bc safety authority power engineering consultation … · bc safety authority power engineering...

104
BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION 2016 These comments have been posted according to our Content Submission Guidelines. Includes comments received by: August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm Topic Number of Comments Model of recognizing foreign qualifications 206 Peer review panel to assess and make recommendations regarding applicants who hold foreign credentials 148 Proposed 3-year term for renewals of certificates of qualification 182 Proposal to require plant owners to register configuration 123 Other 2

Upload: others

Post on 11-Oct-2020

3 views

Category:

Documents


0 download

TRANSCRIPT

Page 1: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

BC SAFETY AUTHORITY – POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION 2016

These comments have been posted according to our Content Submission Guidelines.

Includes comments received by: August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm

Topic Number of Comments

Model of recognizing foreign qualifications 206

Peer review panel to assess and make recommendations regarding applicants who hold foreign credentials

148

Proposed 3-year term for renewals of certificates of qualification 182

Proposal to require plant owners to register configuration 123

Other 2

Page 2: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

PROPOSED MODEL OF RECOGNIZING FOREIGN QUALIFICATIONS

Question: In your opinion, is the proposed model for recognizing foreign qualifications for power engineering reasonable? [Yes/No]

Group Representation Position Comments

Power Engineer No There are no foreign programs that are comparable or compatible for working in a power engineering role in a a Canadian jurisdiction.

Power Engineer No Qualifications from outside of Canada have never been recognized in Canada as qualifying experience. To shortcut the current established practice for the sake of staffing of new LNG plants will jeopardize the safety and profession of Power Engineering.

Power Engineer Yes I agree with the stipulated process. However, this process may impose a large administrative burden.

Power Engineer Yes No comments

Power Engineer Yes Providing that all possible effort is made to hire Canadians first, not so industry cannot use it as a dodge to further depress our wages. Our trade has been "cheapened " enough.

Power Engineer No There should be absolutely no acceptance of foreign qualification in any trade in Canada including and especially British Columbia. BC safety authority has an obligation uphold the integrity and quality of the BC work force and ensure that only Canadian trained and qualified workers preform skilled work in this country. In addition, too many unqualified foreign workers are slipping through the cracks and taking jobs away from hard working Canadians who preform at a much higher level of quality and professionalism. Canadian jobs are for Canadians first ! Furthermore, speaking as a welder for over ten years every trade should be held to as high a standard as welding is and absolutely have a more rigorous certificate of qualification renewal plan. If you can't prove you can do the work as a professional than you don't deserve the work.

Power Engineer Yes I agree that we must have qualified workers to fill positions in Canada for the future, but they must take our Canadian qualifying examination for these position before entering Canada. I would just like to express

Page 3: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

my opinion. I have Five valid Canadian trades persons certifiactes Power Enineers, Red seal Interprovincial Journeyman Welders, 3rd class Marine Engineers Motor & steam & toolmaker machinist. But there seems to be discrimination on age in this Country, but not for Politicians.

Power Engineer Yes 1. As is already mentioned in documents I just red, it is hard to be employed without FIRING time. That means that employers want to hire experienced worker. They don't care to much about education of the worker, they are looking for someone who can jump in right away, so young man/women right after school have serious disadvantage. Same thing with foreign educated workers, as my self. I have B.Sc of Mechanical engineering, Department of Thermal technics, which means very wide education frompower generation, throug refrigeration, throug air conditioning etc. I passed 4th class certification, but they are looking for firing time. My formal education, after five years of University of Belgrade is much greater than class 4 or 3 or even class 2. What they are looking is experience, it is not true that they are looking for education. Between all of these classes you need to have required experience or number of years. If you are going continually through this process, you will need at least a decade or more. As you know it is hard to handle your shifts, your school and your family. I propose completely different approach for classes 1 and 2. You should have an University formal education in particular Power Engineering area, and after gaining some experience under professional engineers guidance, and passing professional engineering exam, you can be promoted to 1st or 2nd class. 3. For 3rd or 4th class you can do a lot through high schools. Level of education required for these classes are high school. I passed also 3A1 exam, so I can tell you that. I'm little bit slowing down in education, because it is hard to find job without prior experience here in Canada. It doesn't matter what scores you have on these exams if you don't have experience. Only lucky ones which have someone to provide them some experience are lucky to get a job in this industry. Put 4th and 3rd class through high school shops(which are very well equipped) you will no face shortages in this area.

Page 4: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

4.Look closely for foreign degrees or diplomas. Made a list of recognized institutions and you will be satisfied.

Power Engineer No We do have a lots of graduates who wanted to get into the industries, allowing more foreign will give the local lest opportunity to get in and be trained.

Power Engineer No There is no worker shortage. There are currently not enough jobs for what's here now. Bringing in people who will work for nothing demeans the program itself. If your going to bring in foreign workers then dissolve the power engineering program and deregulate everything.

Power Engineer No Because it is too difficult to monitor the plants outside Canada to ensure qualifications are similar

Power Engineer No Firing time and experience not allowable from Canadian armed forces. Yet we should now be willing to accept questionable hours and training from foreign countries. We have spent a lot of time money and effort to keep high standards, don't drop them. Quality and regulated firing time and education breeds competent operators.

Power Engineer No There is a glut of Power Engineers already who cannot acquire steam time to advance their careers. Introducing more personnel who are not trained in Canada will not help the trade.

Power Engineer No There are reasons why bc safety was created. How about enforcing your rules in local plants and refineries and expanding them more into pressure vessels and distance of boilers in one circuit. Too many businesses are cutting corners because these rules aren't defined. Plants in lower mainland are already being down graded classes. Losing many 3rd 2nd and 1st jobs already. Enforce the rules we have.

Power Engineer No Foreign qualifications differ from country to country. I think the proposed model is fine as long as only countries with similar safety standards to Canada are considered. My answer would be a yes is this was included in the proposal and a list of recognized countries was made.

Power Engineer No Concerns about authenticity of documentation

Power Engineer No Canada has many power engineers that are totally qualified to do the work. If it wasn't for the changes to the programs that caused engineers who studied hard to get their papers, only to have them taken away, there would be more Canadians that would love to get

Page 5: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

involved in power engineering. The decisions that the BC Authority has made in the last 5 years, including putting the wrong people in charge has caused a huge disappointment in power engineering careers.

Power Engineer No It would seem to me that this is being proposed to allow for more foreign workers to be able to be hired at a reduced wage by companies working within BC. Standards for qualifications and safety practices in many parts of the world, are not to the same level as they are in Canada.

Power Engineer No Seems to me that the focus should be on removing barriers to class progression of resident existing Canadian power engineers with out compromising safety, not reviewing and certifying Foreign qualifications considering the fact that the consultation found conflicting information on the question of a alleged power engineering shortage.

Power Engineer No It depends which part of the world person got his qualification and type of work experience

Safety Officer Yes BCSA is currently assessing foreign credential for power engineers for applicants having experience and education abroad, although it is not clearly stated in BC Reg. 104/ 2004. Hopefully, the regulation change will make it clear.

Power Engineer Yes I think that if you have had training from another country (depending on what country) you should have to take a test to confirm your education.

Power Engineer No Canada has the strictest requirements to become a power engineer. Accepting firing time with adequate proof would be reasonable To give qualifications based off of experience without the requirement to pass applicable power engineering examinations as is required for any power engineer in Canada compromises the power engineering community.

Power Engineer No There is no shortage of Power Engineers leaving schools. Many are unable to find work for various reasons such as oil/gas down turn, out sourcing of manufacturing facilities. A good Power Engineer is not just someone who is able to pass an exam, as I have met some who were extremely book smart but utterly clueless in the plant. In Canada, a freshly minted graduate can enter the work force and will

Page 6: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

have safety as the top priority in mind as that is hammered into our heads in school and during the coop term. Else where in the world, that might not be the same and attitude of workers can differ greatly. It is even scarier if those workers came from supervisor/management positions are end up getting a BC 2nd or 1st class certificate and are in charge of people and plant safety. The only way for this to work is if they pass all of the exams AND aquire the mandated firing time here in Canada.

Power Engineer No I do not feel that there is a need to recognize foreign-qualified power engineering candidates. If an individual wishes to progress "up the ladder" of qualification in this jurisdiction (or any other Canadian one that is part of the Standardized process), then writing a few exams shouldn't pose an undue hardship. I DO NOT agree with the inference that there is a shortage of power engineers within British Columbia-As expressed earlier, there may be a shortage of engineers willing to progress to 2nd and 1st class due to lack of opportunities (not employed at a plant of sufficient size) and/or lack of financial incentive. Before making things easier for foreign-qualified engineer candidates, a concerted effort should be make to ensure that 4th and 3rd class PE's are being encourage to progress.

Power Engineer No I can't find a job already - how is making it easier for foreign workers to fight over too few jobs already going to benefit me and all the other out of work Power Engineers?

Power Engineer No It is not reasonable. With the economy the way it is, and how difficult it is to find a job as a power engineer, I would say this would be the final nail in our "trade". Too many students are being pumped out of the schools, and so many are willing to volunteer for their firing time.

Power Engineer Yes I think this is an excellent idea and long overdue. IQAS have been assessing foriegn credentials effectively for many years. This will make a massive improvement for many experienced oil and gas operators trained and educated overseas such as UK, Norway USA and other mature oil and gas basins.

Power Engineer No If there is a shortage of qualified people we should look at our young power engineers and help them advance and train new local engineers first.

Page 7: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Power Engineer Yes I agree we should accept some foreign qualifications this is long over due. How do you intend on dealing with the lack of Canadian code and regulation requirements the foreign works will have. I believe this problem of a shortage of power engineers was created by the BCSA when they de-rated our qualification levels during the TILMA agreement process. More and more plants are now requiring higher levels of power engineers due to the changes made for TILMA If you want to help fix the shortage problem put our qualification levels back to where they were prior to TILMA BCSA likes to compare what is happening in the gas or electrical side to the power engineers, but yet the gas fitters that held a current ticket prior to TILMA were not de-rated, and yet power engineers were. BCSA created part of this problem and they need to look at fixing it without having us pay for it through a 3 year renewal process

Power Engineer No In my opinion foreign qualifications would not be sufficiently verifiable

Power Engineer Yes Unlike many professions, the model proposed for recognizing foreign power engineering credentials seems streamlined, and would not drive those attempting to get recognition into dire financial straits as it would, say, someone attempting to have their foreign medical credentials.

Power Engineer Yes as long as they have proof and references

Power Engineer No Should be more strict on foreign qualifications

Power Engineer No in my opinion, there is enough power engineers within Canada to fufill job openings. This is based on my own observations and talking with HR people within industry.

