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1

2

3 DEPARTMENT OF CONSERVATI ON AND

4

5 NATURAL RESOURCES

6

7 ADVI SORY BOARD

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15 MAY 22, 2004

16

17 GULF STATE PARK LODGE

18

19 9: 00 a. m.

20

21

22

23

Tayl or Report i ng * 251. 248. 2108

PO Box 369 * Rept on, AL 36475Sout heast U. S. Coverage * Speci al i zi ng i n Dai l y Copy

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1 A P P E A R A N C E S

2 DCNR ADVI SORY BOARD MEMBERSHI P:

3

4 Dan L. Moul t r i e - Chai r man Present

5 Dr . Gai nes Smi t h Present

6 Ross M. Sel f Present

7 M. Barnet t Lawl ey Present

8 Loui s W. Col es Present

9 Dr . A. Wayne May Pr esent

10 J ames W. Por t er , I I Pr esent

11 Bi l l Hat l ey Pr esent

12 J ohnny M. J ohnson Pr esent

13 W. Gr ant Lynch Pr esent

14 Mar vi n Wi l l i s Pr esent

15 Geor ge Harbi n Pr esent

16

17 STAFF MEMBERS:

18 Robi n Nummy

19

20

21

22

23



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1 I NDEX

2 Page

3 Cal l t o Or der - Chai r man Moul t r i e 4

4 I nvocat i on - J ohnny J ohnson 4

5 I nt r oduct i on of Boar d Member s 5

6 Commi ss i oner M. Barnet t Lawl ey

7 Appr oval of Mi nutes of Last Meet i ng

8 Depar t ment al Repor t s

9 By Commi ss i oner Lawl ey

10 Br eak

11 Publ i c Hear i ng

12 Lunch Br eak

13 Pr oposed Regul at i ons

14 A. ) Mar i ne Resour ces

15 B. ) Mar i ne Pol i ce

16 C. ) Wi l dl i f e and Freshwat er Fi sher i es

17 Sel ect i on of Dat e and Locat i on of

18 Spr i ng Advi sor y Boar d

19 Adj our n

20 Cour t Repor t er Cer t i f i cat e

21

22

23



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1 GULF SHORES, ALABAMA; SATURDAY, MAY 22, 2004

2 9: 00 A. M.

3

4 - - -

5

6 P R O C E E D I N G S

7

8 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: I ' d l i ke t o

9 cal l t he meet i ng t o or der . Thi s

10 convenes t he Depar t ment of

11 Conser vat i on and Natural Resour ces

12 Advi sor y Boar d Meet i ng. I ' d l i ke t o

13 wel come you t o Gul f Shores. I t ' s

14 ni ce t o be here t oday.

15 We wi l l have t he i nvocat i on by

16 Mr . J ohnny J ohnson.

17 MR. J OHNSON: Let us pray.

18

19 ( Pr ayer )

20

21 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: Thank you,

22 Mr . J ohnson.

23 For t he next order of busi ness,



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1 I ' l l cal l Mr . Bar net t Lawl ey t o

2 i nt r oduce t he member s of t he board.

3 MR. LAWLEY: Thank you. I f you

4 woul d j ust r ai se your hand as your

5 name i s cal l ed so t hey wi l l know who

6 you are.

7 Chai r man Dan Moul t r i e.

8 Ross Sel f .

9 Loui s Col es.

10 Dr . Wayne May.

11 J i m Por t er .

12 Bi l l Hat l ey.

13 J ohnny J ohnson.

14 Gr ant Lynch.

15 Mar vi n Wi l l i s.

16 Geor ge Harbi n.

17 Dr . J ames Smi t h, ex- of f i ci o

18 member f r om Opp.

19 Thank you.

20 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: Thank you.

21 The next order of busi ness. Ar e

22 t her e any cor r ect i ons t o t he mi nut es

23 of t he March 6th, 2004 advi sor y board



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1 meet i ng mi nut es? I f not , t he mi nut es

2 st and approved as r ead.

3 The next or der of busi ness wi l l

4 be t he depar t ment al r epor t s. I ' d

5 l i ke t o cal l f or Mr . Lawl ey t o

6 i nt r oduce t he depar t ment s.

7 Commi ss i oner ?

8 MR. LAWLEY: Ever ybody has a

9 di vi si on r epor t i n your packet t hat

10 t he f i ve di vi si ons have pr epar ed.

11 We' r e goi ng t o f or ego t hi s r epor t at

12 t hi s t i me as t hey al l gave a r eport

13 at t he l ast meet i ng. The makeup of

14 t he di vi si ons has not changed any but

15 i t i s i n your packet . I f you have

16 any quest i ons f or me I woul d be happy

17 t o answer t hem. But you wi l l be

18 hear i ng f r omeach of t hese peopl e

19 l at er as we get i nt o t he r egul at i ons.


21 Commi ss i oner .

22 We have a r ecess but we won' t

23 t ake t hat . We have sor t of gone on



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1 t hr ough t hat pr et t y qui ckl y.

2 The next order of busi ness i s t he

3 publ i c hear i ng.

4 Robi n, do we have t he l i st of

5 peopl e yet ?

6 We wi l l st and at ease f or j ust a

7 mi nut e. Let me see i f I can f i nd

8 Robi n and get t hat l i st .

9 I mi nut e she says.

10 MR. LAWLEY: Let me t el l you al

11 about a pi ece of l egi sl at i on, why at

12 t hi s t i me i t wasn' t on our l i st t hat

13 we di d get passed t hi s sessi on. What

14 i t does, as you know, we have a

15 hunt er educat i on cour se i n t he st at e

16 but we' r e - - t hat you' r e r equi r ed t o

17 t ake bef ore you buy a hunt i ng

18 l i cense. Wel l , what t hi s l egi sl at i on

19 i s was al l ow t he mi l i t ar y, f or t hei r

20 t r ai ni ng, t o subst i t ut e our

21 Hunt er Saf et y Cour se i n Al abama so

22 t hey coul d buy a hunt i ng l i cense.

23 I t al so al l ows t he mi l i t ar y



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1 st at i oned i n Al abama on act i ve dut y

2 t o be abl e t o buy a st ate hunt i ng

3 l i cense at t he r esi dent r at e.

4 And Al abama r esi dent s who ar e on

5 act i ve dut y but home on l eave, we' r e

6 goi ng t o al l ow t hei r l i cense t o ser ve

7 - - I mean, t hei r l eave paper s t o

8 serve as a l i cense f or t he t i me her e

9 i f t hey want t o par t i ci pat e.

10 We t hi nk i t ' s somet hi ng t hat

11 shoul d be done. I t ' s cer t ai nl y r i ght

12 t o do t hat f or t he sacr i f i ces t hat

13 t hese peopl e are maki ng f or us.

14 And i f you haven' t r ead about i t

15 and you di dn' t know about i t , we' r e

16 pret t y proud of i t and we want ed t o

17 shar e t hat wi t h you.

18 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: Agai n, we' r e

19 t aki ng a shor t br eak whi l e wai t i ng on

20 t he l i st of al l of t he speaker s.

21 For anyone t o addr ess t he Chai r s,

22 agai n whi l e speaki ng, we wi l l have no

23 i nt err upt i on dur i ng anybody' s spoken



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1 t i me of t al ki ng. And any mot i ons

2 need t o be wr i t t en out and handed t o

3 t he Chai r .

4

5 ( Long pause)

6

7 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: The next

8 or der of busi ness i s t he publ i c

9 hear i ng. When you hear your name

10 cal l ed pl ease come t o t he mi cr ophone

11 and gi ve your name and t he subj ect

12 you wi sh t o speak about .

13 I r emi nd you agai n, you may onl y

14 speak at your t i me and any

15 i nt er f er ence wi t h a speaker wi l l not

16 be t ol er at ed.

17 Fi r st I ' d l i ke t o cal l Roger

18 Gui l i an f r om Mobi l e.

19 MR. GUI LI AN: Thank you, Mr .

20 Chai r man. I appr eci ate t he

21 oppor t uni t y t o speak here t hi s

22 morni ng. I speak on - -

23 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: I s your



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1 mi cr ophone on?

2 Ther e we go.

3 MR. GUI LI AN: Thank you, Mr .

4 Chai r man. I appr eci at e t he

5 oppor t uni t y t o speak here t hi s

6 morni ng.

7 I ' m her e t o speak about t he

8 pr oposed ban on t r awl i ng i n t he

9 Mobi l e Bay ar ea. I ' m her e on behal f

10 of Mobi l e Count y Wi l dl i f e and

11 Conservat i on Associ at i on. I speak on

12 behal f of t he 1200 member s of NCWCA.

13 As you may know, t he NCWCA i s t he

14 ol dest conser vat i on associ at i on i n

15 Al abama, f ounded i n 1934. I t i s

16 commi t t ed t o t he preser vat i on,

17 r est orat i on and enhancement of t he

18 wi l dl i f e habi t at and nat ur al

19 r esour ces i n Mobi l e and t he

20 sur r oundi ng areas f or t he t housands

21 of ci t i zens who enj oy i t on a

22 r ecr eat i onal basi s and f or many other

23 r easons.



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1 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: Roger , bef or e

2 you st ar t , can everyone hear t he

3 speaker al l r i ght ? I s t her e anybody

4 t hat can' t ?

5 Okay. Go ahead.

6 MR. GUI LI AN: Thank you.

7 Br i ef l y, Mr . Chai r man, I ' l l t r y not

8 even t o use al l of my t i me i n t he

9 i nt er est of br evi t y her e t hi s

10 morni ng.

11 The Mobi l e Count y Wi l dl i f e

12 Conservat i on Associ at i on does, i n

13 f act , suppor t t he ban on t r awl i ng i n

14 t hese areas f or sever al r easons. Two

15 chi ef l y.

16 Number one, we f eel t hat i t i s

17 benef i ci al t o t he nat ur al habi t at ,

18 t he wi l dl i f e habi t at , i n t hi s ar ea.

19 A ban on t r awl i ng woul d chi ef l y

20 benef i t nur ser i es and st agi ng ar eas

21 f or shr i mp and ot her wi l dl i f e

22 habi t at , mar i ne wi l dl i f e habi t at , i n

23 t hose areas.



