deposition of frank fiorini sturgis in hunt v. weberman
TRANSCRIPT
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 1/119
I
UNITED STATES
DISTRICT
COURT
fo r the
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF
FLORIDA
MIAMI
DIVISION
:_·
\ r
Civ i l
Act ion F i l e No. 76-1252-Civ-PP
E.
HOWARD HUNT
JR.
P l a i n t i f f
v
THE THIRD PRESS--JOSEPH OKPAKU
PUBLISHING CO. INC . a New
York
co rpo ra t i on and JOSEPH OKPAKU
MICHAEL
CANFIELD ALAN
J . WEBER
MAN
and
MARIA GRACIA
FELICIANO
Defendants .
DEPOSITION OF
FRANK A . STURGIS
350
Lincoln
Road
Su i t e 422
Miami Beach F lo r i da 33139
Fr iday
2:00
· ~ ·
Februa ry 3
1978
APPEARANCES
ELLIS
S.
RUBIN
ESQ.
265 E. 26
Ter race
Miami
Flo r ida
33137
Attorney for P l a i n t i f f
MARK J . FRIEDMAN ESQ.
350 Lincoln
Road Su i t e
422
Miami Beach Flo r ida
33139
Attorney fo r Defendants
{arrie
Jan£
~ o l l a n
liilingual Court
Rtporltr
Also pre sen t :
Alan J . Weberman
Defend
an t
Public
liltnngraphu
-
fntuprtl tr
•
iransl•lion
s
1800
.
le . '. 4 flot
.
flpt. 820
flliAmt florirl J 331 . 5
~ 0 5 633 .0 056
-·--
- -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - _
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 2/119
· ·
·
·
-- - -
I N D E X
l
WITNESS
DIRECT
CROSS
I
Frank A S tu rg i s
3
EXHIBITS
Page
Defendants Exhib i t No 1
90
..
.... · 1 ·
CERTIFIED
QUESTIONS
N
0
N
E
2
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 3/119
\
/
I I
-
THEREUPON:
FRANK A.
STURGIS
was du ly
cau t i oned and sworn, then
c a r e f u l l y
examined,
t e s t i f y i n g
as
fo l lows
upon
h i s
sworn
o a t h :
DIRECT
EXAMINATION
Q
(By
Mr .
Friedman) Would you s t a t e your
f u l l name fo r t he r e c o rd , p l e a se ?
A
Frank Anthony S t u r g i s .
Q Are you t he same person spoken o f by
Mr.
Hunt
in
h i s
Amended Compla in t
as
be i ng
s u b j e c t to
a cons p i r acy to k i l l you?
MR RUBIN: May I see
what
you a r e
r e -
f e r r i n
g
t o ,
p l e a se?
MR
FRIEDMAN:
(Handing document
to
c o u n se l . )
MR .
RUBil\J:
Ma y we
read
t h i s f o r a
monent
?
MR. FRIEDMAN:
C e r t a i n l y , sir
They
a re
your p lead in g s .
I b e l i e v e t he second
o r
last page
wi l l
i nc lude
the c o n s p i r a c y .
I
unde r s t and
you
f l ew
to
New
York
to
a t t e n d
the
d e p o s i t i o n o f
M ar i t a
Lorens and your e x -
penses were
$198
and change , and t h i s i s
a
check f rom
W
e be rm a n ' s mother
fo r
200 fo r
y o u r s e l f .
' R • RU B
IN :
Thank
y
ou.
I w i l l send
you
3
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 4/119
a r e c e i p t .
MR WEBERMAN:
Al so send
me
$198,
so I
expec t
$2
back.
Q
By Mr.
Friedman)
What were
you
do ing
a t 12:30 p.m. on November
22,
1963?
MR WEBERMAN: Could ask
one ques -
t ion?
MR RUBIN: am going to
o b j e c t to the
de fendant in t h i s case i n t e r f e r i n g with
t he
d e p o s i t i o n
MR FRIEDMAN: He w i l l conduc t
himsel f
with the d i gn i t y t ha t has been m a in ta ine d
t h roughou t
t h i s case and t he re a r e no p ie s
in the
oven.
MR
RUBIN: Thank you.
Q (By Ir.
Friedman)
What
were
you doing
about 12:30
p.m.
on November
22,
1963?
A On
November 22,
1963,
a t
about 12 :30
p.rn. , I
was
a t a pa r ty
in
my home in Miami, F l o r i d a
with my wi fe Jane t S t u r g i s my mothe r - in - l aw E l i z a
be th Hunt ,
and
my
nephew,
who was
a t my
home
a t
t h a t
t ime
Jim
Hunt.
Q Where was t h i s home l oca t ed?
A 2515 N. W
122nd
S t r e e t Miami,
Flo r ida
33167.
I s t h i s
the same home
you m a in ta in
tocia.y ?
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 5/119
- - - - - - - - - - - -
A
Yes, s i r .
Q
Can
you
desc r ibe your movements
on t ha t
day, to
the
b e s t of your
r eco l l e c t i on?
A
Not
r e a l l y ; t was
so
many
years
ago.
I
was
home.
I d i d go ou t .
I have
o the r people
with t he Fede ra l Government
t h a t do have
on record t ha t
cou ld t e s t i f y o r have a l r e a d y t e s t i f i e d
t ha t I was in Miami on
November
22,
1963.
Q
November
22nd
was
a
working
da y .
Were
you
working a t
t ha t
t ime?
A Most ~ ~ ~ l y .
Q o you have any reason
fo r
no t be ing a
work t h a t day?
A What
day was t on?
MR.
WEBI:R 1AN:
Fr i day .
THE DEPONENT:
Fr iday?
No
r e a s o n .
Q
(By
Mr. Friedman)
Does
t he name
Gera ld ine Shamm mean a ny th ing to you?
A
Gera ld ine Shamm
Yes.
She
was a
woma
who
l ived
in
Havana, Cuba.
Gera ld ine I
r e c r u i t e d
to
spy for
the
United
S t a t e s
Government
in Havana, Cuba.
She
l a t e r
- - befo re
the
Bay of P igs
Invas ion was
a r r e s t e d for
spying in
Cuba,
r ece i ved
a
10-yea r
sen tence went to pr i son
in
Cuba
for
~
years ;
was r e l ea sed a f t e r
the
a t t o rn e y r ep re sendng th
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 6/119
Uni ted S t a t e s
Government
in p r i v a t e
i n t e r e s t
a t
t h a t
t ime , secured
t he r e l e a s e of t he
Bay
of P igs
p r i s o n e r s
and,
n a t u r a l l y ,
G e ra l d i n e Shamm.
Q
What were you do ing t h a t
day?
You say
you d o n t
remember.
o you remember
I d o n t
r e c a l l .
Q
Do you
remember t a l k i n g to
a
Mr. Michae
Canf i e l d ,
t he
c o - a u t h o r o f t h i s book?
On t h a t
day?
Q
About
the
e ve n t s
of
t h a t
day .
Yes.
Q
Do you remember
what
you t o l d him?
Not r e a l l y ;
it s been so
Q Could you have t o l d
him you
were
watching t e l e v i s i o n ?
P o s s i b l y ; ye s , ye s .
s a
~ t t e r o f
f a c t , I
t h i nk
my m o t h e r -
i n - l a w t o l d me
t he
p r e s i d e n t
was a s s a s s in a t e d .
Q Were you watch ing
t e l e v i s i o n
around
12:30 i n t he a f te rnoo n t h a t day?
I
d o n t
remember;
so
many
y e a r s
ago .
I
d o n t r e c a l l .
Q So you
w o u l d n t
remember
what
program
w s
on?
i\
I t h i nk it was on a l l
s t a t i o n s .
It was
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 7/119
a c o n t i n u a t i o n
t h a t
day
o f
t he a s s a s s i n a t i o n .
Q
In
November
o f 1963,
did you visit
Dal l a s , Texas?
A
P o s s i b l y .
You
must
unde r s t a nd
t h a t
I
was
do ing a
s e r i e s o f o p e ra t i o n s
in t he
Ca r ibbe a n a r
and
I
went
numerous
t imes to
Mexico
so t h e r e i s a
good p o s s i b i l i t y .
Q Do you remember how
many
t im e s
you
v i s i t e d D a l l a s i n November o f 1963?
I d o n t r e c a l l o f f h a n d .
Q
o you remember t he r e a s on
f o r t h e
vi
s p e c i f i c a l l y to
D a l l a s , o t h e r t ha n t h i s
A I
was
j u s t p a s s i n g t h rough , be c a us e I
went t h rough D a l l a s , I
went
th rough Nuevo La re do , I
went
t h rough
many
d i f f e r e n t
cities.
Did you meet t he mayor o f
D a l l a s
in
November o f 6 3 , Mr. Ear l Cable?
( P h o n e t i c . )
I d o n t
r e c a l l ;
no.
I d o n t b e l i e v e
ever d id meet
him.
Q
Did
yott
v i s i t Chicago in November o f
63?
No.
Q
Did t h e S e c r e t S e r v i c e q u e s t i o n you i
November o f 1963 in Chicago , I l l i n o i s ?
No.
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 8/119
Q Are you f a m i l i a r
wi th
the name of a
Cuban
e x i l e ,
Homer Ec he va r r i a ?
A P o s s i b l y .
Q
You w o u l d n t know a ny th ing
o t h e r
t ha n
f a m i l i a r i t y wi th t he
name
o r - -
A
Well t he l a s t
name
sounds f a m i l i a r .
I know many Cubans and u n fo r tu n a t e ly some I
knew
by
s i g h t .
Unles s
I
am
c o n s t a n t l y
in touch w i th
them I
proba b ly
would
know them
much
b e t t e r
by
t h e i r
f a c e s .
Q
o
you
know an Amer ican i n fo rm a n t named
Thomas
Mosley?
A No.
Q Are you f a m i l i a r w i th A na s t a s io
Somoza
the d i c t a t o r
of N icaragua?
A
Yes
yes .
I know
him
p e r s o n a l l y .
Q
When
did
you first
meet
him; to
t he
bes t
of your r e c o l l e c t i o n ?
Oh
let s see .
Somoza? I d o n t know
in what y e a r I met
P r e s i d e n t
Somoza
but
I
met
him
one t ime in Cora l Gables , F l o r i d a .
Q
You were
in
Miami dur i ng November
6 3 ?
Oh
yes ; q u i t e a
b i t .
I was do ing a i r
o p e r a t i o n s in
and ou t
of
t he Car ibbean a rea ; and,
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 9/119
a l s o , in Cuba.
Q o you
s p e c i f i c a l l y remember when
Pres iden t
Kennedy
v i s i t e d
the Miami a rea in t h a t
month?
A
Not
p a r t i c u l a r l y
t h a t month.
I be l ieve
t h a t Pres iden t
Kennedy
came to the
Miami
Beach
a rea
two
d i f f e r e n t t imes .
On one
of
t he occas ions
t h a t
Pres iden t
Kennedy did come to Miami Beach,
I took
ex-
pres iden t
Car los Pr o
to v i s i t and speak
with
t he
P re s id e n t .
I
a r ranged t h a t - -
Q That
was
in November of 63?
A
I d o n ' t r e c a l l , because
he
was
t he r e
two
t imes
on
Miami Beach, and I
d o n ' t
r e c a l l ; but t
could
have
been.
Q
o
you remember
what
happened
to
Mr.
Prfo
in the recen t
pas t ?
A Yes. Mr.
Prfo
commit ted s u i c i d e .
J
Were
you ques t ioned by l oca l
o r f e d e r a
po l i ce about t h i s p a r t i c u l a r v i s i t
of P r es i den t Kenne
to Miami?
No
As a matter of
f a c t , t was
very
easy
for me
to
t ake the Pres iden t th rough
the
s e c u r i t
se t -up t h a t was se t around t he P r es i den t .
There
was
no
problem
i n t ak ing
Pres iden t Car l os P r o
and myself
to see
the P r es i den t .
9
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 10/119
As a
m a t t e r of f a c t , on t he second
f l o o r of the ho te l
t h e y
s e t up
a
r e c e p t i o n room fo r
two hundred peop le and
I and
e x - P r e s i d e n t
o f
Cuba,
Car los P r o , were
p a r t o f
the two hundred peop le t h a t
spoke
to
P r e s i d e n t Kennedy.
Q Was
t he I n t e r n a t i o n a l Communist
B r ig ad e
i nvo lved in t h i s
speech?
What
speech
a r e
you
t a l k i n g abou t?
Q Let m withdraw
t he
q u e s t i o n .
Was
your
group ,
t he
I n t e r n a t i o n a l
A n t i -
Communist Brigade , f lown
anywhere
d u r i n g
t he
t ime o f
P r e s i d e n t Kennedy s visit to Miami, fo r
t he
purpose o f
check ing
t he crowd, check ing
fo r doub le a g e n t s , t h i n g s
of t h i s na tu r e ?
Well , you have to
unde r s t a nd t h a t t he
In t e rn a t i o n a l Communist Br igade were
a
group
o f
peop le
who
were d e d i c a t e d i n o rde r
to
f i g h t Communism,
and
t h a t is Communism
i n s i d e
of C a s t r o ' s
Cuba.
So
we d id a
s e r i e s of
o p e r a t i o n s
a g a i n s t Ca s t ro Cuba and t h a t was our l i m i t
o f
what t he
Br igade
members
had
to
do.
Q
Did
t he I n t e r n a t i o n a l
Communist Br igad
under
your s u p e r v i s i o n o r wi th your
knowledge, s u p e r -
v i s e
o r
a t t e n d a
visit o f
P r e s i d e n t
Kennedy in t he
im
frame
of 1963 in Miami?
10
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 11/119
I
b e l i e v e
I
j u s t
answered t h a t ques -
t i o n , to the
fac t
t h a t went
the re
as an
i n d iv id u a l
with the e x - P r e s i d e n t
o f
Cuba.
Natu ra l ly - - w e l l ,
l e t
me go befo re
t h a t .
N a tu ra l l y , e x -P re s id e n t Car l os
P r i o
c a l l e d
me to ask me
i f
could se t up a
meet ing
wi th
Pres iden t
Kennedy who
was
coming down to Miami
Beach.
sa id ,
yes ,
w i l l
t r y to
do
so , which d i d .
In
doing so, n a t u r a l l y ,
both
P re s id e n t Car l os
P r i o and
I
went
to
see
P r e s i d e n t
Kennedy,
whom I
i n t roduced to
Pres iden t P r io .
Q
Were
the re any members
of
t he
I n t e r -
na t iona l Anti-Communist
Brigade
in
a t t endance
a t
t h a t
meeting?
J us t mysel f
and
the e x -P re s id e n t of
Cuba, because
t h a t s the only
ones t h a t I c a l l e d to
have t h i s persona l gr ee t i ng with the P re s id e n t of the
United
S t a t e s .
Again,
we have i n fo rma t i on
t h a t you
spoke with Michael
Canf i e ld ,
co -au tho r o f t h i s book,
and
t ha t
you
ind ica ted
to
him
t h a t
you
were
que s t ione d
by the
FBI
on the day a f t e r the a s s a s s i n a t i o n . o you
remember
the names
of those
agen t s?
Let me
say t h i s :
I have
read
many
book
p e r t a in in g
to Wate rga te , pe r t a i n i ng to the a s s a s s i n a -
· ~
11
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 12/119
- -- - --------------
t i on of Pres iden t Kennedy,
and
every
t ime
t h a t
my
name
i s
ment ioned
in
any of these books - - r e g a rd l e s s
of
whether it
i s of
P re s id e n t Kennedy o r
the
Water-
ga te - -
I
look , myse l f , and what
they
say
i n t hese
books
pe r t a i n i ng to
me, and
if t he in fo rma t ion i s
wroll<; ' •out l"e,
then
I cons ide r
the
book its lf 50
o r more as noth ing bu t a bunch o f l i e s .
Now, p e r t a i n i n g to - - I mean,
I m
saying a l l
books because
the news media, you can t ll
them
one
th ing
and
many
people
- -
not
a l l
peop l e
w i l l change
what
you say , and
u n fo r tu n a t e ly t h i s
i s
the
way it happens .
And
o t he r peop l e , who
do
no t
i n v e s t i
gate t h e i r sources p ro p e r ly , w i l l con t i nue to go
ahead and
w r i t e
what t hey have read from o t h e r source
So,
na tu ra l l y you
have a c o n t in u a t i o n
of
wrong
i n f o r ~ t i o n or bad
i n fo rma t ion , and j u s t
c o n t i n u a l l y
going
on.
Now, t he
FBI did make con t ac t
wi th m
a f t e r the a s s a s s i n a t i o n of P re s id e n t Kennedy; yes .
When,
I
do
not
know;
b u t ,
I am
p o s i t i v e ,
I m s u r e
the
FBI
have
it
in
t he i r reco rds ,
in t h e i r memos, who
the
two
agent s
were,
you know,
what day, what t ime ,
and
so fo r th .
They did come and
v i s i t me and ques t ion
l
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 13/119
me abou t my a c t i v i t i e s
dur ing
the a s s a s s in a t i o n of
P r e s i d e n t
Kennedy.
Q
o you remember one o f those agen t s
i n d i c a t i n g
to
you
t he
fo l l ow ing
words :
Frank ,
you
were one
o f
t he
few
p e o p l e in t h i s c oun t ry
capab l e o f
p u l l i n g
something l i k e t h i s ?
A
No. The a ge n t t o l d me t h a t I was one
person in
t h i s
c o u n t r y t h a t cou ld
p o s s i b l y
do t h i s ,
i I wanted t o .
Q o
you
remember
t he
name James J .
O Connor a s be ing
one o f t hos e a ge n t s ?
A
Offhand ,
no; bu t I 'm sure t h a t Mr.
O Connor
cou ld
p o s s i b l y
be one o f t he two a g e n t s t h a t
I
spoke w i th .
Q
o you remember
t he
name of t he p r o p a -
ganda
s e c r e t a ry o f t he I n t e r n a t i o n a l Communist
Brigade?
A
Unders tand
one
t h i n g ;
t h a t t he
Br igade went
a long
fo r so
l ong and
t hen
I
d i s a s s o c i a t
myse l f wi th
t he Br iga de .
Q
P r i o r
to
November
o f
1963?
A I 'm no t s u r e e x a c t l y
when
it happened
and t he pe rson
who
d i d
t a ke o v e r
t he Brigade was
J im
Buchanan from, I t h i n k
he
l i v e d
up in F o r t La ude rda l e
Q So t h i s i s su b se q u e n t
to
your
a s s o c i a
- - - - -
13
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 14/119
wi th the Br igade
o r
contemporaneous wi th i t ?
P o s s i b l y ; it s been so f a r , so
many
ye a r s ago.
Q Do you remember Mr. Buchanan g i v i n g
o
a news s to ry t h a t a l l e g e d t h a t Lee Harvey
Oswald
was
in
Miami
in
1963?
A
Oh yes
As a m a t t e r o f
f a c t ,
h i s
b r o t h e r , J e r r y Buchanan
was one of t he pe op le t h a t
was with
my group and J e r r y
d i d g ive
me
some
i n fo rm a
t i o n
to the f a c t t h a t he t hough t t h a t t h e r e was a
p o s s i b i l i t y t h a t one of t he pe r s ons
- -
now
you
must
remember
t h a t
dur ing
t h a t
p a r t i c u l a r
t ime t h e r e
were
hundreds
o f Amer icans in
t he
a re a , p l u s Canad ians in
t h i s a rea
here
t r y in g
to
make c o n t a c t
w i th
v a r i o u s
Cuban
groups
in
o r e ~
to
be
i nvo lved
a g a i n s t
Cuba
a
J e r ry d id tell me t h a t t h e r e was a p o s s i b i l i t y t h a t
Oswald
was
in t h i s a rea and
t h a t he
had a
f i g h t w i t h
Oswald; he w a s n ' t
s u r e ,
but
t h i s
i s
what
he t o l d me.
Q
o
you remember g i v i ng a
s t o r y
to any
body e s p e c i a l l y
Mr. Canf i e l d ,
t h a t
you may
have bee
in Washington,
o .
C. ,
on
November 22 1963?
I d o n ' t r e c a l l .
Q o you remember what you were
do ing
f
a l i v i n g a t t he t ime o f t he
a s s a s s i n a t i o n ,
what your
job was o r how you ea rned your l i v i n g ,
what
you ea rn
14
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 15/119
your l i v in g a t ?
T h a t s q u i t e a
l ong s p e l l .
I would
have to r e a l l y wrack my mind to f i nd ou t a t
t h a t
p a r t i c u l a r t ime
what
was doing .
Right a t
t he
p re -
sen t
t ime , d o n t know;
but
could , you
know,
t h rough r eco rds and
so fo r th .
Q Pas t reco rds , fo r example?
Yeah,
pas t
r eco rds ; I c ou ld l ook
through
them
and tell
you
what
was doing a t t h a t
p a r t i c u l a r
t ime.
