commentson - american petroleum institute€¦ · web viewsuggest change per recommendation...

API Ballot Comments and Resolution

Ballot: 141-07-650-554 Appendix B, API 650

Proposal: Ballot ID: 1231

Date: May 23, 2023

1 2 3 4 5 6

Voter Name(Vote)

Clause No./Subclause No./Annex(e.g. 3.1)

Type of Comment

Comment (justification for change) by the Voting Member Proposed change by the Voting Member

Comment Resolution

Jerry Boldra

(Affirmative)

B.1.1, First sentence

Editorial There are aluminum and stainless steel tanks now . . . Delete the word "steel" from the first sentence.

Jerry Boldra

(Affirmative)

B.1.2 Editorial This paragraph lists five foundation types. However, Section B.4, second sentence says seven.

Consider resolving this difference. If the reader is familiar with tank foundations, this is not a big discrepancy. However, to the novice it is confusing . . . and API 650 is used world wide. We should be consistent and maintain creditability.

Jerry Boldra

(Affirmative)

B.2.3, sub-paragraph a

Editorial Second line is poorly written. ". . .and part may be on till or another construction or where . . ."

and part may be on FILL or another construction TYPE or where . . .

Jerry Boldra

(Affirmative)

B.2.5 Editorial Paragraph B.2.5 is similar to and related to Paragraph B.3.2

Consider combining these two paragraphs or putting them one after the other.

Jerry Boldra

(Affirmative)

Entire Appendix B

Editorial There are many paragraphs without titles or sub-titles. It would be help to everyone (experienced tank engineers and novice readers) to have more titles or sub-titles through out Appendix B. Titles or Sub-titles would also force us to better organize this Appendix.

Jerry Boldra

(Affirmative)

B.2.6 Editorial The first sentence is poorly written. "The chemistry of native soil and fill material shall consider in the foundation design."

The chemistry of THE native soil and fill material SHOULD BE CONSIDERED in t he foundation design.

Jerry Boldra

(Affirmative)

B.2.10 Editorial First sentence. "If a leak occurs in a tank bottom, the leaking material can also influence corrosion on the external side.

More commonly used terms for the "external side" are SOIL SIDE or UNDER SIDE. Consider changing "external side".

Jerry Boldra B.3.1, Editorial In my experience, "150 mm (6 inches) above the Recommend changing this to

page 1 of 17API electronic balloting template/version April 2003




Date: May 23, 2023

1 2 3 4 5 6

Voter Name(Vote)


Type of Comment


Comment Resolution

(Affirmative) Second paragraph

surrounding ground" is not sufficient, especially long term. There are too many existing tanks where soil from the dike yard washes down during rain and covers the bottom extension, shell-to-bottom weld and even the lowest part of Course 1.

300 mm (12 inches). I can't find my new edition of API 651 . . . but I think there is a statement that suggests 12 inches in API 651.

Jerry Boldra

(Affirmative)

B.2.7 Editorial Paragraph B.2.7 is similar to and overlaps with Paragraph B.3.2.f.

Combine these two paragraphs or list them sequentially.

Jerry Boldra

(Affirmative)

B.3.1 last paragraph

Editorial This paragraph is one sentence. "Consideration shall be given in the design of a new tank foundation in the event . . ." It is poorly written and should not contain "shall".

1. Need to add something about "consideration" here. "Consideration" to do what ???

2. Change "shall" to "should". This is an appendix and supplemental. We can't tell the reader what or how . . . we can only offer ideas for consideration.

Jerry Boldra

(Affirmative)

B.3.2.f Editorial Sub-paragraph f, third sentence: ". . . may be determined in accordance with ASTM (157, or equivalent."

1. There is an open parenthesis after ASTM. Delete this open parenthesis. 2. Is ASTM 157 correct, or does this ASTM have a four digit designation?

Jerry Boldra

(Affirmative)

B.3.2.g Editorial The material in this paragraph would be presented in a manner that is easier to grasp and understand if it were placed in a table . . . similar to Paragraph B.2.7.

Make a table out of this paragraph.

Jerry Boldra

(Affirmative)

B.3.3 Technical This paragraph says, "During construction, the movement of equipment and materials across the grade will damage the graded surface . . ." After the pad has been completed by the foundation contractor, the tank contractor should be forbidden to bring material, equipment and workers onto the pad. The bottom plates should be laid on the pad from outside the pad. Equipment, materials and men should be allow only on the new bottom plates, not on the finished pad.

