d cg pcu p vw. T . T . W, pc d. Oy d yu.

You are such a huge git. Tank you.

d

I have a question, which may seem trivial, but it will notgetout o my head.

I ky. I v.

We have to make decisions.

Rg w? Mk dc g w.

I was thinking about an earlier decision.

T dc cu dc d yu, c. I c u yu, I c yu dc-kg k u w qu ppy k pc,


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w yu kg yu . T y

dierence , g yu pudd yu dcd, yu w u. Ad g yu k yu bedcd, y qu w kg W I? W dcd b ud?

But I still have to make a decision.

Lk d . Dc d. uuy, dc d d cu b d. I , I , I ?Dd I v cc g? Cud I v u yu yu w d g bc?

Te second part o my question is about demons. I dont like

demons. Tey dont want me to let them out o their cage.

T d c . I yu dd kp yu cg, I wud dv yu v kbu yg d u w yu .

But they cause me trouble anyway.

T u.

I have a eeling that i I leave them in their cage, they are justgoing to get bigger.

I k ppp g. Fd yu!

d

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Attention seems to be the same as identity. Tat is just amazing!

T uu g. T, ud bpcd source .

Because i you are putting your attention anything, thenyou are actually putting your identity on it.

I yu xpc w, yudy?

Yes.

T, w bg.

I am sure there are a lot o implications to it. Where do yound corroboration with that, except or yoursel?

T y pc. Ad mayb w dcv dc w b ud uc . Bu cy c .T cg . T cg d yu. Ad ccu yu, c yu, y , y dy, sguu cg yu , dc wc c. Bu , cud b y d xpc.

R u y g yu v b vyg yur. I y b yu d


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yu otherxpc, wc y

. I u y c , ccdg w pdp, d pcu dc , pcu p . L b ck; b bck d w ug pp; b yubg . I yu bu xpc k dy, uc yu dy, d yu d yu

cy wu , yu c b wg.I can always sense that investment o attention is an investment

o identity. Not that that has taken me all the way home. But it hasbeen a nice companion on the way.

I v w yu: yu v cp uy. I dgg w yu, I gug wyu, bu I gd yu d . I nothing butyu, yu . Yu . A. Pp y w cg g. I c d yu p c y w xpc. I c yu w yu c d yu, w yu c.

Tere is something else: the mind has a heart, just likeeverything else does. Tat is the same heart as the heart o the true sel.

Y. I c, R u g dgub

. T cug u dc uquy wd g, . I bcu g dc dwy ; dgub

wc wy w cud. T z p

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Jw yc pcc, Kbb. I d c Kbb x

wc g pk absolute perect mirror. T wy w g cud, bcu k . I dgub . T g k I-ug uqu g ug, bcu xcy kyu. Ad vyg wv d , .

Te main signicance o that or me is not that the mind isseparate rom the heart, and that the mind is having to drop into theheart, but that they are actually both the same.

T uy dc. A dcu ddppg y gd w kg d wy w w ug. I y cgy, d u . Bu cy xpc w p. Rgd w w kg bu Vdc , ccp , xpc I p uc. I p . I p Gd. T xpc. I d gd cd yu d y

u, p. T u g u bu, y k . T wy u d x d cg k y d; bcuy k p vw w kgb. Ad xpc w kgb p uc, p

Gd. T, y ug yu nd uc, d , d . Ad ck dd bcu xpc y. I uy


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xpc pp w cvcd y bdy

c gy, dy gy pv uu u yu , ugg d. Bu u . W w pkg experiencey, y. Reality gbu yu. Ng. Yu uc . T cz yu.

Te signicance o that might be that the origin o the mind isthe heart also.

Y, g. T w c . T w . w I-ug c . I d, I-ug uc mind. I d d d.

So it is the same identity. And that is nice to know.

Y. I I pk yu, d I yu d yu,bvuy I pkg . Hw c yu loseyu?

Ad y, I kw xpc kwg y. S I pk yu k . W gd wud b yu

, g ? I pu? I d k . R u, pkg dc bw d u, H w yu dc bw d u: vyg seen u. S, k real.Fd yu, wc v b d v bb. Nv, cd. S, d bg,

d d yu, d , d yu.Fd wc d . Fd yu. Tk yu.

