From:"Hughes,Henrietta"<****************************************>Subject:RE:RecordofourtelephonemeetingDate:7February2017at15:55:32GMTTo:MinhAlexander<*****************************************>DearDrAlexanderThankyoufortakingthetimetocometomeetwithmelastweek.Thankyoualsoforyournotes,IagreethatthesereasonablyreflecttheconversationthatwehadRegardingtheotherquestionsandcommentsthatyouhavemade,wewillaimtogetananswertoyouhoweverIdoreceiveafairamountofcorrespondencesoIneedtobefairandmindfultootherswhohaveacallontheofficeKindregardsHenriettaFrom:MinhAlexander[mailto:***********************]Sent:03February201709:15To:Hughes,HenriettaCc:Brown,JerinaSubject:RecordofourtelephonemeetingToDrHenriettaHughesNationalFreedomtoSpeakUpGuardianCareQualityCommission3February2017DearDrHughes,MeetingyesterdayandmattersarisingThankyouformeetingwithme.Asbefore,Ihavepreparedarecordofthemeeting.ItisnotfullyverbatimbutIhopeitcapturesmostofwhatwassaid.Iwouldbegratefulifyouwouldconfirmaccuracy,oradvise

meotherwise.Intermsofspecificactionsarisingfromourmeeting:1)Youkindlyagreedtopublishyournewsletters.MayIaskthatthisincludesbackcopies.

2)Youalsoagreedtopublishthematerialthattrustshavebeensendingyou,forsharingwithotherorganisations,onceyourofficehasitsownwebsite.

3)Isuggestedthatyouinvolvewhistleblowersmoreinyourprocess.

Forexample,thesearesomedocumentsthatyoucouldsharewithwhistleblowersbeforetheyarefinalised:

-The‘template’(protocol)onhowmatterswillbeescalatedtotheNational

Guardian

-ThedraftresearchproposalonlocalGuardians,thatwillbetendered

-Thedraftmodelcompromiseagreementthathasbeenmooted

-Ifyoudodecidetoproduceguidanceonquestionsaboutwhistleblowing

governancetobeaskedbytrusts’localstaffsurveys,thedraftofsuchadocument

Iwouldbegratefulifyoucouldletmeknowifyouagreetoinvitecommentfromwhistleblowersonthedraftingoftheseimportantdocuments.

4)Asyouareaware,ittooksometimetocoverjustafewoftheissuesaboutCQC’sfailings.

Thesearetheissuesfromthereportthatwesentyou,thatwerenotdiscussed:

-CQCfailstocentrallytrackintelligencefromEmploymentTribunals,whichis

senttoCQCasaprescribedbodyunderPIDA.CQCshouldbeproactivelylearningfromthepatternsandregularlyreportingonthem.Itdoesnot.

-CQCisnottrackingotherevidencethatwhistleblowersaresufferingdetrimentandrepeatedlyclaimstowhistleblowersthatithasnoremitfor‘employmentdisputes’.InfactreprisalisagovernanceissueandCQCshouldbeactivelyseekinganyreportsofreprisal,asevidencepertinenttotheWellLeddomain.

-CQCrefusestoinvestigateanywhistleblowercaseseventhoughMike

RichardsChiefInspectorpreviouslyclaimedtoparliamentthatCQCwould“investigateeverycase”.CQCrefusestoinvestigateevenwherethereareclustersofwhistleblowingcontacts.

-CQCclaimedthatitheldnocentralinformationonwhistleblowingcontacts

thatithasreceived.Iftrue,thissuggeststhatCQCisnotlearningfromthem,asparliamenthasrecommended.SomedoubtsabouttheaccuracyofCQC’sclaiminfactarise,frominformationthatCQC’schiefofficersgavetoparliamenton6December2016.ThisrevealedthatCQCdidholdsomecentraldata.CQCshouldbeproactivelycentrallytracking,analysing,actinguponandpublishingdataonthewhistleblowingcontactsthatithasreceivedandhowithasrespondedtothem.

IwouldbegratefulifyoucouldclarifywhetheryouhaveanyactionplanonthesespecificaspectsofseriousCQCfailure.Pleasealsoadviseifyouarewillingtodiscusstheseissuesatalaterpoint.

5)Lastly,IwouldbegratefultohearifyouhavesatisfiedyourselfthatyourofficehasprescribedpersonstatusunderthePublicInterestDisclosureAct.

