blue water ships in the delta and rivers and agent orange old topic revised.doc

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Blue Water, Ships in the delta and rivers and Agent Orange, old topic revisedlue Water, Ships ine delta and rivers

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aveBarker Has Been 5"

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A Blue Water !laims pdate #$% &ver' (S( )av' ship is re*uired to maintain a +ecLog( -here is an entr' into the +ec Log & &./ +A/ even 0hen the ship is 1ust tied to apier and nothing is happing other than routine activities( 2f 'ou are after the informationon a ships location and 0hat it 0as doing, 'ou 0ill find this in the +ec Log( 2f 'ou are aftera certain activit' 3ut are not certain of the e4act date, then the 3est 0a' to get this is tore*uest the +ec Logs for a range of dates( &( ( if 'ou no0 that sometime in April, #678an incident occurred and 'ou 0ant to see if it 0as recorded in the +ec Log, the 3est thingto do is to re*uest the Log entries for the entire month of April, #678( Some da's the entriesare one paragraph( Some da's the entries ta e up one or more pages( -he )ationalArchives and .ecords Administration 9)A.A: can provide 'ou 0ith copies of 1ust a3outever' naval ship;s dec logs involved in the ietnam !onflict( -hese 0ill 3e actual copies ofthe dec log pages, sometimes hard to read 3ecause of the hand0riting, 3ut none the lessoriginal( -hese are accepted 3' the A as proof positive of a ship;s activities( /ou need to

specif' the e4act dates that 'ou 0ant copies of( !ost is less than a dollar per page dependenton page si


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t&e #eriod e ere in t&e Ba$ o! Pigs -#on recei#t * !o,nd t&e" a'' to be neat'$ t$#ed% M)s ont&e .on$ did not &ave t$#e riters% t&e$ ,sed #en and a book ca''ed t&e Deck Log and "ost'$said 3Stea"ing as be!ore 3 *t did indicate atc& c&anges 0400% 0800 et a'% as e'' as 8 o)c'ockre#orts etcetera% "ain'$ 3Stea"ing as be!ore 3 '' !abricated cover ,# 'ies

* ca''ed "$ ski##er 6rank . D,n&a" Jr and to'd &i" &at * received% &e advised "e t&eorigina's ere b,rned

2 0ill cast no stones( roud mem3er of the +

Militar'(com is the original home of the +erelict eterans roup,+ , esta3lished +ecem3er >#, ??8

Posts: ?>66 7 egistered: -ue # )ovem3er ??

ave9M ead Moderator,eterans 2ssues Kducation

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Posted Sat 01 October 2011 02:


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*.D=( 154C 'ess #reva'ent t,"ors o! t&e s"a'' intestine *.D=( 152C are o!ten inc',ded 6indingson cancers o! t&e retro#eritone," and ot&er ,ns#eci!ied digestive organs *.D=( 15(C areconsidered in t&is categor$ .o'orecta' cancers acco,nt !or abo,t 55G o! digestive t,"ors .Sesti"ated t&at 15(%((0 #eo#'e o,'d deve'o# ne cases in t&e -nited States in 2008 and 51% 50

o,'d die !ro" t&e cancers Je"a' et a' % 2008aC A@c',ding basa'=ce'' and s+,a"o,s=ce'' skincancers% co'orecta' cancer is t&e t&ird="ost co""on !or" o! cancer bot& in "en and in o"en

?&e incidence o! co'orecta' cancer increases it& age it is &ig&er in "en t&an in o"en and&ig&er in b'acks t&an in &ites Beca,se it is reco""ended t&at a'' #ersons over 50 $ears o'd

receive co'on=cancer screening% screening can a!!ect t&e incidence Ot&er risk !actors inc',de!a"i'$ &istor$ o! t&is !or" o! cancer% so"e diseases o! t&e intestines% and diet ?$#e 2 diabetes isassociated it& an increased risk o! cancer o! t&e co'on .S% 200 aC

S'nthesis -he epidemiologic studies revie0ed 'ielded no evidence to suggest an association3et0een the chemicals of interest and colorectal cancer( -here is no evidence of 3iologicplausi3ilit' of an association 3et0een e4posure to an' of the chemicals of interest and thedevelopment of tumors of the colon or rectum(

Overall, the availa3le evidence does not support an association 3et0een the chemicals ofinterest and colorectal cancer( !onclusion On the 3asis of the evidence revie0ed here and inprevious AO reports, the committee concludes that there is inade*uate or insufficientevidence to determine 0hether there is an association 3et0een e4posure to the chemicals ofinterest and colorectal cancer(

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aveBarker Has Been"

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Posted Mon 0< October 2011 0 6ADS D-A ?O ?A.H *. L*?> * ?HA L F

.,rrent La Fo,'d e+,ire to Provide Bene!its !or Service Me"bers A@#osed to gent Orange On

Dr$ ;ro,nd% B,t *gnores ets *n t&e Fater

Se#te"ber 28% 2011

Fas&ington% D. K - S Senators irsten ;i''ibrand D= >C and Lindse$ ;ra&a" =S.C introd,ced'egis'ation to ens,re t&at "ore t&an 250%000 av$ veterans !ro" t&e ietna" Far e@#osed to t&e #o er!,'to@in gent Orange i'' be e'igib'e to receive t&e disabi'it$ and &ea't& care bene!its t&e$ &ave earned !ordiseases 'inked to gent Orange e@#os,re D,ring t&e ietna" Far% t&e - S "i'itar$ s#ra$eda##ro@i"ate'$ 20 "i''ion ga''ons o! gent Orange in ietna" to re"ove ,ng'e !o'iage ?&is to@icc&e"ica' &ad devastating e!!ects !or "i''ions serving in ietna" *n 1((1% .ongress #assed a 'a re+,iring
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t&e eterans d"inistration C to #rovide #res,"#tive coverage to ietna" veterans it& i''nesses t&att&e *nstit,te o! Medicine &as direct'$ 'inked to gent Orange e@#os,re Ho ever% in 2002 t&e deter"ined t&at it o,'d on'$ cover eterans &o co,'d #rove t&at t&e$ &ad orders !or Nboots on t&egro,nd d,ring t&e ietna" Far ?&is e@c',sion a!!ects as "an$ as 250%000 sai'ors &o "a$ &ave sti''received signi!icant gent Orange e@#os,re !ro" receiving bene!its

