debate - 9/11 forensic evidence, holocaust denial & freedom of thought

8/9/2019 Debate - 9/11 Forensic Evidence, Holocaust Denial & Freedom of Thought

1/45

What follows is a debate regarding the forensic evidence related to9/11, holocaust denial, and freedom of thought. A Muslim using thename Ansar is debating with three Zionists. Their purpose was tocounter the forensic evidence discrediting the official 9/11 storypresented by Ansar.

The debate starts off with a discussion about the March, 2005 issueof Popular Mechanics (PM) propagandistic cover story entitled"Debunking 9/11 Lies", which sought to discredit all independent9/11 research that challenged the official version of the 9/11 event.

This was an open debate on the Crunchyroll forum, and as suchother members of the forum could make comments. Some of thosecomments have been included. I think it is of particular importanceto take note of the techniques employed by the three Zionists atdifferent points in the debate to discredit the 9/11 forensic evidencepresented. These techniques are addressed by Ansar. I believe youwill find this to be a very interesting read especially for those whoare not familiar with the 9/11 forensic evidence. Make sure to checkout the links referred to in the debate. Most surprising of all is howthe debate ends.

**********************************************************************************

There are tons of people who wrote books and are already

debunking popular mechanics and there are many who are also

questioning how they did their research.

leviathan343 wrote:

So apparently a bunch of conspiracy bloggers sitting at home on their computers is more credible than

Popular Mechanics, a magazine dedicated to science and technology since 1902?

Fine, I'll bite - let's see the 'tons of people' of who wrote books that debunks Popular Mechanics. Link

please.


2/45

Ansar43 cr points

Send Message:

34

Edit PermalinkReplyQuote

Posted Sep 7, 2008, edited Sep 7, 2008

leviathan343 wrote:

So apparently a bunch of conspiracy bloggers sitting at home on their computers ismore credible than Popular Mechanics, a magazine dedicated to science and

technology since 1902?

I find this discussion about the Popular Mechanics article very interesting. I

also find the labeling such as "a bunch of conspiracy bloggers sitting athome on their computers" very extremist and judgmental. Contrast that with"Popular Mechanics, a magazine dedicated to science and technology since

1902". Well without saying so we are being told who the bad guy and thegood guy is. Nice ploy used in the wording to influence the mind but does it

represent reality?

Let's take a look briefly at who wrote the so-called debunking article forPopular Mechanics. But first I hope we all know that Michael Chertoff is our

Homeland Security chief. A little background on Mr. Chertoff for futurereference. His mother was the first Israeli Mossad agent, his father was a

Rabbi and he is a dual Israeli citizen. Under his orders the 200+ Israeli spiescaught around the time of 9/11 and the Israeli Mossad agents who werecaught videotaping the WTC 9/11 attacks, celebrating, hi-fying and dancing

with glee -- while the WTC towers were burning and thousands ofAmericans were suffering and dying -- were all set free and deported to

Israel. I think we all know that the Homeland Security Agency is an

agency which owes its very existence to the establishment version of

the 9/11 attacks.

Well now it just so happens that the person who wrote the PopularMechanics seriously flawed and much debunked article, parroting theestablishment version of 9/11 was none other than Benjamin Chertoff,

Michael Chertoff's cousin. (Nice cousin ain't he making sure Mike's job is

very secure. )

Hiding behind the good name and reputation of Popular Mechanics,Benjamin Chertoff could be charged with collusion. What is also mostinteresting is how he reacted when an investigative journalist confronted

him about this.

Because the manager of public relations for Popular Mechanics didn't respond to

repeated calls from American Free Press, I called Benjamin Chertoff, the magazine's"senior researcher," directly.

Chertoff said he was the "senior researcher" of the piece. When asked if he was

related to Michael Chertoff, he said, "I don't know." Clearly uncomfortable aboutdiscussing the matter further, he told me that all questions about the article should
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3/45

be put to the publicist, the one who never answers the phone.

Benjamin's mother in Pelham, New York, however, was more willing to talk. Asked ifBenjamin was related to the new Secretary of Homeland Security, Judy said, "Yes,of course, he is a cousin."

http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=66176

leviathan3432633 cr points

Send Message:19 / M / New York City,

NY

Permalink ReplyQuote


Ansarwrote:

So apparently a bunch of conspiracy bloggers sitting at home on their computers ismore credible than Popular Mechanics, a magazine dedicated to science and

technology since 1902?

I find this discussion about the Popular Mechanics article very interesting. I also findthe labeling such as "a bunch of conspiracy bloggers sitting at home on theircomputers" very extremist and judgmental. Contrast that with "Popular Mechanics, a

magazine dedicated to science and technology since 1902". Well without saying sowe are being told who the bad guy and the good guy is. Nice ploy used in the

wording to influence the mind but does it represent reality?

Let's take a look briefly at who wrote the so-called debunking article for PopularMechanics. But first I hope we all know that Michael Chertoff is our HomelandSecurity chief. A little background on Mr. Chertoff for future reference. His mother

was the first Israeli Mossad agent, his father was a Rabbi and he is a dual Israelicitizen. Under his orders the 200+ Israeli spies caught around the time of 9/11 andthe Israeli Mossad agents who were caught videotaping the WTC 9/11 attacks,celebrating, hi-fying and dancing with glee -- while the WTC towers were burningand thousands of Americans were suffering and dying -- were all set free and

deported to Israel. I think we all know that the Homeland Security Agency is an

agency which owes its very existence to the establishment version of the 9/11

attack.

Well now it just so happens that the person who wrote the Popular Mechanicsseriously flawed and much debunked article, parroting the establishment version of

9/11 was none other than Benjamin Chertoff, Michael Chertoff's cousin. (Nice cousin

ain't he making sure Mike's job is very secure. )

Hiding behind the good name and reputation of Popular Mechanics, BenjaminChertoff could be charged with collusion. What is also most interesting is how hereacted when an investigative journalist confronted him about this.
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=66176http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=66176http://www.crunchyroll.com/user/leviathan343http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-181651/was-september-11-an-inside-job-by-the-us/?fpid=16044357http://tmp/sv252.tmp/javascript:void(0);http://tmp/sv252.tmp/javascript:void(0);http://www.crunchyroll.com/quoteforumpost?id_list[]=16044357http://www.crunchyroll.com/user/Ansarhttp://www.crunchyroll.com/user/Ansarhttp://www.crunchyroll.com/dialog_addcomment?gb_id=2261582http://www.crunchyroll.com/dialog_addpm/?recipients=leviathan343http://www.crunchyroll.com/user/leviathan343http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=66176http://www.crunchyroll.com/user/leviathan343http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-181651/was-september-11-an-inside-job-by-the-us/?fpid=16044357http://tmp/sv252.tmp/javascript:void(0);http://www.crunchyroll.com/quoteforumpost?id_list[]=16044357http://www.crunchyroll.com/user/Ansar


4/45

Because the manager of public relations for Popular Mechanics didn't respond torepeated calls from American Free Press, I called Benjamin Chertoff, the magazine's

"senior researcher," directly.

Chertoff said he was the "senior researcher" of the piece. When asked if he wasrelated to Michael Chertoff, he said, "I don't know." Clearly uncomfortable about

discussing the matter further, he told me that all questions about the article shouldbe put to the publicist the one who never answers the phone.

Benjamin's mother in Pelham, New York, however, was more willing to talk. Asked ifBenjamin was related to the new Secretary of Homeland Security, Judy said, "Yes,of course, he is a cousin."


