jaargang xii maand 12 - sagenealogie · 1g re: re voorouers van jacques de savoye by "jan van...

SA-GENEALOGIE Poslys

Argiewe 2015

Jaargang XII Maand 12

Desember 2015

Saamgestel deur: Elorina du Plessis

KWYTSKELDING

Hierdie argief is nie ’n amptelike, wetlike dokument nie, maar

’n samestelling van die e-posse van verskillende lede van die

SA Genealogie Gesprekslys soos dit gedurende die tydperk

ingestuur was.

Die lyseienaars en hulle bestuurspan aanvaar dus geen

aanspreeklikheid vir die korrektheid van gegewens, sienings

oor bepaalde gebeure, interpretasie en samestelling van

familieverwantskappe, of vir enige aksies of verlies wat daaruit

mag voortspruit nie, en stel voor dat persone wat hierdie bron

gebruik, self eers die gegewens kontroleer.

Desember 2015 Bundels

(Wintermaand)

Onderwerp: [SA-Gen] Bundel Nommer 7332

Datum: Tue Dec 1, 2015

Daar is 15 boodskappe in hierdie uitgawe

Onderwerpe in hierdie bundel:

1a Re Voorouers van Jacques de Savoye by "Jaco Strauss" jacostrauss

1b Re: Re Voorouers van Jacques de Savoye by "Rassie"

1c Re: Re Voorouers van Jacques de Savoye by "Elmien Wood"

1d Re: Re Voorouers van Jacques de Savoye by "Heinrich Mielmann"

1e Re: Re Voorouers van Jacques de Savoye by "Rassie"

1f Re: Re Voorouers van Jacques de Savoye by "Rassie"

1g Re: Re Voorouers van Jacques de Savoye by "Jan Van Jaarsveld" vanjaarsveld_jan

2 Senekal-navorsers? by "Anrie Hoogendoorn"

3.1 File - netiket.txt by

4 [PRESS] Die Burger Oos-Kaap 01 Desember 2015 by "Hester Marx"

5a "500 Internal Server Error" by NAAIRS by "Wietz Beukes" wietz.beukes

5b Re: "500 Internal Server Error" by NAAIRS by "Anrie Hoogendoorn"

6a Voorouers van Jacques de Savoye by "Heinrich Mielmann"

6b Re: Voorouers van Jacques de Savoye by "Rassie"

7 [Press] The Mercury /Daily News Tuesday 1 Dec 2015 by "Aletta Magrieta Quebbemann" alettaqea9fac

Messages

1a Re Voorouers van Jacques de Savoye

Tue Dec 1, 2015 2:25 am (PST) . Posted by:

"Jaco Strauss" jacostrauss

Middag Johan

Ja die HANEKOM stamvader was nie so vermetel nie en so ook nie my ma se

GREIFFENSTEIN Stamvader nie. Daar was destyds wel 'n adelike VON

GREIFFENSTEIN familie ook. Maar 'n voorvoegsel op sigself dien steeds nie

'n bewys van adelike herkom nie. In Frans is daar adelike families wat ook

die "Du" gebruik (Du Guesclin), maar dit maak steeds nie die Du Preez

familie adelik nie. Soos hulle dit in Wikipedia stel:

"Never in French history was this particle proof of nobility."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobiliary_particle

Hier is ook 'n aanhaling uit 'n 19de eeuse boek wat die kwessie aanspreek

Philip Gilbert Hamerton‟s book French and English: A Comparison (1889):

“After careful observation I have arrived at the conclusion that the French

de before a name, whether rightly or fraudulently borne (for that makes

little perceptible difference), is equivalent to about ten thousand pounds

in the [London] marriage market and will often count for more. It is

wonderful that it should be so, considering that all French people know how

frequently the de is assumed; but it seems to be valued as a mark that the

bearer belongs to the gentry, which, in fact, he generally does. The

genuine nobility who have become too poor to keep a place in genteel

society, and have to work for their living, seldom retain the particule, or

retain it only for a short time. If they did not drop it themselves the

world would drop it for them.”

http://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2010/07/nobiliary-particle.html

So ja, daar is 'n moontlikheid van 'n skakel, maar ongelukkig steeds geen

bewys nie.

Jaco

2b Re: Re Voorouers van Jacques de Savoye

Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:41 am (PST) . Posted by: "Johann Hanekom" johann.hanekom

Hallo Jaco

Michiel DE SAVOYE is heel tereg dalk bloot wensdenkery, maar my stamvader

was „n maplotter uit die Graafskap van Hoya in die noordweste van

Duitsland, en my familienaam is nie VON HOYA nie – Jürgen HANEKOM sou nooit

in die 17e eeu so „n vermetele kleim kon waag nie.

Jaques en Marguerite DE SAVOY sou ewemin in die 17e eeu in Savoya of

Frankryk „n adelike herkoms kon kaap het waarop hulle nie geregtig was nie

- ons het bloot nognie die koppeling ontdek nie.

Johann Hanekom

Lancaster UK

http://www.hanekom.org.uk/gedview/individual.php?pid=I1967 <



"Rassie"

Beste Lyslede,

Oor die jare heen was daar baie staaltjies en verhaaltjies in feitlik elke

familie oor die adelike herkoms van voorouers.

Baie van die familiegeskiedenisse wat soms op skrif gestel is begin met die

stelling dat hierdie of daardie voorouer van adelike afkoms was.

En so sou mens natuurlik verkeerdelik kon aflei dat omtrent elke Afrikaner

voorouer van adelike afkoms was.

De Savoy is seker geen uitsondering nie.

Die meeste van bogenoemde aannames was nie werklike ernstige pogings om

enigiets met feite te staaf nie.

Intussen het ons stokpertjie mondig geword en vind mens deesdae werklik

uitstekende feitgebaseerde familiegeskiedenisse. En hoe meer hiervan

deesdae die lig sien hoe minder vind mens die aanspraak op adelike herkoms

– moontlik omdat die beskikbare harde feite geen adelike herkoms kan

aantoon nie.

Toe die De Savoy gesprek op die Lys gevoer word het die volgende vraag by my opgekom:

Hoeveel van die familiename wat in De Villiers en Pama opgeneem is kon met

bewese feite na adelike afkoms teruggevoer word.

Persoonlik weet ek nie van een nie. Sal egter bly wees as Lede my kan

reghelp en sodanige familienaam of familiename kan uitwys.

Groete,

Rassie

2015-12-01 12:25 GMT+02:00 Jaco Strauss [email protected]

[SAGenealogie] <[email protected]>:

> Middag Johan

>

> Ja die HANEKOM stamvader was nie so vermetel nie en so ook nie my ma se

> GREIFFENSTEIN Stamvader nie. Daar was destyds wel 'n adelike VON

> GREIFFENSTEIN familie ook. Maar 'n voorvoegsel op sigself dien steeds nie

> 'n bewys van adelike herkom nie. In Frans is daar adelike families wat ook

> die "Du" gebruik (Du Guesclin), maar dit maak steeds nie die Du Preez

> familie adelik nie. Soos hulle dit in Wikipedia stel:

>

> "Never in French history was this particle proof of nobility."

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobiliary_particle

>

> Hier is ook 'n aanhaling uit 'n 19de eeuse boek wat die kwessie aanspreek

> Philip Gilbert Hamerton‟s book French and English: A Comparison (1889):

>

> “After careful observation I have arrived at the conclusion that the

> French de before a name, whether rightly or fraudulently borne (for that

> makes little perceptible difference), is equivalent to about ten thousand

> pounds in the [London] marriage market and will often count for more. It is

> wonderful that it should be so, considering that all French people know how

> frequently the de is assumed; but it seems to be valued as a mark that the

> bearer belongs to the gentry, which, in fact, he generally does. The

> genuine nobility who have become too poor to keep a place in genteel

> society, and have to work for their living, seldom retain the particule, or

> retain it only for a short time. If they did not drop it themselves the

> world would drop it for them.”

>

> http://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2010/07/nobiliary-particle.html

>

> So ja, daar is 'n moontlikheid van 'n skakel, maar ongelukkig steeds geen

> bewys nie.

>

> Jaco

> 2b Re: Re Voorouers van Jacques de Savoye

> Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:41 am (PST) . Posted by: "Johann Hanekom" johann.hanekom

> Hallo Jaco

>

> Michiel DE SAVOYE is heel tereg dalk bloot wensdenkery, maar my stamvader

> was „n maplotter uit die Graafskap van Hoya in die noordweste van

> Duitsland, en my familienaam is nie VON HOYA nie – Jürgen HANEKOM sou nooit

> in die 17e eeu so „n vermetele kleim kon waag nie.

> Jaques en Marguerite DE SAVOY sou ewemin in die 17e eeu in Savoya of

> Frankryk „n adelike herkoms kon kaap het waarop hulle nie geregtig was nie

> - ons het bloot nognie die koppeling ontdek nie.

>

> Johann Hanekom

>

> Lancaster UK

>

> http://www.hanekom.org.uk/gedview/individual.php?pid=I1967 <

1c Re: Re Voorouers van Jacques de Savoye


"Elmien Wood"

Beste Rassie

Ek stem heeltemal saam met jou. Ek wonder egter of die storie van adellike herkoms in baie

geslagsregisters gepubliseer is. Ek het gesoek, maar nie gekry nie. Dit lyk asof die bewering gemaak word,

maar die oomblik dat iemand sy pen op papier sit, kom hy tot ander insigte. Ek kry wel bewerings van

adellike afkoms op die internet.

Van die mense wat moonlik kan aanspraak maak op adellike herkoms is Von Imhoff, De Chavonnes en

Von Dessin. Die eerste twee is nie in die SAG nie, maar die derde een wel. Nie een van hulle het egter

afstammelinge in Suid-Afrika nagelaat nie.

Eduard Moritz het ŉ artikel oor Joachim Nikolaus von Dessin in Mecklenburgische Jahrbücher, Band 99

(1935), S. 209-218 gepubliseer, wat natuurlik deur al die genies en wikkies en geneas oorgeskryf word.

http://mvdok.lbmv.de/mjbrenderer?id=mvdok_document_00003726#b099_yb01_art04

Wat my egter pla, is dat daar nie tot dusver ŉ doop vir hom opgespoor is nie. Nou wonder ek of dit wishful

linking en soetkoek en sardiens vang is.

Karel Schoeman verwys na hom as van die “lesser German nobility,” maar Schoeman se bronne is net die

Dictionary of South African Bibliography en Franken.

Nou wonder ek of daar in sy briefboek iets oor sy ouers staan?

Of kan mens op FamilySearch dalk sy doop kry?

Groete

Elmien

Franken, J. L. M. (1940) ŉ Kaapse huishou uit die 18de eeu; uit Von Dessin se briefboek en memoriaal.

Argiefjaarboek.

Schoeman, K. (2012). Portrait of a slave society. Pretoria: Protea.

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]

Sent: 01 December 2015 12:31 PM

To: [email protected]

Subject: Re: [SA-Gen] Re Voorouers van Jacques de Savoye

Beste Lyslede,

Oor die jare heen was daar baie staaltjies en verhaaltjies in feitlik elke familie oor die adelike herkoms van

voorouers.

Baie van die familiegeskiedenisse wat soms op skrif gestel is begin met die stelling dat hierdie of daardie

voorouer van adelike afkoms was.

En so sou mens natuurlik verkeerdelik kon aflei dat omtrent elke Afrikaner voorouer van adelike afkoms

was.

De Savoy is seker geen uitsondering nie.

Die meeste van bogenoemde aannames was nie werklike ernstige pogings om enigiets met feite te staaf nie.

Intussen het ons stokpertjie mondig geword en vind mens deesdae werklik uitstekende feitgebaseerde

familiegeskiedenisse. En hoe meer hiervan deesdae die lig sien hoe minder vind mens die aanspraak op

adelike herkoms – moontlik omdat die beskikbare harde feite geen adelike herkoms kan aantoon nie.

Toe die De Savoy gesprek op die Lys gevoer word het die volgende vraag by my opgekom:

Hoeveel van die familiename wat in De Villiers en Pama opgeneem is kon met bewese feite na adelike

afkoms teruggevoer word.

Persoonlik weet ek nie van een nie. Sal egter bly wees as Lede my kan reghelp en sodanige familienaam of

familiename kan uitwys.

Groete,

Rassie

2015-12-01 12:25 GMT+02:00 Jaco Strauss [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>

[SAGenealogie] <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >:

Middag Johan

Ja die HANEKOM stamvader was nie so vermetel nie en so ook nie my ma se GREIFFENSTEIN

Stamvader nie. Daar was destyds wel 'n adelike VON GREIFFENSTEIN familie ook. Maar 'n voorvoegsel

op sigself dien steeds nie 'n bewys van adelike herkom nie. In Frans is daar adelike families wat ook die

"Du" gebruik (Du Guesclin), maar dit maak steeds nie die Du Preez familie adelik nie. Soos hulle dit in

Wikipedia stel:

"Never in French history was this particle proof of nobility."

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobiliary_particle> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobiliary_particle

Hier is ook 'n aanhaling uit 'n 19de eeuse boek wat die kwessie aanspreek

Philip Gilbert Hamerton‟s book French and English: A Comparison (1889):

“After careful observation I have arrived at the conclusion that the French de before a name, whether

rightly or fraudulently borne (for that makes little perceptible difference), is equivalent to about ten

thousand pounds in the [London] marriage market and will often count for more. It is wonderful that it

should be so, considering that all French people know how frequently the de is assumed; but it seems to be

valued as a mark that the bearer belongs to the gentry, which, in fact, he generally does. The genuine

nobility who have become too poor to keep a place in genteel society, and have to work for their living,

seldom retain the particule, or retain it only for a short time. If they did not drop it themselves the world

would drop it for them.”

http://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2010/07/nobiliary-particle.html

So ja, daar is 'n moontlikheid van 'n skakel, maar ongelukkig steeds geen bewys nie.

Jaco


Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:41 am (PST) . Posted by: "Johann Hanekom" johann.hanekom

Hallo Jaco

Michiel DE SAVOYE is heel tereg dalk bloot wensdenkery, maar my stamvader was „n maplotter uit die

Graafskap van Hoya in die noordweste van Duitsland, en my familienaam is nie VON HOYA nie – Jürgen

HANEKOM sou nooit in die 17e eeu so „n vermetele kleim kon waag nie.

Jaques en Marguerite DE SAVOY sou ewemin in die 17e eeu in Savoya of Frankryk „n adelike herkoms

kon kaap het waarop hulle nie geregtig was nie - ons het bloot nognie die koppeling ontdek nie.

Johann Hanekom

Lancaster UK

http://www.hanekom.org.uk/gedview/individual.php?pid=I1967

<http://www.hanekom.org.uk/gedview/individual.php?pid=I1967

1d Re: Re Voorouers van Jacques de Savoye


"Heinrich Mielmann"

Middag Lede

Die adel onderwerp wat tans bespreek word vind hieronder „n artikel wat vir my ADEL meer verstaanbaar

gemaak. Jammer dit is in Engels maar GOOGLe doen nie reg aan hom nie.

Vertrou dit is van waarde.

Ek is van die oer adel wat uit gesterf het, maar so ook is baie ander families.

Groete

Heinrich HJ Mielmann

This is taken from an article written by Gilbert von Studnitz in "Der Blumenbaum", a publication of the

Sacramento German Genealogy Society, Vol. 9, number 4, April-June 1992.

“The German Nobility in Law and Practice

The German system of nobility, as indeed the European system in general, is quite different from the

English system with which most Americans are familiar. The English have a peerage system and not an

extensive system of nobility, though their squires or landed gentry would tend to be the closest thing. In

England only the eldest son usually inherits the title and the rest are considered commoners, though they

may bear "courtesy titles" if their father has more than one, or may be called "Lord" or "Lady" without

actually being one.

The German nobility is divided into two major divisions, that of the lower (niedriger Adel) and the high

(hoher Adel). It is further divided into the ancient nobility (Uradel) and the newer nobility (commonly

known as Briefadel, or literally nobility by letter-cachet, but also including other groups.) The Uradel may

be of either the lower or high nobility, but the Briefadel is always of the lower.

In Germany, all legitimate children of a nobleman become nobles themselves, and most titles pass onto all

the children with few exceptions. All the children of sovereigns did not, of course, become kings or

electors, but did become princes or princesses. In the last decades of the German Empire, in imitation of the

English system, a few families were ennobled with titles that passed on only to the eldest son, the

remainder retaining either their father's former title (which he also still carried) or just untitled nobility.

The hereditary and legal privileges of the nobility as the first class of the realm ended in August of 1919

when the Constitution of the so-called Weimar Republic came into force. The laws that concerned the

nobility for some one thousand years before 1919 stated that hereditary nobility could only be passed on

through legitimate biological descent from a noble father but not through adoption and especially not

through purchase. When non-nobles were adopted the family name could be carried by the adoptee, but

none of the noble designations of the family (such as a title or the "von".) If such an adoptee wished to

become noble, he or she had to apply to their sovereign for such status in the same manner as any other

subject. An exemption to this was and is still made by the "legitimatio per matrimonium subsequens",

which allowed the legitimation of children born out of wedlock after the marriage of their noble parents. By

this the children became full hereditary nobles, though some social stigma still remained.

Since 1919, according to the German republican government, the nobility no longer exists as a legal entity.

Nevertheless, the titles and noble designations of the nobility have not been abolished, as they have in

Austria, and may still be carried. Legally they are now merely parts of the family name and in theory

convey no status. Following this rule all children of, for example, a Count von Beust, whether male or

female, would have the family name Count von Beust. Similarly you could find ladies named Elisabeth

Duke of Saxony or Luise Prince of Prussia. A woman married to the Hereditary Grand Duke of Baden

would, in law, also be named Hereditary Grand Duke of Baden, as would all their children. To avoid

making all this seem too ridiculous the German government ignores much of its own law and allows the

wives and children of nobles to take the gender-specific titles appropriate to their sex.

Another example of society ignoring the 1919 law and following traditional practice is that in all German

telephone books a person named, for instance, Baron von Richthofen would be listed under an "R" for

Richthofen rather than a "v" for "von" or a "B" for "Baron". The U.S. telephone books are (unwittingly)

more compliant with current German legal writ by listing all persons with a "von" under "v".

The 1919 law also causes difficulties in the case of children inheriting senior titles of their fathers. For

example, in certain families only the senior member is a count, and the rest are untitled nobles. For a child

to use the inherited title of "count" upon his father's death would involve a court petition for a name

change, which is not always granted when the judge or magistrate has an anti-noble bias.

Current law allows a person adopted by a noble to use the noble family name, and since the title is

considered part of the name, that is also conveyed by adoption. It should be noted that the German nobility

never acknowledges such persons to be noble, no matter what they call themselves.

Those persons who claim nobility through adoption or purchase, such as the notorious Claus von Bülow,

the Nazi foreign minister von Ribbentrop, or Zsa-Zsa Gabor's husband who uses a Saxon princely title, are

not recognized as part of the historical nobility and are no more members of that class than anyone else

claiming a status to which they are not entitled. Most such persons are essentially deluding themselves

while trying to fool others.

German nobles, especially the Uradel, have a particular class consciousness and consider themselves

interrelated and cousins even if they don't know exactly how. Often in the case of the ancient families this

is correct due to centuries of intermarriage. All members of the Uradel are considered by themselves to be

of the same status, whether they are untitled, barons, counts, or whatever else they may be. The particular

title of a person is far less important among the nobility than the age and standing of the family. This is

particularly true as a number of old families have branches of various levels. For instance, the Counts,

Barons, and untitled von Bothmers are all part of the same family. The Uradel also tend to look down on

the Briefadel as parvenus, even when the Briefadel may have been noble for centuries. I recall visiting a

cousin on the Lüneburger Heath in Lower Saxony who had a brass plate on his front door stating

"Lieferanten und Briefadel zur Hintertür", meaning "Deliveries and Briefadel to the rear entrance". Though

meant as a joke, there was still a bit of seriousness behind it.

The Noble Designation

The basic designation of the nobility is the predicate "von", which the vast majority of German nobles

carry. There are a small number of noble houses, almost exclusively of the Uradel, which have never used

the "von" or any other noble predicate, but are nevertheless of fully equal standing with those that do.

In northern and eastern Germany there are a substantial number of families (such as the von Kranichfelds)

that use the "von" as designations of the towns where they come from (as is the case with most older noble

families) but have never been noble and make no pretense to be so.

A few noble houses use "von und zu", meaning they are not only from the place mentioned but still retain

it. Another Uradel house is named "aus dem Winckel" instead of "von dem Winckel" but having the same

meaning. Other noble predicates sometimes seen are "von dem", "von der", or "vom". "Van" is not used by

German nobles but is Dutch or Flemish and does not usually connote nobility in those countries.

As a way of differentiating themselves from non-nobles, the aristocracy of northern Germany in most cases

uses the abbreviation "v.", instead of writing out the "von", while still pronouncing the whole word. The

southern Germans most often write out the "von". It is always spelled with a small "v" unless it would be

grammatically incorrect, such as in the beginning of a sentence.

Bibliography

Notwithstanding regional preferences, the "Bible" of the nobility, the Genealogisches Handbuch des Adels

(Genealogical Handbook of the Nobility), published by C. A. Starke in Limburg/Lahn, uses the "v." to

designate nobles and spells out the "von" for non-noble families or individual non-nobles within aristocratic

families. This handbook, colloquially known as the "Gotha" for its predecessor the Almanach de Gotha (in

German, Gothaisches Hofkalendar) attempts a comprehensive listing of all German noble houses currently

or recently in existence and comes out in several volumes on a yearly basis, listing all living members of a

family and all those deceased since the last edition. The handbook is divided into several series with the

binding in different colors: Royal and Princely houses, Counts, Barons, Untitled nobles, and Family

histories. Within these series the families are, except since recently the Counts and Barons, divided into

Uradel or Briefadel.

The advantage of having these books is obvious: there is a wealth of genealogical information, and as it

lists addresses, many potential contacts can be found. It is also a way of being able to investigate people's

claims to noble status, though this kind of checking is not considered "gentlemanly". The listing is

thorough and is checked for accuracy, though they depend to a large degree on the individual's

honesty in telling the truth about themselves.

Not every German noble family is included, as most often the family concerned must contribute financially

to its inclusion, or the family may be too small, poor, or unwilling to warrant repeated updating.

Divisions of the German Nobility Uradel

This oldest level of the nobility is made up of those houses which by no later than 1400 were members of

the knightly class, or patricians of a free Imperial city such as Frankfurt/Main. Most often these houses are

counted as noble since "time immemorial" as at their first appearance in written records they were already

noble. The families that make up this segment of the nobility usually descend from the knights or most

important warriors of a sovereign that were the basis of his fighting force, or more rarely from a senior civil

official of the time. The Uradel often had legal privileges over the newer nobility certifying their higher

standing, such as in the Nobles Law of the Kingdom of Saxony of 1902. There are far fewer Uradel

families still in existence than Briefadel due to the fact that families die out over the centuries and no

Uradel has been created in almost 600 years.

Briefadel

This level of the nobility is made up of those houses which were ennobled since the beginning of the 15th

Century through the end of the German or Austrian Empires in 1918. There were widely differing

prerequisites for this level of the nobility, though most often military or civil service to the sovereign was

the qualities most valued. The Briefadel includes houses ennobled or recognized as noble by the Emperor

or one of the sovereigns of the high nobility. Also included are patricians of the free Imperial cities and

non-German noble houses that immigrated over the centuries, such as the Counts von Polier from France or

the Herren von Zerboni di Sposetti from Italy.

High Nobility

The High Nobility is made up of those families that had Reichsstandschaft, or had a seat in the Parliament

of the Holy Roman Empire. These seats were reserved for sovereign houses. These families were also

Reichsunmittelbar, or in a feudal sense holding their lands directly from the Holy Roman Emperor, who for

four centuries, until the end of the empire in 1806, came from the house of Habsburg. In essence, these

families were rulers of their own countries, often in times of a weak emperor paying only lip service to

their subservience to him. Their relationship to the emperor was then much like that of today's

Commonwealth rulers to the British Queen. Even in times of a strong emperor he was to them more like a

chairman of the board rather than a ruler. Up to the early 19th Century, there were some baronial and

untitled families that held lands directly of the emperor, so essentially being their own rulers, but had no

seat in the Parliament, thus being members of the lower nobility. Many families of the high nobility have

house laws applicable to their members. Often these laws do not allow marriage outside their ranks, even to

the lower nobility which would be considered a morganatic alliance. Even today, the children of a member

of the high nobility who marries morganatically become members of the lower nobility.

Ranks of the High Nobility

Within this division of the nobility the highest title is Emperor, or Kaiser, deriving from Caesar in Latin.

Through most of German history, there was only one of these, the Holy Roman Emperor of the German

Nation, lasting from the crowning of Charlemagne in the year 800 through the renunciation of the last

emperor, Franz II, in 1806 under the influence of Napoleon, who by then had proclaimed himself Emperor

of the French. Kaiser Franz had already declared himself Emperor of Austria, as Franz I, in 1804. In

essence, the emperor just changed his title so as to more accurately reflect the political realities of the time.

A second German empire was established in 1871 after the victory of the German states over Napoleon III,

when King Wilhelm I of Prussia was proclaimed German Emperor. He was never titled Emperor of

Germany, as this nation was not a unitary state but a federation of monarchies and free city-states with

quasi-republican governments. The title of German Emperor was always carried in conjunction with that of

King of Prussia, and he was addressed as Kaiserliche und Königliche Majestät (Imperial and Royal

Majesty). The Austrian Emperor, based to a large degree upon his position as King of Hungary, was

addressed as Apostolic Majesty.

Both German and Austrian empires ceased to exist after World War I, and the imperial titles have not been

carried since the last emperors died (Wilhelm II of Germany in 1941, Karl of Austria in 1922). The last

empress, Zita of Austria, died in 1989.

The children of the German emperor were Prinzen von Preußen (Princes of Prussia, not Germany) and

royal highnesses, except the eldest, who was German Kronprinz (Crown Prince) and addressed as Imperial

and Royal Highness. The current heir to the throne is titled the, rather than a, Prince of Prussia, and is the

only one in Germany still addressed as Imperial and Royal Highness. The children of the Austrian emperor

were titled Archdukes or Archduchesses of Austria rather than princes, and called Imperial and Royal

Highnesses.

Next we come to König and Königin, or King and Queen, which was carried by the rulers of the larger

German states (Bavaria, Hanover, Prussia, Saxony, Württemberg). They were addressed as Majesty, and

their children, princes or princesses, as Royal Highnesses.

After these came the Großherzog, or Grand Duke, who were styled royal highness, and were rulers of

somewhat smaller states, such as the two Mecklenburgs or Luxemburg (which until 1918 was considered a

German state). The heir to these thrones was known as an Erbgroßherzog, or hereditary grand duke, and the

other children were princes or princesses. Additionally in the Saxon kingdom, grand duchy, and duchies, all

the children of the ruler were also styled dukes or duchesses.

The next level is that of Herzog, or Duke, who was normally styled Highness.

Kurfürst, or Elector in English, ranked with a Duke. The electors were originally the greatest lords of the

Holy Roman Empire, both temporal and spiritual, who elected the Emperor before the throne became

hereditary. They later became sovereigns no different from the rest. The last ruling Elector, Hesse-Cassel,

lost his throne to Prussia in 1866.

Landgraf (Landgrave), Markgraf (Margrave), and Pfalzgraf (Palsgrave or Count Palatine) ranked somewhat

with a Duke and are usually considered higher than a Fürst. All sovereigns of this rank were eventually

"promoted"; to higher titles, but the titles were sometimes used instead of crown prince for their states, and

are currently used for the Heads of the Houses of Baden, Hesse and Saxony. Depending on circumstances,

they could be styled Royal Highness or simply Highness. In the Middle Ages, some sovereigns were

Burggrafs, or Burgraves, but all these took higher titles early on and Burggraf became a title and sometimes

function, like Wildgraf, of the lower nobility.

Next follows Fürst (for which there is no good translation in English, but which is confusingly called

Prince). These are styled Durchlaucht, translated as Serene Highness. Children of dukes, kurfürsts, and

fürsts were all princes or princesses. In the third generation their descendants sometimes become counts,

except for the ruling line, which retains the princely title.

The last category of the high nobility still in existence is that of Graf, or Count. The last sovereigns of this

rank ceased ruling after the Congress of Vienna in 1815. They are styled Erlaucht, or Illustrious Highness.

Their children are all counts or countesses. A former somewhat higher rank of gefürsteter Graf, or princely

count, no longer exists.

Among all the higher nobility the idea of Ebenbürtigkeit exists, meaning all of them, no matter what the

title, are considered of equal birth and standing.

Ranks of the Lower Nobility

Very often a certain level of income, wealth, or social standing was necessary for appointment to these

ranks, so as to demonstrate the ability of the person ennobled to maintain himself at a proper level.

The highest rank of the non-sovereign nobility is Herzog or Duke, a title almost never given them and then

only "ad personam", or much like an English life peer. An example is Otto von Bismarck as Duke of

Lauenburg. He was styled Serene Highness.

The highest rank that normally was part of the lower nobility is Fürst. This title, like Duke, was given to

them only in the last centuries of the monarchy. Their children were rarely princes, but more usually counts

or barons, depending on what was the original title of the Fürst.

Next in rank is Graf or Count, which in modern times could be given primogeniture (inherited only by the

eldest son), but was usually given to all the children of the new count. A very few houses also carry the title

Burggraf which is approximately equivalent to Count.

Baron follows, which is almost always called Freiherr in Germany, but given as Baron to the Germans of

the Baltic regions. For many years it was in dispute whether Baron was equivalent to Freiherr (which was

deemed "better"), but this was settled in the last century in an affirmative manner. The wife of a Freiherr is

a Freifrau, the daughter a Freiherrin. This last title is sometimes abbreviated Freiin. The wife of a Baron is

a Baronin, the daughter a Baronesse. Another variant of this rank is called Edler Herr, or Edle Herrin for

females, which is borne by only a few very old families (such as the Gans zu Putlitz).

The last level is that of the untitled nobility, which nevertheless includes some titled families. Normally an

untitled noble is addressed as Herr, in this context meaning Lord.

In former times untitled nobles, especially those from the eastern regions, were addressed as Junker, a title

still in usage in the Netherlands as Jonkheer. It is no longer normally used in Germany. In Bavaria and

especially Austria, the hereditary title of Ritter (Knight) was given to families, but they were still

considered part of the untitled nobility. Much the same applies to the title of Edler, which is mainly

northern and central German. While the wife and daughters of an Edler were titled Edle, the wife of a Ritter

was called a Frau (in this sense Lady) and not Ritterin.

Affiliations of the German Nobility

Though the formal power of the German nobility is gone, it still remains a considerable social force. After

the debacle of World War II, the aristocracy gradually reformed in groups based on religious affiliation or

province of origin. For well over 30 years, these groups have been affiliated as the "Vereinigung der

Deutschen Adelsverbände" and published the monthly "Deutsches Adelsblatt" in the small town of

Westerbrak (now part of Kirchbrak). The legalistic "Deutsches Adelsrechtsausschuß" was set up, composed

of members from various noble and chivalric organizations, to determine in questionable cases that belongs

to the nobility or if a person has a right to a noble title he claims. Only if there is a positive judgment by

this organization can someone join one of the nobles' associations or have their family listed in the Gotha.

It has been estimated that there are some 40,000 nobles of all ranks in Germany today.”

1e Re: Re Voorouers van Jacques de Savoye

Tue Dec 1, 2015 12:07 pm (PST) . Posted by:

"Rassie"

Hallo Heinrich

Dankie vir die insiggewende artikel.

Jy se dat jy afstam van die Uradel wat uitgesterf het.

Ek neem aan dat jy dus jou herkoms bewysbaar tot by hulle kan aantoon. Sal

interessant wees om jou stamboom te kan sien.

Jy se ook dat daar baie soortgelyke families is. Dit sal baie help as jy

hulle in die publikasie van De Villiers en Pama kan identifiseer.

Tydens my verblyf in Muenchen in Bairen Duitsland het ek die voorreg gehad

om gesprekke te voer met afstammelinge van die Wittelsbach familie wat soos

jy weet die koningshuis van Bairen was. Daardie persone kon sonder om te

blik hul stamboom vir jou uit hul kop uitle tot amper by Adam. En dan kon

hulle dit alles nog bewys ook, onder andere deur stamtafels op paleismure.

Groete

Rassie

On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 3:22 PM, 'Heinrich Mielmann' [email protected]

[SAGenealogie] <[email protected]> wrote:

> Middag Lede

>

> Die adel onderwerp wat tans bespreek word vind hieronder „n artikel wat

> vir my ADEL meer verstaanbaar gemaak. Jammer dit is in Engels maar GOOGLe

> doen nie reg aan hom nie.

>

> Vertrou dit is van waarde.

>

> Ek is van die oer adel wat uit gesterf het, maar so ook is baie ander

> families.

>

> Groete

> Heinrich HJ Mielmann

>

> This is taken from an article written by Gilbert von Studnitz in "Der

> Blumenbaum", a publication of the Sacramento German Genealogy Society, Vol.

> 9, number 4, April-June 1992.

>

> *“The German Nobility in Law and Practice*

>

> The German system of nobility, as indeed the European system in general,

> is quite different from the English system with which most Americans are

> familiar. The English have a peerage system and not an extensive system of

> nobility, though their squires or landed gentry would tend to be the

> closest thing. In England only the eldest son usually inherits the title

> and the rest are considered commoners, though they may bear "courtesy

> titles" if their father has more than one, or may be called "Lord" or

> "Lady" without actually being one.

>

> The German nobility is divided into two major divisions, that of the lower

> (niedriger Adel) and the high (hoher Adel). It is further divided into the

> ancient nobility (Uradel) and the newer nobility (commonly known as

> Briefadel, or literally nobility by letter-cachet, but also including other

> groups.) The Uradel may be of either the lower or high nobility, but the

> Briefadel is always of the lower.

>

> In Germany, all legitimate children of a nobleman become nobles

> themselves, and most titles pass onto all the children with few exceptions.

> All the children of sovereigns did not, of course, become kings or

> electors, but did become princes or princesses. In the last decades of the

> German Empire, in imitation of the English system, a few families were

> ennobled with titles that passed on only to the eldest son, the remainder

> retaining either their father's former title (which he also still carried)

> or just untitled nobility.

>

> The hereditary and legal privileges of the nobility as the first class of

> the realm ended in August of 1919 when the Constitution of the so-called

> Weimar Republic came into force. The laws that concerned the nobility for

> some one thousand years before 1919 stated that hereditary nobility could

> only be passed on through legitimate biological descent from a noble father

> but not through adoption and especially not through purchase. When

> non-nobles were adopted the family name could be carried by the adoptee,

> but none of the noble designations of the family (such as a title or the

> "von".) If such an adoptee wished to become noble, he or she had to apply

> to their sovereign for such status in the same manner as any other subject.

> An exemption to this was and is still made by the "legitimatio per

> matrimonium subsequens", which allowed the legitimation of children born

> out of wedlock after the marriage of their noble parents. By this the

> children became full hereditary nobles, though some social stigma still

> remained.

>

> Since 1919, according to the German republican government, the nobility no

> longer exists as a legal entity. Nevertheless, the titles and noble

> designations of the nobility have not been abolished, as they have in

> Austria, and may still be carried. Legally they are now merely parts of the

> family name and in theory convey no status. Following this rule all

> children of, for example, a Count von Beust, whether male or female, would

> have the family name Count von Beust. Similarly you could find ladies named

> Elisabeth Duke of Saxony or Luise Prince of Prussia. A woman married to the

> Hereditary Grand Duke of Baden would, in law, also be named Hereditary

> Grand Duke of Baden, as would all their children. To avoid making all this

> seem too ridiculous the German government ignores much of its own law and

> allows the wives and children of nobles to take the gender-specific titles

> appropriate to their sex.

>

> Another example of society ignoring the 1919 law and following traditional

> practice is that in all German telephone books a person named, for

> instance, Baron von Richthofen would be listed under an "R" for Richthofen

> rather than a "v" for "von" or a "B" for "Baron". The U.S. telephone books

> are (unwittingly) more compliant with current German legal writ by listing

> all persons with a "von" under "v".

>

> The 1919 law also causes difficulties in the case of children inheriting

> senior titles of their fathers. For example, in certain families only the

> senior member is a count, and the rest are untitled nobles. For a child to

> use the inherited title of "count" upon his father's death would involve a

> court petition for a name change, which is not always granted when the

> judge or magistrate has an anti-noble bias.

>

> Current law allows a person adopted by a noble to use the noble family

> name, and since the title is considered part of the name, that is also

> conveyed by adoption. It should be noted that the German nobility never

> acknowledges such persons to be noble, no matter what they call themselves.

>

> Those persons who claim nobility through adoption or purchase, such as the

> notorious Claus von Bülow, the Nazi foreign minister von Ribbentrop, or

> Zsa-Zsa Gabor's husband who uses a Saxon princely title, are not recognized

> as part of the historical nobility and are no more members of that class

> than anyone else claiming a status to which they are not entitled. Most

> such persons are essentially deluding themselves while trying to fool

> others.

>

> German nobles, especially the Uradel, have a particular class

> consciousness and consider themselves interrelated and cousins even if they

> don't know exactly how. Often in the case of the ancient families this is

> correct due to centuries of intermarriage. All members of the Uradel are

> considered by themselves to be of the same status, whether they are

> untitled, barons, counts, or whatever else they may be. The particular

> title of a person is far less important among the nobility than the age and

> standing of the family. This is particularly true as a number of old

> families have branches of various levels. For instance, the Counts, Barons,

> and untitled von Bothmers are all part of the same family. The Uradel also

> tend to look down on the Briefadel as parvenus, even when the Briefadel may

> have been noble for centuries. I recall visiting a cousin on the Lüneburger

> Heath in Lower Saxony who had a brass plate on his front door stating

> "Lieferanten und Briefadel zur Hintertür", meaning "Deliveries and

> Briefadel to the rear entrance". Though meant as a joke, there was still a

> bit of seriousness behind it.

>

> *The Noble Designation*

>

> The basic designation of the nobility is the predicate "von", which the

> vast majority of German nobles carry. There are a small number of noble

> houses, almost exclusively of the Uradel, which have never used the "von"

> or any other noble predicate, but are nevertheless of fully equal standing

> with those that do.

>

> In northern and eastern Germany there are a substantial number of families

> (such as the von Kranichfelds) that use the "von" as designations of the

> towns where they come from (as is the case with most older noble families)

> but have never been noble and make no pretense to be so.

>

> A few noble houses use "von und zu", meaning they are not only from the

> place mentioned but still retain it. Another Uradel house is named "aus dem

> Winckel" instead of "von dem Winckel" but having the same meaning. Other

> noble predicates sometimes seen are "von dem", "von der", or "vom". "Van"

> is not used by German nobles but is Dutch or Flemish and does not usually

> connote nobility in those countries.

>

> As a way of differentiating themselves from non-nobles, the aristocracy of

> northern Germany in most cases uses the abbreviation "v.", instead of

> writing out the "von", while still pronouncing the whole word. The southern

> Germans most often write out the "von". It is always spelled with a small

> "v" unless it would be grammatically incorrect, such as in the beginning of

> a sentence.

>

> *Bibliography*

>

> Notwithstanding regional preferences, the "Bible" of the nobility, the

> Genealogisches Handbuch des Adels (Genealogical Handbook of the Nobility),

> published by C. A. Starke in Limburg/Lahn, uses the "v." to designate

> nobles and spells out the "von" for non-noble families or individual

> non-nobles within aristocratic families. This handbook, colloquially known

> as the "Gotha" for its predecessor the Almanach de Gotha (in German,

> Gothaisches Hofkalendar) attempts a comprehensive listing of all German

> noble houses currently or recently in existence and comes out in several

> volumes on a yearly basis, listing all living members of a family and all

> those deceased since the last edition. The handbook is divided into several

> series with the binding in different colors: Royal and Princely houses,

> Counts, Barons, Untitled nobles, and Family histories. Within these series

> the families are, except since recently the Counts and Barons, divided into

> Uradel or Briefadel.

>

> The advantage of having these books is obvious: there is a wealth of

> genealogical information, and as it lists addresses, many potential

> contacts can be found. It is also a way of being able to investigate

> people's claims to noble status, though this kind of checking is not

> considered "gentlemanly". The listing is thorough and is checked for

> accuracy, though they depend to a large degree on the individual's honesty

> in telling the truth about themselves.

>

> Not every German noble family is included, as most often the family

> concerned must contribute financially to its inclusion, or the family may

> be too small, poor, or unwilling to warrant repeated updating.

>

> *Divisions of the German Nobility*

>

> *Uradel*

>

> This oldest level of the nobility is made up of those houses which by no

> later than 1400 were members of the knightly class, or patricians of a free

> Imperial city such as Frankfurt/Main. Most often these houses are counted

> as noble since "time immemorial" as at their first appearance in written

> records they were already noble. The families that make up this segment of

> the nobility usually descend from the knights or most important warriors of

> a sovereign that were the basis of his fighting force, or more rarely from

> a senior civil official of the time. The Uradel often had legal privileges

> over the newer nobility certifying their higher standing, such as in the

> Nobles Law of the Kingdom of Saxony of 1902. There are far fewer Uradel

> families still in existence than Briefadel due to the fact that families

> die out over the centuries and no Uradel has been created in almost 600

> years.

>

> *Briefadel*

>

> This level of the nobility is made up of those houses which were ennobled

> since the beginning of the 15th Century through the end of the German or

> Austrian Empires in 1918. There were widely differing prerequisites for

> this level of the nobility, though most often military or civil service to

> the sovereign was the qualities most valued. The Briefadel includes houses

> ennobled or recognized as noble by the Emperor or one of the sovereigns of

> the high nobility. Also included are patricians of the free Imperial cities

> and non-German noble houses that immigrated over the centuries, such as the

> Counts von Polier from France or the Herren von Zerboni di Sposetti from

> Italy.

>

> *High Nobility*

>

> The High Nobility is made up of those families that had Reichsstandschaft,

> or had a seat in the Parliament of the Holy Roman Empire. These seats were

> reserved for sovereign houses. These families were also Reichsunmittelbar,

> or in a feudal sense holding their lands directly from the Holy Roman

> Emperor, who for four centuries, until the end of the empire in 1806, came

> from the house of Habsburg. In essence, these families were rulers of their

> own countries, often in times of a weak emperor paying only lip service to

> their subservience to him. Their relationship to the emperor was then much

> like that of today's Commonwealth rulers to the British Queen. Even in

> times of a strong emperor he was to them more like a chairman of the board

> rather than a ruler. Up to the early 19th Century, there were some baronial

> and untitled families that held lands directly of the emperor, so

> essentially being their own rulers, but had no seat in the Parliament, thus

> being members of the lower nobility. Many families of the high nobility

> have house laws applicable to their members. Often these laws do not allow

> marriage outside their ranks, even to the lower nobility which would be

> considered a morganatic alliance. Even today, the children of a member of

> the high nobility who marries morganatically become members of the lower

> nobility.

>

> *Ranks of the High Nobility*

>

> Within this division of the nobility the highest title is Emperor, or

> Kaiser, deriving from Caesar in Latin. Through most of German history,

> there was only one of these, the Holy Roman Emperor of the German Nation,

> lasting from the crowning of Charlemagne in the year 800 through the

> renunciation of the last emperor, Franz II, in 1806 under the influence of

> Napoleon, who by then had proclaimed himself Emperor of the French. Kaiser

> Franz had already declared himself Emperor of Austria, as Franz I, in 1804.

> In essence, the emperor just changed his title so as to more accurately

> reflect the political realities of the time.

>

> A second German empire was established in 1871 after the victory of the

> German states over Napoleon III, when King Wilhelm I of Prussia was

> proclaimed German Emperor. He was never titled Emperor of Germany, as this

> nation was not a unitary state but a federation of monarchies and free

> city-states with quasi-republican governments. The title of German Emperor

> was always carried in conjunction with that of King of Prussia, and he was

> addressed as Kaiserliche und Königliche Majestät (Imperial and Royal

> Majesty). The Austrian Emperor, based to a large degree upon his position

> as King of Hungary, was addressed as Apostolic Majesty.

>

> Both German and Austrian empires ceased to exist after World War I, and

> the imperial titles have not been carried since the last emperors died

> (Wilhelm II of Germany in 1941, Karl of Austria in 1922). The last empress,

> Zita of Austria, died in 1989.

>

> The children of the German emperor were Prinzen von Preußen (Princes of

> Prussia, not Germany) and royal highnesses, except the eldest, who was

> German Kronprinz (Crown Prince) and addressed as Imperial and Royal

> Highness. The current heir to the throne is titled the, rather than a,

> Prince of Prussia, and is the only one in Germany still addressed as

> Imperial and Royal Highness. The children of the Austrian emperor were

> titled Archdukes or Archduchesses of Austria rather than princes, and

> called Imperial and Royal Highnesses.

>

> Next we come to König and Königin, or King and Queen, which was carried by

> the rulers of the larger German states (Bavaria, Hanover, Prussia, Saxony,

> Württemberg). They were addressed as Majesty, and their children, princes

> or princesses, as Royal Highnesses.

>

> After these came the Großherzog, or Grand Duke, who were styled royal

> highness, and were rulers of somewhat smaller states, such as the two

> Mecklenburgs or Luxemburg (which until 1918 was considered a German state).

> The heir to these thrones was known as an Erbgroßherzog, or hereditary

> grand duke, and the other children were princes or princesses. Additionally

> in the Saxon kingdom, grand duchy, and duchies, all the children of the

> ruler were also styled dukes or duchesses.

>

> The next level is that of Herzog, or Duke, who was normally styled

> Highness.

>

> Kurfürst, or Elector in English, ranked with a Duke. The electors were

> originally the greatest lords of the Holy Roman Empire, both temporal and

> spiritual, who elected the Emperor before the throne became hereditary.

> They later became sovereigns no different from the rest. The last ruling

> Elector, Hesse-Cassel, lost his throne to Prussia in 1866.

>

> Landgraf (Landgrave), Markgraf (Margrave), and Pfalzgraf (Palsgrave or

> Count Palatine) ranked somewhat with a Duke and are usually considered

> higher than a Fürst. All sovereigns of this rank were eventually "promoted";

> to higher titles, but the titles were sometimes used instead of crown

> prince for their states, and are currently used for the Heads of the Houses

> of Baden, Hesse and Saxony. Depending on circumstances, they could be

> styled Royal Highness or simply Highness. In the Middle Ages, some

> sovereigns were Burggrafs, or Burgraves, but all these took higher titles

> early on and Burggraf became a title and sometimes function, like Wildgraf,

> of the lower nobility.

>

> Next follows Fürst (for which there is no good translation in English, but

> which is confusingly called Prince). These are styled Durchlaucht,

> translated as Serene Highness. Children of dukes, kurfürsts, and fürsts

> were all princes or princesses. In the third generation their descendants

> sometimes become counts, except for the ruling line, which retains the

> princely title.

>

> The last category of the high nobility still in existence is that of Graf,

> or Count. The last sovereigns of this rank ceased ruling after the Congress

> of Vienna in 1815. They are styled Erlaucht, or Illustrious Highness. Their

> children are all counts or countesses. A former somewhat higher rank of

> gefürsteter Graf, or princely count, no longer exists.

>

> Among all the higher nobility the idea of Ebenbürtigkeit exists, meaning

> all of them, no matter what the title, are considered of equal birth and

> standing.

>

> *Ranks of the Lower Nobility*

>

> Very often a certain level of income, wealth, or social standing was

> necessary for appointment to these ranks, so as to demonstrate the ability

> of the person ennobled to maintain himself at a proper level.

>

> The highest rank of the non-sovereign nobility is Herzog or Duke, a title

> almost never given them and then only "ad personam", or much like an

> English life peer. An example is Otto von Bismarck as Duke of Lauenburg. He

> was styled Serene Highness.

>

> The highest rank that normally was part of the lower nobility is Fürst.

> This title, like Duke, was given to them only in the last centuries of the

> monarchy. Their children were rarely princes, but more usually counts or

> barons, depending on what was the original title of the Fürst.

>

> Next in rank is Graf or Count, which in modern times could be given

> primogeniture (inherited only by the eldest son), but was usually given to

> all the children of the new count. A very few houses also carry the title

> Burggraf which is approximately equivalent to Count.

>

> Baron follows, which is almost always called Freiherr in Germany, but

> given as Baron to the Germans of the Baltic regions. For many years it was

> in dispute whether Baron was equivalent to Freiherr (which was deemed

> "better"), but this was settled in the last century in an affirmative

> manner. The wife of a Freiherr is a Freifrau, the daughter a Freiherrin.

> This last title is sometimes abbreviated Freiin. The wife of a Baron is a

> Baronin, the daughter a Baronesse. Another variant of this rank is called

> Edler Herr, or Edle Herrin for females, which is borne by only a few very

> old families (such as the Gans zu Putlitz).

>

> The last level is that of the untitled nobility, which nevertheless

> includes some titled families. Normally an untitled noble is addressed as

> Herr, in this context meaning Lord.

>

> In former times untitled nobles, especially those from the eastern

> regions, were addressed as Junker, a title still in usage in the

> Netherlands as Jonkheer. It is no longer normally used in Germany. In

> Bavaria and especially Austria, the hereditary title of Ritter (Knight) was

> given to families, but they were still considered part of the untitled

> nobility. Much the same applies to the title of Edler, which is mainly

> northern and central German. While the wife and daughters of an Edler were

> titled Edle, the wife of a Ritter was called a Frau (in this sense Lady)

> and not Ritterin.

>

> Affiliations of the German Nobility

>

> Though the formal power of the German nobility is gone, it still remains a

> considerable social force. After the debacle of World War II, the

> aristocracy gradually reformed in groups based on religious affiliation or

> province of origin. For well over 30 years, these groups have been

> affiliated as the "Vereinigung der Deutschen Adelsverbände" and published

> the monthly "Deutsches Adelsblatt" in the small town of Westerbrak (now

> part of Kirchbrak). The legalistic "Deutsches Adelsrechtsausschuß" was set

> up, composed of members from various noble and chivalric organizations, to

> determine in questionable cases that belongs to the nobility or if a person

> has a right to a noble title he claims. Only if there is a positive

> judgment by this organization can someone join one of the nobles'

> associations or have their family listed in the Gotha.

>

> It has been estimated that there are some 40,000 nobles of all ranks in

> Germany today.”

1f Re: Re Voorouers van Jacques de Savoye


"Rassie"

Hallo Elmien,

Dankie. Ja ek glo nie mens sal so iemand sommer maklik kry nie.

Het aanvanklik toe ek met genealogie begin het ook gesoek na so „n adelike

skakel in my stamboom deur middle van De, Du en Van.

Maar nadat Van der Merwe ensovoorts my in hierdie verband teleurgestel het,

het ek moed opgegee en maar aanvaar dat adelike afstammelinge nie sommer as

matrose en soldate in diens van die VOC aan die Kaap geland het nie.

En ook dat die De en Van maar net „n manier van die VOC en dergelike

administrateurs was was om hierdie gewone mense administratief op of in hul

plek te sit.

Jammer om te hoor dat ek nie via De Savoye by Aunt Lizzie en haar familie

kon uitkom nie.

Die swartskape in die familie het tewens nog altyd vir die meeste

genealogiese opwinding gesorg.

Groete,

Rassie

On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 10:07 PM, Rassie <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hallo Heinrich

>

> Dankie vir die insiggewende artikel.

>

> Jy se dat jy afstam van die Uradel wat uitgesterf het.

>

> Ek neem aan dat jy dus jou herkoms bewysbaar tot by hulle kan aantoon. Sal

> interessant wees om jou stamboom te kan sien.

>

> Jy se ook dat daar baie soortgelyke families is. Dit sal baie help as jy

> hulle in die publikasie van De Villiers en Pama kan identifiseer.

>

> Tydens my verblyf in Muenchen in Bairen Duitsland het ek die voorreg gehad

> om gesprekke te voer met afstammelinge van die Wittelsbach familie wat soos

> jy weet die koningshuis van Bairen was. Daardie persone kon sonder om te

> blik hul stamboom vir jou uit hul kop uitle tot amper by Adam. En dan kon

> hulle dit alles nog bewys ook, onder andere deur stamtafels op paleismure.

>

> Groete

> Rassie

> On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 3:22 PM, 'Heinrich Mielmann' [email protected]

> [SAGenealogie] <[email protected]> wrote:

>>

>> Middag Lede

>>

>> Die adel onderwerp wat tans bespreek word vind hieronder „n artikel wat

>> vir my ADEL meer verstaanbaar gemaak. Jammer dit is in Engels maar GOOGLe

>> doen nie reg aan hom nie.

>>

>> Vertrou dit is van waarde.

>>

>> Ek is van die oer adel wat uit gesterf het, maar so ook is baie ander

>> families.

>>

>> Groete

>>

>> Heinrich HJ Mielmann

>>

>> This is taken from an article written by Gilbert von Studnitz in "Der

>> Blumenbaum", a publication of the Sacramento German Genealogy Society, Vol.

>> 9, number 4, April-June 1992.

(Knip)

1g Re: Re Voorouers van Jacques de Savoye


"Jan Van Jaarsveld" vanjaarsveld_jan

Beste Rassie,

Ek glo dat 'n mens ook hierdie aansprake van adelikes wat met vers en kappitel hulle stambome tot aan die

begin van alle tye in herinnering kan oproep bloot as 'n riglyn en met 'n gesonde knyp sout moet neem.

(Tensy hulle dit natuurlik geneties kan bewys)

Dit is wel bekend dat koninklike en adelike huwelikke aangegaan is om aansprake op eiendom en

strategiese alliansies te bevestig en die uitruil van stambome tussen die ouers van "verloofdes" was veral in

die middle-eeue 'n belangrike deel van die onderhandelingsproses wat huwelikke vooraf gegaan het.

Volgens die vroegste Europese genealoe is daar inderdaad ook meer as genoeg bewyse van kerklikes wat

op grond hiervan bereid was om sodanige stambome teen 'n fooi te "vervaardig" ten einde 'n aanstaande

bruid of bruidegom as 'n meer gesogte "vangs" aan hulle skoonfamilie voor te doen. (Om nie te praat van

die verwringing wat buite egtelike verhoudings op die gewaande suiwerheid en akkuraatheid van adelike

stambome teweeg gebring het nie.)

Net vir die interessante - Kyk gerus ook na die Encyclopedia Brittanica se artikel omtrent die oorsprong

van genealogiese

rekords by :http://www.britannica.com/topic/genealogy

Groetnis,

Jan H.Canberra

From: "Rassie [email protected] [SAGenealogie]" <[email protected]>


Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2015 7:07 AM

Subject: Re: [SA-Gen] Re Voorouers van Jacques de Savoye

Hallo Heinrich

Dankie vir die insiggewende artikel.

Jy se dat jy afstam van die Uradel wat uitgesterf het.

Ek neem aan dat jy dus jou herkoms bewysbaar tot byhulle kan aantoon. Sal interessant wees om jou

stamboom te kan sien.

Jy se ook dat daar baie soortgelyke families is. Ditsal baie help as jy hulle in die publikasie van De Villiers

en Pama kanidentifiseer.

Tydens my verblyf in Muenchen in Bairen Duitsland hetek die voorreg gehad om gesprekke te voer met

afstammelinge van die Wittelsbachfamilie wat soos jy weet die koningshuis van Bairen was. Daardie

persone konsonder om te blik hul stamboom vir jou uit hul kop uitle tot amper by Adam. En dankon hulle

dit alles nog bewys ook, onder andere deur stamtafels op paleismure.

GroeteRassie

(Knip)

2 Senekal-navorsers?


"Anrie Hoogendoorn"

Is daar enige persoon wat die Senekal-wortels in Frankryk in diepte navors?

Ek het 'n "Seneschal" gekry in die doopboeke van 'n Franse dorpie (1660),

gedink as iemand belang stel kan ek die inligting aanstuur.

Groete,

Anrie

3.1 File - netiket.txt


SAGenealogie: herinnering aan lysreëls, en lysnetiket

Die volgende reëls en riglyne is daargestel om almal se ervaring van SA

Genealogie nog meer aangenaam en produktief te maak. Gebruikers van die poslys aanvaar, deur hulle

lidmaatskap en gebruik, die voorwaardes van die lysreels en onderneem om hulle daarby te hou. Indien

iemand nie die reels wil nakom nie, moet hulle asseblief nie die poslys gebruik nie.

Lidmaatskap en bydraes word gemodereer deur die lysbestuur.

Die reëls en riglyne vir poslys-etiket is soos volg:

1. Gesprekstaal

Die voertaal van SAGenealogie is Afrikaans, met aanvaarding van aanhalings

uit bronne in die oorspronklike taal.

2. In- en uittekening

Dit word van lede verwag om self hul intekening as lid op die poslys te

administreer deur te gaan na

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SAGenealogie/

Wanneer 'n lid vir 'n tyd afwesig sal wees, is die beste om tydelik uit te teken

as lid deur 'n e-pos te stuur aan:

[email protected]

en na terugkeer weer aan te teken deur 'n e-pos te stuur aan:

[email protected]

Onthou dat lidmaatskap gekeur word om te verhoed dat gemorspos-advertensies

die poslys oorlaai, en om dit moontlik te maak dat lede wat die reëls herhaaldelik

oortree se lidmaatskap gekanselleer kan word. Lede wat die reëls herhaaldelik

oortree se boodskappe mag aan moderering onderwerp word.

3. SAGenealogie webwerf

Besoek die SAGenealogie webwerf by

http://www.sagenealogie.com of www.sagenealgy.com

om julle te vergewis van die poslys se doelwitte en reëls.

4. Netiket en lysreëls

Netiket (net-etiket) vereis dat lede onder andere die volgende sal doen:

* wees vriendelik en behulpsaam teenoor andere, en respekteer mekaar;

* deel genealogiese inligting met mekaar;

* gebruik te alle tye beskaafde taal;

* hou by die terrein van die poslys, naamlik genealogie (en verwante sake);

* moet asseblief nie persoonlike boodskappe, en boodskappe wat niks

met die genealogie te doen het, op die poslys plaas nie;

* indien jy iets persoonliks wil oordra aan 'n ander lid, doen dit van die

poslys af deur 'n e-pos direk aan die betrokkene te stuur; regsklik op die

boodskap in Outlook Express, maak "properties" oop en kry die afsender

se persoonlike e-adres. Moet asseblief nie net op "reply" klik sonder om

die adres te verander sodat die pos nie per ongeluk ook na die lys toe

gaan nie.

* moenie twiste en vlam-oorlo렢egin of daaraan deelneem nie;

* as jy antwoord op die poslys, sny onnodige teks uit die oorspronklike

boodskap; die meeste e-posprogramme voeg die oorspronklike boodskap

by verstek by wanneer jy op 'n brief antwoord; behou slegs die

noodsaaklike deel van die ou boodskap;

* as jy boodskappe in bundelformaat ontvang, moet nooit die hele bundel

hersend wanneer jy antwoord nie; sny alle nie-tersake boodskappe uit die

bundel uit;

* gebruik altyd 'n relevante woord of sinsnede in die onderwerp-lyn

("subject") sodat ander kan sien waaroor jou boodskap gaan; voordat jy

dus jou antwoord stuur, vergelyk jou brief en die onderwerp-lyn, en

maak die nodige aanpassings;

* wanneer jy inligting of hulp ontvang van 'n ander lid, bedank die lid

kortliks (verkieslik in 'n private boodskap van die poslys af) daarvoor.

5. Toestemming en Kopiereg

Lyslede wat e-pos aan die lys stuur stem in en erken, deur die versending

van die e-pos aan SA-Genealogie, dat die inligting en kennis wat deur hul

verskaf en oorgedra word te enigertyd en op enige manier deur die bestuur

en lyslede gebruik mag word in enige vorm, ook in publikasies en in

databasisse, maar dan op die uitdruklike voorwaarde dat die outeur

(bydraer) en SAGenealogie as bron erken word.

6. Vrywaring

SA Genealogie aanvaar geen verantwoordelikheid vir die inhoud en

korrektheid van enige inligting wat deur lede in e-posse op die lys geplaas

word nie. Die bestuur onderskryf nie noodwendig die opinie wat in e-posse

uitgespreek word nie en aanvaar ook nie verantwoordelikheid daarvoor nie.

6. Bestuur

Kontak die SAGenealogie bestuur as jy verdere inligting

wil bekom, of enigiets onder hul aandag wil bring.

'n E-pos kan aan hulle gestuur word by

[email protected]

Lyseienaars en Bestuur

Krugersdorp, S A

4 [PRESS] Die Burger Oos-Kaap 01 Desember 2015


"Hester Marx"

Sterfgevalle

DU PREEZ, Hester. +Maandag 30 November 2015. Twee seuns, twee skoondogters, kleinseun,

agterkleinkinders.

Diens Donderdag 03 Des 2015 11:00 Milnerton Huis Kapel, First Avenue Funeral Home, 1ste Laan,

Walmer.

Forest Hill-begraafplaas. (Die Burger O-Kaap 01/12/2015) Sue Gillespie First Avenue Funeral Home 041

581 5028

MULLER, Gabriël Rautenbach. +Maandag 23 November 2015. Anton, Christelle. Roudiens Woensdag 02

Des 2015

11:00 NG Kerk Grasvoëlkop, Barbetstraat, Cotswold Uitbreiding, Port Elizabeth. Verassing privaat.

(Die Burger O-Kaap 01/12/2105) Paul Koekemoer AVBOB Port Elizabeth 041 484 2731

PRETORIUS (VILJOEN, Babs. *07/07/1931. +Vrydag 27 November 2015 in Hoësorgeenheid, Cuyler

Hospitaal,

Uitenhage. Kinders Roy, Ethel, Linda en Rocky, kleinkinders, agterkleinkinders. Troosdiens Woensdag 02

Des 2015

11:00 NG Kerk Oos-Gemeente, Uitenhage. (Die Burger Oos-Kaap 01/12/2015) DOVES Uitenhage 041

992 1349

In Memoriam

BOOYSEN, (née CONRADIE), Beyera. 01/12/1915 – 15/08/2001. In tere herinnering aan „n moeder wat

diep

spore getrap het. Kinders, kleinkinders. (Die Burger Oos-Kaap 01/12/2015)

Hester Marx, Loerie

[email protected]

5a "500 Internal Server Error" by NAAIRS


"Wietz Beukes" wietz.beukes

Dagsê

Sukkel net ek met die foutboodskap "500 Internal Server Error" by

National Archives of South Africa (NASA) http://www.national.archives.gov.za/ ??Dit gebeur as mens uit

die "summary" lys na 'n spesifieke dokument opsomming wil gaan. Dieselfde probleem in 3 web blaaiers.

Al van verlede week af.

Groete

5b Re: "500 Internal Server Error" by NAAIRS


"Anrie Hoogendoorn"

Geen probleem aan die kant nie. Maar ek het so paar dae terug ook een dag

lank daarmee gesukkel.

On 01 Dec 2015 5:32 PM, "Wietz Beukes [email protected]

[SAGenealogie]" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Dagsê

> Sukkel net ek met die foutboodskap "500 Internal Server Error" by

> National Archives of South Africa (NASA) http://www.national.archives.gov.za/

> ?? <http://www.national.archives.gov.za/>

> Dit gebeur as mens uit die "summary" lys na 'n spesifieke dokument

> opsomming wil gaan. Dieselfde probleem in 3 web blaaiers. Al van verlede

> week af.