ItwasclaimedbytheformerDeputyNationalGuardianthattheNationalGuardianisnotaprescribedperson.CQClaterdisagreedandassertedthattheNationalGuardianisconstitutedaspartofCQC,andthereforehasCQC’sprescribedpersonfunctions.

Increasinglythough,claimshavebeenmadethatyouareaseparateentityandoperateindependentlyoftheCQC.DavidBehanCQCchiefexecutiveclaimedatarecentCQCboardmeetingthattheCQCboardhasnooversightofwhatyoudo.

Haveyoutakenyourownlegaladviceonwhetheryourofficedefinitelyhasprescribedpersonstatus?

Yourssincerely,DrMinhAlexander

NotesofmeetingbetweenMinhAlexanderandHenriettaHughes2ndFebruary2017,2pm

to3.15pmatCQCoffices,151BuckinghamPalaceRoadSW1

MATorecapagreedagenda:1)YourproposalsforevaluatingstateofNHSwhistleblowinggovernance2)ReportIsentyouonCQC’swhistleblowinggovernancefailings–sharedwithparliamentandreportedbytheTimesearlyDecember2016.Startwithproposalsforevaluation?HHShallItalkabouttheinternalgovernanceoftheoffice?MAIthinkalotofthatwascoveredbyyourrecentreport.CouldwefocusonevaluationofNHSwhistleblowinggovernanceHHI’mclearthatthere’sroomforimprovementintheNHSinmanyparts.Idon’thaveafearaboutstaffraisingconcerns[thinktheywill]You’rereallytalkingaboutSpeakUpGuardians[SUGs]

TwoaspectstoSUGs’role.Reactive:Beingachannel.Staffcancomeandtalktothem.Sometimesit’sjusthavingaconversationwithsomeoneelse.Canraiseissuesinconfidence,oranonymously.DirectlyorviatheSUG.SUGsarejustanadditionalchannel.Lotsofotherplacesstaffcango.Unions,bullyingandharassmentrepsSUGscantalktoanyanyoneintheorganisation,unblockthingsWealsoexpectthem[SUGs]tobeproactiveMakingthemselvesknownDevelopingmarketingmaterialsGetthemselvesaboutGotostaffinductionWe’resupportingthem[About]howtheylinkwithothers–especiallythoseinstaffwellbeingandpatientsafetyrolesWeexpectthemtobecomepartofanetwork–Healthwatch,DignityatWork,WRESSUGscouldbebasedineitherorganisationaldevelopmentorpatientsafety,bridgesbothroles[SUGsshould]lookattrustincident&complaintsdata

ShouldbeabletositinteammeetingsGettoplaceswherestaffaren’tspeakingup[Onmyvisits]it’stellingifstaffdon’trecognisetheirSUGIgetabout.Idon’thaveaminder.Talktostaff.They’reveryhappy[withproposals]SUGsshouldbegettingthemoodoftheirorganisations,feedingbacktoboardIt’snew,challengingImportanttohaverightpeopleinrightroleIt’sfantastictosee[howSUGsareworking]MAHowdoyoutellifit’sfantastic?HHDependshowquestionsareaskedtostaff.Maynotgetmuchresponseifsay“Haveyougotaconcerntoraise?”Ifyouaskwhatgetsinthewayofpatientcare,usuallyalotofanswersMAButhowwillyoutellifit’sworkingfantastically?HHIhaven’tbeeneverywhereyet.Someorganisationshavegottherolemoreestablished,canlearnfromthem.MAButhowwillyoumeasureandprovethatit’sworkingwell?HH1)NumbersofstaffgoingtotheSUGs–that’sameasureofconfidence2)Feedingbackstaffexperience–SUGswillgetstafffeedbackat3monthspostcontact[withSUGs]MAHowareSUGsmeasuringstaffexperience?HHItvaries,Differenttrustsneeddifferentthings

MAWhatarethedifferentwaysinwhichSUGsaremeasuringstaffexperience?HHWorkinginpartnershipatlocallevel.Pulsesurveysaswellastheannualstaffsurvey.MAWhatarethepulsesurveyquestions?HHWehaven’treceivedtheoutputsofthoseyet.MAButwhatquestionsarebeingasked?HHWehaven’taskedspecificallyHHEveryorganisationsendssomethingin.Learningshared.MACanthatsharedmaterialbeputonadigitalnoticeboardforalltosee-thepublicandwhistleblowers?HHWhenwegetourownwebsiteMAWhenwillthatbe?HHDon’tknow,complex,needtomakebestuseoffundsMAThisyear?(2017)HHHopefully.WillbeupsetifnotMAYournewsletter–canthatbepublished?HHCanexpandthedistributionlistMAWhynotpublish,providepermanentrecord?HHDifficult,spaceoncurrentCQCwebsiteMAYou’veonlygotthreereportsupatthemoment

HH[Agreedtopublishthenewslettersoncurrentpartofwebsite]HHWe’recommissioningourownresearchonSUGsWewantittobeexternalandcredible

-Findoutmoreabouttheroles

-Howthey’vebeenestablished

-Numberofcases

MAThatsoundslikeadescriptivepieceofworkonhowtheSUGsweresetup.Anythingoneffectiveness?