NBeca,se o! tec&nica'it$ in t&e 'a % &,ndreds o! t&o,sands o! "erican veterans are being denied t&e bene!its t&e$ need and deserve% Senator ;i''ibrand said NO,r govern"ent ",st !,'!i'' its co""it"ent tot&e service "e"bers &o &ave !a''en victi" to gent Orange=re'ated disease and enact ne 'egis'ation t&at

i'' #rovide o,r vets it& t&e disabi'it$ co"#ensation and &ea't&care bene!its t&e$ &ave earned gentOrange is a ver$ di!!ic,'t c&a#ter in o,r nation s &istor$ *t is ti"e t&at e correct t&e errors o! t&e #ast

N?&is is a 'egac$ iss,e t&at needs to be dea't it&% said Senator ;ra&a" N?&ere are ietna" vets &o ares,!!ering !ro" gent=Orange re'ated i''nesses and e need to ens,re t&e$ are getting t&e care t&e$ need*t s no ti"e to ens,re t&e govern"ent takes care o! t&eir needs &ic& ere inc,rred d,ring t&eir de!enseo! o,r nation

D,ring ietna"% t&e - S "i'itar$ s#ra$ed 20 "i''ion ga''ons o! gent Orange B',e Fater av$ ets Kveterans &o ere on d,t$ in t&e aters aro,nd ietna"% b,t did not &ave Nboots on t&e gro,nd K ereo!ten e@#osed to gent Orange on a dai'$ basis St,dies &ave s&o n t&at gent Orange conta"inated t&e

ater so,rces on s&i#s% a!!ecting veterans onboard s&i#s or aircra!t t&at trans#orted barre's o! gentOrange% and s&i#s and aircra!t de#'o$ed in c'ose #ro@i"it$ or even do n ind !ro" gent Orange dro#sites

Ma$ 2011 re#ort b$ t&e *nstit,te o! Medicine estab'is&ed severa' N#'a,sib'e ro,tes !or gent Orangee@#os,re t&ro,g& t&e ater disti''ation #rocess aboard av$ s&i#s and t&ro,g& t&e air *n 2010% a st,d$ b$t&e *nstit,te o! Medicine cited e@#os,re to gent Orange res,'ted in an increased c&ance o! deve'o#ingserio,s &eart #rob'e"s and Parkinson s disease 1((0 st,d$ b$ t&e .enters !or Disease .ontro' andPrevention .D.C s&o ed ietna" veterans &ad a rate o! non=Hodgkin)s '$"#&o"a 50 #ercent &ig&er t&ant&e genera' #o#,'ation gent Orange is 'inked to a range o! ot&er diseases% inc',ding severa' b'ood andres#irator$ cancers% t$#e ** diabetes% #rostate cancer and "ore

*n 2005% t&e s !or"er Director o! Anviron"enta' gents Service Dr Mark Bro n #,b'ic'$ackno 'edged t&at t&ere as no scienti!ic basis !or t&e e@c',sion o! B',e Fater ietna" veterans% b,t t&e

&as contin,ed to re!,se t&ese veterans t&e #res,"#tive bene!its .ongress initia''$ intended *n &isartic'e in t&e Jo,rna' o! La and Po'ic$% Dr Bro n rote% NScience does not back ,# t&e s #o'ic$ ont&e av$

Senators ;i''ibrand and ;ra&a" introd,ced t&e gent Orange A+,it$ ct o! 2011% &ic& o,'d c'ari!$ t&ee@isting 'a so t&at B',e Fater veterans o,'d be !,''$ covered b$ t&e i! t&e$ served it&in t&eNterritoria' seas% or a##ro@i"ate'$ 12 "i'es o!!s&ore o! ietna" ?&e bi'' o,'d "ake it easier !or t&e to #rocess ietna" Far veterans c'ai"s !or service=connected conditions and a''eviate a #ortion o! t&e

s back'og b$ e@tending #res,"#tive coverage o! gent Orange bene!its to t&ese veterans

112t& .O ; ASS1st SessionS 1E2(

?o a"end tit'e


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* ?HA SA ?A O6 ?HA - *?AD S? ?ASSe#te"ber 2


6/16

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eadModerator

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MBlue Water Agent Orange

;ibson Joins it& Bi#artisan ;ro,# o! .o''eag,es to 6ig&t !or Bene!its !or ietna" eteransLegis'ation o,'d cover B',e Fater eterans

Fas&ington% D. K .ongress"en .&ris ;ibson = >C% L'o$d Doggett D=? C% ?i" Fa'Q D=M C andDenn$ e&berg =M?C anno,nced toda$ t&e introd,ction o! 'egis'ation t&at o,'d e@tend coverage andassociated bene!its it& N gent Orange e@#os,re to an additiona' gro,# o! ietna" eterans H


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individ,a' veteran to #rove direct e@#os,re to gent Orange = a near'$ i"#ossib'e task d,e to a 'ack o!record kee#ing and t&e inabi'it$ to kno t&e #recise 'ocation o! dio@ins in t&e air and gro,nd ater r,no!! =and e@tends t&e sa"e #res,"#tion t&at c,rrent'$ e@ists !or veterans &o served on 'and and in'and

ater a$s *t o,'d a'so red,ce back'ogged c'ai"s b$ a,to"atica''$ covering c'ai"s !or disabi'it$co"#ensation !ro" t&ese veterans &o are s,!!ering !ro" diseases t&at t&e - S govern"ent &as 'inked to

gent Orange

?&e 'egis'ation as re!erred to t&e Ho,se .o""ittee on eterans !!airs

&tt#://t&o"as 'oc gov/cgi=bin/ Legis'ativeData #O66*.* L ?*?LA S * ? OD-.AD:?o a"end tit'e #, ??8