Please address the Popular Mechanics article itself and stop makingpersonal attacks. Perhaps the reason they were unwill ing to address the

issue is because people are stupid enough to make dumb assumptions likethe one you are making right now. I've noticed that you claimed the article isseriously flawed, but yet you haven't posted a single example why.

In other words, stop trolling.

Ansar43 cr points

Send Message:34


Posted Sep 7, 2008

leviathan343 wrote:

Please address the Popular Mechanics article itself and stop making

personal attacks. Perhaps the reason they were unwill ing to address the

issue is because people are stupid enough to make dumb assumptions like

the one you are making right now. I've noticed that you claimed the article is

seriously flawed, but yet you haven't posted a single example why.


Haha... In other words you should learn to READ FORCOMPREHENSION!!! Obviously you missed what I wrote to manufacture

your own deception. Simply amazing! Let me just show you a few facts thatyou missed:

1. Michael Chertoff is the Homeland Security chief2. Michael Chertoff was responsible for releasing more than 200 Israelispies who the FBI initially arrested and believed had something to do with

9/11
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5/45

3. Michel Chertoff mother was the first Israeli Mossad agent and his father aRabbi4. Michael Chertoff has dual U.S. and Israeli citizenship. (In other words he

is an Israeli firster and hard core Zionist)5. The position of Homeland Security chief is based on the establishment

version about the events of 9/116. Benjamin Chertoff is Michael Chertoff's cousin7. Benjamin Chertoff wrote the Popular Mechanics seriously flawed and

much debunked article, parroting the establishment version of 9/118. Benjamin Chertoff initially LIED about Michael Chertoff being his cousin

Seems like there are 8 facts that you missed and perhaps more. I suggestthat you re-read my post for more or backup your claims by proving what I

wrote to not be facts. Now if you wanted me to point out the flaws in thePopular Mechanics article you could have humbly and courteously asked

w/o calling me a troll. Rather than make this post too long to cause you to

get confused again, I will make a second post. How's that?

Ansar43 cr points

Send Message:34

Edit PermalinkReplyQuotePosted Sep 7, 2008, edited Sep 7, 2008

leviathan343 wrote:

Please address the Popular Mechanics article itself and stop making personalattacks. Perhaps the reason they were unwilling to address the issue is because

people are stupid enough to make dumb assumptions like the one you are makingright now. I've noticed that you claimed the article is seriously flawed, but yet youhaven't posted a single example why.


There are numerous flaws in the Popular Mechanics article and a few that I

will quickly mention are below. I will also point you to two articles for moreinfo:

1. The buildings fell at near free fall speed as if they were falling at thespeed of gravity. Even with Popular Mechanics false claim about meltedsteel and pancaking effect that is impossible. There would be significant

friction from the opposing structure of the building to slow down thedemolition like fall of the building to be nowhere near free fall or it won't fall

that way at all.

2. Only way for the WTC buildings to fall as they did on 9/11 was for them to

be pre-wired for demolition and a substance like thermate used to cut the
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6/45

steel columns to allow the near free fall speed of the collapse of thebuilding. Physicist, Dr. Steven Jones proved from the existence of moltensteel that the same byproducts of a thermate reaction were found.

3. Numerous reports from firemen, eyewitnesses, maintenance workers,

media, etc. were made regarding bombs going off in the building. Exactlythe MO that will explain what would cause the buildings to collapse the waythey did.

4. What caused WTC 7 to fall EXACTLY the same way as the other twotowers that were hit by planes? After all WTC 7 was not hit by a plane but it

had the exact same symptoms as the 2 other buildings that were hit.

5. The is the first time in history that high rise buildings supposedly werepancaked demolished as a result of fire. There are numerous reports aboutother high rise buildings that burned for several hours much longer than the

WTC towers did but they never collapsed as they did. Why?

6. The Pentagon was supposedly hit by a plane. Nowhere near was the

damage observed by planes hitting the WTC in NY nor was there anyevidence that a plane the size of a 767 actually hit the Pentagon.

There are more, but I will start here. One article debunking the PopularMechanics theory nicely points out:

"But the March 2005 issue of Popular Mechanics (PM) plumbs new

depths of nepotism and Hearst-style "yellow journalism" with its cover

story about 9/11. PM's senior researcher, 25-year-old Benjamin

Chertoff, authored a propagandistic cover story entitled "Debunking

9/11 Lies" which seeks to discredit all independent 9/11 research that

challenges the official version of events.

"Conspiracy theories can't stand up to the hard facts," the cover

reads. "After an in-depth investigation, PM answers with the truth," it

says. But the article fails to provide evidence to support its claims and

doesn't answer the key question: What caused the collapses of the

twin towers and the 47-story World Trade Center 7?

The lead editorial by James Meigs, Editor-in-Chief of PM carries the

title "The Lies Are Out There." It continues: "As a society we accept

the basic premise that a group of Islamist terrorists hijacked four

airplanes and turned them into weapons against us."

"But do we, "as a society" accept this basic premise? None of the 19

"Islamist terrorists" were even found on the passenger lists that day."

"Sadly," Meigs continues, "the noble search for truth is now being

hijacked by a growing army of conspiracy theorists."


7/45

"What Meigs fails to acknowledge is that while the fact that a

conspiracy is behind the 9/11 attacks is obvious, the question being

raised by independent researchers is: Who was involved in this

conspiracy?"

"The Meigs' editorial concludes, "But those who peddle fantasies thatthis country encouraged, permitted or actually carried out the attacks

are libeling the truth and disgracing the memories of the thousands

who died on that day."

"Nobody says that the United States of America did anything on 9/11,

Mr. Meigs. "This country," the USA doesn't do anything, Mr. Meigs,

people do. In the case of 9/11 we are dealing with a very small group

of people, perhaps no more than a dozen or so at the highest

"architectural" level, and there is no guarantee that they are from any

one country most likely they are not."


Intranetusa801 cr points

Send Message:

21 / M / United Statesof...


Posted Sep 7, 2008

Ansar, regarding your previous, post.

I've already addressed every single thing you said, ranging from the free-fallof the WTC Twin Towers to the WTC 7 falling in the same fashion as the

Two Towers (both fell due to damage from fires, duh).

Why don't you answer some of these questions first:

1. Why would the government do this? To go to Iraq to make their ownapproval ratings drop?

2. How did the government pull this off, without letting other countries (otherintelligence agencies, etc)know? Instead, the only people talking about conspiracy are internetbloggers.

The government can't even build power stations in Iraq, and can't even

deliver food on time to Katrina survivors...how did they pull off the mostcomplex attack on US soil since Pearl Harbor?
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8/45

3. No matter how corrupt politicians may be, there would be thousands ofwhistle blowers in the top levels of government...where are they? You forget

that our government is still elected by the people...even Soviet Russia underKhrushchev couldn't have done something like this.

4. If thermite was used, how did they sneak the tons and tons of thermitebombs into the buildings, past security and office workers?

Report to Mod

drizza3903 cr points

Send Message:

M / Yo Mommas House

Permalink ReplyQuotePosted Sep 8, 2008, edited Sep 8, 2008

leviathan343 wrote:

Ansarwrote:

So apparently a bunch of conspiracy bloggers sitting at home on their computers is

more credible than Popular Mechanics, a magazine dedicated to science andtechnology since 1902?

I find this discussion about the Popular Mechanics article very interesting. I also findthe labeling such as "a bunch of conspiracy bloggers sitting at home on their

computers" very extremist and judgmental. Contrast that with "Popular Mechanics, amagazine dedicated to science and technology since 1902". Well without saying sowe are being told who the bad guy and the good guy is. Nice ploy used in the

wording to influence the mind but does it represent reality?