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1 I f t hey are l ef t re l at i vel y

2 undi st ur bed t hese nur ser i es can gr ow

3 and t hr i ve.

4 I t i s wel l document ed t hat

5 basi cal l y most , i f not al l , mar i ne

6 l i f e i n t hese areas spend some per i od

7 of t i me dur i ng t hei r l i f e cycl e i n

8 t hese est uar y ar eas, whet her i t ' s

9 br eedi ng, nur si ng, st agi ng or

10 what - have- you. These are ver y vi t al

11 ar ea t o t he mar i ne wi l dl i f e habi t at .

12 We f eel t hat i f t hi s ar ea i s l ef t

13 r el at i vel y undi st ur bed t hat t hat wi l l

14 l ead t o t he enhancement of t he mar i ne

15 wi l dl i f e habi t at . Bet t er nur ser i es,

16 bet t er st agi ng areas means a

17 enl ar ger , heal t hi er and basi cal l y

18 mor e anat omi cal and mor e val uabl e

19 shr i mp i s good f or t he i ndust r y.

20 I t ' s al so good f or t he envi r onment .

21 And we bel i eve i t ' s i n t he publ i c' s

22 best i nt er est t o conserve t hese

23 ar eas.



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1 We are cer t ai nl y not

2 ant i - busi ness. We ar e not

3 ant i - gr owt h. We' r e not

4 ant i - i ndust r y. But we f eel t hat a

5 good bal ance i s i n order her e.

6 And t hese areas deser ve t o be

7 l ef t undi st ur bed so t he shr i mp can

8 gr ow l ar ger and be heal t hi er . And at

9 t he end of t hat , t hey' r e goi ng t o be

10 more val uabl e.

11 Ther e' s a di r ect cor r el at i on and

12 di r ect posi t i ve cor r el at i on bet ween

13 t he number of days wher e t hese ar eas

14 wi l l be cl osed and t he shr i mp t hat

15 woul d be abl e t o t hr i ve i n t hese

16 ar eas. The shri mp har vest ul t i mat el y

17 woul d be l arger and t her ef or e mor e

18 val uabl e.

19 The second i ssue t hat we f eel i s

20 ver y i mport ant , Mr . Chai r man, i s t he

21 i ssue of by- cat ch. You' r e f ami l i ar

22 wi t h t hi s, I ' m sur e. And t her e ar e

23 t ons and t ons and t ons and bi l l i ons,



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1 i f not mor e, of by- cat ch t hat ar e

2 dest r oyed and ul t i mat el y di scarded

3 every year because of shr i mpi ng.

4 I t ' s been est i mated up t o t en pounds

5 of by- cat ch i s caught and di scar ded

6 f or every one pound of shr i mp. Fi g

7 f i sh, bai t f i sh, ot her t hi ngs t hat

8 ar e vi t al t o t he ecosystem and t he

9 chai n ar e t aken up i n t hese net s.

10 And a l i t t l e r est r ai nt now at t he

11 stat e l evel , vol unt ar i l y, wi l l do

12 everyone on bot h si des a wor l d of

13 good down t he r oad.

14 As you probabl y know, t he l aw

15 r equi r es by- cat ch r educt i on. Feder al

16 l aw and st ate l aw r equi r e by- catch

17 r educt i on. And i f we t ake some mi nor

18 st eps now t o have some r easonabl e

19 r est r ai nt at t hi s l evel , we can st ave

20 of f pot ent i al f eder al i nt er vent i on.

21 And i t woul d be ver y easi l y

22 accommodat ed, r egul at or y schemes t hat

23 f eder al r egul at i ons br i ng down.



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1 By r educi ng by- cat ch now we can

2 st ave of f any t ype of f eder al

3 i ntervent i on and we woul d be doi ng

4 bot h si des a wor l d of good because we

5 woul d gover n our sel ves as opposed t o

6 wai t i ng unt i l i t get s out of cont r ol

7 and t he f ederal si de has t o come i n.

8 Mi ni mal ef f or t now woul d prevent many

9 pr obl ems l at er .

10 We f eel t hat i t ' s r easonabl e t o

11 t ake some st eps at t hi s poi nt on a

12 smal l er basi s and a smal l er scal e

13 t han have someone el se come i n and do

14 i t f or us .

15 Obvi ousl y, any t ype of cl osur e

16 scheme woul d be open t o r egul at or y

17 r evi ew on a r egul ar basi s, whether

18 i t ' s ever y coupl e of year s or more

19 sooner - - excuse me, or sooner . I t

20 woul dn' t be a f i nal t hi ng. I t

21 woul dn' t be anyt hi ng wher e: Okay,

22 now t hi s i s cl osed and t hat ' s t he end

23 of i t . I t woul d come up f or r evi ew.



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1 And i f i t ' s not ef f ect i ve, i f i t ' s

2 not wor ki ng, i f i t ' s

3 di spr opor t i onat el y hur t i ng t he

4 i ndust r y, but not r eal l y hel pi ng,

5 t hen t hat coul d up f or r evi ew.

6 But t he NCWA f eel s t hat i t i s a

7 good i dea t o ban t r awl i ng i n t hese

8 areas because of t he damage t o t he

9 wi l dl i f e and t he damage t o t he

10 sur r oundi ng habi t at i s somethi ng more

11 - - l et me back up.

12 I t ' s di spr opor t i onat e t o t he

13 val ue of what i s har vest ed t her e.

14 We' r e cer t ai nl y not ant i - busi ness.

15 We' r e cer t ai nl y not t r yi ng t o keep

16 peopl e f r om maki ng a l i vi ng.

17 We f eel t hat - - we f eel i t ' s our

18 r esponsi bi l i t y t o be st ewar ds of t he

19 nat ur al r esour ces i n t he Mobi l e

20 County area. We f eel t hat we' r e

21 borr owi ng f r omour chi l dr en and our

22 gr andchi l dr en and we woul d l i ke t hem

23 t o be t her e and t o be heal t hy.



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1 Thank you, Mr . Chai r man, f or your

2 t i me.


4 Mr . Gui l i an.

5 Next I ' d l i ke t o r ecogni ze our

6 f ormer Commi ssi oner , Ri l ey Smi t h.

7 And I ' d l i ke t o wel come Ri l ey and

8 br i ng Ri l ey t o t he mi cr ophone now,

9 pl ease.

10 MR. SMI TH: I ' ve got somethi ng.

11 Good mor ni ng ever yone. Thank you f or

12 your t i me.

13 I am her e r epr esent i ng t he Mobi l e

14 Chapt er of t he Coast al Conser vat i on

15 Associ at i on. Regardi ng t he pr oposed

16 per manent shr i mp cl osure of t he

17 upper , west ern and some par t s of t he

18 bay.

19 Cl osur e i mpl i es t hat you' r e

20 t aki ng somet hi ng away. I don' t t hi nk

21 we' r e t aki ng anythi ng away her e. I f

22 at al l , we' r e t aki ng away an ar ea

23 t hat has been dr agged f or years. But



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1 what we' r e want i ng - - what we' r e

2 doi ng i s we' r e at t empt i ng t o save a

3 habi t at f or t he pi nf i sh, f or t he

4 j uveni l e pi nf i sh, and f or t he shr i mp.

5 Thi s i s wher e t hey gr ow. Thi s i s

6 wher e t hey - - t hey' r e - - t hey' r e

7 goi ng t o come out - - we' r e not goi ng

8 t o l ose t he f i sh. We' r e not goi ng t o

9 l ose t he shr i mp. They' r e ul t i mat el y

10 comi ng out of t hi s ar ea bi gger .

11 They' l l be wort h mor e i f t hi s works.

12 And i t has been somethi ng t hat ' s been

13 pr oposed t o be st udi ed.

14 I f t hi s works t hen t hese gr ass

15 beds wi l l come back. I t wi l l bet t er

16 f or , agai n t he j uveni l e f i sh and t he

17 shr i mp.

18 I t wi l l be bet t er f or t he

19 cr abbers because t hey' l l have a pl ace

20 t hat t hey don' t have any conf l i ct

21 wi t h ot her f ol ks.

22 We suppor t t hi s. I suppor t i t .

23 I t hi nk i t ' s t he t hi ng t o do. I



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1 don' t t hi nk i t ' s goi ng t o hur t anyone

2 i n anyway. And what ' s up t her e wi l l

3 come down t he bay. The har vest wi l l

4 st i l l be t her e.

5 And we urge you t o consi der t hi s

6 and pass i t . Thank you.


8 I ' d l i ke t o cal l Mr . Mar vet t J ohnson.

9 Mr . J ohnson, i s t hat Bal dwi n

10 County? Wher e i s your r esi dence?

11 MR. J OHNSON: I t ' s Bayou La

12 Bat r e.

13 Yeah, I ' m agai nst t he cl osur e and

14 t he dr edgi ng. Because I j ust - - I

15 don' t t hi nk we need i t t her e, you

16 know.

17 J ust - - i t ' s j ust al l been doi ng

18 - - you know, we' ve al l been doi ng

19 t hat ever si nce I was t en year s ol d,

20 you know. I j ust don' t t hi nk we need

21 i t .

22 That ' s al l I got t o say.




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1 Mr . J ohnson.

2 The next speaker wi l l be Mr .

3 Bobby Mat her s.

4 MR. MATHERS: Good mor ni ng, si r .

5 I have some maps I ' d l i ke t o hand t o

6 you. These maps are not pr oper l y - -

7 what we have her e i s - - I ' m f or

8 keepi ng t he Tensaw area open f or t he

9 mom- and- pop shr i mpers and t he smal l

10 boat s.

11 I had pul l ed a shi p channel al ong

12 wi t h t hese 55- f oot boat s and - - and

13 i t don' t wor k. I ' ve l ost f our net s

14 t hi s l ast year. We got a smal l si de

15 ar ea t hat we can pul l t hem i n.

16 What you see t her e i s a map t hat

17 was proposed by conser vat i on. And

18 t he one t hat ' s out l i ned i n col or i s

19 t he one t hat I made up.