Change to: After the tank foundation pad has been completed by the foundation contractor, equipment and men are not allowed to be on the tank pad unless bottom plates have been laid down first. This prevents contamination of the tank pad with clay and other foreign materials from equipment tires, tracks and men's





Date: May 23, 2023

1 2 3 4 5 6

Voter Name(Vote)


Type of Comment


Comment Resolution

boots/shoes.

Jerry Boldra

(Affirmative)

B.3.4 and B.3.5 and B.3.6

Editorial These three paragraphs are in reverse chronological order.

Re-order these paragraphs in the following chronological order: B.3.6, B.3.5 and B.3.4.

Jerry Boldra

(Affirmative)

B.3.7 Editorial The first sentence is a little foggy. The clarity of the first sentence would be improved by adding "(cone up)" at the very end of the sentence.

Jerry Boldra

(Affirmative)

B.3.7 Technical I prefer "cone down" tank foundations/bottoms. More settlement in the center of a tank is less of a problem because the tank bottom retains it's slope better. Also, the reference at the end of the paragraph is incorrect. It should be 3.8, not 3.4.

A better presentation would be made by listing the benefits and disadvantages of cone up bottoms, and then the benefits and disadvantages of cone down bottoms.

Jerry Boldra

(Affirmative)

Proposed Appendix B

Editorial Someone will have to adapt this agenda item to API 650, 11th edition. We should not leave that to the printer.

Revise this agenda item to show revisions with reference to API 650, 11th edition.

Jerry Boldra

(Affirmative)

B.3.2.c Editorial This sub-paragraph is related to the NOTE after Paragraph B.3.7

Consider consolidating these two paragraphs.

Jerry Boldra

(Affirmative)

B.3.8 Editorial The clarity of the first sentence can be improved by adding four words.

As an alternative to B.3.7, the tank bottom may be sloped DOWNWARD toward a sump (CONE DOWN CONFIGURATION)

Jerry Boldra

(Affirmative)

B.3.7 Editorial Second sentence, last 7 words. Polish this wording by adding one word.

". . . 30% greater at the center than AT the shell."

Jerry Boldra

(Affirmative)

B.4 Editorial First sentence . . . the word "there" is spelled incorrectly.

Change "there" to "their"

Jerry Boldra

(Affirmative)

B.4 Editorial Clarify the beginning of the second sentence. It says, "Seven design examples are given to illustrate various

Seven design examples are given BELOW to illustrate . . ."





Date: May 23, 2023

1 2 3 4 5 6

Voter Name(Vote)


Type of Comment


Comment Resolution

options . . ."

Jerry Boldra

(Affirmative)

B.4.2.3.f Technical There are other considerations that should be part of a decision to add a spread footing. Also, an 18 inch width is arbritary.

The foundation design engineer may consider use of a spread footing design. This design can be useful to resist uplift forces and to spread the tank and product loads over a larger area.

Jerry Boldra

(Affirmative)

B.4 Technical Add a sentence suggesting design of the foundation so that the load (lb/sq. ft) under the foundation is approximately equal to the load (lb/sq. ft.) under the center of a full tank. If the bearing strength of the soil will allow, making these two loads approximately equal will promote more uniform settlement of the entire tank.

ADD: If the bearing strength of the soil will allow, the load under the tank foundation (including, roof, shell and contained liquid) should be approximately equal to the load under the center of a full tank.

Larry Hiner

Chicago Bridge & Iron Company(CB&I)

(NonVoter)

B.2.1 Technical The number of borings is conservative. Typically smaller tanks should have one at the center and three equally spaced at the tank shell radius. Larger tanks may require more.

Also it is very beneficial to provide a suggested boring depth. Add depth = 1.5 x tank dia. at the center and 1.0 x tank dia. at the periphery

Larry Hiner


(NonVoter)

B.2.5, Technical Second sentence. The word fine and uniform could be mistaken to mean sand.