Posts: ?>66 7 egistered: -ue # )ovem3er ??aveBarker Posted Fed 25 Jan,ar$ 2012 01:24 Hide Post
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Mgent Orange: '#&abetiQed S&i#s List

*! $o,r vesse' is not inc',ded in t&e Mobi'e iverine 6orce% *S6 Division (< or 'isted designations see36ind >o,r S&i#3C% c&eck t&e a'#&abetiQed 'ist o! s&i#s be'o&tt#:// #,b'ic&ea't& va gov ge/s&i#'ist/'ist as#

?o searc& !or $o,r s&i#% 'ook ,nder t&e !irst 'etter o! t&e !or"a' s&i# na"e 6or e@a"#'e% i! $o,r s&i#)sna"e is Dennis J B,ck'e$% 'ook ,nder t&e 'etter 3D3 !or Dennis

S&i#s i'' be reg,'ar'$ added to t&e 'ist based on in!or"ation con!ir"ed in o!!icia' records o! s&i#o#erations .,rrent'$ t&ere are 214 s&i#s on t&is 'ist S&i# not on t&e 'ist and $o, t&ink it s&o,'d beT&tt#:// #,b'ic&ea't& va gov 'ist/not=on='ist as#

2 0ill cast no stones( roud mem3er of the +Militar'(com is the original home of the +erelict eterans roup,+ , esta3lished +ecem3er >#, ??8


aveBarker

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Posted Mon 02 #ri' 2012 05:42M Hide Post

* sa no co#$rig&t on t&is artic'e

?HA 6-LL S?O >: ?HA )S F ; * S? *A? M > A?A S

B$ Patriot= e s O#=Ad ?&e Patriot= e sB> BOB 6O D

?&e -SS ona'd eagan and &er ga''ant cre o! "en and o"en recent'$ #er!or"ed a &eroic service !or

t&o,sands a!ter t&e devastating eart&U+,ake and ts,na"i on t&e east coast o! nort&ern Ja#an ?&e$ ,stdon t kno it $et

P&oto taken b$ Da'e Daven#ort% a av$ #,b'ic a!!airs o!!icer d,ring t&e ietna" ar *t s&o s - S av$S&i#s it& t&e coast o! ietna" c'ear'$ visib'e in t&e backgro,nd

?&e eagan% and &er carrier strike gro,#% -SS .&ance''orsvi''e and -SS Preb'e% ere near'$ 100 "i'eso!!s&ore &en t&e$ ere eng,'!ed b$ &at t&e av$ described as: N "ont& s radiation in ,st one &o,r?&e t& 6'eet co""and +,ick'$ re#ositioned t&ese s&i#s a!ter conta"ination as detected aboard *!an$one in Fas&ington &as co""on sense% t&e incident s&o,'d bring an end to t&e 'ong and contentio,s

ar b$ t&e De#art"ent o! eterans !!airs against sai'ors o! t&e ietna" Far &o ere e@#osed to

gent Orange

B,t beca,se Fas&ington% D . % is t&e 'ast #'ace an$one o,'d e@#ect to !ind co""on sense% and beca,set&is stor$ invo'ves t&e orst in b,rea,cratic con!,sion and ine#tit,de as e'' as a ca''o,s disregard !or t&e

#'ig&t o! "en &o once sai'ed in &ar" s a$ in o,r nation s de!ense% t&is stor$ is being ritten !ro" as"a'' to n in Penns$'vania *t s a disgrace!,' nig&t"are not on'$ to t&ese veterans% b,t in "an$ casest&eir !a"i'ies it& on'$ t&e ido s 'e!t to !end !or t&e"se'ves as t&eir &,sbands &ave #aid t&e ,'ti"ate

#rice !or serving t&eir co,ntr$

?&e av$ veterans &o are sti'' a'ive are a'' over 50 ?&e$ "anned t&e decks o! t&e greatest nav$ in t&e
http://www.publichealth.va.gov/exposures/agentorange/shiplist/list.asphttp://www.publichealth.va.gov/exposures/agentorange/shiplist/not-on-list.asphttp://forums.military.com/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=9741997006http://forums.military.com/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=9741997006http://forums.military.com/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=9741997006http://void%280%29/http://forums.military.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8280047191001/m/1580019280001?r=7360039882001#7360039882001http://www.publichealth.va.gov/exposures/agentorange/shiplist/list.asphttp://www.publichealth.va.gov/exposures/agentorange/shiplist/not-on-list.asphttp://forums.military.com/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=9741997006http://void%280%29/


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or'd% on s&i#s 'arge and s"a''% deter"ined "ost'$ b$ t&e ',ck o! t&e dra nd it as t&is ',ck o! t&edra t&at &as no 'e!t t&e "a orit$ o! t&e" it&o,t bene!its !or t&eir service Senior b,rea,crats in t&e- S De#art"ent o! eterans !!airs see" re'ent'ess'$ deter"ined to #revent av$ veterans o! t&e

ietna" Far !ro" receiving bene!its t&at are a,to"atica''$ granted to a'' ot&er ietna" veteranseterans !!airs o!!icia's "ade a decision to c,t o!! #revio,s'$ granted bene!its b$ reinter#reting t&eir

o n reg,'ations% and as a res,'t% &ave 'e!t t&o,sands o! av$ veterans to s,!!er and die it&o,t disabi'it$and &ea't& bene!its !ro" t&e govern"ent t&at sent t&e" to t&at distant ar *t as a ar t&at * !ir"'$