Q Did
you
eve r
have any
a s s o c i a t i o n
with
Lee Harvey Oswald
p r i o r to November 22,
1963?
No.
Q Did
you eve r have any
i n f o r m a t i o n t h a t
would t e l l you t ha t Lee Harvey
Oswald
was
t r y i n g to
a s s o c i a t e himse l f
wi th the
Brigade
or
o th e r
commit tee
i nc lud ing
t he Free Cuba
Commit tee?
Yes.
Q You
did
have t h a t i n fo rma t i on p r i o r to
November
22,
1963?
Yes, and
I t u rned t h a t over
to
the
government .
Q Pr io r o r a f t e r
November of
63?
t
would
have to be a f t e r 63 .
Q
But you
had no persona l communica t ion?
15
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 16/119
Not t h a t I know
o f .
Q Do
you
remember t he
amount
of
t imes
t h a t
you were
que s t ione d
by
t h e S e c r e t S e r v i c e
FBI
Church Committee
o r
o th e r s
of
an o f f i c i a l
n a t u r e
abou t t he
a s s a s s i n a t i o n o f
P r e s i d e n t
Kennedy?
I was
ques t i oned by t he
FBI
s h o r t l y
a f t e r
t he a s s a s s i n a t i o n .
The
ne x t t ime I was que s -
t i one d abou t the
a s s a s s i n a t i o n was
d u r i n g
t he Water -
ga te
problems
t h a t
I had.
The ne x t t ime
was t he
R o c k e f e l l e r
Commission
and ll t he way up to t he p re s e n t
d a y .
Q Each
t ime once
fo r
each
s e t o f q u e s -
t i ons?
No
numerous
t im e s .
The
r e a s o n
why t he
numerous
t imes
t h a t
I
was
q u e s t i o n e d
by
t h e s e p e o p l e
because
s i nce
1972 my
problem
wi th
Waterga te I r e -
ce ived th rough f r i e n d s i n f o r m a t i o n
p e r t a i n i n g
to
t he
a s s a s s i n a t i o n ; n a t u r a l l y which
I in t u r n
t u r n e d
t h i s
i n fo rm a t ion
over to
t he A s s a s s i n a t i o n
Commit tees ;
n a t u r a l l y .
Q
Do you
have
a t a pe
r e c o r d e r
on your
t e l e phone
as
a g e n e r a l c our s e o f conduc t?
o I have a t a pe r e c o r d e r ?
I have a
t a ? e
r e c o r d e r
and
I t a pe
a ny th ing
- -
Q
Yes.
o you t a pe a ny th ing on t h a t ?
16
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 17/119
Le t me f i n i s h .
I t ape
a n y t h i n g t h a t
comes
on the
t e l e v i s i o n p e r t a i n i n g t o the
JFK o r CIA.
Q
o you t a pe your own
t e l e p h o n e
when
incoming c a l l s
come
i n?
No.
Q o you know why t h e v a r i o u s
co mmi t t ee s
and government a ge nc ie s
ques t i oned
you
a b o u t t h a t
a s s a s s i n a t i o n ?
Unders tand one t h in g : The q u e s t i o n i n g
of
t he
A s s a s s i n a t i o n
Commit tees ,
when
t he y
were
in
t ouch wi th
me
I have went v o l u n t a r i l y , I
have
NEVER
been subpoenaed; t he y
have
c a l l e d me
and
I
have
went
v o l u n t a r i l y ,
numerous t imes
a t
my
own
e x p e n se .
I
have
no th ing to h ide .
The F e d e r a l
Government knows of my a c t i v i t i e s , knows
where
I was
a t
on
t h a t
p a r t i c u l a r
day of t he a s s a s s i n a t i o n , and I
am q u i t e sure t h a t
t he
governmen t
a s f a r a s I m
concerned - -
i s wel l
aware
o f who i s
beh ind - - IF
t he re was
a c o n s p i r a c y , I
b e l i e v e
t h e r e
was
a
c o n s p i
racy
- - and
t he y
a re wel l aware
o f
who
was
b e h i n d
t h e
c o n s p i r a c y .
Q
Do you remember where you were t h e we
end p r i o r
to
Q
t he
a s s a s s i n a t i o n ?
No. T h a t s too f a r
back
r e a l l y .
No.
Did
you
e v e r s t a y
a t a
p l a c e c a l l e d
t h
17
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 18/119
the Cabana Motel in D a l las o r For t Worth,
Texas?
A Never
Q o you remember
any mote ls
t h a t you
may
have s t ayed a t in the
D a l l a s
a rea?
A
No.
Any t ime
I
went to D a l l a s
I
went
th rough Dal las .
I
never s t ayed any p lace i n D a l l a s .
Q
Did you ever
l e ave
the
a i r p o r t
when
yo
were
t r a v e l i n g ?
nec t ions?
I assume
you
were making p l a ne con-
A I
went th rough
I
drove t h rough b e
cause most of the
t ime
t h a t I went
to
Mexico, I drove
through Texas .
Q But you never s t ayed
ove r n i gh t
in D al l
o r For t worth?
A
Never
s t ayed
ove r n i gh t
in
D a l l a s
Texas.
Q
o
you
know Orlando Bosch?
A
Yes. Orlando
Bosch was a r e b e l l e a d e r
in the
Escambray Mountains .
He had a group
o f
app rox
ima te ly 1 500 g u e r r i l l a s t h e r e .
The CIA
was
m a i n t a i n
ing t h i s
g u e r r i l l a
fo rce up to
a
p o i n t
where orde r s
came
down
t h a t the g u e r r i l l a fo rces and a c t i v i t i e s ha
to
be s topped .
So, n a t u r a l l y one of t he
boys came
over with
the
m i l i t a r y commander of t h i s
g u e r r i l l a
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 19/119
force in Cuba
came
over
to
t r y to make c o n t a c t
in
the loca l
a rea with the
CIA o r persona l c o n t a c t in
o r d e r to
con t i nue t he supply
of t he se
fo rce s
in t he
Escambray
Mounta ins .
Q Did you
know
t ha t
t he l a t e
Dr.
Manuel
Ar t ime?
A Yes.
Q Did you
work
with him
in
t he MRR?
A
Let me say
t h i s
here . I
had
c o n t a c t
with Artime
s ince
Art ime came
from
Cuba.
I was p a r t
o f the o r i g i n a l
o f f i c e r s
t ha t
orga n iz e d
t he
RR
Manuel
Artime
was an ind iv idua l who l ft Cuba came
to the
Uni ted
S ta t e s .
I
did not
know Art ime in Cuba
but
I was
one o f
the o r i g i n a l
o f f i c e r s
who he l ped
oPganize
the
RR
movement
in
the
Uni ted
S t a t e s .
Q
Would you
say
t ha t the
RR was i d e n -
t i c a l to the group
known
as
the
M-I-R-R?
A No t he y a re two d i f f e r e n t groups .
The MIRR was a group headed
by
Dr.
Orlando Bosch who
broke o f f
from t he
RR
in Cuba and
formed h is
own
o rg a n i z a t i o n which
was
t he FIRR
phone t ic )
Q Was your f r i end , Gera l d i ne Shamma a l s
a s soc ia ted with Dr.
Artime?
Yes.
19
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 20/119
- -
Q
To
your
knowledge?
A Yes.
Q Did you ever work with Dr. Art me in
the
M-I-R-R?
A
Art me
never
worked in t he MIRR.
Re-
member,
the re are
two
d i f f e r e n t
or gan i za t i ons ,
two
d i f f e r e n t
l e ade r s .
Dr.
Bosch was
the
l e ade r of t he
MIRR.
I j u s t want to spec i fy t h a t , you
know
Q
I unde r s t and . You exp l a i ned the se tw
a reas
and
answered
t he ques t ions and you have
been
most c o -o p e ra t i v e .
Did you inform t he
Uni t ed
S t a t e s o v e
p l o t aga i ns t Henry
Kiss inge r in La t in
Q
ment about a
America;
s p e c i f i c a l l y ,
in Costa
Rica ,
t h a t involved
Grlando
Bosch?
A Let
m
say t h i s .
I
n o t i f i e d the
American Government o f an i n t e r n a t i o n a l
p l o t to k i l l
I r . Kiss inger .
Let
me
say t h i s ,
change t h a t a little
b i t
around
- -
not a round, I m
so r ry .
I
n o t i f i e d the
American Government t h
t he re
was
a
p l o t
to
d i s r u p t
and poss ib ly do harm to
Mr.
Ki ss i nge r and,
a l s o ,
t he pres iden t o f a f o r e i g n
count ry
when
he
would
a r r i v e to t h i s
c o u n t r y .
20
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 21/119
a
Yes, I advi sed the
government
of t h i s
p l o t .
Q Were
you aware t h a t
Mr.
Art me
a r rang
for Bosch' r e l ea s e from the Cos ta Rican j a i l ?
A No, I was
no t aware o f t h a t .
Q
Did you
know
the
Lanz Bro t he r s?
A Comandante
Pedro D az
Lanz
has
been a
f r i end of mine
over a
pe r iod o f many,
many yea r s .
Pedro , I knew in Cuba when I
came
out o f t he mounta
a t
one p a r t i c u l a r t ime . I was in t roduced to Pedro
Diaz
Lanz
in
Sant iago de Cuba, where both
him
and
m
s e l f went ou t o f Cuba to
do
a se r i e s of ope r a t i ons t
br ing supp l ie s in to Cuba fo r the
g u e r r i l l a s .
Q
o
you
remember when you
first
met M
Pedro
D1az
Lanz?
A Mmm - - t h a t s going back
many
yea rs a
I
would be l ieve it was e i
t he r
1957, 1958.
Q
Mr .
Lanz i nd i ca t ed 1957, so
your
mem
i s
most c o r r e c t .
A
Ei the r o n e ,
b e c a u s e
I know I came
o u
o f
the
mounta ins t hose two y e a r s .
Q And
you
were f ami l i a r with h i s b r o t h
Marcos?
Yes.
the Cuban Air
Force .
Ma
r cos
was the second c h i e f o f
His pos i t i on was
I n s pec t o r
- - - -
21
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 22/119
General of the Cuban
Air
Force .
Q
Did you ever have any
con t ac t
w i t h
Pedro
or
Marcos
dur ing
November 1963?
No.
Unders tand t h a t
Pedro and Marcos
a re my
f r i e n d s even
u n t i l
today
and we have c o n s t a n t l y
been
in
touch wi th
each
o t h e r ,
whether it spanned
over
a per iod
o f , you know days
or weeks or
wha t eve r , fo r
t he se many
yea rs .
Q Did
you
have any con tac t with
him in
Da l la s , Texas in November o f 1963?
No.
Q o
you
remember the Novo Bro the rs ,
Cuban e x i l e s t ha t
are pr e s en t l y
in
New Je r sey?
e Novo?
Q
Guil lermo Novo?
The name - -
I d o n t
r e c a l l t he
name
a t
the presen t
t ime.
many
Cubans.
It s
pos s i b l e .
Like
I
sa i d ,
I
know
Q
G. P a t r i ck Hemming
a l so
known a s J e r r y
Hemming?
Yes.
Q
Did you have
any a s s o c i a t i o n w i t h
him
in
November of 1963?
J e r r y P a t r i ck
Hemming
has ,
I v e
known
him over
a per i od o f
yea r s
t ha t go
way back
and I
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 23/119
r ··
c o u ld n t e x a c t l y tell you
t he
exac t month o r yea r
ac t ua l l y t ha t
I met
J e r ry ,
and I have known him
a l l
o
t hese years ; bu t , aga in ,
you know
people
go
t h e i r
ow
way and
you see
them o c c a s io n a l l y .
what-have
you.
him before
63 .
I r e a l l y
d o n t know what t hey
do
o r
so , the re i s a p o s s i b i l i t y t h a t I knew
Q o you have any evidence
t h a t
Alan
J u l e s
Weberman the
gent leman
s i t t i n g nex t
to
me
t oda
engaged i n consp i racy t o l u r e you to
New
York C i ty an
in
f ac t consp i re , by himsel f o r with o the r s , to
commi
the crime of
murder
on you?
Let
me
say
t h i s : Mari ta
Lorens and I
have
been
in
touch
with
each
o the r
over
t he t e l ephone
and
one evening - -
and, aga in , t h i s
i s ,
I imagine a
few months
ago - -
I
r ece ived
a
phone
c a l l
from
a
news
paper man
in New York from
t he
New
York News
His
name
was
Paul Mesk i l l ,
M-e-s -k - i -1 -1 ,
I
b e l i e v e .
Mr. Meski l l
t o l d
me t h a t M ar i t a
Lorens
was a t
h is of f
i c e
and
ment ioned to
him or
gave him
s t o r y .
He was
not su re
whether h i s e d i t o r
would
pub-
l i s h the s t o r y o r
no t ;
but he wanted
to t a l k
to me
about t h i s p a r t i c u l a r s t o r y .
So n a t u r a l l y , what he t o l d me I
n a t u r a l l y
denied
it
t he f ac t
t ha t
she s t a t e d
in the
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 24/119
·
s to ry
t ha t she was in
Miami,
F l o r i da , she left
Miami,
F lo r id a ,
two
days
befo re t he
p r e s i d e n t ' s
a s s a s s ina t ion ,
drove
from
Miami,
F l o r i da , to
Dal l a s , Texas ,
and
in
the au tomobi le
were
- - wel l , I 'm not su re o f all o f
the names - - mysel f ,
he r ,
she ment ioned Dr.
Orlando
Bosch,
Pedro
D az Lanz, some o th e r
Cubans,
a
coup l e
o f
Cuban
b ro th e r s - - which I th ink
she
got
mixed up
t he r e
because
the re
a r e
on ly two br o t he r s , Pedro
D az Lanz
and
Marcos
Lanz
- -
and, a l s o ,
t h a t
t he person who
f inanced
t h i s
t r i p
to
Dal l a s was E.
Howard
Hunt .
I sa id , It's a lie.
something l i k e t h a t ?
ow could she say
He s a i d ,
' 'Wel l ,
f r a n k ly , I 'm on l y
t e l l i n g you what she t o ld
me,
and
I wanted to check
wi th you".
I sa id , I d o n ' t
b e l i e v e
t h a t Mar i t a
could say t he se
th ings
because it's an u t t e r lie .
He says , ' 'Well , I
d o n ' t
t h ink my e d i t o r i s
going
to
p r i n t
it
though .
Then
the next day, b ingo ,
t h i s
came
out
over
the wire showing
he r ,
mysel f
and
what
she
had s t a t e d , and t he se
accus a t i ons .
Now a per i od o f t ime went by.
Mr.
Gaeton
Fonzi (phone t i c ) ,
the Inves t iga tor
fo r t he
House
Assass ina t ion
Committee, con tac t ed me.
He
t o ld
24
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 25/119
me, ' 'Frank, I got a c a l l
from Washington to
go
ahead
and
check
i n to
these a l l e g a t i o n s of Mar i ta Lorens
and
n a t u r a l l y I have to sit
down
and
t a l k
with you .
Fine . So
we
s e t up
a
meet ing,
t a l k e d
with Fonzi and he says , What do you t h ink i s beh ind
t h i s ?
I
s a i d
I
d i d n ' t
know. So, n a t u r a l l y ,
I
defended
Mari ta .
I s a i d ,
' ' I d o n ' t
t h ink Mari ta
Lorens would
do
t h i s by h e r s e l f . There had to be
some reason or some fo rce pushing her
behind
t h i s .
He
says ,
Well , it seems
t ha t
way. I
j u s t
c a n ' t
be l i eve
it ,
you
know,
eve ry t h i ng
t h a t ' s
going
on .
Now
you
must unders t and
t h a t Gaeton
Fonzi
i s
the
same
i n v e s t i g a t o r
who
had
been
in
t ouc h
wi th me
prev ious ly
t h rough t he
Sweicher
Commit tee and
so f o r t h .
e
had d i scussed and
I have
given
him
i n fo rma t i on t h a t I have r ece ived p e r t a i n i n g t o ,
you
know,
what I t h ink o r
what
I thought
was
a consp i racy
to
k i l l
the pr e s i den t
and c e r t a i n i n d i v i d u a l s
whom
I
be l i eved were i nvo lve d in t he c o n s p i r a c y , and the
evidence pe r t a i n i ng to t h i s involvement .
So,
he
d i d
ask me,
' 'Have
you been in
touch wi th Mar i ta Lorens? ' '
I s a i d No, I haven
•
He s a i d ,
I
t h i nk it
might be
a
good
25
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 26/119
\
i dea ,
speak wi th
her
and
ask her
about t h e s e
a c c u s a -
t ions .
I s a i d ,
f i n e .
So,
on h i s adv ice
I d i d c o n -
t a c t
Ma r i t a
Lorens .
So, when
I
c a l l e d Ma r i t a , Ma r i t a
was
s u ~ p r i s e t h a t
I
spoke w i t h her .
I
sa id , M a r i t a ,
t h i s i s Fra nk .
Sh
Y
Oh, h
sa
s , ow a re you?
s a y s ,
Fine .
She s a y s , ' 'Are you
mad
a t me?''
I
says , No.
Why
should
I be
mad a t you?
We've
been f r i e n d s
f o r
y e a r s .
Q Isn t it t r u e t h a t you
were
more t ha n
f r i e n d s wi th he r a t
var i ous
t imes and p l a c e s ?
A
Well , you 've g o t t a
unde r s t a nd
t h a t
t h e r e has
been a pe r iod o f ye a r s I
h a v e n ' t
seen Ma r i t a
so I never
knew what
s h e ' s
done , what she has been
i nvo lved
i n .
As
a
m a t t e r
o f
f a c t , she d id have some
prob lems
in New
York.
I
found o u t t h a t she was
working undercover
fo r ,
you know, t he p o l i c e d e p a r t -
ment; t h a t one o f her boy f r i e n d s ,
whom
she
was
i nvo lved wi t h , was t r y i n g
to
b la c km a i l he r
and
she
s ho t
him.
Q
Dead?
A
No.
She
s ho t
him, and
s h e ' s go t a
m ir ro r i n
her bedroom
wi th
a
b u l l e t ho le t h e r e .
And because one t ime when
I
was up
G
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 27/119
· · ·. ·
t he re I
says , "Howcome you
d o n ' t
t ake
c a r e
o f t he
b u l l e t
hole? and she says ,
Well , I
l i k e to keep it
as
a memento",
you know; and she sho t t he
guy
N a t u r a l l y , t he guy isn t
go ing
to go
ahead and t u rn her over to the po l i ce .
Now, she
was
t e l l i n g me
about
h i s
t h r e a t s ,
abou t
how
he had t h r ea t ened
to
kill h e r ,
to
do harm to
her k ids
- -
Q o you know t he name o f her boy f r i end?
No, I
d o n ' t .
Q
D i d n ' t
you
l a t e r
make
t hos a c c u s a t i o n s
abou t her?
Wel l , l e t me go ahead, you know, g e t
t hese t h i ngs here - -
Q
You
tell
your
s t o r y .
Perhaps
it w i l l
t ake
ca re of t h r ee pages
o f
t e s t im ony .
True .
So she
asked
me, she says , Fra nk , I
need your he l p .
What can I do?
I
have to work
fo r
t hese people ' '
and
she
named
the peop le which
I
d o n ' t
t h i nk I should go ahead and ment ion , I p r e f e r t h a t sh
name them,
"and
t h i s o t h e r group
of people
and t h i s
o t h e r
group o f peop l e , and it seems
t h a t
they c a n ' t d
any th ing
to he lp me p r o t e c t
myse l f a g a i n s t
t h i s pa r t y
and
I 'm
a f r a i d .
;
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 28/119
I says ,
Well , t e l l you what I ll do" .
So, I went to New York - - now, t h i s i s befo re Mar i t a
had
made
t he se accusa t ions
in the pape r , I 'm
go ing
back to when she
had
a l l t he se problems - - I went to
New
York
a t one
t ime
to do something
on
bus ines s and
I n a t u r a l l y s topped in
to
see he r and I
took
a t ape
conve r sa t ion of Ma r i t a
Lorens ,
between her
and
myse l f
a t the h o te l
where
I was s tay ing a t , and I t u rned
t h i
t ape
over
t o t he Cen t ra l I n t e l l i g e n c e Commit tee .
Thi
i s
Senators
Bake r ' s ,
of
Cent ra l
I n t e l l i g e n c e
Commit-
t e e .
I
tu rned
it
over
to him
which t hey may
have it, they have it
documented,
and
I , a l s o ,
asked
him - - now, when I was with Mar i ta t h a t
day and she
t o l d
m
t he s to ry
and I
t aped
t h i s
c o n v e r s a t i o n about
the problems
t ha t
she was having by t h i s
man h e re ,
t h i s
man t h a t was th rea ten ing he r ,
because she had
some documents
in her
posses s ion
which
she t u r n e d
over
to me,
and
I
immedia te ly
f l ew to
Washington,
D.
c. and
t u rned
them over
to the
Sec re t Serv ice I n t e l -
l i gence
Committee.