20 And we al so have a map of t he

21 areas t hat was t aken under water .

22 And t here' s no gr ass beds i n t he

23 Tensaw ar ea. Tensaw i s t he upper



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1 par t by t he br i dge, whi ch i s a smal l

2 area, appr oxi matel y 500 yar ds wi de,

3 appr oxi mat el y hal f a mi l e l ong. I t

4 r uns back i nt o Mobi l e Ri ver . And

5 i t ' s 17 t o 30- f oot deep. Water comes

6 out f r om2 mi l es an hour t o 30 mi l es

7 an hour .

8 And t he by- catch, I ' ve shr i mped

9 Dauphi n I sl and each year when i t ' s

10 open. Dauphi n I sl and, I have t he

11 same by- cat ch appr oxi matel y. I t ' s a

12 l i t t l e di f f er ent - t ype f i sh t han I do

13 at t he Tensaw area.

14 These other par t s, we don' t

15 shr i mp t hat much anyway t o t he east

16 shor e. Now, t hat ' s, as f ar as I ' m

17 concer ned, t hat ' s a good cl osur e

18 because t her e are some grass pat ches

19 i n t her e.

20 But now, Tensaw - - I was pul l ed

21 out of t he Mobi l e Ri ver f r om t he

22 st or m and I l i ked t o have l ost my

23 wi f e and t wo gr and- ki ds and mysel f .



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1 And i t ' s happened bef or e and i t wi l l

2 happen agai n. So i f you t ake away

3 t he Tensaw area f r om 78 nor t h up

4 around t he curve, t hen you' ve t aki ng

5 away al l of our r esour ces t o cat ch

6 shr i mp t hat we' ve been doi ng f or

7 year s.

8 And we ask you, and I beg you t o

9 consi der t hi s as an open ar ea.

10 Anyt hi ng east of t her e over t o t he

11 East er n Shore, t hat ' s a good i dea.

12 You have i t on t he map. I out l i ned a

13 l i t t l e bi t of what ' s t her e.

14 And we want t o t hank you f or

15 consi der i ng t hi s, f or consi der i ng t he

16 r eef s. We l i ke t o f i sh, t oo. I ' m a

17 f i sher man. I l ove t o f i sh. I

18 r et i r ed f r om t he Uni ver si t y of Sout h

19 Al abama, and I enj oy f i shi ng. I al so

20 make a l i t t l e si de money shr i mpi ng.

21 And I have, and I need t hat and i t ' s

22 a gr eat oppor t uni t y f or al l of us t o

23 do.



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1 We under st and what t he

2 conservat i on i s worki ng f or. Because

3 we pay our t axes and we' r e a par t of

4 t hi s st at e, as you ar e. And t hat ' s

5 al l we ask f or . And we beg t hi s.

6 And i f you need any ot her

7 i nf ormat i on on t hi s, we wi l l be gl ad

8 t o suppl y i t .

9 Ot herwi se, i f al l of t hi s i s

10 cl osur e, I ' m sor r y t o say, s i r , but

11 we wi l l have t o keep on f i ght i ng f or

12 t hi ngs t hat we t hi nk i s r i ght .

13 And t he under wat er map shows t hat

14 t her e' s no grass beds i n Tensaw. We

15 had a meet i ng t he ot her ni ght and

16 we' r e pr et t y wel l agr eed on t hi s.

17 So, we- - I woul d appr eci at e t he

18 consi der at i on of keepi ng t hi s ar ea

19 open.

20 Thank you, si r .


22 Mr . Mather s.

23 Next I ' d l i ke t o cal l Mr . Dan



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1 Dumont .

2 MR. DUMONT: Thank you, Mr .

3 Chai r man.

4 I was t he Execut i ve Di r ect or of

5 t he Wi l dl i f e Feder at i on f or about

6 seven year s. And back dur i ng t hat

7 t i me, i n 1995 and ' 96, we began a bi g

8 r ound of meet i ngs t o di scuss t hi s

9 Upper Bay nur sery cl osur e.

10 The depar t ment asked t hat we

11 del ay any act i on on t hat back t hen.

12 I was l ooki ng i n my f i l es and f ound

13 ar t i c l es t hat I ' d wr i t t en i n t he

14 Al abama Wi l dl i f e magazi ne out l i ni ng

15 t he need f or t hi s.

16 I spent a 3- year t er m on t he Gul f

17 of Mexi co Fi sher y Management Counci l

18 i n J une of l ast year . I ' m cur r ent l y

19 a member of t he Shr i mp Advi sor y Panel

20 t o t he Gul f of Mexi co Fi sher y Mange

21 ment Counci l .

22 I r eal l y t hi nk t hi s i s a good

23 i dea. I ' m her e t o suppor t t he



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1 depar t ment ' s r ecommendat i on.

2 Thi s i s t he act ual map t hat I had

3 i n t hose meet i ngs i n 1995 and ' 96

4 wi t h sor t of wax mar ks on i t . And,

5 you know, t hi s gr een l i ne i s one t hat

6 we suggest ed i n some meet i ngs we had

7 j ust a f ew mont hs ago. But t hi s i s a

8 r esul t of wor k and negoti at i ons t hat

9 went on, you know, ei ght year s ago

10 and - - and l at er .

11 And t hi s cl osel y appr oxi mates t he

12 depar t ment ' s cur r ent r egul at i on.

13 They have some t i me t o st udy i t and I

14 t hi nk t he r esul t s of t hei r st udi es as

15 i ndi cat ed, you know, t hat t hi s i s a

16 necessary and benef i ci al act .

17 And I ' d l i ke t o say t hat my map' s

18 get t i ng a l i t t l e l ong i n t he t oot h

19 and I hope you' l l t ake act i on on t hi s

20 because I ' m get t i ng a l i t t l e l ong i n

21 t he t oot h, t oo, and I may not be

22 ar ound another ei ght year s t o t al k

23 about t hi s.



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1 But I ' d l i ke t o gi ve you t hi s

2 map, i f I coul d. Thank you.


4 Mr . Dumont .

5 Next t o t he mi cr ophone wi l l be

6 Mr . Edward Leat her bur y.

7 MR. LEATHERBURY: Thank you, Mr .

8 Chai r man. My name i s Edwar d

9 Leat herbury. I ' m f romMobi l e. I ' m

10 t he Stat e Chai r man of CCA Al abama.

11 We r epr esent approxi mat el y 2400

12 peopl e i n t he st ate of Al abama.

13 I ' m here t oday t o expr ess my

14 concer n wi t h t he Upper Bay cl osure

15 and suppor t of MRD' s r ecommendat i ons.

16 The bi ol ogi st s have st udi ed t hi s and

17 have det ermi ned t hi s i s what needs t o

18 be done. We f ul l y support t hei r

19 act i ons. And al so suppor t t hei r

20 act i ons on t he gi l l net

21 r ecommendat i ons t hat t hey have, al so.

22 Thank you.




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1 Mr . Leat her bur y.

2 The next speaker wi l l be Mr . Bob

3 Shi pp. Dr . Bob Shi pp, excuse me.

4 DR. SHI PP: Thank you, Mr .

5 Chai r man. My name i s Bob Shi pp and

6 I ' m chai r man of t he Depar t ment of

7 Mar i ne Sci ences at t he Uni ver si t y of

8 Sout h Al abama. However , I ' m speaki ng

9 on my own behal f t hi s mor ni ng as a

10 f i sher i es bi ol ogi st f or 35 year s

11 exper i ence and al so ni ne years of

12 servi ce on t he Gul f of Mexi co,

13 Fi sher i es Management Counci l .

14 I ' ve got a wr i t t en ver si on of

15 t hi s but I ' m goi ng t o cut i t down t o

16 publ i c t est i mony.

17 Our est uari es ar e r equi r ed

18 nur sery habi t at s f or about 90 percent

19 of our economi cal l y i mpor t ant

20 speci es, i ncl udi ng r edf i sh, speckl ed

21 t r out , sheepshead, f l ounder , cr oaker ,

22 bl ack dr um, mul l et . I mport ant f orage

23 speci es l i ke anchovi es, menhaden and



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1 pi nf i sh. And shel l f i sh, such as

2 br own and whi t e shr i mp, bl ue cr ab,

3 oyst er s and many, many ot her s.

4 Wi t hout t hi s essent i al habi t at , t hese

5 speci es woul d not exi st .

6 For t he l ast hal f cent ur y

7 f i sher i es wor l dwi de have been i n

8 decl i ne. Of t hi s, t her e i s no doubt .

9 Popul ar magazi nes, such as Ti me

10 and hi ghl y sci ent i f i c j our nal s such

11 as Sci ence and Nat ure have f eat ured

12 t hi s decl i ne as cover st or i es.

13 However , when f i shes are wel l

14 managed t hey r ecover and t hey r ecover

15 qui ckl y. Ef f ect i ve management of

16 mar i ne f i sher i es i n U. S. wat er s began

17 i n t he l ate 1970s wi t h t he passage of

18 Magnuson Act . And now, l ess t han 30

19 years l ater , we see r emarkabl e

20 r ecover y i n most of t he managed

21 st ocks.

22 However , one of t he si ngl e

23 gr eat est hur dl es i n st ock r ecover y i s



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1 r educt i on of by- cat ch of whi ch shri mp

2 t r awl i ng i s t he maj or cause.

3 The Magnuson Act i ncl udes 10

4 Nat i onal St andar ds, most deal i ng wi t h

5 saf ety, economi cs and al l ocat i on

6 i ssues.

7 However , St andar d 9 st ates:

8 Conser vat i on and management measur es

9 shal l , t o t he ext ent pr acti cabl e.

10 A) mi ni mi ze by- catch; and,

11 B) t o t he ext ent by- catch cannot

12 be avoi ded, mi ni mi ze t he mor t al i t y of

13 such by- catch.

14 Thi s i s t he l aw of t he l and.

15 Thi s vi ew was al so echoed i n t he

16 r ecent U. S. Commi ss i on on Ocean

17 Pol i cy bef or e t he Pr esi dent .

18 Now, we' ve al l seen

19 i mpl ement at i on of f eder al l aw:

20 Tur t l e excl uder devi ces, by- cat ch

21 r educt i on devi ces, pr ot ect i on of

22 endangered speci es.