be'ieve ca,sed t&eir i''nesses

gent Orange is t&e ter" ,sed to describe t&e dio@in='aced &erbicides t&at ere re#eated'$ s#ra$ed overietna" to de!o'iate t&e ,ng'es ?&e goa' as to e'i"inate &iding #'aces !or ene"$ so'diers ?&e ter"originated !ro" t&e orange stri#e aro,nd t&e barre's o! c&e"ica's Most o! t&is dead'$ st,!! as !'o n o,to! t&e 'arge base at Da ang% ietna"% ,nder t&e "ission ter" O#eration anc& Hand Litera''$% tons o! it

ere d,"#ed b$ ",'tiengine aircra!t% o!ten t&ree and !o,r abreast On t&e one &and% it did its ob -nto'dacres o! ietna" s ,ng'es ere t,rned into a dead'$ aste'and B,t it a'so e@#osed "erican service"enand o"en to a c&e"ica' t&at no &as t&e" d$ing on average 1< $ears ear'ier t&an t&eir co,nter#arts &odid not serve in ietna" ?&is des#ite t&e "an,!act,rers% Do .&e"ica' and Monsanto% ass,ring t&egovern"ent% t&at a'' as sa!e

!ter $ears o! denia' in a #ro'onged batt'e b$ ietna" veterans% t&e govern"ent !ina''$ ackno 'edged t&edisabi'ities 'ike'$ ca,sed b$ gent Orange% and a s$ste" as estab'is&ed to #rocess c'ai"s !or t&ose &ono &ave one or "ore o! t&e diseases recogniQed b$ t&e as 'ike'$ 'inked to e@#os,re to t&esec&e"ica's ?&e ationa' cade"$ o! Sciences as c&arged it& deter"ining &ic& diseases ereconnected to gent Orange ?&e 'ist inc',des "an$ cancers% ",'ti#'e "$e'o"a% t$#e 2 diabetes andParkinson s disease% a"ong ot&ers

?&e gent Orange ct o! 1((1 #rovided !or bene!its to a'' &o &ad earned t&e ietna" Service Meda'd,ring t&e 10=$ear ar ?&e 'egis'ation as c'ear: n$one &o served% &et&er on 'and or sea% as

#res,"ed to &ave been e@#osed to gent Orange 6or "an$% it as too 'ate% inc',ding Lt A'"o V," a't ***% t&e son o! t&en ice d" A'"o V," a't Jr% co""ander o! ava' 6orces% ietna" ?&e$o,nger V," a't as a s i!t boat ski##er &o died o! cancer in 1(88 at age 42 *t a'so as too 'ate !or"$ !riend% Marine .a#t obert B Sc&o''% &o" * &ad ta'ked into oining ,# it& "e in 1(58 Bob !'eo, ere t&ere% $o, &ave it% $o, are e'igib'e B,t s&a"e!,''$% t&at is nott&e a$ it orks !or av$ veterans s !ar as t&e is concerned% "ost av$ ietna" veterans erenever t&ere and are not entit'ed to gent Orange bene!its% even t&o,g& t&e govern"ent o! ,stra'ia &ass&o n t&at its ietna" nava' veterans are d$ing at a &ig&er rate t&an co,nter#arts &o served on t&egro,nd

b,rea,crats did not see" to ar" to t&e idea o! gent Orange bene!its in t&e !irst #'ace ?&is asso"et&ing t&at &ad been i"#osed ,#on t&e" b$ .ongress *"#'e"enting t&is ne disabi'it$ bene!it asgoing to be c,"berso"e% cost'$ and i"#ose ,#on t&eir a,t&orit$ to deter"ine &ic& veterans o,'d get

&at evert&e'ess% in 1((0% reg,'ations de!ined service in ietna" to inc',de Nservice in t&e aterso!!s&ore or service in ot&er 'ocations i! t&e service invo'ved visitation in ietna" ?&,s% &en t&e gentOrange ct as #assed b$ .ongress% t&e si"#'e a$ to deter"ine e'igibi'it$ !or an$ veteran &o as


10/16

diagnosed it& one o! t&e re'ated disabi'ities as #roo! o! service in ietna"*nitia''$% e'igib'e veterans% inc',ding av$ veterans% a##'ied !or and received t&e disabi'it$ bene!its to

&ic& t&e$ ere entit'ed

B,t in 2001% ;eorge F B,s& and &is ad"inistrative tea"% "an$ o! &o" avoided service in ietna"%ere ca''ing t&e s&ots Fit&in a $ear% B',e Fater av$ veterans o,'d be stri##ed o! t&eir e'igibi'it$ !orgent Orange bene!its ?&e B,s& ad"inistration b,rea,crats said t&at sai'ors &o served aboard s&i#s

o!!s&ore co,'d not &ave been e@#osed to gent Orange On'$ t&ose &o co,'d #rove t&e$ &ad 'e!t t&e s&i#and set !oot in ietna" o,'d be e'igib'e !or bene!its Man$ av$ veterans a'read$ receiving bene!its &ad

t&eir disabi'it$ revoked and #a$"ents sto##ed e c'ai"s ere denied% and it as 'e!t to eac& individ,a'to #rove on a##ea' t&at &e as e@#osed ,nder t&e ne r,'es S,dden'$% t o ne ter"s entered t&eietna" &istor$ books: Bro n Fater av$ and B',e Fater av$

Bro n Fater av$ veterans are e'igib'e !or gent Orange bene!its B',e Fater av$ veterans are not?&e Bro n Fater av$ re!erred to boats and s&i#s t&at o#erated on in'and ater a$s s,c& as s i!t boatsski##ered b$ V," a't and b$ Lt Jo&n err$% t&e !or"er #residentia' candidate *t a'so inc',ded a !e'anding s&i# tanks and ot&er a"#&ibio,s nava' s&i#s and 'anding cra!t ?&e B',e Fater av$ asco"#osed o! 'arger s&i#s t&at o#erated "ain'$ on t&e o#en seas% #artic,'ar'$ at >ankee Station in t&e?onkin ;,'!% an$ &ere !ro" severa' "i'es to 50 or "ore "i'es o!!s&ore ?&ese ere t&e ca#ita' s&i#s o!t&e av$ and t&eir escort and s,##'$ vesse's -nder t&e "odi!ied r,'es% sai'ors serving aboard a B',eFater s&i# &ad to doc,"ent #roo! t&at t&e$ &ad gone as&ore in ietna" 6e sai'ors co,'d "ake t&isc'ai"% and even !or t&ose &o co,'d !o,nd sec,ring act,a' #roo! ne@t to i"#ossib'e in "an$ cases