Let's take a look briefly at who wrote the so-called debunking article for PopularMechanics. But first I hope we all know that Michael Chertoff is our Homeland

Security chief. A little background on Mr. Chertoff for future reference. His motherwas the first Israeli Mossad agent, his father was a Rabbi and he is a dual Israelicitizen. Under his orders the 200+ Israeli spies caught around the time of 9/11 and

the Israeli Mossad agents who were caught videotaping the WTC 9/11 attacks,celebrating, hi-fying and dancing with glee -- while the WTC towers were burningand thousands of Americans were suffering and dying -- were all set free and

deported to Israel. I think we all know that the Homeland Security Agency is an

agency which owes its very existence to the establishment version of the 9/11

attack.

Well now it just so happens that the person who wrote the Popular Mechanics

seriously flawed and much debunked article, parroting the establishment version of
http://tmp/sv252.tmp/javascript:void(0)http://www.crunchyroll.com/user/drizzahttp://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-181651/was-september-11-an-inside-job-by-the-us/?fpid=16071902http://tmp/sv252.tmp/javascript:void(0);http://tmp/sv252.tmp/javascript:void(0);http://www.crunchyroll.com/quoteforumpost?id_list[]=16071902http://www.crunchyroll.com/user/leviathan343http://www.crunchyroll.com/user/Ansarhttp://www.crunchyroll.com/user/Ansarhttp://www.crunchyroll.com/dialog_addcomment?gb_id=1045018http://www.crunchyroll.com/dialog_addpm/?recipients=drizzahttp://www.crunchyroll.com/user/drizzahttp://tmp/sv252.tmp/javascript:void(0)http://tmp/sv252.tmp/javascript:void(0)http://tmp/sv252.tmp/javascript:void(0)http://tmp/sv252.tmp/javascript:void(0)http://tmp/sv252.tmp/javascript:void(0)http://www.crunchyroll.com/user/drizzahttp://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-181651/was-september-11-an-inside-job-by-the-us/?fpid=16071902http://tmp/sv252.tmp/javascript:void(0);http://www.crunchyroll.com/quoteforumpost?id_list[]=16071902http://www.crunchyroll.com/user/leviathan343http://www.crunchyroll.com/user/Ansar


9/45

9/11 was none other than Benjamin Chertoff, Michael Chertoff's cousin. (Nice cousin

ain't he making sure Mike's job is very secure. )

Hiding behind the good name and reputation of Popular Mechanics, BenjaminChertoff could be charged with collusion. What is also most interesting is how hereacted when an investigative journalist confronted him about this.

Because the manager of public relations for Popular Mechanics didn't respond torepeated calls from American Free Press, I called Benjamin Chertoff, the magazine's"senior researcher," directly.

Chertoff said he was the "senior researcher" of the piece. When asked if he wasrelated to Michael Chertoff, he said, "I don't know." Clearly uncomfortable aboutdiscussing the matter further, he told me that all questions about the article shouldbe put to the publicist the one who never answers the phone.

Benjamin's mother in Pelham, New York, however, was more willing to talk. Asked if

Benjamin was related to the new Secretary of Homeland Security, Judy said, "Yes,

of course, he is a cousin."


Please address the Popular Mechanics article itself and stop making personalattacks. Perhaps the reason they were unwilling to address the issue is becausepeople are stupid enough to make dumb assumptions like the one you are makingright now. I've noticed that you claimed the article is seriously flawed, but yet you

haven't posted a single example why.


LOL! Terrible failure while you call him a troll you dont make any attempts

at refuting him. You just pass judgment. The only dumb assumption I see isyour trying to undermine his intell igence because he thinks differently from

Popular Mechanics. Personal attacks??? What personal attacks? He justgave you some specific details about the credibility of Popular Mechanics.He is dead on topic with this thread and hasnt threatened anyone. He isnt

even spamming like a forum troll would do and that was his very first poston this topic which was in great detail. Now he is presenting you withevidence and questions you cant even answer. You lose and you failed at

making him look dumb. You actually only make yourself look dumb.

Report to Mod

Imma' get you Sucka!

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10/45

Posted Sep 8, 2008

Can't this thread get locked? Only the sight of it makes me want to puke,

and when I see what people write in here, then it's...lol pretty much like ashock wave going through my body. Too stupid.

Oh America, America, why is it that there are so many wannabe SherlockHolmes idiots?

Floetry~

Report to Mod

Sade Adu - By your side

drizza3903 cr points

Send Message:

M / Yo Mommas House



Do not lock this thread!!! This is an eye opener and allows one to see theother side of the story about this issue. There is nothing offensive, just

debates on this important issue that influenced the decisions ourgovernment makes. There is no racism, sexism, or topics on peoplesreligions, only politics. What is offensive about politics? Perfect topic for

extended discussion because you see people going back and forth bringing

evidence etc to the table. If this thread does get locked that would be veryodd. Because someone has a different view of an event he cannot evenbring it up for a debate? Even though he has researched it and provided

evidence, it must stay silent because we have to accept the mainstream

view? There are far worse topics on this website and this is extremely minor

compared to the religious threads, sexists threads, racism threads, andhomosexual threads. If this thread is offensive to you (I dont see how and it

follows every guideline to warrant it to be an extended discussion) best betis just not to read it anymore. For those who are curious and alwayswondered why people believe this view on 9-11 being an inside job keep on

reading.

I dont think educational threads like this should be locked. It shows thepower of the internet -- allowing the freedom of debates that can never takeplace in the real world. LOL! Protect the first amendment right to free

speech. It was put forth not in order to protect popular speech but to protectunpopular speech as well.
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11/45

Ansar43 cr points

Send Message:

34


Posted Sep 8, 2008

Intranetusa wrote:

Ansar, regarding your previous, post.

I've already addressed every single thing you said, ranging from the free-fall of theWTC Twin Towers to the WTC 7 falling in the same fashion as the Two Towers(both fell due to damage from fires, duh).

REALLY??? I would LOVE to see that. I have only seen where you offered

some weak opinions but no factual refutation. Even your statement aboutthe damage from fires is nonsense. Never before -- or even after 9/11 -- hasa steel structured building been brought down by fire. Steel melts at about

2800 degrees Fahrenheit. The highest possible temperature reached by jetfuel (kerosene) fires is 1000 degrees less. Furthermore, UnderwritersLaboratories have certified the steel up to 2000 degrees for up to 3 to 4

hours. The billowing black clouds seen in the WTC fires indicate that theywere oxygen starved fires and could not reach more than 500 degrees. The

WTC buildings burned for 1 to 1 hours. The temperature of the fires

was too low and the length of time burned was too short to even melt

the steel structures at the WTC buildings. The Underwriters specs list

2000 degrees and 3 to 4 hours to even begin affecting the steel and ALLother situations before and even after 9/11 showed that steel structured

buildings never collapse as a result of fire!!! Why the exception for the WTCbuildings on 9/11 and how come all evidence points to bombs going off as

has been cited by numerous eyewitnesses, journalists, firemen, etc???

Truth seekers and others interested can go to the following link for more

about this:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6847507648836588010

I will answer each of your questions in the following posts.

Ansar43 cr points



Intranetusa wrote:

1. Why would the government do this? To go to Iraq to make their own approval
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12/45

Send Message:

34

ratings drop?

Your questions are based on what YOU think are important and the limited

views you have on things. They are not absolute criteria for anything. I just

want that to be very clear to you and others reading this.