>

> Groete

> <http://www.national.archives.gov.za/>

6a Voorouers van Jacques de Savoye


"Heinrich Mielmann"

Naand Rassie

Net ter verduideliking:

“Ek neem aan dat jy dus jou herkoms bewysbaar tot by hulle kan aantoon.”

Johannes Carl Georg Mielmann (1886-1974) se jare van navorsing 40 jaar.

Hans-Karl Ernst Mielmann (1939-2012) 35 jaar navorsing.

Byde se navorsing wat aan my geskenk is in Duitsland saam met stawende dokumente na lg. se afsterwe.

My navorsing sedert 1988. (dus meer as „n 100 jaar se navorsing in totaal.)

Elke persoon in my Duitse lyne het ek „n rekord van „n kerkregisters in Duitsland of andersins geboorte /

doop dokumente,

oorkondes, altenteil, ahnentafels, koninglike ordes ensv,.fotostate van dokumente en soms selfs die

oorspronklike dokument.

Die oudste afskrifte van dokumente dateer in die jaar 1300 en die oudste aandenkings uit die jaar 1200.

Inligting op webwerwe oor my familie se besonderhede is meestal verkeerd en ek verwerp alle inligting na

verskeie onsuksesvolle pogings om die mense wat dit daar plaas te kontak vir regstellings daarvan en

versoeke om hulle

bronne bekend te stel.

“maar so ook is baie ander families.”

Die families waarna ek verwys verskyn nie in De Villiers en Pama.

Dit is vanne soos Jünemann, Stratmann, Trumpf (dalk deesdae Trump in VSA), Rehwinkel ensv.

“Sal interessant wees om jou stamboom te kan sien.”

Ek het slegs een publikasie daarvan ca. 1240 bladsye.

Sal dit slegs bekend stel sodra daar aan twee universiteite en „n genealogiese vereeniging in

Duitsland elk „n kopie oorhandig word gedurende 2016/17 –

dan eers omrede alle bron dokumente geskandeer en elektronies ge-orden moet wees en

deel van die publikasie sal wees op „n ingeslote CD..

Net soos met die Wittelbach familie is daar ook in my familie baie legendes, maar ek onderskei

baie duidelik tussen legendes, vermoedens en wat wel bewys kan word. Die Wittelbach‟s na my wete

kan werklik nie verder voorouers bewys voor die jaar ca. 900 nie, aldus ek dink dit was „n artikel in

“Die Maus”, „n genealogiese vereeniging in Bremen se tydskrif, sal weer daarna soek.

Groete

Heinrich.

6b Re: Voorouers van Jacques de Savoye


"Rassie"

Hallo Heinrich,

Met al die bewysplase wat jy noem is dit in jou geval duidelik 'n goeie

prestasie en 'n goeie voorbeeld van hoe dit gedoen moet word.

Voorspoed met die publikasie daarvan.

Groete,

Rassie

2015-12-02 0:46 GMT+02:00 'Heinrich Mielmann' [email protected]


> Naand Rassie

>

> Net ter verduideliking:

>

> *“Ek neem aan dat jy dus jou herkoms bewysbaar tot by hulle kan aantoon.”*

>

> Johannes Carl Georg Mielmann (1886-1974) se jare van navorsing 40 jaar.

>

> Hans-Karl Ernst Mielmann (1939-2012) 35 jaar navorsing.

>

> Byde se navorsing wat aan my geskenk is in Duitsland saam met stawende

> dokumente na lg. se afsterwe.

>

> My navorsing sedert 1988. (dus meer as „n 100 jaar se navorsing in totaal.)

>

> Elke persoon in my Duitse lyne het ek „n rekord van „n kerkregisters in

> Duitsland of andersins geboorte / doop dokumente, oorkondes, altenteil, ahnentafels, koninglike ordes

ensv,.fotostate van dokumente en soms selfs die oorspronklike dokument.

>

> Die oudste afskrifte van dokumente dateer in die jaar 1300 en die oudste

> aandenkings uit die jaar 1200.

>

> Inligting op webwerwe oor my familie se besonderhede is meestal verkeerd

> en ek verwerp alle inligting na verskeie onsuksesvolle pogings om die mense wat dit daar plaas te kontak

> vir regstellings daarvan en versoeke om hulle bronne bekend te stel.

>

> “*maar so ook is baie ander families.”*

>

> Die families waarna ek verwys verskyn nie in De Villiers en Pama.

>

> Dit is vanne soos Jünemann, Stratmann, Trumpf (dalk deesdae Trump in VSA),

> Rehwinkel ensv.

>

> “Sal interessant wees om jou stamboom te kan sien.”

>

> Ek het slegs een publikasie daarvan ca. 1240 bladsye.

>

> Sal dit slegs bekend stel sodra daar aan twee universiteite en „n

> genealogiese vereeniging in

>

> Duitsland elk „n kopie oorhandig word gedurende 2016/17 –

> dan eers omrede alle bron dokumente geskandeer en elektronies ge-orden

> moet wees en deel van die publikasie sal wees op „n ingeslote CD..

>

> Net soos met die Wittelbach familie is daar ook in my familie baie

> legendes, maar ek onderskei baie duidelik tussen legendes, vermoedens en wat wel bewys kan word. Die

> Wittelbach‟s na my wete kan werklik nie verder voorouers bewys voor die jaar ca. 900 nie, aldus ek

> dink dit was „n artikel in

> “Die Maus”, „n genealogiese vereeniging in Bremen se tydskrif, sal weer

> daarna soek.

>

> Groete

> Heinrich.

7 [Press] The Mercury /Daily News Tuesday 1 Dec 2015


"Aletta Magrieta Quebbemann" alettaqea9fac

Dag vriende,

QUICKQUIP:- " Someone's sitting in the shade today because someone planted a

tree a long time ago." - US business magnate Warren BUFFETT.

BIRTHDAY:- LUDLOW Wendy . From all at Independent News Papers Classifieds.

(DAILY NEWS)

ENGAGEMENTS:-NOTHARD AVIS. Annabel & Guy NOTHARD announce engagement of

their daughter , Courtney to Wyatt, son of Lynn & Clive

DEATHS:- NAIROBI:- ORPHANAGE DOCTOR KILLED IN ATTACK:-

FOSSACECA Rita + 28 Nov 2015 (51) She was working for a children's charity

in Kenya. She was Italian.She was a radiologist.

BROWN Moira Elaine + 29 Nov 2015 x + Wally. Mother of Erica . Sister,aunt

and friend.Nic and I are enveloped in support and love. Memorial at Caister

Lodge , Musgrave Rd Durban on 4 Dec 2015 at 3pm. OAKLEIGH 031 2059959.

BYALA Monty + 30 Nov 2015 in Perth, Australia x Merle.Father of Peter and

Brian. Father-in-law and grandfather; Good friend of Sharon SHEVIL, Trevor

and David .

COCKRELL Raymond Richard + 25 Nov 2015 x + Beryl. Father, father-in-law,

grand and great-grandfather. Memorial Service at Crusaders Sports Club

Durban North on 4 Dec 2015 at 10am. OAKLEIGH 031 2059959.

DUDART-ABERDEEN (HIPKIN) Laurelle Olga + 27 Nov 2015 in Adelaide ,

Australia. Mother of Debbie, Sharyn and Charles. Mother-in-law of Jim and

Craig. Grandmother of Jessica, Caitlin, Rhiannon, Charlotte, Jaxon, Brooklyn

and Payton.; Sister and sister-in-law of Leonie, Allister and Sue. Gone to

be with her love of life, Captain Gillies DUDART-ABERDEEN. RIP.

GLEDHILL Alastair Garvie 15 May 1943 ---27 Nov 2015. Husband ,father and

friend . From Lyn, Vix and Angus.; Kwaheri my old mat Cheers TT.

JACKSON Gary Brian 22 Aug 1955 ----26 Nov 2015. Eldest son of Shirley & +

Alf. Brother of Neil and Gregg. Brother-in-law to Saskia and Emmi. Uncle to

Thomas , Matthew and Robert. Service on 2 Dec 2015 at Our Lady Of Lourdes

Catholic Church Westville Durban. OAKLEIGH 031 2059959.

JOHNSTONE Lionel Antonio (Tom) 11 Sept 1968 ---28 Nov 2015. Missed by

LAMBERT family.

REINHARDT Leonard (Len) + 29 Nov 2015. Our Hero RIP. Fron Cheryl, Tilly,

Tam, Cayls and the pups.

SEATON Edward + 27 Nov 2015 x + Judy. Father of Ingrid and Les, grandfather

of Tonya and Bronwen. Great-grandfather of Damon and Sebastian, Hana and

Jackson. Cremation private.

WHITEFORD Barret 27 Nov 1972 -----23 Nov 2015. Taken so young. From

WHITEFORD family.; Father of Jessy-James. Youngest son of Robert & Franki.

Grandson of Daphne POTTAGE. Brother to Wayne and Lance. Brother-in-law of

Michelle and Julie and uncle to Taila, Cassidy and Cameron. Celebration of

his life at Beachwood Golf Club on 4 Dec 2015 at 3pm.

WHITEHEAD Walter Raymond (Wally) 26 Oct 2014 ---27 Nov 2015. Memorial on 2

Dec 2015 at City Hill Church Hillcrest at 11am. DOVES 0860025500

WINKLER Trudy + 29 Nov 2015.

WOOD Ronald Gerald Frederick x Cynthia Lena WOOD. Father of Marcel, Arthur,

Ronald, Leanne, Hayley and + Melvin. Father-in-law , grand and

great-grandfather. Funeral at St Gabriel's Anglican Church Austerville Drive

, Wentworth on 2 Dec 2015 . Viewing at 11am. Service at 11:30am Cremation

private. ISIPINGO INC PAM'S 031 9022444.

MEMORIAM:- BARNARD Gloria Agnes May 4 Aug 1926 ----1 Dec 2009. Wife , mother

and mother-in-law from Denny, Sharon and Alan.

PABESCHITZ Werner. Father and grandfather. From Claudia, Kamil and family.

DAILY NEWS.

Gegroet uit Durban ---WARM

Rita Quebbemann.

Onderwerp: {SA-Gen] Bundel Nommer 7333




1a Re: Re Voorouers van Jacques de Savoye by "Rassie"

2 Re: Ek en Queen Elizabeth....(en Karel die Grote) by "Jaco Strauss" jacostrauss

Messages

1a Re: Re Voorouers van Jacques de Savoye


"Rassie"

Hallo Jan,

Stem heeltemaal met jou saam.

Genealogiese bedrog was ook nie net beperk tot die adelikes van ouds nie.

In die gewone samelewing het dit net so baie voorgekom.

'n Goeie voorbeeld daarvan is Maria Kickers se manewales in die vroee

vestigingsjare aan die Kaap toe sy spreekwoordelik met die verbode Appel

deurmekaargeraak het en ek nou eers meer as tien geslagte later moet

uitvind dat my ouma Botha eintlik 'n Appel was.

Dit bring 'n mens egter weer terug by die ou kwessie oor die onderskeid

tussen genetiese, of dan biologiese genealogie, en sosiale genealogie of te

wel familiegeskiedenis en die vraag oor watter een van die twee die

belangrikste is.

Dit is moeilik om te aanvaar dat 'n persoon wat aangeneem is en geen idee

het van wie sy biologiese ouers was as genealogieloos beskou moet word nie.

En selfs as die aangenome persoon wel bewus word of is van sy genetiese

herkoms, kom die vraag dan na vore oor wat dan nou van sy sosiale

familieverbande. Watter een is meer belangrik. Dit is 'n moeilike vraag om

te beantwoord. Selfs die wetenskap het nog geen uitsluitsel gegee of

genetiese samestelling of opvoeding die deurslaggewende faktor in

persoonlikheidsontwikkeling en karaktereienskappe is nie.

Weereens die Appel Botha voorbeeld in die geval van Theunis Botha. Blykbaar

was daar geen vader-seun verhouding tussen hom en Ferdinand Appel nie

terwyl dit blyk dat Frederik Botha die vadersfiguur in sy lewe was. Wie is

dan nou die belangrikste van my voorouers? Ferdinand Appel my genetiese

oer oupa of Frederik Botha wat my oer oupa Theunis opgevoed het? Of het ek

nou twee genealogiee?

DNS is natuurlike 'n goeie rugsteen vir genetiese genealogie. Dit sal egter

baie baie jare neem om die hele bevolking van die vestigingsjare se

manewales uit te sort en dan moontlik Div en Pama of SAG in korrekte

genetiese terme te herskryf.

Na my mening is genealogiese bronne, selfs geboortesertifikate, sonder

genetiese bewyse, meerendeels sosiologiese aannames van familieverbande en

nie noodwendig 'n ware weerspieeling van genetiese herkoms nie.

Sonder omvattende DNA toetsing beoefen ons na my mening in werklikheid

sosiologiese familiegeskiedenis eerder as genetiese genealogie.

Maar as ons moet wag tot alles eers geneties opgeklaar en uitgeklaar is sal

ons vir 'n paar geslagte lank nie ons stokperjie kan beoefen nie.

Groete,

Rassie

On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 1:02 AM, Jan Van Jaarsveld [email protected]


> Beste Rassie,

>

> Ek glo dat 'n mens ook hierdie aansprake van adelikes wat met vers en

> kappitel hulle stambome tot aan die begin van alle tye in herinnering kan

> oproep bloot as 'n riglyn en met 'n gesonde knyp sout moet neem. (Tensy

> hulle dit natuurlik geneties kan bewys)

>

> Dit is wel bekend dat koninklike en adelike huwelikke aangegaan is om

> aansprake op eiendom en strategiese alliansies te bevestig en die uitruil

> van stambome tussen die ouers van "verloofdes" was veral in die middle-eeue

> 'n belangrike deel van die onderhandelingsproses wat huwelikke vooraf

> gegaan het.

>

> Volgens die vroegste Europese genealoe is daar inderdaad ook meer as

> genoeg bewyse van kerklikes wat op grond hiervan bereid was om sodanige

> stambome teen 'n fooi te "vervaardig" ten einde 'n aanstaande bruid of

> bruidegom as 'n meer gesogte "vangs" aan hulle skoonfamilie voor te doen.

> (Om nie te praat van die verwringing wat buite egtelike verhoudings op die

> gewaande suiwerheid en akkuraatheid van adelike stambome teweeg gebring het

> nie.)

>

> Net vir die interessante - Kyk gerus ook na die Encyclopedia Brittanica se

> artikel omtrent die oorsprong van genealogiese rekords by :

> http://www.britannica.com/topic/genealogy

>

>

> Groetnis,

>

> Jan H.

> Canberra

>

>

> *From:* "Rassie [email protected] [SAGenealogie]" <

> [email protected]>

> *To:* [email protected]

> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 2, 2015 7:07 AM

> *Subject:* Re: [SA-Gen] Re Voorouers van Jacques de Savoye

>

>

> Hallo Heinrich

>

> Dankie vir die insiggewende artikel.

>

> Jy se dat jy afstam van die Uradel wat uitgesterf het.

>

> Ek neem aan dat jy dus jou herkoms bewysbaar tot by hulle kan aantoon. Sal

> interessant wees om jou stamboom te kan sien.

>

> Jy se ook dat daar baie soortgelyke families is. Dit sal baie help as jy

> hulle in die publikasie van De Villiers en Pama kan identifiseer.

>

> Tydens my verblyf in Muenchen in Bairen Duitsland het ek die voorreg gehad

> om gesprekke te voer met afstammelinge van die Wittelsbach familie wat soos

> jy weet die koningshuis van Bairen was. Daardie persone kon sonder om te

> blik hul stamboom vir jou uit hul kop uitle tot amper by Adam. En dan kon

> hulle dit alles nog bewys ook, onder andere deur stamtafels op paleismure.

> Groete

> Rassie

> On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 3:22 PM, 'Heinrich Mielmann' [email protected]

> [SAGenealogie] <[email protected]> wrote:

>

>

> Middag Lede

> Die adel onderwerp wat tans bespreek word vind hieronder „n artikel wat

> vir my ADEL meer verstaanbaar gemaak. Jammer dit is in Engels maar GOOGLe

> doen nie reg aan hom nie.

> Vertrou dit is van waarde.

> Ek is van die oer adel wat uit gesterf het, maar so ook is baie ander

> families.

>

> Groete

> Heinrich HJ Mielmann

>

>

> This is taken from an article written by Gilbert von Studnitz in "Der

> Blumenbaum", a publication of the Sacramento German Genealogy Society, Vol.

> 9, number 4, April-June 1992.

> *“The German Nobility in Law and Practice*

> The German system of nobility, as indeed the European system in general,

> is quite different from the English system with which most Americans are

> familiar. The English have a peerage system and not an extensive system of

> nobility, though their squires or landed gentry would tend to be the

> closest thing. In England only the eldest son usually inherits the title

> and the rest are considered commoners, though they may bear "courtesy

> titles" if their father has more than one, or may be called "Lord" or

> "Lady" without actually being one.

> The German nobility is divided into two major divisions, that of the lower

> (niedriger Adel) and the high (hoher Adel). It is further divided into the

> ancient nobility (Uradel) and the newer nobility (commonly known as

> Briefadel, or literally nobility by letter-cachet, but also including other

> groups.) The Uradel may be of either the lower or high nobility, but the

> Briefadel is always of the lower.

> In Germany, all legitimate children of a nobleman become nobles

> themselves, and most titles pass onto all the children with few exceptions.

> All the children of sovereigns did not, of course, become kings or

> electors, but did become princes or princesses. In the last decades of the

> German Empire, in imitation of the English system, a few families were

> ennobled with titles that passed on only to the eldest son, the remainder

> retaining either their father's former title (which he also still carried)

> or just untitled nobility.

>

> The hereditary and legal privileges of the nobility as the first class of

> the realm ended in August of 1919 when the Constitution of the so-called

> Weimar Republic came into force. The laws that concerned the nobility for

> some one thousand years before 1919 stated that hereditary nobility could

> only be passed on through legitimate biological descent from a noble father

> but not through adoption and especially not through purchase. When

> non-nobles were adopted the family name could be carried by the adoptee,

> but none of the noble designations of the family (such as a title or the

> "von".) If such an adoptee wished to become noble, he or she had to apply

> to their sovereign for such status in the same manner as any other subject.

> An exemption to this was and is still made by the "legitimatio per

> matrimonium subsequens", which allowed the legitimation of children born

> out of wedlock after the marriage of their noble parents. By this the

> children became full hereditary nobles, though some social stigma still

> remained.

>

> Since 1919, according to the German republican government, the nobility no

> longer exists as a legal entity. Nevertheless, the titles and noble

> designations of the nobility have not been abolished, as they have in

> Austria, and may still be carried. Legally they are now merely parts of the

> family name and in theory convey no status. Following this rule all

> children of, for example, a Count von Beust, whether male or female, would

> have the family name Count von Beust. Similarly you could find ladies named

> Elisabeth Duke of Saxony or Luise Prince of Prussia. A woman married to the

> Hereditary Grand Duke of Baden would, in law, also be named Hereditary

> Grand Duke of Baden, as would all their children. To avoid making all this

> seem too ridiculous the German government ignores much of its own law and

> allows the wives and children of nobles to take the gender-specific titles

> appropriate to their sex.

>

> Another example of society ignoring the 1919 law and following traditional

> practice is that in all German telephone books a person named, for

> instance, Baron von Richthofen would be listed under an "R" for Richthofen

> rather than a "v" for "von" or a "B" for "Baron". The U.S. telephone books

> are (unwittingly) more compliant with current German legal writ by listing

> all persons with a "von" under "v".

>

> The 1919 law also causes difficulties in the case of children inheriting

> senior titles of their fathers. For example, in certain families only the

> senior member is a count, and the rest are untitled nobles. For a child to

> use the inherited title of "count" upon his father's death would involve a

> court petition for a name change, which is not always granted when the

> judge or magistrate has an anti-noble bias.

> Current law allows a person adopted by a noble to use the noble family

> name, and since the title is considered part of the name, that is also

> conveyed by adoption. It should be noted that the German nobility never

> acknowledges such persons to be noble, no matter what they call themselves.>

> Those persons who claim nobility through adoption or purchase, such as the

> notorious Claus von Bülow, the Nazi foreign minister von Ribbentrop, or

> Zsa-Zsa Gabor's husband who uses a Saxon princely title, are not recognized

> as part of the historical nobility and are no more members of that class

> than anyone else claiming a status to which they are not entitled. Most

> such persons are essentially deluding themselves while trying to fool

> others.

>

> German nobles, especially the Uradel, have a particular class

> consciousness and consider themselves interrelated and cousins even if they

> don't know exactly how. Often in the case of the ancient families this is

> correct due to centuries of intermarriage. All members of the Uradel are

> considered by themselves to be of the same status, whether they are

> untitled, barons, counts, or whatever else they may be. The particular

> title of a person is far less important among the nobility than the age and

> standing of the family. This is particularly true as a number of old

> families have branches of various levels. For instance, the Counts, Barons,

> and untitled von Bothmers are all part of the same family. The Uradel also

> tend to look down on the Briefadel as parvenus, even when the Briefadel may

> have been noble for centuries. I recall visiting a cousin on the Lüneburger

> Heath in Lower Saxony who had a brass plate on his front door stating

> "Lieferanten und Briefadel zur Hintertür", meaning "Deliveries and

> Briefadel to the rear entrance". Though meant as a joke, there was still a

> bit of seriousness behind it.

>

> *The Noble Designation*

> The basic designation of the nobility is the predicate "von", which the

> vast majority of German nobles carry. There are a small number of noble

> houses, almost exclusively of the Uradel, which have never used the "von"

> or any other noble predicate, but are nevertheless of fully equal standing

> with those that do.

> In northern and eastern Germany there are a substantial number of families

> (such as the von Kranichfelds) that use the "von" as designations of the

> towns where they come from (as is the case with most older noble families)

> but have never been noble and make no pretense to be so.

>

> A few noble houses use "von und zu", meaning they are not only from the

> place mentioned but still retain it. Another Uradel house is named "aus dem

> Winckel" instead of "von dem Winckel" but having the same meaning. Other

> noble predicates sometimes seen are "von dem", "von der", or "vom". "Van"

> is not used by German nobles but is Dutch or Flemish and does not usually

> connote nobility in those countries.

>

> As a way of differentiating themselves from non-nobles, the aristocracy of

> northern Germany in most cases uses the abbreviation "v.", instead of

> writing out the "von", while still pronouncing the whole word. The southern

> Germans most often write out the "von". It is always spelled with a small

> "v" unless it would be grammatically incorrect, such as in the beginning of

> a sentence.

>

> *Bibliography*

> Notwithstanding regional preferences, the "Bible" of the nobility, the

> Genealogisches Handbuch des Adels (Genealogical Handbook of the Nobility),

> published by C. A. Starke in Limburg/Lahn, uses the "v." to designate

> nobles and spells out the "von" for non-noble families or individual

> non-nobles within aristocratic families. This handbook, colloquially known

> as the "Gotha" for its predecessor the Almanach de Gotha (in German,

> Gothaisches Hofkalendar) attempts a comprehensive listing of all German

> noble houses currently or recently in existence and comes out in several

> volumes on a yearly basis, listing all living members of a family and all

> those deceased since the last edition. The handbook is divided into several

> series with the binding in different colors: Royal and Princely houses,

> Counts, Barons, Untitled nobles, and Family histories. Within these series

> the families are, except since recently the Counts and Barons, divided into

> Uradel or Briefadel.

> The advantage of having these books is obvious: there is a wealth of

> genealogical information, and as it lists addresses, many potential

> contacts can be found. It is also a way of being able to investigate

> people's claims to noble status, though this kind of checking is not

> considered "gentlemanly". The listing is thorough and is checked for

> accuracy, though they depend to a large degree on the individual's honesty

> in telling the truth about themselves.

>

> Not every German noble family is included, as most often the family

> concerned must contribute financially to its inclusion, or the family may

> be too small, poor, or unwilling to warrant repeated updating.

>

> *Divisions of the German Nobility*

> *Uradel*

> This oldest level of the nobility is made up of those houses which by no

> later than 1400 were members of the knightly class, or patricians of a free

> Imperial city such as Frankfurt/Main. Most often these houses are counted

> as noble since "time immemorial" as at their first appearance in written

> records they were already noble. The families that make up this segment of

> the nobility usually descend from the knights or most important warriors of

> a sovereign that were the basis of his fighting force, or more rarely from

> a senior civil official of the time. The Uradel often had legal privileges

> over the newer nobility certifying their higher standing, such as in the

> Nobles Law of the Kingdom of Saxony of 1902. There are far fewer Uradel

> families still in existence than Briefadel due to the fact that families

> die out over the centuries and no Uradel has been created in almost 600

> years.

> *Briefadel*

> This level of the nobility is made up of those houses which were ennobled

> since the beginning of the 15th Century through the end of the German or

> Austrian Empires in 1918. There were widely differing prerequisites for

> this level of the nobility, though most often military or civil service to

> the sovereign was the qualities most valued. The Briefadel includes houses

> ennobled or recognized as noble by the Emperor or one of the sovereigns of

> the high nobility. Also included are patricians of the free Imperial cities

> and non-German noble houses that immigrated over the centuries, such as the

> Counts von Polier from France or the Herren von Zerboni di Sposetti from

> Italy.

>

> *High Nobility*

> The High Nobility is made up of those families that had Reichsstandschaft,

> or had a seat in the Parliament of the Holy Roman Empire. These seats were

> reserved for sovereign houses. These families were also Reichsunmittelbar,

> or in a feudal sense holding their lands directly from the Holy Roman

> Emperor, who for four centuries, until the end of the empire in 1806, came

> from the house of Habsburg. In essence, these families were rulers of their

> own countries, often in times of a weak emperor paying only lip service to

> their subservience to him. Their relationship to the emperor was then much

> like that of today's Commonwealth rulers to the British Queen. Even in

> times of a strong emperor he was to them more like a chairman of the board

> rather than a ruler. Up to the early 19th Century, there were some baronial

> and untitled families that held lands directly of the emperor, so

> essentially being their own rulers, but had no seat in the Parliament, thus

> being members of the lower nobility. Many families of the high nobility

> have house laws applicable to their members. Often these laws do not allow

> marriage outside their ranks, even to the lower nobility which would be

> considered a morganatic alliance. Even today, the children of a member of

> the high nobility who marries morganatically become members of the lower

> nobility.

> *Ranks of the High Nobility*

> Within this division of the nobility the highest title is Emperor, or

> Kaiser, deriving from Caesar in Latin. Through most of German history,

> there was only one of these, the Holy Roman Emperor of the German Nation,

> lasting from the crowning of Charlemagne in the year 800 through the

> renunciation of the last emperor, Franz II, in 1806 under the influence of

> Napoleon, who by then had proclaimed himself Emperor of the French. Kaiser

> Franz had already declared himself Emperor of Austria, as Franz I, in 1804.

> In essence, the emperor just changed his title so as to more accurately

> reflect the political realities of the time.

> A second German empire was established in 1871 after the victory of the

> German states over Napoleon III, when King Wilhelm I of Prussia was

> proclaimed German Emperor. He was never titled Emperor of Germany, as this

> nation was not a unitary state but a federation of monarchies and free

> city-states with quasi-republican governments. The title of German Emperor

> was always carried in conjunction with that of King of Prussia, and he was

> addressed as Kaiserliche und Königliche Majestät (Imperial and Royal

> Majesty). The Austrian Emperor, based to a large degree upon his position

> as King of Hungary, was addressed as Apostolic Majesty.

>

> Both German and Austrian empires ceased to exist after World War I, and

> the imperial titles have not been carried since the last emperors died

> (Wilhelm II of Germany in 1941, Karl of Austria in 1922). The last empress,

> Zita of Austria, died in 1989.

>

> The children of the German emperor were Prinzen von Preußen (Princes of

> Prussia, not Germany) and royal highnesses, except the eldest, who was

> German Kronprinz (Crown Prince) and addressed as Imperial and Royal

> Highness. The current heir to the throne is titled the, rather than a,

> Prince of Prussia, and is the only one in Germany still addressed as

> Imperial and Royal Highness. The children of the Austrian emperor were

> titled Archdukes or Archduchesses of Austria rather than princes, and

> called Imperial and Royal Highnesses.

>

> Next we come to König and Königin, or King and Queen, which was carried by

> the rulers of the larger German states (Bavaria, Hanover, Prussia, Saxony,

> Württemberg). They were addressed as Majesty, and their children, princes

> or princesses, as Royal Highnesses.

>

> After these came the Großherzog, or Grand Duke, who were styled royal

> highness, and were rulers of somewhat smaller states, such as the two

> Mecklenburgs or Luxemburg (which until 1918 was considered a German state).

> The heir to these thrones was known as an Erbgroßherzog, or hereditary

> grand duke, and the other children were princes or princesses. Additionally

> in the Saxon kingdom, grand duchy, and duchies, all the children of the

> ruler were also styled dukes or duchesses.

>

> The next level is that of Herzog, or Duke, who was normally styled

> Highness.

>

> Kurfürst, or Elector in English, ranked with a Duke. The electors were

> originally the greatest lords of the Holy Roman Empire, both temporal and

> spiritual, who elected the Emperor before the throne became hereditary.

> They later became sovereigns no different from the rest. The last ruling

> Elector, Hesse-Cassel, lost his throne to Prussia in 1866.

>

> Landgraf (Landgrave), Markgraf (Margrave), and Pfalzgraf (Palsgrave or

> Count Palatine) ranked somewhat with a Duke and are usually considered

> higher than a Fürst. All sovereigns of this rank were eventually "promoted";

> to higher titles, but the titles were sometimes used instead of crown

> prince for their states, and are currently used for the Heads of the Houses

> of Baden, Hesse and Saxony. Depending on circumstances, they could be

> styled Royal Highness or simply Highness. In the Middle Ages, some

> sovereigns were Burggrafs, or Burgraves, but all these took higher titles

> early on and Burggraf became a title and sometimes function, like Wildgraf,

> of the lower nobility.

>

> Next follows Fürst (for which there is no good translation in English, but

> which is confusingly called Prince). These are styled Durchlaucht,

> translated as Serene Highness. Children of dukes, kurfürsts, and fürsts

> were all princes or princesses. In the third generation their descendants

> sometimes become counts, except for the ruling line, which retains the

> princely title.

>

> The last category of the high nobility still in existence is that of Graf,

> or Count. The last sovereigns of this rank ceased ruling after the Congress

> of Vienna in 1815. They are styled Erlaucht, or Illustrious Highness. Their

> children are all counts or countesses. A former somewhat higher rank of

> gefürsteter Graf, or princely count, no longer exists.

>

> Among all the higher nobility the idea of Ebenbürtigkeit exists, meaning

> all of them, no matter what the title, are considered of equal birth and

> standing.

>

> *Ranks of the Lower Nobility*

> Very often a certain level of income, wealth, or social standing was

> necessary for appointment to these ranks, so as to demonstrate the ability

> of the person ennobled to maintain himself at a proper level.

> The highest rank of the non-sovereign nobility is Herzog or Duke, a title

> almost never given them and then only "ad personam", or much like an

> English life peer. An example is Otto von Bismarck as Duke of Lauenburg. He

> was styled Serene Highness.

>

> The highest rank that normally was part of the lower nobility is Fürst.

> This title, like Duke, was given to them only in the last centuries of the

> monarchy. Their children were rarely princes, but more usually counts or

> barons, depending on what was the original title of the Fürst.

>

> Next in rank is Graf or Count, which in modern times could be given

> primogeniture (inherited only by the eldest son), but was usually given to

> all the children of the new count. A very few houses also carry the title

> Burggraf which is approximately equivalent to Count.

>

> Baron follows, which is almost always called Freiherr in Germany, but

> given as Baron to the Germans of the Baltic regions. For many years it was

> in dispute whether Baron was equivalent to Freiherr (which was deemed

> "better"), but this was settled in the last century in an affirmative

> manner. The wife of a Freiherr is a Freifrau, the daughter a Freiherrin.

> This last title is sometimes abbreviated Freiin. The wife of a Baron is a

> Baronin, the daughter a Baronesse. Another variant of this rank is called

> Edler Herr, or Edle Herrin for females, which is borne by only a few very

> old families (such as the Gans zu Putlitz).

>

> The last level is that of the untitled nobility, which nevertheless

> includes some titled families. Normally an untitled noble is addressed as

> Herr, in this context meaning Lord.

>

> In former times untitled nobles, especially those from the eastern

> regions, were addressed as Junker, a title still in usage in the

> Netherlands as Jonkheer. It is no longer normally used in Germany. In

> Bavaria and especially Austria, the hereditary title of Ritter (Knight) was

> given to families, but they were still considered part of the untitled

> nobility. Much the same applies to the title of Edler, which is mainly

> northern and central German. While the wife and daughters of an Edler were

> titled Edle, the wife of a Ritter was called a Frau (in this sense Lady)

> and not Ritterin.

>

> Affiliations of the German Nobility

> Though the formal power of the German nobility is gone, it still remains a

> considerable social force. After the debacle of World War II, the

> aristocracy gradually reformed in groups based on religious affiliation or

> province of origin. For well over 30 years, these groups have been

> affiliated as the "Vereinigung der Deutschen Adelsverbände" and published

> the monthly "Deutsches Adelsblatt" in the small town of Westerbrak (now

> part of Kirchbrak). The legalistic "Deutsches Adelsrechtsausschuß" was set

> up, composed of members from various noble and chivalric organizations, to

> determine in questionable cases that belongs to the nobility or if a person

> has a right to a noble title he claims. Only if there is a positive

> judgment by this organization can someone join one of the nobles'

> associations or have their family listed in the Gotha.

> It has been estimated that there are some 40,000 nobles of all ranks in

> Germany today.”

2 Re: Ek en Queen Elizabeth....(en Karel die Grote)

Wed Dec 2, 2015 1:01 am (PST) . Posted by:


Daniel wys heel tereg uit dat alle mense met Europese herkoms van Karel die

Grote afstam.

Daar lê sowat 40 geslagte tussen ons en Karel die Grote wat ons laat met 2^39

persone op sy vlak in die stamboom, oftewel 550 biljoen (met 'n "b") mense.

Dit verteenwoordig 'n getal nagenoeg 10 keer groter as die totale

hoeveelheid mense wat ooit geleef het!

Die kanse is dus meer as uitstekend dat Karel met sy magdom kinders een van

daardie 500,000,000,000 sou wees en dit is dan ook wiskundig bewys deur

Joseph Chang in 1999.

http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2013/05/07/charlemagnes-dna-and-our-universal-royalty/

Dis net gewoonlik moeilik om daai lyne oor so 'n lang periode na te kan

naspeur en te kan "bewys". Mens benodig net daai een lyn waar die

dokumentasie behoorlik gehou is en behoue gebly het en dit is waar 'n

adelike konneksie voor 1600 benodig word. Die gepeupel se rekords strek as

'n reël nie juis verder terug as die oudste dooprekords van die Sestiende

eeu nie.

Sodra jy dus 'n adelike in jou stamlyn raakslaan, is die res gewoonlik

maklik. In my geval was die patrisiese Becht familie die skakel omdat hulle

'n familie was wat goed gedokumenteer was en ook 'n illegitieme skakel met

die Huis van Wuerttemberg had. Aangesien die adelikes maar omtrent altyd

ondertrou het is die skakel tussen die burgerstand en die

adelikes gewoonlik so iets. Nie dat die Von Dagerheims gepeupel was nie.

Agnes VON DAGERSHEIM, die hofdame wat my buite-egtelike voorouer by Graaf

Eberhard IV gehad het, se pa was 'n burgemeester van Stuttgard en haar

dogter sou later met die volgende Graaf (Ulrich) se kanselier, Conrad

LYHER, trou. Daar was reeds 'n Von Dagersheim familiewapen lank voor die

familie se interaksie met die graaf....

Die graaf se Duitse Wikipedia blad maak melding van hierdie verhouding

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eberhard_IV._(W%C3%BCrttemberg)

Geni gee ook 'n bron:

Cahiers de Saint-Louis (1976), Louis IX, Roi de France, (Angers: J.

Saillot, 1976), FHL book 944 D22ds., vol. 4 p. 227.

Deur hierdie verhouding is ek Bessie Windsor se 14th cousin once removed ;-)

http://www.geni.com/path/Jaco-Strauss+is+related+to+Queen-Elizabeth-II-of-the-United-

Kingdom?from=6000000000261757272&to=6000000003075071669

Ek was aanvanklik net 'n bewus van die VAN RHEEDE VAN OUDTSHOORN se skakel

na Oubaas Karel asook die aanspraak van die DU PLESSIS familie. Intussen

het ek ook verneem van REITZ via Johan Ahlers.

Dan is daar benewens DE SAVOYE ook die Geni koppelings wat gemaak word die

VAN WYK (deur VAN HATTEMs en Hertog van Gelders) en VAN DER MERWE (deur VAN

MERWEDE asook Gelders adel) families. Hoe akkuraat hierdie koppelings is

weet ek nie. Dra iemand hier dalk kennis van die bronne wat aangewend is?

Is daar dalk nog ander aanspraakmakers?

Groete

Jaco

Re: Ek en Queen Elizabeth....

Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:13 am (PST) .

Posted by: "Daniel Jacobs" danielmalanjacobs

Toemaar Annelie alle mense van Europese afkoms is mos waarskynlik nasate

van Charlegmagne/Karel die Grote. Vader van die eerste verenigde Europa

daar in die laat 700's/vroeë 800's. Ek dink dis nog meer romanties as om

die "16th cousin once removed" te wees aan Koningin Elizabeth.

Vra bietjie vir Jaco - en ook Johann Ahlers - daaroor. Hulle is meer

bekwaam om gewig te gee aan die bewering as ek. Ek het laas in Matriek

Wiskunde gehad.

Groete

Daniel


Datum: Wed Dec 2, 2015



1 Re: Voorouers van Jacques de Savoye (DeV/Pama families) by "Jaco Strauss" jacostrauss

2a AANNEEM-STATUS by "Viljoen, HC <[email protected]>" hc_viljoen

2b Re: AANNEEM-STATUS by "Anrie Hoogendoorn"

3 KAB opsoek sal baie waardeer word by martinalouw

4a Re: Wereld oorlog (WWll) by fh_kriel

4b Re: Wereld oorlog (WWll) by "Anrie Hoogendoorn"

5 [Press] The Mercury /Daily News Wednesday 2 Dec 2015. by "Aletta Magrieta Quebbemann"

alettaqea9fac

Messages

1 Re: Voorouers van Jacques de Savoye (DeV/Pama families)



Môre Rassie

Ek glo die De Villiers/Pama familie met die bes gedokumenteerde lyn die VAN

RHEEDE VAN OUDTSHOORN familie.

Baron Pieter VAN RHEEDE VAN OUDTSHOORN

http://www.kareldegrote.nl/Zoeken/ToonGevondenReeks.php?Reeks=126&Key=

http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00066357&tree=LEO

Ek was aanvanklik net bewus van hierdie VAN RHEEDE VAN OUDTSHOORN

skakeling, maar het intussen ook 'n skakel

deur die STRAUSS Stamvader se moeder ook ontdek. Daar is ook die welbekende

aanspraak deur die DU PLESSIS

familie en intussen het ek ook via Johan Ahlers verneem van REITZ.

FW REITZ

http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00069028&tree=LEO

Dan is daar ook nog Geni waar daar benewens DE SAVOYE ook die koppelings na

Karel die Grote gemaak word deur

die VAN WYK (deur 'n VAN HATTEMs en Hertog van Gelders lyn) en VAN DER

MERWE (deur VAN MERWEDE asook

Gelders adel) families. Hoe akkuraat hierdie koppelings is weet ek nie. Dra

iemand hier dalk kennis van die bronne wat

aangewend is?

Is daar dalk nog ander aanspraakmakers?

Groete

Jaco

Re: Re Voorouers van Jacques de Savoye

Tue Dec 1, 2015 2:37 am (PST) . Posted by: "Rassie"

Beste Lyslede,

<KNIP>

Toe die De Savoy gesprek op die Lys gevoer word het die volgende vraag by

my opgekom:

Hoeveel van die familiename wat in De Villiers en Pama opgeneem is kon met

bewese feite na adelike afkoms teruggevoer word.

Persoonlik weet ek nie van een nie. Sal egter bly wees as Lede my kan

reghelp en sodanige familienaam of familiename kan uitwys.

Groete,

Rassie

2a AANNEEM-STATUS


"Viljoen, HC <[email protected]>" hc_viljoen

Beste Rassie,

Ek stem saam oor die verstandige hantering van die aanneem-status in 'n genealogiese werk. In my eie naby

familie is 'n geval van 'n aangenome seun wat hoegenaamd nie daarin belang stel om uit te vind wie sy

biologiese moeder (en selfs vader) is nie; vir hom is sy aanneem-ouers sy ouers, en daarmee basta. Hy het

uit eie oorweging self die kwessie geopper, duidelik gesê hoe hy daaroor voel, en dat hy die saak as

afgehandel beskou. Sou sy biologiese moeder hom probeer kontak, wil hy nie daarvan weet nie en moet sy

meegedeel word dat hy incommunicado is. Sy eie kinders se naamgewing volg die tradisionele patroon van

oudste seun na paternale oupa, oudste dogter na maternale ouma, ens.

Die vraag is wat doen mens in die geval van aanneem-kinders in 'n gepubliseerde genealogie? Ek het

gevalle waar eksplisiet versoek is om die aanneem-status te vermeld, en in enkele gevalle selfs die

biologiese moeder e/of vader te identifiseer. 'n Naby kennis van ons sal nooit na haar (aangenome)

kleinseun vewys sonder om te noem "XXX, die aangenome seun van YYY" nie - tot vervelens toe, asof ons

elke keer daaraan herinner moet word.

Elke geval moet maar op eie meriete en voorkeur en wense hanteer word.

Groete

Christo

Re: Re Voorouers van Jacques de Savoye


"Rassie"

<mailto:[email protected]?subject=Re%3A%20Re%20Voorouers%20van%20Jacques%20de%20Savo

ye>;

Hallo Jan,

< knip>

'n Goeie voorbeeld daarvan is Maria Kickers se manewales in die vroeë

vestigingsjare aan die Kaap toe sy spreekwoordelik met die verbode Appel

deurmekaargeraak het en ek nou eers meer as tien geslagte later moet

uitvind dat my ouma Botha eintlik 'n Appel was.

Dit bring 'n mens egter weer terug by die ou kwessie oor die onderskeid

tussen genetiese, of dan biologiese genealogie, en sosiale genealogie of te

wel familiegeskiedenis en die vraag oor watter een van die twee die

belangrikste is.

Dit is moeilik om te aanvaar dat 'n persoon wat aangeneem is en geen idee

het van wie sy biologiese ouers was as genealogieloos beskou moet word nie.

<knip>

Groete,

Rassie

2b Re: AANNEEM-STATUS


"Anrie Hoogendoorn"

Ek dink dit is belangrik om in 'n gepubliseerde genealogie duidelik aan te

dui indien iemand aangeneem is - mens weet immers nie of die leser belang

stel in genetiese genalogie of slegs familiegeskiedenis nie. So-ook kan

latere generasies wat miskien DNS-toetse doen, weet waarom daar verskille

is en nie begin spekuleer oor ontrouheid tussen die voorsate nie.

Biologiese/genetiese genealogie is nie belangriker of minder belangrik as

sosiale genealogie/familiegeskiedenis nie, dis slegs die voorkeur van die

navorser.

Groetnis,

Anrie

2015-12-02 10:32 GMT+01:00 'Viljoen, HC [email protected]' [email protected]


> Beste Rassie,

>

> Ek stem saam oor die verstandige hantering van die aanneem-status in „n

> genealogiese werk. In my eie naby familie is „n geval van „n aangenome seun

> wat hoegenaamd nie daarin belang stel om uit te vind wie sy biologiese

> moeder (en selfs vader) is nie; vir hom is sy aanneem-ouers sy ouers, en

> daarmee basta. Hy het uit eie oorweging self die kwessie geopper, duidelik

> gesê hoe hy daaroor voel, en dat hy die saak as afgehandel beskou. Sou sy

> biologiese moeder hom probeer kontak, wil hy nie daarvan weet nie en moet

> sy meegedeel word dat hy *incommunicado* is. Sy eie kinders se naamgewing

> volg die tradisionele patroon van oudste seun na paternale oupa, oudste

> dogter na maternale ouma, ens.

>

> Die vraag is wat doen mens in die geval van aanneem-kinders in „n

> gepubliseerde genealogie? Ek het gevalle waar eksplisiet versoek is om die

> aanneem-status te vermeld, en in enkele gevalle selfs die biologiese moeder

> e/of vader te identifiseer. „n Naby kennis van ons sal nooit na haar

> (aangenome) kleinseun vewys sonder om te noem “XXX, die aangenome seun van

> YYY” nie – tot vervelens toe, asof ons elke keer daaraan herinner moet

> word.

>

> Elke geval moet maar op eie meriete en voorkeur en wense hanteer word.

>

> Groete

> Christo

>

>

> *Re: Re Voorouers van Jacques de Savoye *

>

<https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SAGenealogie/conversations/topics/96876;_ylc=X3oDMTJzdDd0Z

TlxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzExNjY5NDczBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTE5MzkyOARtc2dJZA

M5Njg3NgRzZWMDZG1zZwRzbGsDdm1zZwRzdGltZQMxNDQ5MDQ3NTA2>

>

> Tue Dec 1, 2015 10:57 pm (PST) . Posted by:

>

> "Rassie"

> <[email protected]?subject=Re%3A%20Re%20Voorouers%20van%20Jacques%20de%20Savoye>;

>

> Hallo Jan,

>

< knip>

> 'n Goeie voorbeeld daarvan is Maria Kickers se manewales in die vroeë

> vestigingsjare aan die Kaap toe sy spreekwoordelik met die verbode Appel

> deurmekaargeraak het en ek nou eers meer as tien geslagte later moet

> uitvind dat my ouma Botha eintlik 'n Appel was.

>

> Dit bring 'n mens egter weer terug by die ou kwessie oor die onderskeid

> tussen genetiese, of dan biologiese genealogie, en sosiale genealogie of te

> wel familiegeskiedenis en die vraag oor watter een van die twee die

> belangrikste is.

>

> Dit is moeilik om te aanvaar dat 'n persoon wat aangeneem is en geen idee

> het van wie sy biologiese ouers was as genealogieloos beskou moet word nie.

>

> <knip>

> Groete,

> Rassie

3 KAB opsoek sal baie waardeer word


martinalouw

Is daar dalk 'n barmhartige Samaritaan wat toegang het tot die Kaapstad argief en in die volgende paar

weke of so bereid sou wees om te kyk of 'n sekere slawe naam in twee testamente voorkom, asook vra of 'n

vendusierol bestaan vir 'n sekere boedel en indien wel kyk daarin wie het die slavin in die boedel gekoop?

Dus geen transkripsie van die dokumente nie - net kyk of spesifieke name daarin voorkom of nie. As

iemand kanssien hiervoor, kontak my asb van die lys af vir die detail.

Dit sal moontlik baie help vir my om vordering te maak met die identifikasie van die geheimsinnige

Johanna Petronella BASSON (x DU PLOOY) stammoeder.

Groete,

Martina Louw

(Brisbane)

4a Re: Wereld oorlog (WWll)

Wed Dec 2, 2015 3:01 pm (PST) . Posted by:

fh_kriel

Hi Anrie

Het jy al die oorlogsmuseum in Johannesburg probeer? Hulle het verskeie rekords oor militere aksies.

Ek weet nie meer hoe om hulle te kontak nie, ek het maar in persoon, self die een of twee kere gegaan toe

ek nog in Johannesburg was.

Groete

Erik Kriel

Adelaide, Aus

4b Re: Wereld oorlog (WWll)

Thu Dec 3, 2015 12:37 am (PST) . Posted by:

"Anrie Hoogendoorn"

Haai Erik,

Dit is juis die Oorlogsmuseum wat my aangeraai het om die Weermag-argief te

kontak om eers sy diensrekord te kry.

Dankie en groete,

Anrie

2015-12-03 0:01 GMT+01:00 [email protected] [SAGenealogie] <

[email protected]>:

> Hi Anrie

>

> Het jy al die oorlogsmuseum in Johannesburg probeer? Hulle het verskeie

> rekords oor militere aksies.

> Ek weet nie meer hoe om hulle te kontak nie, ek het maar in persoon, self

> die een of twee kere gegaan toe ek nog in Johannesburg was.

>

> Groete

> Erik Kriel

> Adelaide, Aus

5 [Press] The Mercury /Daily News Wednesday 2 Dec 2015.



Dag vriende,

QUICKQUIP:- "History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely ones they

have exhausted all other alternatives. " - Abba EBAN.

BIRTHS:- GORMLEY Michael & Hayley ,twins Sara Jean & Rebecca Jo * 27 Nov

2015 in Johannesburg. - Hayley and Michael, brother James , Jacqui and

grandpa Gavin.

WESTBROOK Michael & Ingrid announce the safe arrival of their granddaughter

Lola Ivy FRY * 30 Nov 2015 . Daughter of Greg & Lucy FRY. Sister for Cooper.

LOS ANGELES:- ZUCKERBERG Mark & Priscilla CHAN a girl Maxima Chan

ZUCKENBERG. It is their firstborn. Mark is the Facebook chief executive .

DAILY NEWS ANA-DPA.

BIRTHDAY:- NEW YORK:- WOODY Alan turned 80 today. Film maker and actor.

Married 3 times . Moment he is married to Soon-Yi PREVIN, adopted daughter

of Farrow and her husband Andre PREVIN, the composer.

ENGAGEMENTS:- OELSCHIG -OLVER Chris & Lynette, Sharon & Chinks , Keith and

Liz announce engagement of our children Dean & Bianca.

MARRIAGES:-BOTHA Gideon & Chantelle HALL married at Palm Dune, Blythdale

Beach North Coast. (photo)

GOVENDER Dayalan & Rheesha GOUNDEN married at DLI Hall Greyville ,Durban.

(photo).

HIESLER Brad & Claire JOHNSON married at Jozini Tiger Lodge, Jozini

Maputuland.(photo).

PIETERS Wessel & Karyn married at Secret Gardens, in Pietermaritzburg

(photo).

SEWCHARAN Ashni & Satish married in Durban's Umgeni Temple Hall. (photo).

SINGH Oran & Kimmoni married at The DLI Hall Greyville ,Durban. (photo).

DEATHS:- WATER PARK DEVELOPER couple murdered:- MEYER Peter & Joan were

murdered on 27 Nov 2015 in their Noordheuwel home in Krugersdorp last week

.( Sphelele NGUBANE .)

ANGUS Maureen Ann 7 Aug 1949 ---29 Nov 2015 x Rowland. Celebration of her

life at Badgers Restaurant at 12:30pm on 4 November 2015. (Should read Dec

but it is as in press).; In Memory of Maureen. From all the BADGERS family.

SHANLEY'S 031 2057644.

DICKS Alan Brian + 29 Nov 2015 x Merle. Brother of Ivor.

GUERIN nee JANSE VAN RENSBURG Esther Jewel (Jewel) 7 Jan 1932 -----29 Jan

2015.Mother of Michael, Robyn, Christine , Jan and family.

JENKINS Peter Hubert Richard 22 Feb 1933 ----27 Nov 2015 x Phyllis. Father

of Gordon , Bronwyn and Tony. Memorial at Glenwood Presbyterian Church

(Frere Rd) on 4 Dec 2015 at 11am.

MILNE Dean + 27 Nov 2015. Please join Claire, Jeanine and family to

celebrate Dean's life on 4 Dec 2015 at 10am at Fynnlands Dutch Reform Church

Bluff. Donation to Highway Hospice.

MORLEY Rev/Adv Gavin Edwin S.C. 30 Oct 1948 --- 24 Nov 2015 x Jill. Oldest

brother of Brenda, Richard, Sue and Chris. Uncle to 18. Godfather to Lynda,

Peter and Andrew. He was an ordained Priest of the Church of the Province

of Southern Africa, a Senior Counsel of the Republic of South Africa and a

member of the Society of Advocates of KZN. Service to celebrate his life at

St James Anglican Church Morningside at 2pm on 4 Dec 2015. Donations to

Parish of St James - Legacy Fund. OAKLEIGH 031 2059959.

NAIDOO Balan x Priscilla. Father of Calan, Kathy and Helena. Father-in-law,

grandfather. Funeral on 2 Dec 2015 at his residence 15 Gulmal Crescent,

Merebank at 10:30 ---13:00. Proceeding to Clare Estate Crematorium.

Cremation at 14:20pm

REINHARDT Leonard (Len) 21 Aug 1946 ----29 Nov 2015.Father of Tracy.

Brother of Juinita, Michael, Helen and Irma. Grandfather to Luke. Funeral at

The Stellawood Crematorium Chapel Umbilo on 4 Dec 2015 at 1pm. Thanks to

Boetie and Cheryl ,the two anchors that were there in his need. BELL 031

3014793;

SCHRENK Kurt + 28 Nov 2015 x Loretta. Father to Andre, Ronnel, Deon and

Yvette. Memorial at St Peter's Lutheran Church Westville on 4 Dec 2015 at

1pm.

MEMORIAM:-BUCKNER Michael. Love from Liz.

DU PLOOY Ryan 16 Sept 1988 ---2 Dec 2014. Remembered by Dad, Mom and Nix.

MARILLIER Sydney Herbert Died one year ago today.Husband of Phyllis. Father

and grandfather.

Gegroet uit warm Durban effens bewolk nog om 12:30vm.(middernag)

Rita Quebbemann


Datum: Thu Dec 3, 2015


Onderwerpe in hiedie bundel:

1 Fw: 'n Keyter-Borcherds Collage. Die ontmoeting tussen die twee fami by ria.vandenheever


3 Nuut op die Genza webblad by "Ferdie van Wyk"

4 Sterfte van tante by "Aletta Magrieta Quebbemann" alettaqea9fac

5 Nuut op die Genza webblad: Suid-Kaap 23 November by "Ferdie van Wyk"

Messages

1 Fw: 'n Keyter-Borcherds Collage. Die ontmoeting tussen die twee fami


ria.vandenheever

Beste lysgenote,

Met die toestemming van die lyseienaar vertel ek julle graag van my boek waarmee ek baie ingenome is en

wat nou beskikbaar is.

Titel: 'n Keyter-Borcherds Collage. Die ontmoeting tussen die twee families.

Die boek het 'n aantreklike sagteband omslag, ongeveer 200 bladsye in A4 formaat met so 60

kleurillustrasies en nog ander in swart en wit. Ek het dit so aantreklik en leesbaar moontlik probeer maak.

Die skryftaal is Afrikaans met baie aanhalings in Engels en selfs Hollands. In die geheel is dit is eintlik

regtig 'n pragtige produk.

Die storie fokus op die ontmoeting tussen die Keyter- en Borcherds families in die huwelik tussen

Bernardus Johannes Keyter junior * 1856 en Wilhelmina Maria Elizabeth Borcherds ook * 1856. Die

voorsate van die egpaar sowel as hulle nageslag word behandel, aan die hand van baie navorsing oor dié

familielede.

Ek probeer juis om die leser meer te bied as 'n blote geslagsregister, deur die familielede wat bespreek word

uit te bou tot volledige mense deur informasie oor hul grootwordjare, opvoeding, onderrig, eggenote,

beroepslewe, persoonlikhede, waardes en verdere noemenswaardige doen en late, in te sluit.

Soms het ek baie moeite gedoen om bestaande informasie/ stories ens. op te volg wat soms gelei het tot

stawing van die feite of andersins geen substans kon toevoeg nie. Stories maak soms baie interessante

draaie.

Daar is ook hoofstukke wat gewy is aan huldeblyke aan twee afstammelinge van die egpaar nl. Valerie

Keyter en Ena Meintjes in voldoening aan 'n ooreenkoms wat ek aangegaan het met Ena voordat sy oorlede

is. Meer daaroor word in die boek vertel.

Die verkoopprys van die publikasie is R250 plus posgeld per eksemplaar en kan van my bestel word. My e-

posadres is [email protected] en my telefoonnommer 021 930 1525/ 2721 930 1525

Ria van den Heever * Riana Johanna Potgieter d.v. Bernardus Keyter Potgieter en Maria Magdalena du

Plessis.



"Hester Marx"

Sterfgevalle

FOURIE, Erwin. 70 jaar. +Maandag 30 November 2015 op Uitenhage.

Eggenote, kinders, kleinkinders. Gedenkdiens Vrydag 04 Des 2015

14:00 NG Kerk Despatch-Suid. Verassing privaat.

(Die Burger O-Kaap 03/12/2015) Ooskaap Begrafnisdienste 041 992 5704

Hester Marx, Loerie

[email protected]

3 Nuut op die Genza webblad

Thu Dec 3, 2015 9:21 pm (PST) . Posted by:

"Ferdie van Wyk"

Goeiemôre almal,

By hierdie twee skakels kan jy artikels lees van onderskeidelik Noord-Wes en

Suid-Kaap.

Noord-Wes

http://www.genza.org.za/index.php/en/branches/northwest-branch-potechefstroo

m-a-klerksdorp

of

http://goo.gl/waoAwF

Suid-Kaap

http://www.genza.org.za/index.php/en/branches/southern-cape/633-meeting-23-n

ovember-2015

of

http://goo.gl/84Bi1A

Groete,

Ferdie

Ferdie van Wyk

Webbestuurder/Web Manager: <http://www.genza.org.za/> www.genza.org.za

Centurion

4 Sterfte van tante



Dag vriende,

Vanoggend gehoor my een tante is oorlede.

Marietjie ELOFF gebore 25 April 1950 ---4 Dec 2015 in Kroonstad x Jan

Salomon LOURENS geskei later en wat haar huidige van was weet ek nie. Sy en

Jan het 3 dogters . Anne-Marie x Anthony STEVENS ouma van Allison STEVENS,

Ma van Madelein x Dons VOSTER ,ouma van Jaco en Florina, Ma van Jana x Chris

HOOD stiefouma van Kajlyeigh en Chelsey, ouma van Dhilana.

Gegroet uit Nat Durban

Rita Quebbemann.

5 Nuut op die Genza webblad: Suid-Kaap 23 November

Fri Dec 4, 2015 12:12 am (PST) . Posted by:

"Ferdie van Wyk"

Goeiemôre almal,

Verder tot my vorige e-pos oor die Suid-Kaap se byeenkoms van 23 November

het ek nou die voordrag van die Nasionale President van die GGSA, Petro

Coreejes-Brink bygevoeg. Wanneer die aanbieding oopmaak kan jy met jou muis

afrol na die volgende skyfie.

Hierdie is 'n eerste vir ons.

Suid-Kaap

http://www.genza.org.za/index.php/en/branches/southern-cape/633-meeting-23-

november-2015

of

http://goo.gl/84Bi1A

Groete,

Ferdie

Ferdie van Wyk

Webbestuurder/Web Manager: www.genza.org.za <http://www.genza.org.za/>

Centurion


Datum: Fri Dec 4, 2015



1 Hetta Hager van Griekwastad by "Martie du Toit" martie_dutoit


3a B.P. vd Schyff - Graf in Kimberly by "isak pretorius"

3b Re: B.P. vd Schyff - Graf in Kimberly by "Marietta van Zyl" mariettavanzyl

4a Re: Sterfte van tante by "Dora Opperman"

5 WEIDEMAN(N)/WYDEMAN GENEALOGIE by "E Weideman" etienne.weideman

6 [Press] The Mercury Fri 4 Dec 2015 by "Aletta Magrieta Quebbemann" alettaqea9fac

Messages

1 Hetta Hager van Griekwastad


"Martie du Toit" martie_dutoit

Het gedink die volgende sterfgeval verdien kennisname.

b1c6d14 e3 Hester Johanna Sophia VAN ROOYEN (Hetta) * Kakamas 21.4.1943 = Kakamas 27.6.1943 †

Griekwastad 1.12.2015 x Kakamas 21.12.1968 Johann HAGER afgetrede veeboer * 3.3.1940 {s.v.

Gilliaume Johann Georg Hager en Elsie Hester Louw} (Bron Van Amsterdam tot Noordkaap. Stamboom

van Anthonius van Rooyen. Die Van Rooyens van die Noordkaap)

Hetta is al beskryf as “Dialektoloog bekend om haar keelkielie kontreitaal‟. Behalwe vier selfgepubliseerde

“Kloek”-publikasies het sy „n digbundel Woordkarosse uitgegee

(Bron: agterblad Erfstories)

Sy was die voormalige kuratrise van die Mary Moffat Museum op Griekwastad. In 2013 het sy ook twee

ander selfpublikasies hanteer nl Erfstories deur Van Rooyen, Linde en Hager en Waaisandse Oustories deur

Thomas Deacon.

Martie du Toit

Bellville

021 945 3356 / 0835970165

Du Toit b5c1d1e8f6g3h5i1j1 - Naudé a2b1c4d1e4f2g1[h1]

Navorser Van Rooyen-familie, nageslag van Anthonius van Rooyen (Noordkaap)

http://www.vanrooyen.safamilytree.com/2_Anthonius/Anthonius_1_Herkoms.htm

Medewerker Dixons van Namakwaland



"Hester Marx"

Sterfgevalle

MEINTJIES, Errol Alphonso. 71 jaar. +Maandag 30 November 2015. Kinders, kleinkinders.

Verassingsdiens Maandag 07 Desember 2015 12:00 Victoria Park Krematorium Kapel,

Ernest Walterweg, Port Elizabeth. (Die Burger Oos-Kaap 04/12/2015)

Ooskaap Begrafnisdienste 041 992 5704

Hester Marx, Loerie

[email protected]

3a B.P. vd Schyff - Graf in Kimberly


"isak pretorius"

Middag Lyslede,

Ek soek aub na n lys van grafte in

Kimberly voor 1940.

Kan iemand vir my die pad aandui aub.?

Isak Pretorius

3b Re: B.P. vd Schyff - Graf in Kimberly


"Marietta van Zyl" mariettavanzyl

http://www.eggsa.org/library/main.php?g2_itemId=1333376




Subject: [SA-Gen] B.P. vd Schyff - Graf in Kimberly

Middag Lyslede,

Ek soek aub na n lys van grafte in

Kimberly voor 1940.

Kan iemand vir my die pad aandui aub.?

Isak Pretorius

4a Re: Sterfte van tante


"Dora Opperman"

Middag Rita,

Jammer om te hoor van julle verlies.

groete

2015-12-04 8:36 GMT+02:00 'Aletta Magrieta Quebbemann' [email protected]


> Dag vriende,

>

> Vanoggend gehoor my een tante is oorlede.

>

> Marietjie ELOFF gebore 25 April 1950 ---4 Dec 2015 in Kroonstad x Jan

> Salomon LOURENS geskei later en wat haar huidige van was weet ek nie. Sy en

> Jan het 3 dogters . Anne-Marie x Anthony STEVENS ouma van Allison STEVENS,

> Ma van Madelein x Dons VOSTER ,ouma van Jaco en Florina, Ma van Jana x

> Chris HOOD stiefouma van Kajlyeigh en Chelsey, ouma van Dhilana.

>

> Gegroet uit Nat Durban

> Rita Quebbemann.