These
a r e
documents
o f
a
f o r e i g n
i n t e l l i g e n c e
mat t e r
(At t h i s po in t t he r e was an
i n t e r r u p -
t i o n o f t r a f f i c
n o i s e s
and
c o n v e r s a t i o
between
the
defendan t and h is
counse l .
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 29/119
THE DEPONENT:
Now I to ld her - - I
c a l l e d from her t e l ephone - - which should
be
a
r eco rd
of
- - I c a l l e d
Sena t o r
Baker s
o f f i c e
and
spoke to
Mr. Howard
Levinwor th
(phonet i c )
and
exp l a i ned to
him
howcome t h i s
g i r l here
had worked fo r t h e s e , you
know
f e d e ra l o rg a n i z a t i o n s and, because
of
w h a t s
happen-
ing ,
pe r t a i n i ng
to what
documents
I had t h a t I was
going
to
t u rn
over to them,
why
t hey wo u l dn t g ive
h
pro tec t ion?
Fine , he says ,
Frank,
a re you
coming
t h i s
way?
' 'Yes,
I m
l e a v in g ,
I m
coming
down
to se
Y ll
•
Well , I
t u rned over a l l of t h i s
s t u f f
to
Helen
Levinworth
(phonet i c ) with the
hope
t h a t
th
Senate I n t e l l i gence
Commit tee
would he lp pu t a
guard
on
her to pr o t ec t
her aga i ns t the
t h r e a t s she was
ge t t i ng , a g a in s t t h i s man whom she shot - - no t t h a t
she missed - -
t h a t
she sho t .
Q
Let
me j u s t ask you one q u e s t i o n
here
be fo re we go any f u r t h e r .
MR.
RUBIN:
Wait
a
minute .
I
would
l i k e him to
comple te
h is answer be fo re - -
MR. FRIEDMAN:
I was
wonder ing
how A.
J .
Weberman
consp i red w i th o t h e r s .
MR. RUBIN:
Well , he
i s
l ead ing up to
29
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 30/119
t h a t , I m su re .
MR FRI ED: IAN:
Fi ne .
T h a t s
squared
away.
I
apologize
for
i n t e r r u p t i n g .
THE
DEPONENT: Because ,
you know,
a l l
the t h r e a t s
t h a t
she was c la iming
and so f o r t h , I m
t r y i ng
to ge t up to
the
th ing .
Now, what happened
a f t e r t h a t ,
between
the Senate
I n t e l l i g e n c e Committee,
by t r y i ng t o o b t a i
pr o t ec t i on , you know, for Mar i ta Lorens ,
i s
between
them because I immedia te ly
d i s a s s oc i a t ed
myse l f ,
be
cause
I
n a t u r a l l y f e l t
t
pe r ta ined to n a t i o n a l secu
r i t y bus i ness t h a t she , you know,
was
i nvo l ved
i n .
Now,
t h i s i s
what I wanted
to
c l e a r up
on anyth ing t h a t she has s t a t ed pe r t a i n i ng to me abou
the
t h r e a t s ,
t ha t t he
b u l l e t
hole t h a t was,
you
know,
in t h e r e , in her
window,
in
her bedroom and
so
f o r t h ,
I wanted to c l e a r t h a t
up; p l us
the f ac t t h a t Mar i t a
had a number of t imes cal led my a t t o rn e y in Miami,
F l o r i da , asking for me and fo r my he lp in t r y i n g
to
he lp her
with a l l t he problems t ha t she d id have .
Now,
here
we
go
over
a
p e r i o d
o f
t ime
w e l l , I h a v e n t been up to New York o r any th ing
l i k e
t h a t - - then t h i s t h ing comes
out
in t he
paper
and I
spoke
to Mari ta and I t o ld her
why,
and so f o r t h , and
what happened, and she mainta ined
to
me and
she
did
3 0
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 31/119
mention to me i n conve r sa t ion t h a t Weberman was
one
o f
the pe rsons
t h a t
was
behind t he p re s su re
t ha t she
had
a f t e r
she put
a l l
the
s t u f f in t he
paper .
And,
sa id ,
Well ,
who
a re t he
o th e r
people? She
says ,
I c a n ' t
t ll
you a t t he presen t
t ime , bu t ge t back with
me .
Fi ne .
immedia te ly
- -
now,
when
c a l l e d he r , remember,
Gaeton
Fonz i
knew o f
eve ry
phone
c a l l
t ha t
had made
with
Mar i t a ,
because
would no t
t a lk to Mar i ta
un le s s Fonzi knew
t h a t was speaking
to
Mari ta .
Then a
s e r i e s
o f c a l l s aga in , ano the r
c a l l ,
and
t r i e d
to
go
ahead
and
aga in a sk
M a r i t a ,
' 'Mar i ta , howcome, you know, why
d o n ' t
you t ll me,
because
a t
the
p re s e n t
t ime
am
no t
f i n a n c i a l l y
a b l e
to come
up
to
New
York;
why d o n ' t
you t ll me, you
know,
because the peop le have been
She says ,
Well , I 'm sca red I 'm going
to
be subpoenaed .
So, says , ' 'You d o n ' t have to
be
scared
because Fonzi
t o l d me
you ' r e no t
going to be
subpoenaed any
p la c e , so
d o n ' t be worr i ed about
any
subpoena ' ' , you know.
She
says , Well , you know t he peop le on
the
book' '
and I 'm not sure whether
she
meant
Coup
d 'Eta t · •
o r not ;
but
she says ,
YO'.l
know the peop le
31
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 32/119
in t he book
were behind
me and
I 'm
g e t t i n g a
l o t
o f
p r e s s u r e .
Wel l I 'm s u re a
l o t
of t he p r e s s u r e
i s , from
what
she sa id
we l l ,
I d o n ' t know I c a n ' t
pu t t h a t
in her l i n e s ,
so I c a n ' t go
i n to t h a t .
Anyway
t h i s i s t h e t h i n g s t h a t
she
ha
t o l d
me abou t p a r t o f t he
p r e s s u r e s and
she
wanted
me
to
come
to New York and she s a y s , I f you d o n ' t have
t he funds
to
come up
here ,
I can come t h e r e o r meet
you
ha l fway ,
o r
I ll
tell
you
what
I ll
do:
I ll sen
you a pre pa id t i c k e t
and
you
come up
here
to
New York
and I ll tell you t he
whole
s t o r y .
I ll
tell
you
e v e r y t h i n g , who t he p re s s u re , t he pe op le ,
who t h e
peop le
a re behind
me in
p u t t i n g all
t h i s s t u f f
in
t he
newspapers .
Fine . So
t h e r e ,
t h i nk it
was t he
I
went up to
New
York.
I
g
3 1 s t , which was Hal low-een
Day. c a l l e d
her
MR
RUB
I l:
The 3 1 s t o f what?
THE DEPONENT:
O c t o b e r .
I went o v e r
t
a f r i e n d of m ine ' s
house ,
Frank Nelson ,
and
I c a l l e d
Ma r i t a
and
in
t a l k i n g with
M a r i t a ,
she s a y s , Well ,
I 'm go ing to
be
busy , c a l l me
l a t e r .
F i n e .
Now
whi le was
t h e r e
a t
Frank
N e l s o n
a pa r tm e n t ,
Jack Anderson c a l l e d
me
from Washington,
32
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 33/119
a .
c .
e
says , Frankie , w h a t r e
you doing in
New
York?
blah , b lah ,
b lah .
Evident ly he m u s t v e ca l l ed
my home and my wife
must ve
to ld him I was in New
York.
York.
This
i s
how he knew
where
to c o n t a c t
me
in
New
so I t o l d him I was up to see Mar i ta
because I spoke with seve ra l people
in
Washington
p e r t a in in g
to
t r y in g
to he lp Mar i ta in her
p a s t
problems.
And, ano t he r person who c a l l e d me from
Washington,
whom I saw
t h a t
day ,
was
a pe r s on
from
Midnight newspaper ,
Midnight
Globe, I b e l i e v e it was;
Malcolm Abrams, ano t he r person I spoke
w i th t h a t
day,
and he came
over
to me.
Another
person
t ha t
I
spoke
wi t h
t h a t
day
to l e t him know
t ha t
I was
in
town was Ste ve
Dunlevy (phone t i c ) .
L e t s see .
Who e l se?
And, I
b e l i e v e ,
Paul
Mesk i l l , I be l ieve I c a l l e d him to
l e t
him know,
a l s o
t ha t
I was t h e r e .
And befo re I
left
n a t u r a l l y Gaeton
Ponzi
knew I
was
coming to New York to speak
wi t h
Mari ta upon her
own r eques t , with
her sending me a
t i c k e t to
t a lk
with
he r .
So, anyway, I
be l i eve
I spoke to Mari ta
J
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 34/119
aga in t ha t
a f t e rnoon and t ha t n igh t
she
t o ld me to
come
over .
So
when
I
went over t ha t evening ,
I
g
the re
around
11:00 , 11 :30 ,
I
knocked
on
the door , th
door
opened and here a re
two
men with drawn guns
poin ted
a t
me and s a id , Who a re you?
Well , I got a little sca red , you
know
I
was
conce rned . I thought poss ib ly the se two peopl
were
pa r t of the people
who
had been ha ra s s ing Mari t
I
says ,
My name i s
Frank
S t u r g i s " .
They
s a id ,
Are you c a r ry in g a piece?
I says , No, I
d o n ' t ca r r y
a
weapon .
He says , Well ,
come
i n " .
we
came in - -
r a t h e r , I
came
in
- - an
immediate ly
they shook
m down the b e s t t hey
cou ld ,
with the guns po in t ing a t
me.
They says ,
' 'We're d e -
t e c t i ve s from the
New
York Po l ice Depar tment .
You' r
under
a r r e s t " .
I sa id ,
Under
a r r e s t For what?
They
sa id ,
"We' l l
tell you abou t it
ome on in .
so they
took me in and I d i d n ' t see
nobody
the re
but the two d e t e c t i v e s
Q Let m i n t e r r u p t you
one
moment.
A
Yes.
___________
34
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 35/119
Q You have
accused
A.
J . Weberman, t he
a u thor
o f
t he book, a
man
who has never been accused
of a cr ime o f v io lence , o f c o n s p i r i n g
to
kill you, o r
a t
l e a s t
Mr.
Rubin has
in
an Amended Compla in t .
I would l i k e
to
know what a c t , a c t i v i t
though , deed o r
o t he rwi se Mr.
Weberman commi t t ed in
t he f u r t h e r a n c e o f t h a t
a l l e g e d
c ons p i r a c y?
A You have
no t let
me f i n i s h .
Q
Cont inue .
A
p
to
t h a t
p o i n t t h e r e
I
d i d n ' t
know
t h a t
my life
was
i n j e opa rdy . Now I w i l l
tell you
what t he p o l i c e o f f i c e r s t o l d me.
I
came in .
I
had
to
t a ke e v e r y t h i n g
ou t o f my poc ke t s .
They
looked
t h rough my
b r i e f c a s e
so f o r t h . Sat
down.
I a s ke d , if
I 'm
a r r e s t e d ,
what
t h e c h a rg e s were? Well , w e ' l l go ahead and tell you
when we g e t down
to
t he p o l i c e s t a t io n .
' 'Now, Frank ,
y o u ' r e gonna have
to
t han
us because
we
saved
your life .
' 'You saved my l i f e ?
Why?
Do
you
know
t h a t
M a r i ta ' s
d a u g h t e r
w
o u t s i d e t h i s p la c e wi th
a
sho tgun r e a d y
to kill you?
I says , I d o n ' t b e l i e v e
it .
They says , ' 'Well , y e s , because
M a r i t a
c a l l e d us' '
- -
l i s t e n to t h i s now - -
and
t o l d us t h a
35
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 36/119
. · ·
· ~ ·
her
da ugh te r
was
downs ta i r s
with a sho tgun
w i t ing
k i l l
you,
Frank S t u r g i s ,
when
you walked in h e r e .
So when
we
go t t h i s c a l l from Mar i ta Lorens , we we
down
and a r r e s t e d
her daugh t e r .
Now
t he
s t o r i e
changes
around as we go
a l ong ,
from
t he
p o l i c e off
ce r s .
Q In o t h e r words ,
t he
p o l i c e o f f i c e r s
t he
v e r s i o n
t h e y
t o ld you?
A
Well , no , because
l a t e r
on
it
was
supposed ly t h a t the k id was a r r e s t e d w i th
a
2 2 -c a l
p i s t o l on her .
so if
t he
p o l i c e
o f f i c e r s a r r e s t e d
her da ugh te r
wi th a
sho tgun , howcome t he d a u g h t e r
a r r e s t e d
with a 2 2 - c a l i b r e
p i s t o l ?
be l y i n g t h e r e , you know.
Somebody s
g o t
Q Again , cou ld you be s p e c i f i c
a bou t
Mr. Weberman
d id in h i s a t t e m pt
to kill
you , o r c o
sp i racy?
A
Well , I 'm
t e l l i n g
you t h e s t o r y a b o
Mari ta , what she
t o l d
me t h a t some of
t he
pe op le
t
was beh ind h e r , t he
p r e s s u r e s
t h a t she
had
beh ind
in making the s to ry which l ed up t o he r
d a u g h t e r
a c t u a l l y be ing a r r e s t e d
fo r being o u t s id e
h e r a p a
ment
with a
2 2 -c a l i b r e
p i s t o l ,
can you
t ll
me? c
no t a l awyer .
I ' d l i k e to know these t h i n g s .
Q o
you
have
any ev idence o f t h e s e
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 37/119
·
a l l ega t i ons
o the r
than the t ape r eco rded conversa t i on
with Mar i ta Lorens?
A r d o n t have a
t ape
r eco rd ing a s
ev idence
of Mari ta Lorens .
She
has ,
whatever
she
has .
Q You
sa id
you j u s t gave t he
t ape
to
B a k e r s Commit tee?
A No, I gave two t apes to
Sena t o r
Baker s
Committee p e r t a in in g
t o . The
t ape
i s
in ques t ion
about
her
and
I .
Q
L e t s
t r y aga in .
You have accused
t h i s
man
with a s p e c i f i c word do you
unders tand
what t he
p l ead i ngs Mr. Rubin f i l e d ?
A r have no t accused Mr. Weberman o f
any-
th ing .
Q
Well ,
Mr.
Hunt s
a t t o rn e y ,
Mr.
Rubin , w
i s
a l so your
a t t o rn e y ,
accuses Mr. Weberman
o f the
fo l l ow ing words:
A Can you show m where t h a t i s ?
Q It s Paragraph 14.
A Reads Paragraph
14
o f t he
Compla in t . )
Q He i s supposed to be d e p r iv in g Hunt o f
a wi t ness
in h i s
trial
by consp i r ing
with
Mar i t a
Loren
to pay for your
t r i p
to New York;
okay?
Now where you were f a l s e l y a r r e s t e d an
where
Monica Mari ta Lorens , t he daugh t e r o f Mar i t a
---- --
37
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 38/119
Lorens i s runn ing
around with a gun t r y in g
to
k i l l
you.
What did Weberman do to
t r y
to h u r t
you?
A
Let m go
ahead and
say
t h i s
- -
let s
ge t
back
to the
s t a t emen t :
to consp i r e with one Mar i t a
Lorens to
i nduce
in paper
Now, I d o n t know
whe the r
Weberman gav
her
money
to
go
ahead
and
- -
a l l
I
know
i s
t h a t
Mari t
Lorens
sen t
m a
prepa id
t i c k e t .
Now where
she
got
t ha t
money
I
d o n t
know.
Q
o you have any ev idence t h a t t h i s man
conspi red to
v io l a t e
the
r i gh t s
o f E. Howard Hunt by
consp i r i ng to do away with you o r o the rwise keep you
from t e s t i f y i n g as a witness in Mr. H u n t s d e f e n s e ?
o
you have any evidence t h a t
Mr.
Weberman t h i s
gent leman
r i g h t here , did a n y t h i n g o f
t ha t
na t u re o r r e g a rd l e s s
- -
Paragraph 14 o f Mr.
Rubin s Compla in t?
A The on ly t h i ng I can say i s t h a t
Mari t
Lorens t o ld m
on
the t e lephone t h a t Weberman was
be-
hind
the
p r e s s u r e s in doing what she
had
done , you
know; t h a t s the only t h ing I know-
Q o you have any
t ape
reco rd ings with a
conversa t i on
with
Mari ta Lorens
where in she i n d i c a t e s
th a t
~ r
Weberman
put
her up
to
it
o r
put pres su re on
her
to do t hese e v i l deeds?
3
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 39/119
A No, I d o n ' t have.
Q o you
have any evidence
t h a t Mr.
weberman conspi red with Mar i ta Lorens on or be fo re
October
31s t ,
1977,
to
do
t he se th ings?
A
Only
what
Mari ta to ld me.
Q
Did
you consu l t
with
Mr. Rubin p r i o r to
the f i l i n g o f
t h i s
p a r t i c u l a r Amended Compla in t ,
which
was
about
a month ago?
A
Mr. Rubin has been aware of
my
a c t i v i -
t i e s
in
New York
because ,
you know, I have a New York
a t t o rn e y
who handled me
up t he r e .
N a tu ra l l y ,
when
I
r e tu rned here to Miami, Mr. Rubin - - in f a c t ,
he
i s
my
Miami a t t o rn e y - - I t o l d him what
happened
In New York
conce rn ing
Mari ta , and so fo r th .
Q
Did
you t ake a l i e d e t e c t o r t e s t about
these problems
with
Mari ta Lorens in New York?
A
Everyth ing p e r t a i n i n g to the a s s a s -
s ina t i on , conspi racy ,
whether
I
was
in Dal l a s t h a t
day,
whether
I was a gunman, whether I
was
in a
c on-
sp i racy to k i l l
Pres iden t
Kennedy, whether or no t
Mari ta
Lorens
was,
with
the
accusa t ions
she
made,
whether
she was
t e l l i n g
the t r u t h
or no t .
I passed t
100
- -
Q Could I ask you - -
I
passed
t
100 .
39
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 40/119
Q
Could I ask
you
to make t h a t a v a i l a b l e
to us ,
the
r e s u l t s o f
t h a t l i e
d e t e c t o r t e s t ?
I would have to c o n t a c t my New York
a t t o r n e y
and
t ll
him.
As
f a r
as I m
c o n c e r n e d ,
I
ca
f ind no
problem.
Q
o you
posses s
any
i n f o r m a t i o n
on
t he
fo l lowing
people a r e
agen t s
o f any fo r e ign government
t o - w i t :
Abbey
Hoffman
Dick
Gregory
Mort Sah l
Sena to r
McGovern
Congressman Henry
Gonzalez
Joseph Okpaku ( the p u b l i s h e r
P h i l i p Agee
o f t h i s
book
o you
have
any i n fo rma t ion t h a t any o f t he s e p e o p l e
a re
fo re ign agen t s ?
No.
Q o you know o f any o t h e r
a s s a s s i n a t i o n
p l o t s Mr. Weberman was
invo lved
in
t h a t
would
a f f e c t
you,
o the r
t han t he
one j u s t
spoken
of?
No.
Q o you remember a photo t aken on J anua r
15,
1959,
by
UPI,
I
assume
in
Cuba, where
you
were
s t and ing
on top o f
a
mass ive gra ve o f s i x t y B a t i s t i a -
nos who had
been
execu t ed by C as t r o?
R igh t .
Q Could
you
e x p l a i n why
you posed
fo r
40
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 41/119
p a r t i c u l a r
photograph?
Yes.
Andrew St .
George,
who
was
a
r epo r t e r -pho tog raphe r
- - I d o n ' t
know
a t t h a t
t ime
who he
worked for
- - but I
had
a t r a i n i n g camp
r i g h t
ou t s ide of San t i ago , and when I
came
i n to town I
b e-
l i e v e Andrew St . George
met
me a t
the
Casa Grande
Hote l and he asked
me
i f the re was
t he
p o s s i b i l i t y
because h is
i n fo rma t i on was t h a t
Raul
Cas t ro was
execut ing
some p r i s o n e r s
- -
and he asked
me
whether
o r not
I
cou ld ge t p o s i t i o n for
him to
wi tness and
pho tograph ,
you know, the
e x e c u t i o n .
I
sa id ,
Well , I d o n ' t know; bu t I ll
go ahead and t r y and see i f I
can
ge t you t h a t p e r -
r ss o
So, what happened
i s
t h a t , I d o n ' t
remember which
commander
f r i e n d o f
mine
I went to
see
but he says ,
Yes,
c e r t a i n l y . o up and see .
Theres
no more
execu t ions ,
t h e y ' r e
all
f i n i s hed ; bu t I ll
send
an o f f i c e r
with
you
and I ll
show
you
where
the
execu t i ons were a t .