The assumption that approval ratings should be enough of deterrence forgoing to war with Iraq is asinine. With the American public overwhelminglywanting the troops to come home and the Iraq war to end, the following was

done by government showing how much they cared for public approval:

After winning 2 terms and having full bipartisan support for all of theiractions to fully accomplish their goals, approval ratings are of no concern toBush and the Neocons. When Bush asked for a $107 billion budget for the

Iraq war the Democrats actually approved a $162 billion budget for him.Obama publicly praised the passing of the new FISA bill giving immunity to

telecommunications firms that participated in Bushs illegal wiretapping after9/11. Biden takes pride and even claims credit for the Patriot Act. So the topdemocrats are all in line with Bush.

"Since Pelosi and Reid took over Congress, the Congress has funded theIraq war without even a symbolic condition. It has rejected every proposal to

limit war spending. It has enacted one right-wing proposal after the next,from warrantless surveillance and telecom immunity to declaring parts of theIranian Government a "terrorist organization." It passed a housing bill and

"stimulus" package approved by the administration. It has done nothing toreverse the radical executive power theories and has done much to

institutionalize them. If there is one predominant trait of the Congress over

the past several years, it has been a willingness to grant every item on thePresident's wish list regardless of whether Democrats or Republicans are in

control."

This idea of approval ratings being a deterrent to going to war in Iraq is astraw man having no basis in reality! But at the same time I am not sayingthat the Republicans or Democrats pulled off 9/11. I am saying that the

Israelis along with corrupt elements in our government masterminded andpulled off 9/11. This cabal who gained huge benefits from 9/11 isbipartisan mainly consisting of a smaller number of Israeli firster Neocons

and other members in government.

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13/45

Ansar43 cr points

Send Message:34


Intranetusa wrote:

2. How did the government pull this off, without letting other countries (otherintelligence agencies, etc)

know? Instead, the only people talking about conspiracy are internet bloggers.

This is a false assumption. In fact there have been a great deal of concernabout 9/11 being a false flag operation and inside job from foreigners. Let

me list a few examples:

1. General Gul Hamid, who was the director General of the Pakistani

Intelligence Services and a close ally of America said the following:

"Mossad and its American associates are the obvious culprits. Who benefits

from the crime? The attacks against the twin towers started at 8:45 a.m. andfour flights are diverted from their assigned air space and no air trafficcontroller sounds the alarm. And no Air Force jets scramble until 10 a.m.

That also smacks of a small scale Air Force rebellion, a coup against thePentagon perhaps? Radars are jammed, transponders fail. No IFF -- friend

or foe identification -- challenge. In Pakistan, if there is no response to IFF,jets are instantly scrambled and the aircraft is shot down with no furtherquestions asked. This was clearly an inside job. Bush was afraid and rushed

to the shelter of a nuclear bunker. He clearly feared a nuclear situation.

Who could that have been? Will that also be hushed up in the investigation,like the Warren report after the Kennedy assassination?

2. Andreas von Buelow, PhD Former State Secretary of the Federal

Ministry of Defense of West Germany. Former Minister of Research

and Technology. Member of Bundestag (Parliament) 1969-

1994...rejects the official 911 story as in this interview here:

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/VonBuelow.html

--like assailants who, in their preparations, leave tracks

behind them like a herd of stampeding elephants? Theymade payments with credit cards with their own names;they reported to their flight instructors with their ownnames. They left behind rented cars with flight manuals inArabic for jumbo jets. They took with them, on their suicidetrip, wills and farewell letters, which fall into the hands ofthe FBI, because they were stored in the wrong place andwrongly addressed. Clues were left like behind like in a
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14/45

child's game of hide-and-seek, which were to be followed!

3. Michael Shore in Israel states:

It was reported that none of the names of the so-called Arab terrorists wereon any of the passenger lists of any of the four planes involved in 911. Plus,the FBI and CIA with all their multi-billion dollar budgets claimed that they

had no prior information that a "terrorist" act of this magnitude was about tohappen. Yet within 48 hours, the FBI and CIA somehow managed toproduce the pictures and names of 19 Arabs who were supposedly the

"terrorists" on the planes, even though none of their names were on ANY ofthe passenger lists. How did they know? Just because you had an Arab

name, they were able to determine that you were a "terrorist" on the planes?Plus, you may recall, when the names of the "terrorists" were first releasedto the press, there were reports in the media that some of the passports

which the "terrorists" were using may have been stolen and the real names

of the "terrorists" may have been different than the names released to themedia.

http://www.rense.com/general18/myss.htm

4. Japanese Legislator Demands Bush Tell Truth About Sept.11:

Outspoken Japanese politician Yukihisa Fujita does not buy the U.S.federal explanation of 9-11. Fujitachastised his fellow Japanese parliamentarians for accepting the Bush

administration September. 11 tale without any investigation.

In his opening remarks, Fujita described 9-11 as the origin of the war onterrorism. He then told Prime MinisterYasuo Fukuda, We only think it wascaused by al Qaeda because President Bush told us so. He pressed the

prime minister to explain why the Japanese government thinks al Qaedawas responsible for the events of 9-11. It turns out that Japanese officials

merely went along with what they were told by the Bush administrationwithout question in the days following 9-11.

Fujita demanded to know if his government had conducted any 9-11investigations of its own, stating emphatically that 9-11 was a crime againstJapanese citizens as well and thus requires a direct investigation.

http://www.americanfreepress.net/Supplements/Issue_35_911_Report.pdf

5. Francesco Cossiga President of Italy, 1985-1992. Also served as

Former Prime Minister, Undersecretary for Defense, and President of

the Italian Senate.

Article Corriere della Sera, 11/30/07: Mr. Cossiga commenting on apurported new video from Osama bin Laden: "The non-authenticity of the

video is supported by the fact that Osama bin Laden in it 'confessed' that Al
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15/45

Qaeda was responsible for the 9/11 attack on the Twin Towers in New York.However, all of the democratic areas of America and of Europe, with the

Italian center-left in the forefront, now know full well that the disastrousattack was planned and executed by the American CIA and Mossad ... to

falsely incriminate Arabic countries and to persuade the Western Powers to

intervene in Iraq and Afghanistan." Original article in Italian.http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=114778

and many, many more that I will gladly share with you if needed!!!

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Posted Sep 8, 2008

I-Killerbee-I wrote:

Can't this thread get locked? Only the sight of it makes me want to puke, and when I

see what people write in here, then it's...lol pretty much like a shock wave goingthrough my body. Too stupid.

Oh America, America, why is it that there are so many wannabe Sherlock Holmesidiots?

Floetry~

Yes, rather than not read the thread, our so concerned humanitarian wants

to make sure no one else reads it. How caring!!! I wonder why??? If I am aSherlock Holmes idiot then it would be easy for someone like you to refutenot all but just one of my posts. Oh, I guess it is too boring for you to even

consider (a likely excuse ). But drizza said it all. Let free speech and choice

reign! If you don't like what is being said, then YOU don't have to listen. Butif you want to censor information because it is too revealing, then demand

that the thread be locked. How obvious...

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16/45

Ansar43 cr points

Send Message:34

Edit PermalinkReplyQuotePosted Sep 8, 2008

Intranetusa wrote:

3. No matter how corrupt politicians may be, there would be thousands of whistleblowers in the top levels of government...where are they? You forget that our

government is still elected by the people...even Soviet Russia under Khrushchevcouldn't have done something like this.