Power Engineer Yes Caution is needed as many foreign power engineers have inferior regulations to becoming power engineers.

Other – Pressure Welder No Our government should be spending more money on training people already in this country that need a good job, many studies point to a major shortage in the future. With the way industry is changing I believe the shortage will be much less than anticipated. We are already seeing this as industry cuts costs and jobs across the board.

Power Engineer No It is unfair that foreigners with no Canadian educational background be allowed to do jobs in Canada without having to go through the Canadian system.

Page 8: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Power Engineer Yes Vigorous competency testing should be done. There should also be a requirement to be fluid in the English language or, the normal language as it may be French. Language barriers can cause a big issue. Communication is key and when there are big gaps even though they are qualified, the understanding and time it takes for training becomes very time consuming and the trust that comes along with holding a certificate is compromised and, safety concerns arise as misunderstandings and shortcomings with procedural understanding can cause major upsets in plant operations.

Power Engineer No we are already over saturated in power engineers in the lower mainland. They should go through the process like every other power engineer did to get their 4th.

Power Engineer No Bcit, already has 2 full classes with 2-3 year wait. Instead of opening the gates to foreign workers, that have different codes and regulations at their plants. How about creating more Canadian power engineering programs at different institutes.

Power Engineer Yes It seems fair.

Power Engineer No Extremely difficult to verify qualifications and experience of foreign trained personnel.

Power Engineer No 1. How is the online basic assessment going to be regulated to ensure the applicants engineer friend is not doing the questionnaire for them? 2. If you guys are really concerned about a labor shortage, why are you not doing more to promote the industry in high schools and other sources (social media advertising), targeting the youth of BC or even all of Canada?

Student No We must give more incentives to Canadian residents to become skilled workers. We need to empower our own communities not bring in foreign workers.

Power Engineer Yes The stated process does seem like it would be suitable for determining foreign candidates suitability for qualification so long as the standards meet or exceed those that Canadian Power Engineers are subjected to.

Power Engineer No Opportunities for Canadian Citizens should be heightened. relationships between employers and schools that teach Power engineering should be in close contact. Their is no reason to grant

Page 9: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

permission to non-citizens when their are citizens who hold qualifications and need employment.

Power Engineer No I think that recognizing foreign qualifications opens the door to more lax safety observance, and lax qualifications

Power Engineer No How would we validate their firing time?

Power Engineer No I done know what the "Proposed Model" is.

Power Engineer Yes The qualification standards must be kept high to maintain a safe standard. This will reduce the amount of foreign applicants from sub par or even fake schools achieving a power engineer certificate.

Power Engineer No There are many, many 4th and 3rd class power engineers wanting and willing to progress all the way to 1st class and unable too due to not getting their foot in the door or due to the firing time/experience obstacle. There should be a training facility in place to provide firing time to the higher classes, whether it be through simulations for each industry or a plants that have positions that hire on contract for duration of firing time to allow those wishing to progress to do so. ( the benefit to the companies would be not having to pay into benefits or commit to have a full time employee, yet always have a position filled.)

Power Engineer Yes Would members of the Canadian Military be now able to apply for recognition of their qualifications they have attained while serving the country? I had to beg steal and borrow to be recognized as a simple fourth class when I feel I was doing more while serving in the Navy for 23 years.

Power Engineer No Certification accredited from applicants outside of Canada should be limited to Fourth or Third Class. There is no way a foreign trained applicant should be able to get a Second or First Class certificate without going through the process of what a Canadian applicant should have to. They should also be subjected to rigorous testing on ASME Codes and adopted safe operating procedures that are adopted. Some of the most dangerous people I have worked with are foreign trained people because they have a utter disrespect for safety rules and regulations.

Power Engineer No Your discussion paper is very poor. I don't see what the proposal actually is. There is already a large number of unemployed power engineers in Canada. they should be given every opportunity to utilize

Page 10: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

their training. Companies need to be willing to train their own people to allow them to advance. There is a lot of companies who don't promote job or training advancement. As a very last resort, foreign workers could be utilized but they should be writing a competency exam to see where their skills are knowledge and hands on.

Power Engineer No I think you must be certified in Canada . And write your test in Canada ;Therefore , the Canadian Saftey authority can have more control over who is certified to work Saftley in Canada

Power Engineer No I am not so familiar with this item. I've read the consultation paper but it's vague to me. Recognizing foreign qualifications, at what Power Engineering Class they can be recognized?

Power Engineer Yes All foreign workers should be fluent in English, and also go through the same process as Canadians do in acquiring certification. Canadians should have first choice when being considered for employment however.

Power Engineer No No idea. Just taking a guess.

Power Engineer Yes Are there foreign programs that are comparable or compatible for working in a power engineering role in a Canadian jurisdiction?

Power Engineer No This would undermine the strength of our certification process. The short term gains would not be worth it .

Power Engineer No Many foreign countries do not have the same level of professionalism and standards which have been developed in Canada over many years in Power Engineering. I have spoken to colleagues who have worked in other countries. The impressions I got from them was that the plants they worked in were staffed by untrained personnel who simply folowed orders and really had no comprehention of the processes or theories related to operation of what would be regulated plants here. I don't feel that it is any more difficult for an immigrant with the required apptitude to follow the same path as any Canadian would follow to become a competent Power Engineer. I did not begin my career in Power Engineering until I was almost 30 year old and followed the regulatory path to obtain my 2nd Class Certificate.

Power Engineer Yes Yes it does seem reasonable as it provides stringent guidelines ( as it should ), however, bringing in foreign workers may also invite wage reduction. All PE workers in Canada must be given the opportunity first.

Page 11: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Power Engineer Yes The qualification must be thorough and rigorous. We have all worked very hard for our certificates and wouldn't want to see the pool "watered" down due to a perceived shortage. Confirm shortage, then develop this as necessary.

Power Engineer No As long as it does not result in Companies excluding Canadian PE's in favour of hiring tfw's or full times at a discount rate. And must prove that they have made every effort to either hire or advance a Canadian PE first.

Power Engineer No Canadian recognition is better for Canada in the long run.

Power Engineer No This opens the door for huge language barriers in the field. Also, developing countries that may have large numbers of people who work in a field considered acceptable for foreign qualification in BC often have a lower regard for safe work practices. It is just too important that the standard of qualification be uniform throughout to prevent cost-cutting by employers and corner-cutting by ill-trained/qualified workers. Carelessness costs lives in this field.

Power Engineer No Absolutely NOT. Why is it fair that they can get recognition on their work abroad when clearly each country has a different model when it comes to operations. Countries that have mechanical engineers running their operations are different from power engineers. They do not have the same level of training and they are "engineers" not operators. Professional engineers are very theoretical in nature and can use their skill sets towards engineering solutions but operations is different. Safety is different. In addition, how do you properly verify their work experience. Countries have different values and sometimes they can be corrupt values. If you decide to qualify some foreign nationals you will jeopardize plants all because they couldn't go through the proper channels of education and gaining steam time like every one else here had to. I don't get a job because companies aren't willing to hire and train for me to progress further. Here you're telling me that you want to give away these safety orientated jobs to foreign nationals who arrived with "related experience" but a significantly different culture. I think that's slightly insane.

Power Engineer No In 2016 we have a market flooded with Power Engineers, Professional Engineers, and Trades in Canada. We haven't had a shortage of Power Engineers in recent history and with the amount of schools

Page 12: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

pumping out 3rd and 4th Class Power Engineers we aren't going to have a need for foreign workers. To give away Canadian jobs and dilute the workplace further is irresponsible.

Power Engineer No I think that it is important to work together with other countries within the Commonwealth to structure uniform requirements for Power/Stationary Engineering. Millwrights and Electricians have an easier time moving freely between the Commonwealth countries because of recognised qualifications. Power engineering should be no different. Often times in our plant foreign workers who have taken Canadian Power Engineering programs create extremely dangerous situations because of language barriers. Until a unified certification program can be recognised internationally, attempts like this are devaluing the hard work that people like myself and co-workers have put in to achieving our certifications.

Power Engineer No Different safety requirements in different countries is cause of concern. Allowing for safety violations that can harm both companies, community stakeholders and employees.

Power Engineer Yes Must be fairly intense process to keep quality of workforce intact.

Power Engineer No Personally I do not agree with any fast tracking of foreign applicants unless they are just given firing time only. They should all have to go through the same hurdles we have had to to achieve the same qualification. if they have the experience then it should be no problem for them to progress quickly through the exams and get their ticket that way. Along the same guidelines I feel they should have to write "our " exams in Canada's official languages.

Power Engineer Yes If we agree that we should allow foreigners to live in our country, then we should also allow them to earn a living using the skills they have attained. Proper assessment of foreign qualifications is imperative to the safety of all British Columbians.

Power Engineer No I am also a electrician and have seen first hand that foreign qualifications were allowed into the industry when the skill set and experience were entirely faked.

Power Engineer Yes It's a biggest barrier for someone migrating from other countries to achieve certification for the education recieved from their home country . The process should be made simple so that atleast who have got mamooth amount of education should get a opportunity to

Page 13: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

challenge exams directly . For this, assessment should be made based on previous education and candidate should get a chance to go and challenge any class of certification .

Power Engineer No Before recognizing foreign qualification, BCSA and other certify jurisdictions should create one standard power engineering ticket allowing for the free movement of labour through out Canada and its provinces.It is ludicrous that a power engineer certified in BC cannot work let say Ontario without applying to that jurisdiction certification board. Fixing this impediment to the movement of labour would greatly alleviate work force shortages. The days of Canadian workers living in one town, one region are long gone.

Power Engineer Yes The proposed model is overall reasonable because it helps bring fair competition, which is the fundamental principle to keep our economy strong.

Power Engineer No Training and qualifications of foreign workers is not to the same standards as ours.

Power Engineer No Your inquiry states that there is only a shortage of 1st and 2nd class Power engineers. •Written or oral examinations (At minimum, the foreign worker should have to write the Official Canadian regulated Power Engineering Exam). Again, this form has specifically indicated that there is a shortage of only 1st and 2nd Class Power Engineers. If your are hiring a foreign worker with that level of experience and education level, they should have no problem passing the Government regulated Exam and prove their experience. •Credential evaluation (by a regulatory agency or third party evaluation service) •Practical skills assessment (True 1st and 2nd Class Power Engineers, will have years under their belt, they should have no problem with the Practical assessment). Qualifications from outside of Canada have never been recognized in Canada as qualifying experience (a regulatory agency or third party evaluation service need to be created). To shortcut the current established practice for the sake of staffing of new LNG plants will jeopardize the safety and profession of Power Engineering. A database should be created listing the countries that educate Power Engineers, and that curriculum should be reviewed and assessed on an individual country's basis to determine a scale of equivalent competency and experience.