HHWe’llbelookingatSUGs’measuresoftheireffectiveness

MAHowwillyoumeasureSUGs’effectiveness?

HHWe’rehavingaconversationwithacademicsaboutthat

MAYouknowthere’snoevidenceforanyofthis(theSUGs)?

HHThat’sthechallenge,buildinganevidencebase

MAYou’readoctor,I’madoctor.Weusuallyinsistdrugsaretestedfirst.

HHI’mdoingworkwithothersectors.Bankingsectorwillhavechampions.

MANHShistoryisthat‘champions’don’tusuallywork

HHShallItellyouabouttheworkwithothersectors?

MAWouldlovetohearaboutthat,perhapsattheendifthere’stime

MADoyouhaveanyideaofwhatSUGsarecostingnationally?

HHNo

MAWhathappenedtoEileenSill’splannedsurveyofSUGs?ThatwassupposedtogooutinSpring2016?

HHDon’tknowaboutthat.Nothinghandedover

HHButfromeventinOctober,someSUGssaidtheywerejusttakinguptheirroles.Wouldhavebeendifficulttogetmeaningfuldata.

Peoplecangetsurveyfatigue

MAUnderstanditwouldhavebeendifficultifmostSUGswerenotinpost

MAYou’veacknowledgedthatSUGsareonlyapartofthesystem.BesidesevaluationthroughSUGs,howelsewillyouevaluatethestateofNHSwhistleblowinggovernance?

HHI’minterestedinhowtrustsarelivinguptotheFrancisprinciples.I’llbediscussingwithGuardianshowtheyarereviewingculturechange.

MAYousayyouwillevaluateculturechangeviaSUGs,buttheyareonlyonepart.Howelsewillyouevaluate?

HHBettertomakechangesfromwithinorganisations

MAButhowelsewillyouevaluate?

HHInformationfromcasereviewsthatwecarryout,whethertheyreflecttheFrancisprinciples

MAButtheywillonlyrepresentaproportionofallcases.Howelsewouldyouevaluate?

HHHoworganisationsarereflectingontheFrancisprinciples,willbepickedupbyCQCinspectionsunderWellLeddomain.We’lldoingitinpartnership.

EveryorganisationthattouchestheNHShasarole,responsibility

MAWhatareyourexpectationsfororganisations’reflectionontheFrancisprinciples?

HHInduction,training,coredevelopment,managerialdevelopment.Likeatapestrywithaseamrunningthroughit

MAHowwillyoutellifthey’rereflectingwell?

HHTooearlytosay.Casereviews[stillbeingdeveloped],noevidencebase,pilotneeded

Weneedtomodelimprovementphilosophy.Comeback,rethinkandreflectonwhichbitshavegonewell

MAWhenwillyoubeinapositiontogivetherestoftheNHSclearexpectationsonwhetherthey’redoingwell?

HH[Notimescale]

HHCantrustsgivemeanaccountofthemselves?WhataretrustsdoingatboardlevelaboutreportsfromSUGs?

MAWhatdoyouexpectthemtobedoingwithreportsfromSUGs?

HHIfthere’samismatchbetweencomplaintsandincidentreports.Understandinghowconfidentstaffreallyare.

MAAnythingelsethatyouplantodotoevaluatewhistleblowinggovernanceintheNHS?

HHSUGnetworkandregionalmeetings.Thereare10regions.Guardiansmeetingquarterlyandlearningfromeachother.

MAMovingtoCQC.OurreportonCQCfailuresinwhistleblowing.Whatdoyouthink?

HHInformationshouldbeintheplacewhereitshouldbedone

MASorry,what’sthatgottodowithCQC?I’maskingaboutveryspecificfailingsthatweevidenced

HHIt’sdifficultifyou’renottheorganisationresponsibleforlocalchange.Approachwrong

MAButyou’vejusttalkedaboutCQCevaluatingorganisations’whistleblowinggovernanceviatheWellLeddomain.Andtheyarefailingonthat.

