classic posters interview book two

8/7/2019 Classic Posters Interview Book Two

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Classic Posters The Interviews Book Two

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DEDICATION

This book is dedicated to poster artistBob Fried, whose work to me isinspirational and grand.

An ebook from

Heart Center Publications

315 Marion Avenue

Big Rapids, Michigan 49307

First published 2011

2002-2011 Michael ErlewineISBN 0-925182-74-5

All rights reserved. No part of thepublication may be reproduced, storedin a retrieval system, or transmitted, inany form or by any means, electronic,mechanical, photocopying, recording, orotherwise, without the prior permissionof the publisher.

Cover poster art from 1967 by Michael

Erlewine


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Table of Contents04 Introduction06 Interview with Todd Slater19 Interview with Stainboy28 Interview Diesel Fuel Prints

41 Interview with jb (rastagrafix)43 Interview with Eleanor Grosch44 Interview with Dennis Preston47 Interview with Carolyn Ferris49 Interview with Kerry Awn50 Interview with Scott McDougall52 Interview with Casey Burns54 Interview with Marco Almera55 Interview with Zak Wilson56 Interview with Ward Sutton58 Interview with Tony R. Gorgon60 Interview with Nocturnal Showprint61 Interview with Moxie Gusto

62 Interview with Mat Marello|64 Interview with Mark Pedini65 Interview with Mark Dancey66 Interview with Justin Kamerer67 Interview with John Kovach68 Interview with Jeff Gaither69 Interview with JCooper70 Interview with Finch71 Interview with Electrofork72 Interview with Delanorock74 Interview with Darren Grealish76 Interview with Steven Cerio78 Interview with Leia Bell

79 Interview with Andrio Abero80 Interview with Jorge Alderete81 Interview with Tara McPherson82 Interview with Matt Mastrud83 Interview with Postergirl Press84 Interview with Unflown (Jacob Covey)86 Interview with Heads of State88 Interview with Adam Cohen89 Interview with Tom Deja91 Interview with Andrew Todd93 Interview with Sash94 Interview Standard Design Company95 Interview with Gregg Gordon

107 Interview Gigposters Clayton Hayes

112 Interview with Jermaine Rogers133 Alton Kelley's Dinosaur Series134 Derek Hess Set135 Grande Ballroom Set137 Mountain Aire Festival138 The Neon Rose of Victor Moscoso140 Psychedelic Solution Card Sets141 The Acid Tests Posters144 The Maritime Hall Series

146 The Retinal Circus147 Artist's Rights Today148 ArtRock PCL Set151 BGF - The New Fillmore Series153 BGSE: Bill Graham Special Events

154 BGFD: Bill Grahamat Denver155 Mark Arminski Series Set157 Psychedelic Solution Art Shows159 Major Bands in Other Countries160 Major Bands in Southern California161 Major Bands in Texas and the West163 Major Bands in the Northeast164 Major Bands in the Northwest165 Major Bands in the South and Southwest166 Major Bands of the Midwest169 Major Light Show Artists170 Major Poster Artists in Other Countries171 Major Poster Artists of California

172 Major Artists of Southern California173 Major Poster Artists of West and Texas174 Major Poster Artists of West and Texas175 Major Poster Artists of the Bay Area177 Major Poster Artists of the East Coast178 Major Poster Artists of the Midwest179 Major Poster Artists of the Northwest180 Major Poster Artists South/ Southwest181 Major Poster Venues of the East Coast183 Major Poster Venues Txas and West185 Major Poster Venues of the East Coast187 Major Poster Venues of the Northwest189 Major Poster Venues South/Southwest190 Major Promoters of California191 Major Show Promoters in the Midwest192 Major Promoters Southern California193 Major Show Promoters of the Northeast194 Major Show Promoters of the Northwest195 Major Show Promoters California196 Poster Venues of Other Countries197 Major Poster Artists of the Bay Area199 California Bands and Performers200 Major Poster Artists West and Texas201 Major Poster Venues of California203 Major Poster Venues of the Bay Area204 Major Poster Venues of the Midwest207 Major Promoters of Texas and the West

208 Major Promoters of South/ Southwest209 Antones Blues Club211 Armadillo World Headquarters213 The Straight Theater


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ClassicPosters.com - History

I have been in love with music concertposters since 1965 when I ended up incharge of advertising for my group the

Prime Movers Blues Band. I guess noone else was interested or could figureout how to advertise but me, so before Iknew it I had converted a small atticroom in the Prime Mover House at 114N. Division in Ann Arbor Michigan to asilkscreen shop.

It was there I spent who-knows-how-many hours cutting Rubylith screensand printing band posters. Replicating

an image you love for a band you lovewas a slow but deeply satisfyingprocess. The rest of the band (and me)would then take the freshly printedposters and put them up all over town.The posters didnt last long either. Thenext day many of them would be goneand we would have to do it all overagain. I wonder where those posters aretoday.

This was in the mid-1960s and concert

music posters were reaching a newaudience and a new era. Of course, themain poster scene was in SanFrancisco. Eventually we heard aboutthe poster artists there and saw their.Wow! We loved it.

So it is no wonder that my love forconcert posters remained later when Ibecame an archivist of popular cultureand started AMG: the All-Music Guide,the All-Movie Guide, and the All-GameGuide. When I sold AMG in 1998 I hadplans for the All-Poster Guide, but thecompany that bought AMG was notinterested in my ideas once theypurchased my company. The All-PosterGuide was canned from day one, but Inever forgot about it.

Some years later, after I was kind ofpushed out of my former company, asentrepreneurs often are, I decided tocreate the All-Poster Guide all by

myself. However that URL on the web(by that time) belonged to someone elseso I settled on ClassicPosters.com anddug in.

Some years went by as I assiduouslycompiled data on rock posters. I alsobegan to photograph posters so thatyears from now scholars could studythem. In the basement of mylibrary/studio I built my own vacuumtable and paid $5000 for the latest

professional camera in 2001, the NikonD1x. Today that same camera is worthmaybe $300.

With my vacuum table to hold theposters in place, special lights toilluminate the posters,my Nikon D1x, Ibegan to photograph and measureconcert posters. Before I was done I hadphotographed over 30,000 posters,handbills, postcards, and original art.

Collectors from all over the countryeventually trusted me enough to eitherbring their collections to my studiothemselves or (while holding theirbreath) dare to send this priceless artovernight by FedEx.

And I made a number of trips to SanFrancisco and the Bay Area to meet theartists and collectors of these posters,those that were still with us.

To make a long story short, although Ibuilt a wonderful poster site, because Iwas delayed in my original impulse andidea, by the time my site wasoperational I had competition inWolfgangsVault.com. They hadsomething I did not have, which wasdeep pockets. I had no way to compete


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with them and they built a wonderful siteand also bought up almost every majorposter collection I know of.

It was disappointing but that is the way

life works sometimes. You snooze, youlose. I was a day late and a dollar short,as they say. Anyway that is all waterover the dam at this point.

I seem to keep getting older and I amtold that is a good thing compared to thealternative, so it is time for me to sharesome of my work with anyone out thereinterested in concert posters. Now I amcareful to say Concert Poster because

I have no interest in what are calledPromotional Posters, howeverbeautiful they may be. I only ever caredabout actual posters that were madeand put up around town for a real livemusic concert. We wont be discussingpromotional posters here.

This is the first of what I hope will beseveral volumes of material on concertposters. I apologize in advance for anytypos and the less-than-elegant

formatting of this book. I dont have thetime or interest just now to clean it allup, although as you will see it is quitereadable. I have too many other thingsto take care of while I am still on theplanet, so please accept what I canoffer, warts and all.

And ClassicPosters.com is still verymuch alive although run by someoneother than myself. Please visit theirwonderful site for images, etc. I havedonated all my 30,000+ images, articles,data, database, etc. to them and alsothe the Bentley Historical Library at theUniversity of Michigan, where my workwill be available to scholars in the future.

What you have here are a group ofseventeen interviews I did with some of

the most important poster artists andcollectors I have been able to meet.Some of them are short, but most ofthem are long to very long. If you love

concert posters and their history, atleast in the mid-Sixties, then thesearticles will be a fun read for you.


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Interview with Todd Slater

by Paul Grushkin

Yo La Tengo by Todd Slater

Produced by Michael Erlewine ()

"He caught on pretty quick." That's theword on the hot, new Texas-basedposter artist Todd Slater, coming fromcollectors, fellow artists, and even hisscreenprinter, Steve Horvath of D & LScreenprint in Seattle. Horvath prints asmany as 20 posters a month (often in400 piece, 8-color, large-format runs) forJustin Hampton, Emek, the artist-association known as PNE (Hampton,Emek, and Jermaine Rogers), andbeginning recently for David Witt andRob Jones.

Slater's work from halfway through 2004to the present shows how a burgeoningposter talent and a master screenprintercan combine to create spellbinding

concert advertisements for majoralternative bands that have becomecollectible art pieces. Says Horvath,"Todd at first wasn't hip to all thepossibilities. But when I showed himproofs of Emek's work, and indiscussing the mechanics of buildingJustin's work, he saw how color

enhancement thru metallic inks andunusual color blends can increase therichness and depth of the final piece. Isee him really beginning to hit his stride.