Dora Opperman-Gericke

111 Fairhaven Aftree-oord

Woodhead Rylaan,

Humewood

Port Elizabeth

6001

Cell: 0828768371

[email protected]

5 WEIDEMAN(N)/WYDEMAN GENEALOGIE


"E Weideman" etienne.weideman

Met toestemming van die Lys eienaar, Dennis Pretorius:

Beste Weideman naamgenoot, afstammeling, aangetroude en genealogie navorser,

Die WEIDEMAN(N)/WYDEMAN stamboom boek van die stamvader PAC Weideman is

uiteindelik klaar! Die geslagsregister inligting, stories en foto‟s vir

die boek is veral oor die laaste elf jaar versamel. Na duisende kilometers

se reis per motor en vliegtuig en honderde ure in argiewe en nog honderde

voor die rekenaar, e-posse en telefoonoproepe, kan ek die boek nou laat

druk! Drie tipes boeke word gedruk, kyk hier onder en ook op bestelvorm vir

besonderhede.

Wenk: Die boek is nie net vir jou persoonlik van belang nie, maar is ook

‟n goeie geskenk vir jou kinders en kleinkinders! Nou is die geleentheid om

so ‟n besonderse publikasie, die mees volledige WEIDEMAN stamregister tot op

hede, te bekom!

Beskrywing:

Die sagteband boek is A4 grootte en beslaan 219 bladsye. Die teks is

gedruk op Bond papier (80g/m²) met die buiteblad in kleur, op 300 g/m² glans

papier. Die foto‟s (39 bladsye) word gedruk op glanspapier(135 g/m²) of

Bond, volgens u keuse. Massa van boek: 700 g.

Bestelling en Aflewering:

Die boeke word bestel by Etienne Weideman, kontak besonderhede hier

onder. Let wel: die boeke word eers gedruk nadat bestelvorm en bewys van

betaling ontvang is. Keerdatum: 30 Desember. Die drukkery heropen op 12

Januarie 2016 wanneer drukwerk kan begin. Boeke word gepos teen ongeveer

die 25ste Januarie. Ek stuur 'n e-pos /selfoon boodskap wanneer boeke(e)

gereed/gepos is. Naby persone kan die boek(e) persoonlik by my huis kom

afhaal.

Die volgende inligting is alles op die bestelvorm (ook bank nommer, hier

uitgelaat vir veiligheid)

Pryse:

KLEUR BOEK (Kleur Foto‟s en swart/wit foto‟s, op glans papier) R 365-00

SWART/WIT BOEK (Alle Foto‟s in swart/wit, op glans papier) R 260-00

SWART/WIT BOEK (Alle Foto‟s in swart/wit, op Bond papier (nie glans) R

240-00

Posgeld en verpakking:

Posgeld sluit die naspoor nr. in, indien daar ‟n probleem met aflewering is,

kan ons die spoor van pakkie volg.

1 x boek (verpak in ‟n borrel plastiek koevert) : R 58-00 (posgeld is

ingeslote)

2 x boeke (verpak in borrel plastiek koevert): R 66-00 (posgeld ingeslote)

vir albei.

3 x en meer boeke (verpak in ‟n karton boks): R24-00 per boek (posgeld

ingeslote)

Versekering:

R12 of R8, per Boek, kyk op bestel vorm.

Verskaf jou NAAM en POSADRES, Selfoon nommer en of jy die „Whats‟-toepassing

het.

Kontant met bestelling: Bankrekening: xxxxxxx BANK, xxxxxx-tak, nr:

xxxxxxxxxx

Verwysing op inbetaal bewysstrokie: Naam van persoon wat bestel .

Onthou om posgeld en versekering by te voeg.

Stuur bewys van inbetaling (skandeer dit) per e-pos of slakkepos of met

selfoon kamera neem foto en stuur m.b.v.‟ Whats‟toep. Elektroniese

inbetalings: Stuur asb. bewys. (Ongelukkig nie per faks nie)

Vir Inhoudsopgawe en Bestelvorm doen navraag per e-pos by E Weideman.

‟n Vriendelik versoek: Stuur asseblief hierdie brief aan ander moontlike

belangstellendes, per e-pos en slakkepos.

Vriendelike Groete,

Etienne Weideman

Hoofnavorser van PAC Weideman(n)/Wydeman – Genealogie, Geskiedenis en

Familie-stories.

SOMERSET-WES

e-pos: [email protected]

6 [Press] The Mercury Fri 4 Dec 2015

Fri Dec 4, 2015 10:04 pm (PST) . Posted by:


Dag vriende,

QUICKQUIP:-" The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the

majority. The second-rate mind mind is only happy when it is thinking with

the minority. The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking." - A A

MILNE.

DEATHS:-BRISSET Mark Selwyn of Mayville. Funeral at Souls Outreach

Fellowship Sydenham on 5 Dec 2015. Viewing at 09am. Service at 0930am.

Cremation private. ISIPINGO INC PAM'S 031 9022444.

COCKMAN Rees Noel x Shanelle. Father of London-Skye COCKMAN. Son of Mavis

JOHNSON and Pat SWARTZ. Brother , cousin and friend. Funeral on 5 Dec 2015

at The Assemblies of God Church Wentworth.Viewing at 09am Service at 09:30am

proceeding to Dudley Rd Cemetery. ISIPINGO INC PAM'S 031 9022444.

DEXTER David George. Thanksgiving Service at Pinetown Presbyterian Church at

11am on 7 Dec 2015.

EBEDES Dr Hym .He died late last month in Pretoria at age 79years. He was a

Wildlife Vet.He was married to Audrey. Father of Simeon, Michael and

Gertrude. Stephfather to Alicia and Tania . Garandfather to 11 and

great-grandfather to 7. TONY CARNIE.

FRANKS Rosie Maria x Lucianne. Mother, grandmother ,sister,sister-in-lawand

aunt. Funeral at St Gabriels Anglican Church Austerville Bluff at 0930am.

ProceedingDudley Street Cemetery. DOVES 0860025500.

FRIESLAAR Shenazi of Newlands East. Funeral on 5 Dec 2015 at Durban

Christian Centre Mayville. Viewing at 8am. Service at 08:30am Proceeding to

Newlands East Cemetery. ISIPINGO INC PAM'S 031 9022444.

GOVENDER Govindamma (Amoy) 1935 ----2015 x + Ganas GOVENDER. Mother of Devi,

Vimla and Cookie and Truven. Mother-in-law and grandmother. Funeral 4 Dec

2015 at Residence 38 Clubside Close Phoenix from 09:30----12:15pm Proceeding

to Clare Estate Crematorium Hall from 1pm ---2:30pm. WYEBANK 031 7057321

KENNEDY Brian Patrick 6 Oct 1935 ---29 Nov 2015 x Shirley. Father to Caron

and grandfather(Gopa) to Andrew; Brian and Gopa to Stephen, Judy, Emma and

Joshua GULTIG; Brother to Gergus and Niamh, Donal & Barbara, Brenda &

Norah; Brother-in-law to Francis and Dot FOSTER.

KENNETH Hawley 18 Feb 1949 ----30 Nov 2015.Partner of Merrill. Father of

Jason and Clair. Funeral at St Agnes Anglican Church on 9 Dec 2015 at

12:30pm Followed by meeting of family and friends at Stokers Arms in Kloof

from 13:30pm. OAKLEIGH 031 2059959.

MUN-GAVIN Mavis Grace (May) 15 April 1929 ---30 Nov 2015. Mother to Robin ,

mother-in-law to Glynis and grandmother to Sarah and Michelle. No Service on

requiest.

NAIDOO Mrs.Parvathy x + PM NAIDOO. Mother of Premi, Jaya, Edie and Vician.

Funeral at her residence 10 Temple Lane, Dundee proceeding to Clare Estate

Crematorium where body will lie in state from 13:00---14:15pm.

PILLAY Shummy . Sister of Logan, Kala and Venessa. Funeral at Dravida Hall

Clare Estate from 11:30am ---1pm proceeding to Clare Estate Crematorium for

cremation at 1:30pm. ISIPINGO INC PAM'S 031 9022444.

QUIBELL Marlene 6 June 1949 ----2 Dec 2015. Mother, Sister and Ouma. From

Graham, Gail, Clint, Jessy, Amber and Jordan. SHANLEY'S. 031 2057644.

SHEA Stanley Douglas 5 Feb 1934 ----2 Dec 2015 x Colleen. Father to

Lesley-Anne, Linda and Gavin, Derek and Sandy and Anton. Grandfather to

Lauren, Megan, Carmen, Devon, Ashley and Callan. Great-grandfather of Capri.

MEMORIAM:- CHATER Catherine 17 Aug 1980 ----4 Dec 1999. Daughter and sister.

From Dad, Mom and brother Rob.

MAC DONALD Moira 4 Dec 1928 Happy Birthday x John. Though not with us

anymore you lef memories.

NEAVE Bruce 8 Oct 1975 ---5 Dec 1985Son of Janet & Richard. Brother of Amy

and Zoe NEAVES.

VAN WYNGAARD Daphne Tjoeks. 5 years gone now. Wife of Max.Mother of Roma and

Patsy, Grandmother of Laura, Inga, William and Emma.

Gegroet uit Durban

Rita Quebbemann.


Datum: Sat Dec 5, 2015




2 WEIDEMAN GESLAGSREGISTER by "Viljoen, HC <[email protected]>" hc_viljoen

3a KRIEL by "Heinrich Mielmann"

3b Re: KRIEL by "Helena Garner"

Messages


Sat Dec 5, 2015 7:24 am (PST) . Posted by:

"Hester Marx"

Sterfgevalle

HECHTER, Christina Maria. +Woensdag 02 Desember 2015. Eggenoot, kinders,

keinkinders. Roudiens Dinsdag 08 Desember 2015 11:00 NG Kerk Hoogland,

Isobelstraat, Charlo. Verassing privaat. (Die Burger Oos-Kaap 05/12/2015)

Anneke Geel, AVBOB Newtonpark 041 363 0041

VAN HEERDEN, Gertina Magrita. *26/02/1926. +Donderdag 03 Desember 2015.

Diens Maandag 07 Desember 2015 11:00 NG Kerk Jansenville.

(Die Burger Oos-Kaap 05/12/2015) DOVES Uitenhage 041 992 1349

Hester Marx, Loerie

[email protected]

2 WEIDEMAN GESLAGSREGISTER

Sat Dec 5, 2015 11:33 pm (PST) . Posted by:

"Viljoen, HC <[email protected]>" hc_viljoen

Beste SAGenealoë,

Na verneem word, word die Weideman geslagsregister binnekort gepubliseer; dit word slegs op bestelling

gedruk. Besonderhede is verkrygbaar by die skrywer daarvan, Etienne Weideman, by

[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>

Groete

Christo

3a KRIEL

Sun Dec 6, 2015 1:05 am (PST) . Posted by:

"Heinrich Mielmann"

More Lede

Ek het „n aspirant genealoog met die van Kriel aanbeveel om die CD

„Die Kriels: sommer gewone mense te verkry‟. Sy het dan ook so gemaak

en by GISA in Stellenbosch twee weke gelede aangekoop.

Dit blyk meer na „n foto album en geskiedenis te wees sonder „n stamboom

of dalk net tot die lyne b of c.

My vraag is dit werklik die inhoud of is daar nog „n CD of is hierdie CD

foutief.

Wat wel daar is is van hoë gehalte.

Laat weet asseblief.

Groete


3b Re: KRIEL


"Helena Garner"

Heinrich,

Daar is twee veskillende CD‟s vir hierdie boek. Die een (CD029A) bevat net

die foto‟s en word saam met die boek versprei. Hierdie CD‟s behoort nie

meer in omloop te wees nie, omdat die boek uit druk is.

Die ander een (CD029) bevat die teks en die boek.

Sy moet GISA asb. daarop wys.

Groete.

Helena Garner (née Kriel)

Outeur van die boek.


Sent: 06 December 2015 11:05 AM


Subject: [SA-Gen] KRIEL

More Lede

Ek het „n aspirant genealoog met die van Kriel aanbeveel om die CD

„Die Kriels: sommer gewone mense te verkry‟. Sy het dan ook so gemaak

en by GISA in Stellenbosch twee weke gelede aangekoop.

Dit blyk meer na „n foto album en geskiedenis te wees sonder „n stamboom

of dalk net tot die lyne b of c.

My vraag is dit werklik die inhoud of is daar nog „n CD of is hierdie CD

foutief.

Wat wel daar is is van hoë gehalte.

Laat weet asseblief.

Groete



Datum: Sun Dec 6, 2015



1a Re: KRIEL by "Heinrich Mielmann"

1b Re: KRIEL by "First NameNicol Geldenhuys" nicolgel

1c Re: KRIEL by "Carol Beneke" carolbeneke

2 [Press] The Mercury Fri 4 Dec 2015 CREDITORS...... by "Aletta Magrieta Quebbemann" alettaqea9fac

3 Cemetery Recording Newsletter Vol 13 No-2 by "Ferdie van Wyk"

Messages

1a Re: KRIEL


"Heinrich Mielmann"

Helena

Baie dankie vir jou spoedige verduideliking.

Groete

Heinrich.

1b Re: KRIEL

Sun Dec 6, 2015 9:49 pm (PST) . Posted by:

"First NameNicol Geldenhuys" nicolgel

Beste Heinrich / Helena

Ek hanteer al GISA se bestellings en dra nie enige kennis van die CD nie. Ook het ek geen bestelling vir 'n

Kriel CD ontvang nie.

'n Kriel het my gekontak vir genealogiese inligting/navorsing en ek wag tans vir haar om die nodige

inligting aan te stuur sodat ons haar kan help.

Sy het defintief nie die CD/CD's by GISA in Stellenbosch gekry nie.

Groete

Nicol Geldenhuys

Bedryfsbestuurder - GISA Stellenbosch

1c Re: KRIEL


"Carol Beneke" carolbeneke

Hello Nicol

Die Kriel CD is n GGSA produk.

Groete,

Carol

From: mailto:[email protected]

Sent: 07 December, 2015 7:49 AM


Subject: RE: [SA-Gen] KRIEL

Beste Heinrich / Helena

Ek hanteer al GISA se bestellings en dra nie enige kennis van die CD nie. Ook het ek geen bestelling vir 'n

Kriel CD ontvang nie.

'n Kriel het my gekontak vir genealogiese inligting/navorsing en ek wag tans vir haar om die nodige

inligting aan te stuur sodat ons haar kan help.

Sy het defintief nie die CD/CD's by GISA in Stellenbosch gekry nie.

Groete

Nicol Geldenhuys

Bedryfsbestuurder - GISA Stellenbosch

2 [Press] The Mercury Fri 4 Dec 2015 CREDITORS......



Dag vriende,

QUICKQUIP:-" Knowledge is a process of pilling up facts; wisdom lies in

their simplification." - Martin H. FISHER.

CREDITORS/DEBTORS:-

BUNSEEDHUR Bennie Mohanall ID 351022 5201 08 1 + 10 Oct 2015 x Micheal

BUNSEE ID 640317 5227 08 1 of 27 Mountbatten Drive, Reservoir Hills, Durban.

ESTATE No 14457/2015/DBN. A.B. MAHARAJ ATTORNEYS 767 Marine Drive Brighton

Beach Bluff 4052.TEL:- 031 4677282.

DAVIES Irene Helen ID 531010 0004 08 2 + 18 Sept 2015 x Ceredig Stephen

DAVIES ID 431226 5010 08 7 of Flat 4 , Sundown Village, 27 Harvey Rd,

Pinetown. ESTATE No 007696/2015. McGLASHAN McKEOWN INC SUE NICOL Suite 5, 22

On Main, 22 Old Main Rd Hillcrest 3610. Email> [email protected] <.

EBRAHIM Mohammes Iqbal Sheik ID 630202 5099 08 0 + 28 May 2010 x Rasoolbi

Sheik EBRAHIM ID 630410 0215 08 6 of 283 Crimby Ave, Westcliff, Chatsworth.

ESTATE No 10465/2013. RASOOLBI SHEIK ABRAHIM Executrix c/o P O Box 231

Durban 4000.

JONES James Lewis ID 320719 5025 08 3 + 29 Sept 2015 of 504 White Riggs, 215

Ridge Rd, Durban, KZN. ESTATE No 14168/2015. CAMPBELL ATTORNEYS PO Box 4051

The Square 4021.

KATHRADA Goodlam Nabee ID 310505 4079 08 5 + 15 May 2014 x Ruqayyah KATHRADA

ID 331105 0089 08 3 of 146 Wick Street, Verulam.ESTATE No 1678/2015/PMB.

HOOSEN AGJEE 60 Westriding Row , Sherwood ,Durban > [email protected] <

TEL:- 031 2082458.

KHUMALO Celani Eugene ID 720623 5493 08 3 + 24 April 2015 x in community of

property to Nondumiso Hazel KHUMALO ID 820930 0914 08 1 of 242 Castlehill

Drive, Newlands West Durban. ESTATE No 14817/2015. FNB FIDUCIARY (PTY) LTD

PO Box 27511, Greenacres 6057.

MANESON Carolina Barbara Shirley ID 340724 0238 08 3 + 10 May 2015 of 20

Moore Rd, Sunnydale, Eshowe. ESTATE No 15086/2015/DBN. W E WHITE ATTORNEYS

12 Osborn Rd PO Box 131, Eshowe 3815.TEL:- 035 474 1177.FAX:- 035 474 4527.

MDLETSHE Mirriam Gugu ID 681109 0691 08 4 + 30 Nov 2011 unmarried of no

address given. ESTATE No 16927/2012/DBN. BERKOWITZ COHEN WARSKI 18th

Floor, Southern Life House, 88 Field Street, Durban.REF:-Scarr/TWes.

MILLER Jennifer Anne ID 480125 0100 08 5 + 1Sept 2015 of Unit 4, 73

Coronation Gardens, Queensburgh 4093. ESTATE No 013758/2015. DITZ

INCORPORATED PO Box 25250 Gateway 4321.

MOODLEY Sathiaseelan Rama ID 560410 5121 08 5 + 21 Sept 2015 of Flat 706

Arnleigh Court, Victoria Embankment, Durban. ESTATE No 14812/2015/PMB. FNB

TRUST SERVICES PO Box 212 Westville 3630 Keshnie Reddy TEL:- +27 87730 2577.

NEWPORT Sheila ID 291006 0006 08 5 + 28 Oct 2015 of 207 Windermere Centre,

Lilian Ngoyi Rd, Durban. ESTATE No 014543/2015/DBN. CHRISTOPHER TREVOR

WENSLEY PO Box 51014 Musgrave Rd 4062, TEL:- 031 303 1080.

NGIDI Philomena Nokuphiwa ID 360106 0213 08 1 + 9 Aug 2007 x Mduduzi Phineas

NGIDI ID 351120 5176 08 7of 21 Carissa Rd, Caversham Glen, Pinetown. ESTATE

No 15270/2007/DBN. W E WHITE ATTORNEYS 12 Osborn Rd PO Box 131, Eshowe

3815.TEL:- 035 474 1177.FAX:- 035 474 4527.

SWART Benita Geraldine ID 390428 0051 08 7 + 7 Sept 2015 of Bill Buchanan

Association for the Aged, Goodwin Drive, Durban 4001. ESTATE No 007076/2015

. MCE SMALLWOOD 78A Northway Durban North 4051. TEL:- 031 5644797.

ZULU Velanjani Stephen ID 451116 5450 08 3 + 15 May 2015 x Dzambile Elcah

ZULU ID 440608 0482 08 1 of 25 Schoolview, Kilbarchan, Newcastle 2940

.ESTATE No 007874/2015/PMB. . FNB FIDUCIARY (PTY) LTD PO Box 27511,

Greenacres 6057.

FIRST /FINAL:-

BESSIE Derrick Michael Alec ID 470703 5085 08 9 + 22 April 2015 of 177

Melsetter Rd, Pietermaritzburg x Denise Dorothy BLESSIE ID 630114 0173 08 5

. ESTATE No 003362/2015. FNB FIDUSARY (PTY)LTD PO Box 13527 Cascades 3202

DE BRUYN Phillippus Arnoldus ID 310819 5035 08 2 + 10 June 2015 x Mara DE

BRUYN ID 310430 0025 08 4 of 2108 Sweetwaters, 16 Beach Rd, Amanzimtoti,

Durban. ESTATE No 10333/2015. FNB TRUST SERVICES PO Box 212 Westville 3630

Keshnie Reddy TEL:- +27 87730 2577

DORASAMI Dorasami ID 350620 5054 08 6 + 3 July 2011 x in community of

property Ranjthamma MOODLEY ID 411010 0104 08 5 of 28 Seaview Rd, Umkomaas

4170, ESTATE No 15036/2011/DBN FNB TRUST SERVICES PO Box 27511 Greenacres

6057.

DROUIN Anne-Marie Caroline Alix ID 220214 0062 18 3 + 10 Feb 2014 of Room

77 Nazareth House, 82 Mazisi Kunene Rd, Durban. ESTATE No 22469/2014. FNB

TRUST SERVICES PO Box 212 Westville 3630 Noleen Kwame . TEL:- +27 87 730

2577.

ERDÕS Istvan ID 370504 5064 08 7 + 2 Sept 2015 widower of 42 Echo Rd, Manor,

Pietermaritzburg. ESTATE No 7120/2015/PMB. FNB FIDUCIARY (PTY) LTD PO Box

27511, Greenacres 6057.REF:- Debra Allie email> [email protected] < TEL:- 087

7360000.

GAWUZA Mapoma ID 350414 5268 08 0 + 14 Dec 2014 x in communtiy of property

to Peggy GAWUZA ID 360818 0288 08 3 of 35 Hurbans Drive, Ghandi's Hill

Tongaat. ESTATE No 4975/2015. FNB TRUST SERVICES PO Box 212 Westville 3630

Keshnie Reddy TEL:- +27 87730 2577

GREEN Howard Tavares ID 500306 5062 08 4 + 20 Dec 2012 of 41 Palmiet Drive,

Westville 3630. ESTATE No 000964/2013 . AITKIN LAMBERT ELSWORTH PO Box 50309

Musgrave 4062. TEL:- 031 2027 601. Email:- >[email protected] <

REF:-hb.

HENDERSON Patrick Michael ID 400828 5016 08 4 + 24 Nov 2013 x Colleen Ann

HENDERSON ID 390824 0047 08 5 of 13 Lynton Park Aitken Rd Umtentweni. ESTATE

No 21543/2014 . FNB FIDUSARY (PTY)LTD PO Box 13527 Cascades 3202

IVEY Annette Carmen Hanna Frederike ID 350512 0098 18 6 + 30 May 2015 of

Unit 5, Pomone Gardens , 11 Highbury Rd, Hillcrest 3610. ESTATE No

022654/2014. McGLASHAN McKEOWN INC SUE NICOL Suite 5, 22 On Main, 22 Old

Main Rd Hillcrest 3610. Email> [email protected] <.

JOUBERT Jane Grace ID 540108 0036 08 5 + 22 March 2015 of 39 Kruger Street,

Margate KZN. ESTATE No 7831/2015. H M BOTHA ATTORNEY 1st Floor, TFT House

,Challanger Ave, International Gateway Business Park, New Rd. Midrand.

KHUZWAYO Aaron Arthur Funizwe ID 260513 5129 08 2 + none of 1414-23rd Ave

Clermont Township, Clernaville. ESTATE No 11722/03 . AUSTEN SMITH PO Box 37

Pietermaritzburg 3200. TEL:- 033 3920500.

MC ALISTER Marie Elise ID 480214 0183 08 3 + 2 Aug 2012 of 11 8th Ave ,

Morningside, Durban. KZN. ESTATE No 13900/2012/DBN. J V HART CC PO Box 11751

Dorpspruit 3206. TEL:-033 3450322 FAX:-033 345 1993. Email:->

[email protected] < REF:- J.V. Hart/kh/McA01E.

PIENAAR Heather ID 401104 0056 08 0 + 1 April 2015 of 9 Jacana Lane,

Amberfield, Howick. ESTATE No 3498/2015. FNB FIDUSARY (PTY)LTD PO Box 13527

Cascades 3202

RAMSAY Susan Martha IS 480302 0163 08 8 + 26 July 2007 of 123 Meadway Rd,

Drummond 3660 KZN. ESTATE No 4542/2015/PMB. EWING TAX SERVICES (PTY)LTD 28

Old Main Rd Hillcrest 3610. TEL:- 031 7655937.

RESTING John Leslie Charles ID 470625 5089 16 5 + 8 Dec 2014 x Seraphy

Sibongile RESTING ID 540929 0363 18 1 of 6 Sunbuff, 183 Ridge Rd, Umhlanga

Rocks, Durban. ESTATE No 3909/2015/DBN. FNB TRUST SERVICES PO Box 212

Westville 3630 Keshnie Reddy TEL:- +27 87730 2577

WASSMAN Naida Dawn ID 300530 0034 08 5 + 21 June 2015 of 6 The Willows,

Woodgrove, Pietermaritzburg. ESTATE No 4806/2015 . FNB FIDUSARY (PTY)LTD PO

Box 13527 Cascades 3202

XABA Elijah ID 421010 5755 08 7 + 10 May 2015 x Thembekile Bisisiwe XABA ID

430810 0479 08 1 of Bhadeni Area, Paulpietersburg. . FNB FIDUSARY (PTY)LTD

PO Box 13527 Cascades 3202

ZULU Nomagugu Eunice ID 390316 0461 08 5 + 26 April 2015 of F352 White City,

Umzimkhulu. ESTATE No 004281/2015 . FNB FIDUSARY (PTY)LTD PO Box 13527

Cascades 3202.

Gegroet uit Durban waar dit steeds bedompig bly, al reen dit.

Rita Quebbemann.

3 Cemetery Recording Newsletter Vol 13 No-2


"Ferdie van Wyk"

Goeienaand/Good evening,

Die nuutste Begraafplaas Opteken Nuusbrief kan by hierdie skakel gelees

word:

The latest Cemetery Recording Newsletter can be read at this link:

http://www.genza.org.za/index.php/en/cemetery-rec-news

Groete,

Ferdie

Ferdie van Wyk


Centurion


Datum: Mon Dec 7, 2015



1 Interessante Webwerf met inligting oor vanne by "Jaco Strauss" jacostrauss


3a Susara Johanna Dina Judith Rall PRETORIUS (VAN ZYL) *6 Jan 1889 by "Annemarie Dreyer"

[email protected]

3b Re: Susara Johanna Dina Judith Rall PRETORIUS (VAN ZYL) *6 Jan 1889 by "Annemarie Dreyer"

[email protected]

3c Re: Susara Johanna Dina Judith Rall PRETORIUS (VAN ZYL) *6 Jan 1889 by pieter_j_venter

3d Re: Susara Johanna Dina Judith Rall PRETORIUS (VAN ZYL) *6 Jan 1889 by "Annemarie Dreyer"

[email protected]

4 L J Erasmus by "Alta Roux" altaroux55

5 Durban Nuusbrief/Newsletter by "Ferdie van Wyk"

6 Daniel Johannes BOTHMA by "Dennis Pretorius"

Messages

1 Interessante Webwerf met inligting oor vanne

Mon Dec 7, 2015 3:53 am (PST) . Posted by:


Middag lysgenote

Ek is onlangs deur 'n webwerf gekontak wat my Strauss Projek data gekoppel

het aan hul blad oor die Strauss naam. Ek het toe na die werf gaan kyk en

was aangenaam verras oor die inligting beskikbaar. Veral die Statistieke

van waar die van voorkom is baie interessant. (Sien

http://forebears.io/surnames/strauss )

Die gebruik van die Strauss van wêreldwys maak dit die:

* 6,296ste algemeenste van in die wêreld

* Ongeveer 86,524 gebruik die van in 2014

* Mees algemene land:Suid-Afrika

* Hoogste digtheid:Namibië

Mens kan ook die verspreiding op 'n kaart sien en vir die VK en VSA word

die verspreiding ook per staat en county opgebreek. Ek weet nie hoe goed

die tabel op epos gaan deurkom nie, maar hulle gee ook die top 10 lande aan

waar die van voorkom: Interessant dat Strauss nou amper meer as dubbeld

soveel draers in SA het as in Duitsland waarvandaan daar maar EEN Strauss

uitgekom het, sowat 300 jaar gelede....

Land Totaal Frekwnsie Posisie in land

------ ------- ---------- -----------------

South Africa 26,665 1: 2,025 236

United States 19,269 1: 16,621 2,092

Germany 14,290 1: 5,648 435

Namibia 4,232 1: 499 33

Brazil 3,196 1: 63,519 4,418

Austria 2,410 1: 3,538 272

France 1,947 1: 33,877 4,141

Israel 1,838 1: 4,465 557

England 1,269 1: 42,553 5,644

Canada 1,188 1: 29,821 3,878

Besoek hulle gerus by:

http://forebears.io/surnames

Groete

Jaco

Jaco Strauss

STRAUSS X VAN SCHALKWYK en GREYVENSTEYN X DU PLESSIS



"Hester Marx"

Sterfgevalle

TERBLANCHE, Marie. +Donderdag 03 Desember 2015. Gedenkdiens Dinsdag 08 Desember 2015

11:00 St Marks Congregational Kerk. Verassing privaat. (Die Burger Oos-Kaap 07/12/2015)

Debbie, Gift of Dignity Funeral Services 041 363 8432

In Memoriam

GUNN, Arthur (Pally). Dit is vandag, 07 Desember 2015, twee jaar terug dat die Here jou kom haal het.

Baie liefde. Nennie, kinders, kleinkinders en familie. (Die Burger Oos-Kaap 07/12/2015)

Hester Marx, Loerie

[email protected]

3a Susara Johanna Dina Judith Rall PRETORIUS (VAN ZYL) *6 Jan 1889


"Annemarie Dreyer" [email protected]

Hallo almal

Hierdie dame met die hand vol name (my skoonma se ouma) se ouers ontwyk my nog. Is daar dalk iemand

wat meer inligting het oor die VAN ZYL familie, wat my dalk in die regte rigting kan help?

Susara Johanna Dina Judith Rall PRETORIUS (geb VAN ZYL) *6 Jan 1889

X Klerksdorp

Jacobus Petrus PRETORIUS *21 Maart 1881, 14 Maart 1943, Kaalkraal, Lichtenburg.

Dankie

Annemarie Dreyer

Centurion

Annemarie Dreyer

Accountant

3b Re: Susara Johanna Dina Judith Rall PRETORIUS (VAN ZYL) *6 Jan 1889

Mon Dec 7, 2015 12:13 pm (PST) . Posted by:


Hallo almal

Ek het hierdie versoek vanaand op die FB groep SA Genealogie geplaas en binne �r �die inligting gekry,

kompleet met oorspronklike bronne. Wat 'n uitstekende medium om honderde mede-genealo렴e bereik wat

nie kan wag om te help soek nie. Ek kan die groep werklik aanbeveel vir enigeen wat vasbrand met 'n

hardnekkige grootjie.

Groete

Annemarie

From: "Annemarie Dreyer [email protected] [SAGenealogie]" <[email protected]>

Date: 07/12/2015 15:32 (GMT+02:00)


Subject: [SA-Gen] Susara Johanna Dina Judith Rall PRETORIUS (VAN ZYL) *6 Jan 1889

Hallo almal

Hierdie dame met die hand vol name (my skoonma se ouma) se ouers ontwyk my nog. Is daar dalk iemand

wat meer inligting het oor die VAN ZYL familie, wat my dalk in die regte rigting kan help?

Susara Johanna Dina Judith Rall PRETORIUS (geb VAN ZYL) *6 Jan 1889

X Klerksdorp

Jacobus Petrus PRETORIUS *21 Maart 1881, 14 Maart 1943, Kaalkraal, Lichtenburg.

Dankie

Annemarie Dreyer

Centurion

3c Re: Susara Johanna Dina Judith Rall PRETORIUS (VAN ZYL) *6 Jan 1889


pieter_j_venter

Hallo Annemarie,

Ek het op FB gaan soek na die SA Genealogie blad waarvan jy praat, maar kon dit nie vind nie. Die GGSA-

FB blad het nie nuwe plasings van jou nie nie en so ook nie die ander blaaie wat ek kon kry nie.

Help asb. met die FB blad se adres - klink of daar genealogiese towenaars betrokke is en ek het beslis sulke

hulp nodig met my Muller-tameletjie.

Groete,

Pieter Venter

3d Re: Susara Johanna Dina Judith Rall PRETORIUS (VAN ZYL) *6 Jan 1889



Hi Pieter

Die blad se naam is South African Genealogy. https://www.facebook.com/groups/7627302901/

Jammer, ek was so opgewonde oor al my vondse gisteraand, het dit sommer verAfrikaans . En jy is

heeltemal reg, daar is mense daar wat die skynbaar onvindbare kan vind. ☺

Groete

Annemarie

Centurion


Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2015 10:29 AM


Subject: Re: [SA-Gen] Susara Johanna Dina Judith Rall PRETORIUS (VAN ZYL) *6 Jan 1889

Hallo Annemarie,

Ek het op FB gaan soek na die SA Genealogie blad waarvan jy praat, maar kon dit nie vind nie. Die GGSA-

FB blad het nie nuwe plasings van jou nie nie en so ook nie die ander blaaie wat ek kon kry nie.

Help asb. met die FB blad se adres - klink of daar genealogiese towenaars betrokke is en ek het beslis sulke

hulp nodig met my Muller-tameletjie.

Groete,

Pieter Venter

4 L J Erasmus


"Alta Roux" altaroux55

Lyslede

In Gert en Erika vd Westhuizen se boek, Gids tot die ABO in Oos-Transvaal, verskyn daar op bl 127 'n foto

van die graf van Lourens J Erasmus, wie p 25.10.1901 in die voorgevegte tot Bakenlaagte gesneuwel het;

begrawe Ystervarkfontein, Bethal. Hy was blykbaar 37 jaar oud- kan iemand my dalk help met 'n

geboortedatum?

Groot asseblief!

BVD

Alta van Hendrina (navorsing: Hendrina 100 Jaar.)

5 Durban Nuusbrief/Newsletter


"Ferdie van Wyk"

Goeiemôre/Good morning,

"The final edition for 2015 includes a report back on Ken Gilling's talk on

"WW1 comes to the Northern Cape - the Battle of Kakamas"; debunking some

genetic genealogy myths; an extract from "Natal Settler-Agent" about the

ships "Ina", "Conquering Hero" and "Unicorn" which brought some of the

Byrne's Settlers; and further entertaining / informative snippets"

Lees by hierdie skakel Durban se laaste nuusbrief vir die jaar.

Read Durban's final Newlettre at this link

http://www.genza.org.za/index.php/en/durban-newsletters-74237

Ferdie van Wyk


Centurion

6 Daniel Johannes BOTHMA


"Dennis Pretorius"

Hallo almal

Kan iemand my dalk help met die ouers van ene Daniel Johannes BOTHMA wat

ongeveer 1920 getrou het met Hendrina Stoffelina Mey DE BEER

Hulle is albei gebore ongeveer 1895-1900

Daniel is oorlede in 1939 in Belfast. Ek het Daniel se sterftekennis by

Annelie gekry maar sy ouers se name ontbreek op die sterftekennis.

Ek kon ook nie 'n BOTHMA register iewers opspoor nie - weet iemand dalk van

so'n register ?

Dennis Pretorius

Krugersdorp South Africa

Tel - 011-762-8911

Cel - 083-679-8541

Fax - 086-609-8541






2a Re: Susara Johanna Dina Judith Rall PRETORIUS (VAN ZYL) *6 Jan 1889 by "Annelie Els"

engelkind2000

2b Re: Susara Johanna Dina Judith Rall PRETORIUS (VAN ZYL) *6 Jan 1889 by "Annemarie Dreyer"

[email protected]

3 [Koerant berig] Boksburg Advertiser by "Marietta van Zyl" mariettavanzyl

4 Hendrina Johanna NEL, * VERMEULEN by "Johan Vermeulen" vermeulenjpsa

5a Re: Daniel Johannes BOTHMA by "Jaleen de Beer" jaleen46

6 ROUX Suster? Violet Dolores Lily & Iris Elaine by "Darryl Allwright" darryl.allwright

7 Hetta Hager by "Martie du Toit" martie_dutoit

8 Wes-Kaap Nuusbrief no 4 van 2015 by "Ferdie van Wyk"

Messages



"Hester Marx"

Sterfgevalle

NEL, Jacques Uyslen. 46 jaar. +Maandag 30 November 2015 in Port Elizabeth. Eggenote, kinders,

moeder, broers, suster. Gedenkdiens Woensdag 09 Des 2015 11:00 NG Kerk Uitenhage-Winterhoek,

h/v Malansingel en Langenhovenstraat, Uitenhage. Verassing privaat. (Die Burger O-Kaap 08/12//2015)


Hester Marx, Loerie

[email protected]

2a Re: Susara Johanna Dina Judith Rall PRETORIUS (VAN ZYL) *6 Jan 1889


"Annelie Els" engelkind2000

Annemarie,

Wonderlik.... !!!

Net jammer nie:

South African Genealogy

GGSA

Family Tree Collaborators

Families info SA

kan my help met my staal-muur nie.... :-(

Groetnis.

Annelie.

Pretoria.




Subject: RE: [SA-Gen] Susara Johanna Dina Judith Rall PRETORIUS (VAN ZYL) *6 Jan 1889

Hi Pieter




Groete

Annemarie

Centurion

2b Re: Susara Johanna Dina Judith Rall PRETORIUS (VAN ZYL) *6 Jan 1889



Annelie

Is jou voorsate in „n getuiebeskermingsprogram?

☺

AD

Annemarie Dreyer

Accountant


Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2015 12:20 PM



Annemarie,

Wonderlik.... !!!

Net jammer nie:

South African Genealogy

GGSA

Family Tree Collaborators

Families info SA

kan my help met my staal-muur nie.... :-(

Groetnis.

Annelie.

Pretoria.





Hi Pieter




Groete

Annemarie

Centurion

3 [Koerant berig] Boksburg Advertiser


"Marietta van Zyl" mariettavanzyl

Friday, November 27, 2015

IN MEMORIAM -SINCLAIR GAVIN JOHN. Beloved son and brother. 29 years have

past and our precious memories of you will live in our hearts forever. Mom,

Craig and Michell.

Friday, December 4, 2015

DEATHS - WILLEM JOHANNES RADEMEYER 1957/02/07-2015/11/18. (Geen name by die

berig)

Marietta L van Zyl

Impala Park

Sel: 0827765998

Tel: 0118945917

Faks: 0867563254

Epos 1: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]

Epos 2 : <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]

Bezuidenhout, Botes, Bothma, Burger, Burness, Fourie, Gouws, Greeff, Mare,

Olivier, Schwartz, Snyman, Stolk, Thorpe, Van Zyl

<http://www.myheritage.com/site-151457971/george-van-zyl-marietta-gouws-tree

>

http://www.myheritage.com/site-151457971/george-van-zyl-marietta-gouws-tree

George van Zyl and Marietta Gouws tree Web Site

A death certificate shows you have died.

A photo album shows you have lived.

4 Hendrina Johanna NEL, * VERMEULEN


"Johan Vermeulen" vermeulenjpsa

Goeiemiddag almal,

Is daar iemand wat inligting het oor die volgende persone:

Hendrina of Hendriena Johanna NEL, * Vermeulen, gebore op die Vrystaatse

Goudveldse, vermoedelik Welkom op 12 Mei 1958.

Haar pa was Johannes Christoffel Lodewikus Vermeulen, gewoon te Welkom en

later te Allanridge. Haar moeder Elizabeth Wilhelmina, * MITCHELL.

Dit is nie bekend wat hendriena se NEL eggenoot se name is nie.

Enige hulp sal waardeer word.

Groete

Johan

5a Re: Daniel Johannes BOTHMA


"Jaleen de Beer" jaleen46

Dennis,

Ek het na jou persoonlike e-pos adres gereageer.

Vriendelike groete,

Jaleen


Sent: 08 December 2015 07:32


Subject: [SA-Gen] Daniel Johannes BOTHMA

Hallo almal

Kan iemand my dalk help met die ouers van ene Daniel Johannes BOTHMA wat

ongeveer 1920 getrou het met Hendrina Stoffelina Mey DE BEER

Hulle is albei gebore ongeveer 1895-1900

Daniel is oorlede in 1939 in Belfast. Ek het Daniel se sterftekennis by

Annelie gekry maar sy ouers se name ontbreek op die sterftekennis.

Ek kon ook nie 'n BOTHMA register iewers opspoor nie - weet iemand dalk van

so'n register ?

Dennis Pretorius


Tel - 011-762-8911

Cel - 083-679-8541

Fax - 086-609-8541

6 ROUX Suster? Violet Dolores Lily & Iris Elaine


"Darryl Allwright" darryl.allwright

Naand

Ek wil graag by die ROUX Kenners aanklop en verneem of Violet Dolores Lily

ROUX * 21/7/1932 - 8/5/1997 EN Iris Elaine ROUX * 19/2/1935 dalk susters is

wat getroud was met twee POULTER broers. Indien hulle wel susters was, het

enige iemand vir my inligting aangaande hul ouers asb?

By Voorbaat dankie

Darryl Allwright

Port Elizabeth

6001

7 Hetta Hager



Lees artikel in die Volksblad

http://www.netwerk24.com/Nuus/Algemeen/n-juweel-verlore-vir-griekwa-afrikaans-20151207

Martie du Toit

Bellville

021 945 3356 / 0835970165





8 Wes-Kaap Nuusbrief no 4 van 2015


"Ferdie van Wyk"

Goeiemôre al die geners,

By hierdie skakel kan julle die laaste nuusbrief van Wes-Kaap vir 2015 lees.

http://www.genza.org.za/index.php/en/publications/western-cape-news-letter

Groete,

Ferdie

Ferdie van Wyk


Centurion





1a Re: [PRESS] Die Burger Oos-Kaap 08 Desember 2015 by "Jaco Strauss" jacostrauss


3 [Press] The Mercury / Daily News Wednesday 9 Dec 2015 by "Aletta Magrieta Quebbemann"

alettaqea9fac

4 [Press] Daily News Tues 8 Dec 2015 by "Aletta Magrieta Quebbemann" alettaqea9fac

5a VAB by "Helena Garner"

5b Re: VAB by "Richard"

5c Re: VAB by "Maureen McCleland" [email protected]

Messages

1a Re: [PRESS] Die Burger Oos-Kaap 08 Desember 2015



Dankie Hester

Interessant dat hulle verwys na sy "kinders". Julle besef dalk nie, maar

hierdie is die man wat sy eie vrou en kinders in Feb 1996 met 'n AK47

doodgeskiet het.

Hy is onlangs na 19 jaar op parool vrygelaat, het weer getrou as

elektrisiën gewerk en homself in die proses doodgeskok

Groete

Jaco

[PRESS] Die Burger Oos-Kaap 08 Desember 2015

Tue Dec 8, 2015 2:07 am (PST) .

Posted by: "Hester Marx"

Sterfgevalle

NEL, Jacques Uyslen. 46 jaar. +Maandag 30 November 2015 in Port Elizabeth.

Eggenote, kinders,

moeder, broers, suster. Gedenkdiens Woensdag 09 Des 2015 11:00 NG Kerk

Uitenhage-Winterhoek,

h/v Malansingel en Langenhovenstraat, Uitenhage. Verassing privaat. (Die

Burger O-Kaap 08/12//2015)


Hester Marx, Loerie

[email protected]



"Hester Marx"

Gelukwensings

ROSS, Danica en Deon. Baie geluk met jul huwelik op 05 Desember 2015. Ma, Pa en Danie.

(Die Burger Oos-Kaap 09/12/2015)

Sterfgevalle

DICKSON, Brian George. 25 jaar. +Maandag 07 Des 2015 op Uitenhage. Ouers, broer, susters.

Begrafnisdiens Donderdag 10 Desember 2015 14:00 NG Kerk Uitenhage-De Mist, Uysstraat,

Uitenhage. Jubileepark Munisipale-begraafplaas. (Die Burger Oos-Kaap 09/12/2015)


VAN DER BANK, Dixie. +Vrydag 04 Desember 2014. Man Casper, kinders, kleinkinders.

Begrafnisdiens Donderdag 10 Des 2015 11:00 Volle Evangelie Kerk PE Noord, Suttonweg, Sidwell.

(Die Burger Oos-Kaap 09/12/2015) Miemie Gardiner Algoa Begrafnisdienste 041 363 4874

Hester Marx, Loerie

[email protected]

3 [Press] The Mercury / Daily News Wednesday 9 Dec 2015



Dag vriende,

QUICKQUIP:- "Tell the truth or someone will tell it for you." - Popular

blogger and author Stephanie KLEIN.

BIRTHS:-KELMNSON nee HEDGES Giles & Louise a boy Charles Joseph (Charlie) *

30 Nov 2015 at St Anne's.

MARRIAGES:-HURRIBUNCE Nirvika & Rishanth PILLAY married at uShaka Marine

World Boma Garden, Durban. (photo).

GREGERSEN Jason & Tuanette VAN DEN BERG married at The Secret Garden,

Pietermaritzburg.(photo)

JONES Andrew & Olivia married at Highbury Chapel in Hillcrest. (photo).

KUBHEKA Thulani & Sanelisiwe married at Z section, Umlazi.(photo)

McARTHUR Hamish & Lara Lee MAGNUS married at Prince's Grant Golf Estate ,

Ballito. (photo).

MONCUR Calvin & Dwayne married at Woodridge, Midlands.(photo)

RAGAVAN Preshen & Santuri married at Collisheen Estate, Ballito. (photo).

ROBERTS Steven & Jenni McGEE married at Baynesfield Estate , Baynesfield

(photo).

ROE Jason & Joelle STIEVENART married at Crinkley Bottom, Durban. (photo)

DEATHS:-ORLANDO:- RIGGINS Matthew (22) was killed and partially eaten by a

alligator after hy waded into a lake to escape the police .(Suspected of

burgling homes in Florida) REUTERS.

ATLANTA:- A Georgia man convicted of killing a friend of his mother was

executed after midninght today by lethal injection in the state prison in

Jackson. He was TERRELL Brian Keith (47) . DAILY NEWS REUTERS, ANA-AP, DAILY

MAIL.

"NORTHERN NATAL LEGENT" Jet Pilot :- DICKS Kobus + 7 Dec 2015 in Western

Cape at age 57 x Leone. Fther of Cobus, Kaleo ,father-in-law of Cristeland

grandfather of 3 .The jed he was flying crashed. SPHELELE NGUBANE.

ABERDEIN Robin John 4 Dec 1929 -----7 Dec 2015. Husband , father and

grandfather (Gummy) to Vida, Stuart and Cindy, Jenny and John, Murray and

Shelley. Grandfather of Georgie, Matt, Nix, Stru, Giff, Pooks, Beth, Dylan,

Lei and Sof. No funeral or memorial . Private family celebration of his

life.

ADDISON David . Memorial on 11 Dec 2015 at 2:30pm at The Addison Farm in

Empangeni.

BADENHORST Ronald Noel + 7 Nov 2015. SHANLEY'S 031 2057644.

CRAEMER Jan (28 years) was murdered last week at Durban Spa Hotel.Body was

found on 3 Dec 2015. DAILY NEWS Bernadette WOLHUTER.

DENT Charles Edward +6 Dec 2015 x + Wendy. Father of Michael and Linda.

Brother of June. Father-in-law of Dale and Alexandra and grandfather of

Nick, Milly and Anthony.; Missed by Directors Members & Staff of Mount

Edgecombe Country Club.

HARTZE nee DE KLERK Katie Francina x + Jake 'Kola' HARTZE. Mother of Ruth,

Noelene, Ingrid and Millicent. Sister of Rennie DE KLERK, Mona AUGUST,

Sinah ESSACK and George DE KLERK. Sister-in-law of Shirley, Louis, Janet and

Dalene. Mother-in-law of Trevor RICHARDS, Dr Donald DOBSON, and + Thomas

BIGGAR. Godmother of Mrs Colleen HARTLEY.Funeral at Durban Christian Centre

Wentworth on 12 Dec 2015 at 11am. OAKLEIGH 031 2059959.

[More Info from DAILY NEWS 8 Dec 2015.

HAYTON Magdalene (Aunty Babe)(Dalene)+ 8 Dec 2015 x + Leslie.She passed into

the arms of her son Tony and husband Leslie. Terry & Greg, on behalf of

Desiree, Gareth, James and Lance announce passing of our mother,

grandmother. Service at Stellawood Chapel Umbilo on 11 Dec 2015 at 11am.

HOWITZ Angela 15 Feb 1952 ----3 Dec 2015 x Michael. Mother to Jason and

Kerry, Grandmother to Tyler, Luke, Connor and Hayley. Mother-in-law to Kelly

& Kate. Memorial at Musgrave Methodist Church St Thomas Rd on 11 Dec 2015 at

11am.

MANDLA Mabuti passed away this weekend. He was a former Rugby Springbok.

MARTENS nee WIMBUSH Gillian Mary 10 Feb 1933 ----3 Dec 2015. Memorial at

Howick Methodist Church on 11 Dec 2015 at 10am. OAKLEIGH 033 3426116.

NAIDOO R.A. x Pushpum. Father of Dhanie, Maggie, Sushie, Suri, + Jay and

Steven. Funeral on 9 Dec 2015. Body will lie in state at Clare Estate

Crematorium Hall from 12noon ---1:30pm. Cremation at 13:45pm.

OELLERMANN Ulrich Johannes 28 April 1929 ---7 Dec 2015 in Wartburg. Husband

, father and grandfather . Funeral 12 Dec 2015 at New Hanover Lutheran

Church at 10am.

PUGIN Marcel Louis . Father, grandfather and brother. Funeral at St

Michael's Catholic Church Redhill on 11 Dec 2015 .Viewing at 10:30am.

Requiem Mass at 11am.

ROODE born HENTSCHELL June Ann 5 June 1944 ----3 Dec 2015 x Chris. Mother

and mother-in-law of Cheryl x Chris. Grandmother of of Cameron from Ballito.

Memorial at Hillary Baptist Church on 11 Dec 2015 at 12h00. DOVES

086002550.

VAN DER WALT Fanie 29 Nov 1943 ----5 Dec 2015. Memorial at The Baptist

Church Durban North on 11 Dec 2015 at 11am.

WANN William Barrie 1935 ----6 Dec 2015 x + Ada. Father of Tracy & Kerry.

Father-in-law of Trevor & Martin. Grandfather of Stephen, David and Holly.

Funeral at Holy Trinity Anglican Church Hillcrest on 17 Dec 2015 at noon.

MEMORIAM:- Geen

Gegroet uit baie warm Durban,

Rita Quebbemann.

4 [Press] Daily News Tues 8 Dec 2015



Dag vriende,

QUICKQUIP:- " The market place rewards ingenuity and service . the greater

the ingenuity and service -the greater the reward. " -John KEHOE

BIRTHS:- ASKEY / FERNANDES Julia & Andrew a boy Kai Daniel * 6 Dec 2015 in

Parklands, on big brothers Luke's birthday. Love from Granny Glynis,

Sharalyn, Andre and Michael.

DEATH:- ADENDORFF Stuart John + 4 Dec 2015 at age 90 years x Rosemary.

Father of Louis, Caryl, Adriaan and Colin. Grandfather of Sandy, Mike,

Elizabeth, Lauren and Daniel. Great-grandfather of Ella and Sydney. Service

at The United Church Hermanus. Private Cremation. NASHCA Funerals Hermanus

028 316 1659.

BRIDGMOHAN Mrs. K (Thara) x + Mohan DURGA. Mother of Jithan, Avesh and

Prashant. Funeral at The Greenwood Park Temple Hall on 8 Dec 2015 from 12:30

--- 15:30pm. Cremation at 17h00 at Clare Estate Crematorium.

CHETTY Dr Devanadan + 28 Nov 2015 at age 79 years x Mani. Father to

Theyagaraj, Krishan and Kalesvaran. Funeral 29 Nov 2015.

KJELVEI Sandra (Sandy) + 17 Nov 2015 in England at age 68. Memorial at St

Olav's Church St Thomas Rd Durban at 10am on 18 Dec 2015. From Reinar and

family.

MARLIN Daphne Maggie + 5 Dec 2015 DOVES 860025500.

MEZHER June Ivy +6 Dec 2015 x Gerald. Mother of Barry and Sharene, Kerry and

Dave. Grandmother of Amy, Liam and Grace;. Requiem Mass at the Blessed

Sacrament Catholic Church Virginia on 9 Dec 2015 at 10am. OAKLEIGH 031

2059959.

RUBINO Mark . Sympathy to Judy,Nick, Clint, Zane. From Paddy, Ken, Mark and

everyone at Goss and Balfe.

SHEA Stanley Douglas . Memorial at Riverside Park Home Pietermaritzburg on

10 Dec 2015 at 2:30pm. OAKLEIGH 033 3426116.

MEMORIAM:- GOVENDER Boysie. 14 years gone now. Remembered by Mom, sisters,

son , nieces and nephews

Mc MASTER Cathy (Cheeks)+ 8 Dec 2014 x Peter. Mother of Jason; Mother of

Lauren.

NAICKER Anna Ruthnam * 8 Dec 1929 Remembered on your Birthday Mom by

Veronica and Neville mother-in-law of John and Cassie, Eunice. Grandmother

of Clarissa .

NAIDOO Daddy 1937 ---3 Dec 2013 x Kogie. Father of Charmaine, Rodney.

Father-in-law of Barb, Sharmala. Grandfather of Jivashen, Shomalen and

Saiyuka.

Gegroet uit baie warm nag in Durban

Rita Quebbemann.

5a VAB


"Helena Garner"

Goeiemore Almal,

Is daar dalk iemand wat nog binnekort VAB toe gaan? Ek het so pas kennis

gemaak met 'n nuwe ERASMUS. Sy grootouers is:

SOURCE

VOLUME NO

REFERENCE

DESCRIPTION

BEGIN DATE

END DATE

MHG

<http://www.national.archsrch.gov.za/sm300cv/smws/sm30ddf0?20151210081149983

8546A&DN=00000001>

0


8546A&DN=00000001>

E1153


8546A&DN=00000001>

ERASMUS, DIRK ARNOLDUS. EGGENOTE JOHANNA MAGDALENA (GEBORE MEYER).


8546A&DN=00000001>

As iemand dalk vir my die Sk kan anstuur sale k dit baie waardeer.

Baie dankie.

Helena Garner

1919


8546A&DN=00000001>

1919


8546A&DN=00000001>

5b Re: VAB


"Richard"

Goeie more Helen

As jy Internet explorer of Firefox gebruik dan gaan jy na www.familysearch.org

Sodra die bladsy oopmaak dan sal jy sien bo kant van die prent van die mense is daar opskrifte : Family

Tree Memories Search Indexing

Plaas die muis op Search en klik op Catalog. die skerm wat dan opkom kyk vir place en tik dan die

volgende in South Africa, Free State en druk due enter knoppie

Die volgende skerm gaan na Southa Africa, Orange Free State – Probate records. Klik op Estate Files,

Orange Free State 1832 – 1989

Aan die linkerkant vn die skerm soek dan die jaar getal (1919) en die verwys nommer. Aan die regterkant

sal jy sien daar is „n kamara, klik op die kamara. Die skerm wat nou opgekom wys vir jou al die leêrs wat

op daardie film is. Ek het nou dit vir jou maklik gemaak deur in die image blokkie tik jy 466 in, Klik op die

pyltjie. As daar „n boodskap op kom “error loading image. Please try later again” maak hom net toe. Aan

die linkerkant is daar „n plus teken onder dit is daar „n minus teken en „n vierkantige blokkie. Klik op die

vierkantige blokkie en daar kan jy die hele leêr aflaai.

Hoop dit help

Richard Wolfaardt


Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 9:12 AM


Subject: [SA-Gen] VAB

Goeiemore Almal,

Is daar dalk iemand wat nog binnekort VAB toe gaan? Ek het so pas kennis gemaak met „n nuwe

ERASMUS. Sy grootouers is:

SOURCE

VOLUME NO

REFERENCE

DESCRIPTION

BEGIN DATE

END DATE

MHG

0

E1153



Baie dankie.

Helena Garner

5c Re: VAB


"Maureen McCleland" [email protected]

Volg hierdie skakel en jy kry dit en die volgende bladsy het sy boedel

ens:https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6LD9-

F7G?imageOrFilmUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F3%3A1%3AS3HY-6LD9-

F7G&i=468&cat=195564Groete,MaureenHierdie familysearch katalogus is 'n goudmyn!

On Thursday, 10 December 2015, 9:12, "'Helena Garner' [email protected] [SAGenealogie]"

<[email protected]> wrote:

Goeiemore Almal,


ERASMUS.

Sy grootouers is:

SOURCE

VOLUME NO

REFERENCE

DESCRIPTION

BEGIN DATE

END DATE

MHG | 0 | E1153 | ERASMUS, DIRK ARNOLDUS. EGGENOTE JOHANNA MAGDALENA (GEBORE

MEYER).


Baie dankie.

Helena Garner





1 Doodloopstraat: Aletta Catharina Jansen van Vuuren 1816-1877 (getrou by "Anrie Hoogendoorn"

2a Primus in Acien by "Frik Venter." hexrivier1234

2b Re: Primus in Acien by "helen muller"

2c Re: Primus in Acien by "Heyns Frederik"

3a Re: VAB by "Helena Garner"

4a Waar is De Hoop? by "Anrie Hoogendoorn"

4b Waar is De Hoop? by "Dorpshuis" altaleroux60

4c Re: Waar is De Hoop? by "Anrie Hoogendoorn"

4d Waar is De Hoop? by "Dorpshuis" altaleroux60

4e Re: Waar is De Hoop? by "Anrie Hoogendoorn"

4f Re: Waar is De Hoop? by "Willeen Olivier" willempie5

5 FW: David MARITZ. by "Johan Vermeulen" vermeulenjpsa

6 [Press] Daily News Friday 4 Dec 2015 CREDITORS.... by "Aletta Magrieta Quebbemann" alettaqea9fac

7 [Press] The Mercury/Daily News Thursday 10 Dec 2015 by "Aletta Magrieta Quebbemann" alettaqea9fac

8 [Press] Independent on Saturday 5 Dec 2015 by "Aletta Magrieta Quebbemann" alettaqea9fac

Messages

1 Doodloopstraat: Aletta Catharina Jansen van Vuuren 1816-1877 (getrou


"Anrie Hoogendoorn"

Goeiemiddag,

Ek sit met 'n doodloopstraat wat ek nie weet watse kant toe nou nie:

Aletta Catharina J. van Vuuren, gebore te Schilpadbeen, distrik George.

Getroud met Marthinus Stephanus Jacobus Petrus Nel (1821-1865)

Oorlede (1877?) te Buffelskloof, Middelburg

Ek is op soek na haar ouers.

Het al die distrik George se dope deurgegaan op Familysearch. Het al haar

sterfkennis bestel en gelees. Het al haar man se sterfkennis en testament

gekry en gelees.

Geen antwoorde nie.

As iemand raad kan gee vir waar ek nog kan gaan soek, sal ek dit baie

waardeer.

Groete,

Anrie

2a Primus in Acien


"Frik Venter." hexrivier1234

Geagte Lede,

Kan een van julle dalk die volgende wat op 'n Graf verskyn verduidelik. Wiki gee nie vir my 'n aanvaarde

ontleding nie.

Primus in Acien

Seën groete

Frik.

Senior Genealogiese navorser van:

Die Vrystaat Venter Familie

Postma Familie

Buytendag Familie

en die Heckroodt Familie.

Tempus neminem manet

2b Re: Primus in Acien


"helen muller"

Dalk beteken dit 1ste of beste in lewe!!


Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 2:53 PM


Subject: [SA-Gen] Primus in Acien

Geagte Lede,

Kan een van julle dalk die volgende wat op 'n Graf verskyn verduidelik. Wiki

gee nie vir my 'n aanvaarde ontleding nie.

Primus in Acien

Seën groete

Frik.



Postma Familie

Buytendag Familie



2c Re: Primus in Acien


"Heyns Frederik"

Vriende

Google dit. (Eerste in aksie) die leuse van 'n Lugmag eenheid.__(12 Eskader)

Groete

Frik Heyns

3a Re: VAB


"Helena Garner"

Hallo Richardx en Maureen,

Baie dankie vir julle terugvoer. Ek het op familysearch.org gaan kyk, maar nie julle prosedure gevolg nie,

toe wys al die jare nie. Dis wonderlik dat mens dit op so ñ manier kan kry!

Groete.

Helena.

Pretoria.




Subject: Re: [SA-Gen] VAB

Goeie more Helen






Die volgende skerm gaan na Southa Africa, Orange Free State - Probate records. Klik op Estate Files,

Orange Free State 1832- 1989


sal jy sien daar is ñ kamara, klik op die kamara. Die skerm wat nou opgekom wys vir jou al die leêrs wat


pyltjie. As daar ñ boodskap op kom "error loading image. Please try later again"• maak hom net toe. Aan

die linkerkant is daar ñ plus teken onder dit is daar ñ minus teken en ñ vierkantige blokkie. Klik op die


Hoop dit help

Richard Wolfaardt

4a Waar is De Hoop?


"Anrie Hoogendoorn"

Goeiemiddag,

Op FamilySearch se argiewe is daar kerkrekords vir De Hoop. Dooprekords

1911-1942 en Trourekords 1956-1971.

As ek 'n Google-soektog doen, kry ek egter geen dorp met die naam nie,

slegs 'n De Hoop-Natuurreservaat.

Dus is my vraag, waar is/was De Hoop?

Groete,

Anrie

4b Waar is De Hoop?


"Dorpshuis" altaleroux60

Anrie

De Hoop is so ongeveer 10 km buitekant Oudtshoorn op die pad na Calitzdorp.

Alta le Roux

Le Roux Dorpshuis/Townhouse Museum

Hoogstraat 146 High Street

OUDTSHOORN

6625

Tel.: 044 272 3676

E-pos: [email protected]

4c Re: Waar is De Hoop?


"Anrie Hoogendoorn"

Baie dankie, Alta.

Ek het op Google Maps gaan kyk en die dorpie is met die Satelliet-weergawe

sigbaar (alhoewel daar geen dorpsnaam by verskyn nie).

Groete,

Anrie

On 10 December 2015 at 15:09, 'Dorpshuis' [email protected]


> Anrie

>

> De Hoop is so ongeveer 10 km buitekant Oudtshoorn op die pad na Calitzdorp.

>

> Alta le Roux

>

> Le Roux Dorpshuis/Townhouse Museum

> Hoogstraat 146 High Street

> OUDTSHOORN

> 6625

> Tel.: 044 272 3676

> E-pos: [email protected]

4d Waar is De Hoop?



Anrie

Dit is nie 'n dorp nie. Dis 'n plaasgemeenskap. Vroeër jare was daar baie meer mense in die omgewing - op

hierdie stadium weet ek nie eers of daar nog dienste gehou word nie. By die skakel hieronder is 'n foto van

die kerkgebou. Die ou pastorie word as 'n gastehuis bedryf.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:De_Hoop,_Oudtshoorn.jpg

Alta



OUDTSHOORN

6625

Tel.: 044 272 3676


4e Re: Waar is De Hoop?


"Anrie Hoogendoorn"

Dankie, Alta!

2015-12-10 15:36 GMT+01:00 'Dorpshuis' [email protected]


> Anrie

>

> Dit is nie 'n dorp nie. Dis 'n plaasgemeenskap. Vroeër jare was daar

> baie meer mense in die omgewing - op hierdie stadium weet ek nie eers of

> daar nog dienste gehou word nie. By die skakel hieronder is 'n foto van

> die kerkgebou. Die ou pastorie word as 'n gastehuis bedryf.

