daley deposition

·1· · · ·IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF COOK COUNTY, ILLINOIS·2· · · · · COUNTY DEPARTMENT - CHANCERY DIVISION·3·4· ·THE CITY OF CHICAGO, a· · · · · · )·5· ·Municipal Corporation,· · · · · · )·6· · · · · · · Plaintiff,· · · · · · ·)·7· · · · ·vs.· · · · · · · · · · · · ·) No. 11 CH 41075·8· ·THE CHICAGO PARK DISTRICT,· · · · )·9· ·MILLENNIUM PARK JOINT VENTURE LLC,)10· ·and MILLENNIUM PARK MANAGEMENT· · )11· ·VENTURE LLC,· · · · · · · · · · · )12· · · · · · · Defendants.· · · · · · )1314· · · · · · · The deposition of RICHARD M. DALEY, J.D.,15· ·called for examination, taken pursuant to the16· ·provisions of the Code of Civil Procedure and the17· ·Rules of the Supreme Court of the State of Illinois18· ·pertaining to the taking of depositions for the19· ·purpose of discovery, taken before KRISTIN C.20· ·BRAJKOVICH, a Certified Shorthand Reporter,21· ·CSR No. 84-3810, of said State, at Suite 2300,22· ·10 South Wacker Drive, Chicago, Illinois, on23· ·Thursday, August 29, 2013, at 1:30 p.m.24

Page 2·1· ·PRESENT:·2·3· · · · ·BARNES & THORNBURG LLP,·4· · · · ·(One North Wacker Drive, Suite 4400,·5· · · · ·Chicago, Illinois 60606-2833,·6· · · · ·1-312-214-8820), by:·7· · · · ·MR. WILLIAM M. McERLEAN,·8· · · · ·[email protected], and·9· · · · ·MS. CHRISTINE SKOCZYLAS,10· · · · ·[email protected],11· · · · · · · appeared on behalf of the Plaintiff;1213· · · · ·REED SMITH LLP,14· · · · ·(10 South Wacker Drive,15· · · · ·Chicago, Illinois 60606-7507,16· · · · ·1-312-207-2441), by:17· · · · ·MR. ROBERT S. O'MEARA,18· · · · ·[email protected],19· · · · · · · appeared on behalf of Defendant20· · · · · · · The Chicago Park District;21222324

Page 3·1· ·PRESENT (Continued):·2·3· · · · ·NOVACK and MACEY, LLP,·4· · · · ·(100 North Riverside Plaza, Suite 1500,·5· · · · ·Chicago, Illinois 60606-1501,·6· · · · ·1-312-419-6900), by:·7· · · · ·MR. STEPHEN NOVACK,·8· · · · ·[email protected],·9· · · · ·MR. P. ANDREW FLEMING,10· · · · ·[email protected],11· · · · · · · appeared on behalf of Defendants12· · · · · · · Millennium Park Joint Venture LLC and13· · · · · · · Millennium Park Management Venture LLC;1415· · · · ·DYKEMA GOSSETT PLLC,16· · · · ·(10 South Wacker Drive, Suite 2300,17· · · · ·Chicago, Illinois 60606,18· · · · ·1-312-627-2172 ), by:19· · · · ·MR. TERRENCE M. BURNS,20· · · · ·[email protected],21· · · · · · · appeared on behalf of the Deponent.222324

Page 4·1· ·PRESENT (Continued):·2·3· ·ALSO PRESENT:·4· · · · ·JUDGE DAVID R. DONNERSBERGER (Ret.), General·5· · · · · · · Counsel, Chicago Park District;·6· · · · ·MR. MATT O'MALLEY,·7· · · · ·MR. JAMES HORAN.·8·9101112131415161718192021222324· ·REPORTED BY:· KRISTIN C. BRAJKOVICH, No. 84-3810.

http://www.esquiresolutions.com

1· · · · · · · · · (WHEREUPON, the witness was duly·2· · · · · · · · · sworn.)·3· · · · · · · · · RICHARD M. DALEY, J.D.,·4· ·called as a witness herein, having been first duly·5· ·sworn, was examined and testified as follows:·6· · · · · · · · · EXAMINATION·7· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·8· · · · Q.· · Mr. Mayor, thank you for being here.·9· · · · A.· · You are welcome.10· · · · Q.· · Would you please state and spell your11· ·name for the record.12· · · · A.· · Richard M. Daley, D-a-l-e-y.13· · · · Q.· · And I'm assuming you have been deposed14· ·before?15· · · · A.· · Yes.16· · · · Q.· · Approximately how many times?17· · · · A.· · Maybe five, six times.18· · · · Q.· · Let me just probably -- I'll call it a19· ·reminder.· Just a couple things.· She's taking20· ·everything down, so you need to answer audibly.21· · · · A.· · Yes.22· · · · Q.· · And if you don't understand any of my23· ·questions, please just ask me to rephrase.· I'll be24· ·happy to do it.

Page 6·1· · · · A.· · Yes.·2· · · · Q.· · And from time to time, I'm sure there·3· ·will be breaks.· We would ask that if there's a·4· ·question pending, you will answer it before the·5· ·break?·6· · · · A.· · Sure.·7· · · · Q.· · And there likely also will be objections·8· ·from time to time by one or more of the lawyers in·9· ·the room.· Unless you are in an area of10· ·attorney-client privilege or being instructed not11· ·to answer, you understand --12· · · · A.· · Sure.13· · · · Q.· · -- that you answer over the objection14· ·after it's been stated?15· · · · MR. BURNS:· We'll address that as we go along.16· ·BY THE WITNESS:17· · · · A.· · Yes.18· · · · MR. NOVACK:· Thank you, Terry.19· ·BY MR. NOVACK:20· · · · Q.· · Preparing for the deposition today,21· ·could you tell us what you did?22· · · · A.· · I walked over here, got sworn in, and23· ·sat down.24· · · · Q.· · Okay.· Did you review any documents?

Page 7·1· · · · A.· · No.·2· · · · Q.· · Talk to any lawyers prior to the·3· ·deposition about the deposition?·4· · · · MR. BURNS:· No one in this room --·5· ·BY THE WITNESS:·6· · · · A.· · No one in this room.·7· · · · MR. BURNS:· -- other than conversations he may·8· ·have had with me.·9· ·BY THE WITNESS:10· · · · A.· · Conversations with my attorney.11· ·BY MR. NOVACK:12· · · · Q.· · Those conversations I will not ask you13· ·about.· What about Mr. McErlean, have you ever14· ·talked with him?15· · · · A.· · I don't even know him.16· · · · Q.· · Do you know any of the lawyers in this17· ·room?· The lawyers are sitting on that side of the18· ·table.19· · · · A.· · I know Judge Donnersberger.20· · · · Q.· · Have you talked with him --21· · · · A.· · No.22· · · · Q.· · -- about this case?23· · · · A.· · No.· No, none whatsoever.24· · · · Q.· · And you don't know any of the other

Page 8·1· ·lawyers in the room?·2· · · · A.· · No, I don't.·3· · · · Q.· · Do you know these two gentlemen?·4· · · · A.· · Yes.·5· · · · Q.· · Who are they?·6· · · · A.· · Matt and John.·7· · · · Q.· · Matt O'Malley and John Horan?·8· · · · A.· · I think so, yes, unless they changed·9· ·their name.· I don't know.10· · · · Q.· · Have you ever spoken to the present11· ·mayor, Rahm Emanuel, about The Park Grill12· ·Restaurant in any way?13· · · · A.· · No, I haven't.14· · · · Q.· · Have you ever spoken with him about this15· ·case?16· · · · A.· · No, I haven't17· · · · Q.· · Have you ever spoken to anybody from his18· ·office about this case or the restaurant?19· · · · A.· · None whatsoever.20· · · · Q.· · You graduated from law school, I21· ·understand?22· · · · A.· · Yes, I did.23· · · · Q.· · When was that?24· · · · A.· · About '67.


1· · · · Q.· · And which law school?·2· · · · A.· · DePaul University.·3· · · · Q.· · And when were you admitted to the bar?·4· · · · A.· · About two years later.·5· · · · Q.· · Have you been a member of the Illinois·6· ·Bar ever since?·7· · · · A.· · Yes, I have.·8· · · · Q.· · And you are presently a member?·9· · · · A.· · Yes.10· · · · Q.· · And you practice today at Katten Muchin?11· · · · A.· · Of counsel.12· · · · Q.· · How long were you Mayor of Chicago?13· · · · A.· · 22 years.· I don't know about the --14· ·maybe the hours.· Maybe more than 22 years.· Yeah,15· ·I don't know what the hours were.· About 22 years.16· · · · Q.· · And the years were from when to when?17· · · · A.· · 1989 to 22 years later.18· · · · Q.· · And you left office in 2007?· · Does19· ·that sound right?20· · · · A.· · 22 years later, in May.21· · · · Q.· · And as Mayor, I take it you were the22· ·chief executive officer of the City?23· · · · A.· · Yes.24· · · · Q.· · And assuming the City Council did not

Page 10·1· ·have to pass on a particular decision, you had the·2· ·ultimate authority to make any decision for the·3· ·City?·4· · · · MR. BURNS:· Could you be more specific?·5· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· Objection.·6· ·BY THE WITNESS:·7· · · · A.· · I couldn't answer that.· You have·8· ·federal court decisions, state decisions, decisions·9· ·made by other agencies.· I could not answer that.10· ·BY MR. NOVACK:11· · · · Q.· · I'm talking now only about the City of12· ·Chicago, not about the court, not about any13· ·agencies.14· · · · MR. BURNS:· Let him finish and listen to what15· ·he says.16· ·BY MR. NOVACK:17· · · · Q.· · Within the City itself, a decision to be18· ·made for action to be taken by the City that does19· ·not require City Council approval, you as Mayor20· ·have the authority to make those decisions,21· ·correct?22· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· Objection, calls for a legal23· ·conclusion.24· · · · MR. BURNS: Yeah, legal conclusion.· If you

Page 11·1· ·could be more specific, that would be helpful.·2· ·Excuse me.·3· · · · · · · · · (WHEREUPON, discussion was had off·4· · · · · · · · · the record.)·5· · · · MR. BURNS:· Thank you.·6· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·7· · · · Q.· · If the City was contemplating entering·8· ·into a contract with a third-party vendor and that·9· ·contract did not require City Council approval, did10· ·you, as Mayor, while you were Mayor, have the11· ·authority to direct the City to enter into that12· ·agreement?13· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· Same objection.14· · · · MR. BURNS:· Calls for a legal conclusion.· I15· ·think -- well, I don't want to presume what he's16· ·asking you but --17· ·BY MR. NOVACK:18· · · · Q.· · You can answer the question.19· · · · MR. BURNS:· If you can answer that question.20· ·Do you want to hear it again?21· · · · THE WITNESS:· ·Yeah.22· · · · MR. BURNS:· Please.23· · · · · · · · · (WHEREUPON, the record was read by24· · · · · · · · · the reporter.)

Page 12·1· · · · MR. BURNS: Again, I think it calls for a legal·2· ·conclusion.· I'm not sure he can answer it the way·3· ·it has been posited to him.·4· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·5· · · · Q.· · You are unable to answer that?·6· · · · A.· · Yes.·7· · · · Q.· · If a member of your staff came to you·8· ·and said, We want to enter into a contract with·9· ·Party X and the lawyers tell me that City Council10· ·approval is not needed but we need to have11· ·authority, would you be able to give that authority12· ·to that person?13· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· Same objection.14· · · · MR. BURNS:· I think it runs into an incomplete15· ·hypothetical question.· You are asking him to come16· ·up with some details that are not provided in that17· ·hypothetical.· It really becomes impossible to18· ·answer the way it has been asked of him.· All of19· ·these contracts would be dealt with through the law20· ·department -- just hold on -- through the law21· ·department.· So I'm not sure if he can answer it.22· ·I think he said that before.23· ·BY MR. NOVACK:24· · · · Q.· · So now let's take that hypothetical and


1· ·say that the law department says to you, This is·2· ·perfectly legal, it's okay for the City to enter·3· ·into this contract, if as a business matter the·4· ·City chooses to do so.·5· · · · · · · And now the City Council does not have·6· ·to approve it.· Who had ultimate authority while·7· ·you were Mayor to decide, from a business·8· ·perspective, whether to enter into a third-party·9· ·contract?10· · · · MR. BURNS:· Again, an incomplete hypothetical.11· ·BY MR. NOVACK:12· · · · Q.· · Can you answer, sir?13· · · · A.· · I can't.14· · · · Q.· · Were you ever asked in the 22 years that15· ·you were Mayor whether the City should enter into a16· ·particular contract?17· · · · A.· · I don't recall.18· · · · Q.· · You don't recall that ever happening?19· · · · A.· · No, I don't recall.20· · · · Q.· · Now, I want to ask you a few questions21· ·about the Park District in relationship with the22· ·City to the Park District.23· · · · · · · Who appoints -- while you were Mayor,24· ·who appointed Park District board members?

Page 14·1· · · · MR. BURNS:· Process, they are asking.· The·2· ·nomination, who approves them.·3· ·BY THE WITNESS:·4· · · · A.· · The Mayor of the City of Chicago.· All·5· ·mayors have a process of appointing the Park·6· ·District board of directors.·7· · · · MR. BURNS:· Subject to approval.·8· ·BY THE WITNESS:·9· · · · A.· · Subject to approval, yes.10· ·BY MR. NOVACK:11· · · · Q.· · Subject to approval by whom?12· · · · A.· · City Council.13· · · · Q.· · And who would bring the nominees to the14· ·attention of the City Council?· Would that be the15· ·Mayor's Office?16· · · · A.· · Yes.17· · · · Q.· · And let me ask you the same question18· ·about the Park District superintendent.· What is19· ·the appointment process for the superintendent of20· ·the Park District?21· · · · A.· · The Mayor would have responsibility of22· ·appointing the superintendent.23· · · · MR. BURNS:· Nominating?· I'm sorry.24

Page 15·1· ·BY THE WITNESS:·2· · · · A.· · Or nominating a superintendent subject·3· ·to approval of the Park District.·4· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·5· · · · Q.· · Without the Mayor --·6· · · · MR. BURNS:· Did you get that?·7· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·8· · · · Q.· · Subject to what?·9· · · · A.· · Subject to the approval --10· · · · MR. BURNS:· Approval.11· ·BY THE WITNESS:12· · · · A.· · -- of the Park District, the board.13· ·BY MR. NOVACK:14· · · · Q.· · If you, as Mayor, did not nominate a15· ·particular person to be the superintendent of the16· ·Park District, could that person be -- could that17· ·person have been appointed superintendent?18· · · · A.· · The board could appoint one.19· · · · Q.· · Without the Mayor's nomination?20· · · · A.· · Yes.21· · · · Q.· · Did that ever happen while you were22· ·there?23· · · · A.· · Gee, I don't know.· I can't recall.24· · · · Q.· · Which superintendents did you appoint

Page 16·1· ·during your tenure?·2· · · · A.· · I don't recall.·3· · · · Q.· · Did you appoint Mr. Tim Mitchell?·4· · · · A.· · Yes.·5· · · · MR. BURNS:· Nominated him, yes.·6· ·BY THE WITNESS:·7· · · · A.· · Nominated him with board approval.·8· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·9· · · · Q.· · Did you nominate David Doig?10· · · · A.· · Yes, and the board approved him.11· · · · Q.· · Did Mr. Doig leave the superintendent's12· ·position during your tenure as Mayor?13· · · · A.· · I think so.· I don't recall what date.14· · · · Q.· · Did you ask him to --15· · · · A.· · No.16· · · · MR. BURNS:· Just -- did you ask him what?17· ·BY THE WITNESS:18· · · · A.· · What?19· · · · MR. BURNS:· What was your question?20· ·BY MR. NOVACK:21· · · · Q.· · Did you ask him to step down?22· · · · A.· · No, I didn't.23· · · · Q.· · Do you know why he did?24· · · · A.· · No, I don't.


1· · · · Q.· · During your tenure as Mayor, did certain·2· ·individuals transfer back and forth between the·3· ·City and the Park District?·4· · · · A.· · Some did.· I'm not sure.· I wouldn't·5· ·know.·6· · · · Q.· · Mr. Mitchell did?·7· · · · A.· · Yes.· He was -- worked for the City and·8· ·then he became superintendent of the Park District.·9· · · · Q.· · And after he was superintendent of the10· ·Park District, did he go back to the City?11· · · · A.· · I don't know where he went.12· · · · Q.· · Now, if you wanted -- while you were13· ·Mayor, if you wanted the Park District to do14· ·something, if you wanted them to take certain15· ·action with respect to something within their16· ·jurisdiction, how would you go about having them do17· ·that?18· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· Object to the form of the19· ·question.20· · · · MR. BURNS:· Are you asking --21· ·BY THE WITNESS:22· · · · A.· · About what?23· · · · MR. BURNS:· I think he's asking like an24· ·initiative.· Is that what you mean?

Page 18·1· ·BY THE WITNESS:·2· · · · A.· · An initiative?·3· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·4· · · · Q.· · What would you do if you wanted the Park·5· ·District to build a certain facility in a park that·6· ·was under the --·7· · · · A.· · It usually came.·8· · · · Q.· · -- Park District's jurisdiction?·9· · · · A.· · It usually came from the community.· It10· ·would come from the community asking to build a11· ·park, to build a facility in the park.· It would12· ·really come from the community at large.13· · · · Q.· · To you?14· · · · A.· · To aldermen, citizens groups, department15· ·heads, variety of things, media.16· · · · Q.· · Did anything like that ever come to you?17· · · · A.· · Well, if you read in the paper, you18· ·usually heard it from block clubs and community19· ·organizations.· They would be sending letters and20· ·things like that.· We would like to have an21· ·addition to the park or a baseball or a soccer22· ·field, an event that they are going to have in the23· ·park.· They want a children's playground, a variety24· ·of things that they would be seeking --

Page 19·1· · · · Q.· · So something --·2· · · · A.· · -- that would come to the attention of·3· ·everybody in the community.·4· · · · Q.· · So if something like that came to your·5· ·attention, what would you do or what did you do·6· ·when things like that came to your attention while·7· ·you were Mayor, to make sure that it got done, if·8· ·you wanted it done?·9· · · · A.· · First of all, you have to have a whole10· ·process of looking at it as compared to not just11· ·the community but the surrounding community.12· · · · · · · People would come forward, why they need13· ·it, what is the deficiency, what is the support of14· ·the community, the elected officials, what they15· ·were trying to accomplish, what effect they have on16· ·the churches or the schools in the community,17· ·things like that.18· · · · · · · And that would be a whole process of19· ·evaluating that, and usually the Park District --20· ·really go to the Park District 99.9 percent of the21· ·time or 100 percent of the time, go to the Park22· ·District, and they would look at that and evaluate23· ·that according to their budget.24· · · · Q.· · But how would you make your own personal

Page 20·1· ·preferences known to the Park District, assuming·2· ·you had a personal preference about a project?·3· · · · A.· · Well, all the projects are good.· The·4· ·Mayor would be for 100 percent of the projects.·5· ·That is automatically, you would say, These are·6· ·great concepts, these are great ideas.·7· · · · · · · But like anything else, they have·8· ·budgets and they have to look at what they did·9· ·throughout the city and how they holistically10· ·looked at the project itself.11· · · · Q.· · What if on the flipside of that, while12· ·you were Mayor, if something came to your attention13· ·that the Park District was doing and you did not14· ·agree with that, what would you do?15· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· Object to the form of the16· ·question.17· · · · MR. BURNS:· Calls for speculation.18· ·BY THE WITNESS:19· · · · A.· · Speculation.20· ·BY MR. NOVACK:21· · · · Q.· · Was there ever a situation while you22· ·were Mayor that the Park District was doing a23· ·particular something that you didn't like?24· · · · A.· · I wouldn't recall.· I don't recall that.