Now when I get a new design in fromTodd, I often think to myself, 'this isgoing to be fun.'"

I spoke over the phone with Todd at hisdesign studio in his home, two hours asthe crow flies outside of Dallas.

Paul Grushkin: So tell me, you're aTexan?

Todd Slater: I am now. I was born inPeoria, Illinois. We moved to Texas

when I was five years old. I was inAustin for many years and then I went tocollege in east Texas and I'm stillregretting that [laughs].

Arcade Fire by Todd Slater

Paul Grushkin: Where did you go toschool in east Texas?

Todd Slater: Stephen F. Austin. Igraduated with an art degree in 2003with an emphasis in graphic design.

Paul Grushkin: What did you do post-college? Did you immediately seek workat an ad agency?
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Todd Slater: I looked for straight jobsand I couldn't get any. So I continuedworking in a screen printing shop(Tattoo Productions - smart guys.) doing

illustrations for t-shirts. I'd done thatpart-time while I was in school and I justtook that on full-time when I got out. Ididn't do much of the printing myself, butthe elements I learned there definitelyhelped with my knowledge of theprinting process for posters.

Paul Grushkin: That meantmechanically you were instructed in theproper roots way with Rubylith.

Todd Slater: Yes, there was a LOT ofcut Rubylith [laughs].

Rev. Horton Heat by Todd Slater

Paul Grushkin: As a kid, were you ascribbler?

Taking Back Sunday by Todd Slater

Todd Slater: I always drew. I even drawwhen I'm on the phone - I make littleconcentric circles when I'm talking. I'malways drawing something. I sketchevery day. I was lucky in that myparents were always encouraging.

Paul Grushkin: The things that youpicked up in college, how were theygermane to your work today?

Todd Slater: In college, I found looking

through art history you discover whatyou like - you're educated as to all thathappened previously. You're taking arthistory classes, always good, and you'relearning some of the basics, which isgood and bad depending on who'sforcing what down your throat (laughs).College makes sense if it gives youperspective and focus. But it can beinsular too. You know, like living on anisland.

Paul Grushkin: Were you influenced atthat time by knowledge of the Austinscene and Frank Kozik's meteoric rise inthe early 1990's?

Todd Slater: I knew the name Kozik,but I wasn't that influenced by rock & rollposter artists. On the other hand, there


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was this Chicago movement fromaround

1966 - 1968 called the "Hairy Who." Ithink Keith Herzik mentioned it in ART

OF MODERN ROCK as havinginfluenced him too. When I tripped overit, I thought, 'this is great. This is exactlywhat I want my own stuff to feel like.' Mywork doesn't look like that, but I'm stillreally influenced by it.

Paul Grushkin: So you like 'rebelliousdeconstructivism,' something of thatnature?

Todd Slater: Yes, because you're

taught art is supposed to be 'this,' andthen you see something completelydifferent from your earlier points ofreference, as in seeing what Peter Saulwas all about . . . and I really, really likedit. It was funny. It turned me on. I justliked everything about it. I liked therebellious parts too.

Paul Grushkin: Is it in art school you'retaught to faithfully reproduce a conceptor direction, to be able to see somethingand replicate it - especially in terms ofcommercial potential? Then, only whenyou have that capability down will 'they'allow you to deviate from that point. AmI right? I've never been to art school.

Todd Slater: Yes, I would agree withthat.

Paul Grushkin: Because in commercialwork you're basically asked to fulfill acampaign. If it's advertising a product,

basically it's less interpretation as it is aform of replication and enhancement.

Todd Slater: Definitely. So manypeople ask me to ape styles and stufflike that. I can't tell you how many timesI hear that!

Paul Grushkin: Which gets prettyfrustrating if you're a rock and roller whoby nature wants to break out.

Todd Slater: Oh yes [laughs], you don't

want to do that - duplicating effort overand over. You always want to do yourown thing. You want to have as littlecompromise as humanly possible.

Paul Grushkin: So did you manage toleave east Texas?

They Might Be Giants by Todd Slater

Todd Slater: Well, I'm still . . . I'm inTyler, Texas right now which is still eastTexas, but while I was working at thatscreen printing shop I foundGigposters.com. For the first time, farfrom the 'happening scene,' I was ableto put names to people's work that I'dseen before. I realized after a couple ofweeks of looking at this site that makingconcert posters was something Iabsolutely wanted to do.ClassicPosters.com also has increasedmy knowledge of the overall posterscene, especially the artists of thepsychedelic period.

Paul Grushkin: Were you listening to alot of rock and roll all through highschool and in college?


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Todd Slater: Yes. I mostly listened to aTON of Ween. I also was listening toSonic Youth, the Pixies and the MeatPuppets. Yes, I was listening to rock

and roll all through college. I wasexposed to a lot of different new musicstyles - which is part of the reason to goto college.

Paul Grushkin: Just looking at the 57pieces currently posted onGigposters.com of your work, in thebeginning you didn't have a style, orhadn't yet found a style. I mean, youliked bright color, that was pretty clear.But you were not yet someone who'd

truly cut loose.

Todd Slater: When people first startposting on Gigposters.com their postersalways look a certain way, almostclumsy like. Then you look at whateverybody else is doing and you startseeing other posters that have morerelevance than yours. It's at thatmoment your thought process opens up.The possibilities just start to make

sense, and seem endless rather thanconstricted. Maybe my first efforts wererestricted in their scope of imaginationbecause I didn't make those posters forother people to see 'outside of myneighborhood.' I made them thinking afew people will see them and that's that.But . . . when you submit something to apowerful site where hundreds if notthousands of people are watching, youbegin to realize a lot of people are goingreact to your work in relation to a wholelot of other work, and you start thinkingharder about things like typography andimage choice. Of course, given thespotlight, there's also the tendency toover-think and get too arty! You neverwant to get too full of yourself.

They Might Be Giants by Todd Slater

Paul Grushkin: I agree, great poster artis a marriage between technique andimagination. Jeff Kleinsmith of Sub Popand Patent Pending says that the realbreakthrough comes from a betterunderstanding of typography. Thehardest task is to integrate type with anoff-the-wall idea. You want to be looseas heck, but poor type choices can tripyou up, mess with your statement, pullpower from your concept. How do youdeal with your work getting looser, but

still having the need to communicate asan advertising piece?

Todd Slater: I always think my posterscome out better when it's for a band Ihaven't yet listened to. I think thepressures off then. In fact, I think thebest way to get loose is to do a posterfor a band you don't even listen to.You're forced to work more creatively atit, to get at something meaningful that

draws attention to their show.Paul Grushkin: In other words whenyou feel you're in uncharted territory,you're better off.

Todd Slater: My dream job would be todo a poster for every date of a Weentour, but I think the pressure would just


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kill me. I think I'd be thinking . . .because I'm such a big fan of the band .. . I'd be thinking 'what would they thinkabout this?' Everything would have to be

impossibly perfect. I'm sure I'd over thinkeach piece because I know their ownwork too well. Compare that to, say,Velvet Revolver, which is not a bandthat I listen to. But I like the way theposter came out - in fact, the conceptand execution came almost easily.

Paul Grushkin: Well, then you'd haveto say one of the hardest things would tohave been the Ames Brothers andforcing yourself to reinterpret Pearl Jam

200 different times.

Todd Slater: I've the utmost respect forCoby and Barry at Ames. Their work is aperfect example of loose and tight.Ames, and Patent Pending, AestheticApparatus, and Heads of State . . . for

just those reasons we've been speakingabout, these would be a few of myfavorite poster artists.

Paul Grushkin: What do you admire

about their thinking, or take from theirapproach?

Pretty Girls Make Graves byTodd Slater

Todd Slater: The best poster artists re-invent themselves. When they're on aroll, every one of their posters iscompletely different. And talk about the

pressure in which to think like that - theAmes Bros. alone are at the top of theclass. I remember reading in ART OFMODERN ROCK that sometimes theydidn't get the green light until Monday,with the finished piece due on Friday tomake a concert date. And it had toshine, had to stand out, among all thathad come before. Amazing. You canlearn from that, you know!

Paul Grushkin: Very true!

Todd Slater: To be able to just bangthem out in that short amount of timeand to be able to come up withinteresting images every time, my ohmy.

Paul Grushkin: Well at Ames, they'vecreated an image bank where thingsthat they've seen, not quite fromchildhood, but certainly from college onthey've thrown into various drawers,

files, and folders. So this way they've arich repository to pull from and rely on toget some instant-active imagination. Butthe fact is to even create that archiveyou have to be actively watching theworld go by. Kozik's like that - he has agreat library. I'd imagine Mike King doestoo.

Todd Slater: Somehow every posterCoby and Barry do looks totally differentbut still says "Ames." It's just crazy. I'mhoping I might achieve something likethat over the course of time.

Paul Grushkin: I'm going to take notsuch a wild leap and say that with yournew Rev. Horton Heat, Taking BackSunday, Cramps, and Velvet Revolverpieces, you're beginning to hit your


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stride. Something's happening here.Now, do you feel that too?

Todd Slater: Yes. I think because I'mdoing this every day now, there's not a

day that goes by I don't work on aposter.

Paul Grushkin: Is it your day job?

Todd Slater: My day job is a freelancegraphic designer. I do other freelancedesign, but posters are a lot of that andit's becoming more and more of that.