Page 14: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Power Engineer No As a power engineer with a long and enjoyable background in the marine industry, I have worked for , supervised and worked alongside many Nationalities. Even though these fine people gained Transport Canada certification, many were lacking in technical abilities, safety culture and yes, common sense. A few could not even speak English let alone French which are our official languages. Now these issues are very real and challenging in a large plant where communication and technical mistakes can lead to grave consequences. Some were very good at there position too. Also, the shortage is relieving due to the nature of our economy, and shifting globalization. Our plant used to have a shortage and now it is overflowing with engineers with more students on their way to jobs that do not exist. Just like the oil boom, the experts said that in a few years there would be over supply after the shortage and here we are. I am also cautious about employers input on shortage to drive wages and standard of living down in all sectors utilizing Power Engineers. Next it will be the trades. Lets take a breath here. Also, fraud and false documents and documentation is a concern in countries throughout the world where money can and does buy these documents.

Power Engineer No I agree with allowing foreign workers to accrue firing time when working on equivalently rated equipment internationally. However, the proposal to accept a foreign worker's experience and grant rather than earn a Power Engineering certificate is deeply flawed for a number of reasons. Our company has hired foreign workers with dismal results. The foreign workers we've hired consistently lack the skills (technical, personal & language) to perform effectively. Not one foreign worker has successfully completed their probationary period, resulting in much waste. A better proposal would be to grant international firing time (through a review) and allow foreign workers to seek employment and progress through the standard Power Engineering Program to properly prepare the individual for success in industry and ensure fairness for Canadians. To implement the current proposal creates unfair advantages to foreign workers and would create a discriminatory hiring environment for Canadian Power Engineers, leaving the current proposal open to legal challenges, media scrutiny, etc. The current Power Engineering qualification system consistently

Page 15: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

develops competent, skilled individuals that are valued in industry, why short-circuit this system to address a skills shortage that does not exist? Even a Canadian Engineer with a degree must write the Power Engineering exams, to grant a foreign worker certification through a subjective review would be a mistake.

Power Engineer No Should offer apprenticeships/bursaries for workers already living in CANADA.

Power Engineer No In my experience foreign qualifications have not prepared the individual for the work in Canada. The individuals I have worked with that were highly qualified in their country of origin experienced difficulty adapting to the industry expectations we adhere to based on regulations and legislation.

Power Engineer Yes If they have the same or high education and train they should be granted some recognition not a free pass!

Power Engineer No because the job field at the moment and most of the time does not support room for foreign workers. this field is not in crisis. if it happened to be one day. salaries would rise and more people would again fill positions in the field while taking relevant school courses and training.

Power Engineer No Validating their ticket would be difficult for many reasons, such as, different standards, ease of falsifying credentials and or work experience.

Power Engineer No response Limitations qualifications should be based on canadian standards set out in the country.

Power Engineer Yes As long as Canadian standards are upheld, it only makes sense to recognize experience and qualifications gained out of country. New immigrants and Canadians working out of country deserve credit where credit's due. However, care must be taken that this program does not follow in the footsteps of the Canadian Temporary Foreign Worker program. As we have seen, some companies will hire temporary foreign workers at reduced wages under the guise of labor shortages - this can not be allowed to happen in the Power Engineering profession.

Multi ticketed trades person, power engineer trainee

No Concern in regards to competency review

Page 16: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Steamfitter with 25 years heavy construction experience.

No Meeting 1 first discussion point says it all "without being able to provide higher wages". In heavy construction the Harper government allowed Temporary Foreign Workers to invade the industry and the only thing they did was bring in their poor quality of workmanship. Maybe a few had skills, but the vast majority are an embarrassment and a danger to work around. In the name of saving a few dollars in wages are the plant owners ready to have their facilities explode? Remember they will be bringing in their standards and believing they are sufficient. DO NOT TAKE THAT CHANCE.

Retired/ semi retired Yes Personally I would make any one applying provide proof of identity from visa ,then write an English associated exam the power engineers manual then write an exam on a level below his current claim.

Power Engineer No There's more than enough unemployed Canadian Power Engineers currently. There's no need for qualifying foreign workers. I also feel we should follow professions like doctors, when entering the country they have to pass the same exams as Canadian doctors in order to be certified. In my opinion we would be taking unnecessary risk by qualifying foreign workers here who do not apply the same safety standards as we do.

Power Engineer No I don't think there should be any full recognition of foreign qualification. I can see it being used in much the same way that a correspondence course gets firing time credit, but foreign workers should have to jump through the same hoops I did.

Power Engineer No I can not apply the same amount of rigor or verify qualifications outside of Canada which has severe impacts to the system.

Power Engineer No The model should be first developed to identify if/where comparable qualifications exist.

Power Engineer No Funny how at the upper end of the pay scale, they like to say "let the market decide the rate of pay", but at the lower end of the pay scale, they need to use outside forces to control the rate of pay. Seems to me if the rate is acceptable, you will have all the power engineers you will need.

Power Engineer Yes I think however that there are issues within the certification process that should be dealt with before discussing foreign qualifications being recognized.

Page 17: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Power Engineer Yes As long as the foreign Power Engineers meet the current qualifications, or meet other jurisdiction models/policies, and that in fact employers will not take advantage of these employees with lessor pay creating a tiered system, I don't see why we shouldn't fill the void in the labour shortage.

Power Engineer Yes we are a diversified country and so is our workforce.

Power Engineer No Offer these exception to Canadians first.

Power Engineer No I think that it is foolhardy to reduce our standards because of a shortage of qualified Power Engineers. Industry has not been interested in providing an avenue for new people to attain experience in Power Engineering. The Province will restrict worker ability to work in other parts of the country.

Power Engineer No From what I read, there was not enough information explaining the details of the proposed model. I don't agree with foreign workers taking our jobs. I think we can do a better job of educating younger people about the power engineering profession. As far as I'm concerned I've talked to too many people that still don't have a clue about power engineering and what we do. Personally, I think power engineering should be considered a trade. I think unless other countries have the same standards or better than Canada, they should not be considered unless they are willing to receive the same education and training.

Power Engineer Yes It is reasonable with the correct controls in place, including review of technology schools where training occurred, option to require exams be written if deemed necessary, full competency in written and oral English.

Power Engineer Yes I agree but need to have verifiable experience not only thru documentation but also by practical knowledge. Some countries can easily provide questionable documentation, rigid assessment of credentials and proven experience is necessary.

Power Engineer No First of all the ability of our young people to receive certification should be the focus to solve these problems. My son had a two year waiting period to get in the program at BCIT, and the pre-qualification seem excessive. Secondly I work in Alberta for a foreign company. They would love nothing better then to man the plant with only people from

Page 18: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

their country. The preset visa program is the only thing that has kept this in check.

Power Engineer No Not until there are international qualifications allowing Canadian power engineers to work in other countries. It is also not fair for students, trying to gain experience, to have to compete with foreign workers.

Power Engineer No I am concerned that despite best intentions any permission of this would inevitably lead to a 2 tier system. I also feel that there is an over abundance of power engineers in Canada who are unable to find work. It would be better to find a way for these PEs to gain employment rather than bringing in foreign workers.

Power Engineer No No all candidates should be required to complete all training required and not be provided with an easy route to circumnavigate lower ranking Canadian power engineers already in the workplace. Poor planning on behalf of provincial authorities and industry should not constitute a lowering of Canadian standards not rob Canadians of prospective job opportunities by foreigners.

Power Engineer No The proposed process is testing and evaluation that is far less rigorous than what Canadian workers go though. You risk creating a "two tier" system by implementing this.

Power Engineer Yes I feel that this is an acceptable model for testing qualifications of foreign power engineers.

Power Engineer No The labour demand/supply dynamics in any profession is always changing. The boom in the oil field about 10 years ago created a sudden surge in the demand for power engineers and caught the supply side by surprise. This sudden swing of imbalance created a panic in the industry and this anxiety peaked about 5 years ago when many plants had trouble even just to get 4th class engineers let alone 2nd or 1st class power engineers. The public and the educational institutions have since responded in a big way in terms of increasing the enrollment and production of power engineers. Both 3rd and 4th class engineers have been mass-produced the last few years to a point that I believe (based on the statistics in our plant's hiring) we are in a surplus situation now. Unlike the apprenticeship requirements on other main trades (electrical, millwright, instrumentation and pipefitting) which require intensive field experience before certifications can be granted. The production of 4th and 3rd class engineers is relatively

Page 19: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

easy. It only requires 1-2 years of full time enrollment in school with a 4 month practicum. While I do not have the hard fact on the supply of 2nd and 1st power engineers, my observation tells me that we will see more of these engineers in the near future. The demographics in the work place is changing rapidly. The boomers generation are being replaced by younger and more ambitious engineers. Many of them (at least within our plant) are actively pursuing higher level of certification within the next few years.The future of our industry is better served by leaders who have been trained within our system.These are the engineers who understand our law and legislation, uphold the standards and codes and follow best engineering practices. Bringing in foreign qualifications which come from a system that we are not familiar with especially in the leadership role (2nd and 1st class) is risky, would likely create a flood of 2nd and 1st class engineers and consequently negatively impact the young engineers who are working on these tickets. The standards practiced within the power engineering have been eroding over time. For examples: One essay type exam has been replaced with multiple choice, British Columbia used to have the highest standard in the country and would only recognize certifications from certain provinces is now accepting certifications from all provinces, 1st class certification used to be mandatory to be a boiler inspector now it is no longer a requirement plus others. In light of all the points I articulated above, I urge BC safety authority to consider this move seriously. There is a reason we require rigorous qualifications (practical and theory) to obtain certification - to protect lives and equipment. The continuing erosion of our standard and the motion to bring in foreign qualifications for leadership position would jeopardize the sound safety record we have enjoyed thus far.

Power Engineer No The proposed model for recognizing foreign qualifications is not even close to reasonable in every sense of the word. According to the discussion paper the "issue" is, "the projected long term demand for power engineers across all industry sectors in BC cannot be fulfilled by current levels of training by trade and post-secondary institutions." From what I know, and from what I have read, nothing can be further from the truth. I received my 4th Class certificate of qualification in

Page 20: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

May of 2015. There were 16 people in my class and at the moment 1 person is using their 4th Class certificate towards a job. Since then, many of us have gone on to successfully complete all (4) 3rd Class power engineering exams with the BCSA. No one can get a job because there is a severe lack of opportunities! Since I have graduated from college, the institution (along with all the other technical schools) continue to develop Power Engineers, further increasing the amount of qualified people. To suggest the FQR program to meet a labor market demand (especially without a lack of real evidence) is highly offensive to all the people who have grinded their way through school. I 100% wholeheartedly reject this proposed model.