23 From a bi ol ogi cal per spect i ve,



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1 cl osur e of t he ent i r e Upper Bay f r om

2 mi ddl e Bay l i ght nor t h, woul d l i kel y

3 be t he mi ni mumshoul d t he f eds i ssue

4 mandat es. But we know what a shor t -

5 t erm negat i ve economi c i mpact t hat

6 woul d have on our f i shermen, t hus t he

7 proposal t hat MRD has put f or ward

8 t hat woul d mi ni mi ze t hi s. And f or

9 t hi s r eason, I ' m wi l l i ng t o suppor t

10 t hat pr oposal .

11 However , t her e are t hose who say

12 "t hi s i s j ust t he f i r st step. Next

13 t i me t hey' l l want t o cl ose more. " To

14 t hem, I say "you' r e r i ght . " But t he

15 " t hey" won' t be us. I t ' l l be NOAA

16 Fi sher i es and t he f ederal government .

17 My vi ew i s t he mor e we do as a

18 st at e, t he l ess l i kel y we' l l be

19 subj ect t o f eder al i nt er vent i on.

20 Thank you.


22 Dr . Shi pp.

23 The next speaker wi l l be Wi l l i am



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1 G. Ladni er .

2 MR. LADNI ER: My name' s Wi l l i am

3 A. , not Wi l l i am G. I ' m Wi l l i am A. I

4 don' t have my gl asses on. I ' m

5 opposi ng t o al l t he dr edgi ng. Thi s

6 gent l eman r i ght here t al ki ng about

7 t hi s, t hat and t he ot her . Dr edgi ng

8 of t he l ower r eef s or f or any r eason

9 i n t he st at e of Al abama. I ' ve been

10 t o Mi ssi ssi ppi . I ' ve dr edged t he

11 Mi ssi ssi ppi . I worked as a deckhand

12 on a boat i n Mi ssi ssi ppi on a dr edge

13 boat . We sol d oyster s; I coul dn' t

14 hel p i t . I had t o do what t he

15 capt ai n sai d. But I wi l l say t hi s:

16 The st ate of Al abama has l ost a l ot

17 of oyst er s i n t he past . But t hi s

18 pl an pr ogr amt hey have i s not

19 br i ngi ng anyt hi ng back. They pl ant

20 r ocks and i t ' s f i ve year s t o cat ch

21 oyster s and t hat ' s f i ve year s gone.

22 They pl ant oyst ers t her e and t wo

23 year s l at er t hey' r e ki l l i ng i t ,



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1 t her e' s somet hi ng comi ng down t hese

2 r i ver s t hat ' s causi ng t hi s. What i t

3 i s, we need t o f i nd i t out . I t ' s not

4 t he oyst er ki l l i ng t he r eef s.

5 There' s no way you can ki l l an oyst er

6 r eef by combi ng i t because I ' ve seen

7 i t . I had 28 dr ag boat s on t her e i n

8 t he ' 60s, t oted sever al hundr ed

9 bar r el s a pi ece; coul dn' t cl ean i t

10 up. Ri ght now, we' r e on ei ght pack

11 l i mi t . The dr edger s, our oyster s

12 have t o be i n a cool er by t wo

13 o' cl ock. We have t o shut down at

14 12: 00 and get an hour t o get i n t he

15 cool er by t wo o' cl ock. Dr edge boat s,

16 t hey go down and t hey go al l day, al l

17 week l ong, don' t wor r y about t hem

18 al l . They keep t hem on t hei r boat ;

19 don' t mat t er . Somethi ng' s got t o be

20 done. I mean, t hat ' s di scr i mi nat i ng

21 by maki ng hi m l eave t he r eef s by

22 t wel ve o' cl ock and t hey st ay as l ong

23 as t hey want , seven days a week. We



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1 get t o go f i ve days a week. Thi s i s

2 not r i ght . I hat e t o see t hi s man

3 her e go i nt o of f i ce over t her e. I

4 wi sh you' d si t on t he boat , Mr .

5 J enki ns.

6 That ' s about al l I got t o say. I

7 know I got peopl e here t hat don' t

8 l i ke me. But I got one her e t hat

9 l oves me; my wi f e i s si t t i ng back

10 t here. 39 years i n Oct ober . We' ve

11 been doi ng al l r i ght as l ong as t he

12 oyst er s st ays t he way t hey i s. Don' t

13 l et t hem t ake no r eef s f r om us t o

14 dr edge on. I ' m not even - - I don' t

15 even want t o pl ant beds. They don' t

16 pay t axes or nothi ng. That ' s not

17 r i ght . But I don' t want t o get i nt o

18 t hat , so I ' m goi ng t o st ep down and

19 l et t he next man t al k, or l ady, or

20 what ever . But t hat ' s al l I got t o

21 say.


23 Mr . Ladni er .



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1 The next speaker wi l l be Mr . Ti m

2 Gothar d.

3 MR. GOTHARD: Good mor ni ng, Mr .

4 Chai r man, Member s of t he Boar d. I

5 won' t be r edundant . I f you' l l j ust

6 l ook at t he proposed r ecommendat i on

7 by MRD r egardi ng t he no t r awl zone.

8 We t hi nk i t ' s a good i dea. We t hi nk

9 i t ' s good f or t he r esour ce. The beds

10 are ver y i mpor t ant . And shr i mp and

11 t he pi nf i sh i n t hose ar eas are ver y

12 i mpor t ant . And we t hi nk t he

13 r ecommendat i on of t he depar t ment i s a

14 good r ecommendat i on and we suppor t

15 i t .

16 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: Thank you

17 ver y much.

18 The next speaker i s Tony

19 Landenwi ch.

20 MR. LANDENWI CH: My name i s Tony

21 Landenwi ch. I l i ve i n Bal dwi n

22 Count y. I ' d l i ke t o addr ess t wo

23 t hi ngs r eal qui ck her e t hi s mor ni ng.



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1 One, i s t he pr oposed ant l er

2 r estr i ct i ons. I t ' s been our

3 under st andi ng t hat t he more r ul es and

4 more r egul at i ons we put on hunt ers i s

5 t he opport uni t y f or us t o l ose

6 hunt er s. What I ' m pr oposi ng i s t hat

7 we not over bur den t he hunter s wi t h

8 new r egul at i ons and we t r y t o make

9 t hat exper i ence as easy as we can.

10 For t he number of deer t hat we have

11 avai l abl e i n t he st at e and t he

12 decl i ne i n hunt i ng popul at i ons, I

13 t hi nk we need t o advance t hat r at her

14 t han t r y t o r est r i ct t hat i ssue.

15 The ot her one has t o do wi t h

16 decoys of t urkeys. The NRA and

17 Hunt er Associ at i on and t he Depar t ment

18 of Conservat i on i s t eachi ng hunt er s

19 new hunt i ng ski l l s. We' r e t eachi ng

20 hunt ers t o enj oy t he woods wi t h gr eat

21 ski l l s. By addi ng t he decoy par t t o

22 t he t ur key, you ki nd of r educe or

23 el i mi nat e t hat a l i t t l e bi t . And



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1 i nst ead of t eachi ng t he hunt er r eal

2 ski l l s, we' r e goi ng t o t each t hem

3 decoy pl acement . We' r e probabl y

4 bet t er of f t eachi ng ski l l s as

5 compar ed t o t eachi ng how t o put a

6 decoy out i n t he woods.

7 That ' s al l I have. Thank you.


9 The next speaker wi l l be Mr . J ef f

10 Goodson.

11 Mr . Goodson, ar e you her e?

12

13 ( No ver bal r esponse. )

14

15 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: Robi n, we

16 wi l l pass Mr . Goodson.

17 The next speaker wi l l be J oseph

18 Cent anni .

19 MR. CENTANNI : Good mor ni ng. How

20 are you doi ng?

21 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: Good mor ni ng.

22 MR. CENTANNI : I ' ve shr i mped t he

23 Upper Bay - - t hi s i s about t he shri mp



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1 cl osur e. I ' ve shr i mped t he Upper Bay

2 f or maybe - - pr et t y soon, 30 years .

3 And I ' ve shr i mped i n a smal l boat .

4 We' d get of f f r om work and go shr i mp

5 most of t he ni ght .

6 And of al l t he year s t hat I ' ve

7 shr i mped, I ' ve never shr i mped up here

8 i n t hi s pr oposed - - t hi s pr oposed

9 cl osur e up here. I have shr i mped t he

10 deep channel s.

11 One t i me I went over her e ar ound

12 t he cove, but I got so much coal dust

13 i n my net I di dn' t go back.

14 So I pr ogr essed up t o, say, a 28-

15 f oot boat . And I don' t see any

16 r eason t o have t hi s cl osur e. I f you

17 cl ose t hi s wat er s, i t ' s not goi ng t o

18 make any di f f erence on t he pi nf i sh

19 because t here' s no t r awl i ng goi ng on

20 t her e anyway.

21 And as f ar as grass beds, you

22 pul l a t r awl i n a gr ass bed and see

23 what happens t o you, or you can go



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1 ar ound t hem.

2 And by- catch, you t ake a smal l

3 boat and get a l oad of menhaden t hi s

4 bi g, you know, and you t r y t o pi ck up

5 a f ew shr i mp out of i t . When you get

6 a l oad of f i sh i n a net , i t st ops t he

7 net up. I t pr oduces a wal l of wat er .

8 Bel i eve i t or not , i f you' r e

9 pul l i ng a t r awl , t hem f i sh ar e

10 swi mmi ng ar ound i n t hat bag down

11 t here. You put more water i n a t r awl

12 t han you can get out of i t . I bui l t

13 t r awl s.

14 So, a l ot of t hi s i s unnecessar y,

15 you know. And you keep t al ki ng about

16 document at i on. I keep hear i ng "wel l ,

17 we bel i eve t he bi ol ogi st s. " That ' s

18 what we heard i n t he meet i ng t he

19 other day. But , yet , has any

20 i nf or mat i on been publ i shed? Have

21 y' al l been pr esent ed wi t h any

22 i nf or mat i on f r om t he bi ol ogi st s? Any

23 st udy?