Bad Religion by Todd Slater

Paul Grushkin: Are you now seekinggigs or are people coming to you?

Todd Slater: I do still seek out gigs, butmore and more people are coming tome.

Paul Grushkin: Give me an example ofpeople coming to you.

Todd Slater: I'm doing a final poster for

Luna's final four shows at the BoweryBallroom. I always wanted to dosomething for a New York venue andthe Bowery Ballroom is this legendaryplace so I'm really excited about that.

Paul Grushkin: As excited abouthaving done the Modest Mouse and

Keane posters for the 'new Fillmore'series?

Todd Slater: Yes, I was happy to dothose. Knowing the history of the Bill

Graham series and how many greatartists have been associated with it -from Rick Griffin to Chris Shaw - Iapproached Arlene Owseichik, who wasthe longtime Art Director there until veryrecently. I basically begged her to giveme that Modest Mouse poster [laughs].And she didn't want to either; she didn'tknow who the heck I was. But I'm agood persuader (laughs).

Paul Grushkin: Exposure in majorcities is a must. Even though the NewFillmore' series pays dirt cheap, the factis, now you're IN the Fillmore series. Butthe bigger picture is of course gettingwork for tour, through the merchandisingcompanies like Bravado, FEA, andSignatures Network.

Todd Slater: I do a lot for Signatures,maybe a couple jobs a month for themnow. Scott Corkins, Aimee Bruckner,

Darryl Kenwood, Tania Chu are great towork with. I just finished stuff for theYeah Yeah Yeahs and I got approvalson a couple of designs for Incubus,Madonna, and Primus. Their roster iscertainly as good a mainstream rosteras there is in rock and roll. They usuallygive you about a week to do the jobs,which is fine. I like that there arebasically no laborious revisionsinvolved; they either take it or they don't.

Paul Grushkin: Now do they furtheradapt them for the purpose of addingthe type and any logo treatments etcetera?

Todd Slater: Yes, I always have tosend them an Illustrator file and theytweak it from there. I've seen the


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finished product and the printing on theshirts is top quality. No problems withtheir hitting high production standards.

Misfits by Todd Slater

Paul Grushkin: Well they've one of thelegends of rock and roll working forthem - Frank Vacanti, their productioncoordinator. Have you ever spoken withFrank?

Todd Slater: No, but I've heard a lotabout him.

Paul Grushkin: Frank ran productionfor Signatures' predecessor, WinterlandProductions, in San Francisco and later,briefly, in Oakland. He owns the recordsfor t-shirts printed in an hour, in a day, ina week, in a month, in a year, and for atour. He supervised printing for thelargest tours on record, Grateful Dead,Springsteen, Madonna, U2, New Kids,Ozzy, you name it.

Todd Slater: I can appreciate that.Even in the shop I worked at, there wasa super competitive level that motivatedeveryone through the complete job. Itwas always, how many shirts can weprint in a day? Can we keep that highquality all through the run? I think thatsets you up for doing quality work in

printing posters too. I mean, it's whatI've come to respect from SteveHorvath's work at D & L Screenprint; my

job is to come up with inspirational

ideas, and his is to execute top qualityproduction that also makes thedeadlines. I just try not to make toomany changes by the point he begins toburn the screens!

Cramps by Todd Slater

Paul Grushkin: Now, you chose D & L

because of Justin Hampton?Todd Slater: Actually, poster dealerDave Mayer at PhilaArts in Philadelphiasaid he was a good guy to print with andI went to Steve's website and saw heprinted for Emek and Hampton and thePNE team of Emek, Hampton, andJermaine Rogers. So I arranged to get aposter printed with Steve and he gaveme a really fast turn around time, andthe quality was top notch. Then, I began

doing so many posters that I wassending him the files on Monday and hewas having them printed and shipped byWednesday. This was all my stuff fromthe fourth quarter of 2004, when I wasdoing two posters a week. It was a lotfor him to print, for sure. Without Steve'sattention to detail and his teaching me


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about metallic inks and such, I don'tthink I'd have achieved the next level inmy work so quickly.

Paul Grushkin: Todd, I'm going to say

this as best I can: You're probably thefinest new artist not to have appeared inART OF MODERN ROCK.

Pixies by Todd Slater

Todd Slater: I appreciate that verymuch, Paul.

Paul Grushkin: When Dennis King andI first got to know you, things were still . .. well, you hadn't broken out in terms ofstyle or interpretation quite yet. Sure,that was Dennis' and my opinion, but Ithink you'd agree. In a funny way, wekind of regret the book came out when itdid, just before Christmas, because itnever had a chance to include your trulyemergent work. But that work appearedliterally just after, when the book had togo to press.

Todd Slater: I knew that my posterswere improving - and I've still got a longway to go - but knowing about the book,knowing that so many top quality artistsand designers were going to be in it, likeit was going to become the 'ultimate

yearbook' of our modern-day scene,was a form of motivation all in itself.

Paul Grushkin: When you look back atyour earliest work, which we can still

see on Gigposters.com, and comparingit to the stuff that started to come out inthe fourth quarter of 2004, how do youexplain the difference?

Slayer by Todd Slater

Todd Slater: I wish that I could take thefirst stuff off Gigposters; I really don't

want anybody seeing that anymore[laughs]. I just think that when I didthose first posters, I wasn't reallythinking about posters as much as I donow. I wasn't thinking about an efficientway to communicate whatever I wastrying to say. I just think as I kept doingposters there were less and lessintrusive elements in the posters and theconcepts kept getting tighter.

Paul Grushkin: For example, right nowyou're expressing a great love affair withheadshots that are twisted and bent inyour imagination.

Todd Slater: That comes right out ofPeter Saul's influence on me. He had ashow of heads and portraits that sort oflooked liked enlarged "Garbage Pail"


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kids or something. It just comes fromreally liking that guy, I think.

Paul Grushkin: You also had a periodof time when you fell in love with black

and red. Tell me about that becauseRob Jones went through the same thingwith part of an earlier White Stripesseries.

Todd Slater: Yes, Rob's a good friend.After I made my separations I always flipthe color. I'm able to flip the colors onthe computer digitally very quickly andsee, okay do I want it to be these threecolors or these two colors. Red and

black just became the most forceful tome. I just thought that scheme workedbest, and also financially it was cheaperto do two colors because I was printingso many posters.

Paul Grushkin: After that black and redperiod when you were teaching yourselfsimplicity in color management, thenyou went into a further reductive mode,in other words stripping out lots of thecomplex content that was in those

pieces and then concentrating on thehead shots themselves, manipulatingthe shapes of the faces and changingtheir angularity or ellipse aspects, at thatpoint it became tremendously interestingfor the person enjoying the exercise.When you're moving away from theprosaic into the deconstruct/reconstruct,suddenly you're making people abeliever in unusual shapes.

Col. Claypool by Todd Slater

Todd Slater: Actually a lot of theposters do start off as just kinds ofshapes. Like there was a sort ofdiamond shape for the Rev. Horton Heatposter, that was just kind of interestingto me, and I thought what other kind ofshapes can I put around this, and it'slike okay, well, this is kind of turning intoa face now. A lot of times the fullthought process originates fromsomething as basic as an interesting

starting shape.

Paul Grushkin: Now, you also likethinking big and I guess that SteveHorvath is very adept at realizing thingsin big formats. With the exception of theFillmore poster, is most of the last of thestuff from 2004, 24" x 36"?

Todd Slater: It's usually been 17" x 24".I think that's a good poster size. I'vebought posters as a collector and when

you're shelling out something over $25,like $35 or $50, it's always a nice bonuswhen it's a big poster.


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Franz Ferdinand by Todd Slater

Paul Grushkin: What pound weight isthe paper you're using?

Todd Slater: It's 150 pound,manufactured by French.

Paul Grushkin: It's paper that is veryagreeable to silkscreen, am I correct?

Todd Slater: Yes, that's one of theways they advertise their product. It'sreally nice paper.

Paul Grushkin: Why is that papercritical to silkscreen? What is it aboutthe process about laying ink upon thatpaper that makes that paper useful?

Todd Slater: It's not that absorbent, sothe ink doesn't soak into the paper andget it wrinkled. It doesn't bleed verymuch; it holds ink very well. They have aSpeckletone paper that I really like; ithas such a nice texture. Good paper isimportant to achieving production

deadlines, actually. With good paperthat dries well, Steve can do an editionof 150 - 200, maybe two to three colors,in a single day, even if I sent him thefilms that morning.

Wilco Fire by Todd Slater

Paul Grushkin: Are you sending himthrough an FTP site?

Todd Slater: Yes, I either FTP him or Isend them directly through e-mail. Weboth have big e-mail accounts so wecan attach big files.

Paul Grushkin: That is such a changein the weather. Stainboy was telling mewhat he and Andy Stern at Diesel Fuelare doing now could not be achieved

otherwise.Todd Slater: Right. It makes things a loteasier. Hugely easier.

Paul Grushkin: So you say that youreditions are generally about 150 piecesnow?

Todd Slater: Yes. It was a 100 for along while, but I've been moving to 150.Hey, there's a demand (laughs). Got togo with the demand (laughs). But don't

get me wrong, I'm grateful there IS ademand.