Power Engineer No diminishing the value of certification

Power Engineer No NO. Talking about foreign qualifications is barking up the wrong tree. Our qualifications are based on examinations + experience aka firing time. Anyone good enough to pass our exams has proved their subject matter ability. This is completely non-discriminatory. You pass; your good. The time, trouble and expense of evaluating foreign credentials is bypassed. As are the inevitable appeals. Prep time for each exam is typically one to two months. Foreigners with strong backgrounds, for example grads of Russian power engineering universities (Ivanovo State Power Engineering University for one) could probably pass up to first blindfolded. Skip the evaluation nonsense, just give everyone the same exams.

Power Engineer No We have an over abundance of power engineers right now.

Power Engineer No There has always been a huge demand for doctors as well but do we ever see the college of physicians and surgeons accept foreign qualifications. Absolutely not. For two reasons - to uphold the standard and the wages of the physicians.

Power Engineer No As power engineers are generally employed in safety sensitive positions there needs to be a thorough system of licensing and qualification. The current system of exams and qualifying time serves this purpose well. To allow individuals, with foreign qualifications or otherwise, to bypass this progression is an affront to all the men and women who have worked tirelessly to develop the skills and

Page 21: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

knowledge necessary to be a successful power engineer. Additionally, the models reliance on mere declarations is ripe for abuse. Expecting people to tell the truth when there is the possibility of a well paying career on the line is foolish. BCSA will be consistently lied to, industry will suffer, and the safety of the workers and the public will be compromised. Furthermore, Your own research has already established that there is no shortage of power engineers. The only employers who are currently having trouble recruiting are those who are not willing to pay a living wage. By offering recognition of foreign qualification, you reduce the pressure on industry to raise wages to a reasonable standard. To offer recognition to those who have not completed the recognized career progression, when there are qualified Canadians who have is deplorable.

Power Engineer Yes As long as they have the proper credentials and is being validated by BCSA

Power Engineer No I do not feel other trades or degrees/education qualifies as a Power Engineer, that is why the ticket exists. In the past 20 years I have seen a significant decreases in Power Engineers knowledge and qualifications due to reduced firing time and supplemental education to qualify as a Power Engineering ticket or firing time. I understand the industry shortfall of Power Engineers but holding a high standard for firing time and Power Engineering schooling/knowledge is the safest avenue and the right direction. Example: If a foreigner or Canadian quality's as a second class power engineer due to other credentials there still needs to be a Government Exam through BCSA to test the persons knowledge of power engineering, and at least a few months of firing time on a Boiler etc. We need to look at other alternatives to reduce the shortfall of power engineers and promote our ticket encouraging the young generations to apply to the schools.

Power Engineer No At this time I do not believe it is reasonable as we need to get training of Canadian prospects in order first. Any effort should be channeled into increasing the quality of domestically produced power engineers. The volume of new engineers from schools such as VIU are far greater than needed indicating what has been stated, there is an over supply of power engineers. We have 6 students pass through our plant each year as Co-op students and the process is appalling. Programs

Page 22: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

like the VIU one do not produce quality engineers. I believe this is part of the reason they have such a hard time finding jobs. A company like mine would still be more inclined to hire a green engineer from a program like BCITs in spite of hosting VIU students.

Power Engineer Yes As long as applicants can meet the same standards and requirements as the rest of us. Pressures, flows, heating surfaces and power ratings are standard measurements and should be accepted across jurisdictions.

Power Engineer No Coming to BC from Alberta, I can honestly say that training for Power Engineers in BC is far below an acceptable level. You offer a two year program in one location, BCIT Vancover. The most expensive city in Canada. To address a perceived shortage of Power Engineers by immediately introducing foreign workers, to cover your own shortcomings in training facilities, is a disgrace.

Power Engineer No As a person who has worked with a foreign national with a negative result. I know there is a large difference between "qualified" and "competent". A competent power engineer has the ability to communicate, take direction, reason, troubleshoot, and critically think through a potentially dangerous situation. A qualified power engineer can pass multiple choice exams and progress through the system and have firing time "granted" without the necessity of communication or practical experience. (This does not only apply to foreign nationals) With the range of topics covered in the power engineering curriculum I fail to see how any degree could completely cover all topics under the 3rd class power engineering let alone 2nd and 1st. "At most" foreign education could "possibly" count for a portion of the required firing time similar to how the BCIT course applies to current firing time at the 4th class level. This industry needs Competent Power Engineers, not Qualified Power Engineers. Allowing foreign nationals to dilute the level of competency is a recipe for disaster.

Power Engineer No Should be allowed one level lower than what they operate at in their own country

Power Engineer No Must be Provincially or Inter Provincially certified. Just because there are labour shortages safety should not be compromised. Government should train / apprenticeship program support more and before labor shortages. This is another waste of time and money.

Page 23: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Power Engineer No did not understand the outcome of your report

Power Engineer No In my opinion, it is clearly documented that there is in fact NOT a shortage of Nationals involved in the profession. Furthermore, better equivalency evaluation of fringe groups, DND/Military for example, would add greatly to the numbers.

Power Engineer Yes TFW's should have to follow the same protocol as any canadian citizen in obtaining their power engineering certificate. Yes, their mechanical engineering degree can be recognized to a certain extent. But they should NOT be issued tickets without the required firing time. I believe cutting their firing time in half or 3/4 is reasonable.

Power Engineer No Bcsa needs to make the exams easier for us that are not good at exams and come out and do an assessment on us at our job site . The qualification process caters to book smart learners not practical experience . Help us advance in power engineering before bringing in foreign workers .

Power Engineer No We already have a system, which is fair for all seeking to become Power Engineers. There are hundreds of Technical Institutes and Universities around the world and I hope you will agree that they have different standard of education. Many of them may not be teaching and conducting exams in English or french. In the present system candidates are evaluated based on their qualification and experience and then advised to appear in the exam. Which is fair to the students studying here and are appearing in the same exam. Current system may be few years old but it does'n mean, it is not effective and fair any more. Concerning shortage of Power Engineers, I don't see any shortage. Just advertise a Power Engineer position and I think you will receive so many applying for the position. You can also ask some one who advertise this position.

Power Engineer Yes As long as There is an over sight to make sure of the fairness when it comes to qualification requirements, and to prevent all employers preferences of foreign power engineer over Canadians.

Power Engineer No Qualifications must be the same for all operators. If you allow foreign qualifications, then you water down the pool of qualified people, and you risk Canadians going overseas to get qualified at a lower standard

Power Engineer No No shortage of 4th class. No demand for the 4th class.

Page 24: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Power Engineer Yes The proposed model is reasonable. At the end of the day I want the best, most qualified, and safety conscientious candidate employed in my facility. If the applicant can be proven to be qualified to similar standards as here in Canada I have no issue with the process. The process of vetting an applicants qualifications must be quantitative in approach as to remove individual assessor bias from the process.

Power Engineer Yes Only if engineers currently working in BC or Canada are allowed the same opportunity for qualification recognition as foreign works. Rule are applied equally to foreign and domestic works.

Power Engineer No There are more than enough power engineers available in Canada. There has been a substantial downturn in Alberta, as well as the eastern provinces, let alone BC providing in-province applicants. Maybe these avenues should be looked at in detail prior to retaining foreign applicants.

I am employed as a Facility Tradesperson

Yes Foreign educational qualification may not be equivalent as in Canada but the work experience and training on this power engineering field must be considered and assess as well passing a certification exam

Power Engineer No I have worked in other countries and observed the competency levels of fellow steamers and can say with confidence that BC's standards are MUCH higher on several levels including Power Engineering experience and WorkSafe BC standards. I have seen many foreign as well as some Canadian Power Engineers that don't have the proper attitude when it comes to Lock-out procedures and Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) policies. I feel there is too much of an opportunity to "fudge" the documentation required. Just give an experienced/proven Canadian Power Engineer an opportunity to spend a couple hours of field time in a typical Power Plant with a foreign applicant and you will quite easily be able to separate the "wheat from the chaff".

Power Engineer No I feel that we should use our own trainers to train our current employees before bringing in outside certified persons.

I am an instructor who teaches power engineering courses

Yes With the provision that we MUST maintain the high standard of safety awareness as well as technical knowledge.

Page 25: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

I am the owner/operator of a plant that employs power engineers

No We should be considering interprovincial transfers rather than international at this point. When I post a position there is no shortage of applicants. Ramp up the education now to try and get ahead of the curve. Creating a system that has us dependant on foreign resource is irresponsible.

Power Engineer No As a whole, the model is could be satisfactory. The point at issue would be the fact that foreign qualifications aside, applicants would not be required to write Power Engineering examinations unless specifically mandated by the BCSA. In my view, this results in a tiered system, eroding the standardization gains in recent years of the jurisdictions across Canada. The Canadian certification system is currently internationally renowned, due to many of the things currently proposed to change. Chief Engineers and subsequent sign-off or approval of individuals not under a prescribed system as currently exists, may lead to confirmation bias, or pressure on Chiefs from plant management to move individuals along. Having been Chief in a First Class plant, the pressures from management are immense with regard not adhering to prescribed legislation - I view this as no different. To aid the proposed process, and as a means of equalization, candidates should be required to write PE exams pertaining to their proposed function.

Power Engineer No Priority 1- Fully fluent in English Priority 2- Power Engineering background and training up to the standards of Canadian training. (No other country exists with this type of training) Priority 3- They be put through the whole power engineering program. Priority 4- The BCSA gets their [act] together and realizes they stand for SAFETY!!!!

Power Engineer No There should be stronger emphasis on use and knowledge to work in either official language, depending on province to be employed in. During my time as a 5th class power engineer with Calgary Board of Education (CBE) we had a number of foreign individuals obtain training online but during provincial testing needed or wanting language translation program devices to get through the official test. For those who did master getting through the test, many had difficulty with the practical application in the field.

Power Engineer Yes The proposal sounds reasonable

Page 26: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Power Engineer No There is no shortage of Power Engineers in BC. Perceived shortages of PE at 1st & 2nd class levels is due to insufficient compensation levels in facilities in BC, more so than actual shortages. There is NO need to import foreign workers.

Other Yes It helps with the labour shortage

Power Engineer No We have hundreds of power engineers in Canada who are educated here and have work experience here who are currently unemployed. The big schools out west (BCIT, SAIT, NAIT) are pumping out hundreds of new power engineers per year who all are willing and able to work. We need to get all of our experienced and new power engineers jobs first before we should be looking at bringing in foreign workers. Also, our power engineering tickets are not recognized in most other countries. Right now we have an overload or qualified people and not enough jobs, even thinking about this right now is almost ridiculous. Maybe one day in the future when we are short on power engineers we can come back to this topic.

