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  • - 1 -

    John Jones, Talsarn & Thomas Chalmers Alan C. Clifford

    JOHN JONES, TALSARN AND

    DR THOMAS CHALMERS

    A Welsh-Scottish Gospel Connection

    Dr Alan C. Clifford

    John Jones, Talsarn Dr Thomas Chalmers

    On 3 March 1899, the Welsh-language paper Y Negesydd published a

    fascinating item about the great Methodist preacher John Jones,

    Talsarn (1796-1857). With a charming anecdote, Dr D. Rees, Bronant

    reminded readers that the seraphic preacher was still fondly

    remembered forty years after his death:

    A brief word about the story of John Jones, Talsarn when he was

    showing the preaching unction that was within him. It is said that

    when a boy he would go to something like a pulpit, read a chapter, give

    out a hymn to sing, take a text, preach and thank at the end for the

    help he had received. Once when he was standing on a river bank

  • - 2 -

    John Jones, Talsarn & Thomas Chalmers Alan C. Clifford

    where there were lots of geese cackling he began preaching to them

    and in the height of his preaching said to the geese compose yourselves

    a little and I will release you soon. However much skill is shown by the

    crosses of Rome there is no need for Wales to hide its head. The King

    of Zion has able soldiers in Wales. There could be the wrath of an

    Eliab inflaming and inflicting a boy from Wales disdainfully and asking,

    with whom did you leave some sheep, and another leaving the quarry,

    and another the hammer. Amongst such as these the Lord raised up

    giants for the pulpit in Wales. Someone sent part of John Jones,

    Talsarns sermon to Dr. Chalmers and the doctor drowned in

    amazement about his great mind. We could write much about (him,

    and about his other brothers shining comets in the firmament of the

    church). Do not be cast down. The Master and the equipment are

    working with us. The Lord has an excellent band these days.1

    While we note with great interest that Dr D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones was

    born later that year (20 December 1899), we also note an intriguing

    indication that the eminent Scottish Free Church leader Dr Thomas

    Chalmers (1780-1847) had been deeply impressed by the preaching of

    John Jones, Talsarn. The identity of both the sender and the

    1 I am grateful to Dr Lynda Newcombe for her translation of the original: Y PARCH. JOHN JONES, TALSARN. GAN DR. D. REES, BRONANT Gair yn fyi o hanes John Jones, Talsarn, pan oedd yn dangos yr elien bregethu oedd ynddo. Dywedir pan yn fachgen ei fod yn arfer myned i ben rhywbeth fel pwipud, yn darllen penod, rhoddi emyn i ganu, cymeryd testyn, pregethu, a diolch ar y diwedd am y cymorth gafodd. Tra yn sefyll un tro ar Ian afon lie yr oedd awer o wyddau yn clegar, dechreuodd bregethu iddynt, ac yn mhoethder ei bregeth, meddai wrth y gwyddau, Ymlon- yddwch am chydig, a mi a'ch gollyngaf ymaith yn fuan.' Pa faint bynag o fedrusrwydd ddangoswyd gan groesau Rhufain, nid oes raid i Gymru guddio ei phen mae gan Frenin Seion iilwyr medrus drosto yn Nghymru. Gall fod digofaint arribell Eliab yn enyn ac yn peri iddo edrych ar ami fachgen o Gymro yn ddiystyrllyd a gofyn, Gyda phwy y gadewaist ti yr ychydig ddefaid,' un arall yn gadael y chwarel, y llall yr engan a'r morthwyl, arall y myniawyd, &c. O fysg rhai fel hyn y cododd yr Arglwydd gewri pwlpud Cymru. Anfonodd rhywun ran o bregeth John Jones, Talsarn, i Dr. Chalmers; ac yr oedd y Dr wedi boddi mewn syndod uwchben eliediadau ei feddwl mawr. Gallasem ysgrifenu llawer (am dano, ac am frodyr eraill fuont gomedau disglaer yn ffurfafen yr eglwys). Na ddigalonwn, mae y Meistr a'r offer gweithio gyda ninau. Mae gan yr Arglwydd fintai ar- dderchog ar y maes y dyddiau hyn.