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1 I r ead somethi ng i n t he newspaper

2 based on as l ong as we kept t hese

3 wat er s cl osed. Wel l , i f t hey keep

4 wat ers cl osi ng past t he 68 count y,

5 t hey' r e i n vi ol at i on t her e. They

6 need t o open t he waters up. I t hi nk

7 we had a l i t t l e i nci dent l ast year

8 t hat proved t hat . We have got smal l

9 shr i mp and yet t hey had bi g shr i mp.

10 So t her e' s a l ot more t o t hi s t han

11 pr ot ecti ng pi nf i sh, stuf f l i ke t hat .

12 I suspect t here' s more f i sher men

13 up i n t hose wat er s. I f we' r e goi ng

14 t o cl ose some of i t , l et ' s cl ose i t

15 t o ever yt hi ng. Let ' s keep our boys

16 out of t he gr ass beds. I used t o

17 f l oat around on Sunday af t ernoon i n

18 J ohn' s Bend wi t h grass beds and cast

19 over t hem, but t he hur r i cane ki l l ed

20 al l of t hat .

21 Al so, t he gr ass beds above t he

22 causeway, somebody needs t o i nspect

23 t hose. There' s pr obl ems wi t h t hem up



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1 t her e.

2 And, l et ' s see. What el se do we

3 have here? Maybe t he r eason you

4 peopl e don' t even at t empt t o shr i mp

5 up t here i s because of t he grass

6 beds. My by- cat ch has al ways been

7 gr eat at Dauphi n I sl and.

8 I n t he f al l of t he year - - oh, by

9 t he way, t hese wat ers are onl y open

10 maybe t wo and a hal f mont hs a year .

11 And we onl y shr i mp i n deep wat er s,

12 l i ke Mr . Mat her s pr oposed, r i ght

13 t here. And, you know, i t ' s a shame

14 we' r e havi ng t hi s meet i ng. We coul d

15 have been pr ot ect i ng t hi s area

16 agai nst pi n - - or pi nf i sh and al l of

17 t hi s ot her ki nd of st uf f f or 13 year s

18 now. Because one of t he l ast

19 Commi ssi oner s had a meet i ng down here

20 suggest ed we meet wi t h t he GCCA, Mr .

21 Dumont , at Dauphi n I sl and. We di d

22 t hat . We made an agreement ver y

23 si mi l ar t o t hi s agr eement r i ght her e.



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1 At t he meet i ng t he other ni ght , Mr .

2 Dumont sai d he st i l l had t hat map.

3 So we' ve al r eady had t hi s agr eement

4 13 year s ago, or approxi matel y 12

5 year s ago. An ar t i cl e i n t he

6 newspaper si gned by Mr . Dumont and

7 al l of t hat . So we' ve al r eady had

8 t hi s agr eement . Yet we got t o get an

9 agr eement agai n? So, I t hi nk t he

10 GCCA t hen hasn' t st uck by t hei r

11 agreement . They coul d have been

12 pr ot ect i ng t hese f i sh f or 13 year s.

13 Why al l of a sudden do t hey t hi nk

14 t hey' ve got t o pr otect t hem now?

15 MS. NUMMY: You' ve got t o wr ap i t

16 up.

17 MR. CENTANNI : Do what ?

18 MS. NUMMY: You' ve got t o wr ap i t

19 up.

20 MR. CENTANNI : Okay.


22 s i r .

23 MS. NUMMY: I f you don' t know, I



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1 t i me ever ybody. We' ve got about 52

2 speaker s. I t ' s not t hat I want t o

3 i nt er r upt anyone. But I wi l l gi ve

4 you a mi nut e t o wr ap i t up. I t ' s not

5 t o be i mpol i t e, i t ' s j ust so we won' t

6 be her e unt i l si x o' cl ock t oni ght .


8 speaker wi l l be Mr . Davi d Yeager .

9 MR. YEAGER: Good mor ni ng, Mr .

10 Chai r man. I ' m Davi d Yeager wi t h t he

11 Mobi l e Bay Nat i onal Est uary Progr am.

12 As you al l know, some months ago

13 Mobi l e Bay Est uar y Progr amwas

14 r equest ed t o f aci l i t at e di scussi ons

15 on t hi s no t r awl area establ i shment

16 i n por t i ons of Mobi l e Bay and

17 Mi ssi ssi ppi Sound, Gr and Bay. Ar eas

18 wher e t r awl i ng woul d be r est r i ct ed

19 year around.

20 Now, conser vat i on i nt erest s and

21 many sci ent i st s bel i eve t hat t he

22 est abl i shment of such zones woul d

23 pr ot ect habi t at and gr ass beds and



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1 j uveni l e pi nf i sh t hr ough t he

2 r educt i on of by- catch. And some

3 bel i eve t hat t hey woul d al l ow smal l er

4 commerci al l y- caught speci es t o grow

5 t o a mor e economi c si ze.

6 Commer ci al i nt er est , on t he other

7 hand, and some r ecr eat i onal shr i mper s

8 vi ew t hese est abl i shment s and such

9 zones as a f ur t her r egul at i on on an

10 al r eady st r ai ned r esour ce.

11 Some see t he no t r awl zones as a

12 di r ect t hr eat t o t hei r busi ness

13 l i vel i hoods.

14 Si nce l ate February, we' ve been

15 worki ng wi t h both si des on t hi s i ssue

16 t r yi ng t o devel op, compromi se our

17 communi t y posi t i on. Var i ous

18 pr oposal s f or area cl osur es have been

19 ci r cul at ed back and f or t h t o each

20 group.

21 Some of t he maps t hat you see i n

22 t he conser vat i on r ecommendat i ons, MRD

23 r ecommendat i ons st ate r epr esent i ng



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1 some of t hose groups.

2 However , t o dat e, no agr eement

3 has been r eached on an acceptabl e

4 ar ea of cl osur e.

5 The Chart er pr ovi ded t o me by my

6 organi zat i on and t hat has member s of

7 al l par t s of t he communi t y, both f r om

8 t he commerci al si de and f r om t he

9 r ecr eat i onal si de, f r om busi ness and

10 i ndust r y; you name i t . To advocate a

11 posi t i on onl y i f i t i s a communi t y

12 posi t i on, I cannot t oday advocat e any

13 par t i cul ar posi t i on because of t hat .

14 Does t hi s mean t hat t her e' s no

15 oppor t uni t y f or f ur t her di scussi on?

16 No. I t hi nk - - I don' t t hi nk so at

17 al l . I n i ndi vi dual di scussi ons, we

18 have f ound a wi l l i ngness i n some

19 areas t o compromi se on part i cul ar

20 ar eas.

21 I n ot her cases, we have seen

22 peopl e r emai n adamant t hat no

23 cl osur es shoul d be - - shoul d be made.



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1 Never t hel ess, cont i nued di al og on

2 t he st at e of our nat ur al r esour ces i s

3 absol ut el y i mper at i ve.

4 As Dr . Shi pp not ed, t hi s i s a

5 l ocal i ssue. But i s t he quest i on

6 sur r oundi ng i t ver y much l i ke t he

7 i ssues sur r oundi ng l ocal f i sher i es

8 i ssue? Who' s r i ght ? What ' s t he

9 sci ence behi nd i t ? What are t he

10 cost s on economi c i mpact s associ ated

11 wi t h var i ous f i shery management

12 deci si ons?

13 Gi ven t he di f f er ences on vi ews,

14 whet her or not such no t r awl zones

15 woul d be ef f ect i ve, what i s t he

16 bot t om l i ne? Most of us not act i vel y

17 i nvol ved i n f i sher y sci ence and

18 f i sher i es management do not know t he

19 answer t o t hat quest i on. I t ' s l i ke

20 someone once t ol d me, i t ' s very

21 di f f i cul t t o know exact l y what t i me

22 i t i s i f you' ve got more t han one

23 wat ch.



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1 The r eal quest i on we f ace i s how

2 best t o manage a sust ai nabl e and

3 t hr i vi ng f i sher y wi t hout dest r uct i on

4 of our i ndust r y or r ecr eat i onal

5 oppor t uni t i es. I t ' s not a quest i on

6 of when. That ' s al r eady been

7 est abl i shed. Even i f you choose not

8 t o r el y on one par t i cul ar watch as

9 your dat a, we must ensur e t he act i ons

10 we t ake t oday, use t he best avai l abl e

11 sci ence whi l e we work t o i mprove t hat

12 body of knowl edge.

13 And as you del i ber ate t oday, I

14 j ust l eave you wi t h a quote f r om

15 Abr aham Li ncol n t hat ' s been a

16 f avor i t e of mi ne on subj ect s l i ke

17 t hi s: "Ther e ar e f ew t hi ngs whol l y

18 evi l or whol l y good. Al most

19 ever yt hi ng, especi al l y publ i c pol i cy,

20 i s an i nseparabl e compound of t he

21 t wo; so t hat our best j udgment of t he

22 preponder ance bet ween t hem i s

23 cont i nual l y demanded. " Thank you.



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2 The next speaker wi l l Mr . Ed

3 Wi l l i amson.

4 MR. WI LLI AMS: Mr . Commi ss i oner ,

5 Mr . Chai r man, Member s of t he Board,

6 Ladi es and Gent l emen. I r epr esent

7 Coast al Conservat i on Associ at i on of

8 Al abama. My name i s Ed Wi l l i amson.

9 I ' m f rom Mobi l e.

10 CCA. Coast al Conversat i on

11 Associ at i on i s a member shi p

12 organi zat i on of about 90, 000 men and

13 women of t he cost al st at es most of

14 whom r esi de on t he Gul f Coast . The

15 CCA i s an organi zat i on t hat ' s based

16 on l i st eni ng t o sound mar i ne sci ence,

17 good conservat i on sci ence. And usi ng

18 t hat common sense and what makes

19 sense i n good j udgment . They hel p

20 pass r egul at i ons and enf orce t hose

21 r egul at i ons t o support t he mar i ne

22 r esour ce. We are an advocat e f or t he

23 r esour ce.