1· · · · Q.· · You don't ever recall saying directly to·2· ·the Park District or through intermediaries, I·3· ·don't like that particular thing?·4· · · · A.· · I don't recall, no.·5· · · · Q.· · You don't recall or you never did it?·6· · · · MR. BURNS:· He said he doesn't recall.·7· ·BY THE WITNESS:·8· · · · A.· · I just don't recall.·9· ·BY MR. NOVACK:10· · · · Q.· · So you don't recall one way or the other11· ·whether you did that?12· · · · A.· · One way or the other.13· · · · Q.· · Would you say that it was the normal14· ·custom and practice of the Park District and the15· ·City to cooperate together on matters relating to16· ·parks?17· · · · MR. BURNS:· To the extent permissible,18· ·collaboration.19· ·BY THE WITNESS:20· · · · A.· · Collaboration, sure.21· ·BY MR. NOVACK:22· · · · Q.· · Do you know what an intergovernmental23· ·agreement is, sir?24· · · · A.· · Yes, inter -- intergovernmental,

Page 22·1· ·federal, state, county, city.· Other organizations·2· ·formed by the state.· It's between government·3· ·agencies.·4· · · · Q.· · City and Park District would be an·5· ·example?·6· · · · A.· · Yeah.· You could have City and the·7· ·federal government, City and State, City and·8· ·County, City and Community Colleges, City and·9· ·library, and City and Board of Education.· There10· ·are other government agencies that are established11· ·by law.12· · · · Q.· · So I'm asking about City and Park13· ·District.· Is that another example?14· · · · A.· · Yeah, that would be an example.15· · · · Q.· · You have actually been instructed from16· ·time to time, while you were Mayor, that agreements17· ·be entered into between the Park District and the18· ·City, didn't you?19· · · · MR. BURNS:· Do you recall?20· ·BY THE WITNESS:21· · · · A.· · I don't recall.22· ·BY MR. NOVACK:23· · · · Q.· · Let's talk about Millennium Park.· As I24· ·understand it, the plan for the park was announced

Page 23·1· ·in March of 1998.· Let me just show you an exhibit·2· ·with respect to that.·3· · · · MR. BURNS:· Thanks.· Appreciate it.· Just take·4· ·a moment to look at it.·5· · · · MR. O'MEARA:· Are you marking this as an·6· ·exhibit, or has it already been marked?·7· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·8· · · · Q.· · That is Exhibit 352.· Just while the·9· ·Mayor is reading it, for the record, it purports to10· ·be a news release dated March 30, 1998, from the11· ·Office of the Mayor, Richard M. Daley, with the12· ·title Mayor Daley Announces Lakefront Millennium13· ·Project.14· · · · A.· · Okay.15· · · · Q.· · Okay.· So is it the case that the16· ·Millennium Park was announced in March of 1998?17· · · · A.· · Yes, that's what the news release says,18· ·March 30, 1998.19· · · · Q.· · Okay.· And having a park at Millennium20· ·Park was your idea, sir, wasn't it?21· · · · A.· · No.· It was Daniel Burnham's.22· · · · Q.· · Daniel Burnham was not with the Chicago23· ·government, was he?24· · · · A.· · No.· He was the planner that designed

Page 24·1· ·the rebuilding of Chicago's lakefront and parks·2· ·supported by the business community.· It was a·3· ·project that the lakefront belongs to the people·4· ·and not to a few.· It is not like the north shore·5· ·belonging to a few --·6· · · · Q.· · But within the --·7· · · · A.· · -- concept.·8· · · · Q.· · Within the Chicago city government, you·9· ·were the individual that had the idea and pushed10· ·the idea of having Millennium Park, correct?11· · · · A.· · The idea originally came from Daniel12· ·Burnham.13· · · · Q.· · But he's not in the government.· He14· ·couldn't --15· · · · MR. BURNS:· Maybe we could focus on '98, to16· ·bring it more current in time as developing.17· · · · THE WITNESS:· Yeah.18· ·BY MR. NOVACK:19· · · · Q.· · Let's even go before that.· Let me show20· ·you Exhibit 360, which is a newspaper article from21· ·Crain's, which was published October 10, 2011, in22· ·which you were interviewed about the experience23· ·with Millennium Park while you were Mayor.24· · · · · · · And I'll direct your attention down to


1· ·the second paragraph of that article, and it says,·2· ·"He" -- and it's referring to you -- "talked about·3· ·the genesis of Millennium Park."·4· · · · · · · And that is the inception, the·5· ·beginning, correct, sir?·6· · · · A.· · Well, before that --·7· · · · Q.· · You understand genesis to mean that?·8· · · · A.· · Yes, but before --·9· · · · Q.· · It says here that you said -- they are10· ·saying what you said, that you were sitting in your11· ·dentist's chair overlooking a patchwork piece of12· ·land and said, What are we going to do with that?13· ·Do you remember that?14· · · · A.· · No, I don't remember it.15· · · · Q.· · Do you remember saying that to a16· ·newspaper reporter just about a year and a half ago17· ·or so?18· · · · A.· · It could be.19· · · · MR. BURNS:· This is the updated, 2011.20· · · · THE WITNESS:· ·It could be.21· ·BY MR. NOVACK:22· · · · Q.· · Were you one of the motivators of23· ·getting Millennium Park going?24· · · · A.· · The motivation of a gift on behalf of

Page 26·1· ·the City of Chicago and the business community was·2· ·a millennium gift on behalf of the families that·3· ·worked and suffered and died in building this great·4· ·city.·5· · · · · · · It reflected the commitment of·6· ·immigrants from DuSable originally and the native·7· ·American Indians.· It was to honor those that had·8· ·built the city and its history.· That is where the·9· ·millennium gift concept came from.10· · · · Q.· · That is what you were thinking when you11· ·pushed the park?12· · · · A.· · No.· It came from a number of people.13· · · · Q.· · But did you share that vision?14· · · · A.· · They shared it -- people shared it with15· ·me as well as --16· · · · Q.· · Did you disagree with it?17· · · · A.· · The people's concept was a gift to the18· ·city.19· · · · Q.· · I'm asking about you, Mr. Daley.· I'm20· ·not asking about --21· · · · MR. BURNS:· And he is --22· ·BY THE WITNESS:23· · · · A.· · I'm trying to say that.· I'm trying to24· ·explain.

Page 27·1· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·2· · · · Q.· · Did you disagree with that --·3· · · · A.· · The concept?·4· · · · Q.· · -- motivation?·5· · · · A.· · The concept?·6· · · · Q.· · You disagreed with the concept?·7· · · · A.· · No.·8· · · · MR. BURNS:· He's asking you, are you talking·9· ·about the concept?10· ·BY MR. NOVACK:11· · · · Q.· · Yeah.12· · · · A.· · I agreed with the concept.13· · · · Q.· · You agreed with the concept.14· · · · A.· · The gift on behalf of the City.15· · · · Q.· · You would agree with you were a pretty16· ·active sponsor of that to make sure that it got17· ·done?18· · · · MR. BURNS:· You mean a supporter?19· ·BY THE WITNESS:20· · · · A.· · I was a supporter.21· ·BY MR. NOVACK:22· · · · Q.· · You don't want to take credit for23· ·Millennium Park?24· · · · MR. BURNS:· No, we are not going to get into

Page 28·1· ·he doesn't want to take credit for.·2· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·3· · · · Q.· · Do you think that you deserve any credit·4· ·for Millennium Park?·5· · · · MR. BURNS:· We don't want to get into that·6· ·back-and-forth.·7· · · · MR. NOVACK:· What do you mean?· I'm asking a·8· ·question.·9· · · · MR. BURNS:· It's argumentative.10· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· Objection, it's argumentative.11· · · · MR. BURNS:· It's argumentative.· He's trying12· ·to answer your questions.13· ·BY MR. NOVACK:14· · · · Q.· · The article goes on to say, in the15· ·second to last paragraph on that page, that the16· ·Mayor emphasized his desire to do something new in17· ·creating Millennium Park.· Is that a true18· ·characterization of your desire?19· · · · A.· · The desire of the committee and myself.20· · · · Q.· · Not yourself?21· · · · A.· · Myself.· Everyone.22· · · · Q.· · Including yourself?23· · · · A.· · Everyone.24· · · · Q.· · Now, you became involved in the planning


1· ·of the park; is that correct?·2· · · · MR. BURNS:· I think you have to provide a·3· ·little more detail what you mean by "planning the·4· ·park."·5· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·6· · · · Q.· · Did you work on the concept of the bean?·7· ·Were you involved in that?·8· · · · MR. BURNS:· Did you develop the concept of·9· ·having -- what do they call it, the cloud or the10· ·bean over in the park?11· ·BY MR. NOVACK:12· · · · Q.· · The bean.· Let's start with the bean.13· · · · A.· · No.· I could never -- no.14· · · · Q.· · Did you know there was going to be a15· ·bean --16· · · · A.· · No.17· · · · Q.· · -- at the park?18· · · · A.· · No.19· · · · Q.· · One day you saw it and that was the20· ·first time you knew about it?21· · · · A.· · I don't even remember.· I never knew it22· ·was coming.23· · · · Q.· · How about the Pritzker Pavilion, did you24· ·have anything to do with the creation of the

Page 30·1· ·Pritzker Pavilion?·2· · · · MR. BURNS:· I'm going to object to the form of·3· ·the question.· If you are asking the development of·4· ·the park, Pritzker Pavilion was part of that.·5· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·6· · · · Q.· · Let's look at the second page of 360,·7· ·please, sir.· This first full paragraph on the page·8· ·starts off with, "Mr. Daley."· It says that you·9· ·remembered being especially worried about the sound10· ·system.· "I wanted to make sure that it worked for11· ·that opening night.· It would be in the first12· ·description of the Pritzker Pavilion, and we were13· ·really worried about it working right."14· · · · · · · Is that a direct quote from you?· Is15· ·that what you said?16· · · · A.· · If it's written --17· · · · MR. BURNS:· Do you know if those were the18· ·words that you used?19· ·BY THE WITNESS:20· · · · A.· · Yeah, I don't know if they are exact21· ·words.22· ·BY MR. NOVACK:23· · · · Q.· · Is that what you believed?24· · · · A.· · The sound system is always the key to a

Page 31·1· ·pavilion that is outside.·2· · · · Q.· · So you got into some of the details of·3· ·that sound system?· Did you check it out?·4· · · · A.· · No.·5· · · · MR. BURNS:· Wait a minute.· We are presuming.·6· ·That's fine.· You can answer the question.·7· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·8· · · · Q.· · It says you wanted to make sure that it·9· ·worked.· What did you do, if anything, to make sure10· ·that the sound system worked?11· · · · A.· · To make sure that the committee knew a12· ·sound system, as compared to the Hollywood bull,13· ·has to work in order to have a system that you14· ·could have a pavilion of people listening to music.15· · · · Q.· · That was one of the things that you made16· ·sure of?17· · · · A.· · That's the key of any pavilion.18· · · · Q.· · The next paragraph talks about the size19· ·of the trees in the park.· It quotes you as saying20· ·you didn't want to see trees this big, and it says21· ·you held your hand up to your waist.22· · · · · · · So you went on to quote, "I made sure to23· ·get big trees.· We cornered the market."· Is all of24· ·that true?· Is that what you did?

Page 32·1· · · · A.· · I believe so.·2· · · · Q.· · So you were involved in some of the·3· ·details at least?·4· · · · A.· · Trees, size of trees, just making sure·5· ·that the facility would be up-to-date.· Trees.· I'm·6· ·a tree lover.· Put that on the record.·7· · · · Q.· · Did you consider the park in any way to·8· ·be one of your legacies as Mayor of the City?·9· · · · A.· · Well, it's hard to say what a legacy is.10· · · · Q.· · Is that something that you would like to11· ·be remembered for, though, as the Mayor -- who was12· ·Mayor when Millennium Park was developed?13· · · · A.· · No.14· · · · Q.· · You don't want be to associated with15· ·Millennium Park?16· · · · A.· · I would rather be associated with17· ·building a school --18· · · · Q.· · So are you ashamed --19· · · · A.· · -- personally.20· · · · Q.· · Are you ashamed of Millennium Park?21· · · · A.· · No, I did not say that.· I would not say22· ·that I'm ashamed.23· · · · Q.· · Is it true that the park initially was24· ·estimated to cost $150 million?


1· · · · MR. BURNS:· Do you remember the details?·2· ·BY THE WITNESS:·3· · · · A.· · I don't know.·4· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·5· · · · Q.· · If you look at Exhibit 352, please.·6· · · · MR. BURNS:· He has something to show you.·7· ·Exhibit 352?·8· · · · MR. NOVACK:· 352.·9· · · · MR. BURNS:· Is that the article that you gave10· ·us earlier?11· · · · MR. NOVACK:· I just put the number at the top.12· ·We didn't have a label on this one for some reason.13· ·My apologies.14· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· You have not marked this.· The15· ·next -- 352 is the news release from '98.16· · · · MR. BURNS:· We have that in front of us.· You17· ·marked that earlier.18· · · · MR. NOVACK:· Where is the copies of it?19· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· You just showed us the20· ·Sun-Times article.21· · · · MR. FLEMING:· We are going back to 352, which22· ·has already been marked and given to them.23· ·BY MR. NOVACK:24· · · · Q.· · So 352 purports to be a news release

Page 34·1· ·dated March 30, 1998, from the Office of the Mayor.·2· ·We have looked at this once before, and if you look·3· ·to the second to last paragraph on that page,·4· ·please.·5· · · · MR. BURNS:· Is that where it says, "Full·6· ·cost"?·7· · · · MR. NOVACK:· Yes.·8· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·9· · · · Q.· · Does that refresh your recollection,10· ·sir, that the estimated cost by your office at the11· ·inception of the project was $150 million with12· ·120 million coming from parking revenues and13· ·30 million from private sources?14· · · · MR. BURNS:· He's asking if you remember that15· ·one.16· ·BY THE WITNESS:17· · · · A.· · I don't remember, but it's in there.18· ·BY MR. NOVACK:19· · · · Q.· · Does that sound right to you?20· · · · MR. BURNS:· Do you know?21· ·BY THE WITNESS:22· · · · A.· · I wouldn't know if it's right or wrong,23· ·but it's in here.24· · · · MR. BURNS:· No, it's part of the release, but

Page 35·1· ·he's asking, do you remember?·2· ·BY THE WITNESS:·3· · · · A.· · No, I don't.· No.· I don't recall.·4· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·5· · · · Q.· · Do you have any reason to believe that a·6· ·news release emanating from your office at the time·7· ·that you were Mayor would be incorrect?·8· · · · A.· · I don't know.·9· · · · Q.· · You don't know that either?10· · · · A.· · I wouldn't know.· I didn't read11· ·everything.12· · · · MR. BURNS:· Well, specifically you are asking13· ·him about the dollar amounts in this release.· He14· ·doesn't remember it.15· ·BY THE WITNESS:16· · · · A.· · Doesn't remember it.17· ·BY MR. NOVACK:18· · · · Q.· · Do you remember that the cost increased19· ·from the inception of the project as time went on?20· · · · MR. BURNS:· He's asking whatever that cost21· ·was, do you recall over the course did that number22· ·increase, if you recall generally or any specifics23· ·of that.24

Page 36·1· ·BY THE WITNESS:·2· · · · A.· · I don't remember any specifics, but I·3· ·know it increased.·4· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·5· · · · Q.· · Do you remember that it increased to·6· ·about $475 million?·7· · · · A.· · It could.·8· · · · MR. BURNS:· Do you know?· Do you remember the·9· ·numbers?10· ·BY THE WITNESS:11· · · · A.· · I don't know.· I don't remember the12· ·exact numbers.13· ·BY MR. NOVACK:14· · · · Q.· · Does it refresh your recollection to see15· ·Exhibit 355, which is a Chicago Sun-Times article16· ·of July 15, '04, in the left-hand column, where17· ·it -- under the heading, Wow that's pricey?18· · · · MR. BURNS:· Do you remember the --19· ·BY THE WITNESS:20· · · · A.· · I wouldn't remember.21· · · · MR. BURNS:· He just wants to know what you22· ·remember about --23· ·BY THE WITNESS:24· · · · A.· · I wouldn't remember that.


1· · · · MR. BURNS:· -- the numbers.·2· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·3· · · · Q.· · Okay.· But you remember that there was·4· ·an increase, correct?·5· · · · A.· · Yes.·6· · · · Q.· · And would you characterize it as a·7· ·substantial increase?·8· · · · MR. BURNS:· Cost over time.·9· ·BY THE WITNESS:10· · · · A.· · An increase.11· ·BY MR. NOVACK:12· · · · Q.· · Would it surprise you to hear that it13· ·was 475 million?14· · · · MR. BURNS:· He doesn't remember.15· ·BY THE WITNESS:16· · · · A.· · I don't remember specifically but --17· ·BY MR. NOVACK:18· · · · Q.· · Now, did the City and Park District19· ·cooperate together in developing Millennium Park?20· · · · MR. BURNS:· Do you know how the collaboration21· ·worked between --22· ·BY THE WITNESS:23· · · · A.· · The private sector.24· · · · MR. BURNS:· Well, he's not excluding -- are

Page 38·1· ·you not excluding private sector, that issue, there·2· ·were people that were part of that as well?·3· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·4· · · · Q.· · There may be other people that·5· ·cooperated too or were involved, but I'm just now·6· ·focusing on those two entities.·7· · · · A.· · Private sector and the City and·8· ·everyone, Park District, and many other agencies·9· ·worked together.10· · · · Q.· · And now I'm focusing on the Park11· ·District and City only.· The Park District and City12· ·cooperated on developing the various component13· ·parts of the park; is that true?14· · · · A.· · I don't know.· I wouldn't recall.15· · · · Q.· · Did the Park District and the City16· ·cooperate together in getting concessions awarded17· ·with third-party vendors?18· · · · MR. BURNS:· Do you remember the specifics?19· ·BY THE WITNESS:20· · · · A.· · I don't know the specifics.21· ·BY MR. NOVACK:22· · · · Q.· · Did the City oppose awarding concessions23· ·to third-party vendors?24· · · · A.· · I don't recall.

Page 39·1· · · · Q.· · Did the City not want third-party·2· ·vendors involved in the park at all?·3· · · · A.· · I don't recall.·4· · · · Q.· · It's possible that the City didn't want·5· ·third-party vendors?·6· · · · MR. BURNS:· He's saying he doesn't recall.·7· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·8· · · · Q.· · I'm asking, is it possible that the City·9· ·would not have wanted --10· · · · MR. BURNS:· Don't speculate.11· ·BY MR. NOVACK:12· · · · Q.· · -- third-party vendors?13· · · · MR. BURNS:· Excuse me.· I'm sorry.· I didn't14· ·mean to interrupt either of you.· But when you ask15· ·possibly, you are asking him to speculate, and you16· ·are not required to, Mr. Mayor.17· ·BY MR. NOVACK:18· · · · Q.· · Do you know whether there were any19· ·third-party vendors that had concession awards for20· ·Millennium Park?21· · · · MR. BURNS:· What -- can you be more --22· ·BY THE WITNESS:23· · · · A.· · I don't recall specifically.24

Page 40·1· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·2· · · · Q.· · Maybe we'll get a little bit more·3· ·specific.·4· · · · · · · But as the park was being developed,·5· ·it's true, isn't it, that you had regular briefings·6· ·about the park?·7· · · · A.· · I don't recall.· I could have had some·8· ·briefings, but I don't recall.·9· · · · Q.· · You don't recall that there were regular10· ·periodic meetings with written agendas and a number11· ·of people in attendance?12· · · · A.· · No, I don't recall.· I don't recall.13· · · · Q.· · Do you recall meetings where you were14· ·briefed on Millennium Park that was attended by15· ·representatives of the City, including Beth16· ·O'Reilly; representatives of the City's law17· ·department, including Mara Georges; representatives18· ·of the PBC, including Kevin Gujral; and19· ·representatives of the Park District, including20· ·David Doig, and also Joseph Manley.21· · · · · · · You don't recall regular meetings like22· ·that?23· · · · A.· · No, I don't recall.24· · · · Q.· · Do you recall being briefed about


1· ·Millennium Park at any time during your position as·2· ·Mayor?·3· · · · A.· · Could be.·4· · · · MR. BURNS:· We are not saying there weren't·5· ·meetings.·6· ·BY THE WITNESS:·7· · · · A.· · That it didn't happen.·8· · · · MR. BURNS:· He's saying he doesn't recall.·9· ·You are asking about regularity or scheduled10· ·meetings.11· ·BY MR. NOVACK:12· · · · Q.· · From about the inception of the idea of13· ·Millennium Park, did you want to see a restaurant14· ·in the park?15· · · · A.· · I don't recall.16· · · · Q.· · Did there ever come a time when you17· ·wanted there to be a restaurant in the park?18· · · · A.· · To the concept maybe, a restaurant was19· ·going to be in the park.· The whole concept of the20· ·whole committee.21· · · · Q.· · It was anticipated that there would be a22· ·restaurant in the park?23· · · · A.· · Yes, yes.24· · · · Q.· · Including anticipated by you?

Page 42·1· · · · A.· · Not by me personally, no.·2· · · · Q.· · You had no opinion one way or the other·3· ·as to whether there should be a park (sic)?·4· · · · A.· · No.·5· · · · Q.· · At some point, though, did you decide·6· ·that the Park District would be in charge of the·7· ·selection process for the concessionaire for the·8· ·restaurant?·9· · · · A.· · No, I don't recall.10· · · · Q.· · Do you recall being in a meeting when11· ·Kevin Gujral asked you who should do the concession12· ·process for the restaurant as between -- let me13· ·finish -- as between the Park District, on the one14· ·hand, and the City, on the other hand?15· · · · A.· · Oh, I don't know.16· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· Objection, assumes facts not in17· ·evidence.18· ·BY MR. NOVACK:19· · · · Q.· · Do you recall that subject ever coming20· ·up in your presence?21· · · · MR. BURNS:· Do you recall?22· ·BY THE WITNESS:23· · · · A.· · No, I don't recall.24

Page 43·1· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·2· · · · Q.· · Do you know why the Park District was·3· ·picked to be the party to process the concession·4· ·through for the restaurant in Millennium Park?·5· · · · MR. BURNS:· Do you have any recollection?·6· ·BY THE WITNESS:·7· · · · A.· · I don't have any recollection of that.·8· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·9· · · · Q.· · We'll get to that in a minute.· Do you10· ·remember asking anybody at any time who owned11· ·Millennium Park?12· · · · MR. BURNS:· Do you recall?13· ·BY THE WITNESS:14· · · · A.· · I don't recall.15· ·BY MR. NOVACK:16· · · · Q.· · Do you know who owned Millennium Park?17· · · · MR. BURNS:· He's asking about legal title18· ·rights to.19· ·BY THE WITNESS:20· · · · A.· · No, I don't know legally who owns it.21· ·No.22· ·BY MR. NOVACK:23· · · · Q.· · Did you ever own that?24· · · · A.· · I don't recall.