So I took Andrew St . George wi t h
t h i s
o f f i c e r and mysel
to t he
s i t e
where t he
execu t ions ,
you
know, were, or
did
happen, and
Andrew
says , Look
; ~ · ~ e an American, I ' d l i k e you to go ahead and
t ake
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 42/119
So I
says , f i ne ,
I see no problem
t h e r e .
And
t h i s i s how Andrew S t . George took
me,
t ook
a
p i c t u r e of
me s t a n d i n g
over t he g ra v e s
o f
t h e s
X
amount
o f peop le who
were e xe c u te d .
Q
Did
you t r a v e l from Miami to D a l l a s ,
Texas ,
in 1963, by au tomobi l e wi th a
s e t
o f
o l d
c l o t h e s i n t he back s e a t ?
o November, 1963?
With a s e t o f o l d
c l o t h e s
i n t he
back
s e a t ?
No.
Let
me
add someth ing
t h e r e .
L e t s
fac
it.
I d o n t know what i s in M a r it a s mind; b u t I d id
f i nd
o u t whi le
I was
up in
New York,
a f t e r
I
g o t
ou t
o f jail,
t h a t Mari t a
was
in
t he
proc e s s
o f do ing a
book.
She was ,
a l s o , i n t he
p r o c e s s
o f do ing
a
movie
and
she
r ece i ved
s e v e ra l t housands
o f d o l l a r
in advance
and t he
peop le who
were su p p o se d l y
go ing
to
be
doing t he book, going
to
be
t he
w r i t e r s o f
t he
book
- -
which she t o l d me - - was Paul
Mesk i l l
and he
sa id t h i s ,
to
me, q u o t e : As soon as
I
found o u t
t h
Weberman has been in t ouch and has been a s s o c i a t e d
w i t h
Mar i t a Lorens , I c a l l e d my
a g e n t and s a y s ,
I
w i l l no t be t he w r i t e r o f her b o o k . This i s what
Paul Me s k i l l
t o l d me.
Q Are you
aware
t h a t Ma r i t a Lorens
t e s t i
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 43/119
-
f ied in New York under oa t h t ha t you
were in
f a c t
involved in a
p lo t
- -
or
a t
l e a s t a consp i r acy - -
with
a group
of
people to t r a v e l f rom Miami t o Da l l a s?
A
Well , she
made those
s t a t emen t s
on
t e l e v i s ion
and in the newspapers .
Q She
a l s o
made them under oa th in f r o n t
o f a f e e r ~ l cour t r e p o r t e r .
A Let
her
t ake a po lygra ph .
MR
RUBIN: And
we
i n t end t o
seek con-
tempt
c i t a t i o n
befo re t he
Fede ra l
Judge
fo r t hose
s t a t emen t s
and
I am p u t t i n g
it
on the
r eco rd
r i g h t now
THE
DEPONENT:
Let
me
say t h i s , a l s o
MR RUBIN:
Frank, t h a t s
enough.
T h a t s enough.
Q
By Mr. Fr iedman
Did
the
D a l l a s
Pol i ce
Department i n t e r r o g a t e you on
November 22,
Never .
19 6 3
Q
Were you w i th Howard Hunt
on
November
2 2
1963?
I d o n t r e c a l l .
No.
Q
Yes
r No
?
A No.
I f I d o n t r e c a l l ,
why
s hou ld I
s y Yes
or No
?
I d o n t
r e c a l l
it.
Q Were you involved in a
c o n s p i r a c y
to
k i l l
Pres iden t Kennedy?
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 44/119
A
Never in my l i f e . That i s p a r t o f the
polygraph .
The
Uni ted
S ta t e s Government knows where
I was on November 22
1963.
They
know
where
Lee
Harvey Oswald was th ree weeks to the day o f
t he
a s s a s s i n a t i o n , working a t
the
book depos i to ry .
There
i s wi tnesses t h a t knew h i s whereabouts every day
t h r e
weeks
be fo re .
As
f a r
as I 'm conce rned ,
I d o n ' t see
how in the
he l l Lee
Harvey
Oswald
could
be
in
Miami
r i d in g
with
Mari ta Lorens
to
D a l l a s , Texas , who she
c a l l s Oswald
i s
t he b igges t f a b r i c a t i o n o f a l i e sh
ever
sa id
in
her l i f e .
I
d o n ' t know
how
she could do it.
Le
her
take
a
polygraph .
Q Would you mind i f t h i s
t ape i s
s ubm i t
t ed
for ana l ys i s v ia psycho log ica l s t r e s s eva lua t ion
Cer ta in ly
Don ' t
mind it a t
a l l
Th
United
S t a t e s
Government has a l l t h i s i n fo rma t ion
fo
yea r s .
MR
RUBIN:
What t ape?
MR FRIEDMAN:
The t ape o f t h i s
conve rsa t ion .
MR
RUBIN:
This t ape
i s no t
p a r t o f
t h i s d e p o s i t i o n ,
to
my knowledge .
There
i s
an o f f i c i a l c o u r t r e p o r t e r
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 45/119
- - - -
here and
the
purpose o f
her t ape r eco rde r
i s
i f sh
i s ope ra t ing
one - -
i s
to
back
up
her
notes and
t h a t s
it.
Any
o t h e r use
of t hose - -
MR. FRIEDMAN:
You
o b je c t to t he use o
t h i s
tape?
MR RUBIN:
I am a t t o rn e y fo r Howard
Hunt here .
I am,
a l s o
a t t o rn e y for
Frank S t u r g i s on
o the r
mat te r s .
It i s
improper
to
use
any t ape
r e c o r d
ing
o f a depos i t i on fo r
any t h i ng
o t h e r
than to
r e c o r d
on
paper what was s a i d .
MR
FRIEDMAN:
w i l l ge t it p a s t the judge .
I f you
ob j ec t to
it we
11R RUBIN:
You b e t t e r ask t he
judge .
I
ob j ec t .
Q (By 11r. Friedman)
Do
you
remember
the
name of
the
movie
company where in Mari ta
Lorens
was
o f f e r e d
thousands o f d o l l a r s
fo r
her s e rv i c e s ?
A was t o l d by
11r. Arbenz up
in New
York. As a
mat t e r
o f f a c t he
wanted
me to
s i gn
a
r e l e a s e which r e f u s e d
p e r t a i n i n g to Ma r i t a
Lorens
a manusc r ip t or something
Mari ta
Lorens gave him o r
h a s .
r e fused to s i gn a
r e l e a s e
no t
knowing
what
.VOuld b e i n it.
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 46/119
Q Did you
know
Howard Hunt in 1963?
L e t
me
say
t h i s here .
I
have worked
in
the
i n t e l l i g e n c e f i e l d
o f f
and
on for yea r s
and
t he re
i s compar tmen ta t ion w i th peop le t h a t you work
w i t h
d i r e c t l y .
I
d o n t r e c a l l e v e r meet ing E. Howard
Hunt
p e r s o n a l l y .
I d o n t
r e c a l l meet ing Howard Hunt .
Q In 1963?
In 1963.
The
o n l y
t h i ng
t h a t
I
r e c a l l
and I m no t even s u re --
and
t h i s i s on
r e c o r d w i t h
t he Sena te Waterga te Commit tee t h a t t h e r e i s a
p o s s i b i l i t y t h a t I migh t have run a c r o s s Howard
in
1971, but fo r s u re in 7 2 , because of Wa te rga t e , t h a t
I had d i r e c t c o n t a c t w i t h Howard. And that s t h e
on ly t h i ng I r e c a l l
p e r t a i n i n g
to Howard Hunt .
Q Did you e ve r t a ke Mari t a
Lorens
to a
Safe House where Howard
Hunt
was
p r e s e n t ?
In 1963?
Never Never in my life o r h e r s .
i ' iever.
Q Did
you
e ve r g i v e
M a r i t a Lorens
t he
address
544 Camp S t r e e t , New O r l e a n s?
Never .
Q
I
submi t to
you,
sir,
a
copy
which
i s
no t an o f f i c i a l copy
o f a
d e p o s i t i o n
t h a t i s in t he
proc e s s of being
typed
and t h i s would
be
Ma r i t a Loren
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 47/119
Te l l
me whether
o r
not
y u o b j e c t to
the p re s e n t a t i o n of t h i s to r e f r e s h
your
r e c o l l e c t i o n
and ask
you whether or no t E. Howard
Hunt
544 camp
S t r e e t , which appea rs t he r e i n , was the
name
and
address
g iven
by you to Mar i ta
Lorens
as
she
t e s t i f i e
under
oa th?
She could go ahead
and copy t h a t
ou t o
any book.
Q
o
you
deny
g i v i ng
her
t h a t
address?
Beg pardon?
I
deny
ever g iv ing
her
t ha t ; c e r t a i n l y .
Q What was the name you were
born
with?
Frank Angelo F i o r i n i , F - i - o - r - i - n - i .
Q Was
t ha t
your f a t h e r s name?
No
t ha t was
my
g r a n d f a t h e r s
name.
My
f a t h e r s
name was Angelo Anthony F i o r i n i .
Q What name
did
you
use as
your
name
dur ing
your
l i f e ?
A
I have used a
number
of names.
My
nam
was l e g a l l y changed th rough the
c o u r t s
when my mother
remarr i ed
a S tu rg i s
and
n a t u r a l l y , my name
was
l e g a
ly changed
in N or fo lk ,
V i r g i n i a ,
from
- - it s
r e c o rde
in
the c o u r t s
it was changed from
Frank
Angelo
F i o r i n i to Frank
J
While
you
were
a young man?
.
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 48/119
~
----
A
Yes.
Q
Did
you
eve r
work
as
a
bar t ende r?
A
Oh
yes , s i r .
Q
Did you
eve r
work as
a
s o l d i e r
o f
for tune?
A what do you c l a s s s o ld i e r o f fo r tune
Q A mercenary?
A No I never have been a
mercenary
in
my l i f e .
I have worked over a per i od
o f yea r s
wi t h
I s r a e l i I n t e l l i g e n c e
in
Europe. All r i gh t ? Over a
per iod of yea rs , because o f my sympath ies w i th a youn
l ady t ha t I met when I was with Arnold S e c u r i t y
Agenc
when
I
was
se rv i ng with the
Uni t ed
S t a t e s
Army.
I
have
by
the
way
t h r ee
Honorable
Discharges ;
and
- -
MR
RUBIN:
From what se rv ice?
THE DEPONENT:
Of the
Uni t ed
S t a t e s
Marine Corp Uni ted
S t a t e s
Navy and
Uni t ed
S t a t e s
Army.
And
then , a f t e r t he war
was
o v e r , t he
second
World
War
was
over
wi t h ,
I
met
a
Cuban
l ady
marr ied in to my fami ly which got me c l o s e l y
a s s o c i a t e
with the Cuban e x i l e s in t h a t
p a r t i c u l a r
t i me , going
back
many years ago, aga i ns t B a t i s t a .
And
because
my sympath ies a re aga i ns t
48
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 49/119
I
I
I
I
I
I
Right
Wing d i c t a t o r s h i p s and, a l so , Lef t Wing d i c t a t o r
\
s h i p s ,
I
got
invo lved
in
the Cuban
underground which
even tua l ly
I went
to Cuba,
j o i n i n g t he
Cast ro
fo rces .
At the same
t ime , whi le
I was
in
Cuba, I
was r e c r u i t e d
by t he s t a t i o n ,
CIA s t a t i o n
c h i e f in Sant iago
de Cuba
to
spy fo r the Uni ted
S t a t e s Government .
(All
t h roughou t t he d e p o s i t i o n
Mr.
Weberman,
one
o f
t he
defendan ts
in
t h i s
l a w s u i t ,
kep t i n s t r u c t i n g
h i s
a t to rney
on t he que s t i ons he
wanted
to be asked of the deponen t . )
MR
RUBIN:
I have no o b j e c t i o n
if you
want
to
a s s o c i a t e Mr. Weberman
as co-counse l and let
him ask h i s ques t ions
and
let s
g e t
it
over
wi th .
Q
(By
Mr.
Friedman)
Do
you
remember
t he
occupa t ions you
main ta ined
between 1940
and 1950?
A
1940 tO I 50?
Oh, my goodness
I
40
tO
50?
Yes,
I
was in
the
s e rv i c e w i th t h ree
Honorable
Discharges du r ing this
approximate per iod o f t i m e .
Q Do you c ons i de r yourse l f o r hold your -
s e l f ou t
as
a
gambler?
A
I am not a
gambler .
I
d o n t
gamble
and I d o n t dr i nk .
Would you
b e l i e v e ,
I m a t e e -
t o t a l e r ?
I d o n t dr i nk be e r .
Would
y u b e l i e v e t h a t
I m I t a l i a n and I
d o n t
d
r i n
k wine?
-----
----- ---- -------------------------
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 50/119
You
know,
and
if I hadn t marr i ed t h i s
young
l ady in Europe who, my as soc ia t ion wi t h
her i s
r e a l l y i n t e l l i g e n c e ,
I probably
would
have
been an
I t a l i a n Jew. Who knows?
But ,
I
d o n t gamble.
d o n t gamble
and d o n t dr i nk . smoke qu i t e a
b i t .
Q Did
Howard
Hunt
give names,
code names
to persons du r i ng
the Watergate?
A
had seve ra l
code
names.
One
of
them
Edward Hamil ton. d o n t th ink
look
l i k e a
Hamil to
but t ha t was one o f my code names.
Q Do
you
remember r ead i ng a
book
by
Howard Hunt known o f a s
Bimini Run ?
A have never read
t h a t book,
UT
someo
did
d iscus s
t h i s
book
with
me.
As
a
mat te r o f
f a c t ,
dur i ng the Watergate i n v e s t i g a t i o n ,
was ques t ioned
about
t ha t book.
about .
was
ques t ioned .
T h a t s how
it
ca
Q This cha r ac t e r
in t h a t book, known
as
Hank S t u r g i s , who
seems
to
fo l l ow
your
own
h i s t o r y
to
a
gre a t ex t en t .
A
Ri gh t .
My wife t h in k s t h a t , too .
I
could be you.
Q Do you b e l i e v e
t h a t
Mr. Hunt
modeled
hi s book
a f t e r your
exp l o i t s ?
---- -------------------
50
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 51/119
- · - - - - -
I d o n t see how he
could .
He
d i d n t
know
me
a t
the t ime,
a t t h a t p a r t i c u l a r t ime
when
he
wrote
the book. I d o n t know when he
wrote t he
book.
Q o you remember
speaking
to
Andrew
St .
George aboU:
the
Bay
o f Pigs7
A
Oh
t h a t s so many yea r s ago.
It s
pos s i b l e .
It s p o s s ib l e I spoke
with him.
Q Did you
a r range fo r
t r a i n i n g bases
in
Guatemala for the
2506 Brigade?
A I
went
to Guatemala w i th
Diaz
Lanz to
speak with the p re s id e n t about
bases
in Guatemala . I
was
t he re p e r s o n a l l y ;
yes .
Q
o you
remember
t e l l i n g Andrew St .
George t h a t you worked wi th Howard
Hunt
on
t he
Bay of
Pigs Invas ion?
A Andrew may ge t h i s th ings a
little
b i t
mixed up. Now
unders tand
one t h in g :
Before
t he Bay
of
Pigs Invas ion , I was working in a d i f f e r e n t
s ec t o r
because E. Howard Hunt was a p o l i t i c a l
o f f i c e r
and I
was
not
a s s o c i a t e d
with
the
p o l i t i c a l
end
of
t he Bay
of Pigs Invas ion .
Q
Did you say t h a t
to
Andrew
St . George?
A No and
i f
Andrew sa id t h a t , he
i s
ly ing .
Q And i f
Mari ta says it,
she
i s l y i ng ,
Sl
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 52/119
up w ~ And•ew oayo, then
too?
I f
she p icked
it s
not so .
MR
RUBIN:
They
a re ly ing
j u s t
l i k e
Mr.
Weberman
did in the
book.
The
whole book
i s
a li
and we w i l l prove
it
in
cour t .
MR
FRIEDMAN: All
r i g h t . L e t s go
to
trial.
MR
RUBIN:
L e t s
skp a l l
o f t he p r e l i
mi nar i e s
and
let s
g e t r i g h t
to - -
Q
By
Mr.
Fr iedman)
Do
you remember
the
A l b a n ~ n Code Mission?
~ o
At
t h i s
po i n t , t he de fendan t
Weberman
again
ke p t w h i s pe r ing
with h is counse l . )
Q
By Mr. Fr iedman)
Do you have a
p o l i t i c a l b e l i e f
t h a t
i s a n t a g o n i s t i c toward
t:fte
Right
wing d i c t a t o r s h i p s ?
A I
do not be l ieve
in Right Wing o r L e f t
Wing d i c t a t o r s h i p s .
This i s p a r t o f my
t r a i n i n g
in
t h i s
coun t ry , p a r t of
the
t r a i n i n g t h a t I
have
had
s i nce
I
was
a young
fe l low.
I
d o n t
l i k e
Right
Wing
o r Lef t Wing d i c t a t o r s h i p s .
O Yet
you
mai n t a i n a
c l o s e
r e l a t i o n s h i p
52
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 53/119
with
Mr.
Somoza
o f Nicaragua?
No,
I have not main ta ined a
c l os e r e l a
t i ons h i p .
have
met
Mr.
Somoza
once , p o s s i b l y
two
t imes
in
my life
am aga i ns t Right and L ef t Wing
d i c t a t o r s h i p s .
Both a re
in
the wrong.
They d o n t
so lve
any t h i ng fo r t he peop l e .
The
proof
of it
was
was a g a i n s t the
Right
Wing
d i c t a t o r s h i p in Cuba aga i ns t B a t i s t a , and
tu rned
aga i ns t
Cast ro
when he go t to be a Communist
d ic t a t o r .
Q o you remember
o f f e r i n g
Mar i t a Lorens
a f ree
t r i p
to England to work on
the
Angolan problem
Yes.
Q
Was
t h a t j u s t befo re she p re s s e d
cha rges aga i ns t
you?
Oh, t h a t s months, b e l i e v e months
be fo re . That
was
l a s t summer,
of
77 , when
I
was in
New York.
Q Have you accused Mr. A. J
Weberman
o f
be ing an agent of a fo re ign government?
I have never accused him o f be i ng an
agen t
o f
a
fo re ign government .
Q
Did
you eve r give a
s t o r y
to
the
~ t i o n l S t a r when the Communist Cubans
s e t
up a g i a n
4
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 54/119
Lazer Beam with the he lp
o f
the Sov ie t s
t h a t
would
some
day
be used
aga i ns t
the Uni ted S ta t e s ?
C er t a i n l y .
Q You d i d
give
them t h a t
s to ry?
Sure .
Q What was the source of
your
i n fo rma t ion
The source
o f my
in format ion?
Q
I f it may be d i s c lo s e d . I f it may n o t -
No,
it
c o u l d n t
be
d i s c l o s ed .
Q
Can you
give
me
a reason
fo r its
non-
d i s c l o s u r e , i s
it
na t i ona l s ecu r i t y or a c o n f i d e n t i a l
source?
I
would
say conf i den t i a l
s o u rc e s , b e -
cause I
am a
newspaperman.
Q
o you b e l i e v e
those
sources to
be
r e -
l i a b l e ?
I b e l i e v e them to be ve ry , v e r y reli
ab le .
Q Did
you
eve r accuse
the
Reds
fo r
f rami ng you fo r the
Kennedy
as s a s s i na t i on?
Have I eve r accused t he Reds ?
Q
To-wi t :
I assume t he Communists?
I say
t h a t
t h e r e s e lements in t h i s
coun t ry who a re t r y i ng to use me to
d iv id e t he
peop l e s t h i nking i n t h i s co un t r y and
the t r u e ~ c t s
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 55/119
-
governments ;
yes .
Q And
the government t h a t you
conspi red
to ove r throw,
in
e f f e c t
in
Guatemala
would you
l abe
t h a t
government t ha t you
s t a r t e d to over throw
a
demo
c r a t i c
government
or
a
Lef t Wing
d i c t a t o r s h i p ?
A I d o n t know what government a t
t h a t
p a r t i c u l a r
t ime was t he re .
Q The Arbenz
government .
A d o n t know.
Q That you
were c o n s p i r i n g
to over throw?
A When
was in consp i racy to go ahead
and over th row
c e r t a i n
governments a t t hose p a r t i c u l a
t imes the government knew t h a t was involved
in
t h i s
conspi racy ,
and
so
fo r th , and
knew
the
e l emen t s
s u r -
rounding
m t ha t was
involved
in
t h i s c o n s p i r a c y .
So r e a l l y c o u l d n t go
i n t o d e t a i l
whether
they
were
democra t ic governments o r what -have -
you
The government has t h a t i n fo rma t i on and would
t h ink t ha t t h i s would be c l a s s i f i e d i n fo rm a t io n .
Q Were you involved
in
Opera t i on 4 0 s
a s s a s s i n a t i o n sec t ion?
A was c l os e l y as soc ia ted with
t he
head
of Opera t ion 40.
Q Did you t ll Michael Canf i e l d
t ha t ?
A Yes.