Oh, but there are hundreds even thousands of them. From governmentofficials to FBI agents, scientists, military officers, journalists, firemen and

others. Here is a link to a few along with their public statements. Theyexpress their disbelief in the official story and place the blame on thegovernment while commenting about the seriously flawed 9/11 Commission

report:

http://www.wanttoknow.info/officialsquestion911commissionreport

Many respected senior members of the military, intelligence services, and

government have expressed significant criticism of the 9/11 CommissionReport. Some even allege government complicity in the terrible acts of 9/11.Below are the highly revealing public statements on this vital topic of over

50 prominent public servants with links for verification and furtherinvestigation.

The collective voices of these respected senior officials along with over 100esteemed professors, over 100 pilots and aviation professionals, and

hundreds of architects and engineers give credibil ity to the claim that the9/11 Commission Report is tragically flawed. These dedicated individualsfrom across the political spectrum are not irresponsible believers in some

9/11 conspiracy theory. Their sincere concern, backed by decades ofservice to their country, demonstrates that criticism of the 9/11 CommissionReport is not only reasonable and responsible, it is in fact a patriotic duty.

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17/45

Ansar43 cr points

Send Message:34


Intranetusa wrote:

4. If thermite was used, how did they sneak the tons and tons of thermite bombs intothe buildings, past security and office workers?

Beats the hell out of me buddy! If I knew exactly, then I would have been

part of the plot!

But others have indicated that ZIM American Israeli shipping companymoved out 1 week before 9/11 from the 17th floor offices of the WTC andlost $50,000 in broken lease fees. FBI agent Mike Dick claimed that Israelis

moved bombs into the vacant offices. According to a non official cover(NOC) CIA source who worked with Dick, Israeli movers moved explosivesinto the 17th Floor office space after Zim moved out.

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=3655

Also Marvin P. Bush, the presidents younger brother, was an owner of thecompany, Securacom, that provided security for the World Trade Center.

Collusion? Collusion? Collusion?

Ansar43 cr points

Send Message:

34



drizza wrote:Nice little sly remark "good luck findind the real culprit" had you been readinganything on this whole thread we already know who was behind 9-11 we are justanswering questions on this debate. Nice try though you still making yourself look

ignorant. I wont respond either because idiots like you are the ones who destroys

these threadsjust flaming rather then actually addressing the topic.

Bingo Drizza! You hit the nail right on the head. That is their whole purpose

to attempt to destroy the thread. You should ignore them and keep on

presenting 911 truths.

You need to familiarize yourself with the "Rules of Disinformation". Many

of them have been used in this thread. Here is a link to a description ofthese rules:
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18/45

http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20050116064744556

The article deals with the rules as it relates to 9/11 info but these rules have

been around for a long time. I am still waiting for Intranetusa and

Leviathan343 to respond. Both are heavy disinfo posters. It seems in theirlack of response to my answers they are using rule #25 which is to VANISH!They know further discussion would only lead to more truth being exposedand their positions severely diminished.

There are many disinfo rules that posters are using here. Two that I haveseen used the most are the following:

5. Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. This is also

known as the primary attack the messenger ploy, though other

methods qualify as variants of that approach. Associate opponents

with unpopular titles such as "kooks", "right-wing", "liberal", "left-

wing", "terrorists", "conspiracy buffs", "radicals", "militia", "racists","religious fanatics", "sexual deviates", and so forth. This makes

others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and

you avoid dealing with issues.

9. Play Dumb. No matter what evidence or logical argument is offered,

avoid discussing issues with denial they have any credibility, make

any sense, provide any proof, contain or make a point, have logic, or

support a conclusion. Mix well for maximum effect.

Killerbee uses rule #9 in all her posts. Become more familiar with these

rules drizza so that you would know exactly where some posters are coming

from.

SeraphAlford10448 cr

points

Send

Message:

Permalink ReplyQuotePosted Jul 21, 2009, edited Jul 22, 2009

Drizza, I went through and I read a couple of your friends posts. I would like to startout by saying that I think youve been lied to. I do not buy for even one minute thatthis guy is a physics professor. Alas, that simply amounts to an ad hominem

argument and Id rather avoid that. So, lets begin by addressing some of his postsand sources.

First off, he claims that Michael Chertoffs mother was the first Mossad agent.

AnsarMichael Chertoff is our Homeland Security chief. His mother was the first Israeli
http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20050116064744556http://www.crunchyroll.com/user/SeraphAlfordhttp://www.crunchyroll.com/user/SeraphAlfordhttp://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-533406/the-zeitgeist-discussion/?fpid=26250876http://tmp/sv252.tmp/javascript:void(0);http://tmp/sv252.tmp/javascript:void(0);http://www.crunchyroll.com/quoteforumpost?id_list[]=26250876http://www.crunchyroll.com/user/Ansarhttp://www.crunchyroll.com/user/Ansarhttp://www.crunchyroll.com/dialog_addpm/?recipients=SeraphAlfordhttp://www.crunchyroll.com/user/SeraphAlfordhttp://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20050116064744556http://www.crunchyroll.com/user/SeraphAlfordhttp://www.crunchyroll.com/user/SeraphAlfordhttp://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-533406/the-zeitgeist-discussion/?fpid=26250876http://tmp/sv252.tmp/javascript:void(0);http://www.crunchyroll.com/quoteforumpost?id_list[]=26250876http://www.crunchyroll.com/user/Ansar


19/45

20 / M

Mossad agent, his father was a Rabbi and he is a dual Israeli citizen.

Mossad was founded in 1949 and Israel didnt being conscripting women until the1960s. Livia Chertoff was the leader of the Congregation Bnai Israel and a flight

attendant, not a Mossad agent. His father was a rabbi and does have a dualcitizenship, but how is this relevant to the topic at hand?

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/050718/18chertoff_2.htm

After attacking Chertoff he claims that the chief of Homeland security hasconnections with Popular Mechanics. He directly cites his source.

Well now it just so happens that the person who wrote the Popular Mechanics seriously flawedand much debunked article, parroting the establishment version of 9/11 was none other thanBenjamin Chertoff, Michael Chertoff's cousin.

Hiding behind the good name and reputation of Popular Mechanics, Benjamin Chertoff could

be charged with collusion. What is also most interesting is how he reacted when aninvestigative journalist confronted him about this.

Because the manager of public relations for Popular Mechanics didn't respond to repeatedcalls from American Free Press, I called Benjamin Chertoff, the magazine's "seniorresearcher," directly.

Chertoff said he was the "senior researcher" of the piece. When asked if he was related to

Michael Chertoff, he said, "I don't know." Clearly uncomfortable about discussing the matterfurther, he told me that all questions about the article should be put to the publicist the onewho never answers the phone.

Benjamin's mother in Pelham, New York, however, was more willing to talk. Asked if Benjaminwas related to the new Secretary of Homeland Security, Judy said, "Yes, of course, he is a

cousin."


What youll notice about this, however, is that his source of information is theAmerican Free Press. As I pointed out earlier, this is a neo-Nazi online news letterthat denies the holocaust and continuously blabbers about the Jewish conspiracy to

conquer the world. Still, this is what we call a generic fallacy. I cannot say that theinformation is wrong simply because the source is unreliable. In this case, however,Ive already pointed out that the accusations made within the neo-Nazi newsletter he

is citing have been proven false.

Don't you remember the link I put up in the 9/11 thread?