Page 44·1· · · · Q.· · Okay.· Let's take a look at Exhibit 150,·2· ·please.·3· · · · MR. BURNS:· Could we take a two-minute break?·4· · · · MR. NOVACK:· Of course.·5· · · · MR. BURNS:· Thank you.· I appreciate that.·6· · · · · · · · · (WHEREUPON, a recess was had.)·7· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·8· · · · Q.· · So, Mr. Mayor, let me just say to you·9· ·that whether you view the park as your legacy or10· ·not, I do, and I think it's great.· The park is11· ·great.· My clients think it's a legacy and a real12· ·badge of honor for you, so I must be asking my13· ·questions wrong.14· · · · · · · So let me ask you to get more15· ·collective, as opposed to you.· You mentioned that16· ·a lot of things that I asked you about, Yeah, that17· ·is was the committee that believed that.18· · · · · · · Could you tell us who you mean when you19· ·refer to a committee was developing it?20· · · · A.· · The concept was a public-private21· ·partnership.· The concept was from the City and22· ·from the private business community to give a gift23· ·on behalf of the people of the City of Chicago that24· ·built this city.· And the concept was to do


1· ·something unusual, as it grew, and different than·2· ·any other gift given to the citizens of its city.·3· · · · Q.· · When you talk about the business·4· ·community, is that the group that sometimes has·5· ·been referred to as the donors?·6· · · · A.· · Yes, the donors.· It would be the·7· ·donors.· I don't know what the exact committee·8· ·would be, but it was a group of the business·9· ·leaders that stood forward with John Bryan and10· ·others.11· · · · Q.· · And then the partnership included then12· ·the City?13· · · · A.· · The City of Chicago.14· · · · Q.· · And did it include the Park District?15· · · · A.· · It would include the Park District.16· · · · Q.· · Okay.· And Mr. Uhlir, what was his role?17· · · · MR. BURNS:· Uhlir.· Do you remember?18· ·BY MR. NOVACK:19· · · · Q.· · Uhlir.20· · · · A.· · Yeah, I know Ed Uhlir.· His role -- I21· ·don't know at what time, but he -- I don't know if22· ·he worked for the Park District or for the23· ·committee or for the City at different times.· I24· ·wouldn't try to figure it out.

Page 46·1· · · · Q.· · Was he what you might call the project·2· ·director for the development of the park?·3· · · · A.· · I don't know if his official title was,·4· ·but -- I don't know what his official title was.·5· · · · Q.· · And do you know how he got that·6· ·position?·7· · · · A.· · He worked very closely with the business·8· ·community because -- since they were putting almost·9· ·half the money into the project.10· · · · Q.· · Was he in the government before he took11· ·on that role?12· · · · A.· · I think he was in the government.13· · · · Q.· · Which government was he working for?14· · · · A.· · I believe maybe the Park District or the15· ·City.· I'm not sure --16· · · · MR. BURNS:· That's fine.17· ·BY THE WITNESS:18· · · · A.· · -- at that time.19· · · · MR. BURNS:· That's what he's talking about,20· ·prior to Millennium Park.21· · · · THE WITNESS:· Right.22· ·BY MR. NOVACK:23· · · · Q.· · And are you pleased with how the24· ·partnership, the committee, all of these parties

Page 47·1· ·put this thing together as a successful park?·2· · · · A.· · Oh, I think that people would say that·3· ·it's the most unusual, different park ever built in·4· ·a city, not only in America but in the world, yes.·5· · · · Q.· · And did the -- did the group desire to·6· ·have a well-run park?·7· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· Steve, could you keep your·8· ·voice up?· I'm sitting here, and I can hardly hear·9· ·you.10· · · · MR. NOVACK:· I'm sorry.· I just don't want you11· ·to think that I'm too loud, but it's for the12· ·benefit of them, not for the detriment of you.13· · · · THE WITNESS:· Okay.14· ·BY MR. NOVACK:15· · · · Q.· · Okay.· Did you understand that this16· ·group consisting of the donors, the City, the Park17· ·District, Mr. Uhlir, did the group want to see a18· ·well-run and functioning park?19· · · · A.· · Well, I believe they wanted to construct20· ·an unusual, different type of a park that never21· ·existed in the world.· That was the concept.22· · · · Q.· · And they wanted the people of Chicago to23· ·be able to enjoy it?24· · · · A.· · The people of Chicago to enjoy it and

Page 48·1· ·the world to enjoy it.·2· · · · Q.· · And the people that would come there·3· ·would enjoy it if it was running well, by competent·4· ·organizations?·5· · · · A.· · Yes.·6· · · · Q.· · Okay.· And one of the things that the·7· ·group wanted was a restaurant for the people to be·8· ·able to eat at when they came to the park?·9· · · · MR. BURNS:· I think we established that is10· ·part of the concept.11· ·BY THE WITNESS:12· · · · A.· · Yes, I think that was part of the13· ·concept.14· ·BY MR. NOVACK:15· · · · Q.· · And the group wanted a good operator so16· ·that the restaurant ran smoothly and efficiently?17· · · · A.· · I don't know anything about a good18· ·operator.· They wanted an operator.19· · · · Q.· · Well, I assume the group would not have20· ·wanted a bad operator?21· · · · MR. BURNS:· I think you are asking him --22· ·BY THE WITNESS:23· · · · A.· · I don't know who is bad or good.· I24· ·mean, that's -- I can't figure that one out.


1· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·2· · · · Q.· · And did you understand that the group·3· ·collectively decided that the Park District would·4· ·be the entity that would engage third-party vendors·5· ·through a concession process?·6· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· Objection, foundation, asked·7· ·and answered.·8· · · · MR. BURNS:· Do you know?·9· ·BY THE WITNESS:10· · · · A.· · No, I wouldn't know.11· ·BY MR. NOVACK:12· · · · Q.· · Who did you think at the time was13· ·soliciting possible concessionaires to operate the14· ·facilities at the park?15· · · · MR. BURNS:· Did you know?· Do you recall?16· ·BY THE WITNESS:17· · · · A.· · I don't recall.· I don't know if it was18· ·a combination or one or two.19· ·BY MR. NOVACK:20· · · · Q.· · At the time did you -- do you think at21· ·the time that you knew, even if you may not22· ·remember it today?23· · · · A.· · I don't recall.· I just don't know.24· · · · Q.· · So the combination would be what, City

Page 50·1· ·and Park District?·2· · · · A.· · It could be City and Park District and·3· ·business community as well, the committee.·4· · · · Q.· · Did the group direct that there be a·5· ·request for a qualifications issued for the·6· ·restaurant to potential restauranteurs who would·7· ·want to operate the restaurant?·8· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· Object to the form of the·9· ·question.10· · · · MR. BURNS:· Do you remember that process?11· ·BY THE WITNESS:12· · · · A.· · Well, I wouldn't recall.13· ·BY MR. NOVACK:14· · · · Q.· · Let's look at Exhibit 214.· This15· ·document purports to be a request for16· ·qualifications for food service opportunities at17· ·the Millennium Park.18· · · · · · · Did you ever see this document before19· ·today?20· · · · MR. BURNS:· Do you recall?21· ·BY THE WITNESS:22· · · · A.· · No, I don't recall if I saw it.23· · · · MR. BURNS:· You don't recall?24· · · · THE WITNESS:· I don't recall.

Page 51·1· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·2· · · · Q.· · If you look at page 3 of the document --·3· · · · MR. BURNS:· The pages are up at the top.·4· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·5· · · · Q.· · The third page of the document.·6· · · · MR. BURNS:· Which is page 5, the Introduction·7· ·section.· That is what you are talking about?·8· · · · MR. NOVACK:· That's correct.·9· · · · MR. BURNS:· This is what he wants you to look10· ·at.11· ·BY MR. NOVACK:12· · · · Q.· · In the first sentence, you will see it13· ·says, "The Chicago Park District is inviting14· ·Chicago restaurant facility operators," and then it15· ·goes on from there to submit qualification16· ·packages?17· · · · A.· · That is what it says, yes.18· · · · Q.· · Does that refresh your recollection that19· ·the Chicago Park District is the agency that issued20· ·the request for qualifications?21· · · · A.· · If it says it.22· · · · Q.· · Do you have any reason to doubt that it23· ·was the Park District?24· · · · A.· · No, I don't doubt it.· No.

Page 52·1· · · · Q.· · Is that something that makes sense,·2· ·according to your understanding as the Mayor of·3· ·Chicago?·4· · · · A.· · Well, it just says there, "The Chicago·5· ·Park District is providing."·6· · · · MR. BURNS:· We agree with you that is what the·7· ·language says.· He just simply doesn't recall·8· ·seeing this document.·9· ·BY MR. NOVACK:10· · · · Q.· · But is the Park District's doing that11· ·consistent with your understanding, as Mayor, of12· ·what responsibilities the Park District had?13· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· Objection, asked and answered.14· · · · MR. BURNS:· Do you recall?15· ·BY THE WITNESS:16· · · · A.· · No, I don't recall.· No.17· ·BY MR. NOVACK:18· · · · Q.· · Now, I want to ask you to look at19· ·Exhibit 74.20· · · · MR. BURNS:· What was the number on that one,21· ·please, Steve?22· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· 214.23· · · · MR. BURNS:· Thank you.24


1· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·2· · · · Q.· · And 74 purports to be a request for a·3· ·proposal for the restaurant opportunity at·4· ·Millennium Park.· Do you see that on the title of·5· ·it?·6· · · · A.· · Yes, I do.·7· · · · Q.· · And then in the page that is entitled·8· ·General Invitation, which I believe you are on·9· ·right now, the first sentence again reads, "The10· ·Chicago Park District invites submission of11· ·proposals for the restaurant."12· · · · · · · Does that refresh your memory that the13· ·Park District is the entity that issued the14· ·requests for proposals?15· · · · MR. BURNS:· He's asking if you recall.16· ·BY THE WITNESS:17· · · · A.· · I don't recall, but I'm looking at it18· ·now.· It says that they did.19· ·BY MR. NOVACK:20· · · · Q.· · And that is something that is consistent21· ·with your understanding of what the Park District22· ·was doing at that time?23· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· Same objection, asked and24· ·answered.

Page 54·1· · · · MR. BURNS:· Do you understand the question?·2· · · · THE WITNESS:· No, I don't understand the·3· ·question.·4· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·5· · · · Q.· · Did you know what the role of the Park·6· ·District was in the Chicago city government?·7· · · · MR. BURNS:· In the government or in regards to·8· ·this?·9· ·BY MR. NOVACK:10· · · · Q.· · Just generally, did you know what the11· ·Park District's sort of role and responsibility12· ·was?13· · · · MR. BURNS:· For city government?· And I don't14· ·want to sound like I'm quibbling with you, but the15· ·City government or the parks?16· · · · MR. NOVACK:· For the parks, of course.17· ·BY THE WITNESS:18· · · · A.· · The Chicago Park District, why it was19· ·formed and when?· I don't have the exact date when20· ·the Chicago Park District was formed and for the21· ·purpose of the Chicago Park District, why it was22· ·formed.23· · · · · · · But it deals with the Chicago Park24· ·District facilities for recreation.· I don't know

Page 55·1· ·what -- the purpose of it but --·2· · · · MR. BURNS:· It's a general statement.·3· ·BY THE WITNESS:·4· · · · A.· · As a general statement.·5· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·6· · · · Q.· · So would the issuance of a proposal for·7· ·operating a restaurant within a park then be·8· ·consistent with what you just said your·9· ·understanding was of what the Park District was10· ·supposed to be doing?11· · · · MR. BURNS:· Well, if you are talking more12· ·specifically about this --13· · · · MR. NOVACK:· I'm asking generally.14· · · · MR. BURNS:· Well, you tied it into this15· ·document here.· I mean, what the Park District does16· ·specifically as to this, he said he doesn't recall.17· ·He understands from reading it, it was sent out,18· ·but he doesn't recall seeing this document.19· ·BY MR. NOVACK:20· · · · Q.· · If you look at the bottom of that page,21· ·you will see that it says that the request was22· ·issued August 17, 2001.· Do you see that?23· · · · MR. BURNS:· This document.· That is what it24· ·says?· Key date.· That is what the document says,

Page 56·1· ·August 17, 2001.·2· ·BY THE WITNESS:·3· · · · A.· · That is what it says.·4· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·5· · · · Q.· · Does the document also say at the·6· ·bottom of that column the proposal due date of·7· ·September 21, 2001?·8· · · · A.· · That is what it says.·9· · · · Q.· · Do you remember that the proposals were10· ·due ten days after the tragedy on 9/11?11· · · · A.· · I don't recall.12· · · · Q.· · Would you look at Exhibit 348, please.13· ·This is 348.14· · · · MR. BURNS:· Yes.15· ·BY MR. NOVACK:16· · · · Q.· · And what this is, for the record, is --17· ·purports to be an article in the --18· · · · MR. BURNS:· I'll make it easy.19· ·BY MR. NOVACK:20· · · · Q.· · -- Chicago Sun-Times, dated21· ·February 12th of '05.22· · · · MR. BURNS:· It's an article, right,23· ·February 12, '05.· Let's mark that there.· 2/12/05.24· ·This is an article from that date.


1· ·BY THE WITNESS:·2· · · · A.· · Okay.·3· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·4· · · · Q.· · And you were being asked questions about·5· ·the granting of the concession award to the entity·6· ·in which the principals are Mr. Horan and·7· ·Mr. O'Malley.· This was something that the·8· ·newspapers were interested in at the time, February·9· ·of '05.10· · · · · · · And if you look down in the end of the11· ·first column, there's a quote, quoting you saying,12· ·"Remember, the bids came in two weeks after13· ·September 11th and the negotiations went on right14· ·after that period.· I'm not going to say" -- and15· ·then it goes on to talk about something else.16· · · · · · · Does that refresh your memory that you17· ·knew that the bids were coming in about two weeks18· ·after September 11th?19· · · · MR. BURNS:· That does not cause you to20· ·remember by looking at this, does it?21· ·BY THE WITNESS:22· · · · A.· · No.23· ·BY MR. NOVACK:24· · · · Q.· · Do you remember saying this to the

Page 58·1· ·reporter on or about February 12, 2005?·2· · · · A.· · I don't recall.·3· · · · Q.· · Do you deny that you said it?·4· · · · MR. BURNS:· He said he doesn't recall.·5· ·BY THE WITNESS:·6· · · · A.· · I don't recall.·7· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·8· · · · Q.· · Okay.· We'll come back to this issue, as·9· ·well.10· · · · · · · Did you know at the time when the bids11· ·were solicited how many respondents there were?12· · · · A.· · I don't recall.13· · · · Q.· · Do you recall there was a selection14· ·committee formed for the purpose of picking the15· ·restaurant operator?16· · · · A.· · I don't recall.17· · · · Q.· · Who did you think was going to pick18· ·the -- who did the group understand was going to19· ·pick the restaurant operator?20· · · · MR. BURNS:· Do you recall that process at all?21· ·BY THE WITNESS:22· · · · A.· · No, I don't recall the process at all.23· ·BY MR. NOVACK:24· · · · Q.· · Do you recall ever thinking about, Gee,

Page 59·1· ·I wonder who is going to be the restaurant·2· ·operator?·3· · · · A.· · No.·4· · · · Q.· · You came to learn who the restaurant·5· ·operator was, though, at some point?·6· · · · MR. BURNS:· Who got the contract, is that it,·7· ·Steve?·8· · · · MR. NOVACK:· Yeah.·9· · · · MR. BURNS:· The guys who got the contract.10· ·BY THE WITNESS:11· · · · A.· · Yes, after.12· · · · MR. BURNS:· After it was awarded?13· ·BY THE WITNESS:14· · · · A.· · After it was awarded.15· ·BY MR. NOVACK:16· · · · Q.· · Okay.· Let's focus on that for just a17· ·second.· Now I am asking you about your own18· ·recollections, so I'm not asking you about the19· ·group at this point.20· · · · MR. BURNS:· All of these have been his21· ·recollection --22· · · · MR. NOVACK:· Pardon?23· · · · MR. BURNS:· -- or lack thereof, as the case24· ·may be.

Page 60·1· · · · MR. NOVACK:· Right, right, right.·2· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·3· · · · Q.· · Just to get us on the same page, you are·4· ·aware that there is a restaurant in the park today?·5· · · · A.· · Yes, there is.·6· · · · Q.· · And you understand that it's being·7· ·operated by somebody, right?·8· · · · A.· · (Nodding head.)·9· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· Steve, please keep your voice10· ·up.11· ·BY MR. NOVACK:12· · · · Q.· · You know that the restaurant is called13· ·The Park Grill?14· · · · MR. BURNS:· The name of it.15· ·BY THE WITNESS:16· · · · A.· · Yes.17· ·BY MR. NOVACK:18· · · · Q.· · And that restaurant is operated by an19· ·entity in which these two gentlemen here, Matt20· ·O'Malley and Jim Horan, are the principals?21· · · · MR. BURNS:· Currently, do you know the deal?22· ·BY THE WITNESS:23· · · · A.· · Currently, legally if it is?· I don't24· ·know what has happened.


1· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·2· · · · Q.· · I would like to call that entity, the·3· ·entity that Mr. Horan and Mr. O'Malley are·4· ·principals in, Park Grill, just so that we can chat·5· ·about it by using that name.· Is that okay?·6· · · · MR. BURNS:· That sounds reasonable.·7· ·BY THE WITNESS:·8· · · · A.· · I think it is.·9· · · · MR. BURNS:· Yeah, sure.10· ·BY MR. NOVACK:11· · · · Q.· · Let's start with Mr. O'Malley.· You have12· ·known him for, what, about 15 years?13· · · · A.· · I don't know how many years, but I do14· ·know him.15· · · · Q.· · Do you think that you have known him for16· ·more than ten years?17· · · · A.· · No.· It could be 15, but I know him.18· ·Yes, I know him.19· · · · Q.· · Did you first meet him after he got the20· ·concession for the Firehouse Restaurant?· Is that21· ·the context in which you first met him?22· · · · A.· · I think in or around.· I don't know23· ·when.· It could have been in there.24· · · · Q.· · You are familiar with the Firehouse

Page 62·1· ·Restaurant?·2· · · · A.· · Yes.·3· · · · Q.· · You have eaten there many times?·4· · · · A.· · I have eaten there, yes.·5· · · · Q.· · You have had family birthday parties·6· ·there?·7· · · · A.· · Family get-togethers.·8· · · · Q.· · You even hosted a dinner there one time·9· ·for then-sitting George W. Bush?10· · · · A.· · Yes.11· · · · Q.· · And that was on his 60th birthday?12· · · · A.· · Yes, sure.· It wasn't mine.· Wish it13· ·was.14· · · · Q.· · And Jim Horan, you have actually known15· ·him longer than O'Malley; is that right?16· · · · A.· · I don't know how long I have known Jim17· ·Horan.18· · · · Q.· · Approximately how long?19· · · · A.· · I really don't know.20· · · · Q.· · What is the context in which you first21· ·came to know Jim?22· · · · A.· · He's a caterer.· He caters food.23· · · · Q.· · Has he done some catering for you or24· ·your family?

Page 63·1· · · · A.· · I don't know if he's done for me·2· ·personally.· Banquets, things like that.·3· · · · Q.· · Banquets that you have attended?·4· · · · A.· · Yes.·5· · · · Q.· · Now, when did you first learn that The·6· ·Park Grill had expressed an interest in operating·7· ·the Millennium Park restaurant?·8· · · · A.· · I don't recall.·9· · · · Q.· · Do you recall whether it was before or10· ·after it actually got the award?11· · · · MR. BURNS:· I think he said earlier it was12· ·after.13· ·BY THE WITNESS:14· · · · A.· · It was after.15· ·BY MR. NOVACK:16· · · · Q.· · Is that your recollection, it was after?17· · · · A.· · That's my recollection.18· · · · Q.· · How did you first come to learn that The19· ·Park Grill had been the successful bidder for20· ·the --21· · · · A.· · I don't know.22· · · · Q.· · -- for the restaurant?23· · · · A.· · I don't recall.24· · · · Q.· · Do you remember when that was?