- - - - - - - - - - - · - - - - · - -
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 56/119
Q
Did you unde r s t and t h a t Opera t ion 40
conta ined
an as sa s s i na t i on s e c t i on?
A Opera t ion
40
con s i s t s
of
a
bunch o f
Cuban o f f i c e r s
some
o f whom I have been f ami l i a r wi th
some a re
my f r i ends and t h e i r j ob
t r a i n i ng
by t he
Uni ted
S ta t e s Government
were t h i s :
When the Brigade
l anded in
Cuba
Opera t ion
40
was to
fo l low.
The o f f i -
ce rs involved in t h i s ope ra t i on were to make con t ac t
with
Cuban
e lements
i n s id e o f Cuba both
po l i t i c a l
mi l i t a r y and so f o r t h who
would
g ive a s s i s t a nc e to
the
Brigade and to
the
underground because
Opera t ion
40
was
an
i n t e l l i g enc e o rgan i z a t i on who had
t h i s con-
t a c t in Cuba.
So na t u r a l l y in
o rde r
to make
t he
i nvas ion
succe s s f u l
you had to co -o rd ina t e t he a c t i v i -
t i e s
o f the
Brigade
and a l s o
o f
t he he lp
t h a t it
could r ece ive from both the po l i t i c a l and t he mi l i t a r y
e lemen t s
t h a t were in
Cuba
to a s s i s t you
know in
the
invas ion ;
and
i f necessa ry if an a s s a s s i n a t i on had to
be pa r t o f it na t u r a l l y it
would
be pa r t o f it.
Q Did
you
tell
Michael Canf i e ld t h a t
you
were approached by
Opera t ion
40
people
to commit
a
domest ic a s s a s s in a t i on?
A
Never
Opera t ion
40
no.
Q o
you remember
the
names o f Manuel
57
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 57/119
Artfme, t he se
names
being
as soc ia ted with Opera t ion
40;
do you
remember any of
t he se people?
second.
MR WEBERMAN
Excuse
me for one
Whereupon,
the defendant Weberman con
f e r r e d
with h is
counse l . )
Q By
Mr.
Friedman) Did
you ever tell
Michael Canf i e ld t h a t you were
approached by ANYONE to
commit
a
domest ic as s a s s i na t i on?
A
Poss ib ly .
I
was
approached
by
an
agen t
of
Cent ra l
I n t e l l i g e n c e
Agency to
do
a
domest ic
a s s a s
s ina t ion
and I spoke
o f
t h i s to the
In t e l l i ge nc e
Commit tee .
Q Do you
rem
embe r whose
a s s a s s ina t ion
was
p l o t t e d
and
who
was
it
asked
yo
u
to
p lo t
i t ?
A I m s o r r y ,
I
cannot g ive you
t he
a g e n t
name.
The
gove
rnment has
the
name.
Q Or the person who was the s ub j ec t o f
the as s a s s i na t i on?
A
No,
because
the
person
d i d n t
tell me
the - -
was the person John
F
Kennedy?
A
No.
The
pa r t y
d i d n t tell me. So if
t he p
a r t y
d id n t tell me, I wouldn t know who it was.
As a mat te r o f
f a c t ,
l e t me add to
58
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 58/119
t h i s .
I d o n t
r e c a l l - - and
I
would
t ake a po lygra ph
t e s t
on t h i s
- -
I d o n t r e c a l l when t he a pproa c h
happened.
Before
o r
a f t e r 63?
I
d o n t know.
Q In your CIA t r a i n i n g ,
were
you in -
s t r u c t e d on t he use
of t he
po lygraph machine?
I have never been t r a i n e d by
C e n t r a l
I n t e l l i g e n c e Agency.
Q In any o f
your
t r a i n i n g , have
you been
i n s t r u c t e d on t h e p o l y g ra p h
machine?
F i r s t
t ime in my life I ever t o o k a
po lygraph was when I
took one v o l u n t a r i l y
in
New York
a f t e r
I
came ou t
o f
jail a f t e r
t he Ma r i t a
Lorens
a c c u s a t i o n s .
Q
Do you
remember
any o t h e r p e r s o n s
i nvo lved
in
Opera t ion 40?
I t h i nk t h a t
would
be
c l a s s i f i e d
i n f o r m a t i o n .
Q You r e f u s e
to answer t h a t
q u e s t i o n ?
No
no t t h a t I
r e f u s e
to answer t h e
q u e s t i o n
Q But a t t h i s t ime
you
r e fuse
to
answer?
I
would
c o n s i d e r
t h a t
c l a s s i f i e d
i n fo rmat i on
59
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 59/119
---------
Q o
you
remember
the fo l lowing names
a s s o c i a t e d wi th
Opera t ion
40:
Manuel Art ime?
Yes
r
No ?
A Let me
l e t
you be
aware
of
c e r t a i n
thing
because I
d o n ' t t h ink
it could be a ' 'Yes o r No
answer.
Q Are you
r e f u s i n g to
answer t h i s
q u e s t i o
on
the same b a s i s ?
A
Oh,
no.
Let me j u s t e x p l a i n someth ing
see , Manuel Art ime, be fo re the Bay o f
Pigs
In v a s io n
you
had
the
Cuban
R evo lu t iona ry C ounc i l ,
which
was the
p o l i t i c a l .
This
was what Howard
Hunt
was i nvo lved
with , the p o l i t i c a l o f f i c e r
fo r
t h a t .
Howard Hunt , I b e l i e v e , d i d n ' t have
noth ing to do wi th
Opera t ion
40, because
t h e r e
was a
CIA
o f f i c e r in
charge of t h a t , j u s t
l i k e
t h e r e was a
CIA
o f f i c e r in charge
of the Br igade .
So Howard Hunt
c o u l d n ' t have any th ing
to
do
with the Br igade its lf
or have any th ing
to do
with Opera t ion 40.
Now,
Manuel Artime was the younger , I
be l i eve ,
of
the
Cuban Revolu t ionary
Counci l
and
he wa
the
l i a i s o n
between
the p o l i t i c a l e lemen t and the
m i l i t a ry which
was, n a t u r a l l y ,
in
Cent ra l America .
And,
a g a in , because
the papers do th ing
say Manuel
Artime was
the l eaderNronq,
i s
t h a t they
-- · ·
60
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 60/119
of t he Brigade ; bu t he was no t t he l e a d e r o f t h e
Brigade , he was
l i a i s o n
o f f i c e r between
t he
Brigade
ND t he Re vo lu t iona ry Counc i l .
Ev e ry t h i n g
was CIA.
Q Righ t .
That
was
h i s p o s i t i o n .
Now
h i s a s s o -
c i a t i o n ,
if y o u r e sa y i n g a s s o c i a t i o n , because he d i d
know t he peop le in
t he
Br iga de , he d id
know
p e o p l e in
t h a t . Would t h a t a s s o c i a t i o n be p a r t o f t h a t Brigade
I
mean
t h a t ,
would t h a t answer your q u e s t i o n ?
Q
As
b e s t a s
you remember .
T h a t s
all I
can
ask .
Because I d o n t t h i n k
that s
i m p o r t a n t
Q
Do
y u remember
Bernard
Barker b e i n g
a s s o c i a t e d
with
Opera t ion 40?
Berna rd Barker
was
t he
a s s i s t a n t
to
E.
Howard
Hunt
whom we
a l l knew
as Eduardo .
Now a ga in , I d o n t b e l i e v e I e ve r met
E.
Howard
Hunt
bu t we
all
knew many
o f us
knew
Eduardo
was
t he p o l i t i c a l o f f i c e r fo r
t he
Cuban Revo-
l u t i o n a r y C o u n c i l .
Q Did you e ve r meet
Eduardo?
I d o n t
r e c a l l .
This i s
t he
t h i n g . I
d o n t r e c a l l .
Eduardo
Did
Bernard Barker
ever i n t r o d u c e you
in 1972?
Q
------·--------
61
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 61/119
A The on ly
t ime
t h a t I
was
i n t roduced t o
Hunt
and b e l i e v e , if
my
mind i s c o r r e c t r b e -
l i e v e was
i n t r o d u c e d
to
Howard
in B a r k e r s
o f f i c e .
Q
Barker p r e s e n t ?
A He
i n t r o d u c e d
me.
Q
When?
A
This
i s in 1972.
Q Did you know
Barker p r i o r to
1972?
A
Oh, s u r e .
Q When
d id
you
first meet
him?
A Back
many
y e a r s .
Q P r i o r to 1963?
A
Sure .
C e r t a in ly .
Q Did
you
know
Manuel
Art me
p r i o r to
1963?
A Sure .
Q o you remember t he name
Orlando Bosch
a s s o c i a t e d
wi th
O p e ra t i o n
40?
A I
d o n t know
whether Orlando Bosch was
a s s o c i a t e d
wi th Opera t ion
40;
no,
I d o n t .
Q
o
you
remember
t he
Novo
B r o t h e r s o r
e i t h e r of the Lanz
Bro t he r s
a s s o c i a t e d w i th Pedro
Diaz
Lanz?
A I
doub t
it
v e ry
much.
Pedro Diaz
Lanz,
Marcos
and myse l f i nc lude d were p a r t o f
a
s p e c i a l
air
a ro 1- ; l -U l .a t
-W<l-S-_;;="""4-and
1 -w; is- -a s s oc i a t e d w-i- f l-- ff ia-t._
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 62/119
- - - - - - - - - - -
a i r group because t he B-25 bomber was in
my
name,
r e -
g i s t e r ed under
a t t h a t
t ime
t
was
FAA
and t h i s
s m
B-25 bomber, which CIA was given money to was the
same
bomber on
October
21, 1959,
t h a t
f lew
over
Havana,
Cuba,
and t he p i l o t was both myse l f and Pedro
D az Lanz, Marcos D az Lanz and
ano t he r
Cuban
was
in
the bomb bay, where
we dropped hundreds o f
thousands
o f l e a f l e t s over
the Ci ty
of Havana,
accus i ng
t he
Cas t ro
Government
of be ing a Communis t ic Government .
Q o
you
remember Gerald P a t r i c k
Hemming
being
as soc ia ted with Opera t ion 40?
A No
Q
o
you remember Orlando Or te ro a s s o -
c i a t ed
with Opera t ion 40?
A No
Q
Did you be l ieve any o f
the
Opera t i on
members
were
double
agen t s
fo r
Cas t ro?
A I
mai n t a i n t o t oday even t h e n t h a t
I
be l i eve t h a t the
number
o f
Cubans
i nvo lved
both
in
t he
p o l i t i c a L m i l it a r y
and
Opera t i on
40, were doub le
agen ts .
Q Would you i d e n t i f y any o f t hose person
by
name?
A
No.
Q
Because o f a c o n f i d e n t i a l i t y o f any
-
63
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 63/119
s e c r e t o p e ra t i v e o r what
i s
the reason fo r no t
i d e n t i
fy ing them?
Well ,
I
could no t because
of
memory,
for
one;
because
of the
people
who
move
away;
and
be-
cause of
the
p a r t i c u l a r
t ime people could have d i s -
appeared ,
l ft
the
coun t ry ,
so fo r th .
At t h i s
t ime ,
no, because
I never
kep t
any reco rds .
The United
S t a t e s Government would have
reco rds , na t u ra l l y , o f a l l of
these
t h i ngs .
Q o you know
t he
r e l a t i o n s h i p
between
Bernard Barker and E.
Howard
Hunt
p r i o r
to
1972?
A
P r i o r to 72?
I knew
t h a t p r i o r to
72 ,
yes ,
I
knew t h a t Barker
was
Eduardo s a s s i s t a n t .
Q Did
you
l a t e r come to
know
Eduardo was
E. Howard Hunt?
Oh,
yes . This ,
I
t h in k ,
came about in
1972.
Q
Was t h i s a
casua l o r c lo se r e l a t i o n s h i
between Bernard
Barker and
Eduardo?
Well , Barker
and
Eduardo was
a
c l o s e
r e l a t i o n s h i p ,
yeah.
Q
Are
you aware o f Gera ld P a t r i c k Hem-
mi ng s a l l e g a t i o n s t h a t you,
a long
wi t h G. Gordon
Liddy,
a t t empted to i n s t i g a t e a shoo t -ou t between
the
demons t ra t o r s i n Flamingo Park
and
the l oc a l po l i ce
64
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 64/119
~
wi th au tomat i c weapons?
A He ' s a l i a r
MR.
RUBIN:
T h a t ' s
all
Q
(By
Mr.
Fr iedman)
You
a r e
aware
o f
t hos e a l l e g a t i o n s ?
A
I 'm
n o t aware o f them; p l u s I ' m
s a y in
h e ' s a liar I f he made t hos e s t a t e m e n t s , h e ' s a
liar
Q Did you
visit
any l o c a l p o l i c e fo rces
in
Dade
o r a d j o i n i n g
c o u n t i e s
in t he
s p r i n g o f 1972?
A I
d o n ' t u n d e r s t a n d t h a t .
Q Did you visit t he l o c a l p o l i c e a u t h o r
t i e s
in Dade
o r
Broward
County in
t he
s p r i n g o f 1972
A
1 9 7 - -
MR. WEilERMAN:
P r io r
to t h e p u b l i c
c o n v e n t i o n .
MR. FRIEDMAN:
Shhh.
MR.
RUBIN:
Before anymore q u e s t i o n s ,
cou ld we t a ke a
little
r e c e s s ?
MR. FRIEDMAN:
We
c an
r e c e s s ;
y e s
(Whereupon,
a s h o r t
r e c e s s
was
t a ke n a t 4 :30
p .m. )
MR
FRIEDMAN:
Back on
t he
r e c o r d .
Q
(By
Mr. Fr iedman) Did you
tell
Andre
St .
George, E. Howard
Hunt
was i nvo lve d in
a coup le
65
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 65/119
o f o the r CIA
o p e r a t i o n s
t h a t
i nvo lved
d i s p o s a l
and
I
can
t ll you some
o f
them
work" .
Did you t ll t h a t
to
Andrew S t . George?
A
Never
Q Where were you on Apr i l
4 ,
1968, t he
d a t e o f
Mart in
Luthe r Ki ng ' s
a s s a s s i n a t i o n ?
A I
d o n ' t
r e c a l l .
MR.
RUBIN:
The o n l y p l a c e he knows he
was OT a t i s Memphis,
Te n n e s se e .
Q
(By Mr.
Fr iedman)
Would
you
l i k e to
say
t h a t fo r t he
r e c o rd?
A The o n l y
p l a c e
I WASN T a t was in
Memphis, Tennessee .
Q
Uow many
f e l o n i e s
have you been c on-
v i c t e d
of?
F i r s t o f f , have you
been
c o n v i c t e d
o f
a
fe lony?
A Yes.
Q
How many t i me s?
A
Twice.
Q
Did
you e ve r
make
a s t a t e m e n t ,
"The
l i b e r a l s ,
I would
l i k e to
kill
them
a l l ?
Never
Q
In a mass c i r c u l a t i o n magazine?
In a
mass c i r c u l a t i o n ,
t he
l i b e r a l s ?
___________
66
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 66/119
I d l i ke
to
k i l l
them All?
MR
RUBIN:
Before you answer t ha t , m
I
have
t he d e t a i l s
on
what
magazine , on
what da t e .
MR WEBERMAN:
Okay.
It
was
- -
I ll
ge t it.
MR FRIEDMAN:
You go ge t the a r t i c l e
and I w i l l go
on
with
the next
q u e s t i o n .
MR
WEBERMAN:
No,
wai t
til I g e t
back, befo re
going
on to t he nex t q u e s t i o n .
Q
By Mr. Fr iedman)
Let me ask ano the r
q u e s t i o n . Did
you tell
Ma r i t a Lorenz
t h a t
t o - w i t :
the CIA,
k i l l e d
Alexander Rourke?
t h e Agency
A
No.
Q
Did
you
make
t h a t
s t a t emen t to
Mar i t a
Lorens?
A
No.
Q
Did
Alexande r Rourke
work for t h e
CIA
or t he
FBI,
to your
knowledge?
A
Yes.
Q
Where was
he
last seen
a l i v e , to
your
knowledge?
A I had a meet ing with
Alex,
I
be l i eve
with B i l l Johnson, one
o r
two
o th e r pe r s ons
with Alex
the
day
o r poss ib ly
two days b e f o r e he d i sappea red .
Q Do you know who t he l a s t person was to
67
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 67/119
No.
Q
By
hearsay?
Matte r
of
f a c t ,
I
ca l l ed
Naval
Intelli-
gence to pu t a search ou t fo r him when he was overdue .
Q
o you remember
t e l l i n g
Michael
Can-
f i e l d , the
co -au tho r o f t h i s book
t ha t h i s f a t h e r - i n
law Sherman Bi l l i ngs l y , was under s u r ve i l l ance by the
CIA?
No.
Q
Did you know
t he
l a t e John Mart ino?
I met him.
Q
The l a t e Will iam Pawley d i d you meet
him
befo re
he
died?
Will iam Pawley Jr. I met
him.
Q
o you
know
a person
known
as Rolando
Cubela a l s o known as
Amlash?
Yes;
in
Cuba.
Q Did
you
know him
in the Uni ted S t a t e s ?
No - -
a t
l e a s t , I d o n t r e c a l l .
Q
Do
you
c o n s i d e r
y o u r s e l f
a
fighter
f o r
Anti-Communism?
I
am a very
s t rong
Anti -Communis t .
Q
Cal l y o u r s e l f
an ex t r emi s t
in t h a t
p a r t i c u l a r
a rea?
Ext remis t? Unders tand t h i s :
I have
-------
-----------
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 68/119
many l i b e r a l i deas
and I
have
many
conse rva t ive ideas
and I d o n t cons ide r mysel f n e i t h e r a l i b e r a l nor a
conse rva t ive .
Q
n
independent th inke r?
Yes, I
t h ink
- -
Q Are you
r e g i s t e r e d as a Democrat o r a
Republ ican?
Yes, I m r e g i s t e r e d
as
a Democra t ;
a l l
my l i f e , a l l
my
fami ly .
Q
worked
for the
same
pa r ty?
Yes.
Q Have you
ever
been
known
as
a
mercenary
o r s o l d i e r of for tune?
Q E i th e r
popular
media o r
imagine ,
some-
th ing l i ke tha t?
I
have read
a r t i c l e s
i n t he pape rs ,
some magazines , where
I v e
been
c a l l e d
a
s o l i d e r
of
fo r tune . I 'm not a mercenary , I never
have
been a
mercenary
in
my
LIFE
Q
Did
you
eve r t h r ea t en
Mar i t a Lorens?
No, never in my life
Q Did
Frank
Nelson ever t h r e a t e n Mari ta
Lorens?
No.
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 69/119
MR
WEBERMAN:
True, o f August 6 4 ,
by
Andrew St . George.
Q
By
Mr. Friedman
Do you d i s c l a i m
Mr.
Andrew
s t .
George s
s t a t ement?
A Yes.
Q
Do you
know i Frank
Nelson eve r se rve
t ime fo r homicide?
A
Not t h a t
I know
of .
Q Have
you ever spoken with Michae l
Canf i e l d
in
a
way
t ha t could be c o n s i d e r e d a t h r e a t
toward
t he
well-being o f Dick Gregory?
A Not
t h a t
I know of .
Q Have you ever worked fo r the CIA as a
con t r ac t agent o r employee?
A I have to ld t he Sena te Wate rga te Comm
t e e , the
In t e l l i ge nc e Committee
and every commit tee I
appeared be fo re ,
t ha t
I have never been an employee o
Cent ra l I n t e l l i g e n c e Agency; t h a t I have t h roughou t
the yea r s and to the day, up
u n t i l
Waterga te ,
t h a t
I
have
had
as s oc i a t i on with
t h e i r
agen t s .
Q
Al l
r i g h t .
Do
you
remember
September
12, 1973, moving
fo r produc t i on
o f
favo rab le ev i dence
a l l eg i ng t h a t Wil l iam Colby had
s t a t e d
t h a t you had
been on t he CIA p a y ro l l ?
I
r e c a l l
t ha t ;
70
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 70/119
Q
We hereby presen t to
you
a copy, no t a
c e r t i f i e d copy, Mr. Rubin
was your
a t to rney a t t h a t
t ime , o f a Motion fo r Discovery of in spec t ion of
favorab le
evidence
in
1973,
a
Federa l
Crimina l
cas e .
A o I mainta in I had
a s s o c i a t i o n ?
I
have
never
been
an employee
of
the
CIA.
Q
Yet
you
did reques t Mr. C o l b y s s t a t e -
ment t h a t you had been on the CIA p a y ro l l n de fense
of
your
A No, I reques ted the CIA f i l e which , to
t h i s day, even
under
the
Freedom
of In fo rma t i on
c ~
I
have not rece ived
and it s
been
l i k e
a lmos t
two
yea r s .