>

> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:

> <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:De_Hoop,_Oudtshoorn.jpg>*De*_

> *Hoop*,_*Oudtshoorn*.jpg

>

> Alta

>

> Le Roux Dorpshuis/Townhouse Museum

> Hoogstraat 146 High Street

> OUDTSHOORN

> 6625

> Tel.: 044 272 3676

> E-pos: [email protected]

4f Re: Waar is De Hoop?


"Willeen Olivier" willempie5

Nou weet ek ook van de Hoop in die Oos Kaap :-).

Ek weet wat jy soek is nie die de Hoop Natuurreservaat, wat om die De Hoop

Dam lê nie. Die mense wat op die plase gebly het wat nou onder die dam is,

het meestal op Roossenekal gedoop.

Groete,

Willeen

Op 10 Desember 2015 3:19 nm. het Anrie Hoogendoorn

[email protected] [SAGenealogie] <[email protected]>

geskryf:

> Goeiemiddag,

>

> Op FamilySearch se argiewe is daar kerkrekords vir De Hoop. Dooprekords

> 1911-1942 en Trourekords 1956-1971.

>

> As ek 'n Google-soektog doen, kry ek egter geen dorp met die naam nie,

> slegs 'n De Hoop-Natuurreservaat.

>

> Dus is my vraag, waar is/was De Hoop?

>

> Groete,

> Anrie

Willeen Olivier

Rooihuiskraal

Kotzé, van Wyk, Olivier, Bosman, en al hulle voorgeslagte ...

5 FW: David MARITZ.


"Johan Vermeulen" vermeulenjpsa

Goeiemiddag almal,

Is daar iemand wat inligting het oor die volgende persone:

David (Dawid) MARITZ..

Gedurende die 1950/60 was hy 'n pastoor in een van die kerke te Linden,

Johannesburg.

Hy was getroud met 'n Johanna Maria NN, die dogter van Elizabeth

Wilhelmina, * MITCHELL Elizabeth is later, 1950's getroud met Johannes

Christoffel Lodewikus VERMEULEN.

Ek sal graag wil bepaal of die pastoor MARITZ en/of sy vrou nog leef en

indien wel waar hulle, tans woonagtig is.

Groete

Johan

6 [Press] Daily News Friday 4 Dec 2015 CREDITORS....



Dag vriende,

CREDITORS /DEBTORS:-

BARKER Guy Walwyn ID 230807 5021 08 4 + 29 Sept 2015 of 5 Sandown Village ,

27 Harvey Rd, Pinetown 3610. ESTATE No 008231/2015. GEORGE ALEXANDER SMITH

for BAKER TILLY MORRISON MURRAY PO Box 1098, Westville 3630.

CRANNA Doreen ID 230704 0039 08 0 + 20 Sept 2015 of MOTHWA Haven, 502 Moore

Rd, Durban. ESTATE No 13430/2015/DBN. DAVID GARDYNE & PARTNERS 12th Floor,

Mercury Lane 320 Anton Lembede Street Durban 4001. PO Box 1434, Durban 4000.

TEL:- 031 2085158.

KHERU Rashnee ID 750628 0136 08 5 + 28 Dec 2014 of 13 Collongwood Rd,

Malvern, Durban x Sunildutt KHERU ID 710221 5131 08 4 . ESTATE No

11761/2015/DBN. ANAND-NEPAUL 9th Floor Royal Towers 30 Dorothy Nyembe

Street, Durban 4001. TEL:- 031 327 4600.

VON FALKENHAUSEN Ingo Mortimer Victor ID 311214 5034 08 8 + 12 Sept 2015 of

G12Garden Grove, St Thomas Rd, Berea, Durban. ESTATE No 013459/2015/DBN.

ROGER ANTHONY DALE ADKINS Unit 6 Lakeside, 6 Derby Downs, University Rd,

Westville 3630.

FIRST / FINAL:-

COSTELLO John Patrick ID 470425 5025 08 5 + 29 April 2015 of 10/11 Moo.1

Tomboi Nameung, Aumper Koh Samui, Suat Thanee, Tailand. ESTATE No 9866/2015.

WARWICK TRUST Postnet Suite 205 Private Bag X 3, Plumstead 7801.

HARISUNKER Hansraj ID 560829 5210 08 8 + 12 Jan 2015 of Flat 11, 47 Wallfern

Close, Redfern Phoenix 4068 x Anila HARISUNKER ID 580310 0107 08 7 .ESTATE

No 06872 /2015/DBN. L.A. KHAN ATTORNEYS Suit 118 Queen City 54 Denis Hurley

Street Durban.

Gegroet uit Durban

Rita Queb.

7 [Press] The Mercury/Daily News Thursday 10 Dec 2015



Dag vriende,

QUICKQUIP:-"Not even computers will replace committees, because committees

buy computers." - Edward Shepherd MEAD.

DEATH:- SANTIAGO:- TOMPKINS Douglas died in hospital at age 72. He was the

founder of North Face outdoor clothing brand ,an adventurer. He died of

hypothermia following a kayaking accident in Chile. Waves capsized his

craft.- Dpa.

BESNARD Magdalena (Lou) 26 Dec 1923 ----7 Dec 2015. Aunt and great-aunt.

Funeral at Bluff Methodist Church on 12 Dec 2015 at 10am.DOVES 0860025500.

DIFFENTHAL Lucy Elaine. Funeral at Kingdom Hall, Jehovah Witness, Wentworth

on 12 Dec 2015. Body will lie in state from 10am. Service at 10:30am

Cremation private. ISIPINGO INC PAM'S 031 9022444

FISHER Karen. Funeral on 11 Dec 2015 at Christ the King Church Wentworth.

Body will lie in state from 11:30am . Mass from 12noon, proceeding to Dudley

Street Cemetery. ISIPINGO INC PAM'S 031 9022444

GRIFFITHS Walter (W.Bro.) Memorial at North Durban Presbyterian Church at

15h00 on 11 Dec 2015. Donation to Highway Hospice. He will be missed by

District Grand Masters Officers and Bretheren of English Freemasonry KZN.

DAILY NEWS.

LAZAR Robin + 8 Dec 2015 in USA x Carol. Father to Ralph, Jamie and Nicky

and Oupa. DAILY NEWS.

MARTIN Mrs. "Gogo" . Jacques, Christine, Veronica, children and

grandchildren. Our hearts and prayers are with you. From Sr Wendy, Duncan,

Sr Renee and " Gogo's" carers Catherine, Thabie, Pretty and Venetia at

Durban North Nursing.

SIMPSON Gerald Simpson 1943 ----8 Dec 2015.Brother to Len, Pauline, Chris

and Dulcie. Memorial at Christ Church Hillcrest ,at bottom of Botha's Hill

on 15 Dec 2015 at 11am. Donation to Hospice. OAKLEIGH 031 2059959.

YARDLEY Roland Harold 3 Oct 1936 -----8 Dec 2015 x Maureen. Father and

grandfather. Memorial at Howick Methodist Small Chapel, Howick on 12 Dec

2015 at 10am. OAKLEIGH 033 3426116.

MEMORIAL:- PILLAY Sivalingam Manikam + 6 Feb 2015. Memorial Service at

Devona Farm, Ladysmith on 13 Dec 2015 from 10:30----11:30am Lunch will be

served.

MEMORIAM:- DESPLACE Michael. 24 years gone now. Remembered by Mom, Paul,

Michelle and family.

Gegroet uit Bedompige Durban

Rita Queb.

8 [Press] Independent on Saturday 5 Dec 2015



Dag vriende,

QUICKQUIP:-" It is better to believe than disbelieve. In so doing you bring

everything to the realm of possibility." - Albert EINSTEIN.

BIRTHS:- BERRY Dave & Lisa a boy Liam Sean.

GORMLEY Michael & Hayley twin girls Sara Jean & Rebecca Jo.

HIPKIN -SACKS Duncan & Lisa a boy Zachary Richard.

WOLNO nee JEFFERYS Gary & Caroline a boy Fynn William.

WRIGHT -MAUJEAN Sage & Caitlyn a boy Shyler Dean.

ANNIVERSARY :-NAIDOO Norman & Maureen. 40 years married. Congratulations to

you from the entire NAIDOO family.

DEATHS:-FERRIN Ernest 1931 --- 2 Dec 2015 . Father of Lorna and Cherly.

Grandfather of Bradley and Matthew. Father-in-law of John. Memorial on 19

Dec 2015 at 11am at 198 Gray Park Rd Brighton Beach. TEL:- Lorna 072 288

8247.

GUERIN nee JANSE VAN RENSBURG Ester Jewel 7 Jan 1932 ----29 Nov 2015 .

Mother .From Michael, Robyn, Christine, Jan and family.

HAWLEY Kenneth 18 Feb 1949 -----30 Nov 2015 (Correction on surname in

Mercury Fr 4 Dec 2015) Partner of Merrill. Father of Jason and Clair.

HEDIN Barbara Daisy 8 June 1942 ----2 Dec 2015. Mother, grand and

great-grandmother. MARTIN'S PMB 033 3421077.

MANLEY Claire Leslie Brandwood + 10 Dec 2014 in UK.Sarah (daughter) TEL:-

0848603247. (date of death as in press).

QUIBELL Marlene 6 June 1949 ----2 Dec 2015 . Mother, sister and

grandmother. From Graham, Gail, Clint, Jessy, Amber and Jordan. ; Memorial

at Queensburgh Methodist Church on 7 Dec 2015 at11am. Cremation private.

SHANLEY'S 031 2057644.

RUBINO Mark 27 April 1957 ---3 Dec 2015 x Judy. Father to Clint, Pam, Nick,

Lindsey, Zane and Cam. Grandfather to Josh, Daniel, Kyla and Samuel.

Memorial at Trinity Methodist Church Umhlanga on 9 Dec 2015. OAKLEIGH 031

2059959.

SHEA Stanley Douglas 5 Feb 1934 -----2 Dec 2015 x Colleen. Father to

Lesley-Anne, Linda and Gavin, Derek and Sandy and Anton. Grandfather to

Lauren, Megan, Carmen, Devon, Ashley and Callan. Great-grandfather to Capri.

Memorial at Riverside Park Home Pietermaritzburg on 10 Dec 2015 at 2:30pm.

OAKLEIGH 033 3426116.

VAN HEERDEN Florence (Flo) + 3 Dec 2015 at Moira's Heaven For The Aged

Pinetown . Remembered and loved by Johnny, Carol, Johann and Sean. Thanks to

Moira BEVERIDGE and staff for their dedication and love to Flo.

MEMORIAM:- BARRETT Marion. Remembered by Tony, Nicole & Kirsten.

HOLLOWAY Roderick. 17 years gone now. From Arline.

LEITCH Pauline . Miss you always Love Malcolm, Claire and Stuart.

MARTIN Steve 4 May 1948 ----5 Dec 2012 x Cheryl. Father of Jody x 2, Ty and

Brooke.; Storm & Sailor, Biggles.

NORRIS nee BRAUNS Dorothy (Dotty). Mother, mother-in-law and grandmother .

Love Nina, Estelle and family.

WOOTTON Darren . Always in our heart.- Mom, Dad, Lisa and Keri.

Gegroet uit Durban

Rita Quebbemann.





1a Re: WEIDEMAN(N)/WYDEMAN GENEALOGIE by "Annelie Els" engelkind2000

2a Waar is De Hoop? by "Dorpshuis" altaleroux60

3 Kotze Urkunden Skakel by "Johan Morgenthal" johan.morgenthal

4 TAB versoek: Marthinus Stephanus Jacobus Petrus Nel (MHG O-1585 - 18 by "Anrie Hoogendoorn"

Messages

1a Re: WEIDEMAN(N)/WYDEMAN GENEALOGIE



Hallo Etienne,

Ek het gister vir Louis Weidemann [*1942] vertel van hierdie boek en hy het

net gemeld dat hy hoop sy vader se data is korrek daarin opgeneem.

Ek gee dit deur.

B10c1d1e1f2g8

Andries Louis * 30 Aug 1919 [ SAG gee dit aan as 1929]

Groetnis.

Annelie.

Pretoria




Subject: [SA-Gen] WEIDEMAN(N)/WYDEMAN GENEALOGIE

Met toestemming van die Lys eienaar, Dennis Pretorius:

Beste Weideman naamgenoot, afstammeling, aangetroude en genealogie navorser,

Die WEIDEMAN(N)/WYDEMAN stamboom boek van die stamvader PAC Weideman is

uiteindelik klaar! Die geslagsregister inligting, stories en foto's vir

die boek is veral oor die laaste elf jaar versamel. Na duisende kilometers

se reis per motor en vliegtuig en honderde ure in argiewe en nog honderde

voor die rekenaar, e-posse en telefoonoproepe, kan ek die boek nou laat

druk! Drie tipes boeke word gedruk, kyk hier onder en ook op bestelvorm vir

besonderhede.

Vir Inhoudsopgawe en Bestelvorm doen navraag per e-pos by E Weideman.

'n Vriendelik versoek: Stuur asseblief hierdie brief aan ander moontlike

belangstellendes, per e-pos en slakkepos.

Vriendelike Groete,

Etienne Weideman

Hoofnavorser van PAC Weideman(n)/Wydeman - Genealogie, Geskiedenis en

Familie-stories.

SOMERSET-WES

e-pos: [email protected]

2a Waar is De Hoop?



Willeen

Net 'n regstelling - hierdie De Hoop by Oudtshoorn is in die Wes-Kaap geleë!

Groete

Alta



OUDTSHOORN

6625

Tel.: 044 272 3676


3 Kotze Urkunden Skakel


"Johan Morgenthal" johan.morgenthal

Goeie More Lyslede

'n Tyd gelede het iemand (ek vermoed dit was Theunis Kotze) 'n skakel

deurgegee van 'n "Urkunden"; wat betrekking het op die vroeë Europese

geskiedenis van die Kotze's (in Duits).

Ek het dit destyds erens "veilig" gestoor wat nou blyk onopspoorbaar

van aard is, trouens ek vermoed dit het tydens oorskakeling na 'n ander

rekenaar deur die gleuwe geval. Nadat ek oor die laaste dag of twee ook

deur die lys se argiewe gekrap het kon ek dit daar ook nie opspoor nie.

Het iemand op die lys nie perdalkies hierdie skakel byderhand sodat ek

dit weer in die hand kan kry vir gebruik oor die stiller dae wat aan die

kom is nie??

Met groot dank en waardering

Johan Morgenthal,

Stellenbosch

4 TAB versoek: Marthinus Stephanus Jacobus Petrus Nel (MHG O-1585 - 18


"Anrie Hoogendoorn"

Goeiemore,

As iemand kans sien en so gaaf sal wees om die volgende dokument te kan

fotografeer, sal ek dit baie waardeer

*DEPOT TAB SOURCE MHG TYPE LEER VOLUME_NO 0 SYSTEM 01 REFERENCE O/1585 PART

1 DESCRIPTION NEL, MARTHINUS STEPHANUS JACOBUS PETRUS. STARTING 1880 ENDING

1880 *As iemand ook 'n navorser kan aanbeveel? Ek het baie dokumente wat ek

daar wil laat opsoek en ek is nie baie tevrede met die laaste twee wat ek

gebruik het nie. En as mens betaal vir iets, moet dit darem eksie perfeksie

wees.

(Eggsa se per-blady-prys sal my vinnig bankrot maak, selfs met die afslag

wat lede kry.)

Groete,

Anrie





1a Re: TAB versoek: Marthinus Stephanus Jacobus Petrus Nel (MHG O-1585 by "Annelie Els"

engelkind2000

1b Re: TAB versoek: Marthinus Stephanus Jacobus Petrus Nel (MHG O-1585 by "Anrie Hoogendoorn"

1c Re: TAB versoek: Marthinus Stephanus Jacobus Petrus Nel (MHG O-1585 by "Richard"

1d Re: TAB versoek: Marthinus Stephanus Jacobus Petrus Nel (MHG O-1585 by "Anrie Hoogendoorn"

2a Re: Primus in Acien by "Piet Prinsloo" spreeu1956

2b Primus in Acien by "Frik Venter." hexrivier1234

3a Fwd: Genealogie Krugel en Hurter - navrae by kaapse Argief by "Dora Opperman"

3b Re: Fwd: Genealogie Krugel en Hurter - navrae by kaapse Argief by "Richard"

3c Re: Fwd: Genealogie Krugel en Hurter - navrae by kaapse Argief by "Dora Opperman"



6 [Press] The Mercury /Daily News Friday 11 Dec 2015 by "Aletta Magrieta Quebbemann" alettaqea9fac

7 [Press] The Mercury /Daily News Friday 11 Dec 2015. CREDITORS ... by "Aletta Magrieta

Quebbemann" alettaqea9fac

Messages

1a Re: TAB versoek: Marthinus Stephanus Jacobus Petrus Nel (MHG O-1585



Hallo Anrie,

eGGSA se prys vir `n SK is minder as die helfde van wat hulle by die mense vra ….

http://ancestor.co.za/

Ek wat baie gereeld by die Argief besoek gaan aflê en my tyd tot op die laaste minuut al uitgewerk het

wonder hoeveel is jy dan bereid om `n navorser te betaal… ???

Onthou net:-

1. Die tyd aan die admin… mens moet vir elke dokument wat aangevra word `n strokie invul.

2. Die tyd aan die soek vir die betrokke dokument wat afgeneem moet word.

3. Die tyd om die boekbundel reg te kry om die foto te neem… baie kan nie met net een persoon gedoen

word nie.

4. Die tyd om die fotos weer uit te sorteer

5. Die tyd op die internet om die fotos per epos, ens te stuur… internet is nie verniet nie.

6. Die kostes om Argief toe te ry en terug….

Ek sou aanraai dat u self die fotos van die TAB boedels tussen die wat op die FamilySearch webblad is

gaan soek om geld te spaar.

By die skakel is die een wat jy soek…. Die image is 394…..

https://familysearch.org/search/film/007805267?imageOrFilmUrl=%2Fsearch%2Ffilm%2F007805267

<https://familysearch.org/search/film/007805267?imageOrFilmUrl=%2Fsearch%2Ffilm%2F007805267&i

=393&cat=188051> &i=393&cat=188051

Groetnis.

Annelie.

Pretoria.



To: sagenealogie

Subject: [SA-Gen] TAB versoek: Marthinus Stephanus Jacobus Petrus Nel (MHG O-1585 - 1880)

Goeiemore,

As iemand kans sien en so gaaf sal wees om die volgende dokument te kan fotografeer, sal ek dit baie

waardeer

DEPOT TAB

SOURCE MHG

TYPE LEER

VOLUME_NO 0

SYSTEM 01

REFERENCE O/1585

PART 1

DESCRIPTION NEL, MARTHINUS STEPHANUS JACOBUS PETRUS.

STARTING 1880

ENDING 1880

As iemand ook 'n navorser kan aanbeveel? Ek het baie dokumente wat ek daar wil laat opsoek en ek is nie

baie tevrede met die laaste twee wat ek gebruik het nie. En as mens betaal vir iets, moet dit darem eksie

perfeksie wees.

(Eggsa se per-blady-prys sal my vinnig bankrot maak, selfs met die afslag wat lede kry.)

Groete,

Anrie

1b Re: TAB versoek: Marthinus Stephanus Jacobus Petrus Nel (MHG O-1585


"Anrie Hoogendoorn"

Annelie,

Baie dankie. Ek moet erken ek het bietjie vergeet van die

Transvaalse boedels wat ook daar beskikbaar is (dit terwyl ek gister in die

Kaapse en Vrystaatse boedels daar gesoek het). My brein sukkel vandag.

Ek het nog nie voorheen van ancestor.co.za gehoor nie.

Ek besef dit kos tyd en moeite. Die een navorser se prys was R165 per uur,

met 'n minimum van vier ure per projek (dus sou enige navraag ten minste

R660 kos en dan telkens R165 ekstra vir elke ekstra uur (of gedeelte

daarvan).

Dit was uiters redelik en selfs goedkoop. Selfs teen R200 per uur, sou die

persoon nog steeds goedkoper as Eggsa gewees het, tensy ek drastiese foute

in my berekenings gemaak het.

Nogmaals dankie vir die uitwys van die FamilySearch-boedels.

Groete,

Anrie

1c Re: TAB versoek: Marthinus Stephanus Jacobus Petrus Nel (MHG O-1585


"Richard"

Goeie middag Anrie

Het jy al op Familysearch gekyk of dit nie daar is nie?

Richard Wolfaardt


Sent: Friday, December 11, 2015 10:41 AM

To: sagenealogie


Goeiemore,


waardeer

DEPOT TAB SOURCE MHG TYPE LEER VOLUME_NO 0 SYSTEM 01 REFERENCE O/1585 PART 1

DESCRIPTION NEL, MARTHINUS STEPHANUS JACOBUS PETRUS. STARTING 1880 ENDING

1880 As iemand ook 'n navorser kan aanbeveel? Ek het baie dokumente wat ek daar wil laat opsoek en ek

is nie baie tevrede met die laaste twee wat ek gebruik het nie. En as mens betaal vir iets, moet dit darem

eksie perfeksie wees.


Groete,

Anrie

1d Re: TAB versoek: Marthinus Stephanus Jacobus Petrus Nel (MHG O-1585


"Anrie Hoogendoorn"

Haai, Richard,

Annelie het my gewys dat daar Sterfkennisse op FamilySearch beskikbaar is.

Dit is bietjie ingewikkeld, want dis nie deur die "Records" beskikbaar nie,

maar deur die "Catalog". Mens moet 'n graad hê om daardie plek te kan

navigeer.

Maar ek het dit gekry, baie dankie.

Groete,

Anrie

2a Re: Primus in Acien


"Piet Prinsloo" spreeu1956

Dag Almal

As mens weet wie se graf is dit kan jy dit in konteks plaas. Acien lyk vir my na n pleknaam

Groetnis.

Piet Prinsloo

2b Primus in Acien



Geagte Lede

Ek dink Frik Heyns se antwoord is korrek, die graf is van 'n jong Lugmag Lid wat in die nuwe begraafplaas

Voortrekkerhoogte begrawe is.

Hierdie leuse kom voor op 12 Eskader se wapen (Canberra's) wat op LMB Waterkloof was maar nie meer

bestaan nie, ontbind 1990

Dank aan al die lede wat in insae gegee het en veral Frik Heyns.

Seën groete

Frik.



Postma Familie

Buytendag Familie



3a Fwd: Genealogie Krugel en Hurter - navrae by kaapse Argief


"Dora Opperman"

Navraag KRUGEL/KRUGER

Middag lyslede, ek het onlangs die navraag gekry vanaf Kotie Prinsloo,

Pretoria, en sal dit waardeer indien iemand in die omgewing van die Kaapse

Argief haar miskien kan help, in ruil vir haar dienste in Pretoria.

Inligting kan aan my gestuur word of direk aan Kotie by

[email protected].

Byvoorbaat dankie

groete

From: Thula Sizwe <[email protected]>

Date: 2015-12-09 14:11 GMT+02:00

Subject: Genealogie Krugel en Hurter - navrae by kaapse Argief

To: dora opperman <[email protected]>

More Dora

Dankie vir jou oproep gister, was lekker om weer met jou te praat..

Ek is gewillig om te onderhandel, kan Pretoria Argief toe gaan vir iemand

om navrae te lewer vir hulle moeite, of betaal vir SKs. Ek wil net nie

vir die mense namens wie ek soek „n helse rekening laat oploop nie. Die

ongebaande wee is maar soms krom.

Ek soek na die onderstreepte goed:

d5 Jacobus Arnoldus HURTER *ca 1821 ˜Simonstad

8/7/1821

x Colesberg 7/9/1846 Johanna Louisa REINHARD

e1, e2 gedoop Colesberg, daarna vanaf e3, Cradock

e6 *Helena Josina **29/12/1856 †Cradock

30/8/1926, 70jr

“Helena Josina „KRUGER”

Haar Kleinseun Alphonso O‟Neill, meld dood

aan.

Sy was 9 mnde siek met hartkwaal en

“married”

Hy meld haar man as *PW KRUGEL*

Adres van kleinseun Bremerstr 9, Cradock

x Pieter Willem KRUGEL

Hy leef nog 1926, sy was getroud met dood

(Ek dink hy was dalk Kaapse Rebel, wat

toe Kruger geword

het, om vervolging te ontkom,maar dalk

fouteer ek!?)

*SKs van Kaapse Argief wat ek nodig het, dink

ek, is*

A MOOC

1-. Andries Hendrik Krugel *12/10/1867

Vlgs Gisa Begrafnis CD: †1/9/1948

Ώ

Hoof – Begraafplaas Riebeeck-Wes

Vir hom het ek nie SK nie

x* HESTER WOUTRINA (HW LOUW) *

* † 1927 *

* Ref KAB 14587*

2-. Andries Hendrik Kriegel

*x Johanna Sophia VAN HEERDEN †1860*

*KAB 6819*

Volume 6/9/90

3-. Andries Hendrik Krugel

Inventory

*Ref KAB 18, filed 1874*

Volume 13/1/297


*x Hester Margaretha JACOBS*

Inventory

*Ref 32, filed 1882*

Volume 7/1/425

B CSC

Volume 2/6/1/66

*Ref 67, filed 1876*

Motion – In the matter of Andries Hendrik

Krugel and Pieter

Willem Krugel

versus Johannes Hendrik Jacobus van Heerden,

an insolvent

*Ek wil graag die 2 Krugels identifiseer he,*

Wat ek kan kry, moet ek dan versoen met:

fx Andries Hendrik KRUGER *Cradock 27/5/1897

Hier verander van na KRUGER

Werk as Drukker †Pretoria

x Cradock Anna Louisa VAN DEVENTER

† Pretoria

d/v Andries van Deventer & Anna

Louisa VOS

gx Anna Louisa Kruger

--



Woodhead Rylaan,

Humewood

Port Elizabeth

6001

Cell: 0828768371

[email protected]

3b Re: Fwd: Genealogie Krugel en Hurter - navrae by kaapse Argief


"Richard"

Goeie middag

Het jy op familysearch gekyk of die sk‟s nie daar is nie?

Richard


Sent: Friday, December 11, 2015 3:43 PM

To: sagenealogie

Subject: [SA-Gen] Fwd: Genealogie Krugel en Hurter - navrae by kaapse Argief

Navraag KRUGEL/KRUGER

Middag lyslede, ek het onlangs die navraag gekry vanaf Kotie Prinsloo, Pretoria, en sal dit waardeer indien

iemand in die omgewing van die Kaapse Argief haar miskien kan help, in ruil vir haar dienste in Pretoria.

Inligting kan aan my gestuur word of direk aan Kotie by [email protected].

Byvoorbaat dankie

groete

From: Thula Sizwe <[email protected]>

Date: 2015-12-09 14:11 GMT+02:00

Subject: Genealogie Krugel en Hurter - navrae by kaapse Argief

To: dora opperman <[email protected]>

More Dora

Dankie vir jou oproep gister, was lekker om weer met jou te praat..

Ek is gewillig om te onderhandel, kan Pretoria Argief toe gaan vir iemand om navrae te lewer vir hulle

moeite, of betaal vir SKs. Ek wil net nie vir die mense namens wie ek soek „n helse rekening laat oploop

nie. Die ongebaande wee is maar soms krom.

Ek soek na die onderstreepte goed:

d5 Jacobus Arnoldus HURTER *ca 1821 ˜Simonstad 8/7/1821

x Colesberg 7/9/1846 Johanna Louisa REINHARD

e1, e2 gedoop Colesberg, daarna vanaf e3, Cradock

e6 Helena Josina *29/12/1856 †Cradock 30/8/1926, 70jr

“Helena Josina „KRUGER”

Haar Kleinseun Alphonso O‟Neill, meld dood aan.

Sy was 9 mnde siek met hartkwaal en “married”

Hy meld haar man as PW KRUGEL

Adres van kleinseun Bremerstr 9, Cradock

x Pieter Willem KRUGEL

Hy leef nog 1926, sy was getroud met dood

(Ek dink hy was dalk Kaapse Rebel, wat toe Kruger geword

het, om vervolging te ontkom,maar dalk fouteer ek!?)

SKs van Kaapse Argief wat ek nodig het, dink ek, is

A MOOC

1-. Andries Hendrik Krugel *12/10/1867

Vlgs Gisa Begrafnis CD: †1/9/1948

Ώ Hoof – Begraafplaas Riebeeck-Wes

Vir hom het ek nie SK nie

x HESTER WOUTRINA (HW LOUW)

† 1927

Ref KAB 14587

2-. Andries Hendrik Kriegel

x Johanna Sophia VAN HEERDEN †1860

KAB 6819

Volume 6/9/90


Inventory

Ref KAB 18, filed 1874

Volume 13/1/297


x Hester Margaretha JACOBS

Inventory

Ref 32, filed 1882

Volume 7/1/425

B CSC

Volume 2/6/1/66

Ref 67, filed 1876

Motion – In the matter of Andries Hendrik Krugel and Pieter

Willem Krugel

versus Johannes Hendrik Jacobus van Heerden, an insolvent

Ek wil graag die 2 Krugels identifiseer he,

Wat ek kan kry, moet ek dan versoen met:

fx Andries Hendrik KRUGER *Cradock 27/5/1897

Hier verander van na KRUGER

Werk as Drukker †Pretoria

x Cradock Anna Louisa VAN DEVENTER

† Pretoria

d/v Andries van Deventer & Anna Louisa VOS

gx Anna Louisa Kruger



Woodhead Rylaan,

Humewood

Port Elizabeth

6001

Cell: 0828768371

[email protected]

3c Re: Fwd: Genealogie Krugel en Hurter - navrae by kaapse Argief


"Dora Opperman"

Middag Richard,

Nee, en ongelukkig is ek kniediep in 'n Opperman navraag, maar indien

niemand kan help nie, sal ek probeer soek

Dankie

2015-12-11 15:58 GMT+02:00 'Richard' [email protected] [SAGenealogie] <

[email protected]>:

> Goeie middag

>

> Het jy op familysearch gekyk of die sk‟s nie daar is nie?

>

> Richard

>

> *From:* mailto:[email protected] <[email protected]>

> *Sent:* Friday, December 11, 2015 3:43 PM

> *To:* sagenealogie <[email protected]>

> *Subject:* [SA-Gen] Fwd: Genealogie Krugel en Hurter - navrae by kaapse

> Argief

>

> Navraag KRUGEL/KRUGER

>

> Middag lyslede, ek het onlangs die navraag gekry vanaf Kotie Prinsloo,

> Pretoria, en sal dit waardeer indien iemand in die omgewing van die Kaapse

> Argief haar miskien kan help, in ruil vir haar dienste in Pretoria.

>

>

> Inligting kan aan my gestuur word of direk aan Kotie by

> [email protected].

>

> Byvoorbaat dankie

> groete

(Knip)



"Hester Marx"

Sterfgevalle

ANDERHOLD, Leonard Gerhardus. +Sondag 06 Des 2015. Eggenote Westa, seuns Eugene, Kirsten en

Heinrich,

skoondogters Johanette, Marlise en Cheryl, kleinkinders. Begrafnisdiens Vrydag 11 Des 2015 10:00

Avbob-kapel,

Noordeinde, h/v Hancockstraat en Harrowerweg. Forest Hill-begraafplaas. (Die Burger Oos-Kaap

10/12/2015)

Tereza Lendia AVBOB Port Elizabeth 041 484 2731

POULTER, Quintin (Bully). *20 Januarie 1975. +Sondag 06 Desember 2015 na kort siekbed. Ouers Geoff,

Berna,

suster Lizelle. Begrafnis Vrydag 11 Desember 2015 13:00 NG Kerk Uitenhage De Mist, Uysstraat,

Uitenhage.

Forest Hill-begraafplaas, Port Elizabeth. (Die Burger O-Kaap 10/12/2015) Deus Curat Begrafnisdienste

041 991 1835

Hester Marx, Loerie

[email protected]



"Hester Marx"

Sterfgevalle

MILBOROUGH, Henrietta Nancy. 94 jaar. Begrafnisdiens Saterdag 12 Desember 2015 10:00

Roselane Congregational Kerk. (Die Burger Oos-Kaap 11/12/2015)

Van Willing Begrafnisdienste 041 988 1919

STIEMIE, Maria Susanna. +Maandag 07 Des 2015. Dogter, seuns, kleinkinders, agterkleinkinders.

Diens Vrydag 11 Desember 2015 10:00 ACVV Valleihof Tehuis vir Bejaardes, Kirkwood.

(Die Burger Oos-Kaap 11/12/2015) Nosipho Mgengo AVBOB Uitenhage 041 922 8066

VAN DYK, Leonard Reginald (Doepie). 76 jaar. (Oud-landdros van Uitenhage). +Vrydag 04 Des 2015

op Colchester. Kinders, kleinkinders. Gedenkdiens Dinsdag 15 Desember 2015 10:00 NG Kerk

Sondagsriviermond, Colchester. Verassing privaat. (Die Burger Oos-Kaap 11/12/2015)


VOS, Anna Susanna. +Dinsdag 08 Des 2015. Kinders, kleinkinders. Roudiens Saterdag 12 Des 2015

11:00 NG Gemeente Sionsrand, Bramhopestraat, Westering. Verassing privaat.

(Die Burger Oos-Kaap 11/12/2015) Anneke Geel AVBOB Newtonpark 041 363 0041

Hester Marx, Loerie

[email protected]

6 [Press] The Mercury /Daily News Friday 11 Dec 2015



Dag vriende,

QUICKQUIP:- "I Can't understand it. I can't even understand the people who

can understand it." - Queen Juliana of Netherlands.

BIRTHS:- SAN FRANSISCO:- MAYER Marissa (40) & Zachary BOGUE twin girls * 10

Dec 2015. Sister for their 3year old son. Narissa is Chief executive at

Yahoo.DAILY NEWS

ANNIVERSARIES:- SMITH Glen & Mary Ann happy 40th anniversary. From Children

and grandchildren.

DEATHS:-WASHINGTON:-The finance chief for the Islamic State militant group

was killed in an air strike in northern Iraq. He was Abu SALEH. DAILY NEWS.

COX Stanley + 10 Dec 2015 in St Augustine's Hospital x Sheila. ; In memory

of Stan. Cyril and Shirley.; Uncle of Ray, Jeanette, Robin, Noelene and

families.

DENT Charles Edward . Funeral at St Michael's Anglican Church Umhlanga on

14 Dec 2015 at 11am. OAKLEIGH 031 2059959.

DE VILLIERS Lesley Gayle + 10 Dec 2015 x Tony. Mother of Julie and Chris,

Marilyn and David. Grandmother of Belinda, Benjamin, Rachael, Emly, Kate,

Grace and Elizabeth.

FINE Barry Eldred + 10 Dec 2015 in Hillcrest x + Estelle. Brother to Wendy.

Father to Barry, Mark and Kenton. Grandfather of Paige, Dillon, Klara and

Blake. Donation to SPCA.

KAFAAR Merle Theresa of Newlands East. Funeral on 12 Dec 2015 at The Holy

Family Parish Catholic Church Newlands East. Viewing at 8am. Service at 9am.

Cremation private. ISIPINGO INC PAM'S 031 9022444.

KERR Melanie Karola Rita 19 July 1928 ----6 Dec 2015 x + Ned KERR . Requiem

Mass at St Joseph's Scolastics Church Cedara on 17 Dec 2015 at 10am.

OAKLEIGH 033 3426116.

LEVANG Leif Eric 29 Dec 1963 -----8 Dec 2015 after long illness. Son of

Nora. Brother of Rolf, Norman, Jean-Anne and Annette .Memorial at Howick

Community Church Howick on 14 Dec 2015 at 10am. OAKLEIGH 033 3426116.

MARAIS Charles Petrus + 4 Dec 2015 x Elaine. Father of Bruce, Chris, Peter,

Charmaine, Marion. Grandfather (Oupa) . Brother of Kleintjie and girls & +

Thomas. Son of + Felicia & Jan MARAIS . Memorial at The Church of Christ

Umbilo on 14 Dec 2015 at 13h00. Cremation private .SHANLEY'S 031 2057644.

MORRISON-YOUNG John 1929 ----2015. Memorial on 19 Dec 2015 at 2:30pm at

Lambert Rd Baptist Church, Morningside Durban Donation to Church. TEL:- 031

2088580.

SCHWARTZ Amanda 1 Nov 1961 ----8 Dec 2015 after 3 months illness. Daughter

of Ella EDWARDS. Mother of Tameryn OLIVIER. Wife of Carl SCHWARTZ. Brother

(as in press) of Charl SLABBERT. Funeral at OAKLEIGH Funeral Home Chapel

Pietermaritzburg on 15 Dec 2015 at 11am. OAKLEIGH 033 3426116.

SEETHAL Judy Paulette of Wentworth. Funeral at Christ The King Parish

Wentworth on 12 Dec 2015. Viewing at 10am. Service at 10:30am. Proceeding to

Stellawood Cemetery. SIPINGO INC PAM'S 031 9022444.

VAN DER WALT Fanie 29 Nov 1943 ----5 Dec 2015. Memorial at The Baptist

Church Durban North on 11 Dec 2015 at 11am.

VAN HEERDEN Florence . In Memory from your friends May, Alice, Elva, Hester,

Dorren and Shirley.

WANN William Barrie 1935 ----6 Dec 2015 x Ada. Father to Tracy & Kerry.

Father-in-law to Trevor and Martin. Grandfather to Stephen, David and Holly.

Funeral at Holy Trinity Anglican Church Hillcrest on 17 Dec 2015 at noon.

MEMORIAL:- NAIDOO Dershan (Dean) 1987 ---28 Feb 2015. Son of Douglas &

Priscy . Brother of Yovina. Yearly Memorial at R B Chetty Hall Phoenix on 20

Dec 2015 at 11:30----12:30pm. Lunch will be served from 12:45 and therafter

tea/coffee and saviuries.

MEMORIAMS:-NAIDOO John Dwain 11 Dec 1980 ----14 Sept 2012.Your Birthday .Son

of Dan & Nan NAIDOO.

RONNIE KISTEN (Kasaval MUNSAMY) 10 March 1934 -----11 Dec 2014 . Husband,

father and grandfather of Dolly, Jullian, Rochelle & Tyrelle.

Gegroet uit baie bedompige Durban waar die weer om half elf vannag bietjie

rammel en paar druppels geval het.

Rita Queb.

7 [Press] The Mercury /Daily News Friday 11 Dec 2015. CREDITORS ...



Dag vriende,

QUICKQUIP:- "The time is right to do the right thing." - American minister

and civil rights leader Martin Luther KING jr (1929 ---1968)

CREDITORS /DEBTORS:-

BECKER Carole ID 381224 0399 18 3 + 19 Oct 2015 of 1 B G S Mews, 27

Chancellor Ave, Durban. ESTATE No 14574/2015. FNB FIDUCIARY (PTY) LTD PO

Box 212 Westville. 4320 Taz MAHOMED. TEL:- +27 87730 2560

BIRNIE Maria Theodora Jacoba ID 341226 0019 08 2 + 9 July 2015 of 54

Sunwave Resort, Bendingord South Port Durban x John BIRNIE ID 280311 5049 18

6 . ESTATE No 15188/2015/DBN. FNB FIDUCIARY (PTY) LTD PO Box 212 Westville.

4320 Noleen KWAME +27 87730 2560

COETZER Pierre Christopher ID 510629 5045 08 2 + 8 Nov 2015 of Flat 40

Parkdale, 61 Valleyview Rd, Morningside and Orchard Lee Home, Clyde Ave

Durban. ESTATE No 14719/2015/DBN. EWAN WILLIAM CAMERON c/o CHRISTOPHER,

WALTON & TATHAM INC Suite 4, Lighthouse Mall, 14 Cartwell Drive, Umhlanga

Rocks, Box 1845, Umhlanga Rocks 4320.

HALLIDAY Arthur Ronald ID 760412 5131 08 8 + 4 April 2015 of 1 Maryland Ave,

Glenashley Durban 4051 x Catherine Louise HALLIDAY ID 700912 0055 08 6.

ESTATE No none given. EDUARD DE LANGE ATTORNEYS 1st Floor, East Block Manlyn

Square cnr Lois & Gobie Ave, Menlyn, Pretoria. Email:->

[email protected] < DAILY NEWS .

HERHOLDT Rudolph Jacobus ID 430906 5026 08 1 + 20 May 2015 x in community of

property Susanna Juliana HERHOLDT ID 460128 0016 08 1 of 5 Middleton Rd

Winkelspriut. ESTATE No 14858/2015. FNB FIDUCIARY (PTY) LTD PO Box 212

Westville. 4320 Shanaz SINGH TEL:- +27 87730 2560

KISTASAMY Benjamin ID 570211 5126 08 4 + 17 Feb 2014 of 161 Lotus Rd,

Springfield, Durban x Rookmoney KISTASAMY ID 591004 0139 08 6. ESTATE

No14690/2015/DBN. JACKSON & AMEEN PO Box 3350, Durban 4000. DAILY NEWS .

JANSEN Bargardus ID 320318 5022 08 1 + 27 June 2014 of Unit 201, Park View,

17 Boscombe Place, Marine Parade, Durban. ESTATE No 15186/2015/DBN. FNB

FIDUCIARY (PTY) LTD PO Box 27511, Greenacres 6057.

KHUZWAYO Ngewe Ishmael ID 330610 5260 08 5 + 15 July 2010 of 7 Crocodile

Close, Richards Bay x Thabile Veronica KHUZWAYO ID 470324 0581 08 7. ESTATE

No 2642/2015/DBN. HEIN BENADE Block C, Equity Park, 257 Brooklyn Rd,

Brooklyn

LAKE Digby John ID 370612 5050 08 7 + 9 Oct 2015 of 13 Reins, Le Domaine,

Hillcrest x Kathleen Elizabeth LAKE ID 410921 0035 08 0. ESTATE No

14859/2015. FNB FIDUCIARY (PTY) LTD PO Box 212 Westville. 4320 Shanaz

SINGH TEL:- +27 87730 2560

MEINEIKE Michael ID 310802 5158 08 8 + 2 Sept 2015 of 1 Quail Lane,

Amberfield , Howick. ESTATE No 8166/2015. FNB FIDUSARY (PTY)LTD PO Box

13527 Cascades 3202

SHANGE Silwayiphi Kufawezintaba ID 650208 5454 08 9 + 12 Feb 2015 of

Hluthankungu Area, Umzinto. ESTATE No 7335/2015/DBN. MARLAN NAIDOO &

PARTNERS 489 Arena Park Drive, Arena Park Chatsworth PO Box 561203

Chatsworth 4030.

SLABBERT Jan Johannes ID 370704 5031 08 3 + 14 Aug 2014 of Plot 2204

Shepstone Ave, Margate KZN x Louis Philippus SLABBERT ID 410504 0017 08 2 .

ESTATE No.27836/2014/KZN. STREICHER-DE SWARDT PO Box 4077 Secunda 2302. >

[email protected] < TEL:- 017 6344668

VILJOEN Barbara May ID 391105 0082 08 5 + 16 Sept 2015 of Mooi Hawens, 3

Middleton Rd, Winkelspruit. ESTATE No 14599/2015. FNB FIDUCIARY (PTY) LTD

PO Box 212 Westville. 4320. Taz Mahomed TEL:- +27 87730 2560.

WEBBER Margaret Thelma ID 240726 0019 18 2 + 11 Oct 2015 of Anerley Haven,

36 Ocean Drive North, Anerley Port Shepstone 4230 KZN. ESTATE No

15113/2015/DBN. J V HART CC PO Box 11751 Dorpspruit 3206. TEL:-033 3450322

FAX:-033 345 1993. Email:-> [email protected] < REF:- J.V.

Hart/kh/Webb/01E.

WOOD Mervyn Roy ID 420609 5019 08 8 + 30 May 2014 of 2 Stanwick Rd,

Amanzimtoti. ESTATE No 15570/15. J V HART CC PO Box 11751 Dorpspruit 3206.

TEL:-033 3450322 FAX:-033 345 1993. Email:-> [email protected] < REF:-

J.V. Hart/Wood01E.

FIRST / FINAL:-

BALDEO Dewchund ID 330710 5263 08 7 + 12 July 2003 of 26 Road 723, Montford,

Chatsworth x Dayawanthee BALDEO ID 360708 0394 08 2. ESTATE No.

6739/2015/DBN. MARLAN NAIDOO & PARTNERS 489 Arena Park Drive, Arena Park

Chatsworth PO Box 561203 Chatsworth 4030.

BRINKWART Heinz Oscar ID 231116 5069 08 8 + 3 Oct 2014 of Suite 6, Rob Roy 3

Crescent, Hillcrest, Botha's Hill 3610. ESTATE No 025614/2014/PMB. NEIL

GERBER c/o BAKER TILLY MORRISON MURRAY PO Box 1098 Westville 3630. TEL:- 031

2675300. FAX:- 031 2671838 DAILY NEWS .

ELLIS Colin Edward ID 400618 5412 08 0 + 16 March 2012 x Ruth Esmarelda

ELLIS ID 540625 0124 08 2 of 506 Redfern Flat, 54 Alfred Rd, New Germany

3610. ESTATE No 15163/2013/DBN. D M GOVENDER ATTORNEYS PO Box 5528, Durban

4000. DAILY NEWS .

FRY Agnes ID 200220 0040 08 1 + none of Amberglen Klaarkloof Rd, Howick.

ESTATE No 21668/2014/PMB . C N PHILLIPS PO Box 193, Eshowe 3815. >

[email protected] < TEL:- 035 4744481.

GROBLER Johannes Hermanus ID 370429 5050 08 6 +23 July 2015 of Unit 7

Normandy ,Le Domaine, Acutts Drive, Hillcrest x Barbara Amy GROBLER ID

491213 5004 08 5 (as in press). ESTATE No 005965/2015. McGLASHAN McKEOWN

INC SUE NICOL Suite 5, 22 On Main, 22 Old Main Rd Hillcrest 3610. Email>

[email protected] <.

IAN GRANT MAC RAE ID 220617 5012 08 8 + 3 May 2015 of 2 Olive Rd Freeland

Park, Scottburgh.ESTATE No 003787/2015. ETIENNE D VLOK INCORPORATED

PHILLIPS & OSMOND PO Box 7309, Westgate 1734. TEL:- 011 6646330. DAILY

NEWS.

JOHNSON Owen John ID Passport No 3207 26502 3083 +18 Oct 2013 of 43 Ryder

Drive, St Andrews Village, Mount Edgecombe Country Club 4300. ESTATE No

16685/2013 /DBN. JANINE RACHEL BAMBER as nominee of Moore STEPHENS PO Box

11800, Marine Drive 4056. DAILY NEWS .

JONKMAN Roel ID 430204 5110 18 2 + 22 April 2015 of 1 Pointsettia Place, 90

Barrow Street Umkomaas KZN. ESTATE No 3572/2015/PMB. EWING TAX SERVICES

(PTY) LTD 28 Old Main Rd, Hillcrest 3610. TEL:- 031 755937.

LOUW Abraham Petrus ID 370326 5080 08 1 + none x Elsie Johanna KOTZE ID

420215 0076 08 9 of Nkwazipark Farm R102, Darnall. ESTATE No

001009/2015/DBN. CAPIOBUZZ LEGAL SERVICES PO Box 927, Hyper By The Sea 4053.

TEL:- 072 2004045.

MNGADI Sani Moses ID 370202 5182 08 8 + 27 Aug 2013 of D46 Ubombo Rd Kwa

Mashu 4359 x Nomakosazana Ruthwendy MNGADI ID 510215 0236 08 0. ESTATE No

31328/2014/DBN. ER BROWNE & SONS 73 Musgrave Rd, Durban 4001. TEL:- 031

202 7122.

MOODLEY Manogarie ID 441012 0439 08 5 + 3 Feb 2014 of Flat 1405, Kensington,

Morningside, Durban. ESTATE No 28560/2014/DBN. Y K MOODLEY 27 Nuggett Rd

Reservoir Hills 4091. > [email protected] <. TEL:- 079 5007120.

MOODLEY Uneshree ID 850515 0150 08 0 + 29 Aug 2014 of 4 Stardust Ave

Shallcross 4093. ESTATE No 30786/2014/DBN. M.D. FRASER PO Box 21384,

Pumula 4225. TEL:- 082 460 3424. DAILY NEWS .

NIENABER Hermina Jacoba ID 230509 0010 08 4 + 7 May 2010 of Jubileum

Tehuis vir Bejaardes, Afrikaner Street , Vryheid. ESTATE No.6921/2010. FNB

FIDUCIARY (PTY) LTD PO Box 12619 Brandhof ,9324. Vinette KOCK TEL:- +27

87343 1814.

RAMCHARAN Pritum Prahlad ID 671127 5025 08 4 + 5 Feb 2015 of 12 Bunting

Ave, Bakerton Springs. ESTATE No. 5496/2015. JUTHIKA HARIRAM & ASSOCIATES PO

Box 562474 Chatsworth 4030. TEL:- 031 4033153.

ROTHAUG Bernd ID 430930 5148 18 2 + 29 Jan 2015 of 25 Burdington Rd,

Seaview, Durban. ESTATE No. 003056/2015/DBN. MARLAN NAIDOO & PARTNERS 489

Arena Park Drive, Arena Park Chatsworth PO Box 561203 Chatsworth 4030.

SATZMANN Shirley Helene ID 300421 0046 08 1 + 8 Nov 2014 of 117 Garden

Grove, 211 St Thomas Rd, Berea Durban. ESTATE No.7324/2015. FNB TRUST

SERVICES PO Box 212 Westville 3630.Keshnie REDDY TEL:- + 27 87 730 2563.

ZWANE Tobhi Doris ID 430328 0135 08 2 + 26 June 2010 of D 1823 Umlazi.

ESTATE No 29702/2014/DBN. CHAPMAN DYER INCORPORATED 7th Floor , 300

Anton Lembede Street, Durban.

Gegroet uit Durban .Dis 2vm en dit is 20 grade op die termometer, alles is

oop en op die oomblik windstil. En natuurlik nog bewolk.

Rita Quebbemann.





1a COETZER EN JORDAAN TAMALETJIE by "Rassie"

1b Re: COETZER EN JORDAAN TAMALETJIE by "Charlie Els" charlieels

2a Re: TAB versoek: Marthinus Stephanus Jacobus Petrus Nel (MHG O-1585 by "Fina"

2b Re: TAB versoek: by "Nicky Lategan" nickylate

2c Re: TAB versoek: by "Anrie Hoogendoorn"

2d Re: TAB versoek: by "Annelie Els" engelkind2000

2e Re: TAB versoek: by "Eddie Otte" otte.eddie


Messages

1a COETZER EN JORDAAN TAMALETJIE


"Rassie"

Beste Lyslede,

In my stamboom aan my ma se kant, gebore Coetzer, was daar blykbaar soveel

huwelike tussen Coetzers en Jordaans dat selfs De Villiers en Pama en die

Jordaan geslagsregister en die Coetzer boek nie mooi met alles kon tred hou

nie.

Al drie hierdie bronne weerspreek mekaar op plekke en het moontlik ook nie

die volle inligting tot beskikking gehad nie. Familysearch en ander

internetbronne help ook nie verder nie.

Op grond van argiefstukke kon ek nou een direkte Coetzer lyn vanaf ou Jacob

Coetzer tot by my ma deurtrek.

Die eerst ses geslagte loop as volg:

Jacob Coetzer en Cornelia Helms

Johannes Jacobus Coetzer en Johanna Nel

Jacobus Johannes Coetzer en Magdalena Elizabeth Jordaan

Jacobus Albertus Coetzer en Anna Susanna Coetzer

Jacobus Johannes Albertus Coetzer en Johanna Cornelia Maria Grobler

Douw Jacob Coetzer. (my oupa)

My problem is met die vierde geslag en te wel met Anna Susanna Coetzer.

Volgens haar SK was sy die dogter van Pieter Willem Coetzer en Elsie Maria

Coetzer.

Die enigste Pieter Willem wat, sover dit vir my lyk hiervoor kwalifiseer is

die een wat in 1785 gedoop is as seun van Pieter Willem Coetzer =12/8/1753

en getroud was met Anna Susanna Jordaan.

Dit beteken dat Jacobus Albertus Coetzer met sy neef se dogter getroud was.

Indien haar ma se naam Elsie Coetzer was, beteken dat sy die dogter uit „n

neef-niggie huwelik was. Dit sou dan verder beteken dat haar oupa haar man

se pa se broer was.

So as dit alles so was, dan het Anna Susanna net twee oupagrootjies gehad,

nl. Johannes Jacobus Coetzer en Pieter Jordaan en dan was albei haar oupas

Coetzer en albei haar oumas Jordaan.

Haar ma en pa was dan ook beide Coetzer.

Uit haar 14 voorouers wat haar in drie geslagte voorafgegaan het was daar

dus 10 Coetzers en Jordaans en slegs vier ander, naamlik Nel en Van der

Merwe. En dan was hierdie twee Nels en Van der Merwes boonop ook in

werklikheid net twee persone naamlik een Nel oumagrootjie en een Van der

Merwe oumagrootjie.

En of dit toe nog nie genoeg is nie loop trou Anna Susanna Coetzer se seun,

Jacobus Johannes Albertus Coetzer, met Johanna Cornelia Maria Grobler, wat

sy oupa Jacobus Johannes Coetzer se kleindogter was.

Is daar moontlik Lyslede wat my kan help om met behulp van hul bestaande

inligting hierdie tamaletjie te verorber.

Alternatiewelik is ek ook bereid om iemand vir dienste te vergoed wat my

kan help om die oorspronklike of afskrifte of mikrofilms van tersaaklike

SK‟s ens te bekom. Lede wat daartoe bereid is kan my direk van Lys af

kontak asseblief.

Tot sover die meer ernstige deel van die storie.

Moontlik kan Lyslede my ook help om te se of my oupa Douw werklik sy eie

oom, neef en kleinneef kon wees.


Groete,

Rassie

1b Re: COETZER EN JORDAAN TAMALETJIE


"Charlie Els" charlieels

Beste Rassie,

Dis omtrent „n tamaletjie. Die oupa wat dalk sy eie oom, neef en kleinneef is, het my laat dink aan die

grappie (eintlik „n liedjie) wat baie lede seker ken maar ek plak dit maar hieronder in:

A STRANGE CASE by Dwight Latham and Moe Jaffe

Many, many years ago when I was twenty-three,

I got married to a widow who was pretty as could be.

She had a grown-up daughter, with lovely hair of red.

My father fell in love with her and soon they too were wed.

This made my dad my son-in-law and changed my very life,

for my daughter was my mother now, as she‟s my father's wife.

To complicate the matter, even though it brought me joy

I soon became the father of a bouncing baby boy.

My little baby then, of course, became a brother-in-law to Dad

and so became my uncle; this made me rather sad:

For if he was my uncle, then that also made him brother

of the widow's grown-up daughter who, of course, was my stepmother.

My father's wife then had a son who kept them on the run

and he became my grandson, 'cause he was my daughter's son.

My wife is now my mother's mother; that makes me really blue

because - although she is my wife - she's my grandmother too!

If my wife is my grandmother, then I am her grandchild

and every time I think of it, it simply drives me wild.

For now I have become the strangest case you ever saw:

As the husband of my grandmother ---I AM MY OWN GRANDPAW!!

NS:

Mens kan na die liedjie luister by hierdie skakel (ek hoop dit gaan deur)

<http://gean.wwco.com/grandpa/index.html> http://gean.wwco.com/grandpa/index.html

Klik op “grandpa.wav” in die top regterkantst hoek.

Groete,

CHARLIE


Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2015 1:32 PM


Subject: [SA-Gen] COETZER EN JORDAAN TAMALETJIE

Beste Lyslede,

In my stamboom aan my ma se kant, gebore Coetzer, was daar blykbaar soveel huwelike tussen Coetzers

en Jordaans dat selfs De Villiers en Pama en die Jordaan geslagsregister en die Coetzer boek nie mooi met

alles kon tred hou nie.

Al drie hierdie bronne weerspreek mekaar op plekke en het moontlik ook nie die volle inligting tot

beskikking gehad nie. Familysearch en ander internetbronne help ook nie verder nie.

Op grond van argiefstukke kon ek nou een direkte Coetzer lyn vanaf ou Jacob Coetzer tot by my ma

deurtrek.

Die eerst ses geslagte loop as volg:

Jacob Coetzer en Cornelia Helms

Johannes Jacobus Coetzer en Johanna Nel

Jacobus Johannes Coetzer en Magdalena Elizabeth Jordaan

Jacobus Albertus Coetzer en Anna Susanna Coetzer

Jacobus Johannes Albertus Coetzer en Johanna Cornelia Maria Grobler

Douw Jacob Coetzer. (my oupa)

My problem is met die vierde geslag en te wel met Anna Susanna Coetzer. Volgens haar SK was sy die

dogter van Pieter Willem Coetzer en Elsie Maria Coetzer.

Die enigste Pieter Willem wat, sover dit vir my lyk hiervoor kwalifiseer is die een wat in 1785 gedoop is as

seun van Pieter Willem Coetzer =12/8/1753 en getroud was met Anna Susanna Jordaan.

Dit beteken dat Jacobus Albertus Coetzer met sy neef se dogter getroud was. Indien haar ma se naam Elsie

Coetzer was, beteken dat sy die dogter uit „n neef-niggie huwelik was. Dit sou dan verder beteken dat haar

oupa haar man se pa se broer was.

So as dit alles so was, dan het Anna Susanna net twee oupagrootjies gehad, nl. Johannes Jacobus Coetzer

en Pieter Jordaan en dan was albei haar oupas Coetzer en albei haar oumas Jordaan.

Haar ma en pa was dan ook beide Coetzer.

Uit haar 14 voorouers wat haar in drie geslagte voorafgegaan het was daar dus 10 Coetzers en Jordaans en

slegs vier ander, naamlik Nel en Van der Merwe. En dan was hierdie twee Nels en Van der Merwes boonop

ook in werklikheid net twee persone naamlik een Nel oumagrootjie en een Van der Merwe oumagrootjie.

En of dit toe nog nie genoeg is nie loop trou Anna Susanna Coetzer se seun, Jacobus Johannes Albertus

Coetzer, met Johanna Cornelia Maria Grobler, wat sy oupa Jacobus Johannes Coetzer se kleindogter was.

Is daar moontlik Lyslede wat my kan help om met behulp van hul bestaande inligting hierdie tamaletjie te

verorber.

Alternatiewelik is ek ook bereid om iemand vir dienste te vergoed wat my kan help om die oorspronklike

of afskrifte of mikrofilms van tersaaklike SK‟s ens te bekom. Lede wat daartoe bereid is kan my direk van

Lys af kontak asseblief.

Tot sover die meer ernstige deel van die storie.

Moontlik kan Lyslede my ook help om te se of my oupa Douw werklik sy eie oom, neef en kleinneef kon

wees.


Groete,

Rassie

2a Re: TAB versoek: Marthinus Stephanus Jacobus Petrus Nel (MHG O-1585


"Fina"

Hallo Anrie

Jy is darem maar „n gelukkige dame dat Annelie vir jou die skakel gestuur het.

Ek voel ek moet net „n lansie vir eGGSA breek. Mense soos Annelie-hulle neem nie die fotos van die

Internet af nie maar gaan neem persoonlik die fotos by die argief. Ek het al „n hele paar keer van eGGSA

gebruik gemaak en het presies gekry waarvoor ek gevra het. Baie keer ongelukkig die verkeerde dokument

(wat EK aangevra het) en ek is nie juis „welaf‟ nie maar betaal liewer daardie tarief voor ek self na die

argiewe gaan. Die vrywilligers wat dit vir eGGSA doen se koste is regtig minimaal met die rit (met

verkeervertragings en ongelukke), verrigtinge in die argief en dan buite kom en te sien jou motor is nog

veilig!

Moontlik kan eGGSA daaraan dink om „n diens aan te skaf waar jy kan kies tussen iemand wat fisies na die

argiewe gaan of iemand wat die foto op die Internet vir jou kan opspoor. Dit sal BAIE minder kos.

Groete

Fina


Sent: Friday, 11 December, 2015 11:49 AM


Subject: RE: [SA-Gen] TAB versoek: Marthinus Stephanus Jacobus Petrus Nel (MHG O-1585 - 1880)

Hallo Anrie,

eGGSA se prys vir `n SK is minder as die helfde van wat hulle by die mense vra ….

http://ancestor.co.za/

Ek wat baie gereeld by die Argief besoek gaan aflê en my tyd tot op die laaste minuut al uitgewerk het

wonder hoeveel is jy dan bereid om `n navorser te betaal… ???

Onthou net:-

1. Die tyd aan die admin… mens moet vir elke dokument wat aangevra word `n strokie invul.

2. Die tyd aan die soek vir die betrokke dokument wat afgeneem moet word.

3. Die tyd om die boekbundel reg te kry om die foto te neem… baie kan nie met net een persoon gedoen

word nie.

4. Die tyd om die fotos weer uit te sorteer

5. Die tyd op die internet om die fotos per epos, ens te stuur… internet is nie verniet nie.

6. Die kostes om Argief toe te ry en terug….

Ek sou aanraai dat u self die fotos van die TAB boedels tussen die wat op die FamilySearch webblad is

gaan soek om geld te spaar.

By die skakel is die een wat jy soek…. Die image is 394…..

https://familysearch.org/search/film/007805267?imageOrFilmUrl=%2Fsearch%2Ffilm%2F007805267

<https://familysearch.org/search/film/007805267?imageOrFilmUrl=%2Fsearch%2Ffilm%2F007805267&i

=393&cat=188051> &i=393&cat=188051

Groetnis.

Annelie.

Pretoria.



To: sagenealogie


Goeiemore,


waardeer

DEPOT TAB

SOURCE MHG

TYPE LEER

VOLUME_NO 0

SYSTEM 01

REFERENCE O/1585

PART 1

DESCRIPTION NEL, MARTHINUS STEPHANUS JACOBUS PETRUS.

STARTING 1880

ENDING 1880

As iemand ook 'n navorser kan aanbeveel? Ek het baie dokumente wat ek daar wil laat opsoek en ek is nie

baie tevrede met die laaste twee wat ek gebruik het nie. En as mens betaal vir iets, moet dit darem eksie

perfeksie wees.


Groete,

Anrie

2b Re: TAB versoek:


"Nicky Lategan" nickylate

Ek kan getuig van Annelie se uitstekende diens.

Nicky


Sent: Saturday, 12 December, 2015 5:19 PM



Hallo Anrie


El voel ek moet net „n lansie vir eGGSA breek. Mense soos Annelie-hulle neem nie die fotos van die






veilig!



Groete

Fina

2c Re: TAB versoek:


"Anrie Hoogendoorn"

Ek het gister al vir Annelie 'n e-pos gestuur om om verskoning te vra vir

indien sy beledig gevoel het en vir haar te verduidelik dat die feit dat ek

nie eGGSA se dienste kan bekostig nie, geensins as kritiek op haar werk of

'n onderskatting van die moeite bedoel is nie.

Groete,

Anrie

2015-12-12 20:42 GMT+01:00 'Nicky Lategan' [email protected]


> Ek kan getuig van Annelie se uitstekende diens.

> Nicky

> *From:* mailto:[email protected] <[email protected]>

> *Sent:* Saturday, 12 December, 2015 5:19 PM


> *Subject:* RE: [SA-Gen] TAB versoek: Marthinus Stephanus Jacobus Petrus

> Nel (MHG O-1585 - 1880)

> Hallo Anrie

>

> Jy is darem maar „n gelukkige dame dat Annelie vir jou die skakel gestuur

> het.