Page 64·1· · · · A.· · No, I don't.·2· · · · Q.· · Do you remember how you learned it?· Did·3· ·somebody tell you?· Did you go there and see them?·4· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· Objection, asked and answered.·5· · · · MR. BURNS:· Do you have any recollection of·6· ·that?·7· ·BY THE WITNESS:·8· · · · A.· · No, I don't have any recollection.· No.·9· ·BY MR. NOVACK:10· · · · Q.· · Did you learn that The Park Grill had11· ·been awarded that concession before or after the12· ·concession agreement itself was signed?13· · · · A.· · I don't recall.14· · · · Q.· · Once you learned that they had been15· ·awarded it, though, you anticipated, didn't you,16· ·that they would sign some kind of concession17· ·agreement?18· · · · MR. BURNS:· Well, what you presumed, do you19· ·remember?20· ·BY THE WITNESS:21· · · · A.· · I wouldn't presume.· I wouldn't recall22· ·that.23· · · · MR. BURNS:· He doesn't recall the specifics of24· ·any of the contract.· If that is what you are


1· ·asking, maybe we misunderstood it.·2· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·3· · · · Q.· · I'm asking you the specifics of the·4· ·contract, that you understood that somebody that is·5· ·going to operate something in a public park·6· ·pursuant to being awarded a concession award would·7· ·sign an agreement, wouldn't you?·8· · · · A.· · It's up to their attorneys.·9· · · · MR. BURNS:· He's saying he presumed -- it's up10· ·to the attorneys, let them work out the details.11· ·BY THE WITNESS:12· · · · A.· · It's up to the attorneys.13· ·BY MR. NOVACK:14· · · · Q.· · I understand that the attorneys will15· ·structure the contract.16· · · · A.· · Yeah.17· · · · Q.· · I just want to know if you understand18· ·that entities like The Park Grill that are running19· ·operations in a public park would be expected to20· ·have a written agreement governing that?21· · · · A.· · I would expect so, yeah.22· · · · Q.· · And did you assume that somebody within23· ·this group, donors, committees, City, Park24· ·District, would be negotiating with The Park Grill

Page 66·1· ·over the terms of the agreement?·2· · · · MR. BURNS:· Do you know --·3· ·BY THE WITNESS:·4· · · · A.· · No, I wouldn't know.·5· · · · MR. BURNS:· -- the process?·6· ·BY THE WITNESS:·7· · · · A.· · I don't know the process, but someone·8· ·would be.·9· ·BY MR. NOVACK:10· · · · Q.· · Who did you understand -- did you11· ·understand that somebody within the group was going12· ·to be doing some negotiations?13· · · · MR. BURNS:· He just said a moment ago, he14· ·doesn't know who it would be, but he presumed they15· ·would have that type of discussion.16· ·BY MR. NOVACK:17· · · · Q.· · ·Would you expect, sir, that if the Park18· ·District issued the bids, collected the bids, made19· ·the selections, it would be the Park District that20· ·would negotiate that agreement?21· · · · MR. BURNS:· Don't make any assumption unless22· ·you have some basis to do it.23· ·BY THE WITNESS:24· · · · A.· · No.

Page 67·1· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·2· · · · Q.· · Now, let's get back to the questions of·3· ·these briefings.· I'm going to tell you and it's a·4· ·fact, and if anyone here says it's not, just tell·5· ·them it is not a fact.·6· · · · · · · It was in October of 2001 that The Park·7· ·Grill was awarded the concession.· Will you accept·8· ·that representation from me, that --·9· · · · MR. BURNS:· Let me see if anyone objects.10· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· It was November of 2001 but11· ·that time frame.12· ·BY MR. NOVACK:13· · · · Q.· · Let's say it's October/November 2001.14· · · · MR. BURNS:· All right.15· ·BY MR. NOVACK:16· · · · Q.· · So I would like you to look at17· ·Exhibit 131, which I will hand you in a second.18· · · · MR. BURNS:· He didn't ask you a question.19· ·BY MR. NOVACK:20· · · · Q.· · And 131 purports to be a document21· ·entitled Chicago Park District Briefing with Mayor22· ·Richard M. Daley, November 27, 2001, entitled23· ·Agenda.· Do you see that document?24· · · · A.· · Yes.

Page 68·1· · · · Q.· · Have you ever seen that document before·2· ·just now?·3· · · · A.· · No.· This is --·4· · · · MR. BURNS:· Do you recall seeing it?·5· ·BY THE WITNESS:·6· · · · A.· · I don't recall it.·7· · · · MR. BURNS:· What is the date again,·8· ·November 1st?·9· · · · THE WITNESS:· ·'01, 27.10· · · · MR. BURNS:· Thank you.11· ·BY MR. NOVACK:12· · · · Q.· · If you look sort of toward the middle13· ·left-hand column, you will see an entry called14· ·Millennium Park Ice Skating and Restaurant?15· · · · A.· · Yes.16· · · · Q.· · Does this refresh your recollection in17· ·any way, sir, that you had briefings -- one or more18· ·briefing about what was going on in Millennium Park19· ·while you were the Mayor?20· · · · MR. BURNS:· I don't think he has denied there21· ·may have been briefings.· He just doesn't recall22· ·specifics, so I don't know in terms of refreshing.23· ·BY MR. NOVACK:24· · · · Q.· · Do you see the name Laura Foxgrover in


1· ·the right-hand column?·2· · · · A.· · Yes, I do.· Yes.·3· · · · Q.· · Was she employed by the Park District?·4· · · · A.· · I believe so.·5· · · · Q.· · Does that refresh your recollection that·6· ·the Park District was overseeing the engagement on·7· ·the ice skating rink and restaurant within·8· ·Millennium Park?·9· · · · A.· · I don't recall that it would be.10· · · · MR. BURNS:· Do you recall?11· ·BY THE WITNESS:12· · · · A.· · I don't recall, but if it says that it13· ·is.14· · · · MR. BURNS:· Well, this doesn't say it.· He's15· ·asking if you recall.16· ·BY THE WITNESS:17· · · · A.· · No.· I just said it says, Ice Skating18· ·Rink and Restaurant.19· · · · MR. NOVACK:· Terry, I think you can make20· ·objections and the like, but I would kind of like21· ·to let the Mayor do the answering of the questions.22· · · · MR. BURNS:· Well, he can.23· · · · MR. NOVACK:· Because you just corrected him,24· ·and he's giving the testimony.

Page 70·1· · · · MR. BURNS:· No.· I asked him if he recalls.·2· ·BY THE WITNESS:·3· · · · A.· · I don't recall this.·4· · · · MR. BURNS:· So we can be clear on the record.·5· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·6· · · · Q.· · So you don't have any reason, of course,·7· ·to deny that you had this briefing meeting shortly·8· ·after The Park Grill was granted the award?·9· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· Objection to the form of the10· ·question, assumes facts not in evidence.11· · · · MR. BURNS:· It's argumentative with him.12· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· That too.13· · · · MR. NOVACK:· I'm not assuming the fact.· I'm14· ·asking him if he'll deny the fact.15· · · · MR. BURNS:· Well, he said he doesn't recall,16· ·so he can't deny something that he doesn't recall17· ·nor can he admit it.18· ·BY MR. NOVACK:19· · · · Q.· · Then is the answer that you can't deny20· ·it?21· · · · MR. BURNS:· He said he doesn't recall.22· ·BY THE WITNESS:23· · · · A.· · I just can't recall.24

Page 71·1· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·2· · · · Q.· · So sometime -- without putting a time·3· ·frame, do you recall a time when Larry -- do you·4· ·know who Larry Levy is?·5· · · · A.· · I mean, there's many Larry Levy's in·6· ·Chicago.·7· · · · Q.· · Do you know Larry Levy who has been in·8· ·the restaurant business for years?·9· · · · MR. BURNS:· Does that name --10· ·BY MR. NOVACK:11· · · · Q.· · Well, you don't have to look at --12· · · · MR. BURNS:· No, we are not.13· ·BY MR. NOVACK:14· · · · Q.· · Sir, you are looking at your lawyer to15· ·see what the answer is?16· · · · MR. BURNS:· He's not --17· ·BY THE WITNESS:18· · · · A.· · No, I'm not.19· ·BY MR. NOVACK:20· · · · Q.· · I'm asking you, do you know Larry Levy?21· · · · MR. BURNS:· Don't say anything.· And he's not22· ·looking to me for answers.· So let's be clear, the23· ·simple question then is, he's asking you about a24· ·Larry Levy.

Page 72·1· ·BY THE WITNESS:·2· · · · A.· · I know a number of Larry Levys.·3· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·4· · · · Q.· · Do you know any Larry Levy that is·5· ·associated with the restaurant industry?·6· · · · A.· · I know four or five, many of them that·7· ·are associated with the restaurant industry,·8· ·different types of restaurants, individual·9· ·restaurants, collective.10· · · · Q.· · Do you know an entity called the Levy11· ·Organization?12· · · · A.· · Yes.· If that is the one that you are13· ·talking about, yes, I know him.14· · · · Q.· · I want to ask you about that Larry Levy.15· ·Okay?16· · · · A.· · Yes.17· · · · Q.· · Did there come a time -- and I'll ask18· ·you the time frame later, but at any time did Larry19· ·Levy say to you that he didn't think it was20· ·workable to have a restaurant where The Park Grill21· ·Restaurant was going to be located in Millennium22· ·Park?23· · · · A.· · I don't recall.· I don't recall.24· · · · Q.· · You don't recall telling Ed Uhlir about


1· ·that conversation?·2· · · · A.· · No, I don't.·3· · · · Q.· · Do you recall talking to Jim Horan or·4· ·Matt O'Malley about that conversation?·5· · · · A.· · No.·6· · · · MR. BURNS:· We are talking about a·7· ·conversation with Larry Levy?·8· · · · MR. NOVACK:· That's correct.·9· · · · MR. BURNS:· Do you recall?10· ·BY THE WITNESS:11· · · · A.· · I don't recall.12· ·BY MR. NOVACK:13· · · · Q.· · Do you recall Mr. Levy saying to you14· ·that the restaurant was too far away from the15· ·nearest garbage pickup?16· · · · A.· · I don't recall that conversation.17· · · · Q.· · Do you recall him saying that you needed18· ·special gas cleaning and ventilation to eliminate19· ·the odor around the bean?20· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· Steve, I can't hear you now.21· ·BY MR. NOVACK:22· · · · Q.· · Do you recall him saying that you23· ·needed -- that that restaurant would need to get a24· ·special gas cleaning and ventilation system to

Page 74·1· ·eliminate any odors from around the bean?·2· · · · MR. BURNS:· He's talking about a conversation·3· ·with Mr. Levy.·4· ·BY THE WITNESS:·5· · · · A.· · No, I don't recall that.·6· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·7· · · · Q.· · Do you recall anybody in the world,·8· ·forgetting about Larry Levy now, ever saying to you·9· ·that there were problems with putting the10· ·restaurant in this particular location?11· · · · A.· · I don't recall.12· · · · Q.· · Do you know Larry Levy and his company,13· ·Levy Organization, to be very capable restaurant14· ·operators?15· · · · A.· · I believe so.16· · · · Q.· · Do you know that they operate some of17· ·the finest restaurants and other food services in18· ·the Chicago area?19· · · · A.· · I don't know where.· They could.20· · · · Q.· · Do you know the restaurant Spiaggia?21· · · · A.· · One -- yeah, a restaurant, sure.22· · · · Q.· · Do you know that they operate that?23· · · · A.· · Yes.24· · · · Q.· · Do you know that that is one of

Page 75·1· ·President Obama's favorite restaurants?·2· · · · A.· · No, I didn't hear that.·3· · · · Q.· · You didn't hear that he brought·4· ·Mrs. Obama there for Valentine's Day --·5· · · · A.· · No.·6· · · · Q.· · -- on Air Force One?·7· · · · A.· · No.·8· · · · MR. BURNS:· It must be special then to do all·9· ·of that.10· ·BY THE WITNESS:11· · · · A.· · Special.12· ·BY MR. NOVACK:13· · · · Q.· · Do you believe Larry Levy and the Levy14· ·Organization to be at least as competent as The15· ·Park Grill?16· · · · MR. BURNS:· I mean, he said earlier he found17· ·they were capable.18· ·BY MR. NOVACK:19· · · · Q.· · Now I'm asking, do you think they were20· ·at least as capable as The Park Grill operation?21· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· Objection, foundation.22· · · · MR. BURNS:· Are you able to answer it?· He's23· ·asking to compare the two, compare Mr. Horan and24· ·Mr. O'Malley --

Page 76·1· ·BY THE WITNESS:·2· · · · A.· · I think they are both good.·3· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·4· · · · Q.· · So do you think that Larry and the Levy·5· ·Organization are at least as competent?· Maybe they·6· ·are more, but are they at least as competent, in·7· ·your estimate?·8· · · · MR. BURNS:· I don't think that he can answer·9· ·any differently than what he just said, "I think10· ·they are both good."11· ·BY THE WITNESS:12· · · · A.· · They are both good.13· ·BY MR. NOVACK:14· · · · Q.· · Do you understand Larry Levy and the15· ·Levy Organization to be at least as financially16· ·sound as The Park Grill?17· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· Objection to foundation.· How18· ·would he know?19· ·BY THE WITNESS:20· · · · A.· · I don't know that.21· ·BY MR. NOVACK:22· · · · Q.· · I would like you to look at Exhibit 343,23· ·and this is a news release from the Office of the24· ·Mayor, Richard Daley, dated December 17, 2001,


1· ·entitled First Attraction of Lakefront Millennium·2· ·Park Opens December 20th.·3· · · · · · · Sorry.· I want to focus you on the first·4· ·paragraph first.·5· · · · A.· · Okay.·6· · · · Q.· · Does that -- that is the paragraph --·7· ·that confirms that the ice skating rink at·8· ·Millennium Park was going to have a grand opening·9· ·on December 20, 2001?10· · · · A.· · I believe so.11· · · · Q.· · Okay.· I'm sorry.12· · · · MR. BURNS:· He was referencing later in that13· ·same page, there's a reference to Daniel Burnham.14· ·BY THE WITNESS:15· · · · A.· · Daniel Burnham.16· ·BY MR. NOVACK:17· · · · Q.· · That is where it says, The park was18· ·inspired by Daniel Burnham's make-no-little-plans19· ·vision?20· · · · A.· · Correct.21· · · · Q.· · Right.· ·And if you will look on the22· ·second page, please, underneath those sort of23· ·dashes, there's a paragraph that starts, "Other24· ·features."· Do you see that?

Page 78·1· · · · · · · And it says, "Other features of·2· ·Millennium Park will include a full-service·3· ·restaurant just east of the ice rink and a·4· ·three-block-long promenade for art fairs and other·5· ·temporary attractions."· Do you see that?·6· · · · A.· · Yes, I do.·7· · · · Q.· · By that time, when your office issued·8· ·the announcement to the public that there would be·9· ·such a restaurant, did you know that Park Grill was10· ·going to be operating that restaurant?11· · · · A.· · I wouldn't recall.12· · · · Q.· · Did you attend the opening of the ice13· ·rink?· Do you remember?14· · · · A.· · I don't remember, but I don't know if it15· ·was the --16· · · · Q.· · Do you remember a ribbon cutting for the17· ·opening of the ice rink that year?18· · · · MR. BURNS:· This is the year.19· ·BY THE WITNESS:20· · · · A.· · 2001?21· · · · MR. BURNS:· If you remember.22· ·BY THE WITNESS:23· · · · A.· · I don't remember.24· · · · MR. BURNS:· That's fine.· If you don't, just

Page 79·1· ·tell him.·2· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·3· · · · Q.· · So by no later than December of '01, is·4· ·it fair to say that you knew there was going to be·5· ·a restaurant at that particular location but you·6· ·did not know who was going to operate it?·7· · · · A.· · I don't recall.·8· · · · MR. BURNS:· He knows you don't recall.·9· ·Holding that contract, he's asking you, based upon10· ·this, was there an understanding, whoever was going11· ·to be there, there was a planned restaurant?12· ·BY THE WITNESS:13· · · · A.· · Yes.· It says, "Will include a14· ·full-service restaurant just east of the ice rink."15· ·It says then, "A three-block-long promenade."16· ·BY MR. NOVACK:17· · · · Q.· · Then if you turn a couple pages to a18· ·page that has 7940 as the number at the bottom of19· ·it.· It says, Mayor Richard M. Daley will20· ·officially open the ice rink on Thursday,21· ·December 20th.· Then it says at 6:45 a.m. you would22· ·cut the ribbon?23· · · · A.· · Yes, i see that.24· · · · Q.· · Does that refresh your recollection that

Page 80·1· ·you did that?·2· · · · A.· · No, it doesn't refresh it, but I hope I·3· ·was there.·4· · · · Q.· · Okay.· You didn't do any of the ice·5· ·skating, did you?·6· · · · A.· · No, I didn't.·7· · · · Q.· · Now, at some point, sir, didn't you·8· ·become disappointed in how long it was taking to·9· ·get the concession agreement from Park Grill10· ·signed?11· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· Objection, foundation.12· · · · MR. BURNS: Do you remember?13· ·BY THE WITNESS:14· · · · A.· · I don't remember.· I don't recall.15· ·BY MR. NOVACK:16· · · · Q.· · Well, let me see if I can refresh your17· ·memory.· Do you remember talking with Matt O'Malley18· ·at the Firehouse, when you were there for lunch one19· ·day -- and to get a time frame here, the concession20· ·agreement -- and this is a fact.· Again, if I say21· ·it wrong, somebody will tell you.22· · · · · · · The concession agreement itself was23· ·signed in February of 2003.24· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· That's fine.· Just keep your


1· ·voice up though, please.·2· · · · MR. NOVACK:· Okay.·3· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·4· · · · Q.· · And I'm asking you, sir, to try to·5· ·pinpoint that time period, if you can, and if you·6· ·can't, we'll ask it without the time frame.·7· · · · · · · When you were at lunch at the Firehouse·8· ·and you asked Matt, What is the status of the·9· ·concession agreement --10· · · · A.· · I don't recall.11· · · · Q.· · Without regard to a time frame, do you12· ·recall a time, any time when you talked to Matt and13· ·said to him, What is going on with the concession14· ·agreement?15· · · · A.· · Not specifically, no.16· · · · Q.· · Generally do you recall that?17· · · · A.· · Could be.18· · · · Q.· · Let me see if I could refresh it by19· ·suggesting to you that Matt's response was, The20· ·lawyers are holding things up.· Does that refresh21· ·your memory in any way?22· · · · A.· · No.23· · · · Q.· · And you asked him, What lawyers are you24· ·referring to?· Do you recall that?

Page 82·1· · · · A.· · No, I don't recall.·2· · · · Q.· · And Mr. O'Malley said it was the Park·3· ·District lawyers that were holding it up?·4· · · · A.· · I don't recall.·5· · · · Q.· · Do you recall ever being concerned about·6· ·the time it was taking to get the restaurant in·7· ·place so that it could open up?·8· · · · A.· · No, I don't recall.·9· · · · Q.· · Let me ask you to look at Exhibit 117,10· ·if you would.· I will hand it to you in a moment.11· · · · · · · And this document purports to be a12· ·memorandum to Sheila O'Grady, chief of staff, John13· ·Doerrer, director of intergovernmental affairs, and14· ·Tim Mitchell, chief of infrastructure, from Joe15· ·Cini, director of intergovernmental and community16· ·affairs, dated July 29, 2002.17· · · · · · · And after -- whenever you are ready, I'm18· ·going to direct your attention to what is called19· ·Item No. 3 on the first page, Millennium Park20· ·Restaurant.21· · · · A.· · Okay.22· · · · Q.· · And in that paragraph, there's a23· ·description generally of some of the business terms24· ·of the permit agreement that was going to be

Page 83·1· ·submitted to the committee at the Park District.·2· · · · · · · Do you see that identified there?·3· · · · A.· · Yes.·4· · · · Q.· · While you were Mayor, was it the regular·5· ·practice of the Park District to submit to Sheila·6· ·O'Grady, your chief of staff, the business terms of·7· ·things that were going to be presented to the board·8· ·committee for approval?·9· · · · A.· · I don't -- I wouldn't recall.10· · · · Q.· · Did Sheila O'Grady customarily tell you11· ·what those business terms were?12· · · · A.· · I don't recall.13· · · · MR. BURNS:· He's talking about this contract.14· ·BY THE WITNESS:15· · · · A.· · This contract.· I don't recall.16· ·BY MR. NOVACK:17· · · · Q.· · Do you recall ever seeing this document?18· · · · A.· · I don't recall this.19· · · · Q.· · Do you recall Sheila O'Grady ever20· ·telling you about the business terms of The Park21· ·Grill concession agreement?22· · · · A.· · I don't recall.23· · · · Q.· · Do you recall her ever telling you about24· ·the proposed terms that were contemplated to be

Page 84·1· ·entered into?·2· · · · A.· · I don't recall.·3· · · · Q.· · Did she come to you for approval of·4· ·those terms?·5· · · · A.· · I don't recall.·6· · · · Q.· · Do you recall her ever coming to you for·7· ·approval of any concession agreement at Millennium·8· ·Park?·9· · · · A.· · I don't recall any.10· · · · Q.· · Now, when the park was being designed --11· ·strike that.12· · · · · · · When the restaurant was being designed,13· ·do you recall that you were being briefed about the14· ·design of the restaurant?15· · · · A.· · I don't recall.16· · · · Q.· · Do you recall Mr. Horan and Mr. O'Malley17· ·coming to your office and showing you renditions of18· ·what the interior of the restaurant was going to19· ·look like?20· · · · A.· · They could have.· I wouldn't recall.21· ·They could have.22· · · · Q.· · Do you recall giving your input?23· · · · A.· · I don't recall.24· · · · Q.· · Do you recall asking them to move the


1· ·bar from the front of the restaurant to the back of·2· ·the restaurant because you thought that would be·3· ·more family friendly?·4· · · · A.· · I don't recall.·5· · · · Q.· · Do you think it's more family friendly·6· ·for a park, like Millennium Park, to have a bar in·7· ·the back of a restaurant rather than the front?·8· · · · MR. BURNS:· Objection, lack of foundation.· I·9· ·mean what his view is --10· ·BY THE WITNESS:11· · · · A.· · I don't recall.12· · · · MR. BURNS:· -- is irrelevant.13· ·BY MR. NOVACK:14· · · · Q.· · Does me asking you these questions15· ·refresh your recollection that that is what you16· ·suggested --17· · · · A.· · I don't recall.18· · · · Q.· · -- to these people?19· · · · A.· · I don't recall.20· · · · Q.· · Do you recall that toward the fall of21· ·2003, that you were pushing to get the restaurant22· ·opened?23· · · · A.· · I don't recall.24· · · · Q.· · Do you recall ever having any views on