  • - 3 -

    John Jones, Talsarn & Thomas Chalmers Alan C. Clifford

    presumably-translated sermon extract2 sent to Dr Chalmers is

    uncertain. However, a significant theological and spiritual affinity may

    be demonstrated between the two men. This affinity was shared and

    reflected in the life and ministry of the eminent Dr Owen Thomas of

    Liverpool (1812-91), whose epoch-making biography of John Jones,

    Talsarn was published in 1874.3

    I have in my possession Dr Owen Thomass personal copy of Dr

    Chalmerss Institutes of Theology (1849). It was presented in December

    1891 to the Theological College at Bala by William Thomas of Bootle,

    Liverpool. It is worth noting that Thomas had studied under Chalmers

    in Edinburgh. One wonders if he might have sent the unknown

    sermon extract to Dr Chalmers? Judging by an extant letter from the

    latter to the former, John Aaron points out that the two men enjoyed a

    warm and close relationship:

    I rejoice in the spirit of your denomination; and there are few things

    which would delight me more than a union between the Calvinistic

    Methodists of Wales, and the Presbyterians of Scotland, England and

    Ireland.4

    Now, in the extended Chapter XI of his biography of John Jones,

    Talsarn, Owen Thomas provided a historical theological survey of the

    atonement controversy which had brought widespread soul-deadening

    distress to Christians in early 19th-century Wales. Such over-

    reactionary hypercalvinism had been provoked by the advent of

    2 Currently being researched. 3 Owen Thomas, Cofiant Y Parchedig John Jones, Talsarn (Wrexham: Hughes and Son, 1874). 4 See Owen Thomas, Owen, tr. John Aaron, The Atonement Controversy in Welsh

    Theological Literature and debate, 1707-1841 (Edinburgh: The Banner of Truth Trust, 2002), p. xii.

  • - 4 -

    John Jones, Talsarn & Thomas Chalmers Alan C. Clifford

    Arminianism in North-eastern Wales. Looking at the broad theological

    scene (and just before giving a favourable account of Mose Amyrauts

    contribution in France) the author outlined developments in

    Scotland.5 Surprisingly however, he did not quote Thomas Chalmers.

    Yet under his nose - in Chalmerss Institutes - was a statement which

    supports John Jones, Owen Thomas and other brethren in Wales who

    sought to express a more biblical and compassionate authentic

    Calvinism. The Scottish colossus stated:

    I cannot but think that the doctrine of Particular Redemption has been

    expounded by many of its defenders in such a way as to give an

    unfortunate aspect to the Christian dispensation. As often treated, we

    hold it to be a most unpractical and useless theory, and not easy to be

    vindicated, without the infliction of an unnatural violence on many

    passages of Scripture...Its ministers are made to feel the chilling

    influence of a limitation upon their warrant. If Christ died only for the

    elect, and not for all, they are puzzled to understand how they should

    proceed with the calls and invitations of the gospel. ... Now for the

    specific end of conversion, the available scripture is not that Christ laid

    down His life for the sheep, but that Christ is set forth a propitiation for

    the sins of the world. It is not because I know myself to be one of the

    sheep, or one of the elect, but because I know myself to be one of the

    world, that I take to myself the calls and promises of the New

    Testament.6

    Doubtless, young Owen Thomas heard statements like this from

    Chalmerss own lips. This one undoubtedly justifies his assessment

    and verdict on the entire controversy. Interestingly, the Scottish Free

    Church leader was never seemingly-challenged for exceeding the

    soteriological limits of the Westminster Confession of Faith! He was

    5 Ibid. 134ff. 6 Thomas Chalmers, Institutes of Theology (Edinburgh: Sutherland and Knox, 1849), ii. 403-6.

  • - 5 -

    John Jones, Talsarn & Thomas Chalmers Alan C. Clifford

    probably as uncomfortable with some statements of the WCF7 as John

    Jones arguably was with Chapter 18 of the 1823 Welsh Calvinistic

    Cyffes Ffydd.8 Neither of them questioned the sovereignty of God in

    salvation, but they felt that an unhealthy fatalistic preoccupation

    with predestination undercut human responsibility and the free offer

    of the Gospel. Thomas Chalmers, John Jones and Owen Thomas

    clearly believed that Christian evangelism would be more biblical and

    healthy if it avoided the distortions of both Arminianism and Owenite

    High Calvinism (the precursor of hypercalvinism proper). In addition,

    was Owen Thomas ever aware that, shortly before his death, Chalmers

    expressed considerable sympathy with the views of Richard Baxter

    whose undeniably-important stance he also omitted in his survey?

    Yes, Baxter holds that Christ died for all men; but I cannot say that I

    am quite at one with what some of our friends have written on the

    subject of the atonement. I do not, for example, entirely agree with

    what Mr. Haldane says on the subject. I think that the word world, as

    applied in Scripture to the sacrifice of Christ, has been unnecessarily

    restricted; the common way of explaining it is, that it simply includes

    Gentiles as well as Jews. I do not like that explanation; and I think that

    there is one text that puts that interpretation entirely aside. The text to

    which I allude is, that God commandeth all men, everywhere, to repent

    [Acts 17:30b]. Here the Doctor spoke of the connexion between the

    election of God, the sacrifice of Christ, and the freeness of the offer of

    the Gospel. He spoke with great eloquence, and I felt that he was in the

    pulpit, as some of his finest bursts rolled from his lips. In the offer of

    the Gospel, said he, we must make no limitations whatever. I

    compare the world to a multitude of iron filings in a vessel, and the

    7 See Gervase Charmley, Thomas Chalmers: Scottish Amyraldian? at http://www.nrchurch.co.uk/pdf/Thomas%20Chalmers%20-%20Scottish%20Amyraldian.pdf 8 See Alan C. Clifford, John Jones Talsarn - Pregethwr y Bobl/Preacher of the People (Norwich: Charenton Reformed Publishing, 2013), 30, 83, 237-8.

  • - 6 -

    John Jones, Talsarn & Thomas Chalmers Alan C. Clifford

    Gospel to a magnet. The minister of the Gospel must bring the magnet

    into contact with them all: the secret agency of God is to produce the

    attraction. 9

    Baxters name nowhere appears in the index of Cofiant John Jones,

    Talsarn.10 A possible reason for this is that the puritan preacher was

    ignorantly dismissed as an Arminian by William Williams,

    Pantycelyn.11 Hence he wouldnt have been regarded as a sympathetic

    supporting authority. Whether or not they ever read his works, John

    Jones and Owen Thomas were one with the seraphic 17th-century

    English Puritan Richard Baxter, as Thomas Chalmers evidently was.

    As I have demonstrated in my recent review of Crossways From

    Heaven He came and Sought Her,12 the simple fact is that these

    preachers saw the need to moderate not Calvins teaching but the

    ultra-Calvinism of the day in order to return to a Bible-based

    Authentic Calvinism. One may say that - with the approval of

    Thomas Chalmers - the Welshmen sought to rescue their

    denomination from Owenistic Methodism and to be true to correctly-

    defined Calvinistic Methodism. In this respect, contrary to the

    standpoint of both translator and publisher, the author - despite

    ignoring Chalmers and Baxter - produced a persuasive, praise-worthy

    and illuminating study in historical theology in Cofiant Y Parchedig

    9 W. Hanna, Memoirs of Thomas Chalmers (Edinburgh: Thomas Constable, 1854), ii. 773. 10 However, several of Baxters works were translated into Welsh, including the