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/060903/11conspiracy.htm
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/050718/18chertoff_2.htmhttp://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=66176http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=66176http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/060903/11conspiracy.htmhttp://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/060903/11conspiracy.htmhttp://www.crunchyroll.com/dialog_addcomment?gb_id=1368672http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/050718/18chertoff_2.htmhttp://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=66176http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/060903/11conspiracy.htm


20/45

Ansar

There are numerous flaws in the Popular Mechanics article and a few that I will quickly mentionare below. I will also point you to two articles for more info:

1. The buildings fell at near free fall speed as if they were falling at the speed of gravity. Evenwith Popular Mechanics false claim about melted steel and pancaking effect that is impossible.

There would be significant friction from the opposing structure of the building to slow down thedemolition like fall of the building to be nowhere near free fall or it won't fall that way at all.

2. Only way for the building to fall like that was for it to be pre-wired for demolition and asubstance like thermate used to cut the steel columns to allow the near free fall speed of thecollapse of the building. My fellow physicist, Dr. Steven Jones proved from the existence of

molten steel that the same byproducts of a thermate reaction was found.

Nobody actually knows how fast the building fell, but the professional estimates say

that it took fifteen seconds. That means it was actually much slower than free fallspeed and therefore components one and two of the physics professor, aredebunked.

http://www.911myths.com/html/freefall.html

Some more information on his free fall fallacy based argument can be found at theother websites Ive linked. This, again, is why Im encouraging you to read the links.

http://www.debunking911.com/freefall.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLShZOvxVe4&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Edebunking911%2Ecom%2Ffreefall%2Ehtm&feature=player_embedded

Numerous reports from firemen, eyewitnesses, maintenance workers, media, etc. were maderegarding bombs going off in the building. Exactly the MO that will explain what would cause

the buildings to collapse the way they did.

Once again its a borrowed accusation, not at all his material. The report from whichhe borrowed his material claims that numerous firefighters and other witnesses

reported hearing- explosions inside of the world trade center indicating the use ofdemolitions. However, these explosions do NOT necessarily indicate the use of

demolitions. Even if it was a plane loaded with 10,000 gallons of fuel and notdemolitions they wouldve heard the same explosions.

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2006/05/top-lies-and-deceptions-in-loose.htmlhttp://www.911myths.com/html/accounts_of_explosions.html
http://www.crunchyroll.com/user/Ansarhttp://www.crunchyroll.com/user/Ansarhttp://www.911myths.com/html/freefall.htmlhttp://www.debunking911.com/freefall.htmhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLShZOvxVe4&eurl=http://www.debunking911.com/freefall.htm&feature=player_embeddedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLShZOvxVe4&eurl=http://www.debunking911.com/freefall.htm&feature=player_embeddedhttp://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2006/05/top-lies-and-deceptions-in-loose.htmlhttp://www.911myths.com/html/accounts_of_explosions.htmlhttp://www.crunchyroll.com/user/Ansarhttp://www.911myths.com/html/freefall.htmlhttp://www.debunking911.com/freefall.htmhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLShZOvxVe4&eurl=http://www.debunking911.com/freefall.htm&feature=player_embeddedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLShZOvxVe4&eurl=http://www.debunking911.com/freefall.htm&feature=player_embeddedhttp://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2006/05/top-lies-and-deceptions-in-loose.htmlhttp://www.911myths.com/html/accounts_of_explosions.html


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4. What caused WTC 7 to fall EXACTLY the same way as the other two towers that were hit by

planes? After all WTC 7 was not hit by a plane

That is true but its also misleading. WTC was not hit by a plane but one of the othertowers did fall on top of it causing an equally powerful impact.

5. The is the first time in history that high rise buildings supposedly were pancake demolishedas a result of fire. There are numerous reports about other high rise buildings that burned for

several hours much longer than the WTC towers did but they never collapsed as they did.Why?

6. The Pentagon was supposedly hit by a plane. Nowhere near was the damage observed

by planes hitting the WTC in NY nor was there any evidence that a plane the size ofa 767 actually hit the Pentagon.

Thats just not true.I mean, theres not much to argue about. There either wasdebris and wreckage or there wasnt. But of course there was.

http://www.911myths.com/html/757_wreckage.html

5. The is the first time in history that high rise buildings supposedly were pancaked demolishedas a result of fire. There are numerous reports about other high rise buildings that burned for

several hours much longer than the WTC towers did but they never collapsed as they did.

Why?

Those buildings werent hit by planes and didnt have another building falling on top

of them. This is the first time in history anything like this has happened.

Also, an argument you brought out a while back was that the owner of the WTC

pulled out a huge insurance policy and profited from the explosion as a result.However, Larry Silverstein had already had an insurance policy. He was simply required- to increase the policy because hed begun leasing the building out just a

couple months before 9/11 and that was part of the deal.

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2006/06/larry-silverstein-evil-jewish-landlord.html

So, you see he didnt debunk anything except his silly claim that hes got a degree inphysics from MIT.
http://www.911myths.com/html/757_wreckage.htmlhttp://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2006/06/larry-silverstein-evil-jewish-landlord.htmlhttp://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2006/06/larry-silverstein-evil-jewish-landlord.htmlhttp://www.911myths.com/html/757_wreckage.htmlhttp://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2006/06/larry-silverstein-evil-jewish-landlord.htmlhttp://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2006/06/larry-silverstein-evil-jewish-landlord.html


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Report to Mod

Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could...


Posted Jul 21, 2009

I have trouble shaking off the idea that 9/11 was not an inside job, like some havesaid there were just way too many failures in the system on that day to make it seem

like coincidence. I also would not put it past the Bush family to stir up some false flagattacks and open up a great propaganda machine to get the nation to agree to war,

perhaps the C.I.A. is playing shadow government again like they did after WW II. Asfor the segments on religion I do think these figures in the bible actually could haveexisted but I doubt they had supernatural powers and that God actually exists.

Report to Mod

drizza3903 cr

points

Send

Message:

M / Yo

MommasHouse


Posted Jul 21, 2009

Well I have to bring him on. I will try hard to get him here because like I said I am stillswaying on his side although your info seems credible as well. I am not an expert on

this 9-11 topic, but from what I am seeing it does seem like the government is using9-11 to advance its foreign adventures. I will send him this email of your responses.

This is the most effective way and thanks for the responses.


Posted Jul 24, 2009

Drizza,
http://tmp/sv252.tmp/javascript:void(0)http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-533406/the-zeitgeist-discussion/?fpid=26251694http://tmp/sv252.tmp/javascript:void(0);http://tmp/sv252.tmp/javascript:void(0);http://www.crunchyroll.com/quoteforumpost?id_list[]=26251694http://tmp/sv252.tmp/javascript:void(0)http://www.crunchyroll.com/user/drizzahttp://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-533406/the-zeitgeist-discussion/?fpid=26253134http://tmp/sv252.tmp/javascript:void(0);http://tmp/sv252.tmp/javascript:void(0);http://www.crunchyroll.com/quoteforumpost?id_list[]=26253134http://www.crunchyroll.com/editforumpost?id=26331448&pg=3http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-533406/the-zeitgeist-discussion/?fpid=26331448http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-533406/the-zeitgeist-discussion/?fpid=26331448http://tmp/sv252.tmp/javascript:void(0);http://tmp/sv252.tmp/javascript:void(0);http://www.crunchyroll.com/quoteforumpost?id_list[]=26331448http://www.crunchyroll.com/user/Ansarhttp://www.crunchyroll.com/dialog_addcomment?gb_id=1045018http://www.crunchyroll.com/dialog_addpm/?recipients=drizzahttp://www.crunchyroll.com/user/drizzahttp://tmp/sv252.tmp/javascript:void(0)http://tmp/sv252.tmp/javascript:void(0)http://tmp/sv252.tmp/javascript:void(0)http://tmp/sv252.tmp/javascript:void(0)http://tmp/sv252.tmp/javascript:void(0)http://tmp/sv252.tmp/javascript:void(0)http://tmp/sv252.tmp/javascript:void(0)http://tmp/sv252.tmp/javascript:void(0)http://tmp/sv252.tmp/javascript:void(0)http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-533406/the-zeitgeist-discussion/?fpid=26251694http://tmp/sv252.tmp/javascript:void(0);http://www.crunchyroll.com/quoteforumpost?id_list[]=26251694http://tmp/sv252.tmp/javascript:void(0)http://www.crunchyroll.com/user/drizzahttp://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-533406/the-zeitgeist-discussion/?fpid=26253134http://tmp/sv252.tmp/javascript:void(0);http://www.crunchyroll.com/quoteforumpost?id_list[]=26253134http://www.crunchyroll.com/editforumpost?id=26331448&pg=3http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-533406/the-zeitgeist-discussion/?fpid=26331448http://tmp/sv252.tmp/javascript:void(0);http://www.crunchyroll.com/quoteforumpost?id_list[]=26331448