Page 86·1· ·when the restaurant should open?·2· · · · A.· · I don't recall.·3· · · · Q.· · Do you recall that in the fall of '03·4· ·the restaurant did not yet have a liquor license?·5· · · · A.· · I don't recall.·6· · · · Q.· · Do you recall them telling you that it·7· ·would be very difficult to open the restaurant --·8· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· I could not even hear your·9· ·question.10· ·BY MR. NOVACK:11· · · · Q.· · The question was, do you recall that in12· ·the fall of 2003, that the restaurant did not yet13· ·have a liquor license?14· · · · MR. BURNS:· And he said he didn't recall that.15· ·BY THE WITNESS:16· · · · A.· · I don't recall that.17· ·BY MR. NOVACK:18· · · · Q.· · I was just repeating the question for19· ·his benefit.· I was not trying to get him to change20· ·his answer.21· · · · A.· · No.· I just said, I don't recall.22· · · · MR. BURNS:· Okay.23· ·BY MR. NOVACK:24· · · · Q.· · Do you recall Mr. O'Malley or Mr. Horan

Page 87·1· ·saying to you that that would be very difficult to·2· ·open the restaurant without a liquor license?·3· · · · A.· · I don't recall.·4· · · · Q.· · Do you recall that you actually attended·5· ·the announcement of the opening of the restaurant?·6· · · · A.· · I don't recall if I did or not.·7· · · · Q.· · Okay.· I'll show you another exhibit.·8· ·It's going to be 347.· 347 is a picture of a bunch·9· ·of people standing in front of some buildings.· Do10· ·you recognize yourself in that picture?11· · · · A.· · It's kind of blurry.· I guess it's me,12· ·if it is.13· · · · MR. BURNS:· At the podium.14· ·BY MR. NOVACK:15· · · · Q.· · You don't recall if that's you?16· · · · A.· · No.· I'm just saying it's blurry.17· · · · Q.· · But is it you, sir?18· · · · A.· · I hope so, yeah.19· · · · Q.· · Do you recognize Mr. O'Malley in that20· ·picture?21· · · · A.· · Yes, there he is.22· · · · Q.· · Do you recognize Mr. Horan?23· · · · A.· · He's adjacent to him, if that is him.24· · · · Q.· · Yes, that is him.· In fact, I'll show

Page 88·1· ·you another picture -- in fact, let me just --·2· · · · A.· · These are kind of blurry.·3· · · · Q.· · These are copies of pictures.· I get·4· ·that.· Nobody is trying to trick you.· Let me show·5· ·you Exhibit 361, which is another picture on the·6· ·same day that might be a little clearer,·7· ·particularly for Mr. Horan.· Is it?·8· · · · A.· · Yeah.·9· · · · Q.· · You now recognize Mr. Horan being there?10· · · · A.· · Yes.11· · · · Q.· · And just so we can get some more12· ·identification -- I'm sorry.13· · · · MR. BURNS:· That's okay.14· · · · MR. NOVACK:· Can I move this here?15· · · · MR. BURNS:· ·Absolutely.· Go ahead.· 347 and16· ·361 are the two that I have.17· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· This one is 361, correct?18· · · · MR. NOVACK:· Where is the one with the holes?19· ·Can I have that back?· That is the same one.· I20· ·just want to put this back in my book.21· ·BY MR. NOVACK:22· · · · Q.· · So Mr. O'Malley is on the right, as you23· ·are looking, and Mr. Horan is next to him?24· · · · A.· · Yes.


1· · · · Q.· · And in Exhibit 347 you are the one at·2· ·the podium?·3· · · · A.· · Yes.·4· · · · Q.· · Who are the people -- in the picture·5· ·where you are at the podium, who is behind you to·6· ·your right there?·7· · · · A.· · O'Malley.·8· · · · Q.· · Those three people?· ·No, no, the other·9· ·direction.10· · · · MR. BURNS:· To your right.· This guy here?11· · · · MR. NOVACK:· Yeah.12· · · · MR. BURNS:· The fellow with the moustache?13· · · · MR. NOVACK:· Correct, standing next to a14· ·woman.15· ·BY THE WITNESS:16· · · · A.· · It could be the Park District17· ·commissioner.· I'm not sure.· It could be him.18· ·BY MR. NOVACK:19· · · · Q.· · Do you recognize the woman?20· · · · A.· · It's not a clear enough picture.· I21· ·don't know who it is.22· · · · Q.· · Is it clearer in the other one maybe?23· · · · A.· · She's not in there.24· · · · Q.· · She's hidden by you.

Page 90·1· · · · A.· · Right.·2· · · · Q.· · So let's forget about her.· Is Mr. David·3· ·Doig next to the woman?·4· · · · A.· · Yeah, that's David.·5· · · · Q.· · Mr. David Doig is the person at the·6· ·podium, and the podium in Exhibit 361.·7· · · · MR. BURNS:· This is Doig here, he's at the·8· ·podium?·9· ·BY THE WITNESS:10· · · · A.· · Yes.· The other person, it's not clear11· ·enough to see her face.12· · · · MR. BURNS:· That is in 347?13· ·BY MR. NOVACK:14· · · · Q.· · That's okay.· Frankly --15· · · · A.· · It could be --16· · · · Q.· · I don't care who she is right now.17· · · · A.· · We could figure it out.18· · · · Q.· · I don't want to spend any more time.19· · · · · · · And the podium at which you are speaking20· ·in the first of those two exhibits, 347, and21· ·Mr. Doig is speaking in the second of the two, in22· ·361, the emblem on there is Chicago Park District,23· ·correct?24· · · · A.· · Yes, it is.

Page 91·1· · · · Q.· · And you are there, aren't you, for the·2· ·opening of the ice rink and the restaurant for that·3· ·year -- the ice rink being open for that year and·4· ·the restaurant being open for the first time?·5· · · · A.· · I don't know what it was for but -- I·6· ·don't recall.·7· · · · Q.· · Do you remember that there was an·8· ·emblem, like a banner?· It is vague here but a·9· ·banner on top of the restaurant?10· · · · A.· · I don't see it.· I can't make it out.11· · · · Q.· · Why were Mr. O'Malley and Mr. Horan12· ·there?13· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· Objection to the form of the14· ·question.15· · · · MR. BURNS:· Do you know why -- you don't even16· ·know what the event is.17· ·BY THE WITNESS:18· · · · A.· · I can't recall what the event is.19· ·BY MR. NOVACK:20· · · · Q.· · Is it your understanding that they were21· ·there because they were owning the restaurant?22· · · · MR. BURNS:· Do you know?23· ·BY THE WITNESS:24· · · · A.· · I don't know.

Page 92·1· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·2· · · · Q.· · Do you think they were just there·3· ·randomly?·4· · · · MR. BURNS:· Well, don't argue.· He said he·5· ·doesn't know why they were there.·6· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·7· · · · Q.· · Let's see if we can refresh your memory·8· ·on that.· Let's go to Exhibit 344, which is the·9· ·Chicago Park District's news release dated10· ·December 6, 2003, announcing that -- announcing11· ·that Mayor Daley and the Park District opened the12· ·ice rink in Millennium Park.13· · · · · · · Does that refresh your recollection that14· ·one of the reasons that you were there is because15· ·the Park District was opening the ice rink?16· · · · MR. BURNS:· Are you saying this photograph?17· · · · MR. NOVACK:· No, the news release.18· · · · MR. BURNS:· The news release, definitely you19· ·agree.· That is what it says.20· ·BY THE WITNESS:21· · · · A.· · Well, it says what it says.22· ·BY MR. NOVACK:23· · · · Q.· · That is 2003, right?24· · · · A.· · Yeah.


1· · · · Q.· · And I'll tell you another fact is that·2· ·the restaurant opened in late November of 2003.·3· · · · MR. NOVACK: Is that a fact you can confirm,·4· ·sir?·5· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· Sure.·6· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·7· · · · Q.· · So do you remember being in the park,·8· ·participating in the festivities, even speaking at·9· ·the opening of the ice rink for 2003?10· · · · A.· · No, I don't recall but --11· · · · MR. BURNS:· That's fine.· You have answered.12· ·BY MR. NOVACK:13· · · · Q.· · And if you turn the page of that, this14· ·same exhibit, look at the top paragraph on the next15· ·page.· That is describing The Park Grill, is it16· ·not, calling it the newest venture of17· ·restauranteurs Jim Horan and Matt O'Malley?18· · · · A.· · Yeah, that is what it says.19· · · · Q.· · So you understand that at this time, the20· ·Park District was announcing in its news release21· ·the opening of its restaurant and ice rink22· ·facilities for 2003?23· · · · A.· · That is what it says.24· · · · Q.· · Then if you look, please, at Exhibit 345

Page 94·1· ·that I'm about to hand you and which purports to be·2· ·a document entitled Chicago Park District, General·3· ·Superintendent David Doig, Friday, December 5,·4· ·2003, Ribbon Cutting at McCormick Tribute Ice Rink,·5· ·Millennium Park, Saturday, December 6, 2003, at·6· ·10:00 a.m.· Do you see that?·7· · · · A.· · Yes.·8· · · · Q.· · And if you -- and down from the heading,·9· ·there's a section called Acknowledgments, and10· ·apparently the acknowledgments Mr. Doig was going11· ·to make were to Mayor Richard M. Daley, the12· ·speaker.· That is you, right?13· · · · A.· · That is me.14· · · · Q.· · Alderman Burton Natarus, is that the15· ·alderman for the area in which that is located?16· · · · A.· · Yes.17· · · · Q.· · And then it has Matthew O'Malley and Jim18· ·Horan?19· · · · MR. BURNS:· It does.20· ·BY THE WITNESS:21· · · · A.· · It does, yeah.22· ·BY MR. NOVACK:23· · · · Q.· · And other than them being the owners of24· ·the restaurant that the news release described, can

Page 95·1· ·you think of any reason that they were there at·2· ·this opening?·3· · · · MR. BURNS:· Do you know?· Don't speculate.· If·4· ·you know.·5· ·BY THE WITNESS:·6· · · · A.· · I don't know.·7· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·8· · · · Q.· · So is it your understanding that when·9· ·you were there as a speaker and they were standing10· ·behind you and being acknowledged, it was because11· ·they were the owners of the restaurant?12· · · · A.· · Yes.13· · · · Q.· · Okay.· So you knew no later than14· ·December 6, 2003, that The Park Grill was the15· ·operator of The Park Grill Restaurant in Millennium16· ·Park, correct?17· · · · A.· · I don't recall.18· · · · Q.· · Well, doesn't that indicate that to you,19· ·that no later than that --20· · · · A.· · It would indicate, yeah.21· · · · Q.· · Do you know how long -- using that now22· ·as a time marker, how long prior to that was it23· ·that you learned that they were the operators?24· · · · A.· · I wouldn't recall.

Page 96·1· · · · Q.· · Did you show up at this event to give a·2· ·speech and saw them and said, What the heck are you·3· ·guys doing here?· And they told you they own the·4· ·restaurant, and that is the first time you knew·5· ·that?·6· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· Objection to the form of the·7· ·question.·8· ·BY THE WITNESS:·9· · · · A.· · I don't recall.10· ·BY MR. NOVACK:11· · · · Q.· · Did that happen?12· · · · MR. BURNS:· He's asking you if you showed13· ·up --14· ·BY MR. NOVACK:15· · · · Q.· · In other words, is it your testimony16· ·that the first time you knew they were associated17· ·with the restaurant was that day?18· · · · MR. BURNS:· Asked and answered before.19· ·BY THE WITNESS:20· · · · A.· · I don't know what I knew.21· · · · MR. BURNS:· He said he doesn't recall.22· ·BY THE WITNESS:23· · · · A.· · I just don't recall.24


1· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·2· · · · Q.· · Do you understand then that you knew it·3· ·before that day?·4· · · · MR. BURNS:· He said he doesn't recall.·5· ·BY THE WITNESS:·6· · · · A.· · I don't recall.·7· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·8· · · · Q.· · But you don't recall being surprised to·9· ·see them there, correct?10· · · · MR. BURNS:· He doesn't recall the event.11· ·BY THE WITNESS:12· · · · A.· · I don't recall.13· · · · MR. NOVACK:· Well, why are you answering?14· ·BY THE WITNESS:15· · · · A.· · I don't recall.16· · · · MR. BURNS:· I'm objecting because you keep17· ·asking the same question.18· · · · MR. NOVACK:· No, you didn't object.· You19· ·answered.20· ·BY THE WITNESS:21· · · · A.· · I just don't recall.22· · · · MR. NOVACK:· I have been patient.· And you are23· ·a nice guy, and I like to be a nice guy, and the24· ·witness is a nice guy.

Page 98·1· · · · MR. BURNS:· And I imagine you are, very much·2· ·so.·3· · · · MR. NOVACK: But you shouldn't be answering for·4· ·him.·5· · · · MR. BURNS:· I'm not answering for him.· He's·6· ·been answering, telling you he doesn't recall the·7· ·specifics.·8· · · · MR. NOVACK:· The judge will get to read this·9· ·and make his own decisions.10· · · · MR. BURNS:· I'm sure he will.11· ·BY MR. NOVACK:12· · · · Q.· · At some point then, sir, while you were13· ·the Mayor, you expected The Park Grill to operate14· ·that restaurant, right?15· · · · MR. BURNS:· Object to the form.16· ·BY MR. NOVACK:17· · · · Q.· · At some point?18· · · · MR. BURNS:· "Expected," I object to that.19· ·BY MR. NOVACK:20· · · · Q.· · It was your expectation --21· · · · A.· · Whoever has the contract --22· · · · Q.· · It was your expectation --23· · · · A.· · Whoever has a contract, has to execute24· ·the contract.

Page 99·1· · · · Q.· · So you expected they would?·2· · · · MR. BURNS:· No, he's --·3· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·4· · · · Q.· · Did you want them -- did the group --·5· · · · MR. BURNS:· Let's take a break.· He didn't·6· ·finish the answer.· We seem to be rushing now to·7· ·get through, but let's take our time.·8· · · · · · · He told you what his answer was, so just·9· ·so it's clear for the record, that whoever had the10· ·contract --11· · · · MR. NOVACK:· No, no.· Let her read the answer12· ·back, not you.13· · · · MR. BURNS:· That's okay.14· · · · MR. NOVACK:· If you want that read back for15· ·some reason.· I don't know why we have to do that.16· ·BY THE WITNESS:17· · · · A.· · Anybody that has a contract, they18· ·execute their own contract.· That is what I said.19· ·BY MR. NOVACK:20· · · · Q.· · So it would be your normal expectation,21· ·knowing that they had the contract, that they would22· ·operate the restaurant, correct?23· · · · A.· · Anyone who has a contract.24· · · · Q.· · Okay.· Including them?

Page 100·1· · · · A.· · Them included.· Everyone that has a·2· ·contract.·3· · · · Q.· · And, sir, you did not object to that,·4· ·did you?·5· · · · MR. BURNS:· Objection to the relevance -- I·6· ·mean, whatever that means, objection.·7· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· Foundation.·8· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·9· · · · Q.· · Did you have any objection to them10· ·operating the restaurant at the park?11· · · · A.· · I couldn't answer that.12· · · · Q.· · Well, only you can, sir.· Did you,13· ·internally or externally, at any point have an14· ·objection to them?15· · · · A.· · I do not object to anyone that has a16· ·contract with the City.17· · · · Q.· · So you were okay with it as long as they18· ·have the contract?19· · · · A.· · No.· I said I don't object.20· · · · Q.· · You don't object, and you didn't object21· ·in this case, correct?22· · · · A.· · I said I don't have any objection when23· ·someone gets a contract through public bidding.24· · · · Q.· · And in this case you did not express any


1· ·objection to anyone ever about them operating that·2· ·restaurant; is that correct?·3· · · · A.· · I don't express to anyone about any·4· ·contract.·5· · · · Q.· · Including this contract?·6· · · · A.· · Including any of them.·7· · · · MR. BURNS:· Do you mind if we take a little·8· ·break here again?·9· · · · MR. NOVACK:· No, not at all.10· · · · MR. BURNS:· Thank you again.11· · · · · · · · · (WHEREUPON, a recess was had.)12· ·BY MR. NOVACK:13· · · · Q.· · Mr. Daley, I noticed you out in the hall14· ·talking to Mr. McErlean.· Did you talk about this15· ·case in any way?16· · · · A.· · No.· No, we didn't.17· · · · Q.· · Your testimony?18· · · · A.· · No.19· · · · Q.· · This deposition?20· · · · A.· · No.21· · · · Q.· · I want you to look at Exhibit 346, which22· ·I have placed in front of you already, and that23· ·appears to be a liquor license signed by you for24· ·The Park Grill dated February 4, 2004.· Can you

Page 102·1· ·identify that document for us, please?·2· · · · MR. BURNS:· Read what it is.·3· ·BY THE WITNESS:·4· · · · A.· · City of Chicago, License Certificate,·5· ·Nontransferable, By the authority of the City of·6· ·Chicago, the following the specified license hereby·7· ·granted to Millennium Park Joint Venture, LLC, The·8· ·Park Grill, 11-35 North Michigan, Chicago,·9· ·Illinois.10· ·BY MR. NOVACK:11· · · · Q.· · You don't have to read every word.12· · · · A.· · Yeah.13· · · · Q.· · And you signed that liquor license?14· · · · MR. BURNS:· Well, you didn't sign but --15· ·BY MR. NOVACK:16· · · · Q.· · Well, you don't have to look at him.· I17· ·have asked you a question --18· · · · MR. BURNS:· When you sign it --19· ·BY THE WITNESS:20· · · · A.· · This --21· · · · MR. BURNS:· There's confusion.22· ·BY THE WITNESS:23· · · · A.· · -- is a stamped signature.24

Page 103·1· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·2· · · · Q.· · Well, just say that.· I don't think you·3· ·need a lawyer to help you do that.·4· · · · MR. BURNS:· He's not looking at me.·5· · · · MR. NOVACK:· Are you saying that he did not·6· ·look at you just now?·7· · · · MR. BURNS:· Let's not have this debate and go·8· ·on.· If that is going to be an issue, we will deal·9· ·with it with the Court.10· · · · MR. NOVACK:· The record is going to show that11· ·that has been going on this whole time.12· ·BY THE WITNESS:13· · · · A.· · The stamped signature right here.14· ·BY MR. NOVACK:15· · · · Q.· · Is that your signature, sir?16· · · · A.· · That is my stamped signature.17· · · · Q.· · Did you authorize that stamp to be on18· ·that document?19· · · · A.· · According to law, yeah.20· · · · Q.· · And you did so as the liquor21· ·commissioner for the City of Chicago?22· · · · A.· · As Mayor of the City of Chicago.23· · · · Q.· · As the liquor commissioner for the City24· ·of Chicago?

Page 104·1· · · · · · · Were you -- let me ask you, while you·2· ·were the Mayor, were you also the local liquor·3· ·control commissioner?·4· · · · MR. BURNS: May I?· You are referring to the·5· ·license itself?· I think he's referring to --·6· · · · MR. NOVACK:· No.· I'm asking him a question.·7· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·8· · · · Q.· · You don't even have to look at the·9· ·document.· It's a factual question.10· · · · A.· · I want to look at the document.· Issued11· ·by the Mayor, as the local liquor control12· ·commissioner, this document.13· · · · Q.· · Yeah, I can read that too.14· · · · · · · Now I'm asking you, were you the local15· ·control -- were you the local liquor control16· ·commissioner?17· · · · A.· · Yes.· I was the Mayor, as the local18· ·liquor commissioner, May 15, 2004.19· · · · Q.· · Okay.· And you knew that liquor license20· ·was for The Park Grill, correct?21· · · · A.· · I'm reading it now.· It says that.22· · · · Q.· · Did you ever express any objection to23· ·anybody in the world about the fact that this24· ·liquor license was issued to The Park Grill?


1· · · · A.· · I don't recall.· I don't recall.·2· · · · Q.· · One way or the other?·3· · · · A.· · One way or the other.·4· · · · Q.· · Did you have any objection to issuing·5· ·that liquor license?·6· · · · A.· · I don't recall.·7· · · · Q.· · Do you think you would have issued it,·8· ·if you had an objection?·9· · · · MR. BURNS:· Don't speculate.10· ·BY MR. NOVACK:11· · · · Q.· · Would you have issued a liquor license12· ·if you had an objection to doing so?13· · · · A.· · A personal objection?14· · · · Q.· · An objection, first of all, as the local15· ·liquor control commissioner.16· · · · A.· · It would be up to the commissioner that17· ·deals with the liquor licenses.18· · · · Q.· · Who is that?19· · · · A.· · At this time, I could not recall who it20· ·was.21· · · · Q.· · You weren't, the Mayor?22· · · · A.· · No.23· · · · MR. BURNS:· He's talking about the -- go24· ·ahead.