Words “ fine and uniform” should be replaced with "well graded granular"

Larry Hiner


B.2.6 through B.2.10

Technical This is a repeat of API 651 Delete B.2.6 through B.2.10





Date: May 23, 2023

1 2 3 4 5 6

Voter Name(Vote)


Type of Comment


Comment Resolution

(NonVoter)

Larry Hiner


(NonVoter)

B.2.11 Technical Negative comment

"geotechnical engineer" is too specific - replace with "a person experienced in tank foundation design".

Replace “geotechnical engineer” with “a person experienced in tank foundation design”.

Larry Hiner


(NonVoter)

B.3.1 Technical B.3.1, 4th paragraph. This makes no sense to me. The center of a tank often has settlement of twice that at the shell. If the intent is to increase the bottom crown height when large settlement is anticipated than so state.

Larry Hiner


(NonVoter)

B.3.2.c Technical B.3.2.c – the indented sections f. through k. are from API 651.

Delete and just refer to API 651.

Larry Hiner


(NonVoter)

B.3.5 Technical There are several means of achieving soil compaction Instead of “Mechanical vibratory compaction and rolling is suggested to be done - - ” use the words “ Suitable compaction shall be done - - -“

Larry Hiner


(NonVoter)

B.3.6 Caution note

Technical B.3.6 Caution note - Compaction by water flooding is never acceptable because correct compaction cannot be achieved. There is no reason to provide the other listed explanations.

Delete current wording and replace with “Compaction by water flooding is not acceptable.

Larry Hiner

Chicago Bridge &

B.3.7 Technical Delete the value 30%. The relative settlement between center and edge depends on the soil and isn’t relevant

Delete the value 30%.





Date: May 23, 2023

1 2 3 4 5 6

Voter Name(Vote)


Type of Comment


Comment Resolution

Iron Company(CB&I)

(NonVoter)

to the paragraph.

Larry Hiner


(NonVoter)

B.3.7 Editorial The NOTE is a repeat of information and should be deleted. Repeating information creates problems for later revisions and makes the appendix too long.

Delete the NOTE in B.3.7

Larry Hiner


(NonVoter)

B.3.8 Technical B.3.8 is not necessary Delete B.3.8

Larry Hiner


(NonVoter)

B.4 Technical B.4 first sentence - wrong word used. Replace “there” with “their”

Larry Hiner


(NonVoter)

All Figure Technical Affirmative comment

All Figures - provide one set of general notes and then provide specific notes that are only applicable to that type foundation. Most notes are repeats of previous text. Eliminate most of the text and refer to the paragraph where it is addressed or to the referenced standard

Larry Hiner


Figure B-1 Technical Negative Comment

Do not show a flexible membrane liner extending under the shell. This has caused failures in the past. The membrane surface sets up a failure plane. The liners should be removed in all figures and just refer to

In the sketch -Do not show a flexible membrane liner extending under the shell. In note 6 remove the words “extending outside the footprint of the tank”





Date: May 23, 2023

1 2 3 4 5 6

Voter Name(Vote)


Type of Comment


Comment Resolution

(NonVoter) Appendix I

Also In note 6 remove the words “extending outside the footprint of the tank”

Larry Hiner


(NonVoter)

Figure B-1 Technical Use consistent terminology with figure B-5 “Tank Foundation Shoulder”

Change “Tank Shoulder” to “Tank Foundation Shoulder”

Larry Hiner


(NonVoter)

Figure B-1 Technical Material under the tank bottom is shown as sand or sand bitumen mix, however, B.3.2 provides other options.

Refer to B.3.2 in the figure instead of stating the different options.

Larry Hiner


(NonVoter)

Figures B-1A, B-2A, B-3A and B-4A

Technical The Figures B-1A, B-2A, B-3A and B-4A are basically a repeat of Figures B-1, B-2, B-3 and B-4. Just refer top API 651 on Figures B-1, B-2, B-3 and B-4

Delete Figures B-1A, B-2A, B-3A and B-4A and refer to API 651 on the Figures B-1, B-2, B-3 and B-4. Show an option block out for cathodic protection.

Larry Hiner


(NonVoter)

Figure B-2 Technical Negative comment

Sand or sand bitumen mix should never be placed between concrete and the bottom plate under the shell. Should use grout or fiberboard or just placed directly on the concrete.