*ronica''$% t&ere is ",c& scienti!ic evidence to #rove t&at B',e Fater sai'ors ere not on'$ e@#osed togent Orange% b,t #robab'$ to a greater degree t&an troo#s on t&e gro,nd Beca,se o! t&at evidence%

sai'ors !ro" ,stra'ia are granted disabi'it$ bene!its !or gent Orange ,st as - S sai'ors ere ,nti' 2002,stra'ia cond,cted e@tensive "edica' and scienti!ic researc& !ro" "an$ so,rces% and t&e govern"ent

conc',ded t&at its sai'ors and s&i#s ere e@#osed to gent Orange &i'e sai'ing o!! t&e coast o! ietna"and t&at t&e ater disti''ation #rocess t&en in ,se b$ ,stra'ians% as e'' as t&e - S av$% 'ike'$ "ade t&econta"ination orse ?&e "ost i"#ortant evidence is t&at ,stra'ia s sai'ors% "ost o! &o" sta$edo!!s&ore% are contracting gent Orange cancers at a &ig&er rate t&an ,stra'ian veterans &o served ont&e gro,nd in ietna"

sai'or)s i"age is re!'ected in t&e ietna" Far Me"oria' in Fas&ington D . P P&otoC

?&e ,stra'ians did not reac& t&eir conc',sions 'ig&t'$ ?&eir scienti!ic st,dies ere t&oro,g& ande@&a,sting '' t&e evidence as t&ere% and t&e govern"ent o! ,stra'ia acted according'$% in 200Egranting gent Orange bene!its to t&e ver$ sai'ors &ose s&i#s sai'ed a'ongside o,rs *n t&e -nited States%

b,rea,crats a'so res#onded +,ick'$ ?&e$ began to nit#ick #otentia' !'a s in t&e ,stra'ian scienti!icst,dies ?o do ot&er ise o,'d endanger t&eir o n #ositions

B,t B',e Fater sai'ors ere not going +,iet'$ 6or"er av$ ."dr Jonat&on L Haas% &o &ad served inietna" aboard t&e a"",nition tender -SS Mo,nt at"ai% a##ea'ed &is 2004 denia' o! bene!its to t&e

- S .o,rt o! ##ea's !or eterans .'ai"s s #art o! &is c'ai"% Haas testi!ied t&at c'o,ds o! gentOrange #ro#e''ed b$ o!!s&ore #revai'ing inds covered &is s&i#% ",c& 'ike &at occ,rred in Marc& 2011to t&e -SS eagan batt'e gro,# o!! Ja#an Haas as re#resented b$ t&e ationa' eterans Lega' ServicesProgra" and oined b$ a !riend=o!=t&e=co,rt brie! !ro" t&e "erican Legion

. . agreed it& Haas t&at t&e reg,'ation c&ange b$ t&e as i"#ro#er% a decision t&at e!!ective'$o,'d &ave restored bene!its to ever$one i! acce#ted b$ t&e ?&e % &o ever% re!,sed t&is c&ange

and a##ea'ed t&e . . decision to t&e - S .o,rt o! ##ea's !or t&e 6edera' .irc,it% &ic& overt,rned. .% r,'ing t&at t&e &ad a,t&orit$ to c&ange t&e r,'es ?&e a##ea's co,rt did not% &o ever% r,'e on


11/16

&et&er t&e s rationa'e !or "aking t&e c&anges as so,nd

?&e - S S,#re"e .o,rt event,a''$ dec'ined to &ear Haas !,rt&er a##ea'% and in Jan,ar$ 200(% B',eFater c'ai"s% &ic& &ad been #,t on &o'd #ending t&e o,tco"e o! Haas% ere no ordered to be

#rocessed% "eaning t&e$ o,'d again be denied it&o,t #roo! o! Nboots on t&e gro,nd *t didn t "atter tot&e t&at Haas &ad #roved &is case be!ore . . or did it "atter t&at t&e govern"ent o! ,stra'ia sevidence &ad no been rein!orced b$ - S st,dies% in #artic,'ar% t&e Se'ected .ancers St,d$ b$ t&e.enters !or Disease .ontro' and Prevention in 1((0% &ic& s&o ed t&at veterans &o served in ietna"&ad a ",c& &ig&er rate o! non=Hodgkin s '$"#&o"a% 50 #ercent% t&an veterans !ro" t&e sa"e era &o did

not go to ietna" ?&ese !indings ere 'arge'$ res#onsib'e !or t&e s,bse+,ent #assage o! t&e gentOrange ct o! 1((1% b,t t&ere as a s#eci!ic #art o! t&e .D. st,d$ t&at s&o,'d &ave raised t&e sa"ea'ar"s t&at ent o!! in ,stra'ia

?&e st,d$ conc',ded t&at o! a'' t&ose "i''ions% and a'' t&ose ,nits and designations invo'ved% t&e &ig&estincidence o! non=Hodgkin s '$"#&o"a as e@#erienced b$ none ot&er t&an t&e sai'ors &o served aboards&i#s o!! t&e coast o! ietna" Fe no &ave t o st,dies b$ t o govern"ents% one t&at s&o s t&at

ietna" veteran sai'ors% "ost o! t&e" B',e Fater% &ave a &ig&er rate o! a'' gent Orange cancers% and t&eot&er t&at s&o s t&e$ a'so &ave a &ig&er rate o! one gent Orange cancer st,died% non=Hodgkin s'$"#&o"a nd e &ave a govern"ent b,rea,crac$ t&at &as been !ig&ting !or a'"ost 10 $ears to den$

bene!its to t&ese sa"e veterans Ho o,'d $o, e@#'ain itT

?&e as beginning to !ee' t&e &eat !ro" B',e Fater sai'ors and t&eir advocates ?&e sai'ors ereorganiQing ?&e B',e Fater av$ ietna" eterans ssociation as !or"ed as as t&e eterans

ssociation o! Sai'ors o! t&e ietna" Far ationa' veterans organiQations contin,ed to voice s,##ort%and ever so s'ig&t cracks began to a##ear in t&e r,'es