Page 106·1· ·BY THE WITNESS:·2· · · · A.· · The process.· I don't sit there and·3· ·issue a liquor license on a daily basis. The·4· ·department --·5· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·6· · · · Q.· · People do that with your authority?·7· · · · A.· · The Department of the Liquor·8· ·Commissioner handles -- the Liquor Commission·9· ·handles the process, the legal process of issuing10· ·liquor licenses.11· · · · Q.· · And do they have the authority of -- did12· ·they have your authority to do that?13· · · · A.· · Under the law, they have authority by14· ·the City of Chicago to do that, by law, rule, and15· ·regulation.16· · · · Q.· · The regulation gives them the authority17· ·to sign your name, or did you give them the18· ·authority to do that?19· · · · A.· · It gives them the authority to process20· ·and to make recommendations in regards to liquor21· ·licensing.22· · · · Q.· · And who is this recommendation made to?23· · · · A.· · Basically, the liquor commissioner.24· · · · Q.· · And who is that?

Page 107·1· · · · MR. BURNS:· Objection, asked and answered.·2· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·3· · · · Q.· · It was you, wasn't it?·4· · · · A.· · It says there.·5· · · · Q.· · Okay.· So if they made the·6· ·recommendation to you, you approved that·7· ·recommendation?·8· · · · A.· · It would be approved by the deputy in·9· ·charge first, and I would sign this.· They would10· ·sign my name.11· · · · Q.· · Did you ever tell that deputy not to12· ·sign that liquor license?13· · · · A.· · I wouldn't recall.14· · · · Q.· · One way or the other?15· · · · A.· · One way or the other.16· · · · Q.· · Is it safe to assume that if he signed17· ·it, you didn't object to it?18· · · · A.· · If the commission makes a recommendation19· ·and he signs it, it would be to follow the law --20· ·they would follow the law.21· · · · Q.· · As Mayor would you have expected that if22· ·you made an objection and told them not to sign it,23· ·you would have expected them to follow that24· ·direction?

Page 108·1· · · · A.· · There would have to be a legal reason·2· ·for that.· I would not know that.· There has to be·3· ·a legal reason.· I just can't --·4· · · · Q.· · Did the City Council amend the liquor·5· ·ordinance to allow for a liquor license at that·6· ·location in Millennium Park for the restaurant?·7· · · · A.· · I wouldn't recall.·8· · · · Q.· · One way or the other?·9· · · · A.· · One way or the other, yes.10· · · · Q.· · Did you ever have any discussions with11· ·anyone at the City Council about the liquor license12· ·for The Park Grill?13· · · · A.· · No, I don't recall.14· · · · Q.· · Did you ever have any discussions with15· ·anybody from the City Council about amending the16· ·liquor ordinance to allow for the liquor license?17· · · · A.· · I don't recall.18· · · · Q.· · Did you ever hear from anyone else how19· ·that amendment came to be?20· · · · A.· · No, I don't recall.21· · · · Q.· · Did you ever hear from anyone else --22· ·strike that.23· · · · · · · Would it be your expectation that24· ·somebody that was granted a liquor license would


1· ·use that liquor license in the location that it was·2· ·authorized?·3· · · · MR. BURNS:· Object to the form of the·4· ·question, what his expectations are in use of the·5· ·license.·6· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·7· · · · Q.· · Was it your understanding that in·8· ·operating The Park Grill Restaurant from and after·9· ·the date that they got the liquor license, that The10· ·Park Grill Restaurant would serve liquor?11· · · · A.· · If anybody had a liquor license, would12· ·have -- could serve liquor under the law.13· · · · Q.· · Do you recall meeting with Mr. Horan and14· ·Mr. O'Malley wherein they told you that --15· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· Steve, I can't hear you.16· ·BY MR. NOVACK:17· · · · Q.· · Do you recall a meeting with Mr. Horan18· ·and Mr. O'Malley in which they told you that they19· ·were having a problem getting a particular event20· ·approved?21· · · · A.· · No, I don't recall.22· · · · Q.· · Do you recall a meeting with Mr. Horan23· ·or Mr. O'Malley in which you called Jim Law into24· ·the office to answer a question?

Page 110·1· · · · A.· · No, I don't recall.·2· · · · Q.· · One way or the other?·3· · · · A.· · One way or the other.·4· · · · Q.· · Let me ask you this, do you recall any·5· ·conversations or meetings with either Mr. Horan or·6· ·Mr. O'Malley about the restaurant?·7· · · · A.· · I don't recall.·8· · · · Q.· · One way or the other?·9· · · · A.· · One way or the other.10· · · · Q.· · Do you recall any conversations with11· ·either of them about the restaurant?12· · · · A.· · I don't recall.13· · · · Q.· · One way or the other?14· · · · A.· · One way or the other.15· · · · Q.· · Please look at Exhibit 363, which is16· ·about to be handed to you, and this is a copy of a17· ·Chicago Sun-Times article dated February 11, 2005,18· ·by Tim Novak, Steve Warmbir, Robert Herguth, and19· ·Mark Brown.20· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· What is the number?21· · · · MR. NOVACK:· It's 363.22· · · · MR. BURNS:· I'm sorry.· What was the date of23· ·this one?24· · · · MR. NOVACK:· February 11, 2005.

Page 111·1· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·2· · · · Q.· · I'm going to ask you to take a look at·3· ·it, as long as it takes for you to answer the·4· ·question, which is, do you recall this article?·5· · · · A.· · No, I don't recall this article.· Sorry.·6· · · · Q.· · Do you recall that there was an article·7· ·that came out in the Chicago Sun-Times that·8· ·accused -- or that asserted that there was clout --·9· ·political clout used by friends of you, Mr. Daley,10· ·for Park Grill to have gotten the restaurant11· ·concession in Millennium Park?12· · · · A.· · No, I don't recall.13· · · · Q.· · That didn't affect you in any way --14· · · · A.· · No.15· · · · Q.· · -- that you would remember it?16· · · · MR. BURNS:· Objection.· He says he doesn't17· ·recall it.18· ·BY THE WITNESS:19· · · · A.· · I just don't recall.20· ·BY MR. NOVACK:21· · · · Q.· · Do you recall that you answered22· ·questions about the matters that were stated in23· ·that article?24· · · · A.· · I don't.· I don't recall but --

Page 112·1· · · · Q.· · Do you remember that people that·2· ·reported to you knew this article was coming out a·3· ·couple days before it came out?· Do you remember·4· ·that?·5· · · · A.· · No, I don't.· I don't recall.·6· · · · Q.· · Do you remember directing Sheila O'Grady·7· ·to call Matt O'Malley to ask him about who the·8· ·investors were?·9· · · · A.· · No, I don't recall.10· · · · Q.· · One way or the other, sir?11· · · · MR. BURNS:· He's asking, do you recall.12· ·BY THE WITNESS:13· · · · A.· · I don't recall.14· ·BY MR. NOVACK:15· · · · Q.· · One way or the other?16· · · · A.· · One way or the other.17· · · · Q.· · Please look at Exhibit -- keep that18· ·handy.· Look at 149, and 149 is a letter dated19· ·February 9, 2005, addressed to Mr. O'Malley and20· ·Mr. Horan from Mara Georges, corporation counsel.21· · · · · · · I'm first going to ask you if you recall22· ·seeing that letter before today?23· · · · A.· · No, I don't recall seeing this letter.24· · · · Q.· · Do you recall ever being -- ever knowing


1· ·that Mrs. Georges was going to send the letter to·2· ·Mr. O'Malley and Mr. Horan --·3· · · · A.· · No.·4· · · · Q.· · -- at any time?·5· · · · A.· · I don't recall.·6· · · · Q.· · Do you remember that there was an·7· ·occasion when the City and The Park Grill engaged·8· ·in discussions about a possible renegotiation of·9· ·The Park Grill concession agreement?10· · · · A.· · I don't recall.11· · · · Q.· · One way or the other?· Okay.12· · · · · · · Now, the newspaper article alleged that13· ·The Park Grill got the concession because friends14· ·of yours were among the investors.· Did you agree15· ·with that at the time?16· · · · A.· · What?17· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· Object to the form of the18· ·question.19· ·BY MR. NOVACK:20· · · · Q.· · Did you agree --21· · · · MR. BURNS:· Let him finish and then let's --22· ·BY MR. NOVACK:23· · · · Q.· · At any time did you believe that The24· ·Park Grill got its concession because of political

Page 114·1· ·clout?·2· · · · MR. BURNS:· Objection.· You asked and he·3· ·answered that earlier.·4· · · · MR. NOVACK:· No, I have not asked it.· Let's·5· ·just have him answer it.· And if you are right, the·6· ·question and answer won't mean a thing.·7· ·BY THE WITNESS:·8· · · · A.· · Anyone would have to follow the legal·9· ·requirements under the law, whoever handled the10· ·issue, legal requirements.11· ·BY MR. NOVACK:12· · · · Q.· · My question to you, sir, is, at any time13· ·did you -- through and including today, did you14· ·believe that The Park Grill got its concession15· ·agreement through political clout?16· · · · A.· · Everyone would have to follow the law in17· ·the process of getting a contract with any18· ·government agency.19· · · · Q.· · Did they follow the law?20· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· Objection.21· ·BY MR. NOVACK:22· · · · Q.· · Do you know?23· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· Objection, calls for a legal24· ·conclusion.

Page 115·1· ·BY THE WITNESS:·2· · · · A.· · I don't know.·3· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·4· · · · Q.· · You don't know.· Now I want to ask the·5· ·question that you have not answered, sir.·6· · · · A.· · What is that?·7· · · · Q.· · At any time up to and including today,·8· ·have you ever believed that The Park Grill got its·9· ·concession through political clout?10· · · · A.· · I don't think that -- they followed the11· ·law, and if they received the contract, they12· ·followed the law.13· · · · Q.· · So is the answer, no, you don't believe14· ·that it came through political clout?15· · · · A.· · I just don't --16· · · · MR. BURNS:· He has answered.17· ·BY THE WITNESS:18· · · · A.· · I believe they followed the law.19· ·BY MR. NOVACK:20· · · · Q.· · You believe they followed the law?21· · · · A.· · They followed the law and they followed22· ·the process to get this contract.23· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· I'm sorry.· Could I have that24· ·question and answer read back?

Page 116·1· · · · · · · · · (WHEREUPON, the record was read by·2· · · · · · · · · the reporter.)·3· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·4· · · · Q.· · Okay.· I understand that is your belief.·5· · · · A.· · Yes.·6· · · · Q.· · Do you believe -- have you ever believed·7· ·that they got the contract through political clout,·8· ·yes or no?·9· · · · MR. BURNS:· If you know.· You don't --10· ·BY THE WITNESS:11· · · · A.· · I don't -- I don't know.12· ·BY MR. NOVACK:13· · · · Q.· · One way or the other?14· · · · A.· · I don't know.15· · · · Q.· · Do you think there was anything improper16· ·about how The Park Grill got this contract?17· · · · A.· · I wouldn't know.18· · · · Q.· · Now I want you to look at Exhibit 348.19· ·Does he have 348?20· · · · MR. BURNS:· I don't think he has --21· · · · MR. NOVACK:· Does he have 348?22· · · · MR. BURNS:· I don't think he does.23· · · · MR. NOVACK:· The Fran Spielman article, do you24· ·remember?


1· · · · MR. BURNS:· 344, 347, 361.·2· · · · MR. FLEMING:· February 12th.·3· · · · MR. BURNS:· Let me just use yours for·4· ·convenience.·5· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·6· · · · Q.· · In the article of February 11th, which·7· ·was 363 -- could you give him that one, too,·8· ·because these two relate to each other.· Yes.·9· · · · · · · So let's just touch base on this one10· ·first.· This article, basic theme of that article11· ·is that The Park Grill got a sweetheart deal.· That12· ·is what the article says in substance on13· ·February -- that was February 11th.14· · · · · · · The next day you gave an interview15· ·responding to those allegations.· Do you recall16· ·giving that interview?17· · · · A.· · I don't recall.18· · · · Q.· · Please look again at Exhibit 348.· So19· ·this is an article that has your picture in it, has20· ·your quotes in it.· Do you recall it?21· · · · A.· · I don't recall it.22· · · · Q.· · But do you recall the event that the23· ·newspaper article comes out and says, There's a24· ·sweetheart deal, and you met the press to address

Page 118·1· ·those charges?· Do you recall doing that?·2· · · · A.· · I know I would have a press conference.·3· ·That would be an average press conference.· I had·4· ·three or four press conferences a week.· They asked·5· ·any questions they wanted.· The press would ask any·6· ·question.· It's an open press conference.·7· · · · Q.· · Do you recall that you were prepared for·8· ·this one, with talking points?·9· · · · A.· · I don't know if I had that.10· · · · Q.· · Let me show you Exhibit 342, and keep11· ·those two exhibits in front of you at the same12· ·time.· Let's look at Exhibit 342.13· · · · MR. BURNS:· He's going to give you another one14· ·now.15· ·BY MR. NOVACK:16· · · · Q.· · This is going to be a third exhibit that17· ·I'm going to ask you to look at.· And for the18· ·record, this document is a document that has the19· ·legend, Talking Points for Mayor Richard M. Daley,20· ·Park Grill Restaurant.21· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· It's also produced by the22· ·Chicago Park District.23· · · · MR. BURNS:· May I just ask --24· · · · MR. NOVACK:· You know, all of this coaching of

Page 119·1· ·the witness is going to be expressed to Judge·2· ·Jacobius.·3· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· Nobody was coaching.· I'm just·4· ·noting for the record that it was produced by the·5· ·Park District.·6· · · · MR. NOVACK:· There was no reason to note that·7· ·for the record, zero reason, and I object to the·8· ·coaching of this witness.· I object, object,·9· ·object, and object.10· · · · MR. BURNS:· May I ask you a question now11· ·separate from that issue?· What is the date on12· ·this?· For 342 is there a date?13· · · · MR. NOVACK:· I don't believe there's a date,14· ·so I don't know why you are asking me what the date15· ·is when you can see there is no date.16· · · · MR. BURNS:· Well, there may not be a date on17· ·it, but you, because you have been involved in the18· ·litigation, may understand when this was from.19· · · · MR. NOVACK:· Look, let me ask the questions.20· ·BY MR. NOVACK:21· · · · Q.· · Do you remember seeing this document22· ·before today?23· · · · A.· · I never saw it.24· · · · Q.· · Do you remember being prepared by anyone

Page 120·1· ·for questions about the subject of The Park Grill's·2· ·alleged sweetheart deal?·3· · · · A.· · I don't recall.·4· · · · Q.· · Keep that one there.·5· · · · A.· · I have that right there.·6· · · · Q.· · Now, let's go to the newspaper article·7· ·which is Exhibit 348, which is the February 12,·8· ·2001, article coming one day after the sweetheart·9· ·allegations.· I'm going to ask you to focus on the10· ·bottom of the first column of this.11· · · · MR. BURNS:· We are looking at 348.12· ·BY MR. NOVACK:13· · · · Q.· · There's a bold heading that says, "The14· ·investors came after."· Do you see that?15· · · · A.· · Yes.16· · · · Q.· · And do you remember that you said to17· ·this reporter in this conference, Remember -- or18· ·something to the effect, "Remember, the bids came19· ·in two weeks after September 11th and the20· ·negotiations went on right after that period.· I'm21· ·not going to say they got a good deal because it22· ·was a confusing time.· I'm going to say that time23· ·was a very difficult time in the economy."24· · · · · · · Do you see that language?· Without


1· ·looking at your lawyer, can you see that language?·2· · · · MR. BURNS:· Would you stop with the reference·3· ·"without looking at your lawyer."· You persist in·4· ·that.·5· · · · MR. NOVACK:· Only because he persists in·6· ·looking at you.·7· ·BY THE WITNESS:·8· · · · A.· · No, I'm looking here.· It says,·9· ·"Remember," and the following words from here to10· ·this section.11· ·BY MR. NOVACK:12· · · · Q.· · Were those things true at the time that13· ·you said them?14· · · · A.· · If I said them, I said them.15· · · · Q.· · And were they true?16· · · · A.· · 9/11, yes, did happen.· Yes, it did.17· · · · Q.· · And was that a difficult time in the18· ·economy because of that?19· · · · A.· · It was a difficult time in the country,20· ·not just in the economy.21· · · · Q.· · And is it true that you were not able to22· ·say that The Park Grill got a good deal?23· · · · A.· · It's a contract.24· · · · Q.· · Yeah, that you can't say that that was

Page 122·1· ·such a good deal for them?·2· · · · A.· · Good or bad, it is a contract.· I can't·3· ·argue whether it's good or bad.·4· · · · Q.· · You were saying you can't say it was a·5· ·good deal because of September 11th.· That doesn't·6· ·mean it was a good deal, does it?· Did·7· ·September 11th make this a particularly good deal?·8· · · · MR. BURNS:· I'm going to object to the form of·9· ·the question.· I can't understand that.10· ·BY THE WITNESS:11· · · · A.· · I can't answer.12· ·BY MR. NOVACK:13· · · · Q.· · If you made these statements, sir, you14· ·intended them at the time and they were true,15· ·correct?· Is that what you believed?16· · · · A.· · The statement speaks for itself.17· · · · Q.· · But did you believe it?· It may speak18· ·for itself, but did you believe it?19· · · · A.· · September 11th did happen and had an20· ·effect --21· · · · Q.· · I'm asking about the whole series of22· ·those words --23· · · · MR. BURNS:· Let's take a break.· Let him24· ·finish the --

Page 123·1· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·2· · · · Q.· · -- and the whole series of the words·3· ·that you just read, do you agree with them today?·4· · · · A.· · It says what it is.·5· · · · Q.· · And do you agree with that?·6· · · · A.· · It says what it is.·7· · · · Q.· · That is not -- I did not ask you if it·8· ·said what it is.· I asked you if you agree with·9· ·them?10· · · · A.· · What I said is what I said.· I cannot11· ·say what I mean today, whether it's good or bad.12· · · · Q.· · You don't even know what you meant by13· ·those words?14· · · · A.· · It says what it is.· That is what it15· ·says.16· · · · Q.· · And as of the time that you said it, did17· ·you believe it to be true?18· · · · A.· · It says -- what I said at that time,19· ·that is what I said.20· · · · Q.· · Did you believe it?· You don't want to21· ·tell the Court whether what you said you believed?22· · · · A.· · No.· What you repeated and what I said,23· ·and -- what date was this?24· · · · Q.· · February 12, 2005.

Page 124·1· · · · MR. BURNS:· '05.·2· ·BY THE WITNESS:·3· · · · A.· · If I said that, I said that.·4· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·5· · · · Q.· · I didn't ask that question though.· I·6· ·did not ask you if you said it, did you say it.·7· · · · · · · I asked if you said it, did you believe·8· ·it?·9· · · · A.· · What I said --10· · · · Q.· · Would you have said something you didn't11· ·believe?12· · · · MR. BURNS:· Let him finish.· Let him finish.13· ·You keep interrupting.14· ·BY THE WITNESS:15· · · · A.· · What I said is -- that is what I said16· ·right there.· The words I repeated, that is what I17· ·said.18· ·BY MR. NOVACK:19· · · · Q.· · Okay.· We know that now.· We have20· ·established that you said it.21· · · · · · · Now I want to ask you if when you said22· ·it, did you believe it to be true?23· · · · A.· · September 11th had a dramatic impact24· ·upon this country that --


1· · · · Q.· · That is only one part of that sentence.·2· ·I'm asking you --·3· · · · MR. BURNS:· Why don't you be more specific.·4· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·5· · · · Q.· · Was it your practice to say things to·6· ·the press that you didn't believe?·7· · · · MR. BURNS:· Objection.· Now we are just·8· ·arguing.· Let's not do that.·9· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· And you are getting insulting.10· ·There's no point to that.11· · · · MR. NOVACK:· I would ask you as an officer of12· ·the court to direct your witness to answer my13· ·question.· My question is not improper.14· · · · MR. BURNS:· I'm going to tell you, that was an15· ·improper question.· If you want to have the judge16· ·review it and decide, I'm all for it, but he's not17· ·going to answer it.18· · · · MR. NOVACK:· I'm going to ask him this19· ·question, and I'm asking you to direct him to20· ·answer it.21· ·BY MR. NOVACK:22· · · · Q.· · Did you believe those words at the time23· ·that you uttered them?24· · · · MR. BURNS:· You can answer.

Page 126·1· · · · MR. NOVACK:· How can that be an improper·2· ·question?·3· · · · MR. BURNS:· I'm talking about the question·4· ·before that we had.·5· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·6· · · · Q.· · Let's get an answer to this question.·7· · · · · · · Sir, did you believe those words at the·8· ·time that you said them?·9· · · · A.· · What I said at that time, that is what I10· ·said at that time.11· · · · Q.· · I know that is what you said, but did12· ·you believe it?13· · · · MR. BURNS:· You are asking for his mindset at14· ·the time.· He doesn't recall this, which he has15· ·told you many times.16· · · · MR. NOVACK:· He didn't say that.17· · · · MR. BURNS:· He has told you time and time18· ·again --19· · · · MR. NOVACK:· See, now you are testifying20· ·again.21· · · · MR. BURNS:· No.· I'm having a debate with you22· ·on this and why it's an improper question.· He said23· ·he doesn't recall.24· · · · MR. NOVACK:· The judge will have to decide

Page 127·1· ·this.·2· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·3· · · · Q.· · Do you refuse to answer the question of·4· ·whether you believed the words at the time that you·5· ·uttered them?·6· · · · MR. BURNS:· You know, he has answered it·7· ·endlessly.·8· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·9· · · · Q.· · Now go down -- don't give that away.10· ·I'm asking you questions.11· · · · A.· · I did not give that away.12· · · · MR. BURNS:· It's back in front of him now.13· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· You are raising your voice to14· ·Mayor Daley?· You are acting inappropriately.· This15· ·deposition has evolved from -- it's inquiring about16· ·irrelevant stuff, you are sarcastic, you are17· ·badgering him, and wasting the witness' time.18· · · · · · · You need to move to relevant stuff19· ·rather than arguing with the witness.20· · · · MR. NOVACK:· I disagree with everything you21· ·just said.22· ·BY MR. NOVACK:23· · · · Q.· · Please look at the second column of that24· ·page that you are looking at, toward the middle.