>

> El voel ek moet net „n lansie vir eGGSA breek. Mense soos Annelie-hulle

> neem nie die fotos van die Internet af nie maar gaan neem persoonlik die

> fotos by die argief. Ek het al „n hele paar keer van eGGSA gebruik gemaak

> en het presies gekry waarvoor ek gevra het. Baie keer ongelukkig die

> verkeerde dokument (wat EK aangevra het) en ek is nie juis „welaf‟ nie maar

> betaal liewer daardie tarief voor ek self na die argiewe gaan. Die

> vrywilligers wat dit vir eGGSA doen se koste is regtig minimaal met die rit

> (met verkeervertragings en ongelukke), verrigtinge in die argief en dan

> buite kom en te sien jou motor is nog veilig!

>

> Moontlik kan eGGSA daaraan dink om „n diens aan te skaf waar jy kan kies

> tussen iemand wat fisies na die argiewe gaan of iemand wat die foto op die

> Internet vir jou kan opspoor. Dit sal BAIE minder kos.

> Groete

> Fina

2d Re: TAB versoek:



Mensies,

Ek weet dit was nie Anrie se bedoeling om enigsins my werk te kritiseer nie.

My verduidelik aan haar aangaande die tyd wat in beslag geneem word met die fotografie van goeters by

die TAB en die verwerking daarvan was ook maar gemik op die algeneem van hoe lank dit neem.

Dankie Anrie vir jou persoonlike epos aan my.

Lekker dag vir almal.

Vriendelike groetnis.

Annelie.

Pretoria.



To: sagenealogie

Subject: Re: [SA-Gen] TAB versoek:

Ek het gister al vir Annelie 'n e-pos gestuur om om verskoning te vra vir indien sy beledig gevoel het en vir

haar te verduidelik dat die feit dat ek nie eGGSA se dienste kan bekostig nie, geensins as kritiek op haar

werk of 'n onderskatting van die moeite bedoel is nie.

Groete,

Anrie

2015-12-12 20:42 GMT+01:00 'Nicky Lategan' [email protected] [SAGenealogie]

<[email protected]>:


Nicky

2e Re: TAB versoek:


"Eddie Otte" otte.eddie

Ek stem saam!!!!!!!!!!!

Eddie Otte

081 042 0299

Families-OTTE, MOLL, LOMBARD, VAN NIEKERK, VILJOEN


Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2015 9:43 PM


Subject: Re: [SA-Gen] TAB versoek:


Nicky


Sent: Saturday, 12 December, 2015 5:19 PM



Hallo Anrie


El voel ek moet net „n lansie vir eGGSA breek. Mense soos Annelie-hulle neem nie die fotos van die






veilig!



Groete

Fina




Dag vriende,

QUICKQUIP:-"GRATITUDE:- It turns what we have into enough." - UNKNOWN.

BIRTHS:- ASKEY / FERNANDES Andrew & Julia a boy Kai Daniel

GORMLEY Michael & Hayley twin girls Sara Jean & Rebecca Jo.

HIPKIN - SACKS Duncan & Lisa a boy Zachary Richard.

KELMANSON nee HEDGES Giles & Louise a boy Charles Joseph

DEATHS:-CHETTY Maryamah x + D G CHETTY. Mother of Selvy, Selvan, Tilly, Tiny

CHETTY and + Soma CHETTY. Mother-in-law of Krish REDDY, Ram NAICKER, Saras,

Kasthurie. Grand and great-grandmother. Funeral 12 Dec 2015 from at Clare

Estate Crematorium Hall from 11am ---12:30pm Cremation thereafter. ISIPINGO

INC PAM'S 031 9022444.

CHETTY Dhanapalan (Poobalan) x Sushy. Father of 3 sons, father-in-law of 3

daughters. Brother of 1 brother and 3 sisters. Grandfather of 3 16th Day

Memorial at The Wyebank Funeral Parlour on 17 Dec 2015 .Supper from 5:30pm

Service 7pm.

GARDENER nee CLAUSEN Hanne Elisabeth 21 July 1944 ----9 Dec 2015 (71) in

Howick, x ,partner and companion for 35 years of John. Mother of Carina,

Samantha, and + Gordon. Sister of Karin and grandmother of James and

Kirsten. Mother-in-law of Gary and Mark . In accordance to her wishes she

will be cremated in a quiet ,no-fuss manner.

HANSEN Haanathan Velayutham + 2 Dec 2015. Son of + Bobby & Savi MOODLEY.

Brother of Iris, Terrence, Kumaran and + Nurseran and brother-in-law, Alwin.

Nephew of Guru, Nat MURUGAM.. 16th Day Memorial on 16 Dec 2015 at Wyebank

Siva Sungum Hall from 3-4pm. CELL:- 082 5171538.

LOUBSHER Keith Glenmore + 29 Nov 2015 . Husband and father to Ann, Michelle,

Nicole & Paulette. Loved grandfather.

MARTIN Monette 22 July 1929 ----8 Dec 2015 x + Jacques. Mother of Christine

and Jacques. Grand and great-grandmother. Funeral at St Josephs Catholic

Parish on 15 Dec 2015 at 11am. BELL 031 3014793.

NAIDOO Dennis (Kesavel) . Funeral on 12 Dec 2015 at Scidifa Community Hall

Silverglen from 12pm ---2pm Cremation at 3pm.

YOUNG Craig Stephen 17 July 1967 ----9 Dec 2015 x Suzanne. Father of Keagan

and Carl. Brother of Angela and Gavin. Brother-in-law to Mandy and Paul.

Funeral at DOVES South Chapel Greyville on 15 Dec 2015 at 2pm. DOVES

0860025500.

MEMORIAM:-BINNEMAN Yvonne Matilda 3 Feb 1937 ---12 Dec 2013. She and Trevor

stands in Gods Garden. From your beloved Stephan.

VAN HEERDEN Patricia. 6 years gone now. Wife ,Mother and grandmother.

WILLARD Claudelle 10 Oct 1982 ----13 Dec 2014. Missed by Mom, Dad ,your son,

brother, sisters and nephews.

Gegroet uit snikhete Durban vannag. My man hou van die naam BLOEDIG warm.

Rita Quebbemann.





1a 2 NAAIRS-vrae by "Anrie Hoogendoorn"

1b Re: 2 NAAIRS-vrae by "Annelie Els" engelkind2000

1c Re: 2 NAAIRS-vrae by cjohanvanbreda

2a Re: COETZER EN JORDAAN TAMALETJIE by "Rassie"

3a VAB Hulp asb by "Sarel Burger" sarel.burger

4a Re: Waar is De Hoop? by "Chris" chrismeyer4219

Messages

1a 2 NAAIRS-vrae


"Anrie Hoogendoorn"

Goeienaand,

Weet iemand hoe oud 'n sterfkennis moet wees voor dit deur NAAIRS

geïndekseer word? En sou dit slegs op die betrokke persoon van toepassing

wees, of sou sy oorlewende eggenoot/te ook eers x jaar oorlede moet wees?

Dan ook: vir sommige mense kry ek nie resultate tydens 'n NAAIRS-soektog

nie. Nou het ek al een keer vanaand in die FamilySearch-katalogus 'n

sterfkennis uit die eerste helfte van die 1900s gekry wat nie deur NAAIRS

geïndekseer is nie, dus neem ek aan daar sal nog wees. Maar kan dit ook

wees dat daar glad nie 'n sterfkennis uitgereik is vir sommige persone nie?

Groete,

Anrie

1b Re: 2 NAAIRS-vrae



Hallo Anrie,

Jy moet net onthou daar is `n GROOT verskil tussen `n STERFTEKENNIS en `n DOODSERTIFIKAAT.

Die doodsertifikaat word deur die dokter ingevul en geteken om die afsterwe van `n persoon te registreer

[sal ek dit noem].

Die Sterftekennis kan deur enige iemand ingevul word.

NAAIRS se boedels wat deur hulle geberg word stop by 1976 die res van dit word geberg by DOCU-

FILES ek dink Mid Rand en om hulle te besigtig moet mens deur die Meesterskantoor werk.

NAAIRS se komperstelsel werk nie op „soundex‟ soos FamilySearch nie… jy moet die presiese spelling

van die word soos wat hy deur die persoon „ingepons‟ is gebruik anders gaan jy nie `n „hit‟ kry nie. Daar

bestaan ook die moontlikheid dat daar `n fout tussen die nommer wat ingepons is en die INDEX kan wees.

Die index kom van die Meesterskantoor af.

Vir my om al die boedels/dokumente wat betrekking het tot my navorsings-van „VAN DEN/R HEEVER‟

moet ek die „van den/r‟ los en net met die HEEVER soek – met al die variante – hever – heever – hefer –

heefer en ek moet ook ingedagte hou dat die HEFER van `n ander Stamvader is…

Wat jou vraag oor die uitreik van `n Sterftekennis betref – dit word gewoonlik net ingevul wanneer daar

een of ander BATE in `n boedel is.

In my persoonlik geval is my oumagroot en ouma binne 20 min uitmekaar oorlede.. oumagroot het die

laaste jare van haar lewe in die Robinson Hospitaal deurgebring weens haar swak gesondheid. My oupa het

net vir ouma `n Sterftekennis ingevul, [getroud in gemeenskap van goedere en `n huis betrokke] maar nie

vir oumagroot een nie.

Ek het al met `n Boedel gewerk waar die persoon 2pond in `n Poskantoor boekie gehad het.

Nie almal wat sterf gaan `n Sterftekennis hê nie maar na 1895 moes `n dood aangemeld word en dan sal

daar `n Doodsertifikaat wees.

Hoop dit beantwoord jou vraag.

Groetnis.

Annelie.

Pretoria.



To: sagenealogie

Subject: [SA-Gen] 2 NAAIRS-vrae

Goeienaand,

Weet iemand hoe oud 'n sterfkennis moet wees voor dit deur NAAIRS geïndekseer word? En sou dit slegs

op die betrokke persoon van toepassing wees, of sou sy oorlewende eggenoot/te ook eers x jaar oorlede

moet wees?

Dan ook: vir sommige mense kry ek nie resultate tydens 'n NAAIRS-soektog nie. Nou het ek al een keer

vanaand in die FamilySearch-katalogus 'n sterfkennis uit die eerste helfte van die 1900s gekry wat nie deur

NAAIRS geïndekseer is nie, dus neem ek aan daar sal nog wees. Maar kan dit ook wees dat daar glad nie 'n

sterfkennis uitgereik is vir sommige persone nie?

Groete,

Anrie

1c Re: 2 NAAIRS-vrae


cjohanvanbreda

Anrie,

Ek weet nie van die ander argiewe en Meesterkantore nie, maar in Kaapstad is die boedels as volg

beskikbaar:-

Boedels van 1834 tot 1976 is by die Kaapstad Argiefbewaarplek

Slegs 1834 tot 1959 soekbaar op NAAIRS.

Boedels van 1960 tot 1976 is soekbaar in die indekslêers in die argief.

Boedellêers van 1977 tot 1996 is gedurende April 2015 na KAB oorgeplaas maar nog nie beskikbaar nie

want dit moet nog gesorteer en ge-indekseer word.

Boedellêers van 1997 tot 2015 is by die Meester se nuwe kantoor Dullah Omar Gebou, 45 Kasteel Straat,

Kaapstad beskikbaar.

Johan van Breda

Kaapstad

2a Re: COETZER EN JORDAAN TAMALETJIE


"Rassie"

Hallo Charlie,

He-he, noudat ek hierdie ou se storie gehoor het lyk my oupa Douw soos 'n

weeskind teen hom.

Groete

Rassie

2015-12-13 9:45 GMT+02:00 'Charlie Els' [email protected] [SAGenealogie] <

[email protected]>:

> Beste Rassie,

>

> Dis omtrent „n tamaletjie. Die oupa wat dalk sy eie oom, neef en kleinneef

> is, het my laat dink aan die grappie (eintlik „n liedjie) wat baie lede

> seker ken maar ek plak dit maar hieronder in:

>

> A STRANGE CASE by Dwight Latham and Moe Jaffe

>

> Many, many years ago when I was twenty-three,

> I got married to a widow who was pretty as could be.

> She had a grown-up daughter, with lovely hair of red.

> My father fell in love with her and soon they too were wed.

> This made my dad my son-in-law and changed my very life,

> for my daughter was my mother now, as she‟s my father's wife.

> To complicate the matter, even though it brought me joy

> I soon became the father of a bouncing baby boy.

> My little baby then, of course, became a brother-in-law to Dad

> and so became my uncle; this made me rather sad:

> For if he was my uncle, then that also made him brother

> of the widow's grown-up daughter who, of course, was my stepmother.

> My father's wife then had a son who kept them on the run

> and he became my grandson, 'cause he was my daughter's son.

> My wife is now my mother's mother; that makes me really blue

> because - although she is my wife - she's my grandmother too!

> If my wife is my grandmother, then I am her grandchild

> and every time I think of it, it simply drives me wild.

> For now I have become the strangest case you ever saw:

> As the husband of my grandmother ---I AM MY OWN GRANDPAW!!

>

> NS:

>

> Mens kan na die liedjie luister by hierdie skakel (ek hoop dit gaan deur)

>

> http://gean.wwco.com/grandpa/index.html

>

> Klik op “grandpa.wav” in die top regterkantst hoek.

>

> Groete,

> CHARLIE

>

>

> *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]

> *Sent:* Saturday, December 12, 2015 1:32 PM


> *Subject:* [SA-Gen] COETZER EN JORDAAN TAMALETJIE

>

> Beste Lyslede,

>

> In my stamboom aan my ma se kant, gebore Coetzer, was daar blykbaar soveel

> huwelike tussen Coetzers en Jordaans dat selfs De Villiers en Pama en die

> Jordaan geslagsregister en die Coetzer boek nie mooi met alles kon tred hou

> nie.

>

> Al drie hierdie bronne weerspreek mekaar op plekke en het moontlik ook nie

> die volle inligting tot beskikking gehad nie. Familysearch en ander

> internetbronne help ook nie verder nie.

>

> Op grond van argiefstukke kon ek nou een direkte Coetzer lyn vanaf ou

> Jacob Coetzer tot by my ma deurtrek.

>

> Die eerst ses geslagte loop as volg:

>

> Jacob Coetzer en Cornelia Helms

>

> Johannes Jacobus Coetzer en Johanna Nel

>

> Jacobus Johannes Coetzer en Magdalena Elizabeth Jordaan

>

> Jacobus Albertus Coetzer en Anna Susanna Coetzer

>

> Jacobus Johannes Albertus Coetzer en Johanna Cornelia Maria Grobler

>

> Douw Jacob Coetzer. (my oupa)

>

> My problem is met die vierde geslag en te wel met Anna Susanna Coetzer.

> Volgens haar SK was sy die dogter van Pieter Willem Coetzer en Elsie Maria

> Coetzer.

>

> Die enigste Pieter Willem wat, sover dit vir my lyk hiervoor kwalifiseer

> is die een wat in 1785 gedoop is as seun van Pieter Willem Coetzer

> =12/8/1753 en getroud was met Anna Susanna Jordaan.

>

> Dit beteken dat Jacobus Albertus Coetzer met sy neef se dogter getroud

> was. Indien haar ma se naam Elsie Coetzer was, beteken dat sy die dogter

> uit „n neef-niggie huwelik was. Dit sou dan verder beteken dat haar oupa

> haar man se pa se broer was.

>

> So as dit alles so was, dan het Anna Susanna net twee oupagrootjies gehad,

> nl. Johannes Jacobus Coetzer en Pieter Jordaan en dan was albei haar oupas

> Coetzer en albei haar oumas Jordaan.

>

> Haar ma en pa was dan ook beide Coetzer.

>

> Uit haar 14 voorouers wat haar in drie geslagte voorafgegaan het was daar

> dus 10 Coetzers en Jordaans en slegs vier ander, naamlik Nel en Van der

> Merwe. En dan was hierdie twee Nels en Van der Merwes boonop ook in

> werklikheid net twee persone naamlik een Nel oumagrootjie en een Van der

> Merwe oumagrootjie.

>

> En of dit toe nog nie genoeg is nie loop trou Anna Susanna Coetzer se

> seun, Jacobus Johannes Albertus Coetzer, met Johanna Cornelia Maria

> Grobler, wat sy oupa Jacobus Johannes Coetzer se kleindogter was.

>

> Is daar moontlik Lyslede wat my kan help om met behulp van hul bestaande

> inligting hierdie tamaletjie te verorber.

>

> Alternatiewelik is ek ook bereid om iemand vir dienste te vergoed wat my

> kan help om die oorspronklike of afskrifte of mikrofilms van tersaaklike

> SK‟s ens te bekom. Lede wat daartoe bereid is kan my direk van Lys af

> kontak asseblief.

>

> Tot sover die meer ernstige deel van die storie.

>

> Moontlik kan Lyslede my ook help om te se of my oupa Douw werklik sy eie

> oom, neef en kleinneef kon wees.

>

> Enige hulp sal waardeer word.

>

> Groete,

> Rassie

3a VAB Hulp asb


"Sarel Burger" sarel.burger

Ek wil graag 'n versoek rig vir iemand om my te help met 'n VAB SK wat ek

nie op die internet kan kry nie, nl

DEPOT VAB

SOURCE MHG

TYPE LEER

SYSTEM 02

REFERENCE 676/1949

PART 1

DESCRIPTION STEYL, IRIS ANNA JACOBA. NOOIENSVAN FECHTER. EGGENOOT

MARTHINUS

THEUNIS STEYN STEYL.

STARTING 19490000

ENDING 19490000

Ek is bereid om te vergoed vir die tyd en fasiliteite gebruik.

Sarel Burger

Stellenbosch

Burger Register by www.burgerfamilie.com

- asook die nasate van Conrad FECHTER

4a Re: Waar is De Hoop?


"Chris" chrismeyer4219

Goeie môre alle bekendes.

Ek wil graag ook so 'n klip in die bos gooi m.b.t. DE HOOP. Ja Alta is

reg, dit is net 'n klein plattelandse gemeenskappie, maar die mooiste

sandsteen kerk wat ek lanklaas gesien het. Daar is baie van my familie

gedoop en getroud. Toe ek my MEYER navorsing gedoen het gedurende 1990

tot 2000 het ek dikwels daar verby gery na Calitzdorp toe. Doen gerus

die moeite en neem die sement pad na Calitzdorp (Vanaf Oudtshoorn draai

dit links uit) - Plase in die omgewing van DE HOOP is: Limerick, Jan

Fourieskraal, Kruisrivier. e.a. Daar was niemand by die kerk toe ek

daar navorsing gedoen het nie, en het my inligting by die Oudshoorn

Doopregister gekry onder 'n nommer bv.( 9306 = Jacobus Hendrik MEYER *

03.08.1910 # 25.09.1910 De Hoop.) .

Alta het my baie gehelp met hierdie info.

Groete en sterkte vir die seisoen aan al ons Gen maatjies.

Chris Meyer,

Mosselbaai.





1a Van Rooyen by "Jaco Strauss" jacostrauss

2a Re: 2 NAAIRS-vrae by "Fina"

3a VAB Hulp asb by "Hendrik at Loogkolk" loogkolk09

3b Re: VAB Hulp asb by "Sarel Burger" sarel.burger


5a Re: Waar is De Hoop? by "Naas Olivier"

6 SA Kaart met beskikbare Kerkargiewe by "Anrie Hoogendoorn"

7a Unie van SuidAfrika identiteitsnommer (Engelbrecht van Elliot 1900) by "Matthew Wicks" mattywix

8a Beating the Inequality Drum... by "Jaco Strauss" jacostrauss

8b Re: Beating the Inequality Drum... by "Jaco Strauss" jacostrauss

9 [Press] The Mercury /Daily News Monday 14 Dec 2015 by "Aletta Magrieta Quebbemann" alettaqea9fac

Messages

1a Van Rooyen



Goeie môre lyslede

Het enige iemand dalk 'n idee van watter VAN ROOYENs die voormalige

Minister van Finansies, David VAN ROOYEN is?

Groete

Jaco

Jaco Strauss

*Somerset-Wes*

2a Re: 2 NAAIRS-vrae


"Fina"

Middag!

Annelie, weet jy dalk van watter datum „n DOODSERTIFIKAAT verpligtend geraak het? Dit is die een

wat die dokter voltooi om te se waaraan die persoon oorlede is?

En, waar sou mens so „n dokument opspoor? Binnelandse sake?

Groete vanuit „n heerlike REENERIGE Newcastle. (SO DANKBAAR!)

Fina


Sent: Monday, 14 December, 2015 4:40 AM


Subject: RE: [SA-Gen] 2 NAAIRS-vrae

Hallo Anrie,

Jy moet net onthou daar is `n GROOT verskil tussen `n STERFTEKENNIS en `n DOODSERTIFIKAAT.

Die doodsertifikaat word deur die dokter ingevul en geteken om die afsterwe van `n persoon te registreer

[sal ek dit noem].

Die Sterftekennis kan deur enige iemand ingevul word.

NAAIRS se boedels wat deur hulle geberg word stop by 1976 die res van dit word geberg by DOCU-

FILES ek dink Mid Rand en om hulle te besigtig moet mens deur die Meesterskantoor werk.

NAAIRS se komperstelsel werk nie op „soundex‟ soos FamilySearch nie… jy moet die presiese spelling

van die word soos wat hy deur die persoon „ingepons‟ is gebruik anders gaan jy nie `n „hit‟ kry nie. Daar

bestaan ook die moontlikheid dat daar `n fout tussen die nommer wat ingepons is en die INDEX kan wees.

Die index kom van die Meesterskantoor af.

Vir my om al die boedels/dokumente wat betrekking het tot my navorsings-van „VAN DEN/R HEEVER‟

moet ek die „van den/r‟ los en net met die HEEVER soek – met al die variante – hever – heever – hefer –

heefer en ek moet ook ingedagte hou dat die HEFER van `n ander Stamvader is…

Wat jou vraag oor die uitreik van `n Sterftekennis betref – dit word gewoonlik net ingevul wanneer daar

een of ander BATE in `n boedel is.

In my persoonlik geval is my oumagroot en ouma binne 20 min uitmekaar oorlede.. oumagroot het die

laaste jare van haar lewe in die Robinson Hospitaal deurgebring weens haar swak gesondheid. My oupa het

net vir ouma `n Sterftekennis ingevul, [getroud in gemeenskap van goedere en `n huis betrokke] maar nie

vir oumagroot een nie.

Ek het al met `n Boedel gewerk waar die persoon 2pond in `n Poskantoor boekie gehad het.

Nie almal wat sterf gaan `n Sterftekennis hê nie maar na 1895 moes `n dood aangemeld word en dan sal

daar `n Doodsertifikaat wees.

Hoop dit beantwoord jou vraag.

Groetnis.

Annelie.

Pretoria.



To: sagenealogie

Subject: [SA-Gen] 2 NAAIRS-vrae

Goeienaand,

Weet iemand hoe oud 'n sterfkennis moet wees voor dit deur NAAIRS geïndekseer word? En sou dit slegs

op die betrokke persoon van toepassing wees, of sou sy oorlewende eggenoot/te ook eers x jaar oorlede

moet wees?

Dan ook: vir sommige mense kry ek nie resultate tydens 'n NAAIRS-soektog nie. Nou het ek al een keer

vanaand in die FamilySearch-katalogus 'n sterfkennis uit die eerste helfte van die 1900s gekry wat nie deur

NAAIRS geïndekseer is nie, dus neem ek aan daar sal nog wees. Maar kan dit ook wees dat daar glad nie 'n

sterfkennis uitgereik is vir sommige persone nie?

Groete,

Anrie

3a VAB Hulp asb


"Hendrik at Loogkolk" loogkolk09

Dagsê Sarel

Ek het vir jou gestuur, hoop dit is die regte. Verder hoop en vertrou ek dit

gaan nog goed met julle. Mag jul ook 'n Geseende Kersfees-tyd beleef en mag

2016, vol goeie gesondheid, sukses en vreugdes wees.

Groete

Hendrik LOUW

From: "'Sarel Burger' [email protected] [SAGenealogie]"

<[email protected]>

To: <[email protected]>

Sent: Monday, December 14, 2015 10:32 AM

Subject: [SA-Gen] VAB Hulp asb



DEPOT VAB

SOURCE MHG

TYPE LEER

SYSTEM 02

REFERENCE 676/1949

PART 1


MARTHINUS


STARTING 19490000

ENDING 19490000


Sarel Burger

Stellenbosch



3b Re: VAB Hulp asb


"Sarel Burger" sarel.burger

Baie dankie Hendrik vir die hulp. Groot waardering,

Groete,

Sarel

From: 'Hendrik at Loogkolk' [email protected] [SAGenealogie]

Sent: Monday, December 14, 2015 12:37 PM


Cc: Sarel Burger


Dagsê Sarel

Ek het vir jou gestuur, hoop dit is die regte. Verder hoop en vertrou ek dit

gaan nog goed met julle. Mag jul ook 'n Geseende Kersfees-tyd beleef en mag

2016, vol goeie gesondheid, sukses en vreugdes wees.

Groete

Hendrik LOUW

From: "'Sarel Burger' [email protected] [SAGenealogie]"

<[email protected]>

To: <[email protected]>

Sent: Monday, December 14, 2015 10:32 AM




DEPOT VAB

SOURCE MHG

TYPE LEER

SYSTEM 02

REFERENCE 676/1949

PART 1


MARTHINUS


STARTING 19490000

ENDING 19490000


Sarel Burger

Stellenbosch





"Hester Marx"

Sterfgevalle

FERREIRA, Theodoris Daniel (Daney). *21/06/1930. +Woensdag 09 Des 2015 op Humansdorp.

Eggenote, kinders, kleinkinders, agterkleinkinders. Dankdiens Dinsdag 15 Desember 2015 11:00

NG Kerk Gamtoosvallei. (Die Burger O-Kaap 12/12/2015)

Bokkie Els AVBOB Humansdorp 042 291 1230

NEL, Johanna. (Voorheen van Sentraal). +Donderdag 10 Desember 2015. Chris, Ria, Christiaan,

Hanri, Richard, Anneli, Leah en Stella. Verassing privaat. (Die Burger Oos-Kaap 12/12/2015)

Anneke Geel AVBOB Newtonpark 041 363 0041

Hester Marx, Loerie

[email protected]

5a Re: Waar is De Hoop?


"Naas Olivier"

Hi Chris en bekendes:-

My Olivier voorgeslagte kom ook van die “De Hoop” omgewing my pa Johannes Stephanus Olivier is in

1908 op die plaas Langeverwacht gebore. Ek het heelwat inligting in die De Hoop kerkregisters gekry.

Dit is net jammer dat die begraafplase in daardie omgewing so verwaarloos is en die meeste is sonder

grafstene. Alta le Roux het my ook al gehelp met verskeie inligting oor die voorgeslagte.

Groete – geseënde Kersfees en voorspoed vir 2016.

NAAS OLIVIER

<mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]

JEFFREYSBAAI RSA.

NAVORSING:- Olivier/Burger – Pretorius/Steenkamp –Human/Vermeulen - Sounes




Subject: [SA-Gen] Re: Waar is De Hoop?

Goeie môre alle bekendes.

Ek wil graag ook so 'n klip in die bos gooi m.b.t. DE HOOP. Ja Alta is reg, dit is net 'n klein plattelandse

gemeenskappie, maar die mooiste sandsteen kerk wat ek lanklaas gesien het. Daar is baie van my familie

gedoop en getroud. Toe ek my MEYER navorsing gedoen het gedurende 1990 tot 2000 het ek dikwels daar

verby gery na Calitzdorp toe. Doen gerus die moeite en neem die sement pad na Calitzdorp (Vanaf

Oudtshoorn draai dit links uit) - Plase in die omgewing van DE HOOP is: Limerick, Jan Fourieskraal,

Kruisrivier. e.a. Daar was niemand by die kerk toe ek daar navorsing gedoen het nie, en het my inligting by

die Oudshoorn Doopregister gekry onder 'n nommer bv.( 9306 = Jacobus Hendrik MEYER * 03.08.1910 #

25.09.1910 De Hoop.) . Alta het my baie gehelp met hierdie info.

Groete en sterkte vir die seisoen aan al ons Gen maatjies.

Chris Meyer,

Mosselbaai.

6 SA Kaart met beskikbare Kerkargiewe


"Anrie Hoogendoorn"

Goeiemiddag:

Vir my persoonlike gebruik het ek die volgende kaart geskep, of liewer, is

ek eintlik nog besig om die volgende kaart te skep, maar gedink ander kan

dit ook miskien gebruik:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zHayrTv9YK6I.kt_JKY6T7xMQ&usp=sharing

Dit is 'n kaart waarop ek probeer aandui vir watse plekke daar kerkargiewe

aanlyn beskikbaar is.

Ek het die idee gekry nadat Debbie Pretorius my spesifieke dorpies

aangeraai het om na te soek, ná ek iemand nie in George se doopregister kon

kry nie. Mens weet nie altyd watse dorpies is naby die plek waar jou

doodloopstraat gebore/getroud/gesterf is nie, of daar rekords by daardie

nabygeleë dorpies is, ens.

Mens kan ongelukkig nie soek na dorpies nie, so jy sal moet navigeer na die

betrokke dorp en dan kyk wat in die omgewing beskikbaar is.

Ek is nog lank nie klaar nie, maar daar is al heelwat daar, so ek het

gedink ek deel dit solank, vir ingeval daar ander is wat dit ook nuttig kan

vind.

Terloops, as daar webwerwes behalwe eGGSA en FamilySearch is wat

kerkargiewe aanbied, hoor ek dit graag. Ander kommentaar en korreksies is

ook welkom.

Groete,

Anrie

7a Unie van SuidAfrika identiteitsnommer (Engelbrecht van Elliot 1900)


"Matthew Wicks" mattywix

Ek het die identiteitsnommer (Unie van Suid-Afrika) van my ouma

(Catherina Wilhelmina Engelbrecht / Wicks) gevind.

Ek kan nie haar geboorte rekord vind nie.

Die nommer is 253619.

Met hierdie nommer, wat informasie kan ek soek?

Kan dit my hulp met enigeiets?

Groete

Matthew

8a Beating the Inequality Drum...



The "Economic Policy Institute" has a Facebook page where they lament:

*"This growing inequality between society‟s rich and poor is an issue that

> some candidates have already begun to address in the 2016 presidential

> campaign. Cartoon journalist Andy Warner illustrates how deep America‟s

> economic divide is."*

The article accompanying it is this:

http://ww2.kqed.org/lowdown/2015/12/10/income-inequality/

So I posted a link to Leon's Piketty article in the Business Day. Would be

interesting to see if anyone comments on it....

The "Economic Policy Institute" has a Facebook page at

https://www.facebook.com/EconomicPolicy/

8b Re: Beating the Inequality Drum...



Groot APOLOGIE aan almal, hierdie was vir 'n ander forum (SA Libertarians)

bedoel.

Dit was net 'n vroeë môre "dik vinger" probleem

Jammer weer eens

Jaco

2015-12-15 6:55 GMT+02:00 Jaco Strauss <[email protected]>:

> The "Economic Policy Institute" has a Facebook page where they lament:

>

> *"This growing inequality between society‟s rich and poor is an issue that

>> some candidates have already begun to address in the 2016 presidential

>> campaign. Cartoon journalist Andy Warner illustrates how deep America‟s

>> economic divide is."*

>

>

> The article accompanying it is this:

> http://ww2.kqed.org/lowdown/2015/12/10/income-inequality/

> So I posted a link to Leon's Piketty article in the Business Day. Would be

> interesting to see if anyone comments on it....

>

> The "Economic Policy Institute" has a Facebook page at

> https://www.facebook.com/EconomicPolicy/

Jaco Strauss

*Kaapstad*

9 [Press] The Mercury /Daily News Monday 14 Dec 2015



Dag vriende,

QUICKQUIP:- " I'm worried that the universe will soon need replacing. It's

not holding a charge. " - Edward CHILTON.

DEATHS:- LOS ANGELES:- SIGGINS Rose + 12 Dec 2015 at age 43. The " woman

with a half a body" She was an actress. She starred in "American Horror

Story". She lost her leggs to a rare genetic disorder early in life. She

travelled around on a scateboard. Mother of 2. REUTERS. DAILY NEWS.

BAXTER Bev + 10 Dec 2015. Funeral on 15 Dec 2015 at The Thomas More College

Hall at 2pm. Tea will be served afterwards.. Wake at Gibby's Sports Bar.

LE ROUX Gideon Fracois (Deon) 22 March 1938 -----8 Dec 2015 in Cape Town x

Helen. Father to Jarret Shane and Cadian. Oupa to the little flock around

the world. DAILY NEWS.

LUTCHMIAH Samuel Euclid (Sam) 17 March 1974 ----13 Dec 2015. Body will lie

in state at 29 Penelope Street, Starwood Phoenix from 10am ---11:30am on 15

Dec 2015. Funeral Service at Mighty Revival Ministries Southgate Phoenix

from 12noon ---2pm. Proceeding to Clare Estate Crematorium at 3pm.

MARAIS Charles Petrus + 4 Dec 2015 x Elaine. Father of Bruce, Chris, Peter,

Charmaine, Marion. Oupa and brother to Kleintjie and Girl & + Thomas. Son of

+ Felicia & Jan MARAIS. Memorial at The Church of Christ Umbilo 14 Dec 2015

at 1pm. Cremation private . SHANLEY'S 031 2057644. SUNDAY TRIBUNE 13 Dec

2015

MTSHALI Lionel + 13 Dec 2015 at Westville Hospital ,at age 80, x Daphne.

Father and grandfather. He was former KZN prmier. He suffered from a heart

ailment. - Sharika REGCHAND.

RANDALL George + 11 Dec 2015. Father of Linda,Robert, Heather, Janet,

father-in-law , grand and great-grandfather . Funeral on 14 Dec 2015 at

14h00 at St Margaret's Presbyterian Church Bluff. SUNDAY TRIBUNE 13 Dec

2015.

SINKINS James + 11 Dec 2015in St Anne's Hospital Pietermaritzburg, after

dogs attacked him on Thursday. He was a specials needs boy and 8 years old.

Son of Graydon & Estelle of Howick. - Billy SUTHER.

WIGSTON Jadwiga Joan (Viga) 12 April 1951 ----9 Dec 2015. Mother , sister

and grandmother and aunt. Funeral Service on 17 Dec 2015 at the Grace Family

Church Umhlanga Rocks Drive at 11am. AVBOB 031 206 1831

MEMORIAM:-SPIES Alan .19 years gone now x Carole. Father of Lenore,

Brinton, Allison, Claude, Celene. Grand and great-grandchildren.

Gegroet uit Durban

Rita Quebbemann.





1a Van Rooyen by "van Zyl's" jvanzyl100


3 MA Vednter oorlede by "E Weideman" etienne.weideman

4a Re: 2 NAAIRS-vrae by "Caren Louw" caren.louw

5a Re: SA Kaart met beskikbare Kerkargiewe by "Caren Louw" caren.louw

Messages

1a Van Rooyen


"van Zyl's" jvanzyl100

Nee Nee, sonder koppelings

Jan van Zyl

Het enige iemand dalk 'n idee van watter VAN ROOYENs die voormalige

Minister van Finansies, David VAN ROOYEN is?

Groete

Jaco



"Hester Marx"

Sterfgevalle

DE GOEDE, Anna Elizabeth. *12/02/1942. +12/12/2015. Kinders, kleinkinders, agterkleinkinders.

Diens Woensdag 16 Des 2015 11:00 Evangelisasie Sentrum, Cleeveweg, Cotswold.


SWART (née GERBER), Mona. +Vrydag 11 Desember 2015. Kinders, een kleinkind.

Gedenkdiens Donderdag 17 Des 2015 11:00 NG Kerk Bothasrus, Despatch. Verassing privaat.

(Die Burger Oos-Kaap 15/12/2015) Newton Park Funeral Home

In Memoriam

TAIT, Colin. 20/08/1970 – 16/12/2008. Ouers Fanie en Joey TERBLANCHE.


Hester Marx, Loerie

[email protected]

3 MA Vednter oorlede



Goeiedag lede,

My moeder is gisteroggend (15.12.2015) oorlede op Graaf-Reinet in die

ouderdom van 96 jaar.

Magdalena Anna Venter #5, g. 23.10.1919 in Graaff-Reinet. (Lenie).

Sy trou 03.04.1937, Jacob Gerhardus Weideman #4, g. 20.11.1914 in

Aberdeen, Kaapprovinsie, (seun van Hendrikus Jacobus Weideman #10 en Maria

Elizabeth Momberg #11) begrawe in Graaff-Reinet, s. 09.04.1989 in Port

Elizabeth. Jacob: (b8c8d9e3f6) (Japie) Dosent onderwyserskollege,

Graaff-Reinet.

Vir die Venter navorsers (en ander vanne!), 'n kort uittreksel uit my

Brothers Keeper program (Ek het heelwat meer inligting wat nog nie in BK

program bygevoeg is nie):

Sewende Geslag

10. Pieter Jacobus Venter #1452, g. 11.01.1821, gedoop 10.03.1822 in

Cradock. b5c4d1e1f2g3.

Hy trou (1) 21.05.1843 in Cradock, Anna Barbara Opperman #1453, g.

11.04.1828 in Vlekpoort, dist. Cradock, (dogter van Christiaan Rudolph

Opperman #3185 en Anna Barbara Venter #3186) gedoop 04.05.1828 in NGK

Cradock, s. 20.03.1867 in Palmietfontein, distr. Cradock. Anna:

(b1c1d1e1f5) geb. datum is s. datum van moeder.

Kinders:

12. i Petrus Johannes Venter #1454 g.

19.04.1859.

Hy trou (2) Adriana Bekker #3199, g. c. 1835, (dogter van Johan

Frederik Bekker #3200 en Johanna van Ginkel #3201). Adriana: b3.

Hy trou (3) Magdalena Catharina de Beer #3202, g. 08.08.1862,

(dogter van Jan Matthys de Beer #3203 en Magdalena Catharina du Plessis

#3204) gedoop 28.08.1862 in Tarka, dist. Cradock, s. 03.08.1899 in

Zuurfontein, dist. Molteno.

11. Anna Barbara Opperman #1453, (Sien huwelik om te nommer 10.)

Agtste Geslag

12. Petrus Johannes Venter #1454, g. 19.04.1859, gedoop 04.07.1859 in

Vlekpoort, s. 04.04.1932, begrawe in Graaff-Reinet. b5c4d1e1f2g3h5.

Hy trou 23.07.1883 in Cradock, Maria Christina Myburgh #245, g. c.

1858, (dogter van Jacobus Johannes Myburgh #248 en Maria Christina Pretorius

#249) s. 11.11.1947, begrawe in Graaff-Reinet. Maria: (b2c2d1e1f4g4).

Kinders:

13. i Pieter J Venter #730 g. 17.02.1885.

14. ii Jacobus Johannes Venter #230 g.

26.01.1888.

Negende Geslag

13. Pieter J Venter #730, g. 17.02.1885, s. 20.10.1968, begrawe in

Graaff-Reinet (Grootkerk, begr. pl.).

Hy trou Hendrina M Botha #1467, g. 1892, s. 24.10.1962, begrawe in

Graaff-Reinet (Grootkerk, begr. pl.). Hendrina: 70 jr. op grafsteen.

Kinders:

15. i Pieter Johnnie Venter #731 g. 04.01.1908.

14. Jacobus Johannes Venter #230, g. 26.01.1888, gedoop in Cradock, s.

15.08.1968, begrawe in Graaff-Reinet. (Kotie) Winkelier.

Hy trou Magdalena Anna Blom #231, g. 16.06.1895, (dogter van Jurgen

Hendrik Blom #232 en Gertruida Johanna Hechter #233) s. 29.02.1972, begrawe

in Graaff-Reinet.

Kinders:

16. i Petrus Johannes Venter #726 g.

12.07.1911.

ii Gertruida Johanna Venter #727, g.

12.03.1913, s. 24.10.1984, begrawe in Graaff-Reinet. Nooit getroud nie.

(Gertie).

17. iii Jurgen Hendrik Venter #728 g. 02.01.1915.

18. iv Maria Christina Myburgh Venter #729 g.

27.12.1916.

19. v Magdalena Anna Venter #5 g. 23.10.1919.

Tiende Geslag

15. Pieter Johnnie Venter #731, g. 04.01.1908, s. 18.09.1978, begrawe in

Graaff-Reinet.

Hy trou Aletta van Staden #732, g. 14.06.1909, s. 06.10.1983,

begrawe in Graaff-Reinet.

Kinders:

20. i Joey Venter #733.

ii Pieter Venter #734. Blykbaar nooit

getroud nie.

21. iii Martin Venter #735.

iv Hendrina Venter #736.

Sy trou NN Botha #3046.

v Adolf Venter #737.

vi Leon Venter #738, g. 17.07.1936, s.

02.10.1951, begrawe in Graaff-Reinet (Grootkerk begr. pl.).

16. Petrus Johannes Venter #726, g. 12.07.1911, s. 30.06.1976, begrawe in

Graaff-Reinet. (Peet) Winkelier.

Hy trou (1) Lucy Nash #1401.

Kinders:

22. i Owen Venter #1402 g. 12.01.1938.

Hy trou (2) Lucy Strydom #1415.

17. Jurgen Hendrik Venter #728, g. 02.01.1915, s. 13.02.1998 in

Graaff-Reinet, begrawe in Graaff-Reinet. (Jurgen) Sakeman.

Hy trou Elsie Sophia Johanna van Rooyen #1005, g. 20.06.1920 op

"Pypklip" dist. Kenhardt, (dogter van Gert Johannes van Rooyen #1416 en

Elizabeth Maria Catharina Steyn #3491) s. 30.11.1989 in Graaff-Reinet,

begrawe in Graaff-Reinet. Elsie: [b1c1d3e2] (Ella) Onderwyseres, sakevrou.

Kinders:

23. i Jacobus Johannes Venter #1006 g.

30.04.1942.

24. ii Elizabeth Venter #1008 g. 09.11.1950.

25. iii Gert Johannes Venter #1007 g. 09.04.1956.

18. Maria Christina Myburgh Venter #729, g. 27.12.1916, s. 09.03.1976,

begrawe in Graaff-Reinet. (Rietjie).

Sy trou Stephanus J Mynhardt #1417.

Kinders:

i Anton Mynhardt #3517, g. 28.08.1939,

s. 03.01.2007.

Hy trou (1) NN Strydom #3519.

Hy trou (2) Sussie NN #3520.

ii Magdalena Mynhardt #3518, g.

24.10.19--.

19. Magdalena Anna Venter #5, g. 23.10.1919 in Graaff-Reinet. (Lenie).

Sy trou 03.04.1937, Jacob Gerhardus Weideman #4, g. 20.11.1914 in

Aberdeen, Kaapprovinsie, (seun van Hendrikus Jacobus Weideman #10 en Maria

Elizabeth Momberg #11) begrawe .04.1989 in Graaff-Reinet, s. 09.04.1989 in

Port Elizabeth. Jacob: (b8c8d9e3f6) (Japie) Dosent onderwyserskollege,

Graaff-Reinet.

Kinders:

26. i Etienne Weideman #1 g. 16.01.1938.

27. ii Laurette Weideman #6 g. 16.02.1943.

Somerset-Wes

4a Re: 2 NAAIRS-vrae


"Caren Louw" caren.louw

Hallo Fina,

Doodsertifikate is verpligtend vanaf 1895 en van hulle is op FamilySearch

beskikbaar ("Cape Civil Deaths"). Jy kan doodsertifikate aanvra by

Binnelandse Sake, maar jy gaan baie spesifieke inligting oor die oorledene

moet kan verskaf, bv. ID nr.

Groete

Caren Louw

On Mon, 14 Dec 2015 12:29:48 +0200, 'Fina' [email protected]


> Middag!

>

> Annelie, weet jy dalk van watter datum „n DOODSERTIFIKAAT verpligtend

> geraak het? Dit is die een wat die dokter voltooi om te >se waaraan die

> persoon oorlede is?

>

> En, waar sou mens so „n dokument opspoor? Binnelandse sake?

>

> Groete vanuit „n heerlike REENERIGE Newcastle. (SO DANKBAAR!)

>

> Fina

>

> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]

> Sent: Monday, 14 December, 2015 4:40 AM

> To: [email protected]

> Subject: RE: [SA-Gen] 2 NAAIRS-vrae

>

> Hallo Anrie,

>

> Jy moet net onthou daar is `n GROOT verskil tussen `n STERFTEKENNIS en

> `n DOODSERTIFIKAAT.

>

> Die doodsertifikaat word deur die dokter ingevul en geteken om die

> afsterwe van `n persoon te registreer [sal ek dit noem].

>

> Die Sterftekennis kan deur enige iemand ingevul word.

>

> NAAIRS se boedels wat deur hulle geberg word stop by 1976 die res van

> dit word geberg by DOCU-FILES ek dink Mid Rand en om hulle te besigtig

> moet mens deur die Meesterskantoor werk.

>

> NAAIRS se komperstelsel werk nie op „soundex‟ soos FamilySearch nie… jy

> moet die presiese spelling van die word soos wat hy deur die persoon

> „ingepons‟ is gebruik anders gaan jy nie `n „hit‟ kry nie. Daar bestaan

> ook die moontlikheid dat daar `n fout tussen die nommer wat ingepons is

> en die >INDEX kan wees. Die index kom van die Meesterskantoor af.

>

> Vir my om al die boedels/dokumente wat betrekking het tot my

> navorsings-van „VAN DEN/R HEEVER‟ moet ek die „van den/r‟ los en net met

> die >HEEVER soek – met al die variante – hever – heever – hefer – heefer

> en ek moet ook ingedagte hou dat die HEFER van `n ander Stamvader is…

>

> Wat jou vraag oor die uitreik van `n Sterftekennis betref – dit word

> gewoonlik net ingevul wanneer daar een of ander BATE in `n boedel is.

>

> In my persoonlik geval is my oumagroot en ouma binne 20 min uitmekaar

> oorlede.. oumagroot het die laaste jare van haar lewe in die Robinson

> Hospitaal deurgebring weens haar swak gesondheid. My oupa het net vir

> ouma `n Sterftekennis ingevul, [getroud in gemeenskap van goedere en `n

> huis betrokke] maar nie vir oumagroot een nie.

> Ek het al met `n Boedel gewerk waar die persoon 2pond in `n Poskantoor

> boekie gehad het.

>

> Nie almal wat sterf gaan `n Sterftekennis hê nie maar na 1895 moes `n

> dood aangemeld word en dan sal daar `n Doodsertifikaat wees.

>

> Hoop dit beantwoord jou vraag.

>

> Groetnis.

>

> Annelie.

> Pretoria.

>

>

> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]

> Sent: 13 December 2015 11:57 PM

> To: sagenealogie

> Subject: [SA-Gen] 2 NAAIRS-vrae

>

> Goeienaand,

>

> Weet iemand hoe oud 'n sterfkennis moet wees voor dit deur NAAIRS

> geïndekseer word? En sou dit slegs op die betrokke persoon van

> toepassing >wees, of sou sy oorlewende eggenoot/te ook eers x jaar

> oorlede moet wees?

>

> Dan ook: vir sommige mense kry ek nie resultate tydens 'n NAAIRS-soektog

> nie. Nou het ek al een keer vanaand in die FamilySearch-katalogus 'n

> >sterfkennis uit die eerste helfte van die 1900s gekry wat nie deur

> NAAIRS geïndekseer is nie, dus neem ek aan daar sal nog wees. Maar kan

> dit ook >wees dat daar glad nie 'n sterfkennis uitgereik is vir sommige

> persone nie?

> Groete,

> Anrie

5a Re: SA Kaart met beskikbare Kerkargiewe


"Caren Louw" caren.louw

Anrie,

Dit is nou 'n blink idee, baie dankie. Ek gaan beslis jou kaart raadpleeg

vir my doodloopstrate.

Groete

Caren Louw

On Mon, 14 Dec 2015 15:27:06 +0200, Anrie Hoogendoorn

[email protected] [SAGenealogie] <[email protected]>

wrote:

> Goeiemiddag:

>

> Vir my persoonlike gebruik het ek die volgende kaart geskep, of liewer,

> is ek eintlik nog besig om die volgende kaar te skep, maar gedink ander

> kan dit >ook miskien gebruik:

>

> https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zHayrTv9YK6I.kt_JKY6T7xMQ&usp=sharing

>

> Dit is 'n kaart waarop ek probeer aandui vir watse plekke daar

> kerkargiewe aanlyn beskikbaar is.

>

> Ek het die idee gekry nadat Debbie Pretorius my spesifieke dorpies

> aangeraai het om na te soek, ná ek iemand nie in George se doopregister

> kon kry >nie. Mens weet nie altyd watse dorpies is naby die plek waar

> jou doodloopstraat gebore/getroud/gesterf is nie, of daar rekords by

> daardie nabygeleë >dorpies is, ens.

> Mens kan ongelukkig nie soek na dorpies nie, so jy sal moet navigeer na

> die betrokke dorp en dan kyk wat in die omgewing beskikbaar is.

>

> Ek is nog lank nie klaar nie, maar daar is al heelwat daar, so ek het

> gedink ek deel dit solank, vir ingeval daar ander is wat dit ook nuttig

> kan vind.

>

> Terloops, as daar webwerwes behalwe eGGSA en FamilySearch is wat

> kerkargiewe aanbied, hoor ek dit graag. Ander kommentaar en korreksies

> is ook welkom.

> Groete,

> Anrie





1a Re: SA Kaart met beskikbare Kerkargiewe by "Matthew Wicks" mattywix

1b Re: SA Kaart met beskikbare Kerkargiewe by pieter_j_venter

2a DU PREEZ-NAVRAAG by "Johan Brink"

2b DU PREEZ-NAVRAAG by "Johan Brink"

3 Skotse kerke by "Rentia Landman" rentiareid

4a Re: MA Vednter oorlede by "Elmien Wood"

4b Re: MA Venter oorlede by "E Weideman" etienne.weideman

5 [Press] The Mercury 16 Dec 2015 by "Aletta Magrieta Quebbemann" alettaqea9fac

Messages

1a Re: SA Kaart met beskikbare Kerkargiewe


"Matthew Wicks" mattywix

Baie dankie Anrie!!

Jy het 'n baie belangrik stukkie werk daar gedoen.

Dit sal ook nuttig wees as die dorpies met Grahamstown biblioteek

rekords ook gemerk is.

Maar wat my bekommer is die verandering van plek name onder die nuwe

regering - Ek dink Google wys nie die ou korrekte name nie.

Groete

Matthew

1b Re: SA Kaart met beskikbare Kerkargiewe


pieter_j_venter

Dagsê Anrie,

Jy is besig met 'n puik stuk werk met hierdie kaart van jou.

Ek woon in Elliot in die Noordoos Kaap en my vrou kom van Ida (tussen Indwe en Elliot) waar jou Du-

Plessis Gemeente aangedui is.

Die grense van die du-Plessis Gemeente moet net heelwat meer noord uitgebrei word. In die suide was

slegs Cala dorp deel van die gemeente. Ida was die hoof gemeente in kombinasie met Cala (Transkei) en

Lady Frere (Transkei). Die pastorie was in Ida, wat nie op kaarte aangedui word nie. Ida is meer 'n

plaasgemeenskap as 'n dorp. Daar was 'n spoorwegstasie, 'n poskantoor, polisiestasie, NG en Metodiste

Kerke, 2 winkels en 'n laerskool met twee onderwysers.

Lady Frere is net Oos van die Glen Grey Hospitaal wat wel op jou kaart gemerk is. Die dorp se uitleg kan

op jou kaart gesien word.

Die du Plessis gemeente het dus bestaan uit Ida se plaasgemeenskap, Cala dorp se inwoners en Lady Frere

dorp se inwoners.

Nadat my skoonmoeder en swaer (Hermien en Ruben Gouws) op 15 Augustus 2015 op hulle plaas vermoor

is, is daar slegs drie families van die oud inwoners in Ida oor. Daar is nog elke 2'de Sondag kerk, maar die

gemeente val nou onder Indwe.

Die du Plessis kombinasie is ontbind in die vroë 70's.

Kontak my gerus per epos dan kan ek die grense vir jou aandui en sommer die Ida NG kerk en Metodiste

kerk ook merk. Toevallig is ons in die kerkie op Ida getroud op 1.1.1980.

Vriendelike Ooskaap groete,

Pieter Venter.

2a DU PREEZ-NAVRAAG


"Johan Brink"

Goeiemiddag aan die DU PREEZ-kenners,

Ek het 'n navraag by 'n vriendin oor haar grootouers gekry. Wat ek reeds het is die volgende:

Petrus Jacobus DU PREEZ *c.1872 {aangeneem op 20jr te NGK Oudtshoorn 23.9.1892 en voorgestel

24.9.1892 [NGK Oudtsh Lidmaatrgstr]} x Maria Catharina {Roberta} ZEELIE *27/28.5.1882 =NGK

George 10.8.1882, dv Frederick Christoffel (6.10.1842-1912) en (x Oudtshoorn 27.12.1867) Rachel Jacoba

Petronella née VAN KOPPEN (c.1839-14.9.1895 [Rachel J.P. se SK/boedel per KAB MOOC 6/9/344-

2099/1895]) [SAG CD 17, p80]

Hulle het vermoedelik 'n kroos van 3s 2d gehad.

Kan iemand dalk help met die sterfbesonderhede van die grootouers asook (moontlik) die name van die vyf

kinders?

Baie dankie by voorbaat.

Weskus-groete!

Johan

Melkbosstrand

082 328 9453

[GEBRUIK VOORTAAN MY NUWE E-ADRES]

2b DU PREEZ-NAVRAAG


"Johan Brink"

Goeiemôre aan die DU PREEZ-kenners,

Ek het 'n navraag by 'n vriendin oor haar grootouers gekry. Wat ek reeds het is die volgende:

Petrus Jacobus DU PREEZ *c.1872 {aangeneem op 20jr te NGK Oudtshoorn 23.9.1892 en voorgestel

24.9.1892 [NGK Oudtsh Lidmaatrgstr]} x Maria Catharina {Roberta} ZEELIE *27/28.5.1882 =NGK

George 10.8.1882, dv Frederick Christoffel (6.10.1842-1912) en (x Oudtshoorn 27.12.1867) Rachel Jacoba

Petronella née VAN KOPPEN (c.1839-14.9.1895 [Rachel J.P. se SK/boedel per KAB MOOC 6/9/344-

2099/1895]) [SAG CD 17, p80]

Hulle het vermoedelik 'n kroos van 3s 2d gehad.

Kan iemand dalk help met die sterfbesonderhede van die grootouers asook (moontlik) die name van die vyf

kinders?

Baie dankie by voorbaat.

Weskus-groete!

Johan

Melkbosstrand

082 328 9453

[GEBRUIK VOORTAAN MY NUWE E-ADRES]

3 Skotse kerke


"Rentia Landman" rentiareid

Genvriende

Ek kom op hierdie webblad af wat vir my baie plesier gee

http://www.scottishchurches.org.uk/ in my soeke na my Reid-voorgeslag. Gaan

na Search database, tik die dorp in en dan kry mens foto's van die kerk

binne en buite en die geskiedenis van wanneer is dit opgerig en veranderinge

aan die struktuur aangebring is.

Daar is ook 'n padkaart by vir diegene wat dit wil besoek maar met die

waarde van die Rand besoek die meeste van ons dit liewers via die rekenaar.

Groete

Rentia

4a Re: MA Vednter oorlede


"Elmien Wood"

Hallo Etienne

My innige simpatie. Wat ŉ geseënde lewe van 96 Jaar.

Groete

Elmien




Subject: [SA-Gen] MA Vednter oorlede

Goeiedag lede,

My moeder is gisteroggend (15.12.2015) oorlede op Graaf-Reinet in die ouderdom van 96 jaar.


Sy trou 03.04.1937, Jacob Gerhardus Weideman #4, g. 20.11.1914 in Aberdeen, Kaapprovinsie, (seun van

Hendrikus Jacobus Weideman #10 en Maria Elizabeth Momberg #11) begrawe in Graaff-Reinet, s.

09.04.1989 in Port Elizabeth. Jacob: (b8c8d9e3f6) (Japie) Dosent onderwyserskollege, Graaff-Reinet.

Vir die Venter navorsers (en ander vanne!), ‟n kort uittreksel uit my Brothers Keeper program (Ek het

heelwat meer inligting wat nog nie in BK program bygevoeg is nie):

Sewende Geslag

10. Pieter Jacobus Venter #1452, g. 11.01.1821, gedoop 10.03.1822 in Cradock. b5c4d1e1f2g3.

Hy trou (1) 21.05.1843 in Cradock, Anna Barbara Opperman #1453, g. 11.04.1828 in Vlekpoort, dist.

Cradock, (dogter van Christiaan Rudolph Opperman #3185 en Anna Barbara Venter #3186) gedoop

04.05.1828 in NGK Cradock, s. 20.03.1867 in Palmietfontein, distr. Cradock. Anna: (b1c1d1e1f5) geb.

datum is s. datum van moeder.

Kinders:

12. i Petrus Johannes Venter #1454 g. 19.04.1859.

Hy trou (2) Adriana Bekker #3199, g. c. 1835, (dogter van Johan Frederik Bekker #3200 en Johanna van

Ginkel #3201). Adriana: b3.

Hy trou (3) Magdalena Catharina de Beer #3202, g. 08.08.1862, (dogter van Jan Matthys de Beer #3203 en

Magdalena Catharina du Plessis #3204) gedoop 28.08.1862 in Tarka, dist. Cradock, s. 03.08.1899 in

Zuurfontein, dist. Molteno.

11. Anna Barbara Opperman #1453, (Sien huwelik om te nommer 10.)

Agtste Geslag

12. Petrus Johannes Venter #1454, g. 19.04.1859, gedoop 04.07.1859 in Vlekpoort, s. 04.04.1932, begrawe

in Graaff-Reinet. b5c4d1e1f2g3h5.

Hy trou 23.07.1883 in Cradock, Maria Christina Myburgh #245, g. c. 1858, (dogter van Jacobus Johannes

Myburgh #248 en Maria Christina Pretorius #249) s. 11.11.1947, begrawe in Graaff-Reinet. Maria:

(b2c2d1e1f4g4).

Kinders:

13. i Pieter J Venter #730 g. 17.02.1885.

14. ii Jacobus Johannes Venter #230 g. 26.01.1888.

Negende Geslag

13. Pieter J Venter #730, g. 17.02.1885, s. 20.10.1968, begrawe in Graaff-Reinet (Grootkerk, begr. pl.).

Hy trou Hendrina M Botha #1467, g. 1892, s. 24.10.1962, begrawe in Graaff-Reinet (Grootkerk, begr. pl.).

Hendrina: 70 jr. op grafsteen.

Kinders:

15. i Pieter Johnnie Venter #731 g. 04.01.1908.

14. Jacobus Johannes Venter #230, g. 26.01.1888, gedoop in Cradock, s. 15.08.1968, begrawe in Graaff-

Reinet. (Kotie) Winkelier.

Hy trou Magdalena Anna Blom #231, g. 16.06.1895, (dogter van Jurgen Hendrik Blom #232 en Gertruida

Johanna Hechter #233) s. 29.02.1972, begrawe in Graaff-Reinet.

Kinders:

16. i Petrus Johannes Venter #726 g. 12.07.1911.

ii Gertruida Johanna Venter #727, g. 12.03.1913, s. 24.10.1984, begrawe in Graaff-Reinet. Nooit getroud

nie. (Gertie).

17. iii Jurgen Hendrik Venter #728 g. 02.01.1915.

18. iv Maria Christina Myburgh Venter #729 g. 27.12.1916.

19. v Magdalena Anna Venter #5 g. 23.10.1919.

Tiende Geslag

15. Pieter Johnnie Venter #731, g. 04.01.1908, s. 18.09.1978, begrawe in Graaff-Reinet.

Hy trou Aletta van Staden #732, g. 14.06.1909, s. 06.10.1983, begrawe in Graaff-Reinet.

Kinders:

20. i Joey Venter #733.

ii Pieter Venter #734. Blykbaar nooit getroud nie.

21. iii Martin Venter #735.

iv Hendrina Venter #736.

Sy trou NN Botha #3046.

v Adolf Venter #737.

vi Leon Venter #738, g. 17.07.1936, s. 02.10.1951, begrawe in Graaff-Reinet (Grootkerk begr. pl.).

16. Petrus Johannes Venter #726, g. 12.07.1911, s. 30.06.1976, begrawe in Graaff-Reinet. (Peet) Winkelier.

Hy trou (1) Lucy Nash #1401.

Kinders:

22. i Owen Venter #1402 g. 12.01.1938.

Hy trou (2) Lucy Strydom #1415.

17. Jurgen Hendrik Venter #728, g. 02.01.1915, s. 13.02.1998 in Graaff-Reinet, begrawe in Graaff-Reinet.

(Jurgen) Sakeman.

Hy trou Elsie Sophia Johanna van Rooyen #1005, g. 20.06.1920 op "Pypklip" dist. Kenhardt, (dogter van

Gert Johannes van Rooyen #1416 en Elizabeth Maria Catharina Steyn #3491) s. 30.11.1989 in Graaff-

Reinet, begrawe in Graaff-Reinet. Elsie: [b1c1d3e2] (Ella) Onderwyseres, sakevrou.

Kinders:

23. i Jacobus Johannes Venter #1006 g. 30.04.1942.

24. ii Elizabeth Venter #1008 g. 09.11.1950.

25. iii Gert Johannes Venter #1007 g. 09.04.1956.

18. Maria Christina Myburgh Venter #729, g. 27.12.1916, s. 09.03.1976, begrawe in Graaff-Reinet.

(Rietjie).

Sy trou Stephanus J Mynhardt #1417.

Kinders:

i Anton Mynhardt #3517, g. 28.08.1939, s. 03.01.2007.

Hy trou (1) NN Strydom #3519.

Hy trou (2) Sussie NN #3520.

ii Magdalena Mynhardt #3518, g. 24.10.19--.

19. Magdalena Anna Venter #5, g. 23.10.1919 in Graaff-Reinet. (Lenie).

Sy trou 03.04.1937, Jacob Gerhardus Weideman #4, g. 20.11.1914 in Aberdeen, Kaapprovinsie, (seun van

Hendrikus Jacobus Weideman #10 en Maria Elizabeth Momberg #11) begrawe .04.1989 in Graaff-Reinet,

s. 09.04.1989 in Port Elizabeth. Jacob: (b8c8d9e3f6) (Japie) Dosent onderwyserskollege, Graaff-Reinet.

Kinders:

26. i Etienne Weideman #1 g. 16.01.1938.

27. ii Laurette Weideman #6 g. 16.02.1943.

Somerset-Wes

4b Re: MA Venter oorlede



Baie dankie Elmien,

Met waardering,

Etienne


Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2015 5:43 PM


Subject: RE: [SA-Gen] MA Vednter oorlede

Hallo Etienne

My innige simpatie. Wat ŉ geseënde lewe van 96 Jaar.

Groete

Elmien




Subject: [SA-Gen] MA Vednter oorlede

Goeiedag lede,

My moeder is gisteroggend (15.12.2015) oorlede op Graaf-Reinet in die ouderdom van 96 jaar.