HHThat’swhytheyarelookingagain

CQCwillhaveaccesstotheSUGsandlearnfromthem

MACQCstaffshouldalreadyknowaboutwhistleblowing.Itshouldbeacorecompetency

CQChashadstatutoryresponsibilitiesforwhistleblowingrightfromthestart.They’refailinganditcan’twaitfortheSUGstotrainCQCinspectors.

HHIseethatasareallypositivething

MATheSUGsaren’ttrained.HowcantheytrainCQC?

CQChashadstatutoryresponsibilitiesfromthestart.It’saprescribedbodyunderPIDA.2009–nowsevenyears.

HHMyroleistolookatthefuture

MAHaveyoureadourreport

HHYes,I’vereadit

Iwanttoencourageandsupportimprovement

MAWhatdoyouunderstandtobethecentralCQCfailuresonwhistleblowing?

HHInspectorsneedinformation,SUGswillprovidethat.

MAWe’redancingaroundtheMaypolehere.Let’sgothroughthespecificfailingsidentifiedinthereportIsentyou.

PoorgeneralCQCmethodologyinassessingwhistleblowinggovernance.

Guidelinesforinspectorsarescant,superficialandinadequate.Whatdoyouthinkaboutthat?

HHIwanttoworkwithCQC,developingguidancetomeettheneedsofeverybody

I’mnotgoingtoperpetuateharmful,negativecultures,blameshifting.

MAAreyousuggestingthatI’mperpetuatingharmful,negativeculture?

HHIwasn’ttalkingaboutyouatall.

Ihaveenormoussympathyforyouandnotjustyou

MAIdon’tneedyoursympathy.Tryingtogetanswerstospecificquestionsaboutevidencethatwehavesentyou

HHHopewhatI’vesaidisnotgoingtobetakenthewrongway

MAWhatimprovementsdoyouthinkthereneedintheCQCguidance[toinspectors]?

HHIthinkit’sanunderstandingoftheroleoftheSUGs

MAAnyotherimprovements?

HHInformationfromSUGs,pulsesurveys,boardreports,aretheSUGsgettingtherightsortofresponse?

MA:CQC’sfailuretoregulateuseofgagsincompromiseagreements.CQCclaimedtomethattheywouldinspectcompromiseagreementsifnecessary.IreviewedrecentCQC

inspectionreportsontrusts.TherewasnoevidencewhatsoeverthatCQChadinspectedcompromiseagreements.FromFOIdata,it’scleartomethatgagscontinuetobewidespreadandthatCQChasnotdeterredtheiruse.Whatimprovementsdoyouthinkareneeded?

HHI’mconcernedaboutanytypeofcompromiseagreementthatpreventsindividualsfromraisingconcerns.

MAWhatimprovementsdoyouthinkareneededinCQC’smethodologyandperformance?

HHIhaven’ttalkedtoCQC.Willworkwithorganisations

MAYou’renotwillingtosay?

HHThere’sarealdesiretohaveabigchangeinthewaythey’re[compromiseagreements]arewritten

MAWhatbigchangehaveNHSIgotinmind?

HHCan’ssayoffthetopofmyhead,withoutgoingintomynotes

MADoyouthinkCQCneedtoimprove

HHCQCalreadylookingatthisinWellLedmethodology

MADoyouthinkCQCshouldroutinelyinspecttrusts’useofcompromiseagreements?

HHI’veneverbeenaCQCinspector

MAIntheory?

HH[noanswertothequestion]

MAIsitaquestionyou’rewillingtoanswer?

HHIdon’tknow,ifshouldbeNHSI,CQC…notalwaysclearwhatorganisationshoulddowhat

MACQCadmittedthatit’stheirjobtoinspectcompromiseagreements.RobertFrancissaysit’stheirjobtoinspectcompromiseagreements

HHButNHSIareinterestedtoo

MAButyoudon’tagreewithRobertFrancisthatCQCshouldinspectcompromiseagreements?

HHI’mnotaninspector,Idon’tknow

I’mmoreinterestedinwhat’sinthem[compromiseagreements]

MAThat’sthepointofCQCinspectingthem

HHWeshouldn’thavetheminthefirstplace

MAThat’swhatinspectorsarefor[todeter]

Howdoyouthinkcompromiseagreementscouldbemadelessintimidating?