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T I N Pc Sd

W I w p, g Gg (d gg kw R, w y y ducd Gg) I w p v pg. I d b d bk bb, d py uc p p. I

w something p! I y g Ggd R, pp w d pvuy kw d wI w k, w, p, bbgd. Ty cud w d ppd w y d w I

w k d w I d b dg. I dd y dy wy by wc cvc d w y

g d w: I dd yg. A cquc , I ud y g u bu cgd, dbd. O gup w d dyg w y pcvd b y c vw g w C. T C p y,y C! I b vg dcu w gup C p bu w Gd. A p, y

w dg d d, W, w dyou kw w w Gd ? Ad I d, Lk ud yu. Hw c yu ?

I wd y g bu , dy d

g. I cuy vy w g dy. I d w Gg ugg

u w k u, W yu ? Bcu u placing bc c dc. I x, u cu

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, natural: cy d dp. T

g bu g, wv, g w-dgd wd.I puy pp d c b vy uu. F

w g pp, c b, A, I v upcd !A g, wv, d d dcpv r. A g ccu, invitation ( pp, p ccu)

d , g. N g u. Ig g gc vy w d vy pwu, d yc b xy pwu cug ug pvuy-duddg. Bu d b, y.

I v yu w I pk yu g, w z, I pk yu y wxpc. W I pk yu pvy d

wg b ckd by w pduc, I also pk yu y w xpc I d pk cy.

Ad g cd g v bcuggg bg b Pp dv u cyud. Lv wv pp d g. I d b

ppc d bud. I u g cy ud and cp pxpc w, u yu.

W pk dp. F ymeeting, I ud p u c ucd v

d c d, w d d b, pducd kd kg. W, vybdy w b w w d y , I d y

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y . Bu dp w pk pcy

ucd v d c. I d k y love. I ug v. I v w b as it is.I g wc d k v d v dv bg. I g dp cd d dgu clingingv w w u cvy. Bu dp w pk

v without condition. I v uy c w g.

How perect that it is my turn now because I wanted to talk to

you about an insight I had about insight. John, all I can say is thatyour past experience as a bomber serves you well! When you spin thosecruise missiles, all my beautiul cherished insights that I try to hold onto and put on a pedestal are blasted into thin air!

Gd. T gd u .

Just keep aiming those missiles! In our conversation, I realizedthat even in the sel-inquiry, even in wanting the truth, I keepwanting to go, Oh, now I understand it. Now Ive got it, and I tryto hold on to that. And every time I speak to you, you just blast thataway. And I realize that I thought there was somecuyin that.

Y, cu. T w cg , bcuw k cuy .

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What you just said was the insight that I had in the moment,

when you were just present and that insight was there cutting through;its like a lightning bolt rom God. It is just Grace in the moment, andwhat is being perceived in the moment. But what is being perceived is

just...

... u w bg pcvd.

It does not mean anything in the next moment.

T g.

I have been stubbornly, arrogantly holding on, wanting toknow something, wanting to be the one who understands, who knows

something...W, p !

I have to tell you the appreciation that I eel or you...Sometimes when it rst happens, I eel really shut down. But then,ater I get a ew breaths, I go, Tank God you keep aiming those

missiles. Tank you so much.

Yu vy wc. T gd u . Twgu g gd u ! Fd yu. T yk yu v. Hw d c b?

d

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When you were in Irvine, I heard you speak about sel-

investigation or the rst time, and it was truly remarkable. It hasbeen a remarkable two weeks or me. One thing that really struck mewas that I was driving my car and I had the thought, W wantsto turn on the radio? But the next thought was, W is aware oasking these questions?

T x p. W kg qu?R u, d y xpc, vgp d. T y g . I c d w Gg, wc w cd pb p d. Ad Gg w bck dd, I buy pb p d, bu u ppd d. Sy, buy pb dy

g, bu u bc g. T vgw p d. I w u bk, y. I w u cy d dp, d g; bc p ywy w. T thoughts p y wy w. Bu mind, uy, dd.

R u vg isz. I d g, I w y g, I w pbby y 15 b I d: vg g. T vg isw yu v wy wd. Ad vy cd p w d wd-ud w uc cd pccuy zd. I pd , gduy p

w d gg uwd d. Ad pw d ppd d ppy bc p. Bu vy

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cd p w d uc cd p

ccu z u yu bg. T vg z. I z. Ad wp d.

d

Tese last two weeks have been incredible or me. I cannot sayenough to thank you or these teachings. Tey have changed my lie. Itis very easy or me to catch mysel and turn my attention inward whenI am having a gv thought or a judgment thought or somethingthat is uncomortable. It is harder when those thoughts arepvand happy.

Y, pcy wy d ug g Gc. Bcu uc d ug u yu wd. Bu wvyg g gd, k, W, I k ! W, g wg w kg . I u d y;bcu yu k uc w dpp. W uy

on p, bcu uy p, c z w v g g Gc, bcu ppuy dpy u x , dpy b wg d whom w.