(Knip)

5 [Press] The Mercury 16 Dec 2015



Dag vriende,

QUICKQUIP:-" Arithmatic is being able to count up to 20 without taking off

your shoes." -Mickey MOUSE.

BIRTH:- HARDING nee MILBANK Andrew & Michelle a girl Julie * 14 Dec 2015 in

Parklands. Sister for Emma.

MARRIAGES:- ANTHONY Lyhdon & Kirsten married at Talloula Hillcrest. (photo).

CHETTY DeJoshnie Ramsamy & Elisha CHETTY married at Truro Hall Westville.

(photo).

FORDMAN Matt & Nicola SUNKEL married at Rain Farm Umhlali.(photo).

LUWAZI Zola Hoadley & Lwandlekazi Vuyokazi MQEDLANA married at Harthford

House in the Midlands. (photo).

RAMBALLY Reshen & Shaina TULSI married at Hellenic Community Centre Durban

North. (photo).

RUMLUTCH Jeeten & Preoshnee married at Oasis Conference Centre, Durban.

(photo).

DEATHS:- COLEMAN nee MOONEY Jean 23 June 1928 ----14 Dec 2015. Wife,Mother,

sister, grand and greatgrandmother.; Memorial at Kloof Methodist Church in

Park Lane Kloof on 17 Dec 2015 at 10am. BELL 031 3014793.

DE VILLIERS Lesley Gayle . Memorial at Baker Manor Kloof on 17 Dec 2014 at

10am, BELL 031 3014793.

FENN Brad + 12 Dec 2015 .Die had Leukemia x Angela. Father of Ruby and

Logan. Memorial at The Rock Christian Church Sunningdale on 17 Dec 2015 at

11h00.

MC NAIR Yvonne Joy 26 April 1938 ---15 Dec 2015 x Ronald Neil. Mother to

Moira Belinda, Norma Ruth, Gordon Allister and grandmother of Taralynne,

Mats and Hakon. No Memorial Aervice and private cremation. DOVES 0860025500.

PHIPSON Peggy x Desmond for 68 years. Mother of Michael and Rene.

Mother-in-law of Faith and James. Grandmother of Daryl , Paul, Ryan,

Jannine, Richard, Kirsty and great-grandmother of 7. Memorial Service on 17

Dec 2015 at Fynnlands Baptist Church Bluff at 10am.

VAN DER MERWE nee SHEARD Phyllis Amy 26 Jan 1923 ----14 Dec 2015 . Mother of

Des and Cyndy. Mother-in-law of Trevor and Sandra. Grandmother of Marlon and

Karin, Simone and Johan, Darryn and Candice, Brendan and Carol, Jaydan and

Michaela. Great-grandmother of Kara, Spencer and Kloe. Memorial Service

Private.

MEMORIAM:- BROWN Duncan (Doggie). 12 years gone now. Remembered by wife

Marie. Father of Craig, Vanessa, Lloyd, Nicole and their families.

MILBURN Hindman James (Jimmy) 20 years today. Husband of Nancy. Father of

Lyn (BRINK), Nigel, Jenny (EAST), Gary , Tempest ,grand and

great-grandchildren.

KENTON Byron Dean 7 Aug 1971 ---16 Dec 2005. Son , Brother and uncle of

Clive, Viv, Lauren and Dylan.

Gegroet uit alreeds warm oggend in Durban. (Strand weer).

Rita Quebbemann.



Daar is 1 boodskap in hierdie uitgawe

Onderwerp in hierdie bundel:

1a Re: Daniel Johannes BOTHMA by "Ockert Mostert" mcgyvermos

Message

1a Re: Daniel Johannes BOTHMA


"Ockert Mostert" mcgyvermos

Goeie middag lyslede.

Weet iemand moontlik of die Pretoria Argief oop sal

wees op Maandag 21 Desember? Ek kan nie deurkom op hul telefoon nr. Nie

Byvoorbaat dankie.

Ockert

On 08 Dec 2015 7:59 AM, "'Dennis Pretorius' [email protected]

[SAGenealogie]" <[email protected]> wrote:

>

> Hallo almal

>

> Kan iemand my dalk help met die ouers van ene Daniel Johannes BOTHMA wat

> ongeveer 1920 getrou het met Hendrina Stoffelina Mey DE BEER

>

> Hulle is albei gebore ongeveer 1895-1900

>

> Daniel is oorlede in 1939 in Belfast. Ek het Daniel se sterftekennis by

> Annelie gekry maar sy ouers se name ontbreek op die sterftekennis.

>

> Ek kon ook nie 'n BOTHMA register iewers opspoor nie - weet iemand dalk van

> so'n register ?

>

> Dennis Pretorius

>

> Krugersdorp South Africa

> Tel - 011-762-8911

> Cel - 083-679-8541

> Fax - 086-609-8541





1 Emailing: HEDWIG VENTER IMG_1716 by "Hendrik Strydom"

2a Re: DU PREEZ-NAVRAAG by "Andrew Kok" jakok2001

3a Re: Van Rooyen by "Chris" chrismeyer4219

4a VAN ZYL Sk, asb by "Hendrik at Loogkolk" loogkolk09

4b Re: VAN ZYL Sk, asb by "Annelie Els" engelkind2000

4c Re: VAN ZYL Sk, asb by "Hendrik at Loogkolk" loogkolk09

4d Re: VAN ZYL Sk, asb by "Annelie Els" engelkind2000

5 [Press] The Mercury Friday 18 Dec 2015 by "Aletta Magrieta Quebbemann" alettaqea9fac

6a Re: MA Vednter oorlede by "Magda Schoeman"

7 [Press] The Mercury Friday 18 Dec 2015 CREDITORS .... by "Aletta Magrieta Quebbemann"

alettaqea9fac

Messages

1 Emailing: HEDWIG VENTER IMG_1716


"Hendrik Strydom"

Goeie dag

Na aanleiding van Daan Botes se artikel in Genesis stuur ek die foto van

Hedwig Venter en haar man GCD Venter se grafsteen in die Tarkastadse

begraafplaas.

Vriendelike groete

Hendrik strydom

Your message is ready to be sent with the following file or link

attachments:

HEDWIG VENTER IMG_1716

2a Re: DU PREEZ-NAVRAAG


"Andrew Kok" jakok2001

Johan

Die kinders is

Petrus Jacobus, * 03/02/1913

Frederik Johannes, * 13/10/1914

Petronelle Rolina, * 26/02/1917

Elizabeth Gertruida, * 23/08/1919

petrus Christoffel, * 02/02/1921

Die grootouers was Pieter Jacobus du Preez en Elizabeth Gertruida Heyn.

Geen sterfbesonderhede nie.

Dit kom uit Thys du Preez se boek wat by die Hugenote Vereniging beskikbaar

is.

Groete

Andrew Kok

Dr Andrew Kok

Durbanville

082 500 6758

3a Re: Van Rooyen



Hi Jaco en ander.

Hierdie is nogal 'n netelige sakie, en kan mens seker op party mense se

tone trap, maar ek het 'n verduideliking soos ek dit by my oupa gekry

het. Baie jare gelede het van die anderskleurige mense op sy plaas

gewerk. Hulle was vrugte en druiwe boere in die Bonnievale distrik langs

die Breerivier. Saterdag word die 'Volk' op die vragmotor gelaai, en

almal gaan dorp toe (Robertson). Hul word vooraf gewaarsku om een uur by

so en so winkel te wees vir die terugtog huistoe.

My oupa se naam was Piet Meyer. Nou loop die 'volk' die dorp vol rond en

doen inkopies. Daar is natuurlik baie ander 'volk' van ander plase ook

in die dorp. Goed kom ons sê maar ons 'volk' se voorman se naam is

David. 'n Ander man sien hom en vra vir sy familie, wie is daai ou? Die

antwoord is: 'Ek ken hom nie eintlik so goed nie, maar dit is David van

Oom Piet Meyer se plaas'. Met die tyd word hy nou algemeen bekend as

"David van die Meyer's". David like dit en neem sommer die van aan

later as David Meyer! ,- en laat hom dan ook so registreer op sy ID.

So word die hele anderskleurige gesin Meyer's. Oom Piet kan dit nie keer

of iets daaraan doen nie, en aanvaar dit maar so. Wel dit is maar my

nederige bydrae tot die oorsprong van duisende ander Afrikaanse vanne

wat so oorgespoel het.

Kruisig my maar as ek gesondig het.

Kerfees groete, en lekker kuier.

Chris Meyer,

Mosselbaai.

4a VAN ZYL Sk, asb



Help asseblief, het iemand miskien al die SK opgesoek?

Met dank

Hendrik LOUW

KAB

SOURCE MOOC

TYPE LEER

VOLUME_NO 6/9/534

SYSTEM 01

REFERENCE 3311

PART 1

DESCRIPTION VAN ZYL, GIDEON JACOBUS. DEATH NOTICE.

STARTING 19050000

ENDING 19050000

4b Re: VAN ZYL Sk, asb



Hallo Hendrik,

Dis by die skakel beskikbaar.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSQ8-3S95-J?cat=331262

Groetnis.

Annelie.



To: [email protected]; [email protected]

Subject: [SA-Gen] VAN ZYL Sk, asb


Met dank

Hendrik LOUW

KAB

SOURCE MOOC

TYPE LEER

VOLUME_NO 6/9/534

SYSTEM 01

REFERENCE 3311

PART 1


STARTING 19050000

ENDING 19050000

4c Re: VAN ZYL Sk, asb



Wow Annelie, net die een wat ek soek, dankie

Nou is nog 'n VAN ZYL / DE KLERK skakel opgelos

Groete

Hendrik LOUW

VAN ZYL Register:-

e9 Gideon Jacobus Albertus * 22.1.1813 ? Graaff-Reinet 31.10.1813 x Frederika Wilhelmina

LOMBAARD ? 14.2.1818 d.v. Anthonie Lombaard en Elizabeth Johanna Alida Meyer

f1 Gideon Jacobus ? Colesberg 2.3.1838 ? Geluksfontein, distr. Winburg 9.10.1904 [66 jr 8 mde _ dae] x

Sophia Aletta Jacoba DE KLERK

_____________________________________________

DE KLERK REGISTER

e6 Willem Abraham DE KLERK* 5.01.1824 ? Cradock 4.10.1824 veeboer Stapelbergskraal, Molteno ?

Stapelbergskraal 18.01.1904 x Colesberg (Stormloopspruit) 6.03.1843 Elsje Johanna Dorothea VORSTER

* dist Cradock 28.01.1825 ? Cradock 30.10.1825 ? Stapelbergskraal 29.06.1860 d.v. Johannes Hendrik

Vorster & Sophia Aletta Jacoba Meyer xx Burgersdorp 24.09.1860 Hester Catharina Petronella (H Lasya

P) VAN ZYL (moontlik * "over de grensen" 31/5/1844)

f1 Sophia Aletta Jacoba DE KLERK * dist Burgersdorp 28.01.1844 ? Cradock 22.03.1844 ? 10.09.1881

man se huis, Klipplaat, Aliwal-Noord x Burgersdorp 29.07.1861 Gideon Jacobus VAN ZYL (ZIJL) *

Kaapkolonie c 1838 veeboer Klipplaat ? Geluksfontein, dist Winburg, OVS 9.10.1904 s.v. Gideon Jacobus

van Zyl & Frederika Lombaard, 8 kinders

________________________________________________

g1 Gideon Jacobus

g2 Frederika x A. M. Van TONDER

g3 Sophia Jacoba x H. L. NIEUWENHUYS

g4 Johannes Hendrik

g5 Barend Jacobus

g6 Elizabeth Petronella x S. KRUGER

g7 Antonie Johannes

g8 Catharina Aletta x I LIEBENBERG

f2 Petronella Margrieta * 2.7.1839 ? Colesberg 7.10.1839

f3 Aletta Catharina * 2.12.1840 ? Colesberg 17.2.1841

f4 Frederika Willemina * 4.8.1842 ? over Sterrenbergspruit, Cradock 5.2.1843

f5 Maria Cornelia * over de grenzen 11.5.1844 ? Cradock 26.6.1844

f6 Hester Catharina Maria * over de grenzen 4.4.1846 ? Cradock 26.12.1846

f7 Anthonie Johannes * 18.7.1849 ? Burgersdorp 21.11.1849

f8 Cornelia Margritha * 15.6.1851 ? Burgersdorp 29.9.1851

f9 Johannes Antonie * 25.12.1852 ? Burgersdorp 20.3.1853 x Aliwal-Noord 3.7.1882 Barbara Jacomina

Susanna VAN TONDER * c. 1865

f10 Elsje Philippina * 7.9.1857 ? Aliwal-Noord 20.6.1858

From: 'Annelie Els' [email protected] [SAGenealogie]



Subject: RE: [SA-Gen] VAN ZYL Sk, asb

Hallo Hendrik,

Dis by die skakel beskikbaar.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSQ8-3S95-J?cat=331262

Groetnis.

Annelie.



To: [email protected]; [email protected]

Subject: [SA-Gen] VAN ZYL Sk, asb


Met dank

Hendrik LOUW

KAB

SOURCE MOOC

TYPE LEER

VOLUME_NO 6/9/534

SYSTEM 01

REFERENCE 3311

PART 1


STARTING 19050000

ENDING 19050000

4d Re: VAN ZYL Sk, asb



Plesier:

Die LIEBENBERG van g8 se data soos volg…

Isaak Johannes * 24 Mar 1864 Victoria Wes – sterf 8 Aug 1919 Winburg, OFS

op die plaas Erffontein. [VAB MHG L1864]

Seun van Philippus Jacobus Liebenberg en Hester Maria vd Merwe.

Dankie nou het ek haar ouers se data.

Grts.

Annelie.

*Annelie Els*

*Pretoria.*

annelie(at)who-els(dot)co(dot)za

2015-12-18 18:41 GMT+02:00 'Hendrik at Loogkolk' [email protected]


> Wow Annelie, net die een wat ek soek, dankie

>

> Nou is nog 'n VAN ZYL / DE KLERK skakel opgelos

>

> Groete

> Hendrik LOUW

>

> VAN ZYL Register:-

>

> e9 Gideon Jacobus Albertus * 22.1.1813 ≈ Graaff-Reinet 31.10.1813 x

> Frederika Wilhelmina LOMBAARD ≈ 14.2.1818 d.v. Anthonie Lombaard en

> Elizabeth Johanna Alida Meyer

>

> f1 Gideon Jacobus ≈ Colesberg 2.3.1838 † Geluksfontein, distr.

> Winburg 9.10.1904 [66 jr 8 mde _ dae] x Sophia Aletta Jacoba DE KLERK

>

> _____________________________________________

>

> DE KLERK REGISTER

>

> e6 Willem Abraham DE KLERK* 5.01.1824 ≈ Cradock 4.10.1824 veeboer

> Stapelbergskraal, Molteno † Stapelbergskraal 18.01.1904 x Colesberg

> (Stormloopspruit) 6.03.1843 Elsje Johanna Dorothea VORSTER * dist Cradock

> 28.01.1825 ≈ Cradock 30.10.1825 † Stapelbergskraal 29.06.1860 d.v. Johannes

> Hendrik Vorster & Sophia Aletta Jacoba Meyer xx Burgersdorp 24.09.1860

> Hester Catharina Petronella (H Lasya P) VAN ZYL (moontlik * "over de

> grensen" 31/5/1844)

>

> f1 Sophia Aletta Jacoba DE KLERK * dist Burgersdorp 28.01.1844 ≈

> Cradock 22.03.1844 † 10.09.1881 man se huis, Klipplaat, Aliwal-Noord x

> Burgersdorp 29.07.1861 Gideon Jacobus VAN ZYL (ZIJL) * Kaapkolonie c 1838

> veeboer Klipplaat † Geluksfontein, dist Winburg, OVS 9.10.1904 s.v. Gideon

> Jacobus van Zyl & Frederika Lombaard, 8 kinders

>

> ________________________________________________

>

> g1 Gideon Jacobus

> g2 Frederika x A. M. Van TONDER

> g3 Sophia Jacoba x H. L. NIEUWENHUYS

> g4 Johannes Hendrik

> g5 Barend Jacobus

> g6 Elizabeth Petronella x S. KRUGER

> g7 Antonie Johannes

> g8 Catharina Aletta x I LIEBENBERG

>

> f2 Petronella Margrieta * 2.7.1839 ≈ Colesberg 7.10.1839

> f3 Aletta Catharina * 2.12.1840 ≈ Colesberg 17.2.1841

> f4 Frederika Willemina * 4.8.1842 ≈ over Sterrenbergspruit, Cradock

> 5.2.1843

> f5 Maria Cornelia * over de grenzen 11.5.1844 ≈ Cradock 26.6.1844

> f6 Hester Catharina Maria * over de grenzen 4.4.1846 ≈ Cradock

> 26.12.1846

> f7 Anthonie Johannes * 18.7.1849 ≈ Burgersdorp 21.11.1849

> f8 Cornelia Margritha * 15.6.1851 ≈ Burgersdorp 29.9.1851

> f9 Johannes Antonie * 25.12.1852 ≈ Burgersdorp 20.3.1853 x

> Aliwal-Noord 3.7.1882 Barbara Jacomina Susanna VAN TONDER * c. 1865

> f10 Elsje Philippina * 7.9.1857 ≈ Aliwal-Noord 20.6.1858

>

>

> *From:* 'Annelie Els' [email protected] [SAGenealogie]

> <[email protected]+[SAGenealogie]>


> *Sent:* Friday, December 18, 2015 6:19 PM

> *Subject:* RE: [SA-Gen] VAN ZYL Sk, asb

>

> Hallo Hendrik,

>

> Dis by die skakel beskikbaar.

>

> https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSQ8-3S95-J?cat=331262

>

> Groetnis.

> Annelie.

(Knip)

5 [Press] The Mercury Friday 18 Dec 2015



Dag vriende,

QUICKQUIP:- "I Like nonsence, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a

necessary ingredient in living, it's a way of looking at life through the

wrong end of a telescope. Which is what I do. And that enables you to laugh

at life's realities. " - Dr SEUSS.

So 'n ietsie van vroeer jare advertensie:- Lux soap. "You won him , now you

must keep him. Don't let cosmetic skin spoil your good looks."

" The ideal brain tonic -Coca-Cola."

BIRTH:- HAMBLIN Tamara & Paul a girl Elayna Michelle . Congratulation from

Mom & Dad RANKIN.

ENGAGEMENTS:- GOLDBERG Larri & Lori, Pete & Avril announce engagement of

Keagan & Candice.

DEATHS:- BAILEY John Neil 23 July 1946 -----16 Dec 2015. Brother of Audrey,

Gary , Samantha and Bradley.; Brother of Noreen, Audrey & Colleen.

BRAUDE Dr Theodore Gerald (Ted) 25 Maarch 1945 --------16 Dec 2015 Husband

of Loretta and father of Nils and Bonnie. Funeral at Red Hill Jewish

Cemetery on 18 Dec 2015 at 11am.

CHETTIAR Pendora Deborah . Daughter of Alice Ruth & Eric Sylvan. Mother of

Marvin, Monique and + Leishen OGLE. Sister to Errol, Cheryl, Isobel, Joey,

Elizabeth and Quinton. Funeral on 19 Dec 2015 at Christ The King Parish

Wentworth. Viewing at 09:30am Service at 10am. Cremation private . ISIPINGO

INC PAM'S 031 9022444.

GARDENER Hanne Elizabeth. Memorial tea at North Diningroom at Amberfield

Retirement Village Howick on 21 Dec 2015 at 10:30am. TEL:- John GARDENER 033

239 2185.

HAYWOOD Tanya Colette 21 Nov 1974 ---15 Dec 2015. Mother of Avia. Daughter

of Janine & + Louis. Stepdaughter of Pat. Sister of Calvin and Tandi and

aunt to Catherine, Holly and Tayob. Service on 22 Dec 2015 at 3pm at

Methodist Church Umhlali.

HOLDEN Margaret 1 Dec 1927 ----12 Dec 2015. RIP . BELL 031 3014793

LETTMAN Anthony Patrick of Newlands East. Funeral at Kingdom Living

Ministries Newlands East on 19 Dec 2015 at 10am. Proceeding to Stellawood

Cemetery. ISIPINGO INC PAM'S 031 9022444.

MAKKIE Adrienne Louise 27 Oct 1935 ----12 Dec 2015. Funeral at Bethshan

Tabernacle Overport at 10am. Viewing commence from 0930am. DOVES 0860025500.

SMITH Pamela Eileen . Funeral at St Barnabas Anglican Church Bluff on 22 Dec

2015 at 10am.

SNOOK Marie 27 June 1930 ----16 Dec 2015. Mother, grand and

great-grandmother. Strictly private cremation.

WALDECK N.M. (Ouma) of Austerville. Funeral at the Old Apostolic Church

Corner of Amoora Rd. at 10am on 19 Dec 2015 . MARTIN'S 031 312 8095.

MEMORIAM:- BALLANTYNE Dennis . 5 years gone today. Remembered by Lorraine

and Dave.

MULQUEENY Saul. Remembered by Carmen, Danielle and Tristan.

NAIDOO Dershan (Dean) 1987 ---28 Feb 2015. Yearly Memorial at R.B. Chetty

Hall Phoenix on 20 Dec 2015 at 11:30---12:30pm Lunch will be served from

12:45 , Tea /Coffee and savouries after. Missed by parents Douglas & Priscy.

Brother of Yovina.

Gegroet uit Warm Durban

Rita Quebbemann.

6a Re: MA Vednter oorlede


"Magda Schoeman"

Innige simpatie! Wat n wonderlike lang lewe!!!! Sterkte vir julle!

Magda Schoeman

On Wednesday, 16 December 2015, 'E Weideman' [email protected]


> Goeiedag lede,

>

> My moeder is gisteroggend (15.12.2015) oorlede op Graaf-Reinet in die

> ouderdom van 96 jaar.

>

> *Magdalena Anna Venter* #5, g. 23.10.1919 in Graaff-Reinet. (Lenie).

>

> Sy trou 03.04.1937, Jacob Gerhardus Weideman #4, g. 20.11.1914 in

> Aberdeen, Kaapprovinsie, (seun van Hendrikus Jacobus Weideman #10 en

> Maria Elizabeth Momberg #11) begrawe in Graaff-Reinet, s. 09.04.1989 in

> Port Elizabeth. Jacob: (b8c8d9e3f6) (Japie) Dosent onderwyserskollege,

> Graaff-Reinet.

>

> Vir die Venter navorsers (en ander vanne!), ‟n kort uittreksel uit my

> Brothers Keeper program (Ek het heelwat meer inligting wat nog nie in BK

> program bygevoeg is nie):

>

> Sewende Geslag

>

> 10. *Pieter Jacobus Venter* #1452, g. 11.01.1821, gedoop 10.03.1822 in

> Cradock. b5c4d1e1f2g3.

>

> Hy trou (1) 21.05.1843 in Cradock, Anna Barbara Opperman #1453,

> g. 11.04.1828 in Vlekpoort, dist. Cradock, (dogter van Christiaan Rudolph

> Opperman #3185 en Anna Barbara Venter #3186) gedoop 04.05.1828 in NGK

> Cradock, s. 20.03.1867 in Palmietfontein, distr. Cradock. Anna:

> (b1c1d1e1f5) geb. datum is s. datum van moeder.

>

> *Kinders:*

>

> 12. i *Petrus Johannes Venter* #1454 g.

> 19.04.1859.

>

> Hy trou (2) Adriana Bekker #3199, g. c. 1835, (dogter van Johan

> Frederik Bekker #3200 en Johanna van Ginkel #3201). Adriana: b3.

>

> Hy trou (3) Magdalena Catharina de Beer #3202, g. 08.08.1862,

> (dogter van Jan Matthys de Beer #3203 en Magdalena Catharina du Plessis

> #3204) gedoop 28.08.1862 in Tarka, dist. Cradock, s. 03.08.1899 in

> Zuurfontein, dist. Molteno.

>

> 11. *Anna Barbara Opperman* #1453, (Sien huwelik om te nommer 10.)

>

> Agtste Geslag

>

> 12. *Petrus Johannes Venter* #1454, g. 19.04.1859, gedoop 04.07.1859 in

> Vlekpoort, s. 04.04.1932, begrawe in Graaff-Reinet. b5c4d1e1f2g3h5.

> Hy trou 23.07.1883 in Cradock, Maria Christina Myburgh #245, g.

> c. 1858, (dogter van Jacobus Johannes Myburgh #248 en Maria Christina

> Pretorius #249) s. 11.11.1947, begrawe in Graaff-Reinet. Maria:

> (b2c2d1e1f4g4).

>

> *Kinders:*

>

> 13. i *Pieter J Venter* #730 g. 17.02.1885.

>

> 14. ii *Jacobus Johannes Venter* #230 g.

> 26.01.1888.

>

> Negende Geslag

>

> 13. *Pieter J Venter* #730, g. 17.02.1885, s. 20.10.1968, begrawe in

> Graaff-Reinet (Grootkerk, begr. pl.).

>

> Hy trou Hendrina M Botha #1467, g. 1892, s. 24.10.1962, begrawe

> in Graaff-Reinet (Grootkerk, begr. pl.). Hendrina: 70 jr. op grafsteen.

>

> *Kinders:*

>

> 15. i *Pieter Johnnie Venter* #731 g.

> 04.01.1908.

>

> 14. *Jacobus Johannes Venter* #230, g. 26.01.1888, gedoop in Cradock,

> s. 15.08.1968, begrawe in Graaff-Reinet. (Kotie) Winkelier.

>

> Hy trou Magdalena Anna Blom #231, g. 16.06.1895, (dogter van

> Jurgen Hendrik Blom #232 en Gertruida Johanna Hechter #233) s.

> 29.02.1972, begrawe in Graaff-Reinet.

>

> *Kinders:*

>

> 16. i *Petrus Johannes Venter* #726 g.

> 12.07.1911.

>

> ii *Gertruida Johanna Venter* #727, g.

> 12.03.1913, s. 24.10.1984, begrawe in Graaff-Reinet. Nooit getroud nie.

> (Gertie).

>

> 17. iii *Jurgen Hendrik Venter* #728 g.

> 02.01.1915.

>

> 18. iv *Maria Christina Myburgh Venter* #729

> g. 27.12.1916.

>

> 19. v *Magdalena Anna Venter* #5 g.

> 23.10.1919.

>

> Tiende Geslag

>

> 15. *Pieter Johnnie Venter* #731, g. 04.01.1908, s. 18.09.1978, begrawe

> in Graaff-Reinet.

>

> Hy trou Aletta van Staden #732, g. 14.06.1909, s. 06.10.1983,

> begrawe in Graaff-Reinet.

>

> *Kinders:*

>

> 20. i *Joey Venter* #733.

>

> ii *Pieter Venter* #734. Blykbaar

> nooit getroud nie.

>

> 21. iii *Martin Venter* #735.

>

> iv *Hendrina Venter* #736.

>

> Sy trou NN Botha #3046.

>

> v *Adolf Venter* #737.

>

> vi *Leon Venter* #738, g. 17.07.1936,

> s. 02.10.1951, begrawe in Graaff-Reinet (Grootkerk begr. pl.).

>

> 16. *Petrus Johannes Venter* #726, g. 12.07.1911, s. 30.06.1976,

> begrawe in Graaff-Reinet. (Peet) Winkelier.

>

> Hy trou (1) Lucy Nash #1401.

>

> *Kinders:*

>

> 22. i *Owen Venter* #1402 g. 12.01.1938.

>

> Hy trou (2) Lucy Strydom #1415.

>

> 17. *Jurgen Hendrik Venter* #728, g. 02.01.1915, s. 13.02.1998 in

> Graaff-Reinet, begrawe in Graaff-Reinet. (Jurgen) Sakeman.

>

> Hy trou Elsie Sophia Johanna van Rooyen #1005, g. 20.06.1920 op

> "Pypklip" dist. Kenhardt, (dogter van Gert Johannes van Rooyen #1416 en

> Elizabeth Maria Catharina Steyn #3491) s. 30.11.1989 in Graaff-Reinet,

> begrawe in Graaff-Reinet. Elsie: [b1c1d3e2] (Ella) Onderwyseres, sakevrou.

>

> *Kinders:*

>

> 23. i *Jacobus Johannes Venter* #1006 g.

> 30.04.1942.

>

> 24. ii *Elizabeth Venter* #1008 g. 09.11.1950.

>

> 25. iii *Gert Johannes Venter* #1007 g.

> 09.04.1956.

>

> 18. *Maria Christina Myburgh Venter* #729, g. 27.12.1916, s.

> 09.03.1976, begrawe in Graaff-Reinet. (Rietjie).

>

> Sy trou Stephanus J Mynhardt #1417.

>

> *Kinders:*

>

> i *Anton Mynhardt* #3517, g.

> 28.08.1939, s. 03.01.2007.

>

> Hy trou (1) NN Strydom #3519.

>

> Hy trou (2) Sussie NN #3520.

>

> ii *Magdalena Mynhardt* #3518, g.

> 24.10.19--.

>

> 19. *Magdalena Anna Venter* #5, g. 23.10.1919 in Graaff-Reinet.

> (Lenie).

>

> Sy trou 03.04.1937, Jacob Gerhardus Weideman #4, g. 20.11.1914

> in Aberdeen, Kaapprovinsie, (seun van Hendrikus Jacobus Weideman #10 en

> Maria Elizabeth Momberg #11) begrawe .04.1989 in Graaff-Reinet, s.

> 09.04.1989 in Port Elizabeth. Jacob: (b8c8d9e3f6) (Japie) Dosent

> onderwyserskollege, Graaff-Reinet.

>

> *Kinders:*

>

> 26. i *Etienne Weideman* #1 g. 16.01.1938.

>

> 27. ii *Laurette Weideman* #6 g. 16.02.1943.

>

> Somerset-Wes

Magda Schoeman

P.O. Box 12002

Garden Route Mall

6546

Tel: + 27 44 8890142

Cell: + 27 83 2257733

Fax: + 086 770 0942

7 [Press] The Mercury Friday 18 Dec 2015 CREDITORS ....



Dag vriende,

QUICKQUIP:- " Failure is only the opportunity to begin more intelligently."

- American industrialist Henry FORD (1863 ----1947)

CREDITORS/ DEBTORS:-

DAINTRY Melene ID 430826 0089 08 4 + 15 June2015 of no address given. ESTATE

No 007410/2015. DAVID MARTIN MULLER 16 Dan Pienaar Rd, Pietermaritzburg

3201.

DRIVER Patricia Aileen ID 331125 0047 08 9 + 25 Aug 2014 of Rob Roy, Bothas

Hill, Durban. ESTATE No 29835/2014/DBN. BRAND VAN NIEKERK & CO INC Private

Bag X30, Umhlanga Rocks 4320.

JAMIESON Kathleen Johanna Sophie ID 420910 0085 08 6 + 5 April 2015 of 21

Victoria Crescent, Malvern Queensburgh. ESTATE No 5591/2015/DBN .BRAND VAN

NIEKERK & CO INC Private Bag X30, Umhlanga Rocks 4320.

KARNEZOS Nicolas Theodore ID 320229 5020 08 4 + 5 Aug 2015 of 9 Fayvid Ave,

Scottville, Pietermaritzburg. ESTATE No 007983/2015. FNB FIDUSARY (PTY)LTD

PO Box 13527 Cascades 3202

LAWRENCE Beryl Doris Vale ID 330208 0024 08 1 + 17 June 2015 of Greendale

House, Hadca Retirement Village, 65 Symonds Lane , Howick 3290. ESTATE

No.5558/2015/PMB. McGLASHAN McKEOWN INC SUE NICOL Suite 5, 22 On Main, 22

Old Main Rd Hillcrest 3610. Email> [email protected] <.

MAVUNDLA Mbokodo Elias Paulos ID 510515 5417 08 4 + 10 Oct 2014 of PO Box

111, Loskop 3330. ESTATE No 15012/2015/DBN. MARLAN NAIDOO & PARTNERS 489

Arena Park Drive, Arena Park Chatsworth PO Box 561203 Chatsworth 4030.

MERRICK Christopher John ID 520123 5074 08 4 + 15 April 2014 of 28 Venice

Drive, Uvongo KZN. ESTATE No 26245/2014/DBN. ALEXANDERCOX PO Box 1123,

Kloof.

NJAPHA Derrick Msawakhe ID 830404 6108 08 8 + 16 June 2013 of Folweni

Township Durban x Andile Portia NJAPHA ID 870714 0664 08 9 .ESTATE No

12157/2013/DBN. TEES ATTORNEYS 45 Steel Rd , Durban .TEL:- 031 3127763.

OATWAY Constance Margaret ID 410727 0102 18 8 + 8 Oct 2015 x Ian Alfred

OATWAY ID 441009 5138 18 3 (British) of no address given.ESTATE No

15598/2015/DBN. FNB FIDUCIARY (PTY) LTD PO Box 27511, Greenacres 6057.

Chinique Domingo TEL:- + 27 87 335 08 25.

ROBBERTZE Hendrik Louis Scott ID 391216 5102 08 1 +17 June 2015 of 15

Neptune Rd, Westville x Patricia Rosemary ROBBERTZE ID 41112 0079 08 7.

ESTATE No 10037/2015/DBN. PATRICIA ROSEMARY ROBBERTZE 15 Neptune Rd

Westville 3629.

ROGERS Michael John ID 400608 5046 18 6 + 20 Sept 2015 in Durban,of 83

Salisbury Avenue, Westville x out of community of property MASTERS REF:-

008374/2015. VENNS ATTORNEYS PO Box 600, Pietermaritzburg. REF:- HB

Szudrawski/Tina/38155184.

STUART Michael Anthony Ramsay ID 410204 5043 08 0 + 10 July 2015 of Flat 3,

Highbiscus Height, Margate Retirement Village, Margate. ESTATE No

013548/2015. C A FRIEDLANDER ATTORNEYS 3rd Floor 42 Keeran Street, Cape Town

8000. TEL:- 021 4877900.

SWAN Joan Elizabeth ID 350313 0264 08 8 + 25 June 2015 x Leonard Matthew

SWAN ID 300119 5224 08 9 of Cottage 112, Margate Retirement Village,

Durban. ESTATE No 15595/2015/DBN. FNB FIDUCIARY (PTY) LTD PO Box 212

Westville. 4320 Noleen KWAME TEL:- +27 87 730 2577.

VAN ROOYEN Stella ID 480323 0146 08 9 + 4 Oct 2015 of 9 Everwood, Inanada

Rd, Waterfall. ESTATE No 7896/2015. FNB FIDUSARY (PTY)LTD PO Box 13527

Cascades 3202

XABA Veronica Thabile ID 571223 0270 08 9 + 17 July 2015 of No 5372 Section

4, Madadeni. ESTATE No 7870/2015. FNB FIDUSARY (PTY)LTD PO Box 13527

Cascades 3202

FIRST /FINAL:-

CAVITOLO Giuseppe ID 510720 5004 18 5 + 4 Aug 2009 of 23 Wandsbeck Rd,

Westville. ESTATE No 18422/2009. DE VILLIERS EVANS & PETIT PO Box 4808

Durban 4000.

CLIFTON Maureen ID 450712 0094 08 1 + none and no address. ESTATE No

1671/2015/PMB K H FINANCIAL SERVICES PO Box 5107, Durban. TEL:- 031 2059449.

GRACIE John Keir ID 331210 5045 08 8 + 5 June 2014 of Blue Waters Hotel, 175

Snell Parade, North Beach, Durban. ESTATE No 22668/2014/DBN. ELSIE MARGARET

ALEXANDER P/A BRAAM DEAKON ATTORNEYS 8 Vincent Street, Mossel Bay 6500.

TEL:- 044 691 1218.

KHENA Mandlenkosi Mfanafuthi ID 630927 5355 08 8 + 3 Nov 2014 of G5 702

Ufelaphakathi Rd, KwaMashu. ESTATE No 30317/2014/DBN. S.D. MOLOI &

ASSOCIATES INCORPORATED 39 Holmpark Place, Durban North 4051. FAX:-031 563

3231. Email > [email protected] </> [email protected] <

SANSON Marie Aimee Irene ID 240517 0039 08 4 + 12 Feb 2015 of 701 Eden

Crescent, Durban 4001. ESTATE No 003027/2015. MRM PARTNERSHIP, Suite 60,

Private Bag X4, Kloof 3640. TEL:- 031 764 6891.

SIBIYA Mkoti ID 410103 0167 08 6 +16 Feb 2015 of 6734 Waterloo Phase 5,

Prickle Pear, Verulam. ESTATE No 8239/2015/DBN. MARLAN NAIDOO & PARTNERS

489 Arena Park Drive, Arena Park Chatsworth PO Box 561203 Chatsworth 4030.

WILLS Clarice Lynette Althea ID 231028 0024 08 5 + 17 June 2012 of 8 Telford

Street , Marion, Western Australia. ESTATE No 2614/2014/PMB. BATCHELOR

BROOKERS 1A Loudon House, Loudon Park, 8 St Mary's Rd, Kloof. (JH

Bachelor/mm/WIL19/001).

Gegroet uit nogsteeds warm windstil oggend in Durban

Rita Quebbemann.





1 Venter navorsing by "Frik Venter." hexrivier1234

2 Britse by "helen muller"

3 Argief Fonds by "Aletta Magrieta Quebbemann" alettaqea9fac

4a Grafsteen by "Riaan van Zyl" vanzyl_riaan

5 BOTMA HULP ASB by "Rassie"

6a Re: DU PREEZ-NAVRAAG by "Johan Brink"


8a Re: VAB by "Helena Garner"

Messages

1 Venter navorsing



Geagte Lede,

Hierdie vier persone se doop besonderhede ontwyk my nou al 'n paar jaar, is daar dalk 'n lid wat kan help.

Die vader van die familie het vir die Regering gewerk en was die hele land rond verplaas

1. Pieter Wilhelmus Johan Venter

Gebore 17 Februarie 1933 Fauresmith

Doop ?????????

2. Maria Judith Hendrina Venter

Gebore 30 Maart 1935 Reitz OVS

Doop ?????????

3. Florina Johanna Venter

Gebore 22 Julie 1937 Philippolis

Doop ?????????

4. Petra Eugene Venter

Gebore 1 Junie 1941 Trompsburg

Doop ?????????

Ek dank u.

Seën groete

Frik.



Postma Familie

Buytendag Familie



2 Britse


"helen muller"

Ek is steeds opsoek na my (oorlede pa) se eerste 3 broers se sterfdatums.

Hierdie 3 is gebore en gedoop te Prince Albert, soos aangeteken in die

N. G. Kerk, Prince Albert se doopregister. Hierdie kinders blyk baie jonk

te gesterf het, waaraan en wanneer weet ek nie. En weet ek ook nie waar

hul begrawe sou wees nie.

Vader; Johannes Matthys Wilhelm Michiel Brits,

--------

Moeder; Martha Jacoba Brits (gebore Botes)

En gee nou die besonderhede van die 3 kinders;

1. Johannes Matthys Willhelm Brits

*Gebore; 06 Junie 1911

=Gedoop; 08 Oktober `1911

+Oorlede; ???????????????

2. Andries Stefanus Brits

*Gebore; 18 November 1912

=Gedoop; 09 Maart 1913

+Oorlede; ???????????????

3. Barend Lodewyk Brits

*Gebore; 12 Julie 1914

=Gedoop; 06 September 1914

+Oorlede; ???????????????

DIt is nog een van die redes van vele wat my verhoed om my Brits soeke

af te sluit!

Groot asseblief indien iemand kan help.

Groete,

Helena Muller (gebore Brits)

3 Argief Fonds



Dag vriende,

'n Mens loop soms deur die lewe sonder om werklik dinge raak te sien.

Het sowaar gesien dat Huwelike aangeteken is volgens Zulu tradisie in 1921.

Boek gesien waarin dit aangeteken is in die Argief Durban :- /UNION

01010/20 -----9399/1922 Marriages . Moes to 2/3 blasye afneem en die een

bladsy van skeisaak.

Heel interresant word die Labola ook ingeskryf en of die man dit betaal het

of nie. Het nie gedink dit moes daai tyd al aangeteken word nie en nog 'n

derde huwelik is ook ingedra. (3rd Wife).

Nou weet ek daarvan. Nie dat ek iets daaraan kan doen nie.

Skuus vir my onkunde.

Gegroet uit Winderige en nogsteeds warm Durban.

Rita Quebbemann.

4a Grafsteen


"Riaan van Zyl" vanzyl_riaan

Groete,

Ek het hulp nodig asb, met 'n grafsteen in Germiston se begrafplaas. Ek sien

daar is baie begrafplase in Germiston, maar ek weet nie in watter een my

moeder se broer se kind begrawe is nie.

Hy is BAREND NICOLAAS van der WESTHUIZEN, noem naam Bennie

Gebore : 1964

Oorlede ; 6/6/1966

Kanker van die byniere gehad.

As iemand my kan help.

Riaan van Zyl

Uit die Kaap

5 BOTMA HULP ASB


"Rassie"

Beste Lyslede,

Ek sal baie bly wees as iemand my met die volgende kan help.

Jan (Johannes) Botma was met Anna Maria Kruisman getroud. Hy was die

kleinseun van die stamvader Steven Jansz Botma.

Soos sy grootvader en vader Jan was hy ook Heemraad. Daarna vind ek hom

weer in die Resolusies van 23 Junie 1729 waar hy van moord op 'n slaaf

beskuldig word en daarvoor is hy blykbaar beboet.

Die volgende jaar, in Oktober 1730 vra hy toestemming om 'n slaaf vry te

stel.

Daarna vind ek van hom geen spoor tot op 19 April 1746 wanneer daar in die

Resolusies deur Ryk Tulbach beweer word dat Johannes Botma blykbaar van sy

kop af geraak het en dat hulle verplig sou wees om hom onder geleide na die

Kaap te neem.

Kan iemand my dalk help om uit te vind wat hierna presies met hom gebeur

het en hoe hierdie aangeleentheid afgeloop het.

Volgens Div en Pama het hy hierna nog twee kinders gehad so dit lyk nie of

hy in 'n gestig of watookal beland het nie.


Groete

Rassie.

6a Re: DU PREEZ-NAVRAAG


"Johan Brink"

Baie dankie, Andrew. Ek het die info so deurgegee; dis 'n skootjie vooruit.

Goedgaan!

Johan

Melkbosstrand

082 328 9453

From: Andrew Kok [email protected] [SAGenealogie]

To: sagenealogie


Subject: [SA-Gen] Re: DU PREEZ-NAVRAAG

Johan

Die kinders is

Petrus Jacobus, * 03/02/1913

Frederik Johannes, * 13/10/1914

Petronelle Rolina, * 26/02/1917

Elizabeth Gertruida, * 23/08/1919

petrus Christoffel, * 02/02/1921

Die grootouers was Pieter Jacobus du Preez en Elizabeth Gertruida Heyn. Geen sterfbesonderhede nie.

Dit kom uit Thys du Preez se boek wat by die Hugenote Vereniging beskikbaar is.

Groete

Andrew Kok

Dr Andrew Kok

Durbanville

082 500 6758



"Hester Marx"

Sterfgevalle

(Drie berigte)

BLIGNAUT, Ken. +Woensdag 16 Desember 2015. Familie en mede M.O.T.H.

Oupa ons gaan jou so baie mis, Gemma en Layla-Marie (Speckles en Smarties).

Begrafnisdiens Dinsdag 22 Desember 2015 10:00 St. Markâ€™s Congregational Kerk,

Kaapweg. (Die Burger 18/12/2015)

Sue Gillespie, First Avnue Funeral Home 041 581 5028

ELS, Gert. In lewe van Centurion. +Dinsdag 15 Desember 2015 in Port Elizabeth.

Susters Stoffie, Anna, Marlé, broer Hannes. Gedenkdiens Maandag 21 Des 2015

10:00 Algoa Kapel, Worrakerstraat, Newton Park. (Die Burger O-Kaap 18/12/2015)

Miemie Gardiner Algoa Begrafnisdienste 041 363 4874

HILDEBRAND, Ronald. 01/02/1951 â€“ 11/12/2015. Vrou, kinders, kleinkinders.

Roudiens Vrydag 18 Desember 2015 14:00 NG Kerk Sanddrift.

(Die Burger Oos-Kaap 18/12/2015) Jamani Begrafnisdienste, Kareedouw.

Hester Marx, Loerie

[email protected]

8a Re: VAB


"Helena Garner"

Hallo Richard,

Ek het alweer ˜n probleem. Ek volg jou reels en dan kry ek die volgende boodskap:

South Africa Free State

Dan verskyn die volgende:

No records

Soms kry ek dit wel reg. Ek dink dit het iets met my internet te doen. Het jy al hierdie reaksie gekry?

Baie dankie.

Helena.





Goeie more Helen






Die volgende skerm gaan na Southa Africa, Orange Free State - Probate records. Klik op Estate Files,

Orange Free State 1832 - 1989


sal jy sien daar is 'n kamara, klik op die kamara. Die skerm wat nou opgekom wys vir jou al die leêrs wat


pyltjie. As daar ñ boodskap op kom 'error loading image. Please try later again'• maak hom net toe. Aan

die linkerkant is daar ñ plus teken onder dit is daar ñ minus teken en ñ vierkantige blokkie. Klik op die


Hoop dit help

Richard Wolfaardt





Goeiemore Almal,

Is daar dalk iemand wat nog binnekort VAB toe gaan? Ek het so pas kennis gemaak met â€ñ nuwe


SOURCE

VOLUME NO

REFERENCE

DESCRIPTION

BEGIN DATE

END DATE

MHG

<http://www.national.archsrch.gov.za/sm300cv/smws/sm30ddf0?201512100811499838546A&DN=00000

001>

0


001>

E1153


001>



001>


Baie dankie.

Helena Garner

1919


001>

1919


001>





1 Daan Botes, Genesis en HEDWIG VENTER by "Eddie Otte" otte.eddie

2a Re: VAB by "Richard"

3a Coetzee hulp asb by "Fina"

3b Re: Coetzee hulp asb by "Annelie Els" engelkind2000

3c Re: Coetzee hulp asb by "Fina"

3d Re: Coetzee hulp asb by "Elmien Wood"

4a Onbekende foto by "C van Gass"

4b Re: Onbekende foto by

Messages

1 Daan Botes, Genesis en HEDWIG VENTER



Lysvriende,

Ek het belang by Hewig Venter van Tarkastad se graf.

Ek sal graag die artikel van Daan Botes wil lees waarna Hendrik Strydom hier

verwys.

Kan iemand my dalk in kontak bring met Daan Botes, alternatief vertel hoe en

waar ek die spesefieke artikel in Genesis te lees kan kry?

Asseblief.

Eddie Otte

081 042 0299



Sent: Friday, December 18, 2015 11:51 AM


Subject: [SA-Gen] Emailing: HEDWIG VENTER IMG_1716

Goeie dag

Na aanleiding van Daan Botes se artikel in Genesis stuur ek die foto van

Hedwig Venter en haar man GCD Venter se grafsteen in die Tarkastadse

begraafplaas.

Vriendelike groete

Hendrik strydom

Your message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments:

HEDWIG VENTER IMG_1716

2a Re: VAB


"Richard"

Middag Helena

Familysearch hou nie van Google Chrome nie. Gebruik Internet Explorer of Firefox.

Richard


Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2015 11:16 AM


Subject: RE: [SA-Gen] VAB

Hallo Richard,

Ek het alweer „n probleem. Ek volg jou reels en dan key ek die volgende boodskap:

South Africa Free State

Dan verskyn die volgende:

No records

Soms kry ek dit wel reg. Ek dink dit het iets met my internet te doen. Het jy al hierdie reaksie gekry?

Baie dankie.

Helena.





Goeie more Helen






Die volgende skerm gaan na Southa Africa, Orange Free State – Probate records. Klik op Estate Files,

Orange Free State 1832 – 1989


sal jy sien daar is „n kamara, klik op die kamara. Die skerm wat nou opgekom wys vir jou al die leêrs wat


pyltjie. As daar „n boodskap op kom “error loading image. Please try later again” maak hom net toe. Aan

die linkerkant is daar „n plus teken onder dit is daar „n minus teken en „n vierkantige blokkie. Klik op die


Hoop dit help

Richard Wolfaardt





Goeiemore Almal,



SOURCE

VOLUME NO

REFERENCE

DESCRIPTION

BEGIN DATE

END DATE

MHG


001>

0


001>

E1153


001>



001>


Baie dankie.

Helena Garner

1919


001>

1919


001>

3a Coetzee hulp asb


"Fina"

Goeie Middag!

Ek is opsoek na die volgende:

DEPOT SAB

SOURCE URU

TYPE LEER

VOLUME_NO 306

SYSTEM 01

REFERENCE 211

PART 1

DESCRIPTION ISSUE OF A TITLE DEED TO LOT NO 12685, NAMED

AGRICULTURAL LOT NO

112, SITUATED AT DOUGLAS, DIVISION OF HERBERT, IN FAVOUR OF PIETER MELT

COETZEE.

STARTING 1917

ENDING 1917

Ek sal dit regtig waardeer indien julle my kan help om by die regte 'search'

in familysearch.org kan uitkom. Asseblief?

Groete

Fina van der Watt

(H) 0343183173

(S) 0836430826

3b Re: Coetzee hulp asb



Hallo Fina,

Hierdie data is nie beskikbaar op die FamilySearch webblad nie.

Groetnis.

Annelie.

Pretoria.




Subject: [SA-Gen] Coetzee hulp asb

Goeie Middag!


DEPOT SAB

SOURCE URU

TYPE LEER

VOLUME_NO 306

SYSTEM 01

REFERENCE 211

PART 1


AGRICULTURAL LOT NO

112, SITUATED AT DOUGLAS, DIVISION OF HERBERT, IN FAVOUR OF

PIETER

MELT COETZEE.

STARTING 1917

ENDING 1917



Groete

Fina van der Watt

(H) 0343183173

(S) 0836430826

3c Re: Coetzee hulp asb


"Fina"

Baie Dankie Annelie

En hierdie inligting asseblief:

DEPOT TAB

SOURCE MHG

TYPE LEER

SYSTEM 01

REFERENCE 11576/73

PART 1

DESCRIPTION COETZEE, PETER MELLY.

STARTING 19730000

ENDING 19730000

REMARKS SURVIVING SPOUSE JOHANNA SUSARA COETZEE

Kan jy dalk vir my se waarvoor staan:

DEPOT SAB

SOURCE URU

Baie dankie!


Sent: Sunday, 20 December, 2015 6:14 PM


Subject: RE: [SA-Gen] Coetzee hulp asb

Hallo Fina,


Groetnis.

Annelie.

Pretoria.





Goeie Middag!


DEPOT SAB

SOURCE URU

TYPE LEER

VOLUME_NO 306

SYSTEM 01

REFERENCE 211

PART 1


AGRICULTURAL LOT NO


COETZEE.

STARTING 1917

ENDING 1917



Groete

Fina van der Watt

(H) 0343183173

(S) 0836430826

3d Re: Coetzee hulp asb


"Elmien Wood"

URU Dit is ŉ raaiskoot, maar kan dalk wees Uitvoerende Raad Unie of

Executive Council documents.

SAB Sentrale Afgiefbewaarplek National Archives Repository (Public Records

of Central Government since 1910)

Groete

Elmien





Baie Dankie Annelie

En hierdie inligting asseblief:

DEPOT TAB

SOURCE MHG

TYPE LEER

SYSTEM 01

REFERENCE 11576/73

PART 1

DESCRIPTION COETZEE, PETER MELLY.

STARTING 19730000

ENDING 19730000

REMARKS SURVIVING SPOUSE JOHANNA SUSARA COETZEE

Kan jy dalk vir my se waarvoor staan:

DEPOT SAB

SOURCE URU

Baie dankie!

From: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>

[mailto:[email protected]]

Sent: Sunday, 20 December, 2015 6:14 PM

To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>


Hallo Fina,


Groetnis.

Annelie.

Pretoria.

From: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>

[mailto:[email protected]]


To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>


Goeie Middag!


DEPOT SAB

SOURCE URU

TYPE LEER

VOLUME_NO 306

SYSTEM 01

REFERENCE 211

PART 1


AGRICULTURAL LOT NO


COETZEE.

STARTING 1917

ENDING 1917

Ek sal dit regtig waardeer indien julle my kan help om by die regte

„search‟ in familysearch.org kan uitkom. Asseblief?

Groete

Fina van der Watt

(H) 0343183173

(S) 0836430826

4a Onbekende foto


"C van Gass"

Ek het `n verblykte foto van `n dogtertjie wat ongeveer 2 jaar oud is. Agter op is die volgende: “To dear

Aunt Hetty and Oom Hendrik from your little godchild”.

Ek glo dat “Oom Hendrik” my Pa is. “Aunt Hetty” is na alle waarskynlikheid sy eerste eggenote Hester

Craig Kriel. Om die foto nader te dateer kan ek meld dat hulle op 7 Januarie 1908 getroud is en dat sy op

12 Mei 1916 oorlede is. Die foto is dus waarskynlik iewers tussen hierdie twee datums geneem.

Kan iemand my dalk help om die kind te identifiseer?

“Aunt Hetty”se ouers was Jan Gysbert Kriel en Margaretha Johanna Elizabeth Hofmeyer. Haar broer was

Jacobus Petrus Kriel wat op sy beurt met my Pa se suster Justifina Andriessina van Gass getroud was.

Is daar dalk iemand wat die Cook familie navors? Hulle het na die ABO na Argintinie emigreer. Ek het `n

foto van tant Hannie (wat ek ontmoet het toe sy SA besoek het en ook een met die inskripsie A W T Cook –

waarskynlik haar man. Die Cooks is verwant van my Ma se kant. AWT se foto is gedateer 28/4/38.

C (Bok) van Gass.

4b Re: Onbekende foto


Hallo Bok,

My een vriend is A.W.T. (Antoon)Cook wie se pa vanaf Argentinie na die RSA teruggekeer het. Ek het jou

navraag na Antoon se broer, J.L.M.(Louis) Cook deurgestuur vir moontlike opklaring.

Weskus-groete!

Johan

Melkbosstrand

0823289453

From: 'C van Gass' [email protected] [SAGenealogie]

Sent: 21 December 2015 10:09


Subject: [SA-Gen] Onbekende foto

Ek het `n verblykte fot van `n dogtertjie wat ongeveer 2 jaar oud is. Agter op is die volgende: “To dear

Aunt Hetty and Oom Hendrik from your little godchild”.

Ek glo dat “Oom Hendrik” my Pa is. “Aunt Hetty” is na alle waarskynlikheid sy eerste eggenote Hester

Craig Kriel. Om die foto nader te dateer kan ek meld dat hulle op 7 Januarie 1908 getrod is en dat sy op 12

Mei 1916 oorlede is. Die foto is dus waarskynlik iewers tussen hierdie twee datums geneem.

Kan iemand my dalk help om die kind te identifiseer?

“Aunt Hetty”se ouers was Jan Gysbert Kriel en Margaretha Johanna Elizabeth Hofmeyer. Haar broer was

Jacobus Petrus Kriel wat op sy beurt met my Pa se suster Justifina Andriessina van Gass getroud was.

Is daar dalk iemand wat die Cook familie navors? Hulle het na die ABO na Argintinie emigreer. Ek het `n

foto van tant Hannie (wat ek ontmoet het toe sy SA besoek het en ook een met die inskripsie A W T Cook –

waarskynlik haar man. Die Cooks is verwant van my Ma se kant. AWT se foto is gedateer 28/4/38.

C (Bok) van Gass.






2 Gous x Van Wyk by "Hendrik at Loogkolk" loogkolk09

3 [Press] Daily News Thursday 17 Dec 2015 by "Aletta Magrieta Quebbemann" alettaqea9fac


5 [Press] The Mercury /Daily News Mon 21 Dec 2015. by "Aletta Magrieta Quebbemann" alettaqea9fac

6 KOMMERSIELE NAVORSING TAB: FOTO'S BENODIG ASSEBLIEF by "Daniel Jacobs"

danielmalanjacobs

Messages



"Hester Marx"

Sterfgevalle

THERON, Jean-Jacques Alroy. 23 jaar. Verassingsdiens Woensdag 23 Des 2015

10:00 Stadsaal, Despatch. Verassing privaat. (Die Burger Oos-Kaap 21/12/2015)

Van Willing Begrafnisdienste 041 988 1919

Hester Marx, Loerie

[email protected]

2 Gous x Van Wyk



Ek help iemand met haar voorgeslagte. Ons haak vas by die onderstaande persone soos op die 1984

Kieserslys. Enige inligting oor hul broers / susters en ouers sal meer as welkom wees.

Met opregte dank

Hendrik LOUW

1984 KIESERSLYS

DSC00170.JPG

GOUS (VAN WYK), HESTER JACOBA MAGDALENA 19-01-1905 050119 0013 00 0 HUISVROU

(039) GORDONIA, KIMBERLEY PERSEEL 158, GARIEPWATER 17-10-1979

Id: 050119 0030 08 3

? 08.01.1988 moontlik Postmastburg

? Gordonia

x 29.01.1924

DSC00163.JPG

GOUS, CHRISTOFFEL JOHANNES 23-05-1901 010523 5007 00 9


3 [Press] Daily News Thursday 17 Dec 2015



Dag vriende,

QUICKQUIP:- " Luck is not random; it is attracted to those who work hard.

Sweat, blood ,and tears are the ingredients of a champion. " - UNKNOWN.

DEATHS:- COLEMAN nee MOONEY Jean 23 June 1928 ----14 Dec 2015 . Wife, mother

and grandmother. ; Memorial at Kloof Methodist Church in Park Lane on 18 Dec

2015 at 2pm.

CROZIER Jenny + 14 Dec 2015 x Chris. Mother of Giulia and Jessica.

Sister-in-law of Ann, aunt of Trish and Jo. RIP Jen from Ann, Trish, Jo and

families.

DOVE Catherine (Tina) 30 Nov 1934 ---- 12 Dec 2015. Mother of Jonathan, Ruth

,grand and great-grandchildren. Funeral at Shalom Ministries Newlands East

on 19 Dec 2015 at 09:30am.Proceeding to Newlands East Cemetery for burial.

MOODLEY Siva (Seelan) . Son of Rooka, mother-in-law , wife Sentha. Father of

Kimara. Brother of Cookie and Pravini, Babs (brother ), Brother-in-law of

Preggie and Kevin. Uncle of Nirantar, Samaya and Karuna, Sathian, Santhiren

and Desan. Memorial on 20 Dec 2015 at Parasathie Temple Hall, Merebank from

12pm.

NOEL Nicholas. Fiance of Boudine. Father of Cayden. Son of Brent & Shirley.

Brother of Glynn, Gabrielle and Malachi. Funeral on 19 Dec 2015 at Open Door

Assembly Greenwood Park at 11am. Cremation private. CENTRAL Funerals 083 775

8020.

RAMSAMY Saras (Sera) 8 Nov 1978 ---13 Dec 2015. Wife and Mother of Keith,

Jodache, Jordan , Kian . Memorial on 18 Dec 2015 at Musgrave Methodist

Church at 11am. AVBOB 031 206 1831.

ROWE Violet Margaret. Mother of Sharon, Priscilla, Lynette, Desiree and

Bridgette. Sister of Patrick, Anthony. Grand and great-grandmother. Funeral

at Christ The King Parish Wentworth on 18 Dec 2015. Viewing at 11:30am.

Service at 12noon. Cremation private. ISIPINGO INC PAM'S.

WHYTE Alistair James + 12 Dec 2015 x Rosemary. Uncle to Pam and Pat.

Remembered by Janette, Angus and Jamie.

Gegroet uit Durban

Rita Quebbemann.




Dag vriende,

QUICKQUIP:- " The secret of life is not to do what you like , but to like

what you do." - UNKNOWN.

BIRTHS :-ASKEY /FERNANDES Andrew & Julia a boy Kai Daniel.

HAMBLIN Paul & Tamara a girl Elayna Michelle.

HARDING nee MILBANK Andrew & Michelle a girl Julie.

KELMANSON nee HEDGES Giles & Louise a boy Harles Joseph.

MCGARRY nee CUNNINGHAM Steve & Candice a girl Lilly Elizabeth.

MURRAY Glen & Lise a daughter Poppy Anne * 15 Dec 2015.

DEATHS:- BARKLEY Arthur 8 Sept 1928 -----17 Dec 2015. At last you are with

your Rooch. Love from Allan, Doreen, Bianca, Roger, Sophie, Jethro , Jordan,

Brett, Cindy, Bjorn, Megan, Courtney, Michael, Karla and Ricardo. ; Memorial

on 21 Dec 2015 at The Pinetown Baptist Church Pinetown.

BONHOMME Jennifer Gertrude. Funeral at St Gabriels Church Wentworth on 23

Dec 2015 at 11am. Cremation private. DOVES 0860025500.

BRODZINSKI Albert (ALBIN) . Funeral at Full Gospel Tabernacle corner Currie

and Poval Rd at 11am.

CLOTHIER Dr Ernest Brian (Sonny) + 13 Dec 2015 aged 63 years. Formely from

Durban lately from Dunedin New Zealand.Husband of Denise. Father of Clinton

and Gillian and Sue-Ann. Grandfather of Terri-Anne and Dwaine. Brother of

Isaac, Enid , + Didi, Esme, Kenny and brother-in-law. Member of JOHNSON

family. Private farewell was held. Messages to CLOTHIER Family c/-DX Box

YX15033 Dunedin. HOPE & SONS LTD FDANZ.

NAICKER Ponnamma (Amba) x + Dennis. Mother of + Judy, + Rajen, Anthony and

Lova. Grandmother and great-grandmother.. Funeral on 19 Dec 2015. Body will

lie in state at resident 30 Burnton Place Reservoir Hills at 10:45---1pm

proceeding to Clare Estate Crematorium Hall from 1---3pm Cremation at 3pm.

WYEBANK 031 7057-321.

SMITH Pamela Eileen. Funeral on 22 Dec 2015 at St Barnabas Anglican Church

Bluff at 10am.

VAN SCHALKWYK Maria Magdalena 12 Sept 1920 ----14 Dec 2015 . Betreur deur

Kinders, klein en agterkleinkinders.Roudiens op 19 Dec 2015 by Tuinsig

Aftree Oord Kapel Morningside. Diens word waargeneem deur Ds DREYER.

Verassing privaat. AVBOB 031 2061831.

VAN ZANTEN Shayleen + 16 Dec 2015 at age 15 years. She was stabbed to death

because she refuse to hand over her cell phone.It happened at Trafalgar

beach holiday Town at the South Coast. They come from Pretoria. Daughter of

Arie VAN ZANTEN. Niece of Thea COETSER. Tanya WATERWORTH & Tankiso MAKHETHA.

MEMORIAM:- ELGAR Michael John 3 Oct 1977 ----19 Dec 2004. Love from Mom and

your boy Shaye John.

GOVENDER Varadarajalu + 19 Dec 1989. Missed by your children.

HINDMAN JAMES (Jimmy) MILBURN 20 years today x Nancy. Father of Lyn (BRINK),

Nigel, Jenny (EAST), Gary , Tempest grand and great-grandchildren.

MAHABIR Sukdew 23 Aug 1937 ---9 Dec 2015.

NULLIAH Daniel 1958 ---2014. Husband ,father and grandfather.

PAUL E. V. 1902 ----1978 (Bond Drift SAP 1922) Father and grandfather. From

Mr & Mrs D V PAUL.