Power Engineer No Foreign workers should not be allowed to get Canadian qualifications without Canadian firing time.

Power Engineer No They need to have the exact same qualifications as local workers. Same schooling, same exams, same firing time. Otherwise you will compromise safety in operating plants

I am the maintenance manager in a Dairy that employees power engineers

Yes I know APEGBC do this (as I am one of the Engineers that got approved in this way). What helped me was that APEGBC have agreements with other organizations throughout the world to ensure their qualifications are in line with Canada’s so that may be one approach. In general I am certainly in favor of developing a system to evaluate potential applicants to ensure the standards are maintained. Any system must be fair but also easy to go through.

Power Engineer No There are a large amount of Canadian Power Engineers that are currently out of work. I would prefer to see Canadian people provided with training and job opportunities prior to promoting non-Canadian peoples being fast tracked into the industry.

Power Engineer No The model should be the same as in Alberta: http://www.absa.ca/certifications/power-engineers/work-experience-from-outside-canada/

Page 27: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Power Engineer No While foreigners may have experience in their minds, they don't have Canadian experience. I've had the non-pleasure of working with one of these so called 2nd class guys. I had to teach him the basics of gauge glasses, steam traps, and differences between globe/gate/ball valves. This person was deemed too dangerous to work here and was let go. My company will never hire another foreign worker. So what does that say about recognizing their tickets? They need to start at the 4th and WORK their way up like I did.

Power Engineer No The safety culture of other countries do not share the same values as Canada. The fact that they do not have to speak English shows that Canadian workers will be excluded. Non English speaking employers will exclude English speaking workers. Certain cultures have been known to treat foreign workers poorly like they own them. There is no glut in the Power Engineering market. The LNG boom is a bust and people are looking for work. There has been a very poor showing in high schools of our profession and the main place to get certification is Vancouver which is the highest cost in Canada.

Power Engineer No By hiring foreign workers instead of training Canadian workers, the available jobs for Canadian-born workers is diminished.

Power Engineer No Accepting foreign credentials and more specifically steam time from other countries undermines the status we have built with the inter-provincial ticket. By allowing lesser requirements we will be devaluing the qualification that so many of us have worked so hard for.

Power Engineer (Group submission)

Not completed To clarify, all our maintenance staff are required to obtain their 4th Class Power Engineer certification. We also have at least 1 of the maintenance staff with a 3rd class and they act as out chief Engineer for the boiler sand refrigeration system. The feedback from the maintenance staff is:

1) To complete 4th Class PE certificate while working is very time demanding and needs total time commitment. All existing PE went through BCIT course. New maintenance personnel are trying the block release course in Nanaimo University as they feel the face to face approach is better. This only

Page 28: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

works if the employer can give the time off so maybe a weekend based course could be developed??

2) Currently no requirement for a 1st of 2nd Class PE and no one is interested in doing that.

As for evaluating potential candidates with education / experience from outside of Canada. I know APEGBC do this (as I am one of the Engineers that got approved in this way). What helped me was that APEGBC have agreements with other organizations throughout the world to ensure their qualifications are in line with Canada’s so that may be one approach. In general I am certainly in favor of developing a system to evaluate potential applicants to ensure the standards are maintained. Any system must be fair but also easy to go through.

Received by email Related to foreign qualifications

For consideration, there is a category of qualification that is not on the table for possible challenge as a Power Engineer and that is the commercial and industrial Class-A Gas Fitters. Especially those in the employ of a Class-A Boiler License. In my own case I have held a Class-A Gas qualification since 1992 and have over 35 years experience with boilers of all categories and sizes. Our technicians are regularely hired to install, repair, commission and maintain all manner of boilers including Hydronic, Steam and Thermal Hot-Oil. We work regularly in Hospitals, Mills, Hotels, Breweries and Distilleries, Schools and Institutions. In our field we are fully trained and knowledgable on all CSD-1, ASME, OSHA, etc requirements and we install, test and monitor all safety systems and devices related to Boiler and Combustion operations. In many cases our qualifications and equipment knowledge far exceed those of the typical Plant crews and are frequently consulted to deal with issues that cannot be dealt with in-house. I feel that similar to the Foreign qualifications assessment by the BCSA the category sould be expanded to those of us that cleary work in a parellel industry and

Page 29: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

have extensive industry knowledge. Those within the BCSA know our skill sets and can determine with certainty if we have earned the opportunity to challenge certification as Power Engineers. This is not an open-door to quick certification, it is a vehicle to upgrade persons within the industry that posess the skills and knowledge to merit the recognition for their abilities.

Received via email No If we are held to the highest industry standards around, why bow down to allow a flood of dangerous, untrained individuals when you have newly certified engineers struggling to find local employment everywhere in the country.

First Class Motor Marine Engineer

No By hiring foreign workers instead of training Canadian workers, the available jobs for Canadian-born workers is diminished.

Power Engineer No Accepting foreign credentials and more specifically steam time from other countries undermines the status we have built with the inter-provincial ticket. By allowing lesser requirements we will be devaluing the qualification that so many of us have worked so hard for.

Power Engineer No I am very seriously worried about fraud and exaggerations of previous experience and training

Power Engineer No Employed engineers in BC deserve more support from their companies to progress, I have witnessed this personally over the years. Primarily it's time, they're not provided the time to complete, and they're not provided financial support. And a lot of my colleagues, especially at the 4th class level (primarily pulp and paper) are unemployed or struggling to find jobs

Industrial Electrician and Power Engineer

Yes I think the proposed model is one that looks like it might work.

Power Engineer No All because I took my schooling in Alberta (our own country) and am gaining my firing hours back home in BC, I have to pay $200+ just to transfer my hours and qualification over to a BC qualification. The requirements to become a power engineer in Canada should be the exact same country wide, so one does not have to transfer his ticket over every time s/he goes to work in a different province.

Power Engineer Yes I know a few foreign candidates that have the skills and education to perform advanced Power Engineering work of the 3rd, and 2nd class level but cannot get their credentials recognized. However, Alberta has a program that DOES recognize them and fits them into ticket

Page 30: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

certifications that recognize their qualifications. I would caution however that trying to measure one's practical skills would be an impossible task and would consume hours and hours of BCSA time. And it may not even be practical.

Power Engineer Not completed The proposed model is not acceptable for a couple of reason. My first issue is that it is very hard to verify "formal qualifications" overseas. After talking with my Chief engineer who does the hiring of power engineers for my company, he indicated that when he calls a University, College or company overseas it's impossible to know who you are talking with or what level of education the potential employee may have because you don't know if it's a online college/university or a "real college" or someone is faking their qualifications. My second issue is that Power Engineers go to college so that they can learn the terminology of the equipment they operate and can communicate that terminology effectively with each other in English. I've worked with many power engineers from overseas and it is very hard to understand them over the radios because of their accent, this is then compounded by background noise e.g. boilers pumps compressors. There have been times when I received the wrong information because of this. Also, English may not be their first language and they have trouble communicating the complex situation with me quickly and effectively. In conclusion, I think that it is very important that people pass the standardized exams at the 4th class levels before progressing and they must work their way up through the power engineering system so it's verified that they know at least the basic terminology in English. In my opinion it's not a good idea and it is actually dangerous to recognize someone who wouldn't have an understanding of the terminology of the equipment in the English language because miscommunication will result in mistakes being made and this will greatly impact plant safety. I'd like to add that I have many friends who would like to work in B.C. and they live in B.C. (Vancouver Island) but they can't find a job right now so they have to travel outside of the province at great cost to themselves. Most of them are 4th and 3rd class and are working other jobs. I believe that the it's the responsibility of the companies doing the hiring to advertise better if

Page 31: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

they want to find power engineers to fill the vacant positions. Thanks for your time,

Maintenance Manager of a hotel with several Boilers/Pressure vessels

Not completed Since much of the equipment used in Canadian Plants comes from off shore it only makes sense that we could employ PE's from off shore as well. if they meet BC or Canadian standards.

Aspiring power engineer with foreign experience

Yes Yes the concept is reasonable as many of the major plants outside of Canada have standardized training and qualification for competency that is at or with worldwide standards. Moreover the design and technology of these plants are more often than not in line with international standards.

I am a power engineer and also an owner of multiple plants that employ over 75 power engineers

No As an owner I wouild like to think there would be a huge benefit to this if it could happen. However lack of standards of foreign trained workers is a huge concern and a reality. In highly unionized environments it is very difficult to deal with incompetence once workers are hired. Vetting and ensuring good qualified applicants from outside of Canada is a massive challenge and one which has proven over many hires to be problematic.

Power Engineer No Not enough information provided from the consultation paper at this time. Based on the changes I have observed over the last 5 years with Power Engineering examination criteria the apparent solution to any "proposed" labour shortage within the trade has been to lessen the standard ie. reduced firing time, simplified examinations. Based on this trend and the recent product of engineers I have observed entering the trade I am very skeptical of this proposal.

Part of the Engineering team with the provincial oil and gas regulator

Yes The process defines screening criteria and yet allows entry into higher positions for truly qualified people.

Power Engineer No Safety standards abroad are different and firing time not verifiable. Foreign ticket holders must be subjected to ALL of the same qualifying tasks as a British Columbian (tests and firing time) before certification to ensure a level playing field. Stream lining the process is not necessary as there is currently a HUGE glut of PE in BC that cannot find work.

Power Engineer No I don't believe in the standards of education from other countries;hiwever it should be evaluated on individual base.

Page 32: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Power Engineer No Foreign qualifications should NOT be recognized. Everyone should have to go through the same process in Canada to get their power engineering certification. Evaluations would open the industry up to subjective evaluations and would cheapen the certifications for people who went through the proper process in Canada. I know plenty of power engineers who cannot find work and I do not believe a workforce shortage exists.

Power engineer No I am not apposed to allowing some foreign qualifications being allowed to make it easier to get a fourth or even third but it always hard to allow for language and cultural differences. These people are not always a good fit. We have to be very careful to make sure that we are not doing something different here in B.C. so that we water down our certificates so they are not recognized in the rest of Canada. I am a first and I am not sure that there is so much of a shortage as we are led to believe. If we make it easer then will the wages be forced down and when I look at the work it took to get my first I wonder if it is really worth the extra effort for the little extra money that I am getting.

Power engineer No Significant rigour would be required to evaluate both technical and practicle knowledge at 1st and 2nd class levels.