Q
We hereby quote from Page 3 - - may I
ask i f Mr. Rubin w i l l a l l ow t h i s to go
in
as an e x
h i b i t
in
our
case
or
whether
you
wish us
to
o b t a i n
a
c e r t i f i e d
copy, xerox
of
the c o u r t
f i l e ?
You
may
inconvenience me by ask ing
us
to
provide c e r t i f i e d cop ie s .
MR RUBIN: Frank d i d
not of f e r t h i s
o r
s ign it so I w i l l
ob j ec t
to its use .
MR FRIEDMAN: All
r i g h t .
Q
By
Mr.
Friedman) o
you remember
c on-
s u l t i n g with your a t t o r ney
in 1973
MR RUBIN:
We w i l l s t i p u l a t e t h a t he
71
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 71/119
d id .
Q
(By
Mr. Friedman)
- - about
t he fo l low-
ing language ,
and
I quote
from Page
3, Pa ragraph 2(d ) :
The defendan t had been i nd i c t ed f o r
a l l eged a c t i v i t i e s
in
the United S t a t e s
and Mexico in
t he
year
1968; t i s
e s s e n t i a l to the de f endan t ' s de fense to
show hi s
pas t connec t i ons and
working
agreements
wi t h
an
employment
by
the
Cent ra l
I n t e l l i g e n c e
Agency
of the
United S t a t e s ; as
a r e s u l t ,
the f o r e
going
becomes r e l evan t and we want them
to be brought forward .
Do
you remember us i ng
or r eques t i ng
the
use of t ha t
kind
of
l anguage ,
to o b ta in
f avo rab le
evidence?
MR RUBIN:
That
i s my l anguage .
THE
DEPONENT
T ha t ' s my a t t o r n e y ' s
l anguage .
Q
(By
Mr.
Friedman)
I s
t h a t
t r u e o r
f a l se ; t h a t you
in
f a c t had p a s t connec t i ons and
working agreements wi t h an employment by
the
Cen t ra l
I n t e l l i g e n c e
Agency?
A I
main ta in ,
as I s t a t ed befo re in f r o n t
72
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 72/119
of the
Watergate
Committee t h a t I have
had an
as s oc i a
t i on
in
the
p a s t with the Cent ra l
I n t e l l i g e n c e Agency.
Q
But
no t as c o n t r a c t agent?
Not as
a
Cent ra l
I n t e l l i g e n c e
Agency
employee
I
have never been wi t h
t he
CIA.
Q
nd
as
c o n t r a c t agent?
I
s t and by what
I s a i d
t h a t
I
have had
an as s oc i a t i on w i th
the
Cent ra l
In t e l l i ge nc e
Agency.
Q
Did you
have
a
s i gned
c o n t r a c t
w i t h
them
No.
Q
Do
they
s ign c o n t r a c t s
over
t h e r e o r
c o n t r a c t agen t s ; i s the re
a
r e a l c o n t r a c t to be
s i g n e d
or do they
handshake?
Let me
say t h i s :
When I
was in Cuba
I
would never s ign
a
con t r ac t because
i f
I am going
to
spy
fo r
the CIA
I
an going
to
s ign
no t h i ng
wi th
no
body.
Q I f
somebody
looks
a t
the
f i l e
you would
have a littl problem?
Or it
could l e ak
o u t
and
as
a m a t t e r o
f ac t it
did
l e ak ou t i n June 1959 the Cuban I n t e l l i
gence
did
r ece ive in fo rma t ion t h a t
I
W S
spying and th
Second Chief of
Cuban
I n t e l l i g e n c e
who
i s
my
f r i e n d
to t h i s
day
- - asked to speak
with me
ac ross
the s t r e e
73
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 73/119
from
the Havana H i l ton
a t n i g h t t ime ,
and
t o l d me
to
l e ave
the
coun t r y immedia t e ly
because
I
was
going
to
be
p laced under
a r r e s t fo r spying a g a i n s t , be ing a
traitor
and t h i s was t he Second Chie f o f Cuban
I n t e l l i g e n c e .
Q Accord ing to Michae l
C a n f i e l d , you t o l d
him t h a t your a t t o r n e y , Mr.
Rubin ,
ob ta ined
a
CIA
c l ea r ance
fo r your
appea rance
be fo re
t he Rocke fe l l e r
Commission.
Wha t s
t h i s ?
Q Did
you
tell
Mr. C anf ie ld
t h a t Mr.
Rubin
had
ob ta ined
CIA c l e a r a n c e fo r you to
a ppe a r b e f o r e
t he
R ocke fe l l e r
Commission?
No I have n o t .
Q Did you eve r pu r chas e guns
from I n t e r -
armco o f
A lexandr i a ,
V i r g i n i a ,
on
b e h a l f o f t he J u l y
26th movement?
Yes.
Q Did
you purchase
any
Manl incher
Manl inke r .
Q Manl inker Carcanos
weapons f rom t hem
6.5 c a l i b r e ?
I purc ha s e d a
number o f
weapons
f rom
them.
Q
Could you have purchased
a
Manl inke r
74
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 74/119
·
···· · ···· · ···
---
Carcanos?
Poss ib ly ; if
t hey
had
them
yes ,
I
could
have.
I f
they
had them
a va i l a b l e ,
if
t hey so ld
t h a t p a r t i c u l a r
type
o f weapon
- -
Q
They d id .
e have i n fo rma t ion f rom CIA
documents
Document
No.
444-175 t h a t
In te rarmco d id
in
f a c t s e l l Manl inker Carcano weapons .
s a mat te r
of
f a c t ,
you
a re r e c a l l i n g
someth ing for me which
Q
Good.
- - when I
l ft
Cuba one of the t h i ngs
F ide l
wanted
me to do was to come to the Uni ted S t a t e s
to
ge t weapons
and to d e l i v e r
them
to the underground
in Cuba.
One
o f the t h in g s t h a t
he
was ve ry , very
upse t about
was
the
f a c t
t h a t
the
underground c h i e f
here
in
the
United S t a t e s
was
sending the
I t a l i a n
ca rb ine to Havana and I have found
t h a t
t h i s weapon
here
- -
Q Couldn t f i r e r ap id?
A
- -
t h i s
i s a
p iece
o f garbage .
I f
you
f i r e d
it
r ap i d ,
it would jam
up and
my
job
was
- -
Q Couldn t
unload
them
in
the S t a t e s so
they dumped
them?
75
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 75/119
-- ·
· ··
·
A In Cuba,
yes ;
and
t hey
Q The arms
manufac t u re r s
have f i n a l l y
met
t h e i r
maker .
P r o f i t e e r s .
Okay.
Co-defendant o f yours in t he 73
c a s e ,
Max
Gonzalez , says
you were an employee
o f
t he CIA f rom
1959
to
1968.
I s t h i s t r u e o r f a l s e?
A
Again ,
I still
s t a t e
t h a t I had my
a s s o c i a t i o n
MR. RUBIN:
J u s t a
minute .
J u s t
a
minu te .
THE DEPONENT:
Sor ry .
MR. RUBIN:
He asked you if Max Gonza lez
s a i d
t h a t
you
were an
employee .
Did he say t h a t ?
THE DEPONENT : He can say
a n y t h i n g .
MR. RUBI N:
T h a t s r i g h t .
MR. FRIEDMAN:
But s it t r u e ?
MR . RUBIN:
I s
it t r u e t h a t he s a i d
i t ?
I s
it t r u e
t h a t
yo
u a re an
emp
l o yee?
THE DEPONENT:
I
mai n t a i n t h a t
I
had an
a s s o c i a t i o n .
T h a t s
it.
Q
(By
Mr.
Fr iedman)
But you
a r e
n o t
w i l l i n g
to
e l a b o ra t e
on t h a t
a s s o c i a t i o n ?
A Ri gh t.
Q Do
you
know where Max
Gonzalez
is
t oday?
7
J
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 76/119
·
--
- - - - -
---------------- · ·
F l o r i d a J
Max
Gonzalez i s in
F o r t
P ie r c e ,
Q He
d o e s n t seem to
have a
t e l e p h o n e
l i s t e d
in
h i s
name.
MR.
WEBERMAN:
H e s in jail.
Q
By
Mr. Friedman)
I s he in c u s t o d y a t
t h i s t ime?
A
I
d o n t know.
I have no i d e a .
Q Do
you know
any
o f
t he
f o l l o w i n g members
of t he C h r i s t i a n
Democra t ic Movement:
V i c t o r Panque?
A
Penequi ; yes ,
Comandante V i c t o r Penequ i ;
ye s .
(Phone t i c s p e l l i n g s . )
Q And
Rudolph Richard
Davis , Jr., a r e you
f a m i l i a r
w i t h
t he name?
A
P o s s i b l y ;
t he
name
sounds
f a m i l i a r .
I f
y o u r e
t a l k in g abou t an
American
who
c a l l s
h i mse l f
Davey, Davis , if it s him.
him o r no t .
MR. WEBERMAN:
THE DEPONENT:
l e a ve it
t h a t way.
I m no t s u r e
whether
it s
I
t h i n k it s him.
I m no t
s u re , let s
Q
By Mr. Friedman)
Do
you know o f
t he
fo l l ow ing members of t he
MIRR
or t he
MIR,
t o - w i t :
Orlando Ma s fe r r e r ?
A I knew him
befo re
he was
k i l l e d ; yes .
77
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 77/119
· ·· · --
-·--·--------------------·----·---·-----------<
Q Kiki ' ' Mlsfe r r e r?
A I
met
him.
Q Rolandi to
Mlsfe r re r?
A I
met
him.
Q Do you know any o f the fo l l owi ng peop l e
Mitche l S t ua r t Li v i ngs t on Werbel l (phone t i c ) ; do you
know them?
A I read a l o t about him;
pe r s ona l ly ,
no.
Q Paul Hel l iwe l l ?
A
No.
Q Colone l
Bayard?
A
Per sona l ly ,
no.
Q
J e r r y
Wayne Cunningham?
A
I
d o n t
be l ieve
so.
The
name
s t r i k e s
something,
but
I
MR.
WEBERMAN:
Co-defendant
in the
werbe l l trial
THE DEPONENT:
I 'm not su re .
Q
By
Mr.
Friedman)
Morton Frank l in?
A
D o e s n t r i ng .
Q Henry Grecco?
A No.
Q
Parabel lum Corpora t ion?
Parabe l l a?
P a ra b e l l a i s a co r po r a t i on .
78
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 78/119
· ·· -----
· ·
Q Yes.
A I
th ink
J e r r y
P a t r i c k
has
t ha t ; yes .
Q
Have you
eve r
been
to
Powder
Spr ings ,
Georgia?
A
Powder Spr ings ,
Georgia?
No.
Q
Do
you know any o f
the
fo l l owi ng
peop
connec ted with
the DRE:
Mr. Lanusa? F i r s t name i s
Jose .
A
Jose Lanusa?
That isn t the same one
who was the
mayor
o f Cuba, i s i t ?
MR. WEBERMAN:
Might be.
THE WITNESS:
T h a t s
Pepe --
no, I m
not
su re .
It s pos s i b l e , cause
I
knew some
peop l e i
the
DRE.
Q
By
Mr.
Friedman)
To the b e s t o f
your
r e c o l l e c t i o n .
It was a couple of years ago .
I
d o n t
remember
when I went
to high
school e i t h e r .
A
I m
not
sure .
Q Car l os Bringuie r?
A
I m
n o t s u r e w h e t h e r I met him o r n o t .
Q Miguel Cruz?
A
I m no t s u r e .
Q Juan Franc i sco Blanco F e r n ~ n d e z
A
I m
not
su re aga in .
79
· ·
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 79/119
.
· --·-·-------------------
------------·
MR WEBERMAN:
He was the
m i l i t a r y
d i r e c t o r of the ORA in Miami.
THE DEPONENT
Poss iby .
You
see ,
a t
t h a t
t ime,
you
know, y o u r e
involved wi th all
t he s e
people ,
you ve
met a l o t of them
and, aga in ,
if I
neve
mainta ined c o n t a c t t hen
I would
f o r ge t who t hey a re .
Q
By Mr.
Friedman) I m
going
to g ive a
list
of names and t h i s i s members o f the I n t e r n a t i o n a l
Anti-Communist
Brigade ,
a re
you w i l l i ng to d i s c l o s e
whether
o r not these
people
were
members?
A Sure .
Q Loran Eugene Hal l?
A I
be l ieve he came
in
to my
group
a t
the
same t ime
with
J e r r y
P a t r i c k
Hemming
and t hen he l e f t .
Q
Do
you
know
him?
A I
met him; r i g h t .
Q Ed C ol l i n s , did you meet
him?
A
Ed Col l in s?
I
be l ieve
so .
Q James Lewis?
A
Poss ib ly .
I f
he
i s with t h a t group,
wi th t ha t J e r ry Buchanan; I d i d n t know everybody, bu
I knew - -
Q Mart in Franc i s Casey?
A
Yeah.
80
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 80/119
...- --
· · ··
MR WEBERMAN:
Wait .
You re supposed to
be the l e ade r of the group, Frank .
THE
DEPONENT:
Yeah, but J e r r y P a t r i ck
had
t h i s
group of
men and
J e r r y P a t r i ck
came and wanted
to j o i n
my
group. I d i d n t know everybody
Q
A
Q
A
ca l l ed
him.
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
Q
A
Q
MR WEBERMAN: I see .
(By
Mr.
Friedman)
James
E. Woodard?
I d o n t
r e c a l l
him.
Joe
Cavendish
Garmen?
Joe Garmen; yeah ,
L i t t l e
Joe ,
t h e y
Roy Hargraves?
Yeah.
Leroy Col l in s?
Him,
I
be l ieve
so.
J e r r y Hemming you know.
I b e l i e v e
so.
id
Marks?
Roy
Paine?
I m no t
su re .
Howard Kenneth Davis?
Sid
Marks?
Howard Davis? T h a t s
t he
one
-
Ins t ead
of
Rudolph Richard Davis?
Yes.
Yes.
Lawrence Howard?
81
____
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 81/119
---·--
------------ -·---.
I 'm no t s u re
of
him.
Q
Dick
Whatley?
A
Yes.
Q
Dick
Hatchcock?
A
Not
s u r e .
Q
Edmund Colby?
A
Yes.
Q
Rober t
Kenneth Brown?
P o s s i b l e .
Q
Wil l iam Seymour o f
the
Free Cuba
commit tee?
I 'm no t
s u r e .
Q What
about
John
Cl inne r ( p h o n e t i c ) ?
I 'm no t s u r e .
Q Did you work
w i th
J e r ry
Buchanan
in t he
B e r n s t e i n bus t?
A
Did
I
work w i th
J e r r y Be rns t e in?
Le t
m
ay
t h a t
J e r ry Buchanan, whi le I was in jail
came
to
c o n t a c t
me
and
ask me
i f
I
would c o n t a c t t h e CIA
becau
he had
a n a t i o n a l
s e c u r i t y t h i n g .
I
says ,
Hey,
I 'm in jail
I
c a n ' t do
it 11
He
says , Well ,
y o u ' l l
be o u t s h o r t l y .
When I go t ou t
s h o r t l y ,
I
d i d
c o n t a c t the CIA
fo r
him.
32
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 82/119
'' -··-·······-··· · · ·· _ ________
Q
Did you
have
a mot ive
to
kill
t he
p r e s i d e n t ?
A
No
None wha t s oeve r .
Q
Did
P r e s i d e n t
Kennedy
t h r e a t e n to r e -
voke
your
Amer ican
c i t i z e n s h i p
on September 15 ,
1963?
voked?
Q
warn you t h a t
Q
1963?
Revoke?
y c i t i z e n s h i p
w s
r e -
(At t h i s
p o i n t , t he de fendan t Weberman
i n t e r r u p t e d t he i n t e r r o g a t i o n and
a rgued
wi th h i s couns e l c o n c e r n i n g
the last q u e s t i o n posed
t o t h e
w i t n e s s . )
(By Mr. Friedman)
Did Bobbie
Kennedy
(Again,
t he de f endan t Weberman a r gued
wi th h i s couns e l conce r n ing t he u n
f i n i s h e d q u e s t i o n
be i ng posed to t h e
w i t ne s s . )
(By Mr.
Friedman) Did
somebody
in
t he
J u s t i c e
Depar tment in 1963 warn you
to cease and
d e s i s t
your war
a c t i v i t i e s
a ga i n s t
Cuba
o r
t h r e a t e n t h e l o s s
of
your
u. S.
c i t i z e n s h i p if you d i d n t ?
I
d o n t
r e c a l l what
yea r
Q Did t h a t occur?
I
d o n t
r e c a l l
what yea r r e a l l y t h a t
came
o u t .
It
d id occu r ,
but
I m no t s u r e o f t he
yea r .
4
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 83/119
·
··
- - ----·- - - - - - - · ~ · ·
· · ·
Q Did he t h r e a t e n to send you to j il i f
you con t inued these
war
a c t i v i t i e s ?
A He d i d .
Q
What did
they tell
you?
A I was warned by t he government t h a t if I
did p e r s i s t
in
doing these
opera t ions
a g a i n s t
Cuba
t h a t ,
you know
l ega l ac t ion would
be t aken
a g a i n s t
me
Q You met with Pres iden t
Kennedy
wi th
Car los Pr io in the
White
House?
A
No not
in
the White
House;
here
in
Miami
Beach.
Q
Did
he l i s t e n to
your
p l e a s o r d i d he
r e fuse to accep t your pleas to con t inue to suppor t the
Cuban
Revolu t ionary
Front?
A
As
a
mat te r o f f a c t , Pr e s i de n t Kennedy
was very favorab le
when
I
i n t roduced
him to t he
ex -
p r e s i d e n t of Cuba
and exp la ined
who
the
e x -p re s i d e n t
was.
Mr.
Kennedy spoke
very
f avo rab ly of Mr. Pr i o and
of
the
Cuban cause ; spoke ve ry f avorab ly .
Q Was your B-25 bomber r e g i s t r a t i o n r e -
voked by
the Kennedy
Government?
A
I m
not
su re who
was
in government .
I m
not
su re whether it
was
- -
Q But it was revoked?
85
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 84/119
· · - - · - · - - - · - - · - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
i
over
Havana with the B-25.
I came back s ho r t l y a f t e r
my p i l o t s l i c ens e
was
revoked .
Yes, t ha t
I
can say .
Q were members
of
the
I n t e r n a t i o n a l
communist Brigade a r r e s t ed?
A I
have never had any con tac t wi th t h a t
group
of
boys .
Remember
what
I t o l d
you - -
Q
o you
know
i f
t hey were a r r e s t ed?
A
Remember what
I
t o l d
you,
t h a t
I
d i s -
a s s o c i a t e d
myse l f
wi th
the
Brigade
and
t he
person
t h a t
took over
the Brigade a s Sec re ta ry was J im
Buchanan.
So, I d i s a s s oc i a t ed myself wi th them.
Now,
what
t hey
did a f t e r t ha t
I
d o n t
know.
Q When
did you
d i s a s s oc i a t e
your s e l f ,
about 6 2 , 63?
A I d o n t r e c a l l .
Q
Did you
f ee l t ha t P re s id e n t Kennedy
doublcrossed the e x i l e s a t t he
Bay
of Pigs?
A I
f e l t t ha t
t he
government
a t t h a t
t ime
did
a
very
big
be t r aya l
of the
Cuban
e x i l e s .
Q Did you f ee l t h a t the Russ ians and
Pres iden t Kennedy
had
come t o g e th e r to
make a
dea l t o
c u r t a i l these an t i - C as t r o a c t i v i t i e s ?
Yes.
I
f e l t
t ha t Russia
and t he
United
·
87
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 85/119
--------------
S t a t e s ,
yes .
Q
How tall
a re you on
your d r i v e r ' s
l i cense?
A
I 'm
not sure ; about 5 '10 ' ' , 5 '1 1 ,
something l i k e t h a t .
Q
Have you ever been
accused by your ex -
a t t o r n e y
MR. WEBERMAN Wait a
second.
Can I
look
a t
t ha t ?
THE DEPONENT:
(Handing
l i c e n s e
to the
defendan t
Weberman.)
MR. WEBERMAN
(Examining same)
Okay.
Q
(By Mr. Friedman)
Do you know t h a t
your
e x - a t t o r n e y , Char les Ashman,
be l i e ve s you to
be
t he
t ramp in the
Daily
Plaza?
A
Well ,
if
he
s t a t e d
t h a t he be l i e ve d I m
the
t ramp
in the
Daily
Plaza ,
it s a
l i e because
I saw
t he p i c t u r e s in
Washington
and t he se
two people t h a t I
saw up t he re t h a t look
l i k e
me, f o r g e t it.
Q
You unders tand
t h a t Mari ta L orens ,
a l
so . I
b e l i e v e s
th i s ?
I
I
A People
can
be l i e ve what
t hey
want to
b e l i e v e .
Q Did
you userubber
gloves , f a l s e ID
and a
'
38
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 86/119
-
· · - ----------
- . ·--------- -·- · ·-- ·---------------· ·--------------
w al k i e - t a l k i e n the Watergate ope ra t ions?