HHI’mnotanHRprofessional.Theyshouldn’tinanywaypreventpeoplefromraisingpublicinterestconcerns

Theycanbedraftedbetter-toagoldstandard

MAWouldyouagreethatsuper-gags(confidentialityclauseswhichpreventstafffromevendisclosingthatthecompromiseagreementsexist)shouldbebanned?

HHIthinkthey’reinsidiousbytheirnature

MADoyouthinkcompromiseagreementsshouldmakeitclearerwhatstaffcanwhistleblowabout–defineclearlywhatpublicinterestdisclosuresare?

Atthemoment,theydon’tsaywhatpublicinterestdisclosuresare.

HHIt’snotbeentestedyetinlaw

MAAmbiguityisaproblem.Compromiseagreementscontainintimidatingclauses

preventingdisclosureoftheexistenceoftheagreements,thecontentsoftheagreementsandnon-disparagementclauses.It’scleartostaffthatpatientsafetyisapublicinterestissue.Lessclearareissuesofsuppression,reprisalandcoverups.Coverupsareonthelistofqualifyingdisclosures,butit’shardforstafftoknowiftheycantalkaboutwhathappenedtothem.Iftheydiscloseaboutsuppression,reprisalandcoverup,doesthatbreachnon-disparagementclauses?

HHProblemisthatit’snottestedinlaw.

MAIt’snodifferenttocurrentNHSwhistleblowingpoliciesthatgiveguidanceonwhatsortofthingsformqualifyingdisclosures.Ofcourseeachcaseisultimatelytestedinlaw,butgeneralguidanceshouldbepossible.

HHAgreeshouldbeplainEnglish.

Can’tgivedefinitiveanswer,butit’ssomethingI’minterestedin

Alsochangingpastcompromiseagreementsbymutualconsent.

AlsointerestedinESR.

MAIpresumeyouknowIwrotetoNeilChurchillabouttheproblemsthatgaggedwhistleblowerswillhaveregardingaccesstoNHSEemploymentsupportscheme.Neilkindlylookedintoitandaskedlawyers.Camebackwithapartialsolution–thatwhistleblowersapproachformeremployerstoaskforawaiver.

However,someemployersaresorabidthattheyinsertclausespreventingwhistleblowersfromevencontactingthem.Theystitchituplikeiron.

What’sneededisagovernmentlevelresponse.Thousandsofgaypeoplehavejustbeen‘pardoned’.Shouldbesame[forgaggedwhistleblowers].

Wouldyousupportthisinprinciple?

HHIdon’tknowwhatthatpathwayinvolves

MAButisitsomethingyou’reinterestedin?

HHYes

MAHowmanylawyersarethereinyouroffice?

HHTwo.Notpractising.Onedoctor.

MARegardingESR,peoplegetexcitedaboutthis,butthere’salwaysthephoneinanycase,

HHPeoplearephoningandhavingofftherecordconversations?“Don’temploythisperson”?

MAYes.

Thebiggestobstacleissimplyhavingtosaywhathappenedinyourlastjob.

MANext:PoorresponseratebyCQCtowhistleblowingdisclosures.ThisisafterWinterbourneView-in2011.

CQCwouldn’tgiveusallthedata,thenationaldata,buttheygaveussome.Intheevidencewesentyou,thereisdataonNorthCumbria.IthasbeenthesubjectofthehighestnumberofexternalwhistleblowingdisclosurestoCQCinrecentyears.ButCQChavestuffedmostofthedisclosuresinadrawer–about90%-chalkedthemupasjustinformationnotedforthenextinspection.Evenreallyseriousdisclosures–themanagersarefiddlingfigures,notactingonKeoghrecommendations,bullyingstafftofiddledata.

HHEasiertoactfrominsideorganisations

MAAreyousayingthatCQCdon’tactbecausetheycan’t?

Theyshouldn’tbestickingseriousdisclosuresinadraw.Ifthatmanyseriousdisclosures,shouldtriggerresponsivereview

HHI’mmuchmoreinterestedinwhat’sinsideatrust

Ifstaffhaven’taplacetogo–SUGsgavethemaplacetogo

MA

Alreadyreportsthatthingsaren’tOKwithSUGs

Therewillalwaysneedtobeanexternalplaceforstafftogo

HHWe’retalkingaboutatemplateforescalatingconcernstotheNationalGuardian.

MAWhenwillitbeready?

HHSoon.Willprobablybereadyfornextaccountabilityandliaisoncommittee.

MAWhenisthat?