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1 I ' m speaki ng her e t oday on behal f

2 of t he r esour ce. I don' t want t o be

3 r edundant , but I woul d l i ke t o

4 comment and net out , i f you wi l l , t he

5 t hree mai n r easons why CCA has t hrown

6 i t s hat i n t he r i ng on t hat i ssue.

7 Good conser vat i on mar i ne sci ence

8 t el l s us t hat shr i mp t r awl i ng i n t he

9 shal l ow wat er s, si x and a hal f f eet

10 or so i nward, does i r r eparabl e damage

11 t o t he grass beds t hat we' ve been

12 t r yi ng t o nur t ur e as nur sery gr ound

13 f or 40 year s i n Mobi l e Bay. I ' ve

14 been worki ng wi t h t hi s of f and on f or

15 my ent i r e l i f et i me as I ' ve wat ched

16 t hose grass beds be dest r oyed

17 whi l e - - f or t he shri mp and t he cr ab

18 and t he pi nf i sh t hat we enj oy so much

19 i n t hi s l i t t l e pi ece of r eal estate

20 t hat goes f r om t he Fl or i da l i ne t o

21 t he Mi ssi ssi ppi l i ne. Thi s i s an

22 i ncomparabl e val ue pi ece of r eal

23 est at e.



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1 Mobi l e Bay i s t he nur ser y gr ound.

2 Dest r oyi ng t hose grass beds means

3 dest r uct i on t o t he speci es t hat l i ve

4 t her e. Par t of t hat i s t he by- cat ch

5 mor t al i t y. By- cat ch i s a f act. I t ' s

6 good mar i ne sci ence. There' s t oo

7 much mor t al i t y i n by- catch. Those

8 l i t t l e pi nf i sh and crab t hat use t hat

9 area as a nur si ng gr ound.

10 Thi r d, t he economi c val ue of t he

11 shr i mp t hat comes f r om t hat shal l ow

12 water i s mi ni mum. I eat shr i mp once

13 a week. Pr obabl y a l ot of you her e

14 do, t oo. And I enj oy some of t he

15 f i nest I ' ve ever had. The J ohnson

16 f ami l y who i s up her e t oday cat ches

17 i n t he shi p channel i n Mobi l e Bay

18 some of t he f i nest shr i mp t hat exi st

19 come f r omt hat ar ea. And I st r ongl y

20 r ecommend t hat t hose shr i mpers

21 cont i nue t o dr ag t hat area i n t hat

22 deep of water .

23 What we' r e aski ng i s you st ay out



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1 of t he shal l ow wat er . I t ' s t oo

2 i mpor t ant as a nur sery gr ound.

3 May I j ust r ei t er at e t hr ee st r ong

4 common sense poi nts: I f t he grass

5 beds are dest r oyed, t he shr i mp i n

6 t hat shal l ow wat er . The by- cat ch i s

7 t oo gr eat . The mor t al i t y on t he

8 by- cat ch i s t oo gr eat . To consi der

9 i t val uabl e. The economi c val ue of

10 t hose shr i mp t hat come f r om t hat

11 shal l ow wat er i s negl i gi bl e.

12 Those shr i mp ar e goi ng t o grow

13 up. They' r e goi ng t o move t o deeper

14 wat er. Cat ch t hem out t her e i n t he

15 deep wat er wher e t hey have great er

16 economi c val ue and everybody can

17 enj oy t hem.

18 About 2, 500 CCA member s i n

19 Al abama ar e sol i dl y behi nd t hi s

20 i ssue.

21 Wher e we' ve spoken i n t he past

22 si nce 1980 on t he r egul at ory i ssues,

23 we' ve had great success. We' r e



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1 enj oyi ng wonder f ul success on i t .

2 Ever ythi ng f r om speckl ed t r out t o r ed

3 snapper . Thi s makes good common

4 sense, good conser vat i on sense, good

5 mar i ne sci ence sense. And we

6 st r ongl y ur ge t hat you pass t hi s

7 cl osur e.

8 Thank you ver y much.


10 The next speaker wi l l be Gr eg

11 Leat herbur y.

12 MR. LEATHERBURY: Thank you, Mr .

13 Chai r man. My name i s Gr eg

14 Leat her bur y and I ' m a r esi dent of

15 Bal dwi n County. I ' m a member of CCA.

16 Mr . Dumont and I and ot her s hel ped

17 f or m t he Al abama Chapter of CCA back

18 i n 1981 or ' 82. We' ve been act i vel y

19 i nvol ved i n conservat i on of mar i ne

20 r esour ces and pr otect i on of our

21 habi t at and envi r onment . A l ot of

22 st udy has gone i nt o t hi s mat t er over

23 many, many year s. We' ve hear d al l of



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1 t he pr evi ous peopl e t al k t o t hose

2 i ssues. We have compet i ng i nt erest s,

3 obvi ousl y. And y' al l ar e i n char ge

4 of management of our r esour ces. I

5 know t hat t he deci si ons t hat you al l

6 have t o make somet i mes ar e ver y

7 di f f i cul t . I t hi nk you al l have done

8 a good j ob. I commend you.

9 A l ot of st udy has gone i nt o t hi s

10 and I ur ge you t o adopt t hi s mar i ne

11 r esour ces di vi si on r ecommendat i on.

12 Thank you.


14 Mr . Leat her bur y.

15 The next speaker i s Mr . Wal t er

16 Er nest .

17 MR. ERNEST: Thank you, Mr .

18 Chai r man. I ' m r epr esent i ng t he

19 Al abama Coast al Foundat i on t oday. We

20 support t he no t r awl zone f or sever al

21 r easons. The Al abama Coast al

22 Foundat i on, one of our mai n emphasi s

23 i s on water qual i t y. And t hi s ban



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1 wi l l i mpr ove wat er qual i t y. I t wi l l

2 al so al l ow us t o, as we poi nt out

3 t oday, what t he SA needs f r omt hat .

4 Anot her t hi ng i t wi l l do, as you' ve

5 been poi nt ed out , i s t o i ncr ease t he

6 pi nf i sh popul at i on and al l ow t he

7 j uveni l e shr i mp t o achi eve adul t

8 si ze.

9 That ' s al l about al l I have t o

10 say. We do suppor t t hi s measure and

11 I t hank you f or al l owi ng me t o speak.


13 The next speaker wi l l be Mr . Er ni e

14 Ander son.

15 MR. ANDERSON: Thank you. I ' m

16 Er ni e Ander son f r omMobi l e Count y.

17 I ' m cur r ent l y t he pr esi dent of

18 Or gani zed Seaf ood Associ at i on. I ' m

19 past di r ect or of t he Sout her n Shr i mp

20 Al l i ance. I ' m al so r epr esent i ng

21 Al abama on a di esel mar ket i ng boar d

22 f or Al abama and f or Amer i can Wi l d

23 Shr i mp. Thi s i ssue was br ought f ort h



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1 a f ew mont hs ago and was l ai d down on

2 t he t abl e. There was a meet i ng hel d

3 where Mr . Yeager was asked about t he

4 pr oposal . The pr oposal had a r ather

5 l arge amount of t he Upper Bay f r om

6 Dog Ri ver al l t he way across t o t he

7 East ern Shor e. And we came t o t hat

8 meet i ng. We l ooked at i t . There was

9 some di scussi on. We made i t cl ear

10 t hat we wer e not - - I ' m not i n a

11 posi t i on t oday t o advocat e or say

12 what t he shr i mp i ndust r y woul d agr ee

13 on or woul d not agr ee on. My

14 posi t i on was I was t r yi ng t o br i ng

15 t ogether some f ol ks f r omt he

16 shr i mpi ng i ndust r y t o par t i ci pat e i n

17 t hese meet i ngs t hat Mr . Yeager asked

18 us t o do and brought bef ore t he board

19 a f ew mont hs ago. And we' ve done i t

20 and put i t on t he t abl e af t er t hat

21 f i r st meet i ng - - t her e was a l ot of

22 di scussi on t oday about bi ol ogi st s,

23 about data, about i nf ormat i on. We' ve



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1 been at sever al meet i ngs wher e t hey

2 were di scussi ng i t . We' ve asked t he

3 i ndust r y and t hose f ol ks r epr esent i ng

4 t he i ndust r y at t hat meet i ng, asked

5 f or t hat dat a, put i t on t he t abl e,

6 l et us l ook, l et ' s see what you have.

7 Not hi ng was put down but i n

8 gener al i t i es.

9 I t woul d be a good t hi ng and we

10 bel i eve i t ' s a good t hi ng. You know,

11 t her e' s dat a support i ng i t . But none

12 of i t has been put on t he t abl e.

13 We had a - - we cal l ed f or a

14 publ i c hear i ng, organi zat i on met back

15 on February 26th. We had

16 approxi matel y 130 pl us shr i mper s and

17 seaf ood i ndust r y f ol ks meet f r om

18 Bayou La Batr e. They asked, I t hi nk

19 i t was ei ght or t en r epr esent at i ves,

20 peopl e and f ol ks r epr esent i ng i t and

21 we opened some di scussi on. I bel i eve

22 you mi ght have got t en some l et t er s

23 and cor r espondence f r om some of t hose



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1 f ol ks t hat met wi t h Mr . Yeager at

2 some meet i ngs.

3 And each t i me t here' s been - -

4 t her e' s been some di scussi on about

5 what - - what areas woul d af f ect t he

6 l i vel i hoods. That ' s t he f i r st t hi ng.

7 What t hei r l i vel i hood - - what woul d

8 ef f ect t he l i vel i hood. And i s t her e

9 any dat a. Agai n, l i ke I say, t her e

10 was never any dat a put on t he t abl e.

11 So t her e was some di scussi on at

12 t hose meet i ngs about t hat maybe we - -

13 i t woul d be a smal l area. And t here

14 needs t o be some st udy - - t her e needs

15 t o be some accur at e data put down

16 bef ore we act ual l y ef f ect t he

17 l i vel i hood of peopl e i n cl osur es i n

18 t hose areas.