A Yes.
Q Were
you, a l s o ,
involved in
t he
burg la
r i e s
of
the o f f i c e s
o r
homes o f Sol Linowi tz and Jaco
Jav i t z?
A No.
Q In Oswald s
address
book t he
name
appea r s , I submi t to you we be l ieve to be - - where th
little
red
mark shows
- -
t r y
and
ge t
t hose
documents
i n t roduced , Oswald s address book accord i ng
to govern
ment documents . I s
t ha t
your name?
A To
me? No
it s
no t .
Q
O
you know what
t h a t name
i s
t he r e?
A No.
I f
t h a t
name
i s
me
I gua ran tee
got
me
n the re to
be
s e t up to
be k i l l e d ,
because
a
t h a t t ime I
was
very s t ro n g ly
ant i -communis t ,
my nam
was
n
the
paper qu i t e
a
b i t
and he supposed l y ,
by
h
w i fe s t es t imony,
made an
a t t empt
to k i l l
Genera l
Walker
who was an
outspoken
- -
Q And John Connol ly .
A
Whatever ; and Richard Nixon, and
so
fo r th .
Q
o
you f e e l t h a t you
were
n the same
c l a s s on a h i t list
of
Oswald s?
89
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 87/119
·· ·· ...
_
A
I f t h a t i s my name t h e r e .
I d o n t
t h i n k t h a t s y name t h e r e ; bu t if t h a t i s my
name,
I
would assume t h a t t h i s i s h i s r e a s on .
Q
Have
you
submi t t ed
MR. FRIEDMAN: You
d o n t w nt to s t i p u
l a t e t h a t t h i s i s t he a u t h e n t i c - -
MR. RUBIN:
I d o n t mind if t s
e n t e r e d
as
p a r t of
the
d e p o s i t i o n .
MR. FRIEDMAN: For
p u rp o se s
o f t h e
d e p o s i t i o n , we
submit
t h a t
as
a copy o f an a u t h e n t i c
p i e c e o f
the a ddre s s book.
Q
(Thereupon, the document was
marked D e fe n d a n t s E x h i b i t
No.
1 . )
(By
Mr.
Friedman) These peop le were
a s s o c i a t e d
wi th
Oswald
in New Orl eans , a l s o had ti s
w i th v a r i o u s o t h e r e x i l e s ,
e x i l e
groups ,
i n c l u d i n g
t he
Cuban
R e v o l u t i o n a ry
Counci l
and
Cuban
Revo l u t i ona ry
F r o n t .
I m
going to g ive you
t h e s e
names and
you say Yes o r
No as
to
whether o r
no t you
know
t hese
pe op le .
Wil l iam Stuckey?
A
I m
no t
s u r e .
90
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 88/119
· · · ·· ·· ·· · ···
Q
Clay Shaw?
A
No
Q Ca r los Quiroga?
A
I m no t su re .
Q
Ernes t o
Rodriguez ,
J r .
o r S r . ?
A Too
many
yea rs .
Q
Edward But l e r?
A
No
Q
Ores te
Pena?
A
Too many
y e a r s .
Q Orlando Piedra?
A I d o n t r e c a l l .
Q Ronald
Caire
A I
d o n t r e c a l l .
Q
El ad i a
de l
Val le?
A I be l ieve I may have met him b e f o r e . He
was a sena to r , i I m
not mistaken .
t imes .
I
met
him s eve r a l
Q Gordon Novel?
A
I never met him p e r s o n a l l y .
I have
spoke
with him on t he t e l ephone ,
but
I
have
neve r , I
d o n t
be l i eve I
ever
met
him pe r s ona l l y .
Q o you remember when t h a t conve r sa t ion
was
91
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 89/119
. · · · · ·· · ··· . . ···· · · · · · · · · · .
A
Maybe l a s t
yea r .
I d o n t know
Q Alton Oshner?
A
I
d o n t
know
Q
Wil l iam Gaudet?
A I
d o n t
know
Q Hal
Ross Yockey?
A D o n t
r e c a l l
him
Q Luis Rabel
o r
Rave l?
A
I d o n t r e c a l l him
Q Frank Ba r t e s
o r
Bardes?
A I d o n t r e c a l l
him
Q Wil l iam Monteleone?
A
I d o n t r e c a l l him
Q
Guy
Ba nn i s t e r ?
A
I d o n t r e c a l l him
Q How abou t Meyer P a n i t z ?
A I don t
r e c a l l him
Q Sam
Benton?
A D o n t r e c a l l him
Q Dino
C e l l i n i ?
A Yes
Q
Blaney
Mack Johnson?
A Who
Q
Blaney Mack Johnson?
92
·
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 90/119
·
A I
d o n t r e c a l l him
Q
Joe Marrs?
A
Joe Marrs?
Q Hmmm.
A I
d o n t r e c a l l him
Q C l i f t o n T Bowes?
A
D o n t r e c a l l .
Q Les Lewis?
A I
d o n t r e c a l l him
e i t h e r .
Q
Rober t
Vol lmer?
A D o n t
r e c a l l
him
Q Rus s e l l Douglas Mat thews?
A D o n t
r e c a l l him
Q
Nunzio
Pecora?
A D o n t
r e c a l l him
Q
Mickey
Cohen?
A
Mickey Cohen?
I
may have
met hime one
t ime on Miami Beach
Q
James
Brad ley?
A
D o n t
r e c a l l
him
Q
J im
Braden?
A
D o n t
r e c a l l
him
Q
Did
you
e v e r h e a r
o f
t h e
f o l l o w i n g
p l a c e s a s s o c i a t e d w i t h Jack
Ruby:
93
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 91/119
. .
· ·· · .·
- - - - -
-------·-··
·
·
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ·
Aero
Ordinance
Supply?
1
I
A No.
Q
Town
Country Motel?
A In New Orleans?
Q
In New Orl eans .
A I
s tayed
a t
t he
Town Country a t one
t ime when I went th rough New Orl eans .
I was headed to
Cen t r a l
America .
Q Trop i ca l
Court
T r a i l e r
Camp?
A No.
Q CIA
memo,
da ted
June
10,
1975,
Memo No.
135-1059B, s t a t e s t h a t An unknown group i s back to
stir
up some o f
S tu rg i s '
a c t i v i t i e s .
Could you i d e n -
t i f y the group?
A
No - - yeah.
One was Dr.
- -
MR WEBERMAN:
Sanchez
Moreno?
THE DEPONENT:
No.
Dr. Luis
Con ta -
huelo (phone t ic ) .
I made a s e r i e s
o f o p e r a t i o n s
fo r
him
which he f i nanced .
He could not g e t any
Cuban
p i l o t s
to
do
the
o p e ra t i o n ,
so
I p e r s o n a l l y d id the
ope r a t i ons .
Q
Let
me ask you i
you
a re f a m i l i a r w i th
t he se
names:
Maurice Gat l i n?
94
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 92/119
\
\
---- .
I d o n t
r e c a l l
t h a t
name.
Q
Hugh
Ward?
D o n t
r e c a l l
t h a t
one .
Q
David
F e r r i e ?
D o n t r e c a l l
t h a t .
Q
c.
Ray Gi l l
D o n t
r e c a l l .
Q
Ca r los
Marche l lo?
D o n t
r e c a l l t h a t .
Q
Manuel Gil
D o n t
r e c a l l
t h a t
one
e i t h e r .
Q
Arcacha
Smith?
I d o n t
r e c a l l
t h a t .
Q
Are you
f a m i l i a r
w i t h
the
a d d r e s s ,
544
Camp
S t r e e t ,
New O r l e a n s?
I
read
t in
t he
book.
Q
You d o n t remember whose book?
No; bu t e v id e n t l y in
one
o f t h e books
p e r t a in in g
to
t he J . F. Kennedy a s s a s s i n a t i o n .
Q Are you f a m i l i a r
w i th
any
o f
t h e
fo l l ow
ing o rg a n i z a t i o n s :
Cuban Re vo lu t iona ry Counci l o f
New
Orleans?
Not in
New
Orl eans ; wi th t he
Cuban
Re vo lu t iona ry
Counc i l
o f
Miami; ye s .
_ _
95
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 93/119
-
-
..
-----· ---------
----
-------------
Q
Were you ever
a t
t he t r a i n i n g
camps a t
Lacombe Louis iana?
A
Nope.
Q Did you hear abou t them
p r i o r
to t oday?
A
Yeah.
Q Are you f ami l i a r
with the
Fr iends o f
Democra t ic Cuba?
A Not r e a l l y ; no.
Q Are you
f ami l i a r
wi t h the
B al t e r
Bui ld ing ~ New Orleans?
A No.
Q In
your d i s c l o s u r e s
t o t he p re s s
about
the
J .
F. Kennedy dea t h
be ing
t he
r e s p o n s i b i l i t y
o f
Fide l Cas t ro ,
you
c la im
t h a t
Oswald met
wi t h
Cas t ro
agen t s in the
Yucatan.
Do
you have any s ourc e o f t h a t
in format ion?
A
J u s t sources
t h a t I
t u rned ove r
to t he
government . Some of my
sources
t h a t I r e c e iv e informa
t i o n from pe r t a i n i ng to
the
i n fo rma t ion ,
and so
fo r th
came
from
some f r i e n d s
o f
mine
who
were
a t
one t ime
agen ts , CIA
agent s
o r
who
had
been wi t h
t he CIA.
MR
RUBIN: I have about two
pages more
o f q u e s t i o n s ,
p l us
going
over a few o th e r q u e s t i o n s .
MR
RUBIN:
I w i l l
give you
a
few
-
97
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 94/119
m inu te s .
Go
ahead .
F ra n k , do you want
to
s t a y?
THE DEPONENT
Yes.
Q
(By Mr. Friedman)
A rn e s t I . Arag6n ,
Uni ted
S ta t e s Sec re t Se rv i ce ,
have
you e ve r met
him
o r
know o f him
A I m
no t
su re .
Q
What
abou t
FBI S p e c i a l Agent James
O Conner?
Wel l , him, h i s
name
r e g i s t e r s . I
b e-
l i v e - - I m no t s u re - - he
was
one
o f
the
two
a g e n t s
p e r t a in in g to the Bay o f Bigs Invas i on .
Q Well , w a s n t he your
case
o f f i c e r
when
you
r e t u r n e d
from Cuba in
1960?
A Well ,
when you
say
case
o f f i c e r , a r e
you
t a l k in g abou t
t he
CIA?
MR
WEBERMAN
No,
no; FBI.
In
o t h e r
words , maybe
you
i n t r u d e d . You ve g o t t a watch t h i s ,
you were r e c r u i t e d by
F i d e l ; in o t h e r words ,
c o u n t e r -
s u r v e i l l a n c e , c o u n t e r - i n t e l l i g e n c e
f u n c t i o n ; in
o t h e r
words , when
you came
back from Cuba,
h e d want
to know
i f you were l e g i t o r you were r e c r u i t e d by F i d e l .
MR FRIEDMAN:
D e br i e f ing o f f i c e r .
THE DEPONENT
P o s s i b l y ; because you
93
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 95/119
must unders tand t ha t I s e t up an i n t e l l i g e n c e
appa ra tus
here in the
United
S ta t e s . I was
Chief
of
I n t e l l i g e n c e
and I was
a l so , Direc to r
of
S e c u r i t y
of
the
Cuban
Air
Force .
So I had an i n t e l l i g e n c e appa ra tus t h a t
I
did send
here to
the
un i t ed S t a t e s and n a t u r a l l y ,
t h i s
in format ion was
tu rned
over to the
Uni ted
S t a t e s
Government .
Q
Now,
AlcohoL Tobacco
Fi rearms
Agent
Frank El l swor t h ; do you know him?
A I d o n t
know
him.
Q FBI Spec ia l Agent
warren
C. de
Brueys?
o
you know
him?
A
Poss ib ly .
You
know w e r e going
over
yea rs , and - -
Q CIA employees do you remember any o f
these
people :
Will iam Harvey?
A
No.
Q
S h e f f i e ld
Edwards?
A I d o n t r e c a l l
him.
Q Rober t
A. Mayheu?
A I d o n t r e c a l l .
Q Richard B i s s e l l ?
99
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 96/119
A
·
1
Everybody knows t h a t B i s s e l l
was
i nvo lved in the i n v a s i o n .
Q But
you
d i d n t
know him p e r s o n a l l y ?
A
No.
Q
Desmond F i t z g e r a l d ?
A No
Q
J .
C. King?
A Well , he was
t he
top
man
fo r
t h e Brigad
in
Ce nt r a l
America .
Q
o
you
know him
p e r s o n a l l y ?
A Persona l l y?
No.
At
l e a s t , I
d o n t r e c a l l meet ing him.
Q
Richard
Helms?
A No.
Q
Thomas Karamiss ines?
A I
d o n t
r e c a l l .
Q Raymond Rocca?
A I
d o n t r e c a l l .
Q Danie l
James?
A No
Q
Mariada Arensberg?
A I
d o n t
r e c a l l none
o f
t h e s e p e o p l e .
You
must unde r s t a nd t h a t many pe op le
going in
d o n t
use
t h e i r
names t he y use code names .
100
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 97/119
· ~ ·
··· ··· ···· ·
- - - -
--·----------
-
·
· ·
0
, if r • n ocrooo C h e m d o n t know
who t he y o r i g i n a l l y
were o r what .
I d o n t r e c a l l meetJ
ing
any
o f t he se
peop l e . J
Q In r e l a t i o n s h i p
to Oswald
and the Kenne
a s s a s s i n a t i o n , i n v e s t i g a t i o n r evea led
t h a t t he fo l l ow-
ing names, we
a r e
wonder ing
whether
o r no t you know an
of these people :
George DeMorhenschi ld t?
A I have
never
met him p e r s o n a l l y .
Q
Ruth Paine?
A No
Q Michael
Paine?
A No
Q General Edwin Walker?
A
No
Q
Genera l
Char le s Cabe l l?
A I m not su re o f General Cabe l l .
He was
an
i n t e l l i g e n c e
o f f i c e r for MacArthur ; I m not s u r e .
Q David P h i l l i p s ?
A
No
Q
D.
E .
Bos t e r
A
See ,
David P h i l l i p s - - let me go back
to David P h i l l i p s - - he worked in Havana.
I m no t
sure
hether
I ever met him or not
because he
was the man
t ha t
I would
be ,
t h a t I was
in
touch
with ;
but t he r e
i
101
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 98/119
~ · . . ·
· · · · · ~
i s the
p o s s i b i l i ty t h a t he may have
ran
a c ro s s
me in
the embassy
and
I d i d n ' t know who
he
was.
Q
D.
E. Bos te r?
A
I d o n ' t r e c a l l him.
Q
Richard
c.
Nagel?
A
No; d o n ' t r e c a l l .
Q
Jay Mal l in?
A
I met Mal l in .
Q
Paul
Bethe l?
A
I met
him.
Q
Sanchez Arango?
A Yes.
Q
Do you know the l a t e Dr. Car l os
P r o
Soca r ra s?
A Yes.
Q
Did
you ever work for him?
A
I have been
a s s o c i a t e d
with him. I have
never worked
for him.
Q Did you know
a
man
t ha t worked
wi th him
or
fo r
him
named Jack
Rubins te in?
A No.
Q
This
i s
pr io r
to
C a s t ro ' s
coming
i n t o
power pr i o r to 1959.
A I
d o n ' t r e c a l l .
102
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 99/119
- - - - - - - - -··--·-. · ··
--
Q
Did
you ever meet
Jack
Ruby?
A
Jack
Ruby?
No.
It s the same
name.
Q During
the
f i r s t months
o f
the Cast ro
regime
in
Cuba, were
you
appoin ted
Mini s t e r
o f Games o
Chance?
A I was
pu t i n
charge of the gambl ing
cas inos fo r t he Cuban
Government.
Q Did you ever
have con tac t
wi th peop l e a
t he
Tropicana
Casino?
A I
was in
c o n t a c t
with
many
peop l e
- -
Q
o
you remember a p i t ch boss by
t h e
name of
Lewis
J .
McWill ie?
A
Yes.
Q
Did
you
know
him l a t e r
in Miami?
A
I
m
not su re .
Q
Did
you
ever
meet him
on
a house boa t
over by the
Fonta inebleu?
A I d o n t be l ieve so.
Q o you know the
owners of
the
Nacional
Hote l ,
Will iam
and
Mike
Mcclaney?
A I met him; yes .
Q
o you remember a
man
named Jo rge Soto
Mar t inez?
A Jorge
Soto Mar t inez?
----
103
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 100/119
----- ----
· ·.
·
·
Q George.
A
George? Poss ib ly .
I f
he
had
any t h i ng
to
do
with
cas inos ,
poss ib ly ,
because
Q
He worked with
Mcclaney.
A Poss ib ly ; because I d i d n t meet eve ry -
body the re cause t h e r e s too many
people
invo lved .
Q During
the
e a r ly 60s , in
an
e f f o r t to
wipe out the Cas t ro
Government , c e r t a i n
con t ac t s were
made with gambling
f i gu re s .
Did
you
con t inue a s s o c i a -
t i ons with gambling f igu re s?
A When I l e f t
Cuba
and came i n t o t he
United Sta t e s , I have had no a s s o c i a t i o n wi t h NY
of
the people
who had
anyth ing to do wi th gambl ing
in
Cuba.
I m
t a l k i ng
about
a s s oc i a t i on .
I
may
have r an ac ros s some of them on
the Beach
in
a
lounge ,
something l i k e t h a t ,
because of
my
Cuban
f r i ends where we used
to go meet c e r t a i n
people .
So, you know, - -
Q But you
d i d n t
do any b u s in e s s wi th
them?
A I
have
NEVER in my life
worked fo r
gambl ing c a s in o s , worked for any
of
the gambl ing
e lements , i n
Cuba
nor the
Uni ted
St a t e s .
l
04
1
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 101/119
- -
- - -
- - --------
· ·
---- ·
Q
What
about Norman Rothman?
A I have never worked for Norman Rothman.
I
knew
he was
in
Cuba.
Q
Did
you have con tac t with him
in
t he
United Sta te s?
A Well , I ran
ac ross him on the
Beach
w i th my
Cuban
f r i e nds .
Q
Was
t h a t j u s t say ing ,
Hello' ' or d id
you
have
a
conve r sa t ion
with him?
A
Hel lo ,
Goodbye ,
Have
a
dr ink
and
then
l e ave .
Q
Q
T h a t ' s
it.
All
r i g h t . What about t he se peop l e - -
(At t h i s
po i n t ,
the
defendan t
Weberman
again i n t e r r u p t s the i n t e r r o g a t i o n to
d iscus s
the next
q u e s t i o n . )
(By
Mr. Friedman)
Do
you remember a
s to l e n
s e c u r i t i e s
case where in you were
q u e s t i o n e d
by
the FBI
about
your con tac t with Norman Rothman?
A I
d o n ' t
r e c a l l
t h a t , but I
r ead
some-
th ing about t h a t ,
about
Norman
Rothman
being i nvo lved
in Canada about ,
you
know, s to l e n
s e c u r i t i e s ; bu t
I
c o u l d n ' t
help
you
w i th t h a t in any way what soeve r .
MR. WEBERMAN: But
you
remember be i ng
ques t ioned?
THE DEPONENT:
I d o n ' t
r e a l l y
remember
105
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 102/119
---- · ~ · · ~ ~
being
ques t ioned .
MR. WEBERMAN: We
have
the r e p o r t .
THE DEPONENT: Well , if you
have it
then they m us t ve because t h a t s been so many
yea r s
ago and
it
was of no
i n t e r e s t
to me, you know.
Q
By Mr. Friedman
Did you a id in
the
r e l ea s e of
Santos T r a f f i c an t e
from
a Cuban j a i l ?
A Santos T r a f f i c an t e
was a r r e s t e d i n
Cuba
l i k e
~ a n y
of
the
Americans .
Q Did you he lp ge t him out
of
j a i l ?
A I
wouldn t say t h a t what
I t r i e d to
do
helped him
get
out of
jail because Santos had a good,
s t rong con tac t with
the
Cuban
Government
and
one
of the
people he had a s t rong c o n t a c t w i th was
MR. WEBERMAN: Juan Or ta
(phone t i c ) ?
·rim DEPONENT:
No,
not him
- -
w el l , I
d o n t know about him.
It was
somebody
e l s e .
He was a
c a p t a i n . Mari ta
knows t h i s
pa r t y .
He was a mula t to
and
I m t r y i ng to
remember
h i s
name.
Capta in
Yanos
P e l e t i e r ,
I
th ink
it
was,
and he
above
a l l
was very
c lose to F ide l and I
t h ink ,
from t he i n fo rma t i on I
go t ,
t h a t Yanos P e l e t i e r was
very involved and in s t rumen ta l in ge t t i ng Santos r e -
l eased .
106
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 103/119
for
him.