PILLAY Cookie 20 Dec 1955 ---29 Jan 2014. Appy 60th Brithday. Remembered

from husband Vassie, and children Loseshnee, Preshalin. Mother-in-law of

Juventus. Grandmother of Jovanna.

ROSS Rosemary 12 Aug 1946 ----20 Dec 2012. Wife , mother and grandmother.

Malcolm, Kerry, Craig, Tiffany, Samantha, Jenny, Roland, Gary, James, Ethan

and Aiden.

Gegroet uit bietjie reenerige en warm Durban

Rita Quebbemann.

5 [Press] The Mercury /Daily News Mon 21 Dec 2015.



Dag vriende,

QUICKQUIP:- " That's what college is for - getting as many bad decisions as

possible out of the way before you're forced into the real world. I keep a

checklist of 'em on the wall in my room." - Jeph JACQUES.

BIRTHS:- PIENAAR Michael & Lorella a girl Michela Gina * 15 Dec 2015.

Grandchild for Nonna and Nonno ACCOLLA.

DEATHS:- BEIRUT: KANTAR Samir was killed on 19 Dec 2015 in Jaramana. He

gained notoriety for killing of a man Danny HARAn and his 4year old

daughter. KANTAR was 16 that time. He was killed in an airstrike near

Damascus. DAILY NEWS ANA-AP.

KGASOANE Banza + 9 Dec 2015. Founder member of Alexander Brass Band and

former Mango Groove trumpeter. He was buried on Saturday. ANA

MAINSTRY Kumarasamy (Jackie) 20 March 1934 ----20 Dec 2015 x Amra MAINSTRY

. Father of Palanie and Nandini. Grandfather of Kairar. Brother of Amba and

Saras and + Seela, Nine and Marshall. Funeral today at Andhra Vishna Temple

Reservoir Hills. Body will lie in state from 12---3:30pm. Proceeding to

Clare Estate crematorium at 4pm.

POONAN Veresamy (Ponsie) x + Ayalla POONAN . Father of Gons POONAN, Anshu

PADAYACHEE and + Selvan POONAN. Father-in-law of Posypoonan and Preggie

PADAYACHEE. Funeral at Clare Estate Crematorium today 21 Dec 2015 at

3-4:30pm. Dinner at Dravida Hall

RAMALU Mr Appal. 13th Day Memorial at Tongaat Town Hall on 23 Dec 2015 from

19h00 . Supper from 17:30----18:30pm.

Gegroet uit 19 grade C in Durban om 01:55am.

Rita Quebbemann.

6 KOMMERSIELE NAVORSING TAB: FOTO'S BENODIG ASSEBLIEF


"Daniel Jacobs" danielmalanjacobs

Beste Vriende

Ek betaal graag vir iemand wat vir my foto's kan neem van die belangrikste

dokumente in die volgende leêr:

*Document 11 of 32DEPOT SAB SOURCE BEP TYPE LEER VOLUME_NO 163 SYSTEM 01

REFERENCE G7/139/30 PART 1 DESCRIPTION AANSOEK OM 'N GROEPSGEBIED IN

DISTRIK JOHANNESBURG ALBERTVILLE - ALBERTSKROON. STARTING 19540000 ENDING

19610000 *

Ek benodig die inligting redelik dringend.

Die belangrikste dokument in die leêr behoort 'n verslag te wees waarin

gemotioveer word waarom die gebied 'n Groepsgebied moes word. Die verslag

gee gewoonlik ook 'n profiel van die mense wat voor die onteiening in

so 'n gebied gewoon het het. Ek sal ook graag wil weet waarheen die mense

wat daar gewoon het, verskuif is.

As iemand kan help, kontak my asseblief van die lys af.

Baie dankie

Groete

Daniel

Vir gratis Genealogiese Handleiding gaan na bit.ly/genkursus

Siebrits/du Toit/Meyer/Zeeman/De Villiers (Franschhoek/Paarl)

Jacobs/Oberholster/Smith (Graaff-Reinet/Fauresmith)

Le Roux/Van der Merwe (Villiersdorp)

Louw/Brink (Kaapstad/Wellington)

De Vos (De Doorns/Wellington)

Malan (Wellington/Zeerust)

Ungerer (Swellendam)

Smith (Wellington)





1 GOUS x VAN WYK by "Hendrik at Loogkolk" loogkolk09


3 TAB Opsoek HANEKOM x VAN WYK by "Johann Hanekom" johann.hanekom

4 [Press] The Mercury /Daily News Tuesday 22 Dec 2015 by "Aletta Magrieta Quebbemann" alettaqea9fac

Messages

1 GOUS x VAN WYK



Ten opsigte van my vorige e-pos, hier is nog inligting. Ek soek nog steeds na die ouers van die Vader &

Moeder.

Groete en met dank

Hendrik LOUW

011 976 4262

082 722 6500

1984 KIESERSLYS

DSC00170.JPG

GOUS (VAN WYK), HESTER JACOBA MAGDALENA 19-01-1905 050119 0013 00 0 HUISVROU


Id: 050119 0030 08 3

* 19.01.1905

? 08.01.1988 moontlik Postmastburg

? Gordonia

x 29.01.1924

DSC00163.JPG

GOUS, CHRISTOFFEL JOHANNES 23-05-1901 010523 5007 00 9


* 23.05.1901

? 30.01.1983

DSC00173.JPG

GOUS, JACOBUS MARTHINUS 30-12-1924 241230 5007 00 2 SLYPER

(158) MEYERTON VEREENIGING HOEWE 46, GLENDONALD 13-08-1979

DSC00171.JPG

GOUS (BOTES) ISABELLA HENDRIKA 27-07-1927 270727 0020 00 9 HUISVROU

(158) MEYERTON VEREENIGING HOEWE 46, GLENDONALD 13-08-1979

DSC00157.JPG

GOUS ANDRIES JOHANNES 30-03-1953 530330 5017 00 9 NDT ASSISTANT

158) MEYERTON VEREENIGING PLOT 140, BOLTONWORLD, VEREENIGING 01-10-1980

DSC00164.JPG

GOUS (LIEBENBERG) ELIZABETH ANNA STEVANZIONA 27-06-1956 560627 0004 00 4

HUISVROU

(205) KLERKSDORP ROODEPOORT, 54 HENDRIK POTGIETER, OUDORP, KLERKSDORP 01-08-

1979

============================================================================

=

h11. Christoffel Johannes GOUS (g7/x) * "Zwartkoppies" 23.01.1901 ? 1902.12.02, Griekwastad ?

30.01.1983 ? Gordonia {I.D 0105235007082} x 29.01.1924 Hester Jacoba Magdalena VAN WYK *

19.01.1905 ? Postmasburg 08.01.1988 ? Gordonia Nota: COD: Pneumonia {I.D 0501190013083}

Children (8): X {Jacobus Marthinus Gous, Willem Johannes Gous, Hester Jacoba Magdalena du Toit,

Christoffel Johannes Gous, Gesina Christina Botes, Magdalena ? Gous, Janetta Gesina Elizabeth du Toit,

Martha Catherina van Bosch}

i1. Jacobus Marthinus GOUS (h11/x) * Upington 30.12.1924 ? Vereeniging 01.04.1998 ? Meyerton Nota:

COD: Lewerversaking {Id: 241230 5007 08 5} x Christiana 11.05.1946 Isabella Hendrika BOTES *

Christiana 27.07.1927 ? Griekwastad 11.06.1989 ? Meyerton Nota: COD: Natural Causes {Id: 270727

0020 08 2}

Children (7): X {Isabella Hendrika Rothner, Christoffel Johannes Gous, Andries Johannes Gous, Hester

Magdalena Davis, Magdalena Els, Marthea Lombard, Jacobus Marthinus Gous}

j3. Andries Johannes (Johan) GOUS (i1/x) * Postmastburg 30.03.1953 ? Christiana x NGK Stilfontein

11.01.1975 Elizabeth Anna Stevanziena (Lana) LIEBENBERG * Klerksdorp 27.06.1956

Children (3): X {Jacobus Marthinus Gous, Philippus Jacobus Gous, Samantha-Marie Lana Gous}

i2. Willem Johannes (Boykie) GOUS (h11/x) * 28.05.1930 ? Kimberley 24.04.1991 ? Griekwastad {Id:

300528 5085 08 6} x 16.07.1955 Magdalena Wilhelmina (Babs) VAN EEDEN * 01.05.1938

i3. Hester Jacoba Magdalena GOUS (h11/x) * 26.06.1932 x 01.07.1950 Andries Gerhardus DU TOIT *

01.05.1938 ? Viljoenskroon 07.04.1999 ? Upington

i4. Christoffel Johannes (Stoffel) GOUS (h11/x) *12.08.1942 ? Van Zylsrus 17.05.1994 {Id: 420812 5033

08 9} x 14.03.1964 Hester Sophia Helena (Hettie) RUGTER * 28.08.1946

i5. Gesina Christina (Geesie) GOUS (h11/x) x 06.09.1952 Josef Johanes Jacobus (Job) BOTES

i6. Magdalena (Magdalena Adriana or Johanna???) GOUS (h11/X)

i7. Janetta Gesina Elizabeth (Net) GOUS (h11/x) x 03.09.1949 Neville Stephen DU TOIT

i8. Martha Catherina (Martha) GOUS (h11/x) x 24.09.1960 Jan Jakob Jakobus VAN BOSCH



"Hester Marx"

Sterfgevalle

DU PREEZ, Deon. +Sondag 20 Des 2015. Pa Abel, vrou Val, seuns Ryno en Hugo.

Roudiens Donderdag 24 Des 2015 11:00 NG Kerk Kraggakamma. Geen blomme.

Donasies aan Hospice. (Die Burger Oos-Kaap 22/12/2015)

Tereza Lendia AVBOB Newtonpark 041 363 0041

LODEWYCKX, Dialeen. 96 jaar. +Vrydag 18 Des 2015. Ons neem afskeid van „n ma,

ouma en oumagrootjie. Robert, Laurena, Eduard, Magriet, Dalné, Robert JAMES en

Danielle HONIBALL. Roudiens Dinsdag 29 Desember 2015 11:00 in die sitkamer van

Santos Haven 2. (Die Burger Oos-Kaap 22/12/2015)

SEAMAN, Drien. +Saterdag 19 Des 2015. Kinders, kleinkinders, agterkleinkinders.

Begrafnisdiens Woensdag 23 Des 2015 11:00 NG Kerk Sydenham, Uitenhageweg.

Forest Hill-begraafplaas. (Die Burger Oos-Kaap 22/12/2015)

Anneke Geel AVBOB Newtonpark 041 363 0041

Hester Marx, Loerie

[email protected]

3 TAB Opsoek HANEKOM x VAN WYK


"Johann Hanekom" johann.hanekom

Hallo Lyslede

Is daar dalk iemand wat een of ander tyd die TAB gaan besoek, en sal kan

sien om vir my die volgende SKs te transkribeer?

DEPOT TAB

SOURCE MHG

TYPE LEER

VOLUME_NO 0

SYSTEM 01

REFERENCE 2186/51

PART 1

DESCRIPTION HANEKOM, DIRK JOHANNES.

STARTING 19380000

ENDING 19380000

REMARKS SURVIVING SPOUSE MARTHA MARIA HANEKOM (BORN VAN WYK

En

DEPOT TAB

SOURCE MHG

TYPE LEER

VOLUME_NO 0

SYSTEM 01

REFERENCE 2474/52

PART 1

DESCRIPTION HANEKOM, MARTHA MARIA.

STARTING 19520000

ENDING 19520000

REMARKS PREDECEASED SPOUSE DIRK JOHANNES HANEKOM

Baie dankie, en geseënde Kersfees aan almal!

Johann Hanekom

Lancaster UK

<http://www.hanekom.org.uk/gedview/individual.php?pid=I1967&ged=hanekom.ged>

4 [Press] The Mercury /Daily News Tuesday 22 Dec 2015



Dag vriende,

QUICKQUIP:-" Instead of cursing the darkness, light a candle." -US founding

father and statesman Benjamin FRANKLIN.(1706 ----1790).

DEATHS:- AARONS Joey Johannes. Funeral on 23 Dec 2015 at Christ The King

Parish Wentworth . Viewing at 11:30am Service 12noon Cremation Private .

ISIPINGO INC PAM'S .

BAILEY John Neil Memorial at DOVES East Chapel Greyville on 23 Dec 2015 at

11am.

CROUCH Raymond George 6 May 1935 ----17 Dec 2015 x Joan. Father of Sandy,

Glen, Lesley. Funeral at Upper Umgeni Presbyterian Church Howick on 23 Dec

2015 at 11am. OAKLEIGH 033 3426116. ; Brother of Hazel. Uncle of Wilma, Dee

and Mike, Lyle and Bruce, Ethan and Seth.

HASKELL (HOWARD ) Lois Rose 17 Sept 1920 ---19 Dec 2015. Mother of Trevor,

Ann and Brenda. Memorial at The Methodist Church Hillcrest on 22 Dec 2015 at

14:30pm Cremation private. SHANLEY'S 031 2057644.

HAZELHURST Dave " Hazy" Born in 1938 ---+ 21 Dec 2015 at his home in

Killarney Johannesburg. He had cancer and was 77 years. He was creative

director of The Mercury's sister newspaper The Star. MERCURY CORRESPONDENT

JONES Noreen Elizabeth 16 July 1923 -----18 Dec 2015 x + Frank JONES for 55

years. Mother to Craig, Shayne and Cheryl. Grand and great-grandmother.

Memorial at Frere Rd Glenwood Presbyterian Church on 23 Dec 2015 at 11am.

OAKLEIGH .

LALLA Durgalal Bandulal 5 Sept 1922 ----21 Dec 2015 x + Soobagwathy. Father

of Krish, Robin and Jay LALLA, and Shireen. Grandfather of Vishal, Nishal,

Ashley, Reshnee, Rishen, Dhiren, Kaveel, Seshna and Salisha. Funeral on 22

Dec 2015 . Body will lie in state at Clare Estate Crematorium from 3pm

---4:30pm for cremation thereafter. NEWLANDS CITY Funerals 031 3071600.

LOWELL Coral 22 Nov 1934 ---18 Dec 2015 x Michael for 48 years. Mother of

Hilton, Liza and Amanda. Mother-in-law and grandmother of 11. Requiem Mass

at Catholic Church Of Our Lady Of Lourdes Westville on 23 Dec 2015 at 10am.

OAKLEIGH 033 3426116.

METZGER Edgar. Will be missed by his fellow golfers. The Directors, Members

and Staff of the Mount Edgecombe Country Club.

PILLAY Gopal + 20 Dec 2015 x Daya. Father of Patsy and + Pearls.

Father-in-law of Natty and + Daya. Grandfather of Yuren, Dr Pubern, Puvern,

Trishern and Leshern. Ex Player of Bluff Rangers FC and Warwickshires

Cricket Club. Funeral on 22 Dec 2015 from 11am ---2pm at Arena Park Regional

Hall Chatsworth proceeding to Clare Estate Crematorium at 3pm.

ROBINSON (SCHEI) Gillian (Gilly-Bee) 19 July 1977 ---18 Dec 2015 in Ballito

x Trevor. Mother of Kayden. Daughter of Ivar & Linda. Sister and aunt to

Cam. Love you so much from Craig, Ursula and Cameron.

STRACHAN Ronelle Kim. Funeral on 23 Dec 2015 at Christ Church Point Rd

Durban Viewing at 09h00 Service at 09:30am Cremation private. ISIPINGO INC

PAM'S 031 9022444.

SUBRAMONEY NAIDOO Chinatchama. Mother of Michael, Anson, Dasigi, Sheila,

Southree, Kantha, Cynthie and + Sonny. Mother-in-law and grandmother.

Funeral on 22 Dec 2015 .Body will lie in state from 12----2pm at Clare

Estate Crematorium Hall No 2.

TONETTI Frederick of Mayville .Funeral on 23 Dec 2015 at St Anne's Catholic

Church Sydenham. Viewing at 10:30am. Service at 11am. Cremation Private.

ISIPINGO INC PAM'S.

VAN HEERDEN Janathan (Jayz) x Rose. Father of Cassidy. Son of Philicity.

Brother to Craig and William. Funeral at The Open Door Assemblies Townview

Stanger on 23 Dec 2015 at 09h00am. Cremation private .SHANLEY'S 031 2057644.

VINNICOMBE Phyll 1926 ---19 Dec 2015. Mother of Alan, David and Peter.

Grandfather of Amy and Bradley. Loved by Tasha and the girls. SHANLEY'S 031

2057644.

MEMORIAM:- ELLIS Sam 22 Dec 2015. We celebrate your life and remember you

and Granny Mary. From Robin, Pat, Bronwyn, Justin, Jonathan and Vicky.

Gegroet uit Durban waar dit redelik warm en reenerig was vroeer vannaand.

Rita Quebbemann.





1 Johannesburg se Nuusbrief en Noordwes se Famnea by "Ferdie van Wyk"


3 [Press ] The Mercury/Daily News Wednesday 23 Dec 2015. by "Aletta Magrieta Quebbemann"

alettaqea9fac

4 Regstelling: Cloete-Lategan by "Nicky Lategan" nickylate

Messages

1 Johannesburg se Nuusbrief en Noordwes se Famnea


"Ferdie van Wyk"

Goeiemiddag almal,

So kort voor Kersfees is daar nog iets nuuts op die genza webwerf.

Lees by hierdie twee skakels Johannesburg se Nuusbrief en Noordwes se

Famnea.

http://www.genza.org.za/index.php/en/newsletters-81558

http://www.genza.org.za/index.php/en/nw-quarterly

Van my af ŉ geseënde Feesgety en ŉ voorspoedige nuwe jaar met opwindende

deurbrake.

Ferdie van Wyk


Centurion



"Hester Marx"

Sterfgevalle

KOCH, Peter (Pastor em.) Oorlede na lang siekbed. Vrou, kinders, kleinkinders.

Diens Maandag 28 Des 2015 11:00 Lutheran Kerk, Springfield, Lukestraat 33, P.E.


MYBURGH, Ferdinand. Gedenkdiens Maandag 28 Desember 2015 11:30 NG Kerk

Swartkopsrivier, Blouwaterbaai. (Die Burger Oos-Kaap 23/12/2015)

Sue Shaw, First Avenue Funeral Home 041 581 5028

Hester Marx, Loerie

[email protected]

3 [Press ] The Mercury/Daily News Wednesday 23 Dec 2015.



Dag vriende,

QUICKQUIP:-" Everything I like is either illegal, immortal or fattening." -

Alexander WOOLLCOTT. [Love the last one].

MARRIAGES:-AKBURALLY Ameer & Ammara married at A Z Zahara Hall (photo)

JACOBS Sherwin & Angelique RODRIGUES married at Canelands Beach Club.

(photo)

MARTIN Craig & Angela married at St Joseph's Catholic Church, Glenwood.

(photo).

MONCUR Calvin & Dwayne married at Woodridge in the Midlands. (photo).

NAIDU Soshen & Krinasha married at DLI Hall. (photo).

SWANEPOEL Riaan & Thilissa married at Waterfall Cove, Johannesburg. (photo)

DEATHS:-NEW YORK:- VORDERBRUGGEN Major Adrianna + 21 Dec 2015 x Heather (

wife) and son Jacob.(Female Officer in the air force) was killed by a

suicide bomber near Bagram air base in Afghanistan. REUTERS

PARIS:- "Call Girl" French Madam dies at age 92:- GRUDET Fernande (Madame

CLAUDE) . She was married twice. 2nd time to get a US green card which she

used to flee France after being pursued for tax evasion. DAILY MAIL in DAILY

NEWS.

BOSWORTH SMITH Jean + 19 Dec 2015 at age 90 years. Mother and grandmother of

Gwen (Ian), Mervyn (Maryna), Cameron (Sarah), Oliver, Sadie, Jessica and

Antonia. RIP.

GOLIATH Abraham Randolph x Tania. Father of Tyra, Tiana and Christian.

Brother and cousin. Funeral on 24 Dec 2015 at The Kindom Living Ministries

Newlands East. Viewing at 10am. Service 11am. Proceeding to Dudley Street

Cemetery. ISIPINGO INC PAM'S 031 9022444.

KONAR Lock 1 Jan 1945 ---22 Dec 2015 x Joyce. Father of Wendy, Vernon and

Nivi. Brother of Bobby and VC and Radha. Funeral at his residence 21

Imperial Rd Havenside on 23 Dec 2015 from 11am ---12:30pm proceeding to Road

101, Vishnu Temple Hall from 1pm ---4pm. Cremation at Clare Estate

Crematorium.

LOGAN Elaine Monica 11 June 1928 ----18 Dec 2015 at age 87 years. Mother of

Philippa LOGAN and Roberta WOOLFSON. Grandmother of Lara and Belinda. You

will be missed by Clare, Alan, Coral, Mother-in-law of Alan, Pink, Melissa,

Natalie and Cameron.

REDDY Deenadayalen .Missed by Vanilla, Prean , Verushen, Sharlene, Caris,

Sanusha, brothers and sisters. 16th Day Memorial on 24 Dec 2015 at

Kharwastan Civic Hall Chatsworth at 11am. Lunch after service.

ROBINSON Gillian 19 July 1979 (date dfference) ----18 Dec 2015. DOVES

0860025500.

MEMORIAM:-GAILLARD Darren Kurt Joseph 3 Nov 1987 ---23 Dec 2007 (tragically)

Remembered with Love from Mum, Dad, Reese, Jodi-Leigh, Quentin, Darren-Jnr

and Summer. ;Gran, BRIDGER, DUNN ,GEORGE Families.

MERRY CHRISTMAS to all. / GESEENDE KERSFEES aan almal. /

Uit warm en winderige Durban

Willi & Rita Quebbemann.

4 Regstelling: Cloete-Lategan



Ek is in besit van „n Sterfkennis (VAB 190/58) vir Pieter Jacobus CLOETE * 17.7.1878 Maraisburg, KP +

2.2.1958 Bloemfontein,

woon Plot 142, Lakeview Nedersetting, PK Sperville, dist Bloemfontein

Hy het een kind uit sy eerste huwelik nl: Margaretha Hendrika Lategan CLOETE * 31.10.1910 + 5.10.1977

(66) # Silverton, Pretoria

x Andries Adriaan BISSCHOFF * 2.6.1914

Pieter se SK is geteken deur sy 2de vrou Engela Johanna Magrietha SMAL * 8.4.1904 Dewetsdorp vh.

Venter + 26.9.1979 Bloemfontein

Verskeie foute is op die SK indat Pieter se 1ste vrou aangegee word as: Maria Magdalena CLOETE

(gebore LATEGAN) + 4.6.1952,

terwyl haar besonderhede inderwaarheid as volg moet lees: Magdalena Jacoba CLOETE (gebore CLOETE)

+ 4.7.1952 (Est VAB 1255/52)

Ek sal hierdie SK‟s hou tot die einde van die jaar indien iemand daarin belangstel, waarna ek dit sal

„delete‟.

Groete

Nicky Lategan





1a Kersfeesgroete - Christmas goodwill by "Dennis Pretorius"

1b Re: Kersfeesgroete - Christmas goodwill by "Fina"

2 Hervormde Kerk op family search by "Lettie du Preez" skuddieboom

3a Johannes Cornelius MULDER gedoop Nov 1748 - getroud met wie?? by "Eddie Otte" otte.eddie

3b Re: Johannes Cornelius MULDER gedoop Nov 1748 - getroud met wie?? by "Annelie Els"

engelkind2000

3c Re: Johannes Cornelius MULDER gedoop Nov 1748 - getroud met wie?? by "Eddie Otte" otte.eddie

4 Ons Stammoeders se herkoms by "Jaco Strauss" jacostrauss

5a PIETER MELT COETZEE. by "Chris" chrismeyer4219

5b Re: PIETER MELT COETZEE. by "Fina"

6.1 Kerswense by "helen muller"

7 FEES GROETE. by "Naas Olivier"

8a Seënwense by "Annelie Els" engelkind2000

8b Geseende Dag by "Ina & Andrew Kingsley" inakingsley

9 [Press] The Mercury /Daily News Thursday 24 Dec 2015 CREDITORS ... by "Aletta Magrieta

Quebbemann" alettaqea9fac

10 [Press] The Mercury /Daily News Wednesday 24 Dec 2015 by "Aletta Magrieta Quebbemann"

alettaqea9fac

Messages

1a Kersfeesgroete - Christmas goodwill


"Dennis Pretorius"

Hallo almal

Ons beperk gewoonlik ons boodskappe tot genealogie-aangeleenthede maar

Kersfees is spesiaal en almal is welkom om hulle Christus-fees groete en

wense aan mede-lyslede oor te dra en dan ook sommer beste wense vir die nuwe

2016

Op die vooraand van Kersfees wil ek vir elkeen van julle 'n geseënde ware

Christus-fees toewens en vreugdevolle saamwees met julle families en

vriende.

Mag die samesyn vir julle almal sommer baie vreugde bring en ook sommer

daarby die smee van nuwe bande

Kuier lekker saam en onthou om die vrae oor die familie te vra wat julle nog

altyd wou !

Onthou om familie-fotos te neem !!

Groetnis

Whilst we normally limit discussion to genealogy, Christmas is very special

- so please feel free to convey your messages of goodwill to all on the list

- and also your new year wishes for 2016

My wish to each and every one reading this mail is for a joyous festival

celebrating the birth of Christ and memorable times with your loved ones

over this period

Please remember to ask all the family questions that you normally forget

about and take pictures !!

Enjoy !

Dennis Pretorius


Tel - 011-762-8911

Cel - 083-679-8541

Fax - 086-609-8541

1b Re: Kersfeesgroete - Christmas goodwill


"Fina"

Hallo Dennis

O ja, familie-fotos sal beslis geneem word en ek het reeds hierdie familie

se A-Z inligting so ek gaan vanjaar op staaltjies konsentreer. J

Geseënde Christus-fees aan jou en al die lyslede.

Groete vanuit 'n baie warm en bedompige Newcastle, KZN (more se weer lyk

weer heerlikJ)

Fina

ns Ek het nie van die Olifant vergeet nie hoor!


Sent: Thursday, 24 December, 2015 11:57 AM

To: [email protected]; [email protected];

[email protected]; [email protected]

Subject: [SA-Gen] Kersfeesgroete - Christmas goodwill

Hallo almal

Ons beperk gewoonlik ons boodskappe tot genealogie-aangeleenthede maar

Kersfees is spesiaal en almal is welkom om hulle Christus-fees groete en

wense aan mede-lyslede oor te dra en dan ook sommer beste wense vir die nuwe

2016

Op die vooraand van Kersfees wil ek vir elkeen van julle 'n geseënde ware

Christus-fees toewens en vreugdevolle saamwees met julle families en

vriende.

Mag die samesyn vir julle almal sommer baie vreugde bring en ook sommer

daarby die smee van nuwe bande

Kuier lekker saam en onthou om die vrae oor die familie te vra wat julle nog

altyd wou !

Onthou om familie-fotos te neem !!

Groetnis

Whilst we normally limit discussion to genealogy, Christmas is very special

- so please feel free to convey your messages of goodwill to all on the list

- and also your new year wishes for 2016

My wish to each and every one reading this mail is for a joyous festival

celebrating the birth of Christ and memorable times with your loved ones

over this period

Please remember to ask all the family questions that you normally forget

about and take pictures !!

Enjoy !

Dennis Pretorius


Tel - 011-762-8911

Cel - 083-679-8541

Fax - 086-609-8541

2 Hervormde Kerk op family search


"Lettie du Preez" skuddieboom

Dit is met groot vreugde wat ek kennis geneem het dat die Hervormde Kerk ook

nou soekbaar is.

Kan een van die kenners my asb help. Ek soek na die gemeente Cotesloe (hoop

die spelling is reg) in Johannesburg. As ek reg onthou is dit so `n

klipkerkie teen die rant en ek dink nie die gemeente bestaan meer nie. As

hulle nie meer bestaan nie, kan iemand my sê onder watter gemeente kan ek

Cotesloe se data soek? My voorsate het in Westdene gewoon en ek vermoed

hulle was hier in die 1930‟s lidmate by die gemeente Cotesloe.

Groete

Lettie du Preez

3a Johannes Cornelius MULDER gedoop Nov 1748 - getroud met wie??



Vriende,

Ek soek asseblief hulp by 'n MULDER kenner.

Google wys daar bestaan 'n MULDER stamboom. Ek het 'n deel daarvan op GENI

gekry. Ek wil graag daarin kom en iemand soek.

Volgens die Stellenbosch doopregister (Ockert Malan se harde werk) is

Johannes Cornelius MULDER gedoop op 3.11.1748. Sy ouers was Samuel Mulder en

Maria UYS. Die inligting verskyn ook in SAG. Samuel Mulder was die stamvader

Johan Jurgen MULDER se agste kind(e8).

SAG toon ook dat Johannes Cornelius op 22.12.1821 (hy was toe ongeveer 73

jaar oud) met Dorothea Hendrica Niehaus getroud is. Sy was toe ongeveer 18

jaar oud. Hoewel nie onmoontlik nie, tog dalk half onwaarskynlik.

Ek sal dus graag die huwelik van 22.12.1821 wil bevestig. Dalk het die

Mulder stamboom meer inligting. Die deel wat ek op GENI kon kry gee nie

Johannes Cornelius se vrou se inligting nie.

Kan iemand asseblief help, maw wie was Johannes Cornelius MILDER gedoop 3

Nov 1748 se vrou?

Asseblief.

Eddie Otte

081 042 0299


3b Re: Johannes Cornelius MULDER gedoop Nov 1748 - getroud met wie??



Hallo Eddie,

Ek het in die SAG gekyk.

Johann Jurgen MOLLER [Mulder] * Lenzen, Duitsland

[b8] Samuel = 4 Jan 1722 x Maria UYS

[c1] Dina Elizabeth x ODENDAAL xx de GRYS

[c2] Johannes Cornelis [geen ekstra data]

Johannes MULDER van Amsterdam x Kaapstad 22 Dec 1821 met Dorothea Hendrika

NIEHAUS.

Volgens SAG is die 2 van verskillende plekke en twee verskillende stamme.

Groetnis.

Annelie.




Subject: [SA-Gen] Johannes Cornelius MULDER gedoop Nov 1748 - getroud met

wie??

Vriende,















Nov 1748 se vrou?

Asseblief.

Eddie Otte

081 042 0299


3c Re: Johannes Cornelius MULDER gedoop Nov 1748 - getroud met wie??



Annelie,

Baie dankie vir jou hulp en aandag. Ek waardeer dit.

Volgens die SAG wat ek het (uitdruk hieronder), het Samuel Mulder en Maria

UYS wel twee kinders gehad. Dit is dieselfde name as wat jy gegee het -Dina

Elizabeth en Johannes Cornelis, maar dan volg Johannes van Amsterdam net

daarna. Dit lyk dus asof hulle "tweede" kind se naam Johannes Cornelis

Johannes is.

Dink jy dit is "twee"aparte mense? Die een is Johannes Cornelis (seun van

Samuel) en die ander een is heeltemal 'n ander man wie se naam net Johannes

is, maw 'n tik of uitleg fout in SAG om dit alles in een lyn te skryf?

Hoekom het hulle dit langs mekaar/by mekaar geskryf?

c1 Dina Elizabeth ? 9.10.1746 x 21.2.1762 Hendrik ODENDAAL xx J.H. DE GRYS

c2 Johannes Cornelis Johannes Mulder van Amsterdam x Kaapstad 22.12.1821

Dorothea Hendrika NIEHAUS

Asseblief.

Eddie Otte

081 042 0299





Subject: RE: [SA-Gen] Johannes Cornelius MULDER gedoop Nov 1748 - getroud

met wie??

Hallo Eddie,

Ek het in die SAG gekyk:

Johann Jurgen MOLLER [Mulder] * Lenzen, Duitsland

[b8] Samuel = 4 Jan 1722 x Maria UYS

[c1] Dina Elizabeth x ODENDAAL xx de GRYS

[c2] Johannes Cornelis [geen ekstra data]

Johannes MULDER van Amsterdam x Kaapstad 22 Dec 1821 met Dorothea Hendrika

NIEHAUS.

Volgens SAG is die 2 van verskillende plekke en twee verskillende stamme:

Groetnis.

Annelie.




Subject: [SA-Gen] Johannes Cornelius MULDER gedoop Nov 1748 - getroud met

wie??

Vriende,















Nov 1748 se vrou?

Asseblief.

Eddie Otte

081 042 0299


4 Ons Stammoeders se herkoms



Geseënde Kersfees almal

Hier is 'n lys van die bekende Stammoeders wie se DNS ons al bepaal het.

Julle sal sien dat Europeërs tans sowat 75% uitmaak met die Afrika en Indië

net so oor die 10% elk.

Europees 20

Afrika 3

Indië 3

Indonesië 1

---------------------

Totaal 27

Hierdie is natuurlik nog nie 'n verteenwoordigde steekproef nie, maar dit

leer ons reeds baie meer oor ons voorouers. Hier is die persone wat reeds

nasate het wat getoets het:

--------------------

** Europees **

--------------------

Haplogroup H

-------------------------------------------

Marie Couteau b 1659

Anna Maria Pietersz de Leeuw c1665

Trijntje Ganzevanger, b.1630

Marguerite Gardiol b 1670

Johanna HAESTER b.1683

Maria Kickers b 1655

Susanne LAURENT b 1640

Arijaantje Jacobs b 1673

Anna Maria Swart b 1695

Geertruij Willemsz b 1651

Haplogroup J

-------------------------------------------

Anne DES RUELLES b 1672

Maria Matthysse c.1650

Aaltje Nobel b. 1698

Fitje Raderootjes, b. 1625

Haplogroup K

-------------------------------------------

Sara Barents Cochet, ca. 1646

Haplogroup T

-------------------------------------------

Isabeau Le Bleu, b.1616

Marie Mouy, b 15 May 1685

Margaretha Gerrits b.c.1630

Haplogroup U

-------------------------------------------

Engeltje Cornelisse Van Der Bout. c 1670

Marie de Grave, b. 1664

--------------------

** Afrikaan **

--------------------

Haplogroup L0

-------------------------------------------

Regina van Guinea, b. 1650

Catharina Mauritz b. c.1720

Maria VAN DE KAAP (X WALTER XX VAN BILJON)

--------------------

** Maleisië **

--------------------

Haplogroup N

-------------------------------------------

Catharina van Malabar

--------------------

** Indië **

--------------------

Haplogroup M

-------------------------------------------

Anna GROOTHENNING

Haplogroup U2b

-------------------------------------------

Maria Jacobs (X De Vey), b.c.1686

Haplogroup R

-------------------------------------------

Adriana Jacoba van de Burgh / van die Kaap

FTDNA het op die oomblik (tot 31 Desember) spesiale aanbiedings op van hul

DNA toetse, gaan sien die aanbiedinge gerus hier...

https://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=CapeDutch

Miskien 'n goeie tyd om daardie Kersgeskenk aan mens self te oorweeg?

Feesgroete

Jaco

5a PIETER MELT COETZEE.



Sal die dame wat na Pieter Melt Coetzee inligting soek my asb kontak op

SA Gen. Ek het ongelukkig haar besonderhede verloor.

Dankie,

Chris Meyer,

Mosselbaai.......waar die besoekers ons vertrap, maar nogmaals

welkom is.

Geseënde Kersfees aan al my SA Gen vriende e.a.

5b Re: PIETER MELT COETZEE.


"Fina"

Naand Chris

Ek is die een wat inligting soek vir Pieter Melt Coetzee asseblief?

Geseënde Kersfees ook aan jou en al die lyslede. J


Sent: Thursday, 24 December, 2015 3:01 PM

To: SAGenealogie

Subject: [SA-Gen] PIETER MELT COETZEE.

Sal die dame wat na Pieter Melt Coetzee inligting soek my asb kontak op SA Gen. Ek het ongelukkig haar

besonderhede verloor.

Dankie,

Chris Meyer,

Mosselbaai.......waar die besoekers ons vertrap, maar nogmaals welkom is.

Geseënde Kersfees aan al my SA Gen vriende e.a.

6.1 Kerswense


"helen muller"

Goeie- dag lyslede!

Ja so ongemerk het dit stiller en stiller geword, natuurlik want ons mensies

is weg na hul geliefdes, en al hoe minder reageer nou!

Graag wil ek namens my en my man vir elkeen wat ons die afgelope jaar

gehelp met ons soeke na die BRITSE, MULLERS, ROSSOUWS baie dankie se.

Dit was opwindend, met elke positiewe resultaat was ons so opgewonde en dankbaar.

Graag wil ons vir elkeen en sy/haar gesin se; 'n Baie Geseende Feesgety, en

mag ons met die Genade van Bo almal uitsien na 2016, met die hoop en gebede vir meer

positiewe gebeure!

Seenwense en groete,

Piet en Helena Muller.

7 FEES GROETE.


"Naas Olivier"

Genealogiese vriende:-

Geseënde Kersfees en 'n voorspoedige 2016, geniet die feestyd saam met

familie en vriende.

Dankie vir al die hulp en vriendelikheid gedurende die afgelope jaar.

Fees groete.

NAAS en AMOR OLIVIER

[email protected]

JEFFREYSBAAI RSA.

NAVORSING:- Olivier/Burger – Pretorius/Steenkamp –Human/Vermeulen - Sounes

8a Seënwense



„n Geseënde Dag aan ieder en elk van julle.

Groetnis.

Paul en Annelie.

Pretoria.

8b Geseende Dag


"Ina & Andrew Kingsley" inakingsley

Geseende Dag aan Almal

Weskusgroete

Ina en Andrew

Saldanha

9 [Press] The Mercury /Daily News Thursday 24 Dec 2015 CREDITORS ...



Dag vriende,

QUICKQUIP:-"Maybe Christmas, the Grinch thought, doesn't come from a store."

- Children's author Dr SEUSS (1904 ---1991).

CREDITORS / DEBTORS:-

JEAN-LOUIS Herbert ID 41108 5073 08 1 (as in press) + 5 Sept 2015 of 133

Barracuda Rd, Newlands East, Durban 4037 x Mercy Pearl Maria JEAN-LOUIS ID

460923 0158 08 5 . ESTATE No . None . GAVIN GOW INC PO Box 610, Umhlanga

Rocks 4320 TEL:- 031 561 1011. FAX:- 031 5611059.

VAN DER MERWE Albertus Johannes ID 491115 5102 08 4 + 31 Oct 2015 of 11

Susan Ave, Ballito 4420 x Lynette VAN DER MERWE ID 600510 0126 08 8 . ESTATE

No 15935/ 2015. FNB TRUST SERVICES PO Box 212 Westville 3630. Taz Mahomed.

TEL:- +27 87 730 2560. GAVIN GOW INC PO Box 610, Umhlanga Rocks 4320 TEL:-

031 561 1011. FAX:- 031 5611059.

ZUNGU Mziwendaba Arron ID 470711 5448 08 2 + 12 June 2015 of A17

Umhlathuzana Rd, Tshelimnyama Marianhill x Busiswe ZUNGU ID 581011 0955 08 2

. ESTATE No 6632/2015. FNB TRUST SERVICES PO Box 212 Westville 3630. Taz

Mahomed. TEL:- +27 87 730 2560.

FIRST / FINAL:-

BEAUMONT Roy ID 241216 5019 08 9 + 26 June 2015 of 16 Saffron Ave, Glen

Anil, Durban North x Margaret Evelyn BEAUMONT ID 310128 0020 08 5. ESTATE

No 11400/2015. FNB TRUST SERVICES PO Box 212 Westville 3630. Shanaz SINGH .

TEL:- +27 87 730 2561

ERASMUS Cyril Stanley ID 491217 5071 08 5 + 27 May 2015 x Magdalena Sophia

ERASMUS ID 500807 0116 08 0 of 35 Old Saints Faiths Rd, Umtentweni. ESTATE

No 10353/2015. FNB TRUST SERVICES PO Box 212 Westville 3630. Shanaz SINGH .

TEL:- +27 87 730 2561

HOWE Charles Reginald ID 301027 5043 08 7 + 11 July 2015 of 2 Cottonfields

Cnr Harrison & Rinaldo Drive, Glenhills. ESTATE No 11230/2015. FNB TRUST

SERVICES PO Box 212 Westville 3630. Shanaz SINGH . TEL:- +27 87 730 2561.

JEENA Tansukh ID 450205 5102 08 2 + none of 48 Furness Ave, Overport,

Durban 4001 x Tarmati JEENA ID 470919 0108 08 6. ESTATE No 003672/2015/DBN.

RAMATHE, DESAI, BHAGAT & JEENA Suite 104, Lupin House 101 Dr R.D. Naidu

Drive, Asherville . Email:-> [email protected] < TEL:- 031 268 9800

NAIDOO Jayabalan Annamalay ID 510513 5166 08 2 + none x Saraspathi NAIDOO ID

481021 0579 08 0 of 15 Townmanor Garden, Phoenix 4068. ESTATE No

05874/2015/KZN. BEZUIDENHOUT ATTORNEYS 111 Helen Joseph Rd Glenwood. >

[email protected] < TEL:- 031 2017112.

POTTS Janet Anne ID 580425 0056 08 2 + 10 Aug 2015 of 21 Ocean Gardens, 115

Waterkant Rd, Durban North. ESTATE No 10355/2015/DBN. CHRISTOPHEN TREVOR

WENSLEY PO Box 51014 Musgrave Rd 4062, TEL:- 031 303 1080.

SENGANE Zingibone Joel ID 430206 5124 08 9 + 26 Jan 2015 of Mathulini Area,

Ward 17, Mthwalume x in community of property to Mtuza Florina SENGANE ID

420712 0360 08 3. ESTATE No 1173/2015/DBN. FNB TRUST SERVICES PO Box 212

Westville 3630. Noleen KWAME . TEL:- +27 87 730 2577

SUBRAYEN Raman ID 270915 5077 08 8 + 19 June 2002 of 319 Himalaya Drive,

Shallcross, Durban. ESTATE No 7355/2004/PMB. DYKES VAN HEERDEN Seadoone

Office Park Block 1, 34 Seadoone Rd, Amanzimtoti 4126. TEL:- 031 9031851.

Gegroet uit Durban waar dit feitlik middernag is en dit reen so tussen in.

Rita Quebbemann.

10 [Press] The Mercury /Daily News Wednesday 24 Dec 2015



Dag vriende,

Geseende Kersfees aan almal.

QUICKQUIP:- "Happy, happy Christmas, that can win us back to the delusions

of our childhood days, recall to the old man the pleasures of his youth, and

transport the traveller back to his own fireside and quiet home. " -Charles

DICKENS.

MARRIAGES:- HUGHES Grant & Nadine married at uMhlanga Beach 23 Dec 2015.

They live in Suffolk England. Formely from Durban and their parents are

still in Durban. DAILY NEWS Mphathi NXUMALO.

DEATHS:- ARMSTRONG Robert Stanley Ross + 23 Dec 2015. Father and grandfather

to Michael, Vanessa, Sarah, Kate, Emma, Di , Sean, Sally, Murray , Robert

and Bruce.; Love from Jill; Love from Victoria & Rchard in Edinburgh.

BUTER Alida Corneli (Alie) 24 May 1935 -----22 Dec 2015. Thank you to The

Village Staff. Memorial at Glenwood Presbyterian Church on 24 Dec 2015 at

3pm. Donation to Boys Town. No flowers. OAKLEIGH 031 2059959.

CHETTY Maryamah (Mary) 20 Nov 1918 ----10 Dec 2015. Funeral on 25 Dec 2015

from 3----4pm at Shree Ranganather Temple Society Hall Greenwood Park

Temple. Supper will be served after service. TEL:- Selvan CHETTY 082409 4337

Tiny CHETTY 083 235 4820.

KOOPAL Amber Simone 17 Feb 1972 -----17 Dec 2015. Service on 28 Dec 2015 at

Northrand Methodist Church Blandford Rd at 2pm.

MICHAEL EDWIN + 22 Dec 2015 at age 71 years x Savy. Father of Neil, Noeleen

and grandfather of Emma. Funeral at Our Lady Of Vailankanni by Father

Grant EMMANUEL on 24 Dec 2015 at 11---1pm. Cremation at 2pm at Mobeni

Heights Crematorium.

SMITH DUDLEY MORTON 1940 ----2015 Suddenly and tragically x Pat. Father and

father-in-law of Gayleen, Lionel, Ashley, Derry, Maren and Ross. Grandfather

and uncle of Kayleigh, Claire, Chase, Cassandra, Tristan and Bianca, Lara

and Zayne.

MORRISON Allen Lawrence Ross + 22 Dec 2015.Father and grandfather of Graeme,

Neil, Jenne, Jen, Dylan, Rowan, Sean, Kerry-Leigh and James. Memorial at 3

Woodview Rd, Westcliff on 29 Dec 2015 at 11am. DAILY NEWS

SPRINGKAAN Ian of Wentworth. Brother of Marie, Doris, Tina, Kathy and

Yvonne. Brother-in-law of Sipho, Isaac, Patrick and Jack. Funeral on 26 Dec

2015 at St Gabriel's Church Austerville Wentworth at 12:30. Viewing at

12noon. Cremation private. ISIPINGO INC PAM'S 031 9022444.

VAN TONDER Koos 1932 - 22 Dec 2015. Husband ,Father and grandfather.

MEMORIAM:- HARMSWORTH Dennis 24 July 1932 -----24 Dec 2003. Husband of Joyce

and father ,and grandfather. ; Remembered by Derek, Sue, Denim and Simone.

JEYCOCKE Warren Lee + 24 Dec 2013 .Remembered by Mom & Dad.

Gegroet uit Winderige en warm Durban

Rita Quebbemann.





1 POLIGAMIE ONDER 19 DE EEUSE AFRIKANERS by "Daniel Jacobs" danielmalanjacobs

2a Re: Ons Stammoeders se herkoms by "Jaco Strauss" jacostrauss

Messages

1 POLIGAMIE ONDER 19 DE EEUSE AFRIKANERS


"Daniel Jacobs" danielmalanjacobs

Beste Vriende

In die boek *Christianity in South Africa. A Political, Social and Cultural

HIstory* (Edited and compiled by Richard Elphick and Rodney Davenport) -

gepubliseer in 1997 - staan op bladsy 123 die volgende:

"Thus within the GK (nota: Gereformeerde Kerk) a clear division existed

along family lines between the orthodox Calvinists and other more inclined

to folk beliefs, and even such practices as polygamy."

Daar is 'n voetnoot by die aanhaling wat lees:

"Professor Johan Snyman and several prominent Transvaal Afrikaners told us

they knew that during the nineteenth century members of their families had

been polygamous"

Die betrokke hoofstuk se titel is The Spread of Christianity among Whites

and Blacks in Transorangia en die outeurs is Irving Hexham en Karla Poewe.

Weet enige van julle iets van hierdie beweerde poligamie onder Afrikaners?

By

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/edit/a.10150783868846667.468046.723756666/

is 'n album waar ek skanderings geplaas het wat betrekking het op

bostaande. Daar het ek o.a. ook by 'n vorige geleentheid die volgende gesê:

" Nog van die aanhalings waarop ek al m.b.t. ons voorouers se sedelike en

geestelike lewens teengekom het is die volgende:

Leen van Valen haal in sy biografie oor Andrew Murray Junior vir Andrew

Murray Senior in 1844 as volg aan uit 'n brief wat hy in 1844 uit

Graaff-Reinet aan sy seun gestuur het na aanleiding van sy opmerking dat hy

gaan Teologie studeer: "De dienst in de kerk van Zuid-Afrika belooft je

niet veel van de rijkdom en het gemak van de wereld , maar biedt je een

veld van nuttigheid aan, so uitgebreid als je kunt verlangen, en dat onder

een vriendelijk en verdraagzaam volk." Ek aanvaar hy verwys hier na die

Afrikaners - onder wie hy self predikant was.

In 'n artikel wat in Desember 1877 in The Cape Monthly Magazine verskyn het

haal Prof. John Murray - broer van Andrew Murray Junior - op bl. 370-372 'n

gedeelte aan uit die digter Thomas Pringle se besoek aan Schalk Burger van

die Sneeuberg (Bron: Thomas Pringle: African Sketches, London, 1834). In sy

kommentaar op die aanhaling noem hy o.a. dat Burger net een seun gehad het

en dat sy broer Barend as Barend Predikant bekendegstaan het. Vir die

artikel sien

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=312195&id=723756666&l=a547d36922

Hierdie besoek het in die 1820's plaasgevind aldus inligting wat ek by

http://books.google.co.za/books?id=OYbuLXbFwscC&pg=PR20&dq=%22AFRICAN+SKETCHES%22+

PRINGLE+%22schalk+burger%22&hl=en&ei=qhoeTaK5BJGs4QbRi62GAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=

result&resnum=1&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22AFRICAN%20SKETCHES%22%20PRIN

GLE%20%22schalk%20burger%22&f=false

gesien het.

Pringle vertel van die gasvryheid waarmee hy ontvang is en m.b.t. die

Sondag se kerkdiens dat "I was glad to see, what I had never witnessed on

the Frontier, that the slaves and Hottentots belonging to the household

were also freely admitted."

In sy kommentaar op die aanhaling sê John Murray o.a. ook die volgende:

"The inquisitive reader of this pleasing sketch will perhaps enquire, in

how far does the picture represent a rare instance of the religious and

social virtues here described, or does it apply to a whole class in the

community? To this it may be replied that, though Schalk Burger was an

eminently favourable specimen of the Dutch Boer, he was by no means a rare

one."

Ek het onlangs ook iets interessants oor die Die Doppers gelees in

Spoelstra se Geskiedenis van Die Doppers. Die Doppers kan mos hulle

oorsprong na veral die Middelburg, Kaap distrik terugvoer. Ene CF Corner

maak in 1815 die volgende opmerking:

'The farmers beyond Graaff-Reinet, appear in general to bear more

aspirations for the word of God. I believe more than those at Uitenhage...'"

Groete

Daniel

2a Re: Ons Stammoeders se herkoms



Naand lyslede

Ek vertrou dat julle die Kersgety geniet. Indien iemand nog 'n paar minute

beskikbaar het vir navorsing - en die epos oor ons Oormoeder DNS

interessant gevind het - hier is die skakel na al die mtDNA uitslae:

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/CapeDutch?iframe=mtresults

Kersgroete

Jaco

----------------------------------------------------------

Ons Stammoeders se herkoms

Thu Dec 24, 2015 4:25 am (PST) .

Posted by: "Jaco Strauss" jacostrauss

Geseënde Kersfees almal

Hier is 'n lys van die bekende Stammoeders wie se DNS ons al bepaal het.

Julle sal sien dat Europeërs tans sowat 75% uitmaak met die Afrika en Indië

net so oor die 10% elk.

Europees 20

Afrika 3

Indië 3

Indonesië 1

---------------------

Totaal 27

Hierdie is natuurlik nog nie 'n verteenwoordigde steekproef nie, maar dit

leer ons reeds baie meer oor ons voorouers. Hier is die persone wat reeds

nasate het wat getoets het:

--------------------

** Europees **

--------------------

Haplogroup H

-------------------------------------------

Marie Couteau b 1659

Anna Maria Pietersz de Leeuw c1665

Trijntje Ganzevanger, b.1630

Marguerite Gardiol b 1670

Johanna HAESTER b.1683

Maria Kickers b 1655

Susanne LAURENT b 1640

Arijaantje Jacobs b 1673

Anna Maria Swart b 1695

Geertruij Willemsz b 1651

Haplogroup J

-------------------------------------------

Anne DES RUELLES b 1672

Maria Matthysse c.1650

Aaltje Nobel b. 1698

Fitje Raderootjes, b. 1625

Haplogroup K

-------------------------------------------

Sara Barents Cochet, ca. 1646

Haplogroup T

-------------------------------------------

Isabeau Le Bleu, b.1616

Marie Mouy, b 15 May 1685

Margaretha Gerrits b.c.1630

Haplogroup U

-------------------------------------------

Engeltje Cornelisse Van Der Bout. c 1670

Marie de Grave, b. 1664

--------------------

** Afrikaan **

--------------------

Haplogroup L0

-------------------------------------------

Regina van Guinea, b. 1650

Catharina Mauritz b. c.1720

Maria VAN DE KAAP (X WALTER XX VAN BILJON)

--------------------

** Maleisië **

--------------------

Haplogroup N

-------------------------------------------

Catharina van Malabar

--------------------

** Indië **

--------------------

Haplogroup M

-------------------------------------------

Anna GROOTHENNING

Haplogroup U2b

-------------------------------------------

Maria Jacobs (X De Vey), b.c.1686

Haplogroup R

-------------------------------------------

Adriana Jacoba van de Burgh / van die Kaap

FTDNA het op die oomblik (tot 31 Desember) spesiale aanbiedings op van hul

DNA toetse, gaan sien die aanbiedinge gerus hier...


Miskien 'n goeie tyd om daardie Kersgeskenk aan mens self te oorweeg?

Feesgroete

Jaco





1 Greeff/Van Wyk by "Ferdie van Wyk"

2a Re: POLIGAMIE ONDER 19 DE EEUSE AFRIKANERS by thinus_in_canberra

2b Re: POLIGAMIE ONDER 19 DE EEUSE AFRIKANERS by "Rassie"

3 [Press] Sunday Tribune 27 Dec 2015 by "Aletta Magrieta Quebbemann" alettaqea9fac

Messages

1 Greeff/Van Wyk


"Ferdie van Wyk"

Goeienaand Almal

Ek is op soek na die geboortedatum van Christina Jacoba GREEFF dogter van

Daniel Michael GREEFF en Johanna Abrahamina Smit SMIT

Sy was getroud met Dirk Johannes Louis VAN WYK * 15 Apr 1868 en oorlede ca

1918. Die dorpe ter sprake is Clanwilliam en Prieska.

Groete,

Ferdie van Wyk

Navorser van die familie van Wyk van die Tarka

Doringkloof, Centurion

082-556-8031

2a Re: POLIGAMIE ONDER 19 DE EEUSE AFRIKANERS


thinus_in_canberra

Met so 'n vae verwysing, sonder detail, ruik ek 'n rot. Sulke tipe boeke word dikwels met 'n sterk politieke

agenda geskryf en ongelukkig pas dit die agenda vir baie mense huidiglik om ons voorvaders as agterlike

en nou selfs sedelose setlaars te beskryf.

Thinus

2b Re: POLIGAMIE ONDER 19 DE EEUSE AFRIKANERS


"Rassie"

Beste Daniel en Lyslede,

Sover ek weet het nie een van die tradisionele Afrikaner Kerke poligamie of

poliandrie (huwelik van een vrou met meer as een man) toegelaat nie en sou

nooit 'n huwelik bevestig waarvan een van die eggenote reeds getroud was

nie. Dit was juis een van die redes waarom gebooie eers oor 'n tyd moes

loop voor die huwelik.

Regtelik sou so 'n huwelik, sover dit persone van Europese afkoms betref

het, in elk geval ab initio ongeldig gewees het.

En indien daar wel in die praktyk poligamiste was, dan was dit in elk geval

nie met die goedkeuring van die tradisionele Afrikaner Kerke of in

ooreenstemming met die destydse morele opvattinge van die

Afrikanergemeenskap of die wette van toentertyd nie.

Dit sou dan maar iets gewees het soos die hedendaagse openlike skelm

verhouding waarvan almal weet en almal oor skinder sonder om iets daaraan

te doen.

Groete,

Rassie

2015-12-28 0:54 GMT+02:00 [email protected] [SAGenealogie] <

[email protected]>:

> Met so 'n vae verwysing, sonder detail, ruik ek 'n rot. Sulke tipe boeke

> word dikwels met 'n sterk politieke agenda geskryf en ongelukkig pas dit

> die agenda vir baie mense huidiglik om ons voorvaders as agterlike en nou

> selfs sedelose setlaars te beskryf.

> Thinus

3 [Press] Sunday Tribune 27 Dec 2015



Dag vriende,

So begin ons weer.

QUICKQUIP:-" I am one of those people who just can't help getting a kick out

of life even when it's a kick in the teeth. " - Polly ADLER.

BIRTH:- BASSA Faeeza (25) a son Uzair * 25 Dec 2015. Brother to Abdulla (2).

ZULU Mfundo & Afika RADEBE (19) a son Lwandiso * 25 Dec 2015 at St

Augustines Hospital.

A 14 year old girl gave birth at St Appolonaris.

A 16 year old gave birth at Mosvold Hospital.

Two 15year olds gave birth at Lower Umfolozi War Memorial and Murchison

Hospitals. Clinton MOODLEY at > [email protected] <

DEATHS:-GUMBI Dr Rachel Vuyiswa + 25 Dec 2015 at age 73. She was first

black president of South African Nursing Council. (1995 ---2003).STAFF

REPORTER.

MORGAN John Phillip Llewellyn 18 July 1939 ---17 Dec 2015 in Bryanston at

home x Barbara Ann. Father of Lou, Carren. Brother-in-law of Dee. ;In memory

of the leader of our pack From Choya, Nevada, Cindy, River and Chloe your

fur babies.; All our love, Barbara, Steve & Di, Louella & Leigh, Carren &

Ed, Kyle & Sam, Rourke & Nicola, James & Kate. Funeral at Fourways Memorial

Park, 1 Memorial Lane (off Campbell/Inchanga) on 6 Jan 2016 at 2pm.

MUDARAY (KUPPUSAMY) Kullamma Parvathy x + Kuppusamy WHOORIE. Missed by her

children ,children-in-law and grandchildren, great and

great-great-grandchildren. 15th Day Memorial on 1 Jan 2015 at The Woodhurst

Multicultural Hall (Unit 10). Supper from 5pm ---6:30pm Service starts at

7pm.. TEL:- 031 404 1621.

PILLAY Deenadayalan (Deena). 16th Day Memorial at Shallcross Temple Hall

on 2 Jan 2016 . Supper from 5pm ---6:30pm Service from 7pm . Enquires Brian

0722 103 603.

QUINN Solly + 22 Dec 2015 x Jeanette for 56 years. Father of + Leonie.

Father of Steven, Colleen and Tracey. Father-in-law of James . Grandfather

of Krystine, Jordan, Reece, Skye, Kira, Ryan, Luke. Great-grandfather of

Wyatt. SHANLEY'S 031 2057644.

PILLAY Sunny Dorasamy x Baby. Father of Sundrie, Lulu and Strini.

Father-in-law of Annie and + Prega. Grandfather of Natasha, Taragan, Tanya,

Delwyn, Sherilene, and Relwyn. Brother of Pushpa, Devi, Shunba, + Barney,

Bobby, Deedy, Baby and Soundalay. Brother-in-law and uncle. Funeral at

Multicultural Hall in Woodhurst Library. Viewing from 11:30----2pm.

Cremation at Clare Estate Crematorium at 3:30pm.

WORMAN John Winston + 22 Dec 2015 . Partner of Tina. Father of Stuart,

Alistair, Gregory and Gabi. Brother of Lynette and Wendy.

MEMORIAM:-BISSCHOFF Charles. 25 years now. Remembered.

CLARKE George Arnold. Father of Tony and Alice.

COMBRINK Yvonne . Remembered by her Nursing friends.

ENSOR Stephen 1975 ----2009. Stevie I miss you from Gran; Aso from your

uncle Greg.

GOTHI John & Andrina. Parents of Nicky, Rose, Prinolin and Leevin.

HARDCOMBE Marian. Wife, mother and grandmother of Frank, Lynne, Kerry,

Janine, Keith, Graham and Robbie.

HATTON Desmond Joseph 13 April 1936 ----26 Dec 2010 . Husband ,father and

grandfather of Pat, Chantel, Greg and Tarryn.

MAHABIR Sukdew 23 Aug 1937 ---9 Dec 2015.

McKIE Craig John. 24 years gone now. Husband and father. From Mom and Dawn.

MOODLEY Sunny. Husband and father. 1 Year Memorial on 3 Jan 2016 at 11am at

Orrissa Hall, Umkomaas.

NAIDOO Kistensamy (Sonny) + 15 Dec 2003.Missed by Ronnie NAIDOO , family and

friends.

NAIDOO Nita + 23 Dec 2012 x Gona NAIDOO. Mother of Renira, Yakshini and

Neshchalin. Grandchildren and Sons-in-law.

PERUMAL Grace + 26 Dec 2014 x Chris. Mother of Marilyn nd Tanya.

Mother-in-law of Mayson and grandmother of Racquel, Ocean and Trinity.

REDDY Ugan 26 Dec 1970 ----28 March 2013. Remembered by the REDDY family

Tongaat.

SEWDUTH Terrishka 26 Dec 1991 ---23 Sept 2001. On your Birthday we remember

from Ma, Dad, Mum, Barush and Nikhael.

WALMSLEY Ginger. Husband , father and grandfather of Helga, Ian, Charmaine,

Sally-Ann, Marion and Families.

Gegroet uit Durban

Gelukkig is dit nie te warm of koud nie.

Rita Quebbemann.





1 Alewyn Bernhardus Smit nasaat by "Petra Bezuidenhout" petrabezuidenhout

2a Re: PIETER MELT COETZEE. by "Chris" chrismeyer4219

2b Re: PIETER MELT COETZEE. by "Fina"

3a Ons Stammoeders se herkoms by "Ockert Malan"


Messages

1 Alewyn Bernhardus Smit nasaat


"Petra Bezuidenhout" petrabezuidenhout

Hooggeagte Lyslede,

My navraag handel oor die onderstaande nasaat van Jan Smit deur lg.se agter-kleinseun Alewyn

Bernhardus Smit (2660) – die jongste kind van hierdie Alewyn by Elisabeth Smit:

2664 e4 Johannes Petrus Tobias <51545>(2660/x), » Cape Province 26.08.1810, † Pampoenkraal, dist.

Piketberg27.04.1883 »a Reference number: 51545 »» Children (6): 2665, 2682, 2691, 2692,2693, 2694 x

Swartland 06.03.1831, Hilletje Aletta Alberta VISSER <51546>, » 22.04.1810

VERSOEK: Is daar enigiemand wat dalk meer inligtinghet oor JPT se jonger dogter: 2693 f5 Elizabeth

Christina <51563>(2664/x), * 19.03.1847, » Piketberg 19.09.1847. »a Reference number: 51563

My (Smith)-familie vors die moontlikheid nadat sy dalk ons biologiese grootmoeder was. Ons oupa,

Johanes Fredrik Smit(h) [* 18Aug.1867(vlg. Geslagregister) vlg.grafsteen 1868, † 15.02.1960] was „n

buite-egtelike kind en ons spoor geen inligting oor sy ouers op nie. Hy is deur haar ouer suster Huibrecht

Aletta Johanna <51562>(2664/x), * 19.08.1843 grootgemaak.

Met waardering vir enige hulp!

Petra Bezuidenhout

Polokwane

[email protected]

2a Re: PIETER MELT COETZEE.



Hallo Fina,

Jammer ek antwoord nou eers, maar die druk van die Kersseisoen hou 'n

mens maar besig. Goed, ek het 'n PIETER MELT COETZEE in my Meyer boek op

Bls 128. Ek weet nie of dit dieselfde persoon is na wie jy soek nie,

maar aangesien dit 'n redelike skaars naam is, gee ek dit vir jou deur

vir wat dit mag werd wees. Hy trou met 'n Meyer dame:

B4,C7,D12,E9,F3,G1.: CATHARINE ELIZABETH HEYNS MEYER *14.06.1894 #

George 26.08.1894 + Somerset Wes 09.09.1986. X Oudtshoorn 20.04.1920

PIETER MELT COETZEE * 29.12.1892 (S.v. Christoffel Coetzee & Petronella

Maria Alberts) Hul het 6 kinders. (4 Dogters en 2 Seuns) - Nou die

slegte nuus: Nie een van die 2 seuns het die naam van hul vader nie,

maar dit kon dalk later bygekom het by die kleinkinders. Hier is die

seuns se info:

H1; COETZEE, Christoffel Derick * 08.04. 1922 (Stadsklerk van

Willowmore) X 11.10.1947 Johanna Fouche * 04.05.1924.