6ort,nate'$% !or veterans% t&ere is a #art o! t&e s$ste" ca''ed t&e Board o! eterans ##ea's ?&eB as estab'is&ed !or an obvio,s #,r#ose 'ike t&e .o,rt o! ##ea's !or eterans .'ai"s ?&e B ist&e initia' a##ea' #rocess !or veterans &en t&eir c'ai"s &ave been denied b$ t&e regiona' o!!ice &eret&e$ originate *t is a veteran=!riend'$ setting% as it is not an adversaria' #rocess ?&ere is no one !ro" t&e

t&ere to o##ose t&e veteran s arg,"ents% b,t veterans can &ave a 'a $er or ot&er advocate #resentt&eir case i! necessar$ ?&e B is rig&t across t&e street !ro" t&e % b,t it is a &o'e ne or'd !orveterans seeking ,stice as t&e sta!! is &ig&'$ #ro!essiona' and co""itted to correcting "istakes anda##'$ing so,nd bene!it=o!=t&e=do,bt ,dg"ent to its decisions ?&at obvio,s'$ doesn t "ean t&at a##e''antveterans are a' a$s going to in% b,t i! t&e$ #resent so'id evidence% t&e$ &ave a c&ance *t as at t&eBoard o! eterans ##ea's t&at a decision as "ade in 2004 t&at s&o,'d &ave c&anged t&e entire co,rseo! t&e iss,e o! t&e B',e Fater av$

On J,'$ 2(% 2004% t&e B r,'ed Da ang Harbor an in'and ater a$ ?&e r,'ing invo'ved t&e -SSic&"ond ?,rner .;=20C Here is t&e ording: N?&e evidence o! record c'ear'$ s&o s t&at Da ang

Harbor is e'' s&e'tered and s,rro,nded on t&ree sides b$ t&e s&ore'ine o! ietna" "a# s,b"itted b$t&e veteran and &is re#resentative indicates t&at t&e &arbor is near'$ tota''$ s,rro,nded b$ 'and and t&at t&eentire &arbor is 'ocated it&in t&e territoria' bo,ndaries o! ietna" 6,rt&er% t&e veteran s descri#tion o!&is abi'it$ to observe t&e activities on t&e s&ore'ine is consistent it& t&e "a# s indication o! t&e

#ro@i"it$ o! t&e 'and given t&e 'ocation o! t&e &arbor as being s,rro,nded b$ t&e 'and on t&ree sidesand t&e evidence t&at t&e &arbor is it&in t&e territor$ o! ietna"% and reso'ving a'' do,bt in t&e veteran s!avor% t&e board !inds t&at Da ang Harbor is an in'and ater a$ !or t&e #,r#oses o! t&e reg,'ationService connection !or diabetes "e''it,s is granted

Later B decisions r,'ed Da ang Harbor an in'and ater a$ as e'' *n an #ri' E% 200(% r,'inginvo'ving t&e -SS ?o ers DD;=(C% t&e B ca"e to t&e sa"e conc',sion it& si"i'ar evidence !ro"t&e veteran a##e''ant ?&e r,'ing states: NDa ang Harbor a##ears to be 'ocated on an interior river ?&e


12/16

cit$ o! Da ang is s,rro,nded b$ an interior ba$ as o##osed to &aving direct o#en sea access ?&e veteranre#orted being on'$ a !e !eet !ro" t&e soi' &i'e aboard t&e -SS ?o ers in t&e Da ang Harbor ?&e

board !inds t&at t&e evidence s&o s service in t&e interior aters o! ietna"% and conse+,ent'$% t&eveteran "eets t&e re+,isite ietna" service !or entit'e"ent to a #res,"#tion o! &erbicide e@#os,reService connection !or diabetes "e''it,s% t$#e ** is granted

ov 2% 200(% r,'ing invo'ving t&e -SS Ok'a&o"a .it$ .L;=5C ,sed t&e sa"e ords as t&e 2004decision ?&e sai'or invo'ved as granted #res,"#tive service connection !or diabetes "e''it,s based,#on &erbicide e@#os,re ?&e r,'ings% o! co,rse% co,'d c&ange ever$t&ing B r,'ings are not

#recedents% b,t in t&ese cases t&ere can be on'$ one inter#retation: Da ang Harbor is no considered anin'and ater a$ !or t&e #,r#oses o! t&e reg,'ation n$ "e"ber o! t&e cre aboard a s&i# &i'e it as inDa ang Harbor is considered to &ave served in t&e e#,b'ic o! ietna" and is granted a,to"atic

#res,"#tion !or e@#os,re to gent Orange ?&e +,estion is no 'onger i! t&e s&i# docked or anc&ored and&et&er an$one ent on 'and