Page 128·1· ·This is a quote from you, "It was a very risky·2· ·venture."· Did you utter those words on·3· ·February 12, 2005?·4· · · · A.· · If I did, that is what it says.·5· · · · Q.· · Did you say those words?·6· · · · A.· · If it's printed -- not only printed but·7· ·if I said it, I said it.·8· · · · Q.· · Did you, as a practice, have people in·9· ·your press department -- when you were Mayor, in10· ·your press department or any other department, that11· ·would read articles quoting you to make sure they12· ·were accurate?13· · · · A.· · I don't know.· I don't recall.14· · · · Q.· · Did you believe that on February 12,15· ·2005, that when The Park Grill signed its16· ·concession agreement, it was a very risky venture?17· · · · A.· · I don't recall.18· · · · Q.· · When you said the words, It was a very19· ·risky venture, did you believe them to be true?20· · · · A.· · If that is what I said.21· · · · Q.· · Did you believe them to be true?22· · · · A.· · It's a risky venture, that is what I23· ·said.24· · · · Q.· · Do you know that at the time The Park


1· ·Grill was being considered for this restaurant,·2· ·that a number of other restauranteurs indicated·3· ·they were not interested in pursuing it because of·4· ·what happened on September 11th?·5· · · · A.· · I don't recall.·6· · · · Q.· · Did anybody ever report that to you?·7· · · · A.· · I don't recall.·8· · · · Q.· · Now, after this February 11th article·9· ·and after your quotes in the February 12th10· ·newspaper, do you recall that you ran into Laura11· ·Foxgrover while she was hosting the Flower and12· ·Garden Show at Navy Pier?13· · · · A.· · I don't recall.14· · · · Q.· · Do you recall being with Mr. Vince Gavin15· ·and running into Laura Foxgrover at any time?16· · · · A.· · No, I don't recall.· It could have17· ·happened.18· · · · Q.· · Do you recall going over to Laura and19· ·hugging her and saying, Everything is going to be20· ·okay?21· · · · A.· · About what?22· · · · Q.· · About what was said in this newspaper23· ·article?24· · · · A.· · No, I don't recall that.

Page 130·1· · · · Q.· · Do you deny that?·2· · · · MR. BURNS:· He said he doesn't recall that.·3· ·BY THE WITNESS:·4· · · · A.· · No, I don't recall that.·5· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·6· · · · Q.· · One way or the other?·7· · · · A.· · Hugging her?·8· · · · Q.· · Yeah.·9· · · · A.· · I don't recall.10· · · · Q.· · One way or the other?11· · · · A.· · I don't recall.12· · · · Q.· · One way or the other?13· · · · MR. BURNS: I'm not sure what "one way or the14· ·other" means.· He says he doesn't recall it.15· ·BY THE WITNESS:16· · · · A.· · Hugging her?17· ·BY MR. NOVACK:18· · · · Q.· · Did you ever give her at a hug at any19· ·time in your life?20· · · · MR. BURNS:· Objection as to the relevance.21· ·BY MR. NOVACK:22· · · · Q.· · I don't mean a romantic hug, sir.· You23· ·know that.· I'm talking about a friendship hug.24· · · · A.· · Oh.· I know Laura Foxgrover.· Very nice

Page 131·1· ·woman, very nice.·2· · · · Q.· · Are you aware of anything she has ever·3· ·done wrong?·4· · · · A.· · Pardon me?·5· · · · Q.· · Are you aware of anything that she has·6· ·ever done that was wrong?·7· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· Object to the form of the·8· ·question.·9· ·BY THE WITNESS:10· · · · A.· · I couldn't answer that question.11· ·BY MR. NOVACK:12· · · · Q.· · So you are not aware?13· · · · A.· · No.· She's a very fine person.14· · · · Q.· · Do you remember ever in your life giving15· ·her a friendship hug or a sympathy hug or anything16· ·like that?17· · · · A.· · It could have happened.18· · · · Q.· · Do you remember in response to this19· ·newspaper article giving her any kind of20· ·encouragement?21· · · · A.· · I don't remember that.22· · · · Q.· · Do you remember saying to Mr. Gavin,23· ·This is crazy what the Sun-Times is doing to Laura24· ·and Matt?

Page 132·1· · · · A.· · I don't recall that.·2· · · · Q.· · Did you know that Laura and Matt were a·3· ·couple at any time in your life?·4· · · · A.· · I don't know their personal lives.· They·5· ·are very good people.·6· · · · Q.· · Now, you still have Exhibit 149 in front·7· ·of you.· That is the letter from Mara Georges.· One·8· ·of the subjects that she raises in there is the·9· ·possible question about the validity of The Park10· ·Grill concession agreement.11· · · · · · · Let me ask you, when was the first12· ·time -- well, strike that.13· · · · · · · At any time up until and including14· ·today, have you ever heard that there's any issue15· ·about the validity of The Park Grill concession16· ·agreement without looking at your lawyers?17· · · · A.· · I don't recall when I -- no, I'm just18· ·looking this way.· I'm looking at these two here.19· · · · MR. BURNS:· Looking at Horan and O'Malley.20· ·BY THE WITNESS:21· · · · A.· · Looking at Horan and O'Malley.22· · · · · · · I don't recall when I found the23· ·knowledge out.24


1· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·2· · · · Q.· · Did you find it out at some point that·3· ·there was an issue?·4· · · · A.· · Some way.· I don't know when.·5· · · · Q.· · Was it before today?·6· · · · A.· · It was some way.· I don't know when.·7· · · · Q.· · How long prior to today was it?·8· · · · A.· · I don't know.·9· · · · Q.· · At some point did you hear that there10· ·was a lawsuit about this?11· · · · A.· · There could have been a lawsuit.12· · · · MR. BURNS:· Well, you are here because of a13· ·lawsuit.14· ·BY THE WITNESS:15· · · · A.· · I think so.· I think there's a lawsuit.16· ·BY MR. NOVACK:17· · · · Q.· · So can you pinpoint whether you first18· ·heard there was an issue about validity, as to19· ·whether that was before or after you learned that20· ·there was a lawsuit about it?21· · · · A.· · I don't recall.22· · · · Q.· · Did you hear about the fact that there23· ·was some issue as far back as 2005 or more24· ·recently?

Page 134·1· · · · A.· · I don't recall when I had knowledge of·2· ·it.·3· · · · Q.· · How did you hear about it?·4· · · · A.· · I don't recall.·5· · · · Q.· · Please look at Exhibit 150.· This is a·6· ·newspaper article from the Sun-Times, February 17,·7· ·2005.·8· · · · MR. BURNS:· 15?·9· · · · MR. NOVACK:· February 17, 2005.· I know you10· ·are going to write the date on it, so I'm giving it11· ·to you.12· · · · MR. BURNS: Thank you.· ·I appreciate that.13· · · · MR. NOVACK: It's 150.14· · · · MR. BURNS:· 150, 2/17/05.15· ·BY MR. NOVACK:16· · · · Q.· · Now, in this article you are reported as17· ·saying that all of this was the result of an18· ·embarrassing legal mistake.19· · · · · · · Do you recall giving an interview in20· ·which you said that this issue was -- resulted from21· ·an embarrassing legal mistake?22· · · · A.· · I don't know if it was an interview or a23· ·press conference.· I don't know if it was a press24· ·conference or an interview.· Usually, they are

Page 135·1· ·press conferences and lawyers -- I mean, the press·2· ·would ask questions.·3· · · · Q.· · Okay.· Regardless of whether it was a·4· ·press conference or an interview, do you recall·5· ·explaining this as an embarrassing legal mistake?·6· · · · A.· · Well, what I said is that it's a daily·7· ·blame.· I don't know what that is about, but what I·8· ·said is what I said.·9· · · · Q.· · Let's put another exhibit in front of10· ·the witness now, which is Exhibit 151, which is a11· ·Chicago Tribune article coming out of the same12· ·either interview or press release.13· · · · MR. BURNS:· Same date?14· · · · MR. NOVACK:· Yes.15· ·BY MR. NOVACK:16· · · · Q.· · If you look at the right-hand column,17· ·second paragraph, "Lawyers do make mistakes, Daley18· ·said"?19· · · · A.· · I said that, yes.20· · · · Q.· · "It was embarrassing to them, the21· ·corporation counsel, and the Park District." Do you22· ·recall saying that?23· · · · A.· · Yes.24· · · · Q.· · Was that your true belief at the time

Page 136·1· ·that you said that?·2· · · · A.· · Lawyers do make mistakes, yes.·3· · · · Q.· · And you believed this was such a·4· ·mistake?·5· · · · A.· · No.· I said, "Lawyers do make mistakes."·6· · · · Q.· · Were you saying that The Park Grill·7· ·restaurant involved a lawyer's mistake?·8· · · · A.· · Lawyers do make mistakes.·9· · · · Q.· · And then it says, "That is what it was."10· ·What is the "it" that you are saying it was?11· · · · A.· · It's both private lawyers,12· ·corporation -- I did not want to mention the13· ·lawyer's name, but private lawyers, corporation14· ·counsel, and Park District counsel.15· · · · Q.· · Was it their private lawyers, sir?16· · · · A.· · No.· That what I said by "it."17· · · · Q.· · It meant --18· · · · A.· · Yeah, it.· "It" it's a combination.19· · · · Q.· · That is what --20· · · · A.· · I did not want to include --21· · · · Q.· · So that's what it was.· So that sentence22· ·would be --23· · · · MR. BURNS: Let him finish.· No, let you24· ·finish.· Let the Mayor finis.


1· ·BY THE WITNESS:·2· · · · A.· · So what I didn't want to do was talk·3· ·about the private lawyers.· Each one of them are·4· ·represented legally by lawyers, both the private·5· ·sector and government agencies.·6· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·7· · · · Q.· · Uh-huh.·8· · · · A.· · And I didn't want --·9· · · · Q.· · So your point is, all of the lawyers10· ·made a mistake here?11· · · · A.· · Yeah, I didn't want to embarrass anyone.12· · · · Q.· · What was the mistake?13· · · · A.· · Whatever it was they are asking me here.14· · · · Q.· · Well, you were the one that said it was15· ·a mistake.· What did you understand you were16· ·referring to was a mistake?17· · · · MR. BURNS:· He said in the context of what18· ·they are asking him here.19· ·BY MR. NOVACK:20· · · · Q.· · Well, they are asking you, How did The21· ·Park Grill Restaurant get this concession?· You are22· ·saying it was a mistake by lawyers that they got23· ·the concession?24· · · · A.· · No, I didn't.· This is an interview.

Page 138·1· ·It's a question-and-answer parade that lasts an·2· ·hour, hour and a half it could be, and these are a·3· ·number of questions asked by the media, different·4· ·parts of the media, both in print and in TV and·5· ·radio.·6· · · · · · · And this is a combination of reviewing·7· ·questions and answers asked by the media.· That is·8· ·what it is.· It's not just one person, but it's a·9· ·combination of people.10· · · · Q.· · So was the mistake that the City was not11· ·a party to this agreement?· Is that what you meant12· ·by the mistake?13· · · · A.· · You have to take the contents of what14· ·they were asking, the question, and they are -- the15· ·reporter asking the question, and I don't know what16· ·it was.· This is only a synopsis.17· · · · Q.· · Did you think there was a mistake at the18· ·time?19· · · · A.· · What I said was -- here is what it says,20· ·Lawyers do make mistakes, and that is what it was.21· ·It all depends what the question they asked, what22· ·they are asking me, and I don't know what it says.23· ·I don't know what it responded to.24· · · · Q.· · As you sit here today -- forget about

Page 139·1· ·the article.·2· · · · A.· · No, I have to.·3· · · · Q.· · I'm asking a different question.·4· · · · · · · As you sit here today, do you believe·5· ·that legal mistakes by lawyers were made in·6· ·connection with The Park Grill concession·7· ·agreement?·8· · · · A.· · I could not answer that because I don't·9· ·know the whole process.· I couldn't answer that.10· · · · Q.· · Going further down in that first column11· ·on that page, you are saying, "The theory was to12· ·give the Park District money."13· · · · · · · Were you saying there that the reason14· ·the Park District was the party to the concession15· ·agreement so that the Park District could get the16· ·money from the contract?17· · · · A.· · Where is this?18· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· You just switched exhibits,19· ·Steve.20· · · · MR. NOVACK:· I'm looking at 150.21· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· He just had 151.22· ·BY MR. NOVACK:23· · · · Q.· · Let's get 150 back and where we are, I'm24· ·going to yellow highlight it.

Page 140·1· · · · A.· · I just reviewed the yellow highlighted·2· ·language.·3· · · · MR. BURNS:· Okay.· He's going to ask you a·4· ·question that you can answer.· He's read it.·5· ·BY THE WITNESS:·6· · · · A.· · Yes, I read it.·7· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·8· · · · Q.· · Are you saying there, sir, that the·9· ·reason that the Park District was the party to the10· ·concession agreement with The Park Grill, instead11· ·of the City, was because the Park District needed12· ·the money?13· · · · A.· · Well, the question -- I don't know what14· ·the question is in -- who interviewed -- who asked15· ·the question.· It has nothing to do with --16· · · · Q.· · Well, they are your words?17· · · · A.· · Yes, I said it.18· · · · Q.· · What did you mean by that?19· · · · MR. BURNS:· He's asking what the question is20· ·telling you.21· ·BY THE WITNESS:22· · · · A.· · I don't know what I'm responding to23· ·here.· Maybe it was just a statement.· The theory24· ·was to give the Park District money, he said.· And


1· ·I'll be very frank, they needed the money, the·2· ·Chicago Park District.· It was a flaw they found·3· ·out later on, that was the reason they needed the·4· ·revenue.· That is what it says.·5· · · · Q.· · Let's go one at a time.· In late 2001,·6· ·when this concession agreement was signed, did the·7· ·Park District need money?·8· · · · A.· · The Park District always needed money,·9· ·not just that time but at all times.10· · · · Q.· · And is that the reason, sir, why the11· ·Park District signed the contract with The Park12· ·Grill, so that it would get the revenues under that13· ·contract?14· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· Objection, foundation.15· ·BY THE WITNESS:16· · · · A.· · I couldn't answer that.17· ·BY MR. NOVACK:18· · · · Q.· · Were these words that you just read,19· ·yellow highlighted words, "The theory was to give20· ·the Park District money.· I'll be very frank, they21· ·needed money.· It was a flaw they found out later22· ·on, but that was the reason that they needed the23· ·revenue," were those words -- did you believe those24· ·words at the time that you uttered them?

Page 142·1· · · · A.· · These were words that I said, but I·2· ·don't know what question was asked, whether there·3· ·was a question or not.· I don't know.· I just don't·4· ·know.· It doesn't say that.·5· · · · Q.· · When you uttered those words, did you·6· ·believe them?·7· · · · A.· · "The theory was to give the Park·8· ·District money."· Yes, I was very frank.· They·9· ·needed the money.10· · · · Q.· · Yes?11· · · · A.· · They needed the money.12· · · · Q.· · So it was true?· What you said was true13· ·at the time?14· · · · A.· · That statement speaks for itself.15· · · · Q.· · I get that it speaks for itself.· Is it16· ·also true?17· · · · A.· · The Park District always needed money,18· ·yes.19· · · · Q.· · And is that the reason for the Park20· ·District -- strike that.· Asked and answered.21· · · · MR. BURNS:· True.· Steve, I don't know if you22· ·are having the same, but I noticed you stand.· I23· ·keep asking for a break because I have the same24· ·issue with my back, if that is why you were

Page 143·1· ·standing.·2· · · · MR. NOVACK:· I just happened to get a cramp in·3· ·my leg.·4· · · · MR. BURNS:· Well, I have the other, so I keep·5· ·stretching about every 45 minutes to an hour.· If·6· ·you don't mind, just a short break for that.·7· · · · MR. NOVACK:· Okay.·8· · · · · · · · · (WHEREUPON, a recess was had.)·9· ·BY MR. NOVACK:10· · · · Q.· · So returning to Exhibit 150, this is the11· ·February 17th Sun-Times newspaper article.· If you12· ·look in the yellow area there, I highlighted some13· ·more language a little bit lower, starting with,14· ·"An ordinance."· Do you see where it says, "An15· ·ordinance"?16· · · · · · · It's in the paragraph that starts, "They17· ·just made a mistake, that's all," which we already18· ·talked about?19· · · · A.· · Yeah.20· · · · Q.· · The next sentence says, "An ordinance21· ·was passed that they lost.· They did not see them22· ·unfortunately.· It's embarrassing to them, yes, it23· ·is, the Corporation Counsel and Park District24· ·counsel.· Lawyers do make mistakes."

Page 144·1· · · · · · · So the mistake that you were talking·2· ·about there was not seeing an ordinance that gave·3· ·the City air rights; is that what you are saying,·4· ·sir?·5· · · · A.· · Again, I get back to about what question·6· ·they were asking.· Again, I don't know if this is a·7· ·composite of what I said, dealing with a question.·8· ·Was it a composite?· Was it the full answer?·9· · · · · · · I don't know, but they are reporting10· ·this.· I can't definitely say that I said this, and11· ·I don't know if it's in the contents of everything12· ·that I said in regards to this issue.13· · · · Q.· · Who are you saying lost an ordinance?14· ·You said, "An ordinance was passed that they lost."15· ·Who lost an ordinance?16· · · · A.· · I don't have no idea.· I don't know what17· ·the question was.18· · · · Q.· · But there you are saying that the City19· ·was given certain rights, and then if you go above20· ·the yellow, above the yellow there's a paragraph21· ·that starts, "The Sun-Times reported earlier this22· ·week."· Do you see that one?23· · · · MR. BURNS:· Where is that at?· I'm sorry.24


1· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·2· · · · Q.· · The Sun-Times reported earlier this week·3· ·that City Hall sent the letter.· Do you see that?·4· · · · MR. BURNS: The Sun-Times reported --·5· ·BY THE WITNESS:·6· · · · A.· · The Sun-Times reported --·7· · · · MR. BURNS: Yeah, we see that.·8· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·9· · · · Q.· · So that says, "The Sun-Times reported10· ·earlier this week that City Hall has sent a letter11· ·to Park Grill partners, Matt O'Malley and Jim12· ·Horan, warning them that the 20-year concession13· ·agreement 'does not authorize your occupation of14· ·The Park Grill facilities' because the City owns15· ·the land beneath the restaurant, and City Hall was16· ·not a party to the deal."17· · · · · · · Doesn't that indicate to you that the18· ·question being asked was, If City Hall was -- if19· ·the City was supposed to be a party, why weren't20· ·they?· And your answer was, The lawyers made a21· ·mistake?22· · · · MR. BURNS:· Objection to the form of the23· ·question.· If you can answer.24

Page 146·1· ·BY THE WITNESS:·2· · · · A.· · I don't -- was I responding to that·3· ·question?· I really don't know.· There could have·4· ·been other questions that came before that by other·5· ·reporters.· I don't know, and I don't know if·6· ·there's a contents of her asking the same number of·7· ·questions in a row or was it somebody else.·8· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·9· · · · Q.· · But isn't the mistake that you are10· ·talking about that the City should have signed but11· ·didn't?· Isn't that what you are saying was the12· ·mistake, that all of the lawyers mutual mistake13· ·made --14· · · · A.· · I can't recall what it was. I can't15· ·recall that.· I can only read this.16· · · · · · · But, again, the contents has to be in17· ·regards to what question, and there's 15,18· ·20 reporters.· So that is the thing that I'm trying19· ·to figure out, whether it was a combination of20· ·questions or a series of questions or later on a21· ·question, to write the article.22· · · · Q.· · Well, wouldn't a cure to the mistake23· ·that you are talking about simply have been for the24· ·City to sign it?