H3: COETZEE, Gert Hendrik * 12.07.1926. Boer. X Barrydale 13.05.1950

Anna Susanna Nel. * 03.06.1932 + 1998.

Ek weet nie of jy in die 4 susters belangstel nie ? Ek gee maar die name

by:

H2: Susanna Herculina * c 1924 -+ by geboorte

H4: Susanna (Susie) * 16.09.1930. X Christiaan Petrus Johannes Du Toit

H5: Petronella Maria (Memorie) * 05.09.1933. X Hermanus Potgieter XX

Maritz v.d. Westhuizen

H6: Sheila * 30.05.1935. X Daniel C. Esterhuyse.

NB: Catharine se suster (G2) is met die Robertsons van George/Groot Brak

Riv getroud.

Nou ja, hoop dit gaan help. Daar is 'n baie interessante storie m.b.t

Catharine se ouers. Dis 'n lang storie. Sal stuur as nodig.

Voorspoed vir die Nuwe Jaar en geniet die soeke na die voorouers.

Groete Chris Meyer,

Mosselbaai.

2b Re: PIETER MELT COETZEE.


"Fina"

Hallo Chris

BAIE dankie! Ek gaan beslis ingaan op hierdie name. Pieter Melt is „n skaars naam. My oupa moes na hom

vernoem word maar is uiteindelik as Peter Melly geregistreer. Moontlik kom hierdie naam ook voor in die

CD wat ek van GISA bestel het en nou gekry het. …. oops nee, die CD gaan net tot L.

Voorspoedige nuwe jaar vir julle op Mosselbaai!

Groete

Fina


Sent: Monday, 28 December, 2015 12:02 PM


Subject: [SA-Gen] Re: PIETER MELT COETZEE.

Hallo Fina,

Jammer ek antwoord nou eers, maar die druk van die Kersseisoen hou 'n mens maar besig. Goed, ek het 'n

PIETER MELT COETZEE in my Meyer boek op Bls 128. Ek weet nie of dit dieselfde persoon is na wie jy

soek nie, maar aangesien dit 'n redelike skaars naam is, gee ek dit vir jou deur vir wat dit mag werd wees.

Hy trou met 'n Meyer dame:

B4,C7,D12,E9,F3,G1.: CATHARINE ELIZABETH HEYNS MEYER *14.06.1894 # George 26.08.1894 +

Somerset Wes 09.09.1986. X Oudtshoorn 20.04.1920 PIETER MELT COETZEE * 29.12.1892 (S.v.

Christoffel Coetzee & Petronella Maria Alberts) Hul het 6 kinders. (4 Dogters en 2 Seuns) - Nou die slegte

nuus: Nie een van die 2 seuns het die naam van hul vader nie, maar dit kon dalk later bygekom het by die

kleinkinders. Hier is die seuns se info:

H1; COETZEE, Christoffel Derick * 08.04. 1922 (Stadsklerk van Willowmore) X 11.10.1947 Johanna

Fouche * 04.05.1924.

H3: COETZEE, Gert Hendrik * 12.07.1926. Boer. X Barrydale 13.05.1950 Anna Susanna Nel. *

03.06.1932 + 1998.

Ek weet nie of jy in die 4 susters belangstel nie ? Ek gee maar die name by:

H2: Susanna Herculina * c 1924 -+ by geboorte

H4: Susanna (Susie) * 16.09.1930. X Christiaan Petrus Johannes Du Toit

H5: Petronella Maria (Memorie) * 05.09.1933. X Hermanus Potgieter XX Maritz v.d. Westhuizen

H6: Sheila * 30.05.1935. X Daniel C. Esterhuyse.

NB: Catharine se suster (G2) is met die Robertsons van George/Groot Brak Riv getroud.

Nouja, hoop dit gaan help. Daar is 'n baie interessante storie m.b.t Catharine se ouers. Dis 'n lang storie. Sal

stuur as nodig.

Voorspoed vir die Nuwe Jaar en geniet die soeke na die voorouers.

Groete Chris Meyer,

Mosselbaai.

3a Ons Stammoeders se herkoms


"Ockert Malan"

Beste Jaco,

Met verwysing na jou boodskap op SA-GEN:

Kan jy my 'n bietjie help asseblief? Dit gaan oor die onderstaande hofie

wat gevolg word deur vier families.

*Haplogroup U5b2b3a (mtDNA) [South Africa; Agatha Blom]*

Beteken dit dat hierdie vier families almal van Agatha Blom afstam? (Ek

neem aan dat dit Agatha Blom b1 is - want daar was ook onder die c's 'n Agatha Blom)

En wat beteken die "South Africa" by Agatha Blom?

Ek stel belang omdat die vermoede ernstig geopper is dat Agatha Blom se ma

Catharina van oosterse oorspring was.

Met groete,

Sasa Malan



"Hester Marx"

Sterfgevalle

DELPORT, Jacoba Wilhelmina (Meisie). *31/08/1937. +Woensdag 23 Desember 2015. Diens Woensdag

30 Des 2015 14:00 NG Kerk De Mist, Uitenhage. Jubileepark-begraafplaas. (Die Burger O-Kaap

28/12/2015)

DOVES Uitenhage 041 992 1349

Hester Marx, Loerie

[email protected]





1a Probleem by "Frik Venter." hexrivier1234

1b Re: Probleem by vanjaarsveld_jan

2a Wes Kaap Argief se ure by "Eddie Otte" otte.eddie

2b Re: Wes Kaap Argief se ure by "Johan van Breda" cjohanvanbreda

2c Re: Wes Kaap Argief se ure by "Eddie Otte" otte.eddie

2d Re: Wes Kaap Argief se ure by "Annelie Els" engelkind2000

2e Re: Wes Kaap Argief se ure by "Eddie Otte" otte.eddie

2f Re: Wes Kaap Argief se ure by "Annelie Els" engelkind2000

3 Zerilda Steyn geb Minnaar by "Martie du Toit" martie_dutoit

Messages

1a Probleem



Geagte lede,

Is daar dalk iemand wat al hierdie van tee gekom het, en die regte spelling daarvan.

She rabie, Che rabie, She raby, Che raby of so iets.

Of is dit dalk 'n naam gekoppel aan die van Rabie

Seën groete

Frik.



Postma Familie

Buytendag Familie



1b Re: Probleem


vanjaarsveld_jan

Goeie dag Frik,

Of dit dieselfde familienaam is waarna jy verwys wis ek nie maar "Cherabie•" is 'n Midde-Oosterse van en

as ek dit nie mis het nie kom dit hoofsaaklik in Lebanon voor.

Beste groete,

Jan H.

Canberra

From: 'Frik Venter.' [email protected] [SAGenealogie]

Sent: Tuesday, 29 December 2015 9:44 PM


Subject: [SA-Gen] Probleem

Geagte lede,

Is daar dalk iemand wat al hierdie van tee gekom het, en die regte spelling daarvan.

She rabie, Che rabie, She raby, Che raby of so iets.

Of is dit dalk 'n naam gekoppel aan die van Rabie

Seën groete

Frik.



Postma Familie

Buytendag Familie



2a Wes Kaap Argief se ure



Lysvriende,

Weet iemand dalk of die Wes Kaap Argief Woensdag 30 Desember op sal wees?

Asseblief.

Eddie Otte

081 042 0299


2b Re: Wes Kaap Argief se ure


"Johan van Breda" cjohanvanbreda

Eddie, Gesluit vanaf 11:00 op 24.12.2015. Heropen weer 08:00 op 4.1.2016.

Johan van Breda

Kaapstad

2015-12-29 13:22 GMT+02:00 'Eddie Otte' [email protected]


> Lysvriende,

>

> Weet iemand dalk of die Wes Kaap Argief Woensdag 30 Desember op sal wees?

> Asseblief.

>

> *Eddie Otte*

> *081 042 0299 081

> C0042%200299>

> *Families-OTTE, MOLL, LOMBARD, VAN NIEKERK, VILJOEN*

2c Re: Wes Kaap Argief se ure



Johan,

Baie dankie vir die "slegte"• nuus.

Eddie




Subject: Re: [SA-Gen] Wes Kaap Argief se ure


Johan van Breda

Kaapstad

2015-12-29 13:22 GMT+02:00 'Eddie Otte' [email protected] [SAGenealogie]

<[email protected]>:

Lysvriende,

Weet iemand dalk of die Wes Kaap Argief Woensdag 30 Desember op sal wees?

Asseblief.

Eddie Otte

081 <tel:081%C2%A0042%200299> 042 0299


2d Re: Wes Kaap Argief se ure



Eddie,

Hang af, as dit `n SK is wat jy soek kan jy dit op die FamilySearch se webblad opspoor!.

Groetnis.

Annelie




Subject: RE: [SA-Gen] Wes Kaap Argief se ure

Johan,

Baie dankie vir die â€œslegteâ€• nuus.

Eddie






Johan van Breda

Kaapstad

2e Re: Wes Kaap Argief se ure



Annelie,

Dit is 'n SK, maar waar en hoe soek ek ˜n SK in FamilySearch?

Ek weet hoe om ˜n persoon (naam en van en huweliksmaat) te soek, maar hoe en waar in FamilySearch

soek ek die SKs?

Help asseblief. Ek waardeer altyd jou hulp.

Eddie Otte

081 042 0299



Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 10:17 AM



Eddie,

Hang af, as dit `n SK is wat jy soek kan jy dit op die FamilySearch se webblad opspoor!.

Groetnis.

Annelie.





Johan,

Baie dankie vir die â€œslegteâ€• nuus.

Eddie






Johan van Breda

Kaapstad

2f Re: Wes Kaap Argief se ure



Ek antwoord jou privaat.

Grts.

Annelie.





Annelie,

Dit is 'n SK, maar waar en hoe soek ek 'n SK in FamilySearch?

Ek weet hoe om 'n persoon (naam en van en huweliksmaat) te soek, maar hoe en waar in FamilySearch

soek ek die SKs?

Help asseblief. Ek waardeer altyd jou hulp.

Eddie Otte

081 042 0299


3 Zerilda Steyn geb Minnaar



Vir jare soek ek al die familieverband tussen Zerilda Steyn met my voorouers en het al versoeke op SAGen

daaroor gehad. My nou oorlede tannie het gesê sy was 'n niggie van my ouma Elsie Helena du Toit geb van

Heerden en in 'n simpatiebrief na lg se dood noem Zerilda haarself ook Pa en tannie se tante. My suster het

die pragtige porseleinteestel gekry wat Zerilda vir my tannie as kind gegee het, en in die meegaande brief

het sy haarself ook 'tante'• genoem

Van Zerilda het ek net geweet haar nooiensvan was Minnaar en dit het my die verkeerde spoor na my pa se

kant laat vat, want aan sy Retiefouma se kant was daar Minnaarvoorouers.

Gister Google ek toe weer en kan nou so min of meer 'n prentjie vorm as my afleidings korrek is. SAG het

niks opgelewer vir Steyn of Minnaar nie, maar Johannes Stefanus Steyn se Geni inskrywings het my 'n

ander spoor laat vat. Ek kan ongelukkig nie die volledige profiel onttrek nie. As my afleidings korrek is,

dan is sy my ouma se Van Heerden niggie en is beide die kleindogters van Roelof Petrus van Heerden en

Elsie Helena Pienaar.

Dit wil vir my as 'n raaiskoot voorkom of Zerilda Steyn gebore is uit die tweede huwelik van Willem

Johannes MINNAAR (SAG b5c1d9e4f7g3) * 8.9.1850 x Graaff-Reinet 8.8.1889 Hendrina Petronella VAN

HEERDEN, wed van Jacobus Burger.

Zerilda is gebore Graaff-Reinet 14.3.1892 en oorlede 21.12.1963 getroud met Hendrik Petrus Marthinus

STEYN (die predikant in diens van die Bybelgenootskap wat die bekendstelling van die eerste Afrikaanse

Bybel in 1933 hanteer het)

Zerilda Steyn was 'n maatskaplike werker en filantroop in die Kaap. Haar dogter, Zerilda Droskie, en

kleindogter Zerilda Nel (in die 80's) het ook in die beroep gedien. Ek het destyds, na ek die twee Zerildas

beluister het op Bejaardesorg konferensies, vir my tannie gesê die twee jonger Zerilda's dra die Van

Heerden heupe

Ek sal bly wees as daar hulp kan kom om die volledige Minnaar-van Heerden profiel saam te stel. Dan kan

ek vir my suster (en haar nasate) 'n gelamineerde genealogiese beskrywing maak om by die kosbare teestel

in haar vertoonkas te plaas saam met Zerilda se brief aan my tannie kleintyd.

Dankie byvoorbaat

Martie

Martie du Toit

Bellville

021 945 3356 / 0835970165









1 FW: MOOC SK's by FamilySearch by "Annelie Els" engelkind2000

2a Alberts by "Frik Venter." hexrivier1234

3 [Press] The Mercury Wednesday 30 Dec 2015 by "Aletta Magrieta Quebbemann" alettaqea9fac

4 Net om genealogiese herkoms te bevoeter by "Johann Hanekom" johann.hanekom

5a Re: Wes Kaap Argief se ure by pieter_j_venter

5b Re: Wes Kaap Argief se ure by "Eddie Otte" otte.eddie

5c Re: Wes Kaap Argief se ure by "Nicky Lategan" nickylate

6 Re Ons Stammoeders (Agatha Blom se mtDNA) by "Jaco Strauss" jacostrauss

7 [Press] The Mercury Donderdag 31 Dec 2015 by "Aletta Magrieta Quebbemann" alettaqea9fac

8 [Press] The Mercury Thursday 31 Dec 2015 CREDITORS ...... by "Aletta Magrieta Quebbemann"

alettaqea9fac

Messages

1 FW: MOOC SK's by FamilySearch



Hallo Mede Lyslede,

Vir die van julle wat ook die MOOC SK‟s se „resep‟ soek….

Groetnis.

Annelie.

Pretoria.

From: Annelie Els [mailto:[email protected]]


To: 'Ferdie van Wyk'

Subject: MOOC SK's by FamilySearch

Hallo Ferdie,

Dis ongelukkig nie `n maklike resep nie…. Mens moet maar soek.

Eers moet jy die verwysing van die boedel op NAAIRS kry….

<http://www.national.archsrch.gov.za/sm300cv/smws/sm30ddf0?20151230111935420F2263&DN=000001

56> MOOC


56> 6/9/1


56> 129


56> VAN WYK, JOHANNA ELIZABETH. DEATH NOTICE.


56> 1834


56> 1834

Dan gaan mens na die skakel toe

https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/331262?availability=Family%20History%20Library

Scroll af totdat jy die D.N. verwysings kry en hier lê die soektog…

D.N. 1-1999 1834-1836 Family History Library International Film 1281531

Kliek op the kameratjie en die volledige filmrol gaan op die webwerf oopmaak…

MOOC 6/9/1-129 is by image 148 & 149 wat jy dan kan download.

Skree maar as daar nog iets is.

Groetnis.

Annelie.

<https://familysearch.org/films/lookup/product/view/?id=1&film=1281531>

cid:[email protected]

From: Ferdie van Wyk [mailto:[email protected]]


To: 'Annelie Els'


Môre Annelie,

Wil jy nie asb vir my ook daardie resep stuur nie asb?

Groete,

Ferdie

2a Alberts



Inligting vir die wat belangstelling hierby het.

EUGENE is 30/12/2015 oorlede in Vereeniging Hospitaal. Verassings diens.

Eugene Alberts

gebore 27 Julie 1939

oorlede 30 Desember 2015 76j-05m-05d

getroud met Susanna Johanna Rautenbach

gebore 5 Maart 1943

Seën groete

Frik.



Postma Familie

Buytendag Familie



3 [Press] The Mercury Wednesday 30 Dec 2015



Dag vriende,

QUICKQUIP:- " Some national parks have long waiting lists for camping

reservations. When you have to wait a year to sleep next to a tree,

something is wrong." " - George CARLIN.

BIRTHS:- FERNANDES Andrew & Julia a son Kai Daniel * 6 Dec 2015 . Brother to

Luke.

DEATHS:- BARTELS Erwin Hermann 1945 ---25 Dec 2015. Brother to Edla .Father

of Amanda, Charmaine, Barbara and Michael. Grandfather of Courtney, Ethan

and Warrick. Great-grandfather of Mila-Grace.

BISNATH Vinesh (Vinny). Son of + Morris & Bhimla BISNATH. Funeral on 30 Dec

2015 at Clare Estate Crematorium Hall from 15:00pm ----16:30pm THEKWENI

Funerals (printing to small for tel No.

BOYERS Richard Ford (Dick) + 25 Dec 2015.

CULLIS Pamela Denise ( Pam ) 27 July 1929 -----28 Dec 2015.Now with Dad.

Mother of Joy and Sue. Grandmother of Jordan. Memorial at Bill Buchanan Home

for the Aged on ground floor patio on 31 Dec 2015 at 10am.

FINE Barry Eldred. Memorial at Highbury Chapel Hillcrest KZN at 10:30 am on

6 Jan 2016.

JONES Gertrude .Funeral on 31 Dec 2015 at St Michael's Catholic Church

Redhill. Viewing at 10am. Service at 10:30am. Cremation private. ISIPINGO

INC PAM'S 031 9022 444.

LOFTUS Erwin Luke. Funeral Service at Christ The King Parish Wentworth on

31 Dec 2015 .Viewing at 09:30am. Service at 10am. Cremation private .

ISIPINGO INC PAM'S 031 9022 444.

MUNSHI Hansraj L of 824 Clare Rd Clare Estate . Funeral today 30 Dec 2015.

Body will lie in state from 1pm ---2:30pm at Clare Estate Crematorium.

NAIDOO Dalliamma of Stella Hill and Rd 715 Montford Chatsworth x + Harry

NAIDOO. Mother of Nirmala, Rani, Manori(Deva),Padmani and + Siva NAIDOO.

Funeral at Vishnu Temple Hall Havenside Chatsworth from 1-3pm on 30 Dec

2015. Proceeding to Mobeni Heights Crematorium for cremation at 4pm.


NORRIS Lorna Kathleen 1940 ----25 Dec 2015 in Los Angeles. She was with

Gregg and his family.

NTSHABA Joseph M + 28 Dec 2015 in car accident between Muden & Weenen. He

was former mayor of Umtshezi Municipality (Estcourt). He was a councillor in

the uThukela District Munisipality. ANA.

RANDALL Dudley + 26 Dec 2015 x Carol. Father of Jon.; Husband father and

brother. Condolences to loved ones from all at Turner Group of Companies. ;

Memorial at St Margaret's Church Durban North at 11am on 4 Jan 2016.

SAMUELS Stephen Benjamin (Benny) + 23 Dec 2015. Will be laid to rest on 31

Dec 2015 at Emmanuel Catholic Cathedral Church. Funeral Service at 08:00am.

Viewing at 0715. Service at 08:00 Proceeding to West Street Cemetery.


SMITH Dennis James 7 June 1936 ----26 Dec 2015 x Maraig. Father to Denise

and Neil, Brother-in-law and uncle. Celebration of his life at Bluff Bowling

Club at 11:30am on 5 Jan 2015

SMITH Membry of Wentwoorth. Funeral on 31 Dec 2015 at Christ The King Parish

Wentworth. Viewing at 11:30am. Service at 12 noon. Cremation private.


SOOBRAMONEY KANNIAH (Nartan) + 26 Dec 2015 x Sandra. Father to Terusha,

Sudasha and Devasha. Grandfather to Tayen. Son of + kanna & Janaki. Brother

to Marsha and + Raj.Funeral at The Clare Estate Crematorium on 30 Dec 2015

.Viewing from 2pm ----3:30pm. Cremation at 4pm.

VENKETSAMY /THOMAS Edmund. Funeral on 30 Dec 2015 at 7 Indore Rd Merebank

from 11am ----12:15pm and then at Peniel International Church Merebank from

12:30----2:30pm. Cremation at Clare Estate Crematorium.

MEMORIAM:- SHATTOCK Tina Kim 4 Dec 1965 ----30 Dec 2014. Miss you from Pete

SHATTOCK.

VAN NIEKERK Dan + 30 Dec 1990. Husband ,father and grandfather of Jeanet,

Danny, Thora, Christine, Maryna and grandchildren.

YOLLAND SAVIO In memory of my darling Stefna and beloved David . Will always

miss you -Janet.

Gegroet uit Durban -weer bewolk, matige hitte and winderig.

Rita Quebbemann.

4 Net om genealogiese herkoms te bevoeter


"Johann Hanekom" johann.hanekom

Was jou voorvaders Belge, of Nederlanders, of andersom? Of hang dit af van

watter kamer in die huis syne was?

Kyk gerus hier...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/30/belgium-and-the-netherlands-exc

hange-land-because-it-makes-sense

http://www.citylab.com/politics/2012/02/most-complicated-border-town-world/1

267/

Johann Hanekom

Lancaster UK

<http://www.hanekom.org.uk/gedview/individual.php?pid=I1967&ged=hanekom.ged>

http://www.hanekom.org.uk/gedview/individual.php?pid=I1967&ged=hanekom.ged

5a Re: Wes Kaap Argief se ure


pieter_j_venter

Dagsê Eddie,

Bietjie meer ingewikkeld.

Dit het my 'n groot gesukkel gekos om die slag te kry.

Gaan na https://familysearch.org/ https://familysearch.org/ en kliek op die boonste taskbar op SEARCH.

Kies CATALOG.

Op die bladsy wat oopmaak is daar 'n venster PLACE.

Tik Cape Province en kliek op SEARCH.

Op die nuwe lys kies: "South Africa, Cape Province - Probate records ( 22 )"

Op die volgende lys kies : Probate records, 1834-1989 https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/331262

Author:Cape Province (South Africa). Master of the High Court.

Gaan af op die bladsy - daar is 'n laaaaang lys.

Langs die items is prentjies van 'n kamera en 'n filmrol.

Kliek op die Kamera om by die SK's uit te kom.

Wat jy gaan benodig is die SK se "Reference" nommer en datum.

Jy kan dit op 2 plekke kry:

1. By NAAIRS - http://www.national.archsrch.gov.za/sm300cv/smws/sm300dl

http://www.national.archsrch.gov.za/sm300cv/smws/sm300dl

2. In die Indekse op die laaste lys wat jy oopgemaak het.

Die maklikste en vinnigste is NAAIRS.

VOORBEELD: (die eerste DN item op die lys)

D.N. 1-1999 1834-1836

D.N. DEATH NOTICE.

1-1999 Reference nommer

1834 - 1836 Jaarspan.

As jy nie regkom nie - vra gerus weer.

Ooskaap groete

Pieter Venter

Kortpad na die Kaapse SK's :



5b Re: Wes Kaap Argief se ure



Piet,

Jy is dierbaar.

Ek gaan nou ook self probeer.

Eddie





Dagsê Eddie,



Gaan na https://familysearch.org/ en kliek op die boonste taskbar op SEARCH.

Kies CATALOG.



Op die nuwe lys kies: "South Africa, Cape Province - Probate records

<https://familysearch.org/solr/catalog/results/search?query=%2Bsubject_id%3A335001%20> ( 22 )"

Op die volgende lys kies : Probate records, 1834-1989 <https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/331262>

Author:Cape Province (South Africa). Master of the High Court.










D.N. 1-1999 1834-1836

D.N. DEATH NOTICE.


1834 - 1836 Jaarspan.


Ooskaap groete

Pieter Venter



5c Re: Wes Kaap Argief se ure



Goeiste, dis „n nuwe wêreld; baie dankie aan jou en Annelie.

Werk dit ook met MOK folders?

Indien wel, hoe kom ek hier uit:

DEPOT KAB SOURCE MOK

TYPE LEER

VOLUME_NO 1/1/1067

SYSTEM 01

REFERENCE 2611

PART 1

DESCRIPTION LATEGAN, PIETER JOHANNES DANIEL. ESTATE PAPERS.

STARTING 19420000

ENDING 19420000

Groete

Nicky


Sent: Thursday, 31 December, 2015 12:23 AM



Dagsê Eddie,



Gaan na https://familysearch.org/ en kliek op die boonste taskbar op SEARCH.

Kies CATALOG.



Op die nuwe lys kies: "South Africa, Cape Province - Probate records ( 22 )"

Op die volgende lys kies : Probate records, 1834-1989 Author:Cape Province (South Africa). Master of the

High Court.










D.N. 1-1999 1834-1836

D.N. DEATH NOTICE.


1834 - 1836 Jaarspan.


Ooskaap groete

Pieter Venter



6 Re Ons Stammoeders (Agatha Blom se mtDNA)



Naand Sasa en Ockert

Ek kon intussen bevestig dat die Agatha BLOM wat hier ter sprake is deur

Corney KELLER bygevoeg is as die dogter van Pieter Barends Blom en Maria

Jacobs en dus NIE die dogter van Barent Pieterse Blom en Catharina de Beer

(van Mauritius) nie.

Die rede vir my soektog was juis 'n ondersoek na die herkoms van julle

mtDNS en dink ek het dalk die nodige deurbraak gemaak gekry.Die een profiel

het 'n Victorene VERSTER X VERSTER gehad en geni het baie gehelp om dit 'n

paar geslagte teruggevoer te kry vanaf daardie egpaar

Violet Victorine Christine (René) VERSTER X Petrus Jacobus Johannes (Koos)

VERSTER

http://www.geni.com/people/Violet-Victorine-Christine-Ren%C3%A9/6000000034421444154

Die DU TOIT Boek het ook baie gehelp aangesien dit die volledige stawende

info gehad het vanaf CJH SCHOONRAAD tot by MJ LE ROUX. Die pad soos wat ek

dit tans het is na Francois MARTINET en as volg:

Violet Victorine Christine (René) VERSTER (1923-1994), die dogter van

Violet Agnes O'CONNOR (1901-1953) d/v

Christina Jacoba Hendrina SCHOONRAAD (c 1880 - 18 Februarie 1934) d / v

Maria Cornelia DU TOIT d / v

Maria Cornelia VAN DER MERWE d / v

Magdalena Johanna LE ROUX d / v

Susanna ERASMUS d / v

Susanna JACOBS d / v [en SUSTER van Maria JACOS, moeder van Agatha BLOM)

Louisa CORDIER d / v

Francoise MARTINET

http://www.ballfamilyrecords.co.uk/dutoit/I054.html

http://www.geni.com/people/Francoise-Martinet/6000000004876996925?through=6000000003169382115

Ek het die afdeling met julle profiele nou as volg:ingedeel.


Kontak my gerus om dit verder te bespreek

Groete


Mon Dec 28, 2015 7:13 am (PST) . Posted by: "Ockert Malan"

Beste Jaco,






neem aan dat dit Agatha Blom b1 is - want daar was ook onder die c's 'n

Agatha Blom)




Met groete,

Sasa Malan

7 [Press] The Mercury Donderdag 31 Dec 2015



Dag vriende,

QUICKQUIP:-" I figured something out. The future is unpredictable. " -

American author John GREEN.

DEATHS:- NEW YORK:- al-MOUADAN Charaffe was killed on 24 Dec 2015. He was a

Syrian-based Isis member. He was 27 years old. He was called "Souley-mane".

Another was killed in an airstrike was Abdul Qader HAKIM.

GORDON Brian + 28 Dec 2015. Good friend of Roy SMITH.

MOONSAMY Ronnie .Body was found on 29 Dec 2015 after he went missing. He was

65. He went to pay casual workers to cut grass at the Belfrost School. He

was a friend and father and a bussiness man. Father of Jennifer MOONSAMY

STEELE.- Kamini PADAYACHEE.

RANDALL Dudley Desmond. Memorial at St Margaret's Church Durban North on 4

Jan 2015 at 11am.

SHELLY MICHAEL FRANK 29 Aug 1941 ---27 Dec 2015. Memorial for Frank will be

OAKLEIGH Chapel Prestbury Pietermaritzburg on 5 Jan 2015 at 11am. OAKLEIGH

033 3426116.

MEMORIAM:- BARKER Craig. 2 years gone now. We miss you Craig. From Mom, Dad,

Brett, Gran and Dee.

Gegroet uit Durban , skoon oop lug en winderig en warm goeie swem weer vir

nou.

Rita Quebbemann

8 [Press] The Mercury Thursday 31 Dec 2015 CREDITORS ......



Dag vriende,

CREDITORS/ DEBTORS:-

CALLAWAY Patricia ID 330719 0069 08 4 + 13 Aug 2015 of 295 Hilltop Rd,

Shelley Beach. ESTATE No 15902/2015. FNB FIDUCIARY (PTY) LTD PO Box 212

Westville. 4320 Shanaz SING TEL:- +27 87 730 2561.

DLAMINI Mbongeni Cosmas ID 741027 5288 08 6 + 19 April 2015 of 2 Carls

Place, Seaview, Durban x in community of property to Pretty Lungile DLAMINI

ID 740905 0989 08 2. ESTATE No 15853/2015. FNB FIDUCIARY (PTY) LTD PO Box

212 Westville. 4320 Shanaz SING TEL:- +27 87 730 2561.

LUTCHMAN Sewnarian ID 400605 5157 08 8 + 24 Dec 2000 of 46 Kingside Place,

Caneside, Phoenix Durban 4080 x Devanayagi LUTCHMAN ID 491005 0120 08 4.

ESTATE No 14430/2015. ATTORNEYS GILLIAN A OLSON PO Box 603 Bromhof Randburg,

Gauteng 2154.

SEETHAL Vivian Bennedict ID 460714 5091 08 6 + 24 July 2015 of 12 Eltham

Place Mavern Durban x in community of property to Elaine Audrey SEETHAL ID

500422 0114 08 3 . ESTATE No 15933/2015. . FNB FIDUCIARY (PTY) LTD PO Box

212 Westville. 4320 Shanaz SING TEL:- +27 87 730 2561.

VINDEN Vera Eugene ID 400615 0078 08 0 + 1 Nov 2015 of 50 Victor Rd,

Redhill, Durban. ESTATE No 15937/2015. . FNB FIDUCIARY (PTY) LTD PO Box 212

Westville. 4320 Shanaz SING TEL:- +27 87 730 2561.

WINDRIM Beryl Catherine ID 240207 0022 08 8 + 17 Oct 2015 of 32 Caister

Lodge, 264 Musgrave Rd, Durban. ESTATE No 15938/2015. FNB FIDUCIARY (PTY)

LTD PO Box 212 Westville. 4320 Shanaz SING TEL:- +27 87 730 2561.

YIMBA Mark ID 520414 5227 08 1 + 8 March 2015 of Eyenthi Reserve, Mtunzini,

KZN x Goodness Phethethile YIMBA ID 540528 0713 08 8. ESTATE No 8250/2015.

ATTORNEYS THORRINGTON-SMITH & SILVER PO Box 2773, Durban 4000.

FIRST /FINAL:-

AITKEN Sylvia Evelyn ID 210903 0014 08 5 + 8 Dec 2014 of Le Domaine Care

Centre, Accuts Rd, Hillcrest. ESTATE No 031912/2014. ANDREW CHARLES AITKEN &

RICHARD JOHN GEORGE AITKEN 2 Tinderwood Loop, Zimbali & 19 Farrel Rd,

Eshowe 3815. TEL:- 082 9260236/035 4745689.

CARR Brian St Clair ID 441107 5031 08 3 + 14 March 2015 of 175 Seaview Drive

Tinley Manor Beach KwaDakuza x Myrna Lorraine CARR ID /PASSPORT 430912 0107

08 2. ESTATE No none. ANDREW CHARLES AITKEN & RICHARD JOHN GEORGE AITKEN

2 Tinderwood Loop, Zimbali & 19 Farrel Rd, Eshowe 3815. TEL:- 082

9260236/035 4745689.

MCLOUGHLIN Mary Stephanie ID 240413 0017 18 1 + 15 Aug 2015 of 3 Falcon

Crest, Bothas Hill 3660. ESTATE No 6489/2015/PMB. DIANNE PATRICIA McARTHUR

FINANCIAL SERVICES PO Box 848, Gillitts 3603.

MCLOUGHLIN Ian James Reynolds ID 360914 5098 08 8 + 19 Jan 2014 of 44

Broadlands Waterkant Rd, Durban North KZN. ESTATE No 3645/2014. AITKIN

LAMBERT ELSWORTH PO Box 50309 Musgrave 4062. TEL:- 031 2027 601. Email:-

>[email protected] < REF:-hb.

PIENAAR Raymond William ID 520911 5107 08 0 + 15 Jan 2015 of DG27 Rob Roy

Lifestyle Village, Rob Roy Close Botha's Hill KZN. ESTATE No 1262/2015/DBN.

ATTORNEYS THORRINGTON-SMITH & SILVER PO Box 2773, Durban 4000.

POPE Richard Joseph ID 220120 5058 18 5 + 19 Nov 2014 of 2 Avon Crescent,

Durban North, Durban 4051. ESTATE No 3032/2015. FNB FIDUCIARY (PTY) LTD PO

Box 212 Westville. 4320 Shanaz SING TEL:- +27 87 730 2561.

VAN DEN HEEVER Sushara Maria ID 550627 0161 08 7 + 25 Oct 2015 of 24

Carelsen Street, Glencoe. ESTATE No 14741/2015/DBN. MORROW & MORROW

INCORPORATED PO Box 30287, Richards Bay 3900.

Gegroet julle almal vir 2015. Geseende en gesonde 2016 wens ek julle toe uit

Durban

Rita Quebbemann.






2 TAB opsoeke via FamilySearch by "Hendrik at Loogkolk" loogkolk09


4 2016 by "helen muller"

5a Re: Re Ons Stammoeders (Agatha Blom se mtDNA) by "Charlie Els" charlieels

5b Re: Re Ons Stammoeders (Agatha Blom se mtDNA) by "Jaco Strauss" jacostrauss

5c Re: Re Ons Stammoeders (Agatha Blom se mtDNA) by "Charlie Els" charlieels

5d Re: Re Ons Stammoeders (Agatha Blom se mtDNA) by "Jaco Strauss" jacostrauss

5e Re: Re Ons Stammoeders (Agatha Blom se mtDNA) by "Elmien Wood"

6 FTDNA se vakansie afslag geld net tot Middernag by "Jaco Strauss" jacostrauss

7 Kontak met Linda Lombard by "Dennis Pretorius"

8a NUUT: Boedels op famly search by ozfarrells

8b Re: NUUT: Boedels op famly search by "Ferdie van Wyk"

9a Re: Wes Kaap Argief se ure by pieter_j_venter

10 Wes-Gauteng se Desember Nuusbrief by "Ferdie van Wyk"

Messages



"Hester Marx"

Sterfgevalle

POTGIETER, Saartjie. Ons neem afskeid van ons moeder, ouma en oumagrootjie.

Roudiens Woensdag 30 Desember 2015 10:30 by Jeffreysrus, Jeffreysbaai.

(Die Burger Oos-Kaap 29/12/2015) DOVES Humansdorp 042 295 1663

Hester Marx, Loerie

[email protected]

2 TAB opsoeke via FamilySearch



Liewe vriende

Ek wil die onderstaande twee SK's probeer opsoek via FamilySearch.

1. Kan ek asseblief net weer die URL (Skakel) kry vir die TAB opsoeke

2. Dink julle die Sk's van 1968 en 1973 sal al op die net wees?

Met dank

Hendrik LOUW

011 976 4262

082 722 6500

DEPOT TAB

SOURCE MHG

REFERENCE 11403/68

DESCRIPTION KRUGER, PIETER FRANCOIS.

STARTING 1968

ENDING 1968

REMARKS SURVIVING SPOUSE JOHANNA PETRONELLA KRUGER.

DEPOT TAB

SOURCE MHG

REFERENCE 7456/73

DESCRIPTION KRUGER, JOHANNA PETRONELLA. (BORN BADENHORST).

STARTING 1973

ENDING 1973

REMARKS PREDECEASED SPOUSE PIETER FRANCOIS KRUGER



"Hester Marx"

Sterfgevalle

GOUS, Leon. +Maandag 28 Desember 2015. Geliefde eggenoot, vader, oupa, broer. Roudiens

Saterdag 02 Januarie 2016 10:00 NG Kerk Hoogland, Isabellaan 1, Charlo.

(Die Burger O-Kaap 30/12/2015) Marzelle Grobbelaar, First Avenue Funeral Home 041 581 5028

VORSTER, Augustine. Gedenkdiens Saterdag 02 Januarie 2016 11:00 Trinity Baptistekerk,

Kaapweg 41, Port Elizabeth. (Die Burger Oos-Kaap 30/12/2015)

Marzelle Grobbelaar, First Avenue Funeral Home 041 581 5028

Hester Marx, Loerie

[email protected]

4 2016


"helen muller"

Mag dit vir ieder en elke lid 'n Voorspoedige 2016 wees, mag al jul

Verwagtinge en Hoop bewaarheid word.

Groete,

Helena en Piet Muller.

5a Re: Re Ons Stammoeders (Agatha Blom se mtDNA)



Nou maak julle my deurmekaar. Agatha Blom ≈20.11.1695 was tog Pieter Barends Blom ≈29.4.1699 se

suster, albei kinders van Barent Pieterse Blom en Catharina de Beer. Het Pieter Barends Blom en Maria

Jacobs dan ook „n kind gehad genoem Agatha?

Catharina de Beer se Indonesiese (eintlik Tomorese) herkoms is nagevors deur Mansel Upham in sy artikel

“PAI TIMOR - the 'accomodatory' life and times of a 17th century exiled slave family from Timor”

(„Remarkable Writing‟ op FFY ( http://www.e-family.co.za/ffy)) Dit is die “Oosterse oorsprong” waarna

Sasa waarskynlik verwys. My vrou se DNA ontleding het dit ook bevestig. (Catharina de Beer, haar ma en

ouma is my vrou se voormoeders op moeder- (dus mtDNA)-lyn.

Groete,

CHARLIE



To: sagenealogie

Cc: Sasa Malan; Ockert Malan

Subject: [SA-Gen] Re Ons Stammoeders (Agatha Blom se mtDNA)


Ek kon intussen bevestig dat die Agatha BLOM wat hier ter sprake is deur Corney KELLER bygevoeg is

as die dogter van Pieter Barends Blom en Maria Jacobs en dus NIE die dogter van Barent Pieterse Blom en

Catharina de Beer (van Mauritius) nie.

Die rede vir my soektog was juis 'n ondersoek na die herkoms van julle mtDNS en dink ek het dalk die

nodige deurbraak gemaak gekry.Die een profiel het 'n Victorene VERSTER X VERSTER gehad en geni

het baie gehelp om dit 'n paar geslagte teruggevoer te kry vanaf daardie egpaar

Violet Victorine Christine (René) VERSTER X Petrus Jacobus Johannes (Koos) VERSTER


Die DU TOIT Boek het ook baie gehelp aangesien dit die volledige stawende info gehad het vanaf CJH

SCHOONRAAD tot by MJ LE ROUX. Die pad soos wat ek dit tans het is na Francois MARTINET en as

volg:










Francoise MARTINET






Groete



Beste Jaco,







Agatha Blom)




Met groete,

Sasa Malan

5b Re: Re Ons Stammoeders (Agatha Blom se mtDNA)



Ja inderdaad Charlie

Volgens Corney Keller is hierdie Agatha BLOM die dogter van Pieter Barends

BLOM en Maria JACOBS. 'n Direkte lyn nasaat se mtDNA bevestig ook 'n

gemeenskaplike voorouer met 'n nasaat van Maria se suster Susanna JACOBS.

Hul direkte lyn mtDNA voormoeder was natuurlik Francoise MARTINET.

Sien gerus: https://www.familytreedna.com/public/CapeDutch?iframe=mtresults

Voorspoedige Nuwejaar

Jaco

2015-12-31 13:09 GMT+02:00 Charlie Els <[email protected]>:

> Nou maak julle my deurmekaar. Agatha Blom ≈20.11.1695 was tog Pieter

> Barends Blom ≈29.4.1699 se suster, albei kinders van Barent Pieterse Blom

> en Catharina de Beer. Het Pieter Barends Blom en Maria Jacobs dan ook „n

> kind gehad genoem Agatha?

>

> Catharina de Beer se Indonesiese (eintlik Tomorese) herkoms is nagevors

> deur Mansel Upham in sy artikel “PAI TIMOR - the 'accomodatory' life and

> times of a 17th century exiled slave family from Timor” („Remarkable

> Writing‟ op FFY ( http://www.e-family.co.za/ffy)) Dit is die “Oosterse

> oorsprong” waarna Sasa waarskynlik verwys. My vrou se DNA ontleding het dit

> ook bevestig. (Catharina de Beer, haar ma en ouma is my vrou se voormoeders

> op moeder- (dus mtDNA)-lyn.

>

> Groete,

> CHARLIE

>

>


> *Sent:* Thursday, December 31, 2015 12:30 AM

> *To:* sagenealogie

> *Cc:* Sasa Malan; Ockert Malan

> *Subject:* [SA-Gen] Re Ons Stammoeders (Agatha Blom se mtDNA)

>

> Naand Sasa en Ockert

>

> Ek kon intussen bevestig dat die Agatha BLOM wat hier ter sprake is deur

> Corney KELLER bygevoeg is as die dogter van Pieter Barends Blom en Maria

> Jacobs en dus NIE die dogter van Barent Pieterse Blom en Catharina de Beer

> (van Mauritius) nie.

>

> Die rede vir my soektog was juis 'n ondersoek na die herkoms van julle

> mtDNS en dink ek het dalk die nodige deurbraak gemaak gekry.Die een profiel

> het 'n Victorene VERSTER X VERSTER gehad en geni het baie gehelp om dit 'n

> paar geslagte teruggevoer te kry vanaf daardie egpaar

>

> Violet Victorine Christine (René) VERSTER X Petrus Jacobus Johannes (Koos)

> VERSTER

>

> http://www.geni.com/people/Violet-Victorine-Christine-Ren%C3%A9/6000000034421444154

>

> Die DU TOIT Boek het ook baie gehelp aangesien dit die volledige stawende

> info gehad het vanaf CJH SCHOONRAAD tot by MJ LE ROUX. Die pad soos wat ek

> dit tans het is na Francois MARTINET en as volg:

>

> Violet Victorine Christine (René) VERSTER (1923-1994), die dogter van

>

> Violet Agnes O'CONNOR (1901-1953) d/v

>

> Christina Jacoba Hendrina SCHOONRAAD (c 1880 - 18 Februarie 1934) d / v

>

> Maria Cornelia DU TOIT d / v

>

> Maria Cornelia VAN DER MERWE d / v

>

> Magdalena Johanna LE ROUX d / v

>

> Susanna ERASMUS d / v

>

> Susanna JACOBS d / v [en SUSTER van Maria JACOS, moeder van Agatha BLOM)

>

> Louisa CORDIER d / v

>

> Francoise MARTINET

>

> http://www.ballfamilyrecords.co.uk/dutoit/I054.html

>

> http://www.geni.com/people/Francoise-

Martinet/6000000004876996925?through=6000000003169382115

>

> Ek het die afdeling met julle profiele nou as volg:ingedeel.

>

> https://www.familytreedna.com/public/CapeDutch?iframe=mtresults

>

> Kontak my gerus om dit verder te bespreek

>

> Groete

>

>

> 3a Ons Stammoeders se herkoms

> Mon Dec 28, 2015 7:13 am (PST) . Posted by: "Ockert Malan"

>

> Beste Jaco,

>

> Met verwysing na jou boodskap op SA-GEN:

>

> Kan jy my 'n bietjie help asseblief? Dit gaan oor die onderstaande hofie

> wat gevolg word deur vier families.

>

> *Haplogroup U5b2b3a (mtDNA) [South Africa; Agatha Blom]*

>

> Beteken dit dat hierdie vier families almal van Agatha Blom afstam? (Ek

> neem aan dat dit Agatha Blom b1 is - want daar was ook onder die c's 'n

> Agatha Blom)

>

> En wat beteken die "South Africa" by Agatha Blom?

>

> Ek stel belang omdat die vermoede ernstig geopper is dat Agatha Blom se ma

> Catharina van oosterse oorspring was.

>

> Met groete,

> Sasa Malan

Jaco Strauss

*Kaapstad*

5c Re: Re Ons Stammoeders (Agatha Blom se mtDNA)



Middag Jaco,

Dit antwoord nog nie my vraag nie. Ek het ongelukkig nie julle voorgaande gesprek gevolg nie. Ek lei af

“hierdie Agatha BLOM” na wie jy verwys is dus „n ander (c-geslag) Agatha as Agatha Blom b1 ?

Om jou ander vraag te antwoord, ek weet nie of my vrou, Wilma, se FTDNA-besonderhede al op die

Kaaps-Hollandse Projek is nie; ek sal moet gaan kyk. Myne is wel. Ek weet ook nie of hare veel gaan bydra

daar nie. Ek het uit die aard van die saak geen YDNA vir haar nie, wat in elk geval van Ierse oorsprong sal

wees (as ek haar neef sin sou laat toets). Haar beste mtDNA “Matches” is Indonesies. Martina Louw het

haar wel op Mitosearch geplaas.

Groete,

CHARLIE

From: Jaco Strauss [mailto:[email protected]]


To: Charlie Els

Cc: sagenealogie; Sasa Malan; Ockert Malan; Corney Keller

Subject: Re: [SA-Gen] Re Ons Stammoeders (Agatha Blom se mtDNA)

Ja inderdaad Charlie

Volgens Corney Keller is hierdie Agatha BLOM die dogter van Pieter Barends BLOM en Maria JACOBS.

'n Direkte lyn nasaat se mtDNA bevestig ook 'n gemeenskaplike voorouer met 'n nasaat van Maria se suster

Susanna JACOBS. Hul direkte lyn mtDNA voormoeder was natuurlik Francoise MARTINET.

Sien gerus: https://www.familytreedna.com/public/CapeDutch?iframe=mtresults

Voorspoedige Nuwejaar

Jaco










Groete,

CHARLIE



To: sagenealogie

Cc: Sasa Malan; Ockert Malan

Subject: [SA-Gen] Re Ons Stammoeders (Agatha Blom se mtDNA)


Ek kon intussen bevestig dat die Agatha BLOM wat hier ter sprake is deur Corney KELLER bygevoeg is

as die dogter van Pieter Barends Blom en Maria Jacobs en dus NIE die dogter van Barent Pieterse Blom en

Catharina de Beer (van Mauritius) nie.

Die rede vir my soektog was juis 'n ondersoek na die herkoms van julle mtDNS en dink ek het dalk die

nodige deurbraak gemaak gekry.Die een profiel het 'n Victorene VERSTER X VERSTER gehad en geni

het baie gehelp om dit 'n paar geslagte teruggevoer te kry vanaf daardie egpaar.

Violet Victorine Christine (René) VERSTER X Petrus Jacobus Johannes (Koos) VERSTER


Die DU TOIT Boek het ook baie gehelp aangesien dit die volledige stawende info gehad het vanaf CJH

SCHOONRAAD tot by MJ LE ROUX. Die pad soos wat ek dit tans het is na Francois MARTINET en as

volg:










Francoise MARTINET






Groete



Beste Jaco,







Agatha Blom)




Met groete,

Sasa Malan

Jaco Strauss

Kaapstad

5d Re: Re Ons Stammoeders (Agatha Blom se mtDNA)



Middag Charlie

Op jou eerste vraag rakende Agatha BLOM, is die antwoord "Ja, dit is twee

verskillende persone met die naam Agatha BLOM". Die een is Indonesies in

die direkte moederlyn en die ander een Frans.

Dit sal baie help indien jou vrou by ons Projek aansluit aangesien ons

geruime tyd nie meer net op die Y-DNA fokus nie. Dit was die aanvanklike

idee, maar so baie van ons Y-DNA lede het ook Kaaps-Hollandse mtDNA gedra

dat ons toe maar die Projek daarvoor ook begin aanwend het.

Sien gerus al ons huidige uitslae hier:


Verder kan Wilma sommer aansluit deur bloot hierdie skakel te neem en die

instruksies te volg:

www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?group=CapeDutch&code=X41621

Groete eers

Jaco


> Middag Jaco,

>

> Dit antwoord nognie my vraag nie. Ek het ongelukkig nie julle voorgaande

> gesprek gevolg nie. Ek lei af “hierdie Agatha BLOM” na wie jy verwys is

> dus „n ander (c-geslag) Agatha as Agatha Blom b1 ?

>

> Om jou ander vraag te antwoord, ek weet nie of my vrou, Wilma, se

> FTDNA-besonderhede al op die Kaaps-Hollandse Projek is nie; ek sal moet

> gaan kyk. Myne is wel. Ek weet ook nie of hare veel gaan bydra daar nie. Ek

> het uit die aard van die saak geen YDNA vir haar nie, wat in elk geval van

> Ierse oorsprong sal wees (as ek haar neef sin sou laat toets). Haar beste

> mtDNA “Matches” is Indonesies. Martina Louw het haar wel op Mitosearch

> geplaas.

>

> Groete,

> CHARLIE

>

>

> *From:* Jaco Strauss [mailto:[email protected]]

> *Sent:* Thursday, December 31, 2015 1:16 PM

> *To:* Charlie Els

> *Cc:* sagenealogie; Sasa Malan; Ockert Malan; Corney Keller

> *Subject:* Re: [SA-Gen] Re Ons Stammoeders (Agatha Blom se mtDNA)

>

> Ja inderdaad Charlie

>

> Volgens Corney Keller is hierdie Agatha BLOM die dogter van Pieter

> Barends BLOM en Maria JACOBS. 'n Direkte lyn nasaat se mtDNA bevestig ook

> 'n gemeenskaplike voorouer met 'n nasaat van Maria se suster Susanna

> JACOBS. Hul direkte lyn mtDNA voormoeder was natuurlik Francoise MARTINET.

>

> Sien gerus:


>

> Voorspoedige Nuwejaar

>

> Jaco

>

> 2015-12-31 13:09 GMT+02:00 Charlie Els <[email protected]>:

>

> Nou maak julle my deurmekaar. Agatha Blom ≈20.11.1695 was tog Pieter

> Barends Blom ≈29.4.1699 se suster, albei kinders van Barent Pieterse Blom

> en Catharina de Beer. Het Pieter Barends Blom en Maria Jacobs dan ook „n

> kind gehad genoem Agatha?

>

> Catharina de Beer se Indonesiese (eintlik Tomorese) herkoms is nagevors

> deur Mansel Upham in sy artikel “PAI TIMOR - the 'accomodatory' life and

> times of a 17th century exiled slave family from Timor” („Remarkable

> Writing‟ op FFY ( http://www.e-family.co.za/ffy)) Dit is die “Oosterse

> oorsprong” waarna Sasa waarskynlik verwys. My vrou se DNA ontleding het dit

> ook bevestig. (Catharina de Beer, haar ma en ouma is my vrou se voormoeders

> op moeder- (dus mtDNA)-lyn.

>

> Groete,

> CHARLIE

>


> *Sent:* Thursday, December 31, 2015 12:30 AM

> *To:* sagenealogie

> *Cc:* Sasa Malan; Ockert Malan

> *Subject:* [SA-Gen] Re Ons Stammoeders (Agatha Blom se mtDNA)

>

> Naand Sasa en Ockert

>

> Ek kon intussen bevestig dat die Agatha BLOM wat hier ter sprake is deur

> Corney KELLER bygevoeg is as die dogter van Pieter Barends Blom en Maria

> Jacobs en dus NIE die dogter van Barent Pieterse Blom en Catharina de Beer

> (van Mauritius) nie.

>

> Die rede vir my soektog was juis 'n ondersoek na die herkoms van julle

> mtDNS en dink ek het dalk die nodige deurbraak gemaak gekry.Die een profiel

> het 'n Victorene VERSTER X VERSTER gehad en geni het baie gehelp om dit 'n

> paar geslagte teruggevoer te kry vanaf daardie egpaar.

>

> Violet Victorine Christine (René) VERSTER X Petrus Jacobus Johannes (Koos)

> VERSTER

>

> http://www.geni.com/people/Violet-Victorine-Christine-Ren%C3%A9/6000000034421444154

>

> Die DU TOIT Boek het ook baie gehelp aangesien dit die volledige stawende

> info gehad het vanaf CJH SCHOONRAAD tot by MJ LE ROUX. Die pad soos wat ek

> dit tans het is na Francois MARTINET en as volg:

>

> Violet Victorine Christine (René) VERSTER (1923-1994), die dogter van

>

> Violet Agnes O'CONNOR (1901-1953) d/v

>

> Christina Jacoba Hendrina SCHOONRAAD (c 1880 - 18 Februarie 1934) d / v

>

> Maria Cornelia DU TOIT d / v

>

> Maria Cornelia VAN DER MERWE d / v

>

> Magdalena Johanna LE ROUX d / v

>

> Susanna ERASMUS d / v

>

> Susanna JACOBS d / v [en SUSTER van Maria JACOS, moeder van Agatha BLOM)

>

> Louisa CORDIER d / v

>

> Francoise MARTINET

>

> http://www.ballfamilyrecords.co.uk/dutoit/I054.html

>

> http://www.geni.com/people/Francoise-

Martinet/6000000004876996925?through=6000000003169382115

>

> Ek het die afdeling met julle profiele nou as volg:ingedeel.

>


>

> Kontak my gerus om dit verder te bespreek

>

> Groete

> (Knip)

5e Re: Re Ons Stammoeders (Agatha Blom se mtDNA)


"Elmien Wood"

Hallo Charlie

Dit is wat in die Suid-Afrikaanse Geslagregisters staan:

a Barend Pieters Blom van Wagenau

x 1691 Catharina DE BERO d.v. Louis van Bengale en Catharina van die Kaap

b1 Agatha BLOM = Kaapstad 21 Okt 1695

b2 Pieter Barend BLOM = Paarl 29 Apr 1699

x Maria JACOBS d.v. Daniel JACOBS en Louise CORDIER

c4 Agatha BLOM = 23 Nov 1727

b3 Geertruy BLOM

Die dope word ook gegee, mens kan dit dus maklik naslaan.

Ek het ook vreeslik deurmekaar geraak, want niemand gee die bronne aan nie, maar dit lyk asof b1 en b2c4

altwee Agatha gedoop is.

Hans Heese in Groep sonder Grense gee Catharina as Catharina DE BEER (BARRE) v.d. Kaap d.v. Louis

Barre en Catharina v.d. Kaap, p. 97.

Groete

Elmien



To: [email protected]; 'Jaco Strauss' <[email protected]>

Cc: 'Sasa Malan' <[email protected]>; 'Ockert Malan' <[email protected]>

Subject: RE: [SA-Gen] Re Ons Stammoeders (Agatha Blom se mtDNA)









Groete,

CHARLIE

(Knip)

6 FTDNA se vakansie afslag geld net tot Middernag



Middag lysteraars, mag 2016 'n fantastiese jaar wees.

Die spesiale DNA afslagpryse wat ek so paar weke gelede genoem het, is nog

net vandag beskikbaar. En dan het ek nog addisionele afslagkoepons ook

beskikbaar vir diegene wat wil bestel. Die huidige Projekresultate is hier

te vinde:

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/CapeDutch/default.aspx?section=ycolorized

En die afslagpryse en bestelblad kan hier gesien word:


Onthou dat ek oor addisionele afslagkoeponne ook nog beskik, so laat weet

asb wat julle sou wou bestel en ek gee hulle ook vir die belangstellendes

deur. Dit wissel van so $10-$20 addisionele afslag per toets.

Maar ons moet gou speel, die spesiale aanbiedinge verval middernag CST in

die VSA

Tot later

Jaco

7 Kontak met Linda Lombard


"Dennis Pretorius"

Hall Almal

Ek probeer kontak maak met Linda ivm die 1984 kieserslys transkripsies maar

kry nie antwoord van haar e-pos adres nie - dalk het sy 'n nuwe adres ? - ek

gebruik lindal at ballmail.co.za

Help my asb om kontak met Linda te maak

Groetnis

Dennis Pretorius


Tel - 011-762-8911

Cel - 083-679-8541

Fax - 086-609-8541

8a NUUT: Boedels op famly search


ozfarrells

Hallo almal

Voorspoedige 2016! Ek sien daar was die laaste paar dae skrywes oor die boedels wat nou op familysearch

beskikbaar is. Ek het 'n tyd gelede 'n kort opsomming oor alles en nog wat opgestel vir 'n Facebook groep,

en sluit dit hierby in, so verskoon asseblief die Engels

Cape Marriages: https://familysearch.org/search/image/index?owc=collection%2F1935348%2Fwaypoints

https://familysearch.org/search/image/index?owc=collection%2F1935348%2Fwaypoints Look under the

town given in NAAIRS description, then the volume no and then the reference Cape Estate files, SOURCE

MOOC (1951 and 1952): https://familysearch.org/search/image/index?owc=MX28-

YPX%3A231795701%3Fcc%3D1935348 https://familysearch.org/search/image/index?owc=MX28-

YPX%3A231795701%3Fcc%3D1935348 Cape (KAB) Estate files, SOURCE MOOC (other years):


https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/331262?availability=Family+History+Library

From finding it on NAAIRS, go straight to the link and scroll down to look for the DN number (reference

on NAAIRS). It will be inside a range

Click on the little camera and find the image. There is no reference to the image number anywhere, so

you'll have to jump around a bit until you find the exact image Kimberley Cape (KAB) Estate Files,

SOURCE MOK:




on NAAIRS). It will be inside a range. Click on the little camera and find the image. There is no reference

to the image number anywhere, so you'll have to jump around a bit until you find the exact image

Pretoria/Transvaal (TAB) Estate Files:






Transvaal/Pretoria Estate Files, Depot TAB some of 1957 - 1960

https://familysearch.org/search/image/index#uri=https%3A%2F%2Ffamilysearch.org%2Frecapi%2Fsord%

2Fcollection%2F2144007%2Fwaypoints


2Fcollection%2F2144007%2Fwaypoints Free State (VAB)

Estate files: 1951 - 2006 NOT ON NAAIRS You are given the option to search, but not everything is

indexed yet, so you may want to rather browse through https://familysearch.org/search/collection/1407787

https://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Ffamilysearch.org%2Fsearch%2Fcollection%2F140

7787&h=7AQE8KgsH&s=1 Free State (VAB) Estate files: before 1951 NOT ALL ON NAAIRS




to the image number anywhere, so you'll have to jump around a bit until you find the exact image Natal

(NAB) estate files:


https://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Ffamilysearch.org%2Fsearch%2Fcatalog%2F22946

2%3Favailability%3DFamily%2BHistory%2BLibrary&h=JAQEDQPW-&s=1 Natal (NAB) Wills:


https://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Ffamilysearch.org%2Fsearch%2Fcatalog%2F28540

2%3Favailability%3DFamily%2BHistory%2BLibrary&h=0AQHsj4dn&s=1

Eastern Cape Estate files, not indexed on NAAIRS (but partly indexed on

http://africangenealogy.blogspot.co.za/

http://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fafricangenealogy.blogspot.co.za%2F&h=lAQG-

nbfw&s=1) :





https://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Ffamilysearch.org%2Fsearch%2Fimage%2Findex%

23uri%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Ffamilysearch.org%252Frecapi%252Fsord%252Fcollection%252F203

7006%252Fwaypoints&h=rAQFNBQFz&s=1 Groete

Linda

Melbourne, Australië

8b Re: NUUT: Boedels op famly search


"Ferdie van Wyk"

Goeiemôre Linda,

Baie dankie hiervoor, met jou toestemming sal ek dit graag op die Genza webblad wil plaas.

Dit beteken egter dat nie-lede van die GGSA ook die voordeel sal trek en dan moet ons dalk mooi daaroor

dink. Dit is hoekom ek die lede van die NUK afsonderlik hierby adresseer vir die guru‟s se mening.

Ook vir jou ŉ voorspoedige nuwe jaar. Dit is vir my persoonlik heerlik om te ervaar hoe mededeelsaam ons

lede is.

groete,

Ferdie




Subject: [SA-Gen] NUUT: Boedels op famly search

Hallo almal

Voorspoedige 2016! Ek sien daar was die laaste paar dae skrywes oor die boedels wat nou op familysearch

beskikbaar is. Ek het 'n tyd gelede 'n kort opsomming oor alles en nog wat opgestel vir 'n Facebook groep,

en sluit dit hierby in, so verskoon asseblief die Engels

1. Cape Marriages:

https://familysearch.org/search/image/index?owc=collection%2F1935348%2Fwaypoints Look under the

town given in NAAIRS description, then the volume no and then the reference

2. Cape Estate files, SOURCE MOOC (1951 and 1952):

https://familysearch.org/search/image/index?owc=MX28-YPX%3A231795701%3Fcc%3D1935348

3. Cape (KAB) Estate files, SOURCE MOOC (other years):


<https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/331262?availability=Family+History+Library>


on NAAIRS). It will be inside a range

Click on the little camera and find the image. There is no reference to the image number anywhere, so

you'll have to jump around a bit until you find the exact image

4. Kimberley Cape (KAB) Estate Files, SOURCE MOK: <https://www.facebook.com/notes/south-african-

genealogy/naairs-references-that-may-be-online-other-estates/10153678363892902>






5. Pretoria/Transvaal (TAB) Estate Files:






6. Transvaal/Pretoria Estate Files, Depot TAB some of 1957 - 1960



7. Free State (VAB) Estate files: 1951 - 2006 NOT ON NAAIRS You are given the option to search, but

not everything is indexed yet, so you may want to rather browse through

https://familysearch.org/search/collection/1407787

<https://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Ffamilysearch.org%2Fsearch%2Fcollection%2F14

07787&h=7AQE8KgsH&s=1>

8. Free State (VAB) Estate files: before 1951 NOT ALL ON NAAIRS





9. Natal (NAB) estate files:


<https://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Ffamilysearch.org%2Fsearch%2Fcatalog%2F2294

62%3Favailability%3DFamily%2BHistory%2BLibrary&h=JAQEDQPW-&s=1>

10. Natal (NAB) Wills:


<https://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Ffamilysearch.org%2Fsearch%2Fcatalog%2F2854

02%3Favailability%3DFamily%2BHistory%2BLibrary&h=0AQHsj4dn&s=1>

11. Eastern Cape Estate files, not indexed on NAAIRS (but partly indexed on

http://africangenealogy.blogspot.co.za/

<http://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fafricangenealogy.blogspot.co.za%2F&h=lAQG-

nbfw&s=1> ) :



Groete

Linda

Melbourne, Australië

9a Re: Wes Kaap Argief se ure


pieter_j_venter

Nicky,

MOK is Kimberley.

Die SK's begin by 1872 en eindig 1937.

https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/25414?availability=Family%20History%20Library.


Groete

Pieter.

10 Wes-Gauteng se Desember Nuusbrief


"Ferdie van Wyk"

Goeiemôre Almal,

Wes-Gauteng se Desember Nuubrief kan nou by hierdie skakel gelees word:

http://www.genza.org.za/index.php/en/newsletter

Ferdie van Wyk


Centurion

jaargang xii maand 12 - sagenealogie · 1g re: re voorouers van jacques de savoye by "jan van...

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