Power Engineer [no response given] The proposed model is not acceptable for a couple of reason. My first issue is that it is very hard to verify "formal qualifications" overseas. After talking with my Chief engineer who does the hiring of power engineers for my company, he indicated that when he calls a University, College or company overseas it's impossible to know who you are talking with or what level of education the potential employee may have because you don't know if it's a online college/university or a "real college" or someone is faking their qualifications. My second issue is that Power Engineers go to college so that they can learn the terminology of the equipment they operate and can communicate that terminology effectively with each other in English. I've worked with many power engineers from overseas and it is very hard to understand them over the radios because of their accent, this is then compounded by background noise e.g. boilers pumps compressors. There have been times when I received the wrong information because of this. Also, English may not be their first language and they have trouble communicating the complex situation with me quickly and effectively.

Page 33: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

In conclusion, I think that it is very important that people pass the standardized exams at the 4th class levels before progressing and they must work their way up through the power engineering system so it's verified that they know at least the basic terminology in English. In my opinion it's not a good idea and it is actually dangerous to recognize someone who wouldn't have an understanding of the terminology of the equipment in the English language because miscommunication will result in mistakes being made and this will greatly impact plant safety. I'd like to add that I have many friends who would like to work in B.C. and they live in B.C. (Vancouver Island) but they can't find a job right now so they have to travel outside of the province at great cost to themselves. Most of them are 4th and 3rd class and are working other jobs. I believe that the it's the responsibility of the companies doing the hiring to advertise better if they want to find power engineers to fill the vacant positions. Thanks for your time,

Power Engineer No I believe we have to start within the boundaries of our own country, lets develop a Canada wide consistent requirement for Power Engineers and Refrigeration Operators. I hold Steam and Refrigeration certification in every Province across the country (present job requirement) The amount of pocket cards and certificates is outrageous. There should be consistent requirements and a Red Seal Canadian Power Engineer and Refrigeration Certificate that would allow you to operate in every province. I believe people would be more willing to re-locate and spread out across the country for work and this would show all jurisdiction's that there probably isn't a shortage of operators. To become certified in every Province was a long and tedious process and rather eye opening considering some Provinces have only Power Engineers and others have both Power and Refrigeration operators.

Power Engineer No I believe we're moving towards the process of recognizing foreign qualification before fully researching how we can promote the development and progress of our existing Power Engineers already in the system in Canada. I have heard and have participated in a number of conversations where ideas for internal development have been presented, however, don't appear to be getting traction. I believe there

Page 34: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

may be a place for foreign qualification recognition in the future but I would like to see more effort developing locally as the priority before going there.

Power Engineer No Absolutely NOT! I am required to have a signed document which states I have completed the required firing time in BC, otherwise I cannot progress to further certification. Who (and how) will verify that their firing time and education was ACTUALLY completed? Also, incentives should be given to Canadian Power Engineers already in the systems througout Canada to progress through higher certification, instead of the proposed plan to attract cheap (accepting lower wages) 2nd & 1st Class labour.

Immigrant Engineer holding foreign (UK) credentials

Yes There are many highly qualified and experienced immigrants with foreign credentials who would love to contribute to the industry but are held back by the current process. Most are also put off by the fact that they are more often than not required to re-sit deep technical exams that in reality, do not demonstrate the ability to do the job on a practical day to day level. There are also other foreign industry tickets (such as Marine Engineer) that are more than equal to Power Engineering but still require the same onerous process of exams even thoug they are qualifications for the same plant. If equivalent training and experience can be proven then the technical exam process should not apply; demonstrating a person can calculate enthalpy and entropy, and so mass flow calculations is not representative of the day to day practicality of supervising and operating a plant.

I am an instructor who teaches power engineering courses

Yes The process is clear and straight forward. Only one thing is unclear how this will go together with FAST - Facilitating Access to Skilled Trades in BC project?

Power Engineer No I believe that Canadian citizens that have completed the provincial SOPEEC requirements for a Power Engineer Certificate of Qualification by writing standardized examinations and/or completing the required amount of experience in a Canadian industry should only be recognized. This is the only way to ensure that everyone is on the same page with regard to safety and experience. Allowing foreign equivalencies will also increase the competition for employment with the potential for reducing salaries for Canadians.

Page 35: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Power Engineer No The work that a Power Engineer puts into exam preparation, on the job training and acquiring firing time should not be taken for granted. This process is extremely difficult and time consuming. I belief that we have already watered down the qualifications for higher level tickets, as I have witnessed several occasions where individuals that have zero firing time (time actually firing a boiler!) get 'pencil-whipped' through by Chief Engineers. I think the BCSA should be scrutinizing qualifications more and not less. Also - several years ago SOPEEC was formed to standardized Power Engineering certification across Canada. How will this foreign work qualifications play into that standardization? Is SOPEEC on board with this or will this threaten BC's standing and prevent future interprovincial movement?

I am the owner/operator of a plant that employs power engineers

Yes The demographics of current power engineers in BC indicates that some action is required to satisfy the needs of industry. It is therefore reasonable that BC would consider foreign qualifications. This would also add depth and competitiveness to the pool of qualified power engineers. BC is already taking this approach with physicians, professional engineers, etc

Power Engineer No Have them write an exam, we dont know how good their certification process is where they come from.

Power Engineer Yes I have worked inside and outside Canada. If the person applying for certification can prove and show competent understanding and pass the exam then let them. If they cannot pass the exam, then a refresher course could be offered based on how many years they have in the industry.

Power Engineer No I think we have a system in place for people who have been working in the profession. An example would be marine engineers and how they are handled in the past. The policy was fair and from my experience very sucessful to the plant and the employee. Why re-create the wheel, ABSA has a policy which seems to work but BCSA wants to be different, not better.

Power Engineer Yes I think it is reasonable but I had experienced where a person got papers for 3rd class power engineer but he could not even identify natural gas lines forget about the power plant and its equipments he did not know anything. so that is a big problem , people not being honest to get the papers..

Page 36: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Power Engineer No Absolutely not. Foreign qualifications for power engineering are just a smokescreen to hire cheap labour from overseas and to hire third world Immigrants who do not understand the linguistics or language terminology involved in the process of power engineering. This is nothing more than an attempt to water down the Industry and give the various Industry sectors ie oil and gas, LNG operators, etc, plus the various stakeholder groups an excuse to hire Foreign workers for the bottom line and their investors as opposed to hiring Canadians who understand what overtime means, what time and a half means, what it means to work on Holidays, yes I think most of us know what this so- called "proposed model" is attempting to do here. thank you for allowing my opinion on this important safety issue re my Industry.

Power Engineer Yes Although I am not certain what the model for recognizing foreign qualifications is, I can say that they should be held under an even higher requirement because firstly, their sub standard English comprehension is an impediment. Secondly, most come from 3rd world countries where safety is not regulated and they are accustomed to follow what they are told by employers.

Owner of boilers that do not have a power engineer to operate

Yes We are to protective of Canadian jobs and have the attitude that no one else knows any better. Foreign trained power boiler operators would need to challenge an exam once in Canada but should be given the opportunity to shadow a tradesperson without going to the bottom of the barrel so to speak and serve another training apprenticeship.

Power Engineer No Currently there's no shortage of power engineers however is predicted that a shortage may occur in the next decade and beyond (heard the same argument from industry in the 90's). This speculation hinges on industrial expansion particularly in the oil and gas sectors and is currently speculative and reliant on "floating" factors such as economics, market conditions, supply and demand, social license... Due to the time frame projected I'm absolutely not in support of recognizing foreign qualification for power engineers. A move to recognize "foreign qualifications" does not serve the best interest of BC and Canadian citizens, their families or the power engineering field in general. It will in my opinion place a road block hindering or circumventing British Columbians opportunity to pursue a career as a power engineer. Given that many industries are foreign owned raises

Page 37: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

concern towards abuse of such a system whereby foreign workers are exploited, or provided opportunity priority given their ethnic or cultural background. We have seen this abuse in other sectors utilizing foreign workers and is know to occur. How would this be effectively monitored, policed, and enforced? The priority of government must not be to prioritize and cater to industries speculative concerns towards future "qualified labor shortages" in the power engineering field and their desire to off set this with "foreign workers". The clear priority and obligation that should lie within government and industry in BC is to work collaboratively TODAY to promote power engineering, training, education, experience, and time within the varying industries requiring power engineering staff so that British Columbians/Canadians can enter and move forward in in the power engineering field. What needs to occur is a defensible projection of required power engineers at the differing levels that will be required in BC over the next decade. Factor in current power engineer trends of those entering the field, and those at a targeted age near retirement leaving. From this target power engineer requirements can be estimated and base numbers required to meet demand calculated. The Province, BCSA, education institution, and industry then need to work to together and develop a plan in a timely fashion to meet those target numbers by creating opportunity for British Columbians to achieve power engineering certification. There are options that can provide opportunities for British Columbians to enter into the power engineering field, and for industry to have access to those certified persons to meet their operational obligations. Recognizing foreign qualification for power engineers is NOT one of those option, and moving in such a direction would be political suicide.

Power Engineer No There was no plainly stated process of evaluation for foreign engineers. There is not a common evaluation for Canada yet ( look at a Quebec engineers certificate).

Power Engineer No Other countries don't necessarily follow the same standards of education as us. There has been too many times in my life where I've seen issues arise from a persons lack of knowledge that a Canadian educated individual would have been well aware of.

Page 38: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Power Engineer No everyone regardless of experience should have to write an exam and pass it.

Power Engineer Yes I like the idea that all applicants must go through peer assessment.

Power Engineer No I don't agree with bringing in any foreign workers unless all trained and qualified Canadians are gainfully employed first. That should be the same for all fields of work. I believe we see too many foreign workers in all jobs. Many students would fill lower positions quite readily and need money to further their educations. Take care of Canadians first. I know of many power engineers looking for work, and, as you are very aware of, power engineers should always be employed because of their ability to troubleshoot, improve production and efficiency as well most have a very thorough knowledge of all safety regulations and how to mitigate risks.

Power Engineer No Although I hold a 3rd class cert. while overseas I was in charge of a 1st class facility for which I received no credit upon my return to Canada.

Foreign trained power engineer related job

Yes The steps for application for recognition is clear. There are immigrants desiring to land a job in this field with extensive experience and safety culture to contribute to this country.