?&is% o! co,rse% as big ne s Ho ever% t&ere as no anno,nce"ent o! t&is "a or r,'ing !ro" t&e instead t&e in!or"ation as #osted on t&e *nternet b$ t&e B',e Fater veterans gro,#s *n !act% t&ere &as

been no o!!icia' recognition at a'' !ro" t&e regarding t&e stat,s o! Da ang Harbor as deter"ined b$t&e Board o! eterans ##ea's% and c'ai"s are contin,ing to be rong!,''$ re ected *t see"s t&e &asc&osen to ignore t&e r,'ings it disagrees it&

s recent'$ as 200(% t&e re ected c'ai" re+,ests !ro" regiona' o!!ices it& t&e !o''o ing e@#'anation:N ?&e -SS *ngerso'' trave'ed ,# t&e Saigon iver on October 24t& and 25t& o! 1(E5 to !ire on ene"$

bases o ot&er ca#ita' s&i#s &ave been con!ir"ed b$ De#art"ent o! De!ense to &ave trave'ed t&e in'andater a$s !or &ic& &erbicide e@#os,re is conceded *n ot&er ords% ,n'ess $o, ere on t&e *ngerso''

back in E5% $o,r c'ai" is denied

B,t t&e .o"#ensation and Pension Service B,''etin o! Jan,ar$ 2010 added 1E s&i#s and severa'entire c'asses o! vesse's to t&e #res,"#tion 'ist s,c& as a'' 'anding s&i# tanks% a'' o! &ic&% &i'e ca#ita's&i#s% ere ,n!air'$ sta''ed as B',e Fater s&i#s &en t&e$% in !act% &ad been #roven Bro n Fater b$ t&eveteran c'ai"ants ?&ese s&i#s% 'ike t&e #revio,s Non'$ one s&i# *ngerso''% a'so &ad o#erated on t&eSaigon iver and so"e on t&e Mekong% Song Lon ?ao and Long Song ?ao rivers as e'' as .a" an&Ba$

?&e disabi'it$ c'ai"s t&at sai'ors !i'ed it& t&e ere "ost'$ not !or t&e"se'ves b,t rat&er it& t&e&o#e t&e$ co,'d so"e&o #rovide a s"a'' #ension% and "ore i"#ortant'$% !,'' "edica' bene!its% to t&eir

ives as t&e on'$ #ossib'e 'egac$ o! t&eir service to o,r co,ntr$ *n !ar too "an$ cases% beca,se t&e$ &ad been denied disabi'it$ bene!its% t&eir !inances &ad been de#'eted to t&e #oint &ere t&e$ kne t&eir

ido s o,'d be !acing #overt$ ?&is is t&e o,trage t&at &as been #er#etrated ,#on t&ese brave so,'s &oonce sai'ed in &ar" s a$ !or t&eir co,ntr$

*! $o, t&ink * a" e@aggerating% &ere are a !e #ostings $o, can easi'$ !ind on t&e *nternet at veteran=re'ated sites:NDoes an$one kno o! an$one diagnosed it& gent Orange=re'ated diseases &o served in t&e ietna"B',e Fater av$ 1(E =1(E(T M$ &,sband served aboard t&e -SS >orkto n% and &e is d$ing !ro" gentOrange=re'ated ',ng cancer Aven t&e doctors ad"it &is Wt$#e o! ce''s% etc % indicate gent Orangee@#os,re b,t is sti'' den$ing t&e c'ai" non$"o,s #oster on Se#t E% 2010

NP'ease s,##ort o,r vets% t&e$ deserve o,r res#ect * a" a #ro,d i!e o! a ietna" vet% and &e is nos,!!ering !ro" Stage 4 #rostate cancer He as onboard t&e -SS .onste''ation B',e Fater vets deservet&e sa"e co"#ensation as a'' ot&er ietna" vets Donna% J,'$ 2(% 2011


13/16

NM$ brot&er% ?o" La'iberte% is in t&e .ritica' .are .ardiac -nit at ?,!ts Medica' .enter in Boston 6or&i"% ti"e is r,nning o,t P'ease contin,e s,##orting bene!its !or t&e re"aining B',e Fater sai'ors LoriLa'iberte% ,g 2 % 2010

N 'itt'e 'ate !or "$ brot&er &o ent in &ea't&$% &ad t&ree B',e Fater to,rs in a" and died at 5E $earso'd it& 'iver% kidne$% #ancreas !ai',res and diabetes Fe b,ried &i" a!ter &e t&re ,# a'' &is o n b'ood!ro" a r,#t,red s#'een or #ancreas Ja"es% J,ne 15% 2011

N* a" rea''$ concerned abo,t &o * i'' 'eave t&is or'd% and &at i'' beco"e o! "$ onder!,' i!e o!

28 $earsT *t is a sad state o! a!!airs &en one &o serves t&eir co,ntr$% and is #,t in &ar" s a$% t&at o,rgovern"ent i'' not even ackno 'edge t&e B',e Fater av$ * a" as&a"ed o! "$ govern"ent ;ar$%J,'$ 1 % 2010

N* 'ost "$ &,sband in J,'$% 2010% !or non=Hodgkin s '$"#&o"a a!ter being diagnosed in J,'$ o! 200( M$&,sband as on t&e -SS L$nde Mc.or"ick DD;=8 !ro" 1 to 5 * t&ink it is #at&etic &at t&egovern"ent is doing to t&ese #oor g,$s and t&eir !a"i'ies O,r $o,ngest is on'$ 14 and as e@tre"e'$c'ose to &is dad M$ &,sband a##'ied !or bene!its in 200(% and e are sti'' aiting Ho do $o, e@#'ain to$o,r c&i'dren t&at t&e govern"ent is #robab'$ aiting ti'' e die be!ore t&e$ &e'# t&ose t&at &ave 'ostso"eone beca,se o! t&e" *t is ver$ sad t&at o,r govern"ent is doing t&is to t&eir o n #eo#'e% b,t are !irstto ,"# to &e'# ot&er co,ntries Lori Be',s% 6eb 20% 2011