HHMarch

MACQCneedtoincreaserateofresponsetoseriouswhistleblowerdisclosures

EspeciallyimportantincaseswherethingshavenotworkedoutwitheitherSUGsortheNationalGuardian

CQChavepowersofinvestigationwherethereisevidencethatregulationshavebeenbreached.They’rebeinggettingdisclosuresaboutthatallthetime.

HH[drawingmeetingtoaclose]Isthereonesinglething,asilverbulletthatyouthinkwouldhelp?

MAIt’scomplexbuttwothingsstandout:

1)Totallawreform

2)Afullyindependentbodyforwhistleblowerswithpowerstoinvestigate,remedyandenforce

Irealisethesecondpointrelatestoyourrole.KeithConradiisseekingstatutoryindependenceandmorepowers.Willyoudothesame?HHIthinktheexistingleversinthesystemshouldbeused,morecanbedoneMAIagreethattheexistingleversaren’tusedenough.I’vejustgivenyouanexampleintheformofCQCHowever,lawchangesculture.LawonseatbeltschangedbehaviourWithmurder,wedon’tsay“let’snotblamethem”Ifit’saseriousoffence,youprosecuteHHSeatbeltsareagoodexample.I’veusedit.It’saboutchangingpublicopinion.Makingitunacceptable.It’sgottobeunacceptable.Ifyoustartwithenforcement[won’twork]MAAreyousuggestingenforcementmayfollow?HH[clarifiedthattheenforcementinquestionrelatestothecurrentNGmodel]HHThanksforcomingallthisway.Foundituseful.Perhapsmeetagain.Whatdoyouthinkofwhatwe’redoing?MAThanksforyourtime.Veryuseful.Appreciateitwasn’teasyasaresultofEileenSillsleavingsosoon.Butyouneedtofirmupa

lot.Alsoneedtoinvolvewhistleblowersinyourprocess.Idon’tthinkSUGshaveexpertiseandexperience.Managementwillrunringsaroundthem.ThewrongsortofSUGwilljustcollude.ENDFrom:"Hughes,Henrietta"<****************************>Subject:RE:RecordofourtelephonemeetingDate:26January2017at17:10:12GMTTo:MinhAlexander<************************>DearMinhIthinkthismainlycaptureswhatwassaidalthoughobviouslynotatranscript.IthoughtImightseeyouatWestminsterForumtoday,butIlookforwardtoourmeetingnextweek.KindregardsHenriettaFrom:MinhAlexander[***********************]Sent:23January201721:03To:Hughes,HenriettaSubject:RecordofourtelephonemeetingDearDrHughes,RecordofourtelephonemeetingThanksagainforyourtimeandtheinformation.Asagreed,Itookroughnotesaswespokeandhavenowtranslatedthemintoarecordwhichcoversthegeneralthrustofwhatwediscussed.TheyarenotfullyverbatimthroughoutbutIhopetheycapturethemeaningofwhatwassaid.

Iwouldbegratefulifyouwouldconfirmaccuracyorletmeknowotherwise.Manythanks,MinhAlexanderRecordoftelephonemeetingbetweenMinhAlexanderandHenriettaHughes23January2017,4pmto5.07pmMA&HH-Recapofpurposeoftoday’smeeting–todiscussmattersrelatedtoestablishmentofStakeholderAdvisoryGroup.Othertopicsscheduledformeeting2February.HHDraftproposalaboutcasereviewsandStakeholderAdvisoryGroupwillbepublishedat3weeks(approx.13thFeb)MAWhatdoesreviewmean?HHHowtrustshandlecases,againstprinciplesofFrancis’report,havetruststakentheprinciplesonboard.Ifthey’remet[theprinciples],we’llsayso.Ifnot,we’dhelpthem.MADisputedfacts–howwouldyoudealwiththat?Ifnottestingorverifyingevidence,howvalidareyourconclusions&recommendations?HHLanguageisreallyimportant.Wearenotreviewingcases,wearereviewinghowtrustshandlecases.Lookingattheorganisations.Ifwewereacceptingacase,welookathowatrustishandling[issues].HHTherearepocketsofgoodpractice.Weknowtheyareimproving.MAHowdoyouknowtheyareimproving?HHStaffsurvey.Markersofwhetherstafffeelengaged.MAWhatothersourcesofdatabesidesstaffsurvey?HHLotsofmarkers.Lotsofthings.eg.appraisals