23/45

Ansar43 cr points

Send Message:

34

Thanks for sending me the email. I will go through the thread and respondspecifically to what was written. So far I have not seen any refutation to

anything I posted. Only someone's opinion on things. But I will responddirectly shortly.

Ansar43 cr points

Send Message:

34

Edit PermalinkReplyQuotePosted Jul 24, 2009

SeraphAlfordwrote:

"Now, I have to ask you: didnt you find his posts a little suspicious? I mean,

what was with spending so much time talking about how Chertoff is Jewish?

How does his race relate to the issue? Is he saying that Jews are

suspicious? Theyre certainly the corner of many, many conspiracy theories.Especially in the American Free Press he seems to love so much,

repeatedly citing it and praising its articles."

I will respond to this quickly. SeraphAlford. Let's consider that with all thefacts surrounding Michael Chertoff, that instead of Jewish he was Iranian.The double standard in your judgment can be easily seen. On a claim that

19 men of Muslim faith were responsible for 9/11, wars in Muslim countrieswere and are being fought under false pretense and more than 3 millionMuslims have been killed since 9/11. When you add the thousands more

who have been persecuted, falsely arrested, in Guantanamo and otherplaces, charities shutdown and members jailed, tortured, etc, etc and all

because of the association made with them being Muslims.

It amazes me how when it comes to Israel, people have selective blindness.

As with Chertoff the following that I will list below are all TRUE aboutIsraelis. Instead of Israelis, I will substitute Iranians. I wonder how manyIsraeli deniers would be so quick to deny Iranian involvement if the following

statements were true about Iranians? I want to see them read this honestlyand tell me what they really think.

So in regards to 911 we find the Iranians involved with many things. Strange

wouldnt you say that we dont find Russians, Chinese, Italians or even

Africans involved with events related to 911 as Iranians. Isnt it justcoincidental that the people involved just happens to be Iranians. Let's justlook at a few mainstream reports about Iranian involvement with 911:

1. It was Iranians who were caught watching the WTC burn and crumbleand celebrating it with joy. When the Lakers beat Sacramento for the NBAcrown they celebrated. Why? Because their efforts were successful! The

event, which was the championship game, they won. The Iranians,
http://www.crunchyroll.com/user/Ansarhttp://www.crunchyroll.com/user/Ansarhttp://www.crunchyroll.com/editforumpost?id=26332126&pg=3http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-533406/the-zeitgeist-discussion/?fpid=26332126http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-533406/the-zeitgeist-discussion/?fpid=26332126http://tmp/sv252.tmp/javascript:void(0);http://tmp/sv252.tmp/javascript:void(0);http://www.crunchyroll.com/quoteforumpost?id_list[]=26332126http://www.crunchyroll.com/user/SeraphAlfordhttp://www.crunchyroll.com/user/SeraphAlfordhttp://www.crunchyroll.com/dialog_addcomment?gb_id=14865869http://www.crunchyroll.com/dialog_addpm/?recipients=Ansarhttp://www.crunchyroll.com/user/Ansarhttp://www.crunchyroll.com/dialog_addcomment?gb_id=14865869http://www.crunchyroll.com/dialog_addpm/?recipients=Ansarhttp://www.crunchyroll.com/user/Ansarhttp://www.crunchyroll.com/user/Ansarhttp://www.crunchyroll.com/editforumpost?id=26332126&pg=3http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-533406/the-zeitgeist-discussion/?fpid=26332126http://tmp/sv252.tmp/javascript:void(0);http://www.crunchyroll.com/quoteforumpost?id_list[]=26332126http://www.crunchyroll.com/user/SeraphAlford


24/45

according to the eye witnesses who saw them on top of the van wereecstatic. They were joyful and why you ask? Because of Americas misery,Americas lost and thousands of innocent lives perishing. But to the Iranians

this was success. They were ecstatic with joy because they too won thechampionship game!

To show that this joy was not local only to the 5 Iranians, look at what wassaid by and about their leaders:

Reactions from the Iranian side to the September attack:

Farooza Pourkey, terrorism expert at Khomeini University in Tehran, said"From the perspective of Iranians, it is the most important public relations

act ever committed in our favor."

The attack "was good for the Iranians," "It is very good", said Mohammed

Qahtani...before he caught himself and amended his statement.

In an interview with Le Monde, Ali Namazi, former Head of the Iranian Militia

for the Republic of Iran, stated: "Since September 11, our leaders havebeen euphoric."

The reason why the Iranians failed lie detector tests is because the truththat they could not admit was we planned this. We pulled it off. Wesuccessfully created a Pearl Harbor incident to get the stupid goyim fully in

bed with us. And just like we did in the time of Christ we are going to dotoday. We will get our media fully in bed with us to blame someone else for

the crime. Yeah we were caught in the Lavon Affair, USS Liberty, etc. But

we are ready now. The stakes are too high. Yippee Aye Yay we aresuccessful. Come on Ali lets dance!!!

2. It was Iranians whose van was stopped and maps and other

paraphernalia were found leading the FBI to believe that they had definiteinvolvement with 911.

3. It was the Iranian owner of the Moving van company that immediatelyshutdown his business, put his house up for sale and fled to Iran when hisemployees were caught. Arent these drastic actions and shouldnt we want

to know why the owner behaved that way?

4. It was Iranians who were caught spying on the US and lived in the samevicinity as the supposed hijackers.

5. It was Iranians who were part of a spy ring that Carl Cameron reportedabout in Foxx News saying that government officials stated that they hadtie-ins to 911. By the way this news was suppressed and the story taken

off the Foxx News website. The people responsible for that were IINSA (theIranian Institute for National Security Affairs). IINSA President and CEO


25/45

Faruddin Mosadeq is also a director of CAMERA (Committee for AccurateMiddle East Reporting in America), the group that actually staged the e-mail, fax, letter, and phone call mobilization that squeezed Fox TV, to the

point that they removed the transcripts of the four Carl Cameron segmentsfrom their own web site. I wonder why these American Iranians will be

interested in doing such a thing?