M$ researc& !or t&is #iece discovered t&e Mc.or"ick as at Da ang Harbor and s&o,'d &ave been ont&e 'ist o! s&i#s t&at no +,a'i!$ !or gent Orange bene!its% b,t it sti'' isn t *n !act% t&e Mc.or"ick

as one o! t&e !e s&i#s t&at ca"e ,nder !ire !ro" ort& ietna" s&ore batteries are !ootage on t&e*nternet s&o s t&e s&i# being bracketed b$ g,n s#'as&es at seven "i'es !ro" s&ore% a't&o,g& t&ere ereno in ,ries Avidence &ere s&o,'d !ina''$ +,a'i!$ t&e ot&er cre "e"bers o! t&e Mc.or"ick !or bene!itsHo ever% as Lori Be',s c'ear'$ states% it is sti'' #at&etic &at t&e govern"ent is doing to t&ese "en%

beca,se non=Hodgkin s '$"#&o"a &a##ens to be t&e one disabi'it$ on t&e gent Orange 'ist !or &ic& a''ietna" veterans% inc',ding B',e Fater sai'ors% are covered e"e"ber t&at t&e .D. st,d$ s&o ed t&at

t&e &ig&est incidence a"ong a'' ietna" veterans it& non=Hodgkin s '$"#&o"a as% in !act% t&eveterans o! t&e B',e Fater av$ Lori Be',s &,sband a'read$ &ad a,to"atic #res,"#tion% and &is c'ai"s&o,'d &ave been a##roved be!ore &is ,nti"e'$ deat& ?&at raises anot&er dist,rbing +,estion F&$ ist&ere not e"ergenc$ #riorit$ !or gent Orange c'ai"s !ro" an$ ietna" veteranT ?&e govern"enta'read$ kno s t o t&ings abo,t t&ese c'ai"s: '' o! t&e veterans are over 50 $ears o'd% and an$ gentOrange c'ai" is a #ossib'e 'i!e=t&reatening sit,ation

?&e B r,'ed Da ang Harbor an in'and ater a$ "ore t&an seven $ears ago ?&at s seven $ears t&att&e co,'d &ave asked t&e De#art"ent o! t&e av$ to #rovide a 'ist o! ever$ t& 6'eet s&i# t&at sai'edinto Da ang Harbor and seven $ears in &ic& disab'ed av$ veterans co,'d &ave received bene!its andassistance !ro" t&eir govern"ent ,st as +,ick'$ as t&eir co,nter#arts !ro" t&e ot&er branc&es o! service?&is evidence s&o,'d ca,se t&e #resident to i""ediate'$ order t&e controversia' r,'e c&ange to bereversed and e'igibi'it$ !or bene!its to be not on'$ restored% b,t e@#anded% !or sai'ors &o "anned t&es&i#s o! t&e t& 6'eet Proo! t&at t&ese se#arate and c'ear r,'ings on Da ang Harbor &ave a##arent'$ goneignored b$ t&e b,rea,crac$ is to be !o,nd in instr,ctions to regiona' o!!ices &and'ing c'ai"s

Se#t (% 2010% "e"o !ro" t&e director o! co"#ensation and #ension service states: N.XP Serviceconsiders o#en ater #orts s,c& as Da ang% .a" an& Ba$ and ,ng ?a, as e@tensions o! ocean atersand not in'and ater a$s ?o !,rt&er de"onstrate &o ridic,'o,s t&is is% t&e .XP Service e@#'ains:N?&is is i'',strated b$ a +,ote !ro" t&e 1(E s&i# s &istor$ o! t&e -SS .'eve'and LPD= C% &ic& states:)Da ang Harbor is eas$ to enter d,e to being o#en to t&e sea ) ?&is is b,rea,cratic insanit$ at its best

n o!!&and +,ote !ro" a sai'or in 1(E % tota''$ "eaning'ess to t&e +,estion% &as been b'ocking bene!its totens o! t&o,sands o! veterans &o contin,e to s,!!er and die !ro" t&eir service &i'e so'id evidence to t&e


14/16

contrar$ &as been eva',ated and r,'ed ,#on on t&ree occasions b$ t&e Board o! eterans ##ea's

*t s s&a"e!,' *ndivid,a' sai'ors are 'e!t to t&e"se'ves to deve'o# a s,ccess!,' c'ai" !or gent Orange asnobod$ at t&e is going to &e'# t&e" *! t&e$ are ',ck$ eno,g& to 'earn abo,t t&e Da ang Harborr,'ing in t&e !irst #'ace% &ic& b$ a'' rig&ts s&o,'d "ake t&e" e'igib'e% t&e$ are to'd b$ t&e t&e$ ",st

#rovide t&e deck 'ogs o! t&eir s&i# to s,##ort t&eir c'ai" 6e veterans% and &ard'$ an$ s#o,ses orido s% kno &o to do t&is B,t t&e in!or"ation is t&ere% and an$one &o bot&ers to 'ook i'' see t&at

near'$ ever$ s&i#% i! not a''% t&at ent to ietna" !ro" 1(E2 ,nti' 1( 5 as at Da ang Harbor at so"eti"e% even t&e 'argest aircra!t carriers s,c& as -SS *nde#endence% itt$ Ha k% Anter#rise% Saratoga and

.ora' Sea So as t&e !a"ed batt'es&i# -SS e Jerse$% &ic& took &er #'ace at t&e NMan o! Far o,teranc&orage in Se#te"ber 1(E8% and t&e -SS 6o@ .;=


15/16


16/16

O .O &A!& -H.O H-.&) -H(((

#er Me"ber

HBGOF $"

Posted Mon 02 #ri' 2012 0E:2 M>S?A *O-S F >S H*S FO DA S ?O

PA 6O M

"FO. &- WHA- -H&/ SA/, WA-!H WHA- -H&/ +O"

Posts: > ##7 7 egistered: Wed ? +ecem3er ???

aveBarker Has Been"

eadModerator

ound Offorums

Posted Mon 02 #ri' 2012 0(:24M Hide Post

+,ote:*n t&e end% "a$ ;od bring rig&t!,' ,stice to ever$ sai'or &o ever set !oot on a - S av$ s&i# t&atserved in ietna" aters% no "atter &at t&e co'or o! ater ?&ere s&o,'d be no s,c& t&ing as a Bro nFater av$ and a B',e Fater av$ *t is a red% &ite and b',e av$ *t is o,r av$% and t&ese are and

ere o,r sai'ors *t is #ast ti"e o,r co,ntr$ treats t&e" 'ike t&e &eroes t&e$ are

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