. ··
-------------1
Myself ,
p e r s o n a l l y ,
I
could do noth ing
Q
(By Mr. Friedman)
Cou ldn t pu t
in a
good
word
fo r him?
A
Yes,
I pu t i n
a good
word fo r
him.
Q
Do you remember the Mannarino Brothers?
A
The Mannarino Bro the rs ,
I
know
one t h a t
met in s ide of Cuba. be l ieve he
had
something to
do
with
the
r a c e t r a c k ,
one
of the
p a r t n e r s
a t
the
race-1
t r ack ; because as a
government o f f i c i a l
we s o ld ,
t h e
government
al lowed
someone e l s e to come
in and buy
i n to
the r ace t r ack .
Q Did you have
any a s s oc i a t i on
wi th Meyer
Lan sky?
A
No;
not pe r s ona l l y .
Q
Jake
Lansky?
A No.
Q
Hyman
Levine?
A I
knew Jake ,
I knew Hyman Levine .
MR. WEBERMAN:
You
s a id
you
knew
THE DEPONENT:
Yes, I met Jake .
had any a s s o c i a t i o n
with
him.
Q (By Mr. Friedman)
John
R os s e l l i ?
Jake?
I never
A I m not
su re
of R os s e l l i ,
to
be
very
j
l 07
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 104/119
· · · ···
· · · · · · · · ·
hones t
with
you.
Again, going
back the re
in
Cuba,
you
know
what
I
mean?
I met a l o t of people , bu t , hey,
you fo rge t .
Q
Don t
you
remember t a l k i ng with
him in
September of 1960, about
an
a s s a s s ina t ion p lo t
on
Cast ro?
A I d o n t r e c a l l r e a l l y ; I hones t ly
d o n t
r e c a l l .
Q
o you remember meet ing Sam
Giancanna?
A
No,
I d o n t r e c a l l ever
meet ing
- -
Q
Dominick Bar tone?
A Yes.
Q Mart in Fox?
A Mart in
Fox,
you mean?
Q Yes, Mart in Fox.
A Yes,
he
was
the owner of
Tropicana .
Q You
knew both of those people?
A Oh,
su re .
Q
Edward
Browder?
A I m not su re
o f
Browder .
Q Jack
Youngblood?
A Yeah, I
met him
in Cuba.
Q Hyman Berg?
108
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 105/119
involved
may have
I 'm not sure of
him.
Rober t
McKeowen?
I m not
su re
o f
him e i t h e r .
Q
Q
o you
have
any
knowledge of
fou l p l ay
in the
dea ths
of
John Mart ino?
No.
Q
Manuel
Art me?
No.
Q o
you
have
any
i n fo rma t i on
t h a t
Mar t
been
ac t ing as a double agent?
T h e re s no
conc re t e
evidence ; no.
Q
Did
you
ever vo ice
a b e l i e f
t h a t
he wa
a
double
agent?
Well ,
in those t imes , dur i ng those
pa r t i c u l a r e ra s and
so f o r t h , t he r e have
been c e r t a i n
Cubans speak up
which I
be l ieve to t h i s
day , because
j e a lous i e s , have
s t a t e d t h a t Art- ime
pos s i b l y was a
double agent ;
but prove
it how
can
you prove
i t ?
Q Did
you
ever meet a f i lmmaker named
Morgan?
Morgan? What ' s t he o th e r
name?
Q Cra ig Sheldon?
Cra ig
Sheldon?
Yes.
Q Ray Sandstrom?
109
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 106/119
Ray
Sandstrom?
Yes.
Q o you know of any connec t ion between
the CIA
and
Sandstrom?
I be l ieve Ray f lew fo r CIA in Broward,
For t
Lauderda le .
Yeah, I
r ece ived in fo rma t ion t h a t Ra
was working
for
the
CIA.
Q
was E. Howard
Hunt
involved
in
I s r a e l i
I n t e l l i gence?
I m not su re .
I d o n t
know.
Q
o you remember when you l a s t spoke wi
James O Conn er , Spec ia l Agent?
I
d o n t
r e c a l l .
It s probab l y
been
many
years
ago.
Q Did you
have
any
connec t ions wi th
Nava
I n t e l l i gence?
Well , I c a l l e d , I be l ieve
it
was Naval
I n t e l l i g e n c e , when Alex
d i sappea red .
Q Other than
t h a t , you d o n t have
any
connec t i ons with Naval I n t e l l i g e n c e ?
Other than
t h a t ,
I
d o n t
r e c a l l .
Who
knows?
Q
Would you d i s c lo s e the name
of your
Naval or
M i l i t a r y I n t e l l i g e n c e con t ac t in Miami?
I f
we had to in f r on t
of
t he judge ,
ye
110
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 107/119
- -
· · · · · · · · · ~ ~ .
Q But r i g h t now you c la im you have the
pr i v i l ege o f not
d i s c lo s in g ?
A In c losed
se s s ion with the judge , yes ,
I would.
Q o you remember the l a s t t ime you
spoke
with
Mitche l l
Werbel l?
A I
have never , to
my
knowledge ever
spoken
to Mitche l
Werbel l ,
nor
do
I
be l ieve
I
ever
met
him.
Q Did
you
ever have
a
r e l a t i o n s h i p wi t h
Manolo
Reboso
in Opera t ion 40?
A I t r a i ned
Manolo
Reboso be fo re the Bay
of
Pigs .
Q
Did
you
eve r
meet
Guy
Bann i s t e r o r Tom
Beckham?
A I
d o n t be l ieve so.
Q Did
you
s t a r t your
own church?
A
Why
I had
none.
Wel l
I wanted
to s e t
up some
miss ions
in Cent ra l
and
South
America
fo r poor
people
in the
Andes
and
so
fo r th ;
b u t ,
u n f o r t u n a t e l y ,
Watergate des t royed t h a t .
Q
Were
t hose mi ss i ons CIA p r o p r i e t a r y
f ron t s?
I f my coun t ry asked me to
~ e r v e
them
- - - -
111
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 108/119
even today , I would be doubly cau t ious and make su re I
d o n t go to j a i l l i ke I did
in Waterga te .
I
want
it in
w r i t i ng ,
you
know.
Q But
if it
was in
wr i t ing?
C er t a i n l y .
I m
always ready to
go
ahead
and
a i d
my
count ry .
Q Did you
ever
meet
Nino D az?
C e r t a in ly ;
a f r i end
o f mine,
fo r
yea rs .
Q Have you r ece ived any f i n a n c i a l suppor t
from
Genera l
Biddle?
No.
Q Have
you
eve r
worked in any Ant i -Cas t ro
ope ra t ions with a one-armed
man?
We're
going
to have to go
ahead
and ge t
a littl b i t - - when you say - -
Q o you remember
s p e c i f i c a l l y
a one-armed
man
t ha t you worked with?
fo re?
Yes.
Q In an t i - C as t r o ope ra t ions?
Yeah.
Q Would you
d i s c l o s e the name
to us?
No. He' s a CIA - -
Q Are you us ing the same p r i v i l e g e as be -
112
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 109/119
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
A Yes.
Q
You
r e fu s e to
answer due
to n a t i o n a l
s e c u r i t y ?
A
Yes.
I d o n t want to
expose agen t s
be-
cause
I m
not sure whether t hey
a re e i t h e r r e t i r e d t o -
day o r whether
they
a re
still working fo r
t he
govern-
ment.
I
w o u l d n t want to uncover
them,
you know;
un le s s
they
were a l ready uncovered , you know.
Q
I f
t hey a re
i nvo lve d
in
fo r e ig n
o p e r a -
t i o n s ,
you f ee l
t h a t t h a t comes under the Freedom o f
Informat ion Act?
A
Right .
I mean, if I have to in f r o n t
of the judge , no problem.
Q
Did you ever have a connec t i on
w i t h
an
underground o rg a n i z a t i o n t h a t had its headqua r te r s in
Swi tzer l and?
A
Who had
a
headqua r t e rs i n S wi t ze r l and?
Q Yes.
A I d o n t r e c a l l any
headqua r t e r s
in
Swi tze r l and .
Q ow did you meet Wolfredo Navarro?
A
Wolfredo Navarro i s one o f
the
Cuban
e x i l e s ,
him
and hi s fami ly , t h a t
came
in to
e x i l e
from
Cuba.
113
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 110/119
--- ·------- ·------- · · - · · ·- ---------------------------- · -------
Q How
d id
you
meet
him?
A Oh, I d o n t
know;
t h rough
o t h e r
Cuban
f r i e n d s ,
I
gue s s .
Q Where?
A In
t he Uni ted S t a t e s .
Q Did you e v e r meet
La r ry
Schmidt o f
Conserva t i sm USA?
pe op le :
book.
A I
d o n t r e c a l l ; no.
Q
Did you e v e r h e a r
o f
t h e
f o l l o w i n g
MR. WEBERMAN: J u s t read t he whole
list
Q
(By
Mr. Fr iedman)
E.
H. Summers?
A E.
H. Summers?
D o n t
r e c a l l .
Q
Rowena
W
F r e e f i e l d ?
A D o n t r e c a l l .
Q Ted Colby?
A Ted? You
mean
Ed
Colby?
Q No, Ted
Colby.
A Ted Colby?
D o n t
r e c a l l .
Q
You
remember
Ed
Colby?
Q
Ed,
ye s .
I
know
Ed Colby; s u re .
MR. WEBERMAN:
It
was in O s w a l d s n o t e -
THE DEPONENT:
I know
it
114
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 111/119
----1
Q
(By
Mr.
Friedman)
Would
you
d i s c lo s e
where
you met him?
A He
was p a r t
of
Joe Buchanan s group an
of f
and on he
always
c a l l e d me. As
a
mat te r o f f a c t ,
h e s in
town,
h e s on
Miami Beach,
I
th ink ,
somewhere
Q
I s
he in
the t e l ephone book?
A
No.
Q You d o n t know
where
he l i v e s though?
A He
c a l l e d
me
and
sa id
he
would
g e t
a
phone,
t ha t he would c o n t a c t
me; but
he i s
on
Miami
Beach.
Q
You
d o n t know where he
l i ve s ?
A No, I d o n t know where
he
l i v e s .
Q Roman
Harten?
A No.
Q
You know
anybody a t Vantage Press?
MR.
WEBERMAN:
It s a Vani ty
House in
New
York.
They pub l i sh books fo r people
t h a t
c a n t
ge t
a
book pub l i s he r .
THE
DEPONENT:
I v e been i n t ouch wi th
so
many
peop l e , who
knows?
Q
(By Mr. Friedman)
When did you first
s t a r t us i ng the name Frank S t u r g i s as
opposed
to Fran
F i o r i n i ?
- ______________
115
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 112/119
A Well , I v e used a number o f d i f f e r e n t
names a l l th rough ,
you know, my life.
Q
Did you
eve r
use
MR
WEBERMAN: When did you
g e t
THE
DEPONENT:
See, St u r g i s
was un-
covered dur ing
the Waterga te
t h i n g .
My
mother
was
r emar r i ed and I
kept
t h a t away
from
my
a c t i v i t i e s ,
you
know.
Q
{By
Mr.
Fr iedman
When
did
you
g e t
your
name changed to
St u r g i s ?
been
- -
Repor t .
A Oh, it s been so
many yea r s --
Q How o ld were
you when it
was
changed?
A
Who knows?
I
be l i e ve
it might
have
MR WEBERMAN:
It s
in
t he R oc ke f e l l e r
THE
DEPONENT: What da te
did
t he y give?
MR WEBERMAN: 5 3 .
Did you use the name
Q
{By
Mr.
Friedman
Did you
use
t he nam
St u r g i s p r i o r
to
1953?
A
No.
I always used F i o r i n i .
Q
Did you use
S t u r g i s
p r i o r to
1953?
A
No.
No;
on ly
when
my
name was changed
116
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 113/119
1
because my s t e p f a t h e r , because
of
my s t e p fa the r ,
hi s
name was Ralph
S tu rg i s .
Q So
in 1953, you adopted
the name S t u r g i s
l ega l l y?
A
Yes.
Q And from t h a t
t ime
forward
you
s h i f t e d
from
F i o r i n i to
S tu rg i s ?
A only
use
F i o r i n i except on ly
on
l e ga l
m a t t e r s .
Q
o you
remember how o ld you were when
your mother
remarr i ed?
A God
c a n t remember.
b e l i e v e
she
was marr ied
e i t h e r i n Ca ro l ina
or ,
you know,
o r
in
Virg in ia .
Q
Are
t he r e
any o th e r wi tnesses b e s id e s
your immediate r e l a t i v e s and
Gera ld ine
Shamma,
to
v e r i f
your whereabouts
on
November 22, 1963?
A Yes.
Q Who a re they?
A Wil l iam
Johnson,
we
c a l l
him
B i l l
Johnson.
Q Where
i s he?
A
He
l i ve s
here
in
San
Souc i E s t a t e s in
11iami, Dade
County.
117
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 114/119
•
------ ·
· · ~ · ----
· · -
Do you know
anybody e l s e ?
A
His t e l e phone n1.lllber i s 893-6013 .
J im Buchanan, as
a mat t e r o f
f a c t ,
I
b e l i e v e J im
Buchanan
came to my house on t h a t d a t e of
November t h e 22nd, him and I went o f f
t he
day o f
t he
J .
F.
K.
a s s a s s i n a t i o n .
Q Anybody
e l s e
you remember?
A
Those
t h r e e : G e ra ld ine Shamma,
J im
Buchanan,
Wil l i am Johnson ,
my
nephew,
J im
Hunt
MR. WEBERMAN:
What d id you tell t he
Rockefe l l e r
Commission?
THE DEPONENT:
The
same
t h i n g .
MR. WEBER.MAN:
But
they
s a i d it
was
on
c l o s e r e l a t i v e s .
MR. FRIEDMAN:
You
have
to l ook a t h i s
t e s t im ony .
t h
MR.
WEBERMAN:
No, it s r e p r i n t e d in
c o u r t .
THE DEPONENT: Oh, y o u ' r e
t a l k i n g
a b o u
t he
R o c k e f e l l e r Repor t .
I 'm
s o r r y .
You ' re r i g h t .
I
g l a d
you
brough t
t h a t
up, because j u s t
r e c e n t l y ,
b e-
cause o f all t he p u b l i c i t y , pe op le d id c o n t a c t me and
tell me, Hey,
you remember
t h i s ,
t h i s , t h i s ? I f you
need any
he l p , f i ne .
--
118
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 115/119
.
·
· · -··• - ---------------------
- - - ·
Well ,
I
t o ld Fonzi and Fonzi
supposed l y ,
I m
no t su re whether he has a l r eady been in t ouch
with
these
people
o r
no t ,
but he i s aware
of t he se
peop l e
t h a t I came
across .
So
I t u rned
it over
- -
MR WEBERMAN:
But you d o n t
know
whe
t h e r we can l oca t e Jim Buchanan, where we
can
l o c a t e
him?
Washington,
D
us i s wrong.
THE DEPONENT:
No, I
d o n t .
Whereupon, the defendant Weberman
had
of f - t he - r e c o rd
d i s c u s s io n wi t h
h is
counse l . )
MR
WEBERMAN: You t o l d Canf i e ld
it
was
c.
THE
DEPONENT: No. No.
MR WEBERMAN:
I v e
got it
on
t a pe .
THE
DEPONENT: I m
so r ry . Then one
of
MR WEBERMAN:
You d o n t know where it
i s , but you were watching t e l e v i s i o n .
THE
DEPONENT:
Because I was home.
1
MR
FRIEDMAN:
Good.
Bring the
t ape
i n .
You made a mistake
THE DEPONENT: I could
have - -
MR WEBERMAN:
so
you
w e re n t
working
119
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 116/119
t h a t day?
THE DEPONENT:
I was a t home and I d i d
l eave
the house .
Supposedly
Jim Buchanan came and t o l d
me t h ~ I went with him and left t he house wi t h him.
Q
(By Mr. Friedman)
Poss ib ly you
were
a t
Lum s
on
27th Avenue?
A
I
d o n t know.
The
CIA goes t o , t h e y use
Hol iday
Inn.
Lum s i s
FBI
- - no, no,
I m
g e t t i n g
a l l
mixed
up, who goes to
what .
Denny s i s
FBI.
Q Have you worked
with
Mari ta Lorens on a
many ope ra t ions?
A A few.
Q
o
you
remember
t he Albanian Code
Miss ion?
o you
remember
working with
her
on
t h a t ?
A
Well ,
l e t me
say
t h i s .
See
MR
RUBIN:
ust say Yes
or No .
THE DEPONENT:
Yes,
t h a t s
r i g h t .
Q
(By
Mr.
Friedman)
What was i t ?
A
I m
s o r r y .
I
c a n t
go
i n t o
t h a t
because
I t u rned a l l o f t h a t i n fo rma t i on over t o t he C e n t r a l
I n t e l l i g e n c e
Committee.
It s fede ra l agenc ie s t h a t a r e
i nvo l ved .
Q
Did you work
with
he r on t he Cold Cream
120
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 117/119
· ~ - - - - · · · ·
---------·-··-·---------
- · · · · · · - ' · · - - - · - · · - - ~ -
Caper?
A Yes.
Q
Wo uldn t
you
c o n s i d e r
her
and
Gera ld ine
Shamma, her
and Gera ld ine
Shamma, as
your
two
top
female ope ra t ive s?
A I
c o n s i d e r
them,
because
I
have r e c r u i t -
ed
o the r
people , I r e c ru i t e d
them a t
t h a t
p a r t i c u l a r
t ime
they
were very
i mpor t an t peop l e .
Q
hy
did
Mari ta t u rn on you and
accuse
you of
t r y in g to k i l l
her?
A
I
d o n ' t know.
I 'm
on ly
t e l l i n g you
- -
Q o you
t h ink
s h e ' s c razy o r do you t h in k
she
was
pushed
by
A. J . Weberman?
A Again, I w i l l go ahead
and
r e pe a t ,
t h a t
when she came out with these accusa t ions n the paper
and I
con tac t ed
with
he r ,
she t o l d metha t
she
rece ived
a
l o t of
p re s su re
to do t h a t .
Q
From
whom?
Did
she
say
A.
J .
Weberman?
I
She
sa id
other
people .
I
Q
Did
she
use
the
i n i t i a l s
A.
J .
Weberman?/
I
A
No,
she
d i d n ' t
use
A.
J .
Weberman.
Q
J u s t
Weberman?
A
This
i s
why
she
sen t
me
t h e t i c k e t
to
come
up
the re
because
she was
going
to
tell
me - -
121
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 118/119
- - - - - - - - - - · - - -
· ·
· · · · · · · ---------
Q
D id n t want to
t a l k on
the phone?
A I
a s ~ ~ m e you know, t h a t , w e l l ,
what
t he
he l l i s going on? You know,
t h a t , okay, if Weberman,
you know, i s p u t t i n g
p r e s s u r e on
he r , who a re t h e s e
o the r people?
This i s why I went to New
York upon,
you
know,
her sending me
the
t i c k e t ,
to
f ind
ou t who and
what
the pres su re s
were
in her making
t he se
accus a t i ons
MR.
RUBIN:
T h a t s
it
L e t s
go.
We waive s ign ing .
Thereupon, t he t ak ing
of
t he
depos i t ion
of
FRANK A. STURGIS
was concluded a t
5:30
p.m.)
122
8/20/2019 Deposition of Frank Fiorini Sturgis in Hunt v. Weberman
http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/deposition-of-frank-fiorini-sturgis-in-hunt-v-weberman 119/119
I
~ T T
t
OF FLORIDA
CERTIFICATE
OF
COURT
REPORTER
COUNTY OF DADE
I ,
CARRIE JANE McGAREY
a / k / a C a r r i e Jane
Holland) , a Bi l ingua l Ce r t i f i e d Shor thand Repor te r and
NotaryPublic in
and for
the S ta t e of
Flor ida
a t Large,
hereby
c e r t i f y
t ha t
a t
the
t ime
and
p lace
here inabove
s e t fo r t h
the re came before
me one FRANK A. STURGIS, w
was by
me
f i r s t duly caut ioned and sworn then c a r e f u l l y
examined; t ha t h i s sworn t es t imony was reduced to t ype
wr i t t e n form
by
me persona l ly
from
my
Pitman shor thand
notes ; and
t ha t the read ing , s ign ing
and f i l i n g o f
Not
were waived by counsel for the
re spec t ive p a r t i e s .
I fu r the r c e r t i f y t h a t I am not r e l a t e d to
o
employed by any of the p a r t i e s to t h i s cause , nor am I
f i na nc i a l l y i n t e r e s t e d in
the
outcome of same.
WIT NESS WHEREOF, I hereunto s e t my
o f f i c i a l
sea l a t Miami, F l o r i d a , t h i s 1 s t day
o f
June ,
197 8 .
· ~ o
.;r
, ' .
My C c ; ; H T 1 ~ 1 ~ .
E A o r l ~
.> 1. 1 o
SondP <I htu
:
J r 1 UO J• n t: J 1 : ; - . c