Paul Grushkin: Your arrangement withthe club or the concert promoter and theband - are you seeking permission firstfrom the club owner or concertpromoter?


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Todd Slater: That's usually the way I doit, I usually go through the promoter. I'mdoing Neko Case and Luna at theBowery and the arrangement I have with

them now is that I'll give 50 posters ofthe 150, they can have those formerchandise to sell that night and thenthe other 100 are mine to sell to makeup printing and design cost.

Paul Grushkin: And the Bowery ofcourse will get a portion for posting.

Todd Slater: Yes, I send 25 to them forpromo and I send a digital file too forthem to print off, if they want to use that.

Guided by Voices Fire by Todd Slater

Paul Grushkin: Do you know in factthey're using the work for promo?

Todd Slater: Yes. There's that criticism,that concern. I read that a lot comingfrom artists and collectors - do thesethings ever get hung? I know when I do

posters for Dallas gigs, I hang some ofthem myself. I'm, say, two hours outsideof Dallas and I do check with the clubsand make sure that they're putting mypieces up, so people can see them. But,if you're going to do an edition of only150, then after the split to think thewhole city is going to be papered with

them, it's not going to happen. But thereare now key places where posters arealways posted, and people have learnedto expect to see them there. So I'm legit

(laughs).Paul Grushkin: On that point, one ofthe key criticisms expressed since themodern rock poster scene doubled, thentripled, then quadrupled, was made byChloe Lum from Seripop - a poster isn'ta poster until it's posted in a publicspace. It can't just be a digital filepassed among friends or seen only on awebsite. Even when we werecomposing ART OF MODERN ROCK,

the rule was that you had to send in theactual poster. Posters are physicalworks. If it's shown to the public publicly,it qualifies, just as it did in the BelleEpoch time of Toulouse Lautrec andCheret, or Stanley Mouse and RickGriffin in late '60s San Francisco, orJohn Van Hamersveld in Los Angeles orGary Grimshaw at the same time inDetroit.

Velvet Revolver by Todd Slater

Todd Slater: Good point, not to mentionthat posted posters are promotional foryou the poster artist, as well. They'relike giant business cards when you hang


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them up around a city. The goal has tobe, "I'm gonna be known as the Dallasposter guy."

Paul Grushkin: Are some of you're

editions now completely gone? Are theytruly collector's items now?

Todd Slater: Oh yes, I tried to archive10 for myself at the very beginning, butit just didn't happen. There were timeswhen I needed the money, and pretty-printed paper equalled money. Thereare a couple of posters where I mayhave only one or two left. It's trickycollecting modern rock posters in these

small editions. It's like you have tocultivate certain artists and be instantlyaware when they've issued a new piece.It's funny when pieces start at $25, andsuddenly the issue is gone. You can seewhy they'd be worth $100 or more,depending. And in ten years, or twentyyears, who can say?

Paul Grushkin: I was just at a show inSacramento and saw some of PaulImagine's pieces going for $200 - $300,

because they were the last ones of arun. The only ones left. If you love hiswork, that's what it's legitimately worth. Ithink Emek was the first of the modernday artists to understand this. He's beenvery consistent in holding to legitimateprices based on, initially, demand andthen in due course, scarcity.

Todd Slater: Right. There's a lot tolearn from the experience of the topartists, and from the marketplace itself.Jermaine Rogers had a quote in ARTOF MODERN ROCK about how theworth of something is exactly equal towhat a person is prepared to pay for it. Imean, what is a great, sold out, low-runJeff Kleinsmith poster worth, these

days? Close to $500, I should think.Probably more.

Paul Grushkin: On the other hand doyou think we'll get to the point where it's

no longer a $20 poster in the beginning,but more like a $30 or $40 poster?

Todd Slater: I would say yes if you'regoing to do something like Emek isdoing, where the production budget onthe poster is much bigger, which speaksto his amazing 3D posters. I believe ifyou're going to ask that, you're going tooffer something that merits more money.

Paul Grushkin: As you look around at

the best modern rock today, did youever imagine you'd be at the top of yourgame with the top bands?

Todd Slater: No [laughs]. No, I'd neverpictured that early on, as I was justsomeone who loved alternative rock.Maybe not until recently. Not to getahead of myself here, but the point ofbeing RIGHT THERE is that the bestbands are writing the songs and doingthe gigs, and you're making the posters.In a weird way, in these times, that'swhat you're being counted on to do. Imean the inspiration is the music itself.It's pretty much all there for listening andtaking the next steps as a graphic artist.If you don't know what to do for a band,go and listen to their music.


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Keane by Todd Slater

Paul Grushkin: I guess it goes like this:you pick up the CD, you go throughsome songs, you listen to what jumpsout and hopefully your drawing handtwitches.

Todd Slater: Right [laughs]. It's all inyour mind. You could hear a lyric andwhat comes to mind is maybesomething from your childhood, or whathappened a year ago just out of college,

and while it might not be the same thingWilco's Jeff Tweedy was thinking aboutwhen he wrote the lyric, it's ok - it's yoursingular thing that you're saying there,it's your idea for them. People shouldcheck out the approach Decoder Ringhas taken in doing their new ModestMouse series, which is their - the posterdesigners - interpretation of lines fromsongs, setting up the concept for theconcert posters.

Paul Grushkin: Do you feel that youcan remain in Texas and work out ofyour home or do you feel that somedayyou'll want to relocate?

Todd Slater: Because of the Internet,the world is electronic. I can work out ofmy home, wherever my home is.

Nevertheless, east Texas is east Texas,and maybe living in a bigger city, evenAustin, certainly Dallas, would provideadditional stimulation. I'd love one day to

live in New York. That would be mydream for sure, to live in New York.What you miss by not living in SanFrancisco or Seattle or New York arethe things going on everywhere aroundyou. Things you can see on weekendsor nights when you're not working - thethings that don't happen in small townsor smaller cities. It's that stimulationthing. You want to keep expanding yourbrain with the weirdest things

imaginable.

Green Day by Todd Slater


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Interview with StainboyBy Paul Grushkin

Produced by Michael Erlewine ()

Known to the world as "Stainboy,"Orlando's Greg Reinel is no mere posterartist -- he's an all-purpose offender.He's an accomplished ink-slinger, nowpublished exclusively by Andy Stern'sDiesel Fuel Prints, and (although lessfrequently now) plays guitar and howlsin his two-man band, Nutrajet.

Some say he's "the next Coop."Stainboy, who doesn't idolize rock stars,begs to differ. He's his own man, an

entertainer, a stage-meister as adept atpissing people off (and turning them on)with printed media as he is with two fistsof Gibson Les Paul guitars. Hedescribes himself as "unschooled,undisciplined, and unstoppable." Yet,he's the consummate professional inpreparing his posters for screenprinting.His line work leaves everyone gasping.He's Stainboy, not some cheapimitation.

I spoke with Stainboy over the phonelate one night, as he was busyunpacking a delivery from Diesel Fuel ofhis latest art print, a scorchingreplication of his own Mach 1 Mustang,complete with his requisite, trademark-like, hot chick.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: You sound likeyou're huffing and puffing. What's goingon?

STAINBOY: Unpacking boxes fromAndy at Diesel. Big boxes!

PAUL GRUSHKIN: Well that's a goodthing because that means you're sellingposters.

STAINBOY: Yes. A new batch ofposters ready for sale is always a goodthing.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: Congratulations.

STAINBOY: Well it means I get a littlebreak, talking to you.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: Let me start out byasking you, what's with the Stainboycover-up?

STAINBOY: It wasn't until two yearsago that I started using it as a penname. It's better than plain ol' GregReinel and people will remember it, likea Pushead or a Coop. Plus, I've thesignature to match anyone, anywhere.Oddly enough, it's actually the sameway

I sign "Reinel." I always sign "Reinel"that way with a big looped "I." I'vesigned that way since I was a kid. Thesignature makes the man, don't youknow?

PAUL GRUSHKIN: When you were akid, were you a scribbler?

STAINBOY: No, and I don't fillsketchbooks or folders. I approach myillustrations like I approach music. I don'tpractice-jam; when it's time to play, Iplay. When it's time to draw, I draw. I getthe idea and I'm off to the races. I'm likethat -- impulsive.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: Let's say that I'vegot a gig for you, the Melvins, orMotorhead, and I say, "Stainboy, this is

what's happening, this is the club, this isthe date, do your thing." Is what'simmediately in your minds eyesomething that leaps to the front, andthat's what you start pursuing?


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Sevendust by Stainboy

STAINBOY: Sometimes. SometimesI've got to think about it, like mySevendust poster. I've heard posterartists say, "I don't do bands that I don't

know." Why take on the job if you don'tknow the band? Well, it only takes anhour of research. I'm a quick study, andyou have to be to get the work. I didn'tknow much about Sevendust at first, butonce I looked at their site and listened tosome of their songs, that "How Does itFeel to Be the Enemy" line popped inand I happened to glance at my "DirtyHarry" lobby card against the wall. Iwent, "oh, ok," and if you look at the

Sevendust poster it's based around thewhole Dirty Harry movie poster thing.Good choice of material to work from,which made a good rock poster as aresult. I'll be honest here: I like thechallenge of learning about a band I'mnot familiar with, and actually pulling offa design that represents them well.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: In other words, whatyou're doing is you're carrying a lot ofpop culture reference items inside yourhead at all times. Things that you pickedup, like a blotter over the course of alifetime.