19 And i f i t does ef f ect and cr eat e

20 i ncr eased pr oduct i on and cost . You

21 know, t hat ' s not somet hi ng I don' t

22 t hi nk anybody woul d be agai n i t . I

23 know t he shr i mper s especi al l y at t hi s



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1 t i me have spent mi l l i ons of dol l ar s

2 r i ght now doi ng st udyi ng, market i ng,

3 t r yi ng t o f i nd ways t o i ncr ease t he

4 i ndust r y. Not onl y t hat , but

5 Al abama, I spoke bef ore, about how

6 t he i ndust r y ef f ects Al abama and t he

7 amount of money t hat i s t her e.

8 But al so, you know, t her e i s - -

9 t here was a di scussi on about t he

10 Magnuson/ Stevenson Act . Okay. I

11 under st and t hat t her e was a l ower

12 cour t r ul i ng t hat was uphel d by a

13 hi gher appel l at e cour t r ul i ng t hat

14 t he wor d "pract i cal " i s i n t her e.

15 And "pr act i cal " was r ul ed by t he

16 appel l at e cour t r ul i ng not t o i ncl ude

17 cl osur e. Cl osur e was not pr act i cal .

18 Ther e' s not a pr act i cal sol ut i on t o

19 by- cat ch r educt i on.

20 Ther e' s a l ot of other avenues t o

21 t ake. But i t ' s not t her e. You know,

22 i t ' s not bei ng pr esent ed.

23 The ot her i ssues I r ecent l y



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1 underst ood t hat t hi s was br ought

2 up - -

3 MS. NUMMY: I ' l l gi ve you one

4 mor e mi nute.

5 MR. ANDERSON: Thank you. I t was

6 br ought up t hat t hi s was - - t hi s was

7 a t wo- year pr ocess. Over t hat t wo

8 years anyone f r om t he i ndust r y was

9 br ought i n, up unt i l j ust t hi s r ecent

10 - - j ust pr i or t o t he - - t he l ast

11 meet i ng. And I t hi nk t hat - - and I

12 suggest ed t hat i f we had an

13 opport uni t y t o br i ng t he i ndust r y

14 t ogether , whi ch we done at t he l ast

15 meet i ng t he other ni ght af t er our

16 meet i ng; i t was a good meet i ng. I

17 l ooked around, t here was f ol ks f r om

18 t he shr i mp i ndust r y, peopl e were

19 di scussi ng, havi ng some di scussi on.

20 But t hey haven' t had t hat i nput .

21 There' s f our generat i ons of knowl edge

22 i n t he seaf ood i ndust r y i n Al abama.

23 And t hey shoul d have t he i nput i nt o



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1 t hi s bef ore any deci si on bet ween - -

2 has been made or i s made by you al l .

3 I j ust don' t t hi nk t hat a cl osur e

4 t oday woul d be pr act i cal . Thank you.


6 Mr . Anderson. The next speaker wi l l

7 be Mr . Eugene J ohnson.

8 MR. J OHNSON: I ' m Eugene J ohnson.

9 I ' m f r om Bayou La Bat r e, Al abama.

10 I ' m a Mobi l e Count y r esi dent . And

11 I ' m her e on behal f of t he seaf ood

12 i ndust r y on bot h oyst er s, shr i mpi ng,

13 crabber s, f i shi ng. I made a l i vi ng

14 on i t . I ' m 60 year s ol d. I got 45

15 years of shr i mpi ng behi nd me. I

16 bui l t my own net s. I ' ve dr ug f or

17 shr i mp f r om Br ownsvi l l e, Texas t o

18 Cape Canaver al , Fl ori da over t o

19 J acksonvi l l e, Fl or i da. I dr ug shr i mp

20 net s f r omCape Coze, Mexi co, f r om

21 Mobi l e Bay t o Mi ssi ssi ppi . And i f

22 t he gr ass beds and al l are not

23 dest r oyed, t hey come ever y year .



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1 I ' l l st ar t i n Gr and Bay. When I

2 was ni ne or t en year s ol d, I hel ped

3 pl ant oyst er shel l wi t h Mr . Wi l l i am

4 Schnei der.

5 I ' m ner vous, I never spoke

6 bef ore.

7 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: You' r e doi ng

8 f i ne.

9 MR. J OHNSON: I st ar t ed of f

10 pl ant i ng oyst er shel l s when I was

11 ni ne year s ol d wi t h Mr . Wi l l i am

12 Schnei der . He woul d be a 100 and

13 some years ol d t oday i f he wer e st i l l

14 ar ound. And we had grass beds over

15 t her e t hen. We st i l l have gr ass

16 beds. Gr ass beds accumul ate dur i ng

17 t he wi nt er mont hs. When we go

18 oyst er i ng, t he gr ass beds accumul ate

19 i n t he wi nter mont hs. The shr i mp

20 f eed of f of t hese speckl ed t r out .

21 The by- cat ch, t he gover nment ' s goi ng

22 t o t ake car e of t hat . The St at e of

23 Al abama ai n' t got t o t ake car e of



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1 t hat . The government ' s t aki ng care

2 of t hat . They got t he f eds on us.

3 The government ' s t aki ng care of your

4 by- cat ch on f i sh l i nes. Al l r i ght .

5 Mobi l e Bay. I shr i mp t he channel

6 wi t h by daddy when al l we had was a

7 25- gal l on j ug wi t h wat er, no

8 el ect r oni cs, none of t hat . We dr ug

9 t he gr ass beds - - t he grass beds

10 accumul at e i n t he wi nter mont hs f or

11 t he seaf ood t o eat . Provi de shr i mp

12 t o f eed on, t he pi nf i sh f eed on t hat

13 and i t - - i t br eaks l oose and moves

14 on out i n t he summer mont hs.

15 And as f ar as t he oyst er s, I

16 caught oyst er s wi t h my daddy when

17 we' d cat ch pi ckup t r uck l oads. Not

18 t en or ei ght sacks, i t was pi ckup

19 t r uck l oads.

20 And t he ones t hat ' s f or dr edgi ng,

21 I was bor n and r ai sed wi t h ever y one

22 of t hem. I ' m agai nst t hat because

23 dr edgi ng - - i f you l egal i ze dr edgi ng



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1 i n t he st at e of Al abama, you' r e goi ng

2 t o dest r oy t he i ndust r y. We' r e her e

3 t o pr ot ect t he i ndust r y, not dest r oy

4 i t . I f peopl e al l ow dr edgi ng i n t he

5 st at e of Al abama, you' r e goi ng t o

6 dest r oy t he oyst er i ndust r y.

7 I wor ked on t ug boat s up i n

8 Mobi l e Bay. I deal Seaf ood Company.

9 Radcl i f f Seaf ood Company. They' r e

10 dest r oyi ng Mobi l e Bay. They di g t he

11 shel l s and pump t he mud on oyst er s

12 and when t hey di e t hey' r e goi ng - - I

13 used t o si t out t her e wi t h my pocket

14 kni f e and eat t hem. I was f i shi ng

15 when I was 15 year s ol d. I got 45

16 year s of seaf ood work behi nd my bel t .

17 And I t hank y' al l f or l i st eni ng t o

18 me. But I ' m agai nst ever ythi ng t hey

19 pr oposi ng on i t and i t ' s t aki ng more

20 f ood away f r omus and i t ' s not goi ng

21 t o hel p us, t he r ecr eat i onal ar ea,

22 and i t ' s not hel pi ng t he commer ci al

23 man what soever . I ' m agai nst i t .



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1 Thank y' al l f or l i steni ng.


3 Mr . J ohnson.

4 The next speaker wi l l be J ames

5 Nowel l .

6 MR. NOWELL: My name i s J ames

7 Nowel l . And I ' ve been a commerci al

8 f i sher man over 40 years at Mobi l e

9 Bay. I ' ve been dr aggi ng Mobi l e Bay.

10 And I ' m agai nst any cl osur e of Mobi l e

11 Bay.

12 To st ar t wi t h, you' r e worr i ed

13 about by- catch. As many boat s t hat ' s

14 goi ng out of busi ness, i t ' s t aki ng

15 car e of i t sel f . You ai n' t goi ng t o

16 have hal f t he peopl e out t here.

17 Ever y year , i t ' s get t i ng l ess and

18 l ess. Peopl e can' t make a l i vi ng

19 anymor e. By- cat ch l i ke t hat wi l l

20 t ake car e of i t sel f .

21 I f you' r e wor r i ed about gr ass

22 beds - - whi ch t hey' r e not wor r i ed

23 about gr ass beds, t hat ' s j ust an



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1 excuse. They' r e wor r i ed about grass

2 beds, t hen go up her e and get al l

3 t hese chemi cal compani es, al l t hese

4 sewages. Ever y year - - I mean, every

5 week mi l l i ons of gal l ons are dumped

6 i n Mobi l e Bay. Sewage. Not hi ng ever

7 sai d about i t . A l i t t l e ar t i cl e i n

8 t he paper . Mi l l i ons of gal l ons. Why

9 don' t t hey do somethi ng about t hat i f

10 t hey' r e worr i ed about gr ass? That ' s

11 j ust a f r ont i s al l t hat i s: Gr ass.

12 We had a meet i ng her e and we had

13 t hr ee or f our pr oposal s. Whi ch one

14 of t hese pr oposal s ar e y' al l t al ki ng

15 about , you know, cl osure? We' ve had

16 t hr ee or f our peopl e t hat

17 pr oposed wher e y' al l ar e t al ki ng

18 about?

19 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: We wi l l

20 pr esent t hat l at er i n t he meet i ng

21 t oday.

22 MR. NOWELL: Okay. Li ke I sai d,

23 I ' ve been shr i mpi ng f or 40 year s.



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1 These peopl e t hat ' s t est i f i ed up her e

2 seem t o know wher e t he bi g shr i mp and

3 stuf f i s , I ' d l i ke t o hi r e some of

4 t hemt o go t o work f or me. I mean,

5 t hey seem t o know mor e about

6 somethi ng t han what we do. I ' d l i ke

7 t o hi r e t hem on my boat . I r eal l y

8 woul d.