    famous Call to the Unconverted; see Eifion Evans, Richard Baxters Influence in

    Wales in The National Library of Wales Journal, XXXIII. 2, Winter 2003, 149ff. 11 Ibid. 150. This might well explain why Owen Thomas did not present Baxters views in his historical survey. His whole case would have been reinforced had he known Baxters agreement with Amyraut whom he did cite. Of a kind Dr Thomas

    would have approved, Baxters views on the atonement are clearly evident in the Call

    to the Unconverted. 12http://www.nrchurch.co.uk/pdf/Crossway%20Book%20Review.pdf

  • - 7 -

    John Jones, Talsarn & Thomas Chalmers Alan C. Clifford

    John Jones, Talsarn.

    Whatever proves to be the actual sermon extract that so impressed

    Thomas Chalmers, the following passage from John Joness famous

    Bala Association sermon of 1835 fully accords with the perspective of

    the preachers Scottish contemporary, drowned in amazement at the

    sacred oratory of his Welsh brother:

    If the Government of England were to send an order to the British

    Admiral to bring the Fleet home from the Mediterranean Sea, you

    would not suppose that the Government intended that the Admiral and

    his men should carry the ships home? Nothing of the kind. We all know

    full well that the meaning of the order would simply be that the

    Admiral should make the proper preparations; that they should employ

    the proper means in order to bring the ships homeweigh the anchors,

    turn their prows towards the deep, that they should put them in the

    way of the great forces of nature: spread the sails, and steer the vessels

    home; let the winds play upon them, and the waves and the tides carry

    them. Meanwhile, the men on deck might take it easy; they could enjoy

    themselves, and sing their native songs, while the mighty elements co-

    operated to bring them home.

    In the same manner, God in the Gospel calls upon you to repent, to

    believe, and to lead a pious and godly life. But He does not mean that

    you should do all this of your own individual resources. No; He intends

    that you should put yourselves as you are under the operation of the

    mighty forces of the Gospel; that you should faithfully employ the

    means which He has commanded. Turn the prow of thy little vessel to

    the deep; let it sail upon the wide ocean of Christs Atonement; spread

    the sails, and steer it on by the guidance of the Word of God. The winds

    will blow, the mighty forces of redemption will play upon thy vessel; the

    tides will carry it, and thou shalt find thy little bark one day in the

    haven of eternal rest.

    You have, my friends, something yourselves to do, and it is of no use at

  • - 8 -

    John Jones, Talsarn & Thomas Chalmers Alan C. Clifford

    all to expect the operations of the Spirit of God, while we ourselves

    neglect our duty. But what can I do? Canst thou not read? Open thy

    Bible; look at it, read it bring thy mind into contact with the great

    saving forces, and wait for help from above. But I cannot pray. Canst

    thou not try? Canst thou not bend thy knee, and put it down on the

    ground? But I must pray from the heart, and this I cannot do. Wouldst

    thou give Him thy heart? Give Him thy body, give Him thy tongue; and

    if thou canst not say a word, there is One up there who can open His

    lips to intercede for thee. Try fairly; do your best for your own

    salvation. Do not, at least, rush headlong into perdition. I, indeed, have

    made up my mind long ago that I shall not go there so. If I must go to

    hell at all, I shall not go there straight along. No; I shall loiter a good

    deal about the Garden of Gethsemane; I shall go many a round about

    the hill of Calvary; I shall bend my knees daily at the throne of grace. I

    shall be good enough for hell, if I have to go there, after all these

    efforts. But, blessed be the name of God, we have every reason to

    believe that this is the high road to heaven, and that no one ever went

    to hell in that way, and that no one ever will.13

    May we all be likewise drowned in amazement at the glorious Gospel

    of our Lord Jesus Christ, the only Saviour of the world and ever-

    merciful Redeemer of all who flee to Him for salvation. Amen!

    13 Cited from Owen Jones, Some of the Great Preachers of Wales (London: Passmore & Alabaster, 1885), 487-9.