MAWhatdataonappraisalsareyoulookingat?HHStaffsurveyMAYousaidsourceswerestaffsurvey&otherthings–whataretheotherthings?HHUnderdevelopment.DatabeingcollatedbylocalguardiansMAWhatdataarelocalguardianscollatingandhasitbeenagreedwithyouroffice?Isitstandardised?HH“What”hasbeenagreedwithusandisstandardised“How”–no.“How”isverymuchwhatworksfortheorganisation.Solongasinformationheldseparatelyfrommaindatabases.Wehaven’tbeenprescriptive.MAHowdoyouknowdatafromlocalGuardiansisn’tfiddledorflawedinsomeotherway?HHUltimatelyitwillreflectinthestaffsurvey.MAHaveyougotameansofqualitycontroltocheckqualityoflocalguardians’data?HHWe’reworkingontrust….MASonochecks?HHWedon’thaveaccesstotheirinformationsystems.Areyousuggestingwedoso?Isthatappropriate?MAYouhavetheremitforpickinguplocalfailuresincludingbylocalguardians,andSafeguardingagainstlocalfailure.HHWehaven’treceivedanyinformationaboutproblemswithlocalguardians.MAYouhavereceivednoconcernsaboutlocalguardians’inappropriateactionsoromissions?HHWedidhaveone.Notfromamemberofstaff.Wewerecopiedintosomething.I’mnot

sure.Theindividualdidn’tmeettheneedsofthestaff.MAWhatactiondidyoutakeinresponse?HHWe’veflaggedtothetrust.We’refollowingup.MAYou’vereceivednootherconcernsaboutlocalguardian’sactionsoromissions?HHNoMAIntermsofpracticalities,doyouseeallcorrespondencethat’saddressedtoyoupersonallybywhistleblowerswhohaveconcerns?HH[afterclarification]Yes.Sometimescan’trespondtosomethingsswiftly,duetocapacityissues.MAButyouwillseeallthecorrespondenceinduecourse,ifit’saddressedtoyou?HHYesHHInterestedinyourquestion-reauditandspotcheck.TheinformationgoesinBoardreports.MAButboardslie.HHIt’sfortheboardstoensure[goodpractice].MAThat’swhatgovernmentshavebeensayingforyears–we’vesettherulesandit’suptotruststofollowthem.That’showwhistleblowersgetharmed.Sometrustshaveappointedseniormanagers,evenboardmembers,aslocalGuardians,notinthespirit.Incorrupttruststheylietheirheadsoff.HH[WillconsiderhowtheremightbeexternalscrutinyoflocalGuardians’data].Issuesaboutconfidentiality.I’dbeconcernedifitwasme.MANodifferenttoCQCcheckingonproviders’activities.MAGoingbacktocasereview.Awhistleblowertellsyouthingsaren’tworkingandyou

review.Canyouwalkmethroughyourprocess?HHStillconsulting.IfIsaid[whattheprocessis]now,you’dsaywhat’sthepointofconsultation?Noprocessyet.Noinclusion/exclusioncriteriaMAButyoumusthavesomeidea?HHItwillbeaformativeprocess.Alearningprocess.Francisdidn’tsayinhisreportwhatreviewwas.MAWhatwouldmakeyouthinkthingshadn’tbeenhandledwell?HHLotsofthings.Hasthetrustcreatedanenvironment,hasthewhistleblowernotbeenlistenedto?MA[Returningtodisputedfacts]Doyouaccepttrustslie?(X2)It’safundamentalissue.HH[Noresponsetothequestionabouttrustslying]Wewillbelookingatevidence.MAWhatevidence?HHCan’tsayyet[asconsultationstillongoing]MADavidDrewsuggestedthatyou’veacceptedtwocases.Areyouacceptingcasesyet?HHPeoplearesendinguscases.MAButareyouacceptingthematthispoint?HHWecan’tacceptanything.Noinclusion/exclusioncriteriaetc…MADavidDrewsaidaprecedenthadbeensetregardingacitizenwhistleblower.Areyounowacceptingcitizenwhistleblowers’cases?HH[afterclarificationofthemeaningoftheterm‘citizenwhistleblowers’,withreferencetoHealthwatchEngland’susage]–Complaintsbythirdpartyarecompletelyseparate.