Power Engineer Yes I believe the model is sound at this level as it is fairly non-specific. I would question however the need for recognizing foreign workers as we have ramped up the education system to meet demand in the past few years at least at the lower levels. A critical look at how the power engineers move to the second and first class levels is perhaps required. I would much prefer we figure out a way to support our industry from within, if not BC first then Canada first. As a nation we have been making strides to make our labor more mobile. For instance: "Under TILMA, Alberta and British Columbia agreed to reconcile or mutually recognize occupational standards for those occupations regulated in both provinces where the scope of practice was similar. As of April 1, 2009, more than 100 occupations have full labour mobility between Alberta and BC. Professionals and skilled tradespersons certified in one province will be recognized as qualified in both. The benefit of TILMA is that workers will not need to go through material examinations or training to practice their chosen occupation" Federally we have the AIT "The Agreement on Internal

Page 39: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Trade (AIT) is an intergovernmental agreement signed by Canadian First Ministers that came into force in 1995. Its purpose is to foster improved interprovincial trade by addressing obstacles to the free movement of persons, goods, services and investments within Canada." If we as a country can't meet the demand for labor from within and have to go outside, then we have let our children down. Lets figure out how to provide the employers with what they need and provide our children with employment and a future.

Power Engineer No We should train our own citizens this will lead for us making in the future [foreign] wages

Power Engineer No Other areas may not have the same examination standards that BCSA has. If a person has foreign qualifications they should be able to go through the steps like others have.

Provincial Regulatory Authority

Yes Being an immigrant myself and having worked in the Gulf for almost 20 years, I would like to share following; 1. My education is from Pakistan, similar to India, Bangladesh and neighboring countries. I completed 3 years technical program (diploma of associate engineer in metallurgical technology). I am currently doing 4th class power engineering from BCIT. The 4th class course has some sections which are not covered by my diploma program, for example auxiliary building systems and refrigeration and air-conditioning, controls and instrumentations, heating boilers, steam and water heating systems, high pressure boiler design. 2. Please note that majority of the 4 years Bachelors of Engineering degree holders (and 3 years engineering diploma holders) from subcontinent and those who have worked in Gulf, have no experience of running a boiler or a refrigeration plant. In order to determine the candidates' experience with Boilers/Pressure Vessels and refrigeration systems, a formal and thorough review of credentials/syllabus and work history would be essential. 3. There are two aspects of a engineering managerial job - technical and administrative. Most of engineers out of Canada are god in managerial skills but may be not so good in technical skills required for power engineering field. This gap required to be bridged with specially designed programs. 4. A sub-continent educated mechanical engineer with say 25 years of experience may be inducted at no higher than 3rd class power engineer and then he/she need to

Page 40: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

progress forward with rules and required firing time. 5. If a foreign qualified/educated mechanical engineer goes directly to a 2nd or a 3rd class power engineering designation, he/she is not going to get same respect from colleagues as someone who has been trained and experienced in Canada. 6. The power engineering profession is unique in nature. There should be tailor made programs prepared and delivered by recognized institutions. This should be done after a candidate's credentials have been thoroughly evaluated. Power lab should be must. 7. Lot of foreign workers are not getting induced into 4th class due to firing time requirement. These 4th class employees are the ones which will eventually progress to higher classes. I am aware that currently, there is huge backlog (NAIT, SAIT, New Caledonia and BCIT) in getting enrolled in a power lab. If number of seats increased in power lab and the program runs twice a year (currently power labs are only once a year and in summer), lots of candidates will make it to 4th class power engineering.

Power Engineer No I am presently working on a project that uses foreign engineers that build plants around the world. They are very good engineers but they have never built a plant in Canada or the USA. The result is that there is a lot of code violations that are present, that need to be corrected. They are just not used to all the codes and regulations that we have in North America. This is a big part of being a power engineer.

Power Engineer Yes The five step process for recognizing foreign qualifications for power engineers follows and meets the guiding principles of the evaluation process.

Power Engineer No Having worked overseas for several years many international operators are very well educated, university degrees or technical school diplomas but the education does not align directly with Power Engineering.

Power Engineer Yes I went to school with men more qualified than myself who's biggest stumbling block was language. Competency in English must be mandatory as clear communication is paramount for safe operation.

Page 41: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

PEER REVIEW PANEL TO ASSESS AND MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS REGARDING APPLICANTS WHO HOLD FOREIGN

CREDENTIALS

Question: What is your level of agreement with BC Safety Authority using a peer review panel to assess and make

recommendations regarding individual power engineering applicants that hold foreign credentials? [Strongly Agree/Somewhat

Agree/Neither Agree nor Disagree/Somewhat Disagree/Strongly Disagree]

Group Representation Position Comments

Power Engineer Strongly agree.

Power Engineer Strongly disagree. I think that this is a road of desperation and is wholly ill-advised from a safety prospective as well as from a long term plan to fill the current void with unqualified/uncertified Power Engineers.

Power Engineer Agree •Credential evaluation (by a regulatory agency or third party evaluation service) •Practical skills assessment •Written or oral examinations

Power Engineer Strongly agree A database should be created listing the countries that educate Power Engineers, and that curriculum should be reviewed and assessed on an individual countrys' basis to determine a scale of equivilent cometency and experience.

Power Engineer Somewhat agree They should be thoroughly tested as we all were. I would also like to see a data base of Canadian engineers reviewed before hiring outside workers. Canadians should also have the right to bump foreign workers.

Power Engineer Strongly disagree Foreign Engineers must have a canadian experience 1st in the field before letting him in industry

Power Engineer Strongly disagree If you do this it will destroy this career path as we know it.

Power Engineer Strongly disagree There should not be a review, time on watch and exams.

Power Engineer Strongly disagree Not a good idea.

Safety Officer Strongly agree The process must be considered carefully as BC can become heaven for people seeking foreign credential approval.

Page 42: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Power Engineer Somewhat disagree Most other countries do not have the such a thorough process of experience and educational requirements to become power engineer. The process and requirements to become other trades internationally (such as electrical, millwright, etc) are much closer to Canada's standards than that of the power engineering community. For example, a couple years ago I emailed the boiler inspector of Hawaii and asked what would be required to become an engineer there and was told that I simply needed to fill out a two page form with my work experience and that would be adequate. Where as if there was an electrician going to the same place they would have to provide much more than a document with work experience to practice their trade in that location.

Power Engineer Strongly disagree Only way it will work is if there are a lot of independant people, not the company sponsoring the applicants, are hired to do this. This would require increased fees. Without the large pool of people to draw for the panel it will only creat a huge back log. Also, anyone can memorize questions or be coached how to answer those questions. Refer to firing time requirements in the previous comments.

Power Engineer Somewhat agree If BCSA chooses to go forward with this plan, it should include all of the above mentioned components: peer review, credential evaluation, practical skills assessment, and examination.

Power Engineer Strongly agree Again, until BC workers all have jobs I oppose making it easier for foreign workers to get into the field. Once BC workers are working, then by all means, I agree that there needs to be standards set to allow an inflow for any jobs that can't be filled by BC PE's.

Power Engineer Somewhat agree I believe you need to be very careful while doing this. I am worried Power Engineers from abroad will flood over and work for 10 dollars less an hour and completely destroy a trade many Canadians have devoted their lives to.

Power Engineer Strongly agree I believe there are certain countries such as the UK that have very similar qualifications to Canada for oil and gas operators such as btec national certificates in oil and gas or chemical engineering

Power Engineer Somewhat agree need strong regulations to keep up required qualifications

Power Engineer Strongly agree I think we need to look for another solution first

Power Engineer Somewhat disagree Through schools then safety authorities

Page 43: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Power Engineer Somewhat agree Ensuring that the standards from the other Country are compatible to Canada… Also noting that changing the exam outlines for Canada to “dumb” them down so we have more 2nd / 1st class graduates, or to be on the same level as other Countries is a mistake… Must maintain a high standard and if competency and standards do not “jive” with our standards then there tickets should not be transferrable and should be lowered down a level. Simulation training and competency testing are a must as well as Communication. Communication should be a major focus as this will cause the most turmoil in plants… Safety standards also may not be the same in other Countries, so this Communication thing I keep typing about becomes an even bigger problem as the understanding of policies and procedures may not sink in and there will be unwanted down time caused by Operator Error.

Power Engineer Strongly disagree firing time or experience should be reviewed ex employers contacted. Exams should be written like everybody else.

Power Engineer Strongly disagree We will end up with poorly trained and unqualified personnel operating large and expensive plants.

Power Engineer Somewhat disagree Canada is in a major lul right now in the workforce, except for BC, but the economy is riding on a 33% real estate high which is expected to pop. A lot of the power engineering jobs in BC are in the building operator sector, not many that I see (I frequently watch the employment web site listings) are decent paying jobs in low to moderate cost of living communities. Maybe start looking with-in the rest of Canada, especially targeting the colleges/trade schools that are putting out power engineers with not much hope for employment right out of graduation or expand classrooms to increase the number of students going into the trade. But by no means, should you guys lower or undermine the educational requirements to practice power engineering in this Country.

Student Strongly Disagree More incentives for Canadian Citizens. We have jobs don't fill them with foreign workers. Industries need incentivise to be ingrained with Schools who teach Power Engineering. Outside qualifications should be last resort only!

Power Engineer Somewhat agree Peer assessment is very important as basing experience purely on passing exams is not sufficient given the amount of study materials

Page 44: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

available online that could help an unqualified but well studied candidate slip through.

Power Engineer Strongly disagree More opportunities for Power Engineers who are Canadian Citizens. Foreign qualifications should be considered only when no other options are available.

Power Engineer Strongly disagree If a person comes to Canada with experience, employers will take that into account. It doesn't take that long to progress through the tickets once you are working. If we start accepting foreign qualifications we may wind up with managers who want to skip the working ranks therefore haven't experienced our Canadian Safety Culture. They would be a safety risk as Chief Engineers.

Power Engineer Somewhat disagree Industry should not be allowed to down grade trade requirements to meet there own ends. Safety of people must be the first and highest concern.

Power Engineer Strongly disagree Their is no need for foreign power engineers, there are vast numbers of power engineers in BC that are unable to to progress do to economic and industry limitations, the problem is not a shortage of higher class power engineers, it's the fact of not being able to get the firing time, and that pulp mills can't compete with the oil industry wages. If there was a standardization of wages for each class across Canadian industries, there would not be shortages of power engineers

Power Engineer Somewhat agree As stated above. Are the Canadian Military members going to be fairly assessed in the same manor to be recognized for the qualifications they have attained while serving their country?

Power Engineer Strongly agree As stated about foreign trained applicants should be limited to 3rd class level

Power Engineer Somewhat agree A peer group is great but the Safety Authority doesn't have the manpower to do what is required now. What is the plan to accommodate this? Safety Authority should look at their own process, wages, benefits to retain quality and acceptable number of personnel.