6. It was Iranians who the following was reported about by U.S. government

authorities when the Iranian spies were found: An Iranian governmentspokesman reported a few days ago the news of arresting a number ofIranians by the US intelligence bodies in Florida. This might seem strange

but what is more significant is the deliberate ignorance by the Iraniangovernment of the reason for the arrests. The Iranians did not even mention

the reason or the case for which their subjects were detained. The point isthat a big quantity of the Anthrax germ was held with the Iranians when theywere arrested. Moreover, the detainees had 15 charts of the New York

Trade Center and eight charts of the Pentagon building which were attacked

on September 11th. This is in addition to other six charts of the WhiteHouse, which was among the would-be targets of the September 11th

attacks. According to discreet US reports, the charts found with the Iranianshad accurately drawn the Pentagon building and the World Trade Center

and defined their geometric projections, as well as, precisely depicted themany floors. Further, some data included in the charts define the itinerariesof civil passenger planes and their destinations!!!...

7. It was Iranians who the Tehran Post reported about that 4000 weremissing or expected to be dead as a result of doing business and working at

the WTC on 911.

8. It was the Iranian general counsel Mohammad Nasruddin Mehdi who

reported that out of the 4000 Iranians dead or missing actually only one waskilled, a visitor. The statistics of this happening is IMPOSSIBLE. The only

reason this could happen is if somehow Iranians were warned ahead of timeabout the planes crashing into the WTC. The natural question to ask is, are

there any evidence of prior warnings of the impending WTC attacks given toanyone in the world? If there is lets narrow the list down to see if anywarnings happen to be given to Iranians. Well it just so happens that there

were prior warnings and the only people in the world to receive them wereIranians!!!!

9. It was Iranians who received Odigo warnings two hours before the planesstruck the WTC buildings. This was reported both in the Tehran Times and

Washington Post newspapers. This is proof positive that someone whocares for the lives of Iranians knew that planes were going to be crashedinto the WTC ahead of time and wanted to make sure Iranians were not

killed. I am sure the identity of that person was not Bin laden. Thissuccinctly explains why only one Iranian got killed on 911 although thenumber was expected to be as much as 4000.

10. It was Iranians who were armed with 9mm pistols, nine grenades,


26/45

explosives, three detonators and 58 bullets and caught in Mexico in anattempt to blow the Mexican Congress up on October 10, 2001. TheIranians were booked for conspiracy to destroy a building by means of an

explosive by the Mexican police. If they were successful in blowing up theMexican Congress then like 911 it would have been blamed on Christian

terrorists. They got caught red-handed here and only God knows how manyother incidents that innocent Christians are being blamed for that werereally done by Iranians.

11. General Gul, who at one time was a close ally of the U.S. and a staunchsupporter of western values, who could have blamed 911 on his Russian or

Indian enemies but instead choose to blame 911 on Iranians. This formerdirector of the Pakistani Intelligence Service said un-categorically about 911

that The Iranian Savak and its American associates are the obviousculprits. Why did he just happen to also blame Iranians. Of course youwould say he was biased, etc. I expect that from you but why didnt he

blame India or Russia who were far worse enemies to Pakistan than Iran?

This was a man who was close to the American Secret Service leaders andtheir ally. How come he seems to know what Vreeland and other CIA

operatives worldwide knew about 911?

12. The news about the impending attacks was known by even low rankingCIA agents like Delmart Vreeland. To prove it he wrote what was going tohappen in August, 2001 in a sealed envelope while in prison in Canada and

had his guards open the envelope on September 14th. Lo and behold heaccurately predicted the attacks of 911. If he knew about this I am certainthat many others in the CIA especially at higher levels knew about it also.

As such this was a deliberate planned action set up to create a Pearl Harbortype event to cause the American government to take actions that the

planners of this event wanted. With the complicity of the Iranian controlled

news media the finger was solidly pointed on OBL, Al-Qaeda and theTaliban. They did not allow any suspicion to be pointed anywhere else. How

convenient!!!

As an example of the many reports throughout the world implicating Iranianinvolvement in 911, here is a partial text of one from Canadas Stern-Intelon September 17, 2001:

A US military intelligence source revealed details of an internal intelligencememo that points to the Iranian Savak intelligence service having links to

the World Trade Centre and Pentagon attacks.

13. The U.S. Army School for Advanced Military Studies (SAMS), wrote thisabout the Iranian Savak which was reported about on September 10, 2001one day before 911:

"Wildcard. Ruthless and cunning. Has capability to target U.S. forces andmake it look like a Palestinian/Arab act."

BINGO! The very next day an Arab act took place against the U.S. and no


27/45

suspicion or investigation was done based on this credible report fromSAMS. As I said the finger was so firmly pointed against Bin Laden thateven intelligent people were so suffocated by the Iranian press that no other

questions were entertained.

14. An abnormal amount of put stock options were purchased againstUnited and American Airlines one day before 911. Gee whiz I wonder whyBritish Airways, Southwest Airlines, Continental or other Airlines did not

have abnormally large amounts of put stock options purchases also? Whydid it just so happen to be from the two airlines that were involved with the911 incident? It was reported that many Iranians and even an ex-CIA

director from Deutsche bank made huge profits on the purchase. Oneperson made as much as $2,500,000.00 on the deal and when last reported

did not come to pick up his money. How did all these people know thatAmerican and United Airlines stocks will drop so dramatically in value thenext day??? I ask the same question as Michael Shore does in the following

paragraph, Why? Also why did this story just drop from the media and no

follow up was done? Another example of the media in cahoots with theplanners of 911 to deflect attention from the obvious and keep the

Americans firmly fixated on OBL as the only possibility for 911.

It would seem easy enough for the FBI and CIA to go to the stockbrokerswhere these trades were made and find out who made them. This isprobably the closest link that can be established to someone who was

involved in 911 but neither the FBI nor CIA is, apparently, pursuing this.Why?

15. When Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hizbollah and other Palestinian groupscommits an act of freedom against the brutal Israeli regime, no matter how

small the numbers they kill of the enemy they take responsibility for it. That

has been their pattern for a long time. Now the largest attack killing the mostamount of the enemy Americans, instead of OBL boasting about it and

even cheering like the Iranians did at the WTC he says the following: I havealready said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the

United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had noknowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women,children and other humans as an appreciable act

This is quite significant because as successful as this act was it would havebeen something for OBL to boast about but instead he condemns it and

distances himself from it. Very unlikely behavior for someone guilty and whowould normally gloat at such a major accomplishment. The U.S.

government claimed that it had proof which they never showed any of us.They claimed that they showed it to the Pakistani President but he alsorecently came out with a statement claiming that he believes that there is no

way that OBL could have pulled off 911. What happened to the proof?

With all this evidence of Iranian involvement, corrupt U.S. government

officials involvement and media complicity in covering and even droppinginformation that should be pursued and thoroughly investigated I ask the


28/45

question why, why in the hell is any of this not being investigated? This is amountain of evidence. Other evidence not discussed but also valid is howan Iranian company abruptly broke its lease with the WTC, incurring huge

costs just weeks before 911, the many reports showing evidence that theWTC was blown up from within explaining how the buildings fell, no video or

stills of any of the hijackers at Logan Airport, how did the U.S. governmentidentify so quickly the identities of the hijackers and was able to fix theblame on OBL just a few hours after the event, the fact that 8 of the

hijackers identified are still alive today, the many false reports aboutterrorists identities like the one recently of a Pakistani man who never leftPakistan in his life having his picture publicly broadcasted in the media, and

I could go on and on.

What we have been told officially about 911 has more holes in it than agedcheese. It just does not add up. Yet serious actions are being taken againstinnocent Christians and thousands of lives are being lost and even more are

being harassed and persecuted. Why isnt our government invest

debate - 9/11 forensic evidence, holocaust denial & freedom of thought

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