9 And t he oyst er beds - - and I

10 don' t dr edge oyst ers . I don' t t ongue

11 oyst ers. I ' m not man enough t o

12 t ongue oyst er s. But I ' m goi ng t o

13 t el l you, I know a bunch of peopl e

14 t hat does and t hey' r e dead set

15 agai nst t hi s dr edgi ng, t he maj or i t y

16 are. You don' t want t o pass no

17 dr edgi ng l aws i n Al abama f r om what I

18 under st and. But t hi s by- cat ch, l i ke

19 I t ol d you and t he bi g shr i mp,

20 t hey' r e i n shal l ow wat ers as wel l as

21 t hey' r e i n deep water s. Sur el y t hey

22 got enough sense t o know t hat f i sh

23 and shr i mp swi m, you know; I hope



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1 t hey do. I f t hey don' t know t hat

2 t hey swi m, t hey don' t need t o be up

3 her e t al ki ng. Al l r i ght . I ' m dead

4 set agai nst any cl osur e. Thank you.


6 speaker wi l l be Bi l l ei t her J aecht er

7 or Haecht er . I s Mr . J aecht er her e?

8 I t ' s ei t her Mr . H- a- e or ei t her

9 J - a- e- c- h- t - e- r .

10 MS. NUMMY: He had t o go.


12 speaker t hen i s Mr . Har r y J ohnson.

13 MR. J OHNSON: I appreci ate i t .

14 I ' m al so agai nst t he oyster dr edgi ng

15 out i n Mobi l e Bay. Al l t hey do i s

16 r ui n t hem. I ' ve oyst er dr edged i n

17 Loui si ana and I ' ve oyst er dr edged

18 wi t h a l ot of peopl e. I ' ve worked on

19 dr edge boat s and i t ' s j ust - - you

20 ki l l t he r eef s. Dr edge t ear s t he

21 channel s up and t he next t hi ng you

22 know your oyst ers di e on you.

23 And as f ar as t he f i shi ng, I



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1 don' t know nothi ng about t hat . I

2 don' t f i sh. Al l I do i s cat ch

3 oyst ers wi t h my daddy. I ' ve been

4 cat chi ng oyst ers wi t h my daddy al l my

5 l i f et i me and t hey' r e get t i ng wor ser

6 and har der t o cat ch t han what t hey

7 used t o be.

8 I r emember we used t o go out and

9 - - l i ke t he guy sai d, i n boat s, 40,

10 50 sacks i n l ess t han t hr ee and a

11 hal f , f our hour s j ust about . And now

12 when you go out , you' r e l ucky t o get

13 ei ght sacks i n a day' s t i me. From

14 si x o' cl ock i n t he morni ng or seven

15 o' cl ock i n t he morni ng t o 3: 00 i n t he

16 eveni ng, you' r e goi ng t o be l ucky i f

17 you get ei ght sacks out t her e.

18 That ' s how bad i t ' s get t i ng. I f t hey

19 put t he dr edges i n t her e, t hey' r e

20 goi ng t o r ui n t he r eef s i s what

21 t hey' r e goi ng t o do.

22 That ' s al l I got t o say.




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1 speaker wi l l Mr . Aver y Bat es.

2 MR. BATES: My name i s Avery

3 Bat es. I ' m f r om Mobi l e Count y and

4 I ' ve l i ved i n I r vi ngt on t he l ast t en

5 year s, Bayou La Bat r e most al l of my

6 l i f e.

7 I ' m a commerci al f i sher men. And

8 we and - - t her e' s been many probl ems

9 over t he year s f i ght i ng speci al

10 i nt er est and t hi s i s j ust anot her

11 t i me. And we' r e agai nst t he dr edgi ng

12 f or var i ous r easons. We' r e agai nst

13 t he shr i mpi ng cl osur es f or var i ous

14 r easons.

15 And as f ar as bi ol ogi cal r easons,

16 t he dredgi ng can dest r oy t he

17 mechani cal worki ngs; mar i ne. Most l y

18 i t ' s sof t bot t om. You' ve got some

19 smal l area of hard bot t om. I t woul d

20 j ust cr eat e an enf orcement ni ght mare.

21 The gr ass beds t hat t hey' r e wor r i ed

22 about , i f t hey' r e r eal l y wor r i ed

23 about grass beds, i t woul d t ake 1800



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1 f eet t hat t hey' r e al l owed bei ng

2 dredged and - - a dredge t hat may

3 wei gh i n excess of a hundr ed pounds,

4 t hat f or ce can dest r oy or hur t gr ass

5 beds. A 100 pound dredge i s di ggi ng

6 si x i nches under t he bot t om. What

7 woul d t hat do t o a grass bed? Nobody

8 sai d anyt hi ng about t hat . Why?

9 Speci al i nt er est .

10 We know beyond a shadow of a

11 doubt t hat dr edgi ng i n t he st at e of

12 Al abama i n t he past has not been

13 pr of i t abl e. That ' s how come our

14 f or ef at her ' s knocked i t i n t he head.

15 And t he f act t hat t he dredge i n here

16 - - t hey say i t ' s a new exper i ence.

17 Ther e' s not hi ng new about i t ; i t ' s

18 been goi ng on f or gener at i ons. We

19 know t hey' l l dest r oy i t . That ' s t he

20 r eason our f or ef at her s sai d no t o i t .

21 That ' s t he r eason we say no t o i t .

22 As f ar as dr edgi ng bot t oms i n

23 Mobi l e Bay, anot her speci al i nt er est



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1 t hi ng. They t al k about habi t at .

2 Man, ever ywhere you l ook t here' s oi l

3 f i sh r eef . That ' s habi t at . Ther e' s

4 oi l pumps - - oi l company wi t h oi l i n

5 i t . That ' s habi t at . You can' t dr ag

6 - - you can' t dr ag on a nat ur al r eef .

7 That ' s al r eady document ed. We' ve got

8 numer ous r eef s now t hat has got

9 concr et e pi l i ngs or concret e cul ver t s

10 ar ound i t . And t otal wast e of our

11 shel l r esour ce, we' ve had 10, 000

12 yar ds of shel l on a r eef i n 1998 and

13 do you know how many oyst er s t hat ' s

14 pr oduced so f ar? Zero. 20, 000

15 oyst ers out si de Bouey Reef out of

16 what you cal l f i sh - - and - - and

17 shel l . Do you know how many oyst er s

18 t hat pr oduced back i n ' 98? Zero.

19 And some on what you cal l t he Boyki n

20 Smi t h Reef . The Lynn Boyki n Smi t h, a

21 f ew back year s. Do you know how many

22 oyst ers t hat produced? Zero. When

23 you consi der al l t he zeros t hat we



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1 had i n 2001, we had oyst er shel l s

2 even bei ng pl ant ed around t he south

3 end of Dauphi n I sl and around t he

4 pumpi ng st at i on at ni ght and i t was

5 t oo har d t o l oad t he shel l s f r om

6 around t hat and t hat area never

7 produced; never has produced. The

8 shel l s t hat was supposed t o have been

9 on t he r eef went around t hi s area.

10 Speci al i nt er est seems t o be sl i ppi ng

11 i n and get t i ng what t hey want . Guess

12 what t he 10, 000 yards of cor al went

13 i n and out of Mobi l e Bay. And t hey

14 come back hey, t hem suckers are

15 pl ant ed out t here. They' r e supposed

16 t o br i ng i n oyst er s out t her e. Some

17 of t hat concr et e i s as bi g as

18 basebal l s - - as basket bal l s and some

19 as bi g as bowl i ng bal l s. You can' t

20 haul t hem. Have you ever t r i ed t o

21 haul a concr et e bl ock - - t hat ' s

22 bi gger t han a concr et e bl ock, i t ' s

23 i mpossi bl e. What are you doi ng wi t h



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1 t hi s st uf f ? Maki ng f i shi ng r eef s.

2 Fi shi ng r eef s - - you can' t dr ag on a

3 f i shi ng reef . I t wi l l go t hrough i t ;

4 you wi l l your chai ns out . Thi s i s

5 about speci al i nt erest r unni ng you

6 out . 98 per cent of our seaf ood comes

7 f r om our est uar i es. We' r e concer ned

8 about est uar i es. I bought al l my

9 cl othes wi t h commerci al f i shi ng

10 money. So di d al l of t hese other

11 peopl e t al ki ng here. They don' t want

12 t o see dredgi ng. They don' t want t o

13 see t he bot t om cl osed. Who are you

14 goi ng t o put out of busi ness? They

15 t al k about shal l ow wat er shr i mpi ng,

16 t hese shr i mp areas t hat t hey opened

17 l ast year , t he shr i mp' s t oo smal l .

18 The smal l est shr i mp t hey f ound i n any

19 ar ea, accor di ng t o t he conservat i on

20 of f i cer t hat I t al ked t o, was 26/ 30s.

21 Thi s has been goi ng on f or year ,

22 af t er year , af t er year . And 26/ 30s,

23 a l egal count i s 68. Some of t hese



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1 ar eas ar e 15/ 20s. Do you r eal i ze i t

2 onl y t akes one day f or shr i mp t o dr op

3 out of t he bay, i t hi t s t he t i de, one

4 day hi t s t he Gul f . Why? I f you have

5 a l ow pressur e area move t hrough,

6 pow, t hey pass t hr ough. Do you know

7 how f ast t he cur r ent moves? I heard

8 a f el l ah say i t moves 20 mi l es an

9 hour t o Tensaw, you can' t even drag

10 agai nst i t . Do you know what t hat

11 shr i mp does? He get s under t he

12 water , and boom, he hi t s t he Gul f .

13 Do you know what t he shr i mper gets?

14 Zero. I n ot her wor ds, no money i n

15 hi s back pocket . No f ood on t he

16 t abl e. What about al l t he

17 r est aur ant s her e t hat depend on our

18 seaf ood? Al l t he peopl e t hat eat

19 t hem? We produced i n t he l ast 100

20 year s j ust on oyster s al one,

21 document ed r ecor d

cab 2004 may

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