Power Engineer Somewhat disagree I have payed for the 4th class certificate steam time at SAIT lab. I have done 3A with SAIT and ABSA, could do 3B in no time. However there is no point to do that as I would need 6 months steam time toward the 3d class certificate anyway. I feel I could easy move to at

Page 45: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

least 2 class, due to my foreign background and experience BUT... They would hire you only if you already have at least 2 years of the Canadian steam time. Doesn't matter what certificate you have, to get hired you need to have a steam time in Canada.

Power Engineer Strongly disagree Foreign engineers should have to write a test in BC in order to have certification to work under BC guidelines and laws.

Power Engineer Somewhat agree Just apply the methods mentioned above.

Power Engineer Somewhat agree BC Safety is very unorganized and rude. Especially workers from the New Westminster location.

Power Engineer Somewhat agree A database should be created listing the countries that educate Power Engineers, and that curriculum should be reviewed and assessed on an individual country's basis to determine a scale of equivalent competency and experience.

Power Engineer Somewhat agree With the extremely high number of Power Engine beers currently out of work, this is not the time to hand out tickets, I work with a lot of new Canadians both Power and Professional Engineers. The Educational and work experience standards need to be protected preventing Processs Safety incidents in Canada. This should be the top priority of BCSafety Authority, not a streamline approach to foreign labour

Power Engineer Somewhat disagree Many very competent Power Engineers have difficulty with the format of the examination process. I think if we used some or all of the processes described for foreign worker evaluations to evaluate current Power Engineers for higher certification we could eleviate the shortage of 2nd and 1st Class Powr Engineers. The current rigid examination process does not work for many learning styles of very competent and knowledgable Power Engineers

Power Engineer Strongly agree I think the company looking to hire foreign workers needs to be reviewed, as well as the process the company used to advertise for the available position and the number and qualifications of the applicants. The Canadian work force must be exhausted before foreign workers can be brought in.

Power Engineer Strongly disagree This discourages Canadians from gaining certification in the field of power engineering. All workers should be tested to the same standards.

Page 46: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Power Engineer Strongly disagree Review their foreign credentials and make them take a year or 2 years of education, like everyone else, to make sure they're accustomed to the culture of safety in Canada and to refresh their knowledge of operations. They might have related experience but who is gonna take responsibility when things to wrong. The qualifying individuals should be fully responsible when things go wrong if you decide to move forward with this idea. Individuals not the corporation ie. the people who are reviewing the person NOT the agency or organization is responsible for things when it goes wrong. Where do you see a shortage of power engineers? I see a million of them looking for jobs and no one is hiring. No one is going to give the experience to a fresh graduate from school an opportunity so why are you reviewing foreign qualifications for positions that Canadians cannot obtain.

Power Engineer Strongly disagree I believe that there is not a need for this sort of program to be put into place. We don't have a Power Engineer shortage... we aren't going to have one for the next 10-20 years.

Power Engineers Strongly disagree From what I have seen in industry, there is no urgency in the shortage that was described in the documents that were provided. Programs are pumping out more Third Class Power Engineers than there are jobs for already. Allowing foreign qualifications to be held in the same light will very quickly flood the industry with sub par workers and drive Power Engineer wages down. Furthermore, the shortages described were in the most crucial classes. First and Second Class Power Engineers are at a level where requirements should be more stringent than ever. The possible implications that could arise from boiler failure under questionable leadership from a worker that was granted qualification through foreign work experience are a crucial thought for consideration. I personally will never work in a plant run in this way.

Power Engineer Strongly disagree Evaluation should be done by outside agency . Based on the qualification candidate should be given opportunity to challenge exam for various classes. Reduce the firing time or provide a source to currently employed power engineer to get firing time by posting jobs or volunteer work at certain power plants to get firing hours on your website . This will help to connect with the emloyer.

Page 47: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Power Engineer No response There must be at some point an actual meeting with the candidate even if its by satellite conferencing.You need to see and hear what you're essentially buying.To many people know how to work the system and then once in the Country were stuck with another cull.

Power Engineer Strongly disagree Peer review is not objective, and can be easily used for discrimination. Exams are the objective means of evaluation, and the right way to go.

Power Engineer Strongly agree Again you have indicated that there is only a shortage of 1st and 2nd Class, create a panel of Canadian Power Engineers chosen by peers, to do the review.

Power Engineer Strongly disagree We have large recourses of people already here that may need a little assistance to move up and at the end of the day, would probably be more cost effective, efficient and would build a stronger Canada. Lets go in that direction before opening the doors and give our Sons and Daughters first crack at these opportunities. Also, the professional standards that are entrenched in both our culture and laws must be up-held. Foreign influences put pressures to lower our standards and this must be resisted. As mentioned in the International Labour Mobility Project, the U.S.A. is looking to us as a leader in the standards in our profession. We are leaders and let's keep it that way.

Power Engineer Strongly disagree This seems like a waste of resources. The existing qualification system already performs this function. An international worker should be able to submit the specifications on their plant and length of time worked there using forms 1026 & 1206, be reviewed and write the exams per the existing process. A subjective "peer review" is no substitution for tested understanding of the exams. This proposal risks introducing unqualified individuals into the workforce by removing the unbiased testing & skills assessment component - the most important part of any trade qualification process. The current proposal is also discriminatory to Canadians who will be denied the peer review avenue to qualification.

Power Engineer Neither agree nor disagree Should offer apprenticeships/bursaries for workers already living in CANADA.

Power Engineer Strongly disagree if allowed must need to do exact same process as people born in canada

Page 48: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Power Engineer Somewhat agree It seems to me that there are more people with tickets and no jobs that are Canadian, so I find it hard to agree to have people with foreign tickets moving in to BC jobs. They should go through one of our fine schools just like everybody else. Industry lobbyists want the market awash with tickets to bring wages down and to slow job migration and I get that. But, in my experience our domestic requirements are already getting watered down with reduced firing time, marine ticket cross overs, removal of 3B-1 written and recognizing other provinces old multiple choice seconds at par with us. So having a work force with weaker tickets and foreign nationals in the mix is a accident waiting to happen

Power Engineer Strongly agree Follow the standards layed out in the safety codes act and implement a system that strengthens the certification process. Don't want industry water downed

Power Engineer Neither agree nor disagree My only concern with the peer review panel method of assessing applicants is a lack of standardization.

Power Engineer Somewhat agree It is my current experience with power engineers, that the "well rounded power engineer" is becoming a thing of the past. Many engineers are lacking the diversity of experience, both foreign and domestic. Perhaps an assessment or qualification of those power engineers who are in direct leadership rolls that over see operation and maintenance of plants might help?

Power Engineer Somewhat agree IF and only if they have safely operated a plant for a minimum of five years. as the lead power engineer should their application be even considered. Then be able to prove the interpersonal skills necessary to lead a team in a plant. But under no circumstances just to save money on wages. If that is all the owners want to do then shut the fucking plant down.

Power Engineer Strongly agree Strict. I have worked with ticketed foreigners. 60%were a joke.

Power Engineer Strongly disagree How about you put the effort that you are currently with foreign workers in to Canadian workers, their employment, and a better, more reasonable program for qualifying local Canadian Power Engineers.

Power Engineer Strongly agree Temporary periods of labour shortage sort themselves out soon enough. Please don't sacrifice safety and incumbent employees for the sake of corporate pressure.

Page 49: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Power Engineer Somewhat agree you need to be careful that the peer group does not have a vested interest in the people being approved.

Power Engineer Somewhat disagree The person who does the evaluation should some what have foreign experience, so not be biased when evaluating. In the panel their should be a person with foreign qualifications and experience in home and outside home.

Power Engineer Strongly agree A written test is useless in evaluating as I said in previous comment. Anyone can read a book and pass a test. Me personally I would assemble a group of experienced operators from gas to pulp plants to take the person in the field and evaluate their knowledge. I'll work with a fourth class guy who has experience in the field any day over a first or second class guy who read a book and passed a few tests.

Power Engineer Somewhat disagree As industry shortages increase added pressure to fill these vacancies will develop leading to a possible breakdown of standards set out.

Power Engineer Strongly agree Ability to communicate (to give and receive direction) clearly (both spoken and written) in English is essential

Power Engineer Somewhat agree How can we be assured that these workers are in fact competent and trained to work with equipment found in Canada?

Power Engineer Strongly disagree It has been my experience that industry will do anything that they can to reduce costs and increase profit margins. It is up to regulators to ensure that shortcuts are not taken that could lead to an unsafe conditions.

Power Engineer Strongly disagree As I said earlier on, I believe someone that wants to be a power engineer in Canada, should have to write the same exams and acquire the same amount of experience at each level. Therefor, start from the beginning, just like the rest of us. We can't prevent people in our own country from forging their work experience, never mind workers from another country.

Power Engineer Somewhat agree Agree providing there is balance on the review board to ensure equivalent competency is at the forefront of the process. Do not want to see industry use the process to staff with foreign workers with the expectation of lower wages. There could be an option to re evaluate after one year in the position to ensure the first evaluation was correct (probation).

Power Engineer Somewhat agree Foreign credentials should be checked rigidly to maintain a high standard. Canadian safety procedures and culture should be priority.

Page 50: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Power Engineer Strongly agree Ensure certification is valid and not fraudulently aquired

Power Engineer Strongly disagree Ones of the greatest dangers in the next few years will be lack of communication. Radio miscommunication is already an issue in places that have been traditionally hard to find workers for, ie; northern Alberta. Language skills must be evaluated.

Power Engineer Strongly disagree We needed to train our existing unemployed and youth and industry needs to step up to the plate ....now they have an issue they are looking for an easy solution by bringing in foreign workers. Why is there such a long waiting list for power engineers to enter BCIT ? If there is an issue it would appear the industry, the province and the authority have been asleep at the wheel and now it's panic time. Rather than take the easy route why not do the right thing and train Canadians to do Canadian jobs?!!!

Power Engineer Somewhat disagree A fair solution is to subject the applicants to exactly the same testing as Canadian power engineers. That includes writing all of necessary exams and not bypassing them via some form of challenge exam. I have worked at over 50 plants in western Canada and I have seen first hand that the qualification levels of foreign trained workers are substantially lower than Canadian standards. Do not make the same mistake that the Red Seal trades did when they allowed foreign trained individuals to challenge the IP exam and get qualified. The trades boards fully admit this was a mistake - I urge you not to go down the same path.

Power Engineer Strongly disagree Talking about foreign qualifications is barking up the wrong tree. Our qualifications are based on examinations + experience aka firing time. Anyone good enough to pass our exams has proved their subject matter ability. This is completely non-discriminatory. You pass; your good. The time, trouble and expense of evaluating foreign credentials is bypassed. As are the inevitable appeals. Prep time for each