STAINBOY: Yes. One example is, I'vealways really been into the illustratedmovie poster. I like the look. I can'texplain it; it just gets me off.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: When you weregrowing up, did the Reinel's havepopular art hanging in their house?

STAINBOY: You mean my parents?

Yes, of course, but . . .. My dad is adesign engineer. Every year he'd betaking on a different project. One yearhe was designing a chopper trikemotorcycle and the next year he'd bedoing some optical illusion design piece.He once built a Popular Mechanic'ssubmarine. I wouldn't say my Dad hadlots of artistic background, but accuratedrawing was necessary for designengineering.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: But what's thedifference, if there is a difference,between drawing a car or a lady orphysically building something in 3-D. Isthere a difference?

STAINBOY: Actually, not much. My Dadcould draw well too, but he was alwaysmore mechanically inclined, whereas Ididn't pick up on that as a kid. I didn'tbecome mechanically inclined until later.

The thing I took from him is that if I needa part for something, I'm real goodfashioning that part out of what's onhand. Illustration is part engineering,too.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: Does your Dadrecognize your artistic skill?

STAINBOY: Yes, my parents alwayssupported my music and my graphic art.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: When did you do

your first poster, was it in junior high orhigh school?

STAINBOY: I actually made drawings ofthe teachers I disliked and made flyersof them, and put them out in the hall. Igot called in on that. They brought in myart teacher who really liked me at the


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time. Funny thing is, being that I drewmy whole life, I kind of slacked off in artclass thinking it was easy and he taughtme a lesson: he gave me an 'F' one

semester. But there he was, my artteacher in the office and they had all myschoolwork lined up next to these flyersI made and they were trying to compare'em. My art teacher looked at everythingand he said, "Nope, these aren't thesame." Whew! But those were my firstflyers.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: When did you firststart playing in a band?

STAINBOY: Early 1980's.PAUL GRUSHKIN: So, you were mainlyinfluenced by punk?

STAINBOY: Not just punk, all sorts ofstuff. '60s garage rock, rockabilly, '70sclassics, Sex Pistols. Cheap Trick.Whatever I thought was cool. I figuredplaying guitar would be easy and it didcome easy. Being in a band was just asnatural as picking up a pen. But I thinkaccess to the Internet has changed thedynamic of forming bands. People aren'tin it for the long haul. They're in, they'reout. Maybe there have always been ahundred thousand bands, but until theInternet, we never really were so awareof them. How can you keep track of itall? And is everyone making goodmusic?

Suicide Machines by Stainboy

PAUL GRUSHKIN: Now the Internetallows a poster artist to fall in love with anew band and make a poster for anevent sometimes thousands of miles

away from where he's living.STAINBOY: Right. I like that aspect, butit also does allow people to polish turds.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: Of course.

STAINBOY: Like me. (laughs). Well,hopefully not. I'm putting a lot of workinto making everything as good as I canmake it. A lot of people are making rockposters these days, so I'd better begood! Just look at each Flatstock; more

new artists every time.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: Andy Stern told mehe discovered you at the third Flatstock,in Seattle. That's when you drove outthere, all the way from Orlando, right?

STAINBOY: Yes, and I plan on drivingto the next one in Seattle too. Andycame up to me and said, "Is thereanybody publishing you?" I said no. Hegoes, "I am." It was as simple as that.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: What did you knowabout him at that point? Probably verylittle.

STAINBOY: No. Actually I remembertrying to get some stickers printed forNutrajet, and I think we contacted him.Later his website came up as a banneron gigposters.com, when he startedworking the 'Suicide Girls' thing. Then, Iremembered the name. I was familiar

that he was doing stickers for a lot ofdifferent bands. I just didn't know he wasdoing posters.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: Now there is somedifference between the two, betweenprinting stickers and printing posters --not to mention fine art prints. Why didyou go with Andy?


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STAINBOY: I'd been doing stuff for along, long time.you've seen my blackand white stuff, and you put some in theART OF MODERN ROCK book. I just

never had been screen printed. I waskind of giddy-like, "Wow, I'm finally goingto get some of my work silk screened."And then, after he did my firstSupergrass poster, and when I got mycopies, I was like, whoa. The man isseriously committed to excellence.

Supergrass by Stainboy

PAUL GRUSHKIN: Like you, his shopworks very comfortably -- andconfidently -- in large format.

STAINBOY: Right. It's one of thosehappy accidents. He's a great guy, easyto get along with. We've got a good dealgoing; we're fair with each other. Justlike all good things, it happenedsuddenly and for no special reason. Youcan't plan for things like that.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: Well, I thinksomething important happened betweenthe two of you with this Mach 1 Mustangposter.

STAINBOY: Yes, I'm going to do abunch of those this year if I can get thetime. It's new; it's a good new direction.I'm not complaining.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: Andy wouldn't bedoing them unless you both thoughtthere was a market, so if I'm correct, the

idea is to interest car owners just likeyou, all across the US?

STAINBOY: Yes, my idea is rooted inthe fact there are a lot of new-style gear-

heads out there. I don't really belong toany particular car club, but I'll go hangwith them at cruises. I'm sort of a weirdcar guy, in that I love the later musclecars, but I'm not one of those anal typeswho can take everything apart and swapengines. I just like the cars. I like thelook. I like the attitude. Besides which,there's just a lot of bad auto art outthere. I'm talking about art prints whichhave the Marilyn Monroe diner from the

'50s with a '60s car parked in front. Notright! And the Rat Fink hot rod thing hasbeen done to death and even though Ilove that, there's got to be a place for anew kind of semi-photo-realistic styledart with a modern, updated, screen-printed, money feel, and that's what I'mpioneering. The term for it is 'affordableauto art'.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: Right on.

STAINBOY: Lately, I've been thinkingabout this a lot. This could be a verycool series, if it's based on the moremodern muscle cars and some of themore obscure older ones that havecharacter and personality. People whoown these cars absolutely feast on 'em.From what I can tell, they're starving forart that plays into what they love. Since Idrive a Mach 1 Mustang myself, I knowI'm all hungry for merchandise like that.

So when I put some feelers out, like howabout I take on this project, people wereall for it. "Yeah do it, I'd buy one," that'swhat I heard. So I put my hand to it.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: Is it harder to drawa car than a beautiful woman?

STAINBOY: No, they're the same thing.


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PAUL GRUSHKIN: You just have tounderstand the curves and the angles?

STAINBOY: Same thing man, samething -- even the car designers would tell

you that.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: Do you draw from aphoto or do you have a picture alreadyin your mind's eye?

STAINBOY: Well some cars I know arelike women I know; they're permanentlyimprinted on your brain. You work withwhat's familiar, and what gets you off.My high school art classes first got meinto figure drawing. I liked the process

and the result. It came easy to me --which is not to say I had great technicalskill right from the beginning. It's just . . .I can sit down and the idea takes shape.I guess they call that talent. Sometimes Idon't need reference material;sometimes the idea needs some morecomplex thinking-through. I'm not scaredof reference material, but I don't want tobe dependent on it. Some of my earlierblack and white stuff had no references

per se, because I was too poor topurchase anything to use (likemagazines), so I'd just do it frommemory. But, when you're dealing withcars, you'd like to be accurate. I've got alot of 1/18 scale models, or if I know ofsomebody who has the car I'll go takepictures. With the Mach I Mustang, it'sout in my garage, so you could say thatwas nice and convenient.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: Describe yourprocess. Do you begin with severalroughs and approaches? Or is itbasically one rough and a particulardirection which turns into a more finerough, and sets up the inking?

STAINBOY: The artist Olivia and I workthe same way. I don't draw on paper. I

draw on see-through tracing paper. I runwith a particular idea and draw it out onthat tracing paper and I lay anotherpiece over it and make changes and

trace that, and finally when I have what Iwant, I just flip it over and trace that soI've got it on each side. Then I lay it onillustration board and I'll rub it onto theboard. The reason that I rub it on thereis so it's real light, it doesn't make anyindentations, and the brush can flowsmooth over the board.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: You've expressedgreat affection for the brush. How doesthe brush enhance your art?

STAINBOY: I haven't been using it aslong as people think. I've only beenusing it the last three or four years. Myolder stuff looks brushed see I wasstupid, for someone who's been drawingall his life I never knew how professionalillustrators worked. I thought those guyswere making brush lines with a pen.Everybody's like, "Greg, your brush workis really good," and I just didn't say

anything. Then when I started hearingguys like Coop saying they threw awaytheir pens and starting going with abrush, I thought, aha, that must be theway to do it. And so I did.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: How many piecesare you cranking out a month at thispoint?

STAINBOY: Usually two or three, but Iwant to keep it at one or two, so I cankeep the quality in it.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: Has it turned intoyour day job?

STAINBOY: Oh yes it has. I make myliving at it. I get orders from Europe andthe UK all the time now. Dealerseverywhere are buying my stuff. And


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now Andy's website is taking inconsistent business.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: The thing withposters -- well, art prints, really -- is to

get into stronger income-earning pricepoints. That can be done with larger-format pieces, which in your case wouldseem ideal, since you already "think big"as an illustrator.