Page 147·1· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· Objection to the form of the·2· ·question.·3· · · · MR. BURNS:· Objection to the form of the·4· ·question.·5· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· To the legal conclusion.·6· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·7· · · · Q.· · Well, let me ask it this way:· At the·8· ·time that The Park Grill agreement was being·9· ·signed, you had been told that you needed to sign10· ·it because of the legalities?· There's a reason11· ·legally that the City has to be a party.· You would12· ·have signed it, wouldn't you have?13· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· Objection, calls for14· ·speculation.15· ·BY THE WITNESS:16· · · · A.· · I don't recall anything like that.17· ·BY MR. NOVACK:18· · · · Q.· · I know that.· I'm asking you.19· · · · A.· · Theoretical question?20· · · · Q.· · Yeah, it's a hypothetical question.21· · · · · · · If you had been told that the Park22· ·District has negotiated this deal but, oops, it23· ·looks like the City has got to sign.· The Park24· ·District has signed, the Park Grill parties have

Page 148·1· ·signed, we need your signature --·2· · · · A.· · On what?·3· · · · Q.· · -- you would have signed it, wouldn't·4· ·you have?·5· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· Object to the form of the·6· ·question.·7· ·BY THE WITNESS:·8· · · · A.· · I don't know that I can answer that·9· ·question.· I don't know what it's about.10· ·BY MR. NOVACK:11· · · · Q.· · It was about the restaurant.· You know12· ·that.13· · · · MR. BURNS:· No, he doesn't.14· ·BY THE WITNESS:15· · · · A.· · You asked me a hypothetical.· You did16· ·not ask me about the restaurant.· You asked me a17· ·hypothetical.18· ·BY MR. NOVACK:19· · · · Q.· · Now, the donors we have already talked20· ·about, they were these private businesspeople that21· ·contributed money to the development of the park?22· · · · A.· · Both private business and professionals,23· ·yes.24· · · · Q.· · Okay.· And they were pretty important to


1· ·the ultimate development?·2· · · · A.· · It was a public-private partnership,·3· ·yes.·4· · · · Q.· · And the donors wanted to make sure,·5· ·didn't they, that the facilities that would be·6· ·named after them would be actually done right, so·7· ·that they would be proud of the facility on which·8· ·their name went?·9· · · · A.· · They would ask for the quality of the10· ·Millennium Park.· The quality was the best.11· · · · Q.· · Right.· And, in fact, have we shown them12· ·Exhibit 360 yet?· Yes, we did.· You should have13· ·that.· That is the one with the dentist chair, just14· ·to get you on the right one.· This is the Crain's15· ·article, one of the first ones.16· · · · A.· · There is Exhibit 360.17· · · · Q.· · Okay.· ·You remember that Cindy18· ·Pritzker, one of the Pritzkers after whom the19· ·Pritzker Pavilion was named -- look at the bottom20· ·paragraph of the first page --21· · · · A.· · Yes.22· · · · Q.· · Top paragraph, top of the second.23· · · · · · · Do you remember that she said, If you24· ·use the first design of the pavilion, I'm not going

Page 150·1· ·to give 15 million?· Do you remember that, and you·2· ·had to go to a different design?·3· · · · A.· · I don't recall.·4· · · · Q.· · Do you remember saying at the time that·5· ·that is right? That you laughed at the memory and·6· ·said, That's right?·7· · · · A.· · I don't recall.·8· · · · Q.· · Do you remember one of the Pritzkers not·9· ·agreeing with the original design for the pavilion?10· · · · A.· · I don't recall.11· · · · Q.· · Do you recall that the donors asked that12· ·the City be sure that it was involved -- not the13· ·Park District but the City be involved in those14· ·facilities that were going to be named after the15· ·donors, do you recall that?16· · · · A.· · No, I don't recall that.17· · · · Q.· · Did you ever hear that there was an18· ·easement on part of Millennium Park granted from19· ·the -- by the Park District in favor of the City?20· · · · A.· · I don't recall.21· · · · Q.· · As you sit here today, do you know that22· ·there is such an easement?23· · · · A.· · I don't recall at all.24· · · · Q.· · I did not ask you to recall back.· I'm

Page 151·1· ·saying, as you sit here today, do you know that·2· ·there's an easement?·3· · · · A.· · I don't know.·4· · · · Q.· · I'll let you get Exhibit 363 back.· That·5· ·is a February 11th article.· That is the one that·6· ·alleges clout, alleges sweetheart deal, and also·7· ·complains that The Park Grill was not paying real·8· ·estate taxes.·9· · · · · · · Now, do you remember that there was an10· ·assertion that The Park Grill should have been11· ·paying real estate taxes but didn't?12· · · · A.· · I don't recall.13· · · · Q.· · Do you recall an issue about real estate14· ·taxes coming up?15· · · · A.· · I don't recall.16· · · · Q.· · Do you recall that the County Assessor17· ·assessed The Park Grill with a real estate tax very18· ·shortly after that article appeared?19· · · · A.· · I don't recall.20· · · · Q.· · Who is Myer Blank?21· · · · A.· · He worked for -- in the City.22· · · · Q.· · He was in the Office of the Mayor,23· ·wasn't he?24· · · · A.· · He could have been.· I don't know if he

Page 152·1· ·was assigned to it or worked for the office itself,·2· ·the Mayor's Office.·3· · · · Q.· · Do you know that he was having·4· ·conversations and communications with the·5· ·Assessor's Office, putting pressure on the assessor·6· ·to issue a real estate tax bill?·7· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· Objection to the form.·8· ·BY THE WITNESS:·9· · · · A.· · I wouldn't recall.10· ·BY MR. NOVACK:11· · · · Q.· · Let me show you Exhibit 340.· 340 is an12· ·e-mail chain, the top one of which is from Michael13· ·Stone to Pam Hughes dated February 24, 2005.14· · · · · · · And if you look at that page and look to15· ·the third of the e-mail messages, it says,16· ·"Original Message," and it's February 18, 2005, at17· ·12:28 p.m.18· · · · · · · Can you get yourself at that point?19· · · · MR. BURNS:· This one here.· You can look at20· ·it.21· ·BY THE WITNESS:22· · · · A.· · Yes.23· ·BY MR. NOVACK:24· · · · Q.· · And I'm going to represent to you that


1· ·this is an internal e-mail in the Assessor's·2· ·Office.· Michael Stone and Pam Hughes.· I'm sorry.·3· ·State's Attorney's office, was it?·4· · · · MR. FLEMING:· State's Attorney's Office.·5· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·6· · · · Q.· · State's Attorney's Office.· And it's·7· ·taking about Myer Blank.· Read those three·8· ·paragraphs to yourself.· They are pretty short.·9· · · · MR. BURNS: He's read it.10· ·BY MR. NOVACK:11· · · · Q.· · You have read it?12· · · · A.· · Yes.13· · · · Q.· · Please look at the last sentence of the14· ·middle paragraph that starts, "Myer thinks."· Do15· ·you see that sentence?16· · · · MR. BURNS:· "Myer thinks," it starts right up17· ·there.18· ·BY THE WITNESS:19· · · · A.· · Oh, "Myer thinks."20· ·BY MR. NOVACK:21· · · · Q.· · And you can see in there that Myer is22· ·referring back to Myer Blank, correct?23· · · · A.· · I guess so.24· · · · Q.· · Okay.· It says, Myer thinks that

Page 154·1· ·regardless of all of these issues that the City·2· ·would rather have -- that the City would rather·3· ·have a tax bill that is cancelled than for the·4· ·restaurant to go another year without a bill (I·5· ·kind of see his point).· Do you see that?·6· · · · A.· · Yes.·7· · · · Q.· · And is it true that at that time the·8· ·City wanted a tax bill to be issued even if it had·9· ·to be been recalled?10· · · · A.· · I don't recall it.11· · · · Q.· · Did you ever have any involvement12· ·whatsoever in the real estate tax bill issue?13· · · · A.· · No, I don't recall it.14· · · · Q.· · Did you ever talk to the assessor about15· ·that?16· · · · A.· · No.17· · · · Q.· · Anybody in the assessor's office?18· · · · A.· · I don't recall.19· · · · Q.· · Anybody in the State's Attorney's20· ·Office?21· · · · A.· · I don't recall that.22· · · · Q.· · Did the City at that time, the city that23· ·you were the Mayor of, have a position on whether a24· ·real estate tax credit should be issued?

Page 155·1· · · · A.· · I don't recall.·2· · · · Q.· · Is it possible that others in your·3· ·office could have taken that position and you just·4· ·simply did not know about it?·5· · · · MR. BURNS:· Just don't speculate.· It calls·6· ·for speculation.· Do you know?·7· ·BY THE WITNESS:·8· · · · A.· · I don't recall.·9· ·BY MR. NOVACK:10· · · · Q.· · Did you ever authorize the filing of a11· ·lawsuit against The Park Grill when you were Mayor?12· · · · A.· · I don't recall.13· · · · Q.· · One way or the other?14· · · · A.· · I don't recall.15· · · · Q.· · If you had stayed in office another16· ·term, would you have filed this suit against The17· ·Park Grill?18· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· Objection, calls for19· ·speculation.20· · · · MR. BURNS:· Objection.· Don't speculate.21· ·BY MR. NOVACK:22· · · · Q.· · Are you aware of anything that they did23· ·that would merit a lawsuit by the City?24· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· Objection, foundation.

Page 156·1· ·BY MR. NOVACK:·2· · · · Q.· · What is the answer?·3· · · · A.· · I don't recall.·4· · · · Q.· · You are not aware?·5· · · · A.· · I don't recall.·6· · · · Q.· · Well, I'm not asking again for past.·7· · · · · · · Today are you aware of anything that·8· ·they did, Park Grill did, that would merit a·9· ·lawsuit against them by the City?10· · · · A.· · I don't recall anything.11· · · · MR. NOVACK: Okay.· Let us take a break this12· ·time.13· · · · MR. BURNS:· Sure.· Go right ahead.14· · · · MR. NOVACK:· And maybe we'll be done.15· · · · · · · · · (WHEREUPON, a recess was had.)16· · · · MR. NOVACK:· So before I finish and adjourn,17· ·I'm going to say that we are going to reserve our18· ·rights -- I'm saying this to everybody in the room.19· ·We are reserving our rights to ask Judge Jacobius20· ·to order this deposition to be retaken for three21· ·purposes:· One, to order him to answer questions he22· ·wouldn't answer; two, to answer without being23· ·coached by the lawyers, plural, in this room; and24· ·three, to be on videotape so the judge can watch


1· ·the witness look at the lawyer before every answer.·2· · · · MR. BURNS:· You know, I tell you what --·3· · · · MR. NOVACK:· You can make your statements.· Go·4· ·ahead.·5· · · · MR. BURNS:· He made that -- a videotape at the·6· ·end, so that the judge can see that the witness·7· ·looked to his lawyer each time he answered.· You·8· ·know, you can make any offensive comment that you·9· ·choose to.· There's no basis for it.· Why you10· ·desire to, that is beyond me.11· · · · · · · I will oppose any such action before12· ·Judge Jacobius, and it's outrageous what you just13· ·said.· But that is the way that you practice law,14· ·God bless you.15· · · · · · · Who else has questions?16· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· I do.· Just for the record,17· ·what you said is incorrect.· I don't believe that18· ·he was coached.· He certainly was not looking at19· ·his attorney.· He was looking around the room,20· ·looking at exhibits.21· · · · · · · If you wanted a videotaped deposition,22· ·you should have brought it up before you wasted23· ·Mayor Daley's time here today.24· · · · · · · So that is my position, but I have just

Page 158·1· ·a couple questions.·2· · · · · · · · · EXAMINATION·3· ·BY MR. McERLEAN:·4· · · · Q.· · Your Honor -- Mayor Daley, I have a·5· ·couple questions for you, if you don't mind.·6· · · · · · · I was confused in your testimony, in·7· ·that you said that The Park Grill parties in·8· ·obtaining their concession agreement were required·9· ·to follow the law, correct?10· · · · A.· · Correct.11· · · · Q.· · Do you know whether they did follow the12· ·law?13· · · · A.· · I really don't know.14· · · · Q.· · Did you expect them to follow the law?15· · · · A.· · I expected their lawyers, lawyers who16· ·represent the Park District and any other entity to17· ·follow the law.18· · · · Q.· · As Mayor, you did not have the power to19· ·authorize the Park District to enter into a 30-year20· ·agreement for the use of land that the City owned21· ·or controlled without City Council approval, did22· ·you?23· · · · A.· · I don't think so.24· · · · Q.· · In fact, no City official had the power

Page 159·1· ·to authorize the Chicago district -- the Chicago·2· ·Park District to enter into any 30-year contract·3· ·for use of land that the City controlled without·4· ·City Council approval, could they?·5· · · · MR. NOVACK:· Objection, foundation.· This is a·6· ·witness that said he doesn't know.· These are legal·7· ·questions he could not answer for me and now he's·8· ·all of a sudden answering for you.·9· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· Just make your objection and10· ·we'll move on.11· ·BY MR. McERLEAN:12· · · · Q.· · In your knowledge, your Honor, did any13· ·City officials besides you -- in addition to you14· ·have any power to authorize the Park District to15· ·enter into a 30-year concession agreement for the16· ·use of land that the City owned or controlled17· ·without City Council approval?18· · · · A.· · I don't think so.19· · · · MR. NOVACK:· Same objection.20· ·BY MR. McERLEAN:21· · · · Q.· · Did anyone, in your view, besides the22· ·City Council, have the authority to grant The Park23· ·Grill defendants a license to operate the24· ·restaurant in Millennium Park on land that it

Page 160·1· ·controlled?·2· · · · MR. NOVACK:· Objection, calls for a legal·3· ·conclusion --·4· ·BY THE WITNESS:·5· · · · A.· · I don't know.·6· · · · MR. NOVACK:· -- that the witness says he·7· ·couldn't know.·8· ·BY MR. McERLEAN:·9· · · · Q.· · As Mayor did you have the authority to10· ·modify or amend written contracts between the City11· ·and other governmental agencies transferring12· ·property interests?13· · · · MR. NOVACK:· Objection, foundation, calls for14· ·a legal conclusion.15· ·BY THE WITNESS:16· · · · A.· · I don't understand the question.17· ·BY MR. NOVACK:18· · · · Q.· · Okay.· You mentioned that sometimes19· ·there's intergovernmental agreements where20· ·properties transfer from one governmental agency to21· ·another, and in the case where they transfer22· ·property interests by written agreement, did you,23· ·as Mayor, have authority to modify those written24· ·agreements, or would that require City Council


1· ·approval?·2· · · · MR. NOVACK:· Objection, calls for a legal·3· ·conclusion, lack of foundation, and compound.·4· ·BY THE WITNESS:·5· · · · A.· · That would be up to what is specific in·6· ·regards to the law.·7· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· I have no other questions.·8· · · · MR. BURNS:· Anyone else?· We'll reserve.·9· · · · · · · · · FURTHER EXAMINATION10· ·BY MR. NOVACK:11· · · · Q.· · Mr. Mayor, do you -- you just answered a12· ·question for Mr. McErlean saying that you don't13· ·know if The Park Grill parties followed the law.14· · · · · · · Do you remember that no more than an15· ·hour or an hour and a half ago, you said that they16· ·did follow the law?17· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· Objection, argumentative.18· · · · MR. BURNS:· Objection, argumentative.19· ·Argumentative.· So what is the question?20· ·BY MR. NOVACK:21· · · · Q.· · That was my question.· Answer it.22· · · · MR. BURNS:· It's an argumentative question.23· ·Do you have one that's not?24· · · · MR. NOVACK:· Well, you can object to it all

Page 162·1· ·you want.· He has to answer it unless it's·2· ·privileged.·3· · · · MR. BURNS:· I do object to it.·4· ·BY THE WITNESS:·5· · · · A.· · I said that anyone that signs a contract·6· ·would have to follow what the law is.· It's up to·7· ·their lawyers to identify what the law is, their·8· ·lawyers.·9· ·BY MR. NOVACK:10· · · · Q.· · You are willing to stand by what your11· ·testimony under oath was today?12· · · · A.· · What their lawyers -- I don't know their13· ·lawyers.14· · · · Q.· · Are you willing to stand by the15· ·testimony under oath that you gave today?16· · · · MR. McERLEAN:· Objection to the form of the17· ·question.18· · · · MR. BURNS:· Don't even answer this.· Now we19· ·have become purely harassing and argumentative, and20· ·I guess we'll take that to the judge as well.21· ·Thank you all.22· · · · MR. NOVACK:· I'm adjourning with all of the23· ·reservations that I made.24· · · · MR. BURNS:· There are no reservations.· The

Page 163·1· ·deposition is complete.· We reserve signature.·2· ·Have a pleasant day.·3· · · · · · · · · FURTHER DEPONENT SAITH NOT.·4·5·6·7·8·9101112131415161718192021222324

Page 164·1· ·STATE OF ILLINOIS )·2· · · · · · · · · · ·) SS:·3· ·COUNTY OF C O O K )·4· · · · · · · I, KRISTIN C. BRAJKOVICH, a Certified·5· ·Shorthand Reporter of said state, do hereby·6· ·certify:·7· · · · · · · That previous to the commencement of the·8· ·examination of the witness, the witness was duly·9· ·sworn to testify the whole truth concerning the10· ·matters herein;11· · · · · · · That the foregoing deposition transcript12· ·was reported stenographically by me,13· ·was thereafter reduced to typewriting under my14· ·personal direction and constitutes a true record15· ·of the testimony given and the proceedings had;16· · · · · · · That the said deposition was taken17· ·before me at the time and place specified;18· · · · · · · That I am not a relative or employee19· ·or attorney or counsel, nor a relative or20· ·employee of such attorney or counsel for any of21· ·the parties hereto, nor interested directly or22· ·indirectly in the outcome of this action.23· · · · · · · IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I do hereunto set my24· ·hand and affix my seal of office at Chicago,


1· ·Illinois, this 11th day of September, 2013.·2·3·4·5·6·7· · · · · · · · · C.S.R. Certificate No. 84-3810.·8·9101112131415161718192021222324

Page 166·1· · · · · · · · · · · ·I N D E X·2· ·WITNESS· · · · · · · · · · · · EXAMINATION·3· ·RICHARD M. DALEY, J.D.·4· · · · ·By Mr. Novack· · · · · · · · 5, 161·5· · · · ·By Mr. McErlean· · · · · · 158·6·7·8· · · · · · · · · · E X H I B I T S·9· ·NUMBER· · · · · · · · · · · ·First Referred to10· ·No. 340· · · · · · · · · · · · · 15211· ·No. 342· · · · · · · · · · · · · 11812· ·No. 343· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·7613· ·No. 344· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·9214· ·No. 345· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·9315· ·No. 346· · · · · · · · · · · · · 10116· ·No. 347· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·8717· ·No. 348· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·5618· ·No. 352· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·2319· ·No. 355· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·3620· ·No. 360· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·2421· ·No. 361· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·8822· ·No. 363· · · · · · · · · · · · · 1102324

Page 167·1· · · · · · · DEPOSITION ERRATA SHEET·2·3· ·Our Assignment No. 459022·4· ·Case Caption:· City of Chicago v. Chicago Park·5· · · · · · · · · District, et al.·6·7· · · · ·DECLARATION UNDER PENALTY OF PERJURY·8·9· · · · · · · I declare under penalty of perjury that10· ·I have read the entire transcript of my deposition11· ·taken in the captioned matter or the same has been12· ·read to me, and the same is true and accurate, save13· ·and except for changes· and/or corrections, if any,14· ·as indicated by me on the DEPOSITION ERRATA SHEET15· ·hereof, with the understanding that I offer these16· ·changes as if still under oath.1718· · · · ·Signed on the __________ day of19· ·_______________, 20______.20212223· ·___________________________________24· · · · ·RICHARD M. DALEY, J.D.

Page 168·1· · · · · · · · · DEPOSITION ERRATA SHEET·2·3· ·Page No. ______Line No.______Change To:____________·4· ·Reason for Change:_________________________________·5· ·Page No. ______Line No.______Change To:____________·6· ·Reason for Change:_________________________________·7· ·Page No. ______Line No.______Change To:____________·8· ·Reason for Change:_________________________________·9· ·Page No. ______Line No.______Change To:____________10· ·Reason for Change:_________________________________11· ·Page No. ______Line No.______Change To:____________12· ·Reason for Change:_________________________________13· ·Page No. ______Line No.______Change To:____________14· ·Reason for Change:_________________________________15· ·Page No. ______Line No.______Change To:____________16· ·Reason for Change:_________________________________17· ·Page No. ______Line No.______Change To:____________18· ·Reason for Change:_________________________________19· ·Page No. ______Line No.______Change To:____________20· ·Reason for Change:_________________________________21· ·Page No. ______Line No.______Change To:____________22· ·Reason for Change:_________________________________23· ·SIGNATURE:________________________DATE:_________24· · · · · · · RICHARD M. DALEY, J.D.


1· · · · · · · DEPOSITION ERRATA SHEET·2·3· ·Page No. ______Line No.______Change To:____________·4· ·Reason for Change:_________________________________·5· ·Page No. ______Line No.______Change To:____________·6· ·Reason for Change:_________________________________·7· ·Page No. ______Line No.______Change To:____________·8· ·Reason for Change:_________________________________·9· ·Page No. ______Line No.______Change To:____________10· ·Reason for Change:_________________________________11· ·Page No. ______Line No.______Change To:____________12· ·Reason for Change:_________________________________13· ·Page No. ______Line No.______Change To:____________14· ·Reason for Change:_________________________________15· ·Page No. ______Line No.______Change To:____________16· ·Reason for Change:_________________________________17· ·Page No. ______Line No.______Change To:____________18· ·Reason for Change:_________________________________19· ·Page No. ______Line No.______Change To:____________20· ·Reason for Change:_________________________________21· ·Page No. ______Line No.______Change To:____________22· ·Reason for Change:_________________________________23· ·SIGNATURE:________________________DATE:_________24· · · · · · · RICHARD M. DALEY, J.D.


daley deposition

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