Referralsfromthirdpartiesotherthanlocalguardianstobeconsidered.Wouldlikeabroadrangeofreferrers.MABacktocasereview.Canweapproachitfromaprocessofexclusion.Ifreviewisnotinvestigation,whatdoyouthinkdefines“investigation”?HHYougobackInterviewallthepeopleinvolvedWorktoTermsofReferenceUseanestablishedinvestigationprocessFishtailanalysisetc…It[review]won’tbeacomprehensiveinvestigationprocessWe’llreviewagainstthe[FreedomtoSpeakUp]principlesMAHowwillyoumeasureifFrancis’principlesarebeingfollowed?HHWe’renotatthatstageyetMAYousayFrancisdidn’tspecifywhat‘review’wasinhisreport.Hashespecifiedittoyousince?HHWehaven’ttalkedaboutitingreatdetailMACompositionoftheStakeholderAdvisoryGroup(SAG)–doyouhaveanyviewsyet?HH[Needtoengageasmanywhistleblowersaspossible]Somecan’tcometoapublicmeeting.MAThat’swhywesaidyoushouldadvertise,butIdidn’tseeanadvert.HHYouwereveryeffective,lotsofpeoplecontactedus.Keentogetyourinputetc…MAHappytocontribute.ButIamonlyonesource.Youneedtocontactpeoplewhodon’tknowme,needsopenadverts.MABallparkresizeofSAG?

HH[Commentsredifficultieswithselectionandsomepeoplefeelingexcluded]MAWhenwillyouhavedecidedabouttheSAG?HHBy20FebMAChairmanshipofSAG?HHWon’tbeanexternalchair.We’vealreadygottheAccountability&LiaisonCommitteeMASomeonefromyourteam?HHWillprobablybemeMAWho’sinyourteam?HH2Nationalengagementmanagers,acasereviewmanager,strategymanager,comms,senioradministratorMALorraine[Turnell]isoneofyournationalengagementmanagers–who’stheother?HHWhatwillyoudowiththeinformation,whydoyouwanttoknow?MAInterestedinbackground,experienceetc…AnyinformationyougivemeIwillsharewithotherwhistleblowersHHTeamhaveallbeenthroughatotallyopen&transparentappointmentprocesswhichcoversskills,background,attitude,experience.Individualscomingtodoagreatjob.Howthey[fulfilroles]isanissueforme.Youcanhaveagoatmeandyoudo.MAIdidn’tthinkitwasasecret.Heardallyourstaffwereattheevent.HH[Confirmedteamwereattheevent]

MAWho’sontheAccountability&LiaisonCommittee?HHChairedbyRF.AlsoMoiraGibbNHSEnglandNED,HelenBuckinghamNHSI.We’resmall.MAAwareofresourceissues.Willyoubeseekingmoreresources?HHLookingtogetmorestaff.MAMoremoney?HHNo.Wouldnotsitwellwithpressuresonstaffdeliveringservices.MAWhat’syourbudgetHHI’vegottocomeinunderamillion.Ithinkthat’salot.Athirdcomesfromeachsponsoringorganisation.MAHowmanymorestaffareyoulookingfor?HHNodefiniteplanyetMAHastheAccountability&LiaisonCommitteemetyet?HHOnceMASoyouhaveapolicyonhowthecommitteeworks?HHMoUhasbeensentout,notyetsignedoff,willbepublishedoncesigned.MAYourrecentreportsaysyouwillbereportingtoparliament?HHYes,viaPhillipDunne.AlsokeepHealthCommitteeupdated.MAReportingdirectlyHC?AppearbeforeHC?HHIfrequested.Notformal,routinereportingMAIssueofindependence?

HHIfyouarepaidforbygovernmentit’sreallydifficulttosayyou’reindependent–weareasindependentaswecanbe.IfeelindependentMACQCbangsonaboutyoubeingoperationallyindependent.Whatdoesthatmean?HHEverything.Differentinformationsystem.MeetingswithDavidBehan.That’snotaboutbeingdependent,notobjective-setting,butbeingaccountable[aboutwhat’shappening].MAHowoftenarethemeetings?HHVariesMAHowmanytimessinceyoustarted?HH5times(withoutcheckingdiary)MAWhatgetsdiscussed?HHLotsofthings.I’mnotbeingtoldwhattodo–notobjectivesetting–beingaccountable.Iknowit’sdifficulttobebelievedgiventeam’slocation,whereourofficeis.MASharedfunctionswithCQC,backroomfunctions?HHToilets.MeetingroomsWebuyservices–HR,whenwe’rerecruiting,ifourITbreaksdown…Wepayrent.Noticedthetime,andit’snotbecauseofthequestionyou’vejustasked.Continueatnextmeeting.

MA[Thanksforthetime]AboutthegrouplettersentbyBrianJarman..whenareyoulikelytoreply?HH[acknowledgedshehadindicatedresponseearlythisweek]...Ifnottomorrow,won’tbeWednesday….