STAINBOY: I'm actually drawing thembigger than the posters turn out to be!

PAUL GRUSHKIN: Really?

Flogging Molly by Stainboy

STAINBOY: When I posted that news,some guy said "it seems you're makinga lot of trouble for yourself if you'redoing them on separate boards."Sometimes I have to cut the drawings inhalf to take them to the next step. Timewas when I would lay on the floor doingillustrations, because it gave me

unlimited space, but that kills my back.So I work at a proper table now, but inthe way I draw in large format, evenspinning the board around for properangles is a pain in the ass.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: Why do you drawso big Greg?

STAINBOY: Because I've always drawnbig and I'm used to it. But also, whenyou're brushing it's really nice to get abig load of ink and let the brush freely

dictate within the space. You get goodline work that way because you have alot of room in which to move. You're notconstricted. If you're trying to move in asmall space, it isn't quite the same.When you've given yourself enoughspace, you can get real nice long lines,nice types of thin to thick lines. Thereare a lot of benefits to doing it my way.Plus, I have to say, it's nice to have thisreally big original artwork afterwards, to

sell to a collector. But the real point ofusing brushes and pens is by the end ofthe task you feel like you'veaccomplished something - somethingtangible - not just vector files on acomputer.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: Who would you sayare among your influences?

STAINBOY: Lindsey Kuhn, numberone. And, obviously, Frank Kozik. Their

posters were the first posters that I sawthat made me think, "who the fuck arethese guys?"

PAUL GRUSHKIN: I'd have thoughtyou'd single out only illustrators.

STAINBOY: There are a lot of peoplewhose work I like. Emek, for one. Iillustrate because I can and it's what Ilike best of all. If you look, there's a lot ofstuff where I do cut and paste too.Professionalism is what counts, andbeing all brash about your work. That'sLindsey, and Frank, and Emek. That'swhat I like about them. As a gigposterartist, my job is to represent the bands,get bodies in the door, and put my ownflash across in the process. If the wayI've said it visually counts for something,


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then there was a reason for me to putmy name at the bottom.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: So was NashvillePussy cool with the black chick and the

comb?

!P CP701675 "Nashville Pussy byStainboy"

STAINBOY: Nashville Pussy will tell youthat's the best Nashville Pussy posterever made. I was proud to hear themsay that. I love that band; they're great.One of the best rock bands around.They saw my stuff at Flatstock andrequested I do a poster. I was watching

Coffy one night and thinking, "NashvillePussy, they always have this southernredneck stuff associated with them,right? So, I'm going to do Pam Greer!!"

So I did this bad-ass black chick, and Idrew her with her legs spread and Iknew it was going to say Nashville onher one leg and then Pussy on theother. The thought of where to place thepick came at the end, and it was a greatflash, like, "I've got to put the blackpower pick right there, right in themiddle, right there above the pussy."And I did. It sold like hot cakes. In fact, Ithink that is my best poster.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: Well your WorldWar II bomber Motorhead poster was apretty great idea too.

STAINBOY: Thanks, but you knowwhat's funny about that Nashville Pussyposter? I thought absolutely nobody

would let me post that thing, but when Iwent around town everybody let me putit up.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: No kidding?

STAINBOY: No kidding. It was in everyshop in Orlando. There was one punkstore I went into, and I immediately saw

this mom and her two daughters and Ithought oh-oh, here we go, not cool, butthey just looked up at it after I'd posted itand they went, "that is so great." So

apparently times are changing.PAUL GRUSHKIIN: Not to mentionpeoples' new found appreciation forscreen prints.

STAINBOY: Screenprints are very coolone-of-a-kinds. That's what people arediscovering. It's not an exact process,screenprinting. Every poster in the run isdifferent, and that's what it's all about.That's what makes it great. I mean if you

want utter perfection with no spots orsmears, then go get a digital print made.But those digital prints have no soul!What's fun for me is going through theproduction stack and seeing all the littledifferences. Since Andy's shop is inPortland, obviously I can't be there tooversee the run but when I get my stackhere in Orlando, I go through the sameprocess every time -- I look at everyprint individually. I know it's boring at

times and it's a lot of work, but believe itor not, I spend hours looking at theentire set. I pick out what I think are thebest ones, not necessarily for the quality(because all of them are quality prints),but what I'm trying to do is find the onesthat look right. It's a completely personalthing.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: Andy told mesomething interesting. He said you'rethe one artist he can trust to give

finished art to his production staffwithout requiring much of his owninvolvement, and, although he's veryaware when it's running, he doesn'thave to hover over the press. Has hetold you that?


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STAINBOY: Yes. It was like severalprints in, and I was explaining that, bythe way I'd made a mask or somethingto handle a technical matter (I bounce

back between Photoshop and Illustratorbecause what I'm doing is basically likecutting rubylith only I'm doing it with .Tifffiles in Photoshop and it willautomatically update in Illustrator. It'skind of complicated, but it's easy forme), and I was telling him this in somedetail when he said, "Greg, I don't lookeven look at your stuff anymore, it's thattogether." So when he said that, it kindof frightened me, so now I like

quadruple check everything, so heshouldn't have to worry about checkingit.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: Do you send him afinished disk or is it all doneelectronically?

STAINBOY: Actually I just upload it allto his site.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: FTP it up there.

CP051002 " Supergrass by Stainboy"

STAINBOY: I started out with sendinghim disks, then got set up with the FTPthing. Which makes it really comfortable.He's in Portland; I'm in Florida, andthere's no fuss.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: What kind ofequipment do you work with?

STAINBOY: My little I-Mac. It was thefirst machine you could switch between

operating systems 9 and 10. I work in 9,because it's simple and I can makeadjustments there. I'll roam the net on10, but I'll do my work on 9 because allof my stuff is there. The hard part isscanning my boards on a standard sizeflatbed scanner.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: You've probably gotto do four or six scans since youroriginal art is created on such a largescale.

STAINBOY: Four and six is a good day!The drag racing girl (the SuicideMachines gigposter) was 16 differentscans because of the way the funnycar's top opened. But you do whateveryou have to do, pre-production-wise; ifyou want to work in large format, you'vegot to commit to cutting it up.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: That piece is one ofmy personal favorites. It just feels right.

STAINBOY: I grew up around dragracing.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: Were you an old-timey slingshot dragster fan or more of afunny car guy?

STAINBOY: All of it. My dad was aloose acquaintance of Don Garlits, sowe would get into the pits at the Floridadrags. Suicide Machines -- thinking ofwhat to do on that poster, drag racing

popped right into my head. I was like,"that's close enough for this band, afunny car is a suicide machine." I hadthe idea right off and so it was easy.


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MC5 by Stainboy

PAUL GRUSHKIN: So what comesnext? Are you going to do an AMX asthe next car art print?

STAINBOY: Either that or a MercuryCyclone. I just know I'm going to bedoing a lot of stuff this year. Nothingcomplicated. I ain't that witty. I reallywant rock posters to be my main thing. Iknow a lot of people see them asstepping stones to something bigge,rbut to me they're still the thing. I hearartists say chicks and hot rods are sodone; well, to some artists maybe, but I

still meet people every day for whomthat stuff is still new. I meet people allthe time who -- incredibly -- have yet todiscover Ed Roth's Rat Fink or a bigbreasted cartoon woman like what I do.That stuff is always new to somebody.That's the reason why it's popularculture. There's always the next kidcoming up to me at a show, and the firstthing he does after staring at the chick isrun his hand over one of my

screenprints, and he immediatelyunderstands it's different. My secondfavorite part is to get in my car -- I've gotmy postering route down solid -- and goaround making sure that my posters getput up. It's fun, because while I'mputting them up a little crowd gathersand they're just staring at this thing justlike it's a big statue of Christ or they'reseeing the Virgin Mary for the first time. Imean that's the effect my posters have. Iknow it and they know it. It's the realpay-off.

Dirtbombs by Stainboy


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Interview Diesel Fuel PrintsInterviewing Andy Stern

By Paul Grushkin

Produced by Michael Erlewine ()All eyes in the rock world are on AndyStern's Diesel Fuel Prints. Not only hasthis skillful printer every month - nowgoing on fourteen years - handleddozens of sticker and t-shirt jobs forbands across the country, he's activelyprinting and promoting the poster workof many top illustrators.

Quietly, beginning a little less than twoyears ago, he began to actively promote-- with the bands' involvement andapproval -- these artists' gig posters forresale through an artist--friendlypublishing program. And subsequentlyhe's helped create entire tour's worth ofindividual--gig posters for bands such asthe Melvins and Supersuckers (the latterin association with artist DarrenGrealish's direction), for the bands' ownsale at their gigs and subsequentlythrough the Diesel Fuel website.

Not since the early 1990's when PhilCushway's ArtRock presentedpublishing (distribution) opportunities toartists like Frank Kozik, Justin Hampton,Ward Sutton, and Alan Forbes (to nameonly a few) and Dennis King publishedJohn Seabury, has poster-publishingbeen talked about so actively. Now,established artists in the current -- andvery hot -- alternative and power-punk

scenes like Greg 'Stainboy' Reinel, JeralTidwell, Tara McPherson, and GuyBurwell are heading the Diesel program-- newly joined by Frank Kozik, MikeMartin, and others doing Diesel-published art prints.