Note 5- Many ring walls are built 10” wide, there is no reason to mandate 12”

Note 10 – there is no reason for this note – besides





Date: May 23, 2023

1 2 3 4 5 6

Voter Name(Vote)


Type of Comment


Comment Resolution

there are other reasons for anchorage.

Note 11 Sand Bitumen Mix is impractical. Will eventually get pushed out on warm days.

Larry Hiner


(NonVoter)


The flexible membrane shall not extend radially past the shell. Change the sketch and note 7

Larry Hiner


(NonVoter)

Figure B-4. Technical Negative comment

Sand or sand bitumen mix should never be placed between concrete and the bottom plate under the shell. Should use grout or fiberboard or just the bottom should placed directly on the concrete. Modify sketch and note 5

Larry Hiner


(NonVoter)


Never extend the flexible membrane liner radially past the tank shell. Correct in the sketch and in note 7

Larry Hiner


(NonVoter)

Section B.5 Technical This should be covered in Appendix I Delete this section

Larry Hiner

Chicago Bridge &

B 6 Technical There are other reasons for anchoring tanks besides wind and seismic. This section provides no guidance

Delete this section.





Date: May 23, 2023

1 2 3 4 5 6

Voter Name(Vote)


Type of Comment


Comment Resolution

Iron Company(CB&I)

(NonVoter)

and should be deleted.

Douglas Miller


(Negative)

Technical Refer to Larry Hiner comments for basis of CB&I negative ballot

Alan Geis

Colonial Pipeline Company

(Negative)

Technical I dont believe the Appendix needs to go into this much detail. There are differing opinions on the number of borings per tank, pending diameter. I don’t agree with the foundation drawings showing a sand or sand bitumen mix on top of the foundation and then sealed (especially if a concrete ringwall is used).

Marilyn Shores

Explorer Pipeline Company

(Affirmative)

Parargraph B2.1

Editorial The final sentence of this paragraph (after the quantity of borings) states that the borings should be on the circumference and "one close to the center of the tank foundation." The ones on the circumference would be close to the center of the foundation. I believe you meant one close to the center of the tank.

I am not sure that that "together with one or more borings" means.

Shown in comment.

Marilyn Shores


(Affirmative)

Paragraph B2.5

Editorial I do not understand why substitute fill material would need to be built up higher than the existing ground level if it is just going to be removed for the ring wall. It could be just to the level of the excavation.

Delete the new words in the first sentence of this paragraph.

Marilyn Shores


Paragraph B2.6

Editorial A word seems to be missing in the first sentence. The chemistry of native soil and fill material shall be considered in the foundation design.





Date: May 23, 2023

1 2 3 4 5 6

Voter Name(Vote)


Type of Comment


Comment Resolution

(Affirmative)

Marilyn Shores


(Affirmative)

B2.10 Technical This document is for the design and construction of new tank foundations. I don't believe the discussion of a leak is appropriate here.

Delete this paragraph.

Marilyn Shores


(Affirmative)

Paragraph B3.1

Other 18" seems excessive, especially when you think of areas around New Orleans.

I would like input from contractors or operators who have tanks in this region. Do you comply with the 18" suggestion?

Tearle Taylor

Flint Hills Resources

(Negative)

650--554 Technical I applaud the attempt by Alan to improve App B in API 650 but do not agree with some assessments in the documentation or the associated drawings that have been added.

I voted negative on this ballot and due to the number of comments or challenges, I thought it more appropriate to add them to the ballot then try to spell them out in the ballot comment section. I made commnets to the word document and put my comments in a blue font and sent the word document in an E-mail as an attachment to Gordon Robertson and Alan Watson.

Nelson Acosta

HMT Inspection

(Negative)

Para. B.2.1 Technical The outlined number of soil borings or CPTs seems excessive in light of more normal industry practice for such requirements for AST / foundation construction. Unless there is known, or determined, variations in sunsrface strata at the AST site, the requirement for 9 or 13 borings or CPTs for tanks from 40 ft. through 130 ft. diameter and larger is excessive and not justified. Further discussion and agreement on this requirement will be necessary within SCAST before this portion of





Date: May 23, 2023

1 2 3 4 5 6

Voter Name(Vote)


Type of Comment


Comment Resolution

the item can move forward.

Doug Bayles

Inserv Integrated Service Company LLC

(Affirmative)

B1.1 Editorial Second sentence is a run on sentence. It should be split up with commas

Recommendations are offered to outline standard industry practice, to point out some pre-cautions that should be considered in the design and construction of storage tank foundations and to assist in minimizing soilside corrosion to tank bottoms.

Doug Bayles


(Affirmative)

B.2.3.4.i Editorial Would suggest changing the wording to make the sentence more clear.

New sentence could read: Sites where tanks, buildings or existing piles have been removed can cause the soil beneath the new tank to have varying degrees of soil compaction (density).

Doug Bayles


(Affirmative)

B.2.6 Editorial First sentence does not read clearly. The chemistry of native soil and fill material shall be considered in the foundation design.

Doug Bayles


(Affirmative)

B.2.10 Editorial Some rewording may make this paragraph easier to follow. The first time that I read it, it did not flow properly.

If a leak occurs in the tank bottom, the leaking "product" can change the properties of soil supporting the plates plates. This change can induce corrosion affect the cathodic protection system.

If water leaks from the tanks, the environment under the tank may become more corrosive. If product leaks from the tank, it





Date: May 23, 2023

1 2 3 4 5 6

Voter Name(Vote)


Type of Comment


Comment Resolution

could create corrosion cells that did not previously exist.

A leak......

Doug Bayles


(Affirmative)

B.3.1 Editorial Last paragraph seems out of place. It could be relocated to another section of the Appendix.

Suggest working it into B.2.3

Doug Bayles


(Affirmative)

B.3.5 Technical Suggest adding a statement that maximum placement of backfill should be performed in 8" lifts or as directed by the recommendations of the soils report.

Esma Aldahir

Lyondell Chemical Company

(Affirmative)

Editorial Editorial comments were submitted to the author Revise document as noted on edited document

Laurence Foster

Marathon Petroleum Company LLC

(Affirmative)

B.2.1 Technical The recommended number of borings is excessive.

a. Complete 1 boring for tanks up to 60’ in diameter.

b. Complete 3 borings on the perimeter and 1 boring in the middle for tanks up to 120’ in diameter.

c. Complete 4 borings on the perimeter and 1 boring in the middle for tanks up to 203’ in diameter.

Laurence Foster B.3.1 Editorial B.2.4.h talks about control fill during hydro. This Delete "See B.2.4.h"





Date: May 23, 2023

1 2 3 4 5 6

Voter Name(Vote)


Type of Comment


Comment Resolution

Marathon Petroleum Company LLC

(Affirmative)

doesn't fit with B.3.1.

James McBride

Petrex, Inc.

(Affirmative)

B.4 Editorial On the first line of B.4 "..there.." should be "..their.." Change "..there.." to "..their.."

John Lieb

Tank Industry Consultants, Inc.

(Affirmative)

B.1.1 Editorial I don't agree with the addition of the phrase to the last sentence in this section. I don't think it adds anything.

Consider deleting additional phrase.

John Lieb


(Affirmative)

B.2.1 Technical In the second paragrpah, third line, "required" does not make sense to me. Who or what requires a particular number? Deleting this word will not affect the intent of this section.

Delete the word "required".

John Lieb


(Affirmative)

B.2.1 Editorial In the last paragraph, the phrase "together with one or more borings" doesn't make sense to me. Can this be clarified?

Either clarify the sentence in this section or delete the phrase "together with one or more borings".

John Lieb


(Affirmative)

B.2.3.i Editorial I think replacing "having differential" with "to have non-uniform" in front of "compaction" reads better.

Revise per comment above.

John Lieb


B.2.3.j Editorial Format needs correction and sentence is unclear. Correct capital J to small j, fix paragraph format, and change sentence to read "Rerouting existing drainage ditches, aboveground and underground





Date: May 23, 2023

1 2 3 4 5 6

Voter Name(Vote)


Type of Comment


Comment Resolution

(Affirmative) water courses".

John Lieb


(Affirmative)

B.2.5 Editorial Change second and last sentences to read as suggested below.

Change second sentence to read "The fill material should be fine and uniform..."

Change "will" in last sentence to "may".

John Lieb


(Affirmative)

B.2.6 Editorial The first sentence is grammatically incorrect. Change to read as suggested below:

"The chemistry of native soil and fill material should be considered..."

John Lieb


(Affirmative)

B.2.9 Editorial "Contaminates" should be "contaminants". Change "contaminates" to "contaminants"

John Lieb


(Affirmative)

B.2.10 Technical I think this section should be deleted. Leaks are not permitted on newly constructed tanks.

Delete this section.

John Lieb


(Affirmative)

B.3.1 Editorial In the third paragraph, the first sentence is awkward. Suggest change per recommendation below:

Change "have" in first sentence to "providing".

John Lieb


(Affirmative)

B.3.2 Editorial The second paragraph is grammatically incorrect and doesn't make sense.

Correct and clarify second paragraph.

John Lieb B.3.2.b Technical If oiled sand foundations are permitted for new tanks, I No suggestions.





Date: May 23, 2023

1 2 3 4 5 6

Voter Name(Vote)


Type of Comment


Comment Resolution


(Affirmative)

have no comments on this section. Are oiled sand foundations permitted on new tanks?

John Lieb


(Affirmative)

B.3.2.f Editorial Appears to be a typo in "ASTM (157". Also, sections d and e are missing and paragrph format is inconsistent.

Correct per comments above.

John Lieb


(Affirmative)

B.3.2.i and j Editorial These sections will require bullets to indicate a purchaser decision or specification is required.

Add bullets.

John Lieb


(Affirmative)

B.3.7 Technical I don't agree with the addition of the 30% value in the first paragraph. It could be more or less. I think this section should remain as originally worded.

Delete proposed additional "30%" and "than the tank shell".

John Lieb


(Affirmative)

B.4 Editorial In first sentence correct spelling of "their". In second sentence, change "given" to "provided".

See above.

John Lieb


(Affirmative)

GENERAL Technical The number (7) and prescriptive level of detail of the examples proposed seems excessive. I would be in favor of fewer and less prescriptive examples.

Randy Kissell

TGB Partnership

(Negative)

B.2.1 Technical I don't understand "together with one or more borings" in:

"The CPTs or borings shall be carried out on the tank foundation circumference at approximately 10m (32ft)

Rewrite this sentence more clearly.





Date: May 23, 2023

1 2 3 4 5 6

Voter Name(Vote)


Type of Comment


Comment Resolution

center to center and one close to the center of the tank foundation, together with one or more borings. "

Randy Kissell

TGB Partnership

(Negative)

B.2.5 Technical Change "in eliminating the pitting." to "in preventing pitting."

Randy Kissell

TGB Partnership

(Negative)

B.2.6 Technical Change "The chemistry of native soil and fill material shall consider in the foundation design." to "Consider the chemistry of the native soil and fill material when designing the foundation."

Randy Kissell

TGB Partnership

(Negative)

B.2.8 Technical Don't use "pad material" without defining what this term means.

Randy Kissell

TGB Partnership

(Negative)

B.3.2 Technical Change "The following material including but not limited to can be readily shaped to the bottom contour of the tank to provide maximum contact area " to "The following material can be readily shaped to the bottom contour of the tank to provide maximum contact area "

Randy Kissell

TGB Partnership

(Negative)

B.3.2 c) Technical under c), the letters begin with f, which is out of order. Also, there is not ASTM spec (157.

Randy Kissell

TGB Partnership

(Negative)

B.6 Technical We need to update the wording to "mechanically anchored" per Appendix E and also allow for anchorage due to internal pressure.

Change

"When a tank is required to be anchored due to wind loading or seismic stress, " to

"When a tank is required to be mechanically anchored, "

John Mooney

(Affirmative)

Fig B-4 Technical Fig. B-4 Suggest downward sloping the top of the concrete slab at the tank bottom (if no sand used under the tank) or the edge of the sand to drain





Date: May 23, 2023

1 2 3 4 5 6

Voter Name(Vote)


Type of Comment


Comment Resolution

rainwater better. Also in the notes, many tanks are built without annular plates or backing strips. Suggest not using a sand layer when the tank has no backing strips and sealing the edge and sloping the concrete slab down from the edge of the tank bottom. I believe that there are numerous small tanks on concrete slabs with no sand.

Richard Pinegar

Cargill Inc.

(Affirmative)

ALL Other Alan,

Thank you for all of the hard work and long hours that you put in on this. Looks very good to me.

Best Regards

Dick Pinegar

Cargill


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