Ad, , yu w yg . Yuu y .

Gg d g d g: vg pc. Wpc c, vg pc d . W kw w gd u c, d vy g. S uddb

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d qu ub c y, W, I gg

y . I w u b w w ; dwhen bd u c, I u g bck y c. Fd u yuw yg by ug d w.

d

For years, I was a recovering Christian Fundamentalist, so Iunderstand it; but that distinction must be made, because I believeChrist was a great teacher.

C d, T kgd v w yu.

Exactly. And it took Robert Adams, a teacher who you mayknow o, to teach me what the Bible meant, when it said that Godcauses the rain to all on the justd the unjust.

Y, g.

Tat is unconditional love. Tat is dispassion.

T g. T xcy g!

So there is great value in the Christian teachings. But theundamentalism is hard...

I C u-y-d. I w vg w y

gd, w w Pc C (wc bu ud yu c g) d ug d ug

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d

I just wanted to report whats happening with me in satsangand in this retreat. Tis process is so intimate, I eel like I am being

parented. I eel like a toddler. It is like when you said that there isno place to d, I mean literally. I love the concepts, and the wordscome in; but they are aecting or reaching a dierent part o me. Idontc i I get them or not. But then, I go home and I hear yourvoice in my head, and Gangajis and Ramanas, and I look in thoseeyes and there is something way beyond words that happens here...

Y, w pp , wd y bd p.

I sort o wanted more silence, but the words are beautiul, too.It is very nourishing, whatever it is that happens...

W c w pkg ppg?

Sometimes I am in the middle o it. I mean, is always there.

Again, it is shiting ocus. Joining in the laughter, and listening toreports, going home again...

T k u dc. T dcg wd dc bw g ug d listening g d dp, dp silence y bg pd . T wd wu c.T wd pp , bcu w w for. I ampkg wd. Bu g much

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dp, d uc , kg pc b words,

w wd.

I know the words are important, because they carry methrough...

Y, p c dub.

Well, they carry me through those times when I have been sodown on mysel. I can come home to mysel without wrestling so muchnow, when I am away rom work. But when I am at work, there areso many people pulling at me with, I need this, I need that... It is

just so much human neediness, and I am the one with the sign on mychest that says, Support Services.

Ad w ucky y .

I look in their eyes and I know that what they are asking oris not what they need. I guess the struggle is that I would like to justcarry that into my workday so much more, and I know it is not goingto happen overnight.

I yu kp yu wd, w b w. Tu pu p d pp yu, w b buy ppp; d w b xcy w dd. Ad yu cd-gug yu, dkg bck d udgg, O, I ud v d thatwy,

yu w b b d yu wd uc b.When I just let it happen...

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pointed toward the source o the investigator, and there was just this

attributeless, innite stillness: I dont even dare add clarity. Tese arejust empty words now.

I yu sel. Kp yu , on yu.

I dont know who is to keep the attention there.

W, u, . Bu d yu gd d idea. Dp c , ukp yu yu. U yuorget. Ad yukp yu yu .

Mind abiding nowhere.

Y, u w yu g p, d dy , yu now. T cp. No escape. Ncuy. N pc d. N c pb.

What grace!

T d. Yu are d. Yu kw cuy uc yu, Yu . Yu d wc g wv c d g, dc d py.Allug, all, bg. Yu d. B . A yu cud b yg ! Be that.

Tank you, dear one.Yu vy wc.

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W bu this? T k k . Bu u ,

yu g wy w yg, w k yu . T dc d g wy w dg yu. Bu yu pu yu w yg, yu d. T ud. T pug yu w . I d w . Bu dc d pu yu w dg yu, wc w yu v b yg

d yu ywy. I y ppy p,I y . Ad yu g wy w , w k yu. I yu g wy w , w k yu yu.

D b dcd. Sk y yu. Bd .Tk yu .

O S.

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Mg d v w J S gzd

by Rv Gg Fud, 501(c)(3) pubc -p

gz cd O, C, Ud S.

A g d v w J S wy

cg. Ou wk y uppd by d. I yu

bk b uu yu d yu wud k

p u k J g vb wd, p

cd kg x-dducb d. N u

. F d k d ug u

cu v, p cck g u wb:

p://www.vgg.g/Supp/

I gup pp w yu v w dpy

cd w J, d yu wud k v

pk yu , p cc u:

Rv Gg FudPO Bx 1566O, C [email protected] / www.vgg.g

john sherman meeting ramana

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