I spoke with Andy about his roots, thenew directions, the challenges, and thepleasure he takes in producing beautifulscreen-printed art.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: Andy, exactly whatare you to Diesel Fuel? The owner,proprietor, president, general manager,CFO, and CEO?

ANDY STERN: I would be all of theabove.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: When did you beginat Diesel Fuel in earnest?

ANDY STERN: At the end of 1991. Iwas then living in Northern California,the Santa Rosa area, Sebastopol,actually. I had no job, I had to makemoney. I started going around to storesasking them if I could start printing theirstickers.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: You've always beena sticker kind of guy.

ANDY STERN: Mainly stickers, yes. I'vepersonally done a lot of work on vinyl,hand and automatic work on paper

products, and then branched off into pintglasses, a lot of cylindrical products,and, of course, t-shirts. My backgroundin silkscreen printing came out of homeprinting -- printing stuff for friends' bandsand stuff for myself.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: How old were youwhen you did your first screen print?

ANDY STERN: Fifth or sixth grade. Iwas living in Bethesda, Maryland.

Circumstances brought me and myfamily to Southern California and I livedthere for four years. What brought me toNorthern California was college. Butwhat attracted me to printing was that Ilove art, that's the bottom line, andprinting art was a great way for me toget free art.


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PAUL GRUSHKIN: Did your love ofmusic and your desire to do things forbands bring you into the commercialworld?

ANDY STERN: Actually when I firststarted Diesel Fuel, I didn't wantanything to do with bands becauseoftentimes they're such a pain in the buttto deal with. Not getting paid is a hardthing to deal with. I was mostly doingstuff for retail around town. I started outwith a "Mean People Suck" sticker.Funny, a lot of people thought "MeanPeople Suck" had something to do withGrateful Dead heads and jam band

fans. Not. One of my distributors, thisguy from Purple Moon Design, used tosell a lot of the stickers I printed on theDead tour and I think that's how all thehippies picked it up. The sloganoriginated from a San Francisco bandcalled NOFX. They have a song called"Mean People Suck" on their secondrecord. It was stickers like that -- retail,retail, retail -- up until about 1995 andthen I figured I had no idea what new

trends would be, so I started doingproduction work.

The Move to Portland

PAUL GRUSHKIN: Tell me about themove from Northern California toPortland. How did that come about?

ANDY STERN: The dot-com boom, Icouldn't afford rent anymore. I was sickof California and I thought I should getout while I could. I came to Portland fora delivery of a something like 1,000shirts. I liked Portland so much I decidedthen and there it was the place I wantedto move to.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: When you set upshop as Diesel Fuel Prints in Portland,

what kind of equipment did you haveimmediately?

ANDY STERN: Well, when we broughtall the equipment up from California, we

had two semi-automatic flatbedsticker/poster presses and one manualt-shirt press and a UV dryer and all theother accoutrements that go along withit.

Beastie Boys by Bobby Dixon

PAUL GRUSHKIN: So at that point you

were t-shirts and stickers, but really hadnot entered the world of screen-printedposter art.

ANDY STERN: Not really. I was doingsome posters for my friends' bands andmy brother's band, but I'd no ideapeople were going to be looking to buyrock posters! I think the first screen-printed poster I did . . . the first good oneI liked . . . was in 1996. We're talkingpost-punk hardcore here (my brothersband) and my band -- I played guitar --was straight-up old-school hardcore.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: The thing about therevolution in poster art is it didn't reallycome immediately after Kozik's high-point period of '92 - '96. There was thisseeming lull.


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And then in late 1999 and really inearnest by 2001, we began to see thisgreat resurgence in rock poster making.Did you feel the impact of

gigposters.com at about that time?ANDY STERN: I think the guys atStonerrock.com or the bass player ofNebula told me about it. I was like, "Whowants to talk on the Internet?" I neverlooked at it again until Darren.

Grealish told me about it. I came backon the Internet and looked at it for abouta month and then got all chatty like I amnow.

Faith & Love by Jerad Tidwel

PAUL GRUSHKIN: What's sointeresting, and surely ART OFMODERN ROCK had something to dowith it too, is that as we begin 2005,there's literally a whole new audience ofartists and customers looking at thebook, looking at gigposters.com, lookingat ClassicPosters.com, a whole newaudience to reach with something that'sobviously become a hot commodity --screenprinted rock posters. Some ofthem are picking up on your printing andthe art coming from your artist roster.

ANDY STERN: Definitely!

PAUL GRUSHKIN: Which I think is agood thing, in general because whatyou've evolved into is a publishingoperation for artists that you believe in.

ANDY STERN: Exactly!

PAUL GRUSHKIN: Tell me a little abouthow that came about, Andy.

ANDY STERN: About two years ago, atthis time, while we were on vacation,Grealish called me to get some postersprinted and he talked about this wholeposter deal where I get half and he getshalf and the band gets some and hebrought me in a whole bunch of gigs. I

was like sure, I like Beck, I like thisband, sure, I could sell some.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: Now in order to pullthat off you have to have a niceproduction run. Did you set your sightson 300-400 or did you have to set yoursights on a 1,000 pieces to

ANDY STERN: No, then we were doingabout 200-250, now we've upped themto 400 - 500. The band always gets

20%.PAUL GRUSHKIN: And that meansthey can distribute them, they can putthem up on their walls or they couldeven throw them away if they wanted to.

Diesel Fuel Gallery Show

ANDY STERN: The can do anythingthat want to with them. It's our hope thatthey sell them and make some money,then come back to us for anotherone.Article:


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PAUL GRUSHKIN: I'm sure you securepermission from all the bands involvedin order to pull off this publishingprogram.

ANDY STERN: We always try to getpermission from the band. If not, thenwe have permission from the venue orfrom the promoter. We never doanything without permission from thevenue, the promoter, or the band.Recently we've been talking a lot hand-in-hand with band management.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: I'd imagine theMelvins series was done both with the

permission and involvement of the band.

ANDY STERN: Exactly, both theMelvins series and the Supersuckersseries were done with the directcooperation of the bands. We'rehopefully going to be doing many newtour series of gig posters -- but I don'thave all the details yet.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: Now that means,

Andy, when you're looking at doing aseries of pieces for a band, theopportunity is to take a particular tourand then match poster artists to that tourand see what comes?

ANDY STERN: Basically.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: Basically?

ANDY STERN: Usually I wouldn't picksomeone who draws pretty flowers for aCramps poster. After the Melvins thing,

I'm never doing an open call for artistsever again, that was just a nightmare.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: Is that becausewhat you got back from them in somecases wasn't entirely representative ofwhat the Melvins are?

ANDY STERN: Luckily just aboutanything could be representative of whatthe Melvins are.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: Now it's funny that

we're talking about the same thing.When Dennis King and I were doingART OF MODERN ROCK, the samecriteria applied. Each poster had to havea visceral appeal. It had to leap out atyou and say, "I'm a great poster."

My Morning Jacket by Guy Burwell

ANDY STERN: Exactly. And becauseI'm the one putting up the resources, Ihave to determine if something's in orout. I have to apply some kind of criteria.And, I have to sell the damn thing.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: Have you had tosay no to an artist whose submittedwork wasn't up to snuff?

ANDY STERN: I haven't yet, but I'vejust decided that I'll being doing that ifI'm not really into a poster.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: Now you have avery established shop and there aren'tthat many commercial shops within ourworld that we speak of, Drowning Creekbeing the obvious other one, maybePatent Pending being another. Yourshop exists on the basis of stickers and

t-shirts, but you're now commandingpress time within your own shop for thispublished series.

ANDY STERN: Since we've moved uphere, we've gotten two more presses tohandle the vinyl sticker printing and theposters. So now we have four flat-bed


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presses and hopefully will get another.These are all semi-automatic machines.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: Are you using aparticular manufacturer that you think is

particularly good for this work?

ANDY STERN: For posters, it's not abig deal, as you can use an older press,and with air-drying inks the tolerancesaren't as high. For the vinyl I have to usehigher-end presses usually Saturn M&Requipment.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: Is that because theregistration on vinyl is harder to achievewithout a real technically adapt press?

Rev. Horton Heat by Jerad Tidwell

ANDY STERN: Well registration isn't somuch the issue; it's rather a squeegeecontrol issue, along with the inks we'velearned are best to use for stickers.Sticker printing is just a lot moretechnical.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: The equipmentthat's devoted to the postersthemselves, have you modified it tomake it better for poster purposes?

ANDY STERN: Not at all. It workedperfect, right from when we first got it.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: Do you generallyhave one print technician working theposter press?

ANDY STERN: I have one guy who

works 5 days a week just doing posters,about a poster a day.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: And that means thatonce you've burned the screens and sethim up, he's responsible for the pile ofblank paper feeding into the press andprinting the entire run.

ANDY STERN: All I have to do is proofeverything! He brings me every colorproof for my inspection, and Nathan, my

art guy, mixes all the ink.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: After DarrenGrealish, which artists did you beginworking with? Jeral Tidwell?

ANDY STERN: Yes, and Stainboy GregReinel. I hooked up with him right afterFlatstock 3 in Seattle. The minute I sawhis stuff, I told him I'd print anything hewanted.

Sheryl Crow by Jerad Tidwell

PAUL GRUSHKIN: So the firstFlatstock that you attended was Austin(Flatstock 2)?


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ANDY STERN: Yes. I would have goneto the first one in San Francisco, butinitially, at that time, I was like, "who'sgoing to buy a rock poster? Those

things are dead."PAUL GRUSHKIN: So what changedyour mind?

ANDY STERN: Just doing a fewposters. I started liking it; it was a funthing to do. It actually brought the funback into the screenprinting business. Iwas so sick of doing production work. Iwas missing that kind of fun.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: Do you see yourself

at the forefront of a kind of populistexplosion? If we're talking about goingfrom fundamentally production work toartistic output where you're actuallyworking creative deals with posterartists, bands, club owners and evenyourself in order to create a run of 300-400 of which a portion goes to the band,a portion goes to the poster artist andthen you have the opportunity to sell thebalance, I mean this is all pretty recent

stuff.ANDY STERN: Yes. Yes, it is, definitelynew territory.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: And the questionagain is: do you see yourself at the frontof what we're calling a populistexplosion?

ANDY STERN: I'm not sure really. Iknow it's going on everywhere now, allacross the country. Amazing. Even just

a few years ago, who would havethought? Yet I still look at it as a hobby,kind of. Maybe it helps me keepeverything in perspective, but I still lookat the whole world of rock posters as ahobby, a really cool hobby, but notexactly a business. Yet, it gets bigger

every day and it's helping support meand seven other people at the shop. It'snot our key source of income, but it'sincreasing.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: You wouldn't be inthe position you're in -- that of asuccessful publisher -- unless, numberone, there was an enormous body ofposter artists cranking out great things,and number two a resurgent interestfrom the collectors' standpoint.

ANDY STERN: Yes, I think a lot ofpeople see me at the forefront of thiswhole deal. Just dumb luck I suppose,

having the right resources there at theright time. Remember I've got stickersand t-shirts that pay for everything, and Iwas able to publish 175 posters beforereally selling anything. Now of courseI'm concerned to put in the energy thatmakes it a good investment.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: In your particularcase have you invented an output codefor your series, like Phil Cushway didwith his PCL's?

ANDY STERN: Not yet, not exactly.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: So they're basicallyunder the copyright of the artist, but thepublishing deal allows you to sell off abalance portion. But there are no seriesnumbers.

ANDY STERN: Exactly, all it says onthere is "printed by Diesel Fuel Prints." Itdoesn't have some crazy weird stocknumber. Once I get into that, won't that

take all the fun out of it?

PAUL GRUSHKIN: On the other hand,you don't want to create an acre ofprinted pieces you can't track. So howdo you sell your portion, and what is thecommunity that's buying them?


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ANDY STERN: Right now we're doingreally well with Internet sales. Thecommunity that is buying them I'm notsure really, I'm assuming that it's mostly

young kids. People who are supportingall the new music -- metal, punk,alternative, whatever. I'm hoping we canbegin wholesaling to record stores in thenext six months. I'd love it for people tobe able to see them up on the wall.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: When you're doinga production run when you'recommitted to doing a certain number ofpieces with Stainboy on a particularpiece, lets go with, say, one of his

'Flogging Molly' pieces, and you've got abalance quantity sitting in your flat filesor on racks. You as a publisher have tobe pretty concerned that the pile startsto work itself down on a regular basis.Otherwise you're going to get stuck withan acre of paper.

ANDY STERN: But you know what,some things just aren't going to sell, nomatter how good they look, they're just

not going to sell. The really good sellerskind of make up for the bad sellers.Sometimes it's just a matter of timebefore the sales come.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: You know who saidthat to me last was Kozik.

ANDY STERN: And he told me thesame thing too! That's why I have to putit in some perspective even while I'mthinking, "God, we're never going to sellthose." Even with Tara McPherson'swork, there are a few things that justdon't move very fast, but the rest of it . .. hey, we're selling out of some Taraprints in less than two months. So if onlytwo out of ten don't sell so good, well,that's not so bad. Ten out of ten isasking the impossible, except I couldn't

tell you going in to a particular art pieceof hers if it was going to be one of thetwo slow movers. I just think to myself,"it's all good. I made a choice to publish

it."PAUL GRUSHKIN: Now in order to pullthis off, you have to have a fulfillmentoperation. Do you have people who dothat in-house for you as well?

ANDY STERN: Yes we do.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: So you have staffwho wrap the purchased print in brownpaper, uses a heavyweight tubes, sealthe ends properly, addresses it carefully,

and all that.

ANDY STERN: You've got it.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: That's the wholetedious part of being in the publishingbusiness.

ANDY STERN: It's insane! Business issuch that I've been running around forthe last four days trying to tighten up thewhole back end process of the retail andthe wholesale area. People get upset

when they're waiting to get posters theybought.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: And that meansyou're interacting with the public andinevitably you're going to get a fewpeople who say their tube arrived bentor the poster wasn't what they thought itwould be.

ANDY STERN: Luckily we haven'tgotten anybody thinking the poster

wasn't what they thought it would be andluckily we ship everything UPS insured.So as long as it isn't a sold-out run, youcan call us up to track your purchase. Ifit's lost for good, we'll deal with theinsurance and send a replacement.


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PAUL GRUSHKIN: Now when you wereworking with the Melvins series and theSupersuckers before that, were youaware how complex it is to do an entire

series of posters?ANDY STERN: Can you believe I hadabsolutely no idea?

PAUL GRUSHKIN: Would you do itagain?

ANDY STERN: Oh definitely, I'mworking on a few others; Ttere are a fewbig ones that we're hoping to get thisyear.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: And you were ableto begin a subscription series as well,this past year, where people were ableto pre-order an entire set.

ANDY STERN: Yes, we did that for theSupersuckers. We haven't done that forthe Melvins yet. I wanted to fulfill theSupersuckers set as a group, but peoplewere waiting like nine months to getthem, and that is just wrong. So thistime we're waiting until I have the boxes

and the complete sets in my hands.When I've got them, people can placeorders. They can reserve them beforehand, but I won't take any money.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: How many posterswent into the Supersuckers series?

ANDY STERN: That was 15 differentposters and the Melvins was 41 differentposters.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: So, if I were a

customer looking to purchase Melvinsposters today, the more modern posterswould be coming out of the Diesel Fuelarray?

ANDY STERN: At least from 2004 on.We'll probably continue working with

them from here on out, in some shapeor form.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: I was reallyimpressed, Andy, with the array of

artists that you brought in for theMelvins run. Was that your first opencall?

ANDY STERN: That was a big, bigopen call and I chose from about 150people.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: And whittled it downto forty?

ANDY STERN: Forty with maybe anoption to go to forty two, yes. And wegot some great names involved: JayRyan, Emek, Mike King, Dan Grzeca,Print Mafia, Patent Pending (JeffKleinsmith's shop), Chloe and Yannick'sSerigraphie Populaire, Squad 19, CaseyBurns, Heads of State, Jeral Tidwell,Clay Ferguson, Guy Burwell, and LittleFriends of Printmaking, to name onlysome.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: In your business,

whether to do a single piece or acollection of forty two, you have to keepyou eyes open for new talent, like, allthe time.

ANDY STERN: I'm still surprised somany top-quality artists are doinggigposters.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: What are youlooking for?

ANDY STERN: Imagination, mostly.

Either I see a poster having reallyterrible qualities or having reallyamazing qualities. That tells me aboutthe artist. I let the poster speak first.


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Shins by Tara McPherson

PAUL GRUSHKIN: And TaraMcPherson's and Stainboy's postershave to been among the first.

Stereolab by Tara McPherson

ANDY STERN: Well, when Tara cameinto the program, the first pieces I didwere in trade for prints, or for herpaintings. Soon we did 'Built to Spill', thebig one with the merry-go-round. Thatgot me a painting, luckily. Supergrass

was the next one we published of hers.

Death Cab for Cutieby Tara McPherson

PAUL GRUSHKIN: Right, that's withballoons above. And then the Shinscame after that, which was her greathorizontal piece with its central figuredragging the dead balloon-characterbehind. What attracted you to TaraMcPherson's work?

Supersuckers by Tara McPhersonANDY STERN: It's really different, andshe's really nice. I only work with peoplebecause I like someone or I really liketheir art. If I like someone's art, but don'tlike them, well, I won't work with them.


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PAUL GRUSHKIN: In other words, as aproduction person, as a head of apublishing company, the word 'difficult'comes into mind. The person may be a

great artist, but if they're difficult tocollaborate with, it just slows down youroperation and gives you headaches.

ANDY STERN: Yeah, then I become astress case, and you don't need 'that'trouble. Printing and fulfillment are hardenough!

PAUL GRUSHKIN: Tell me about yourrelationship with Greg Reinel, Stainboy.

ANDY STERN: I met him and got along

great. Told him that I'd print anythingthat he wanted to do.

PAUL GRUSHKIN: Is that because yousaw in him that Coop popularism theability to draw figures so easily and well,to automatically have great appeal?

ANDY STERN: I liked his it wasCheap Trick's black and white posteris that the one with the geisha girl on it?

PAUL GRUSHKIN: Yes.

ANDY STERN: And then there wasanother one, there were two black andwhite posters that I really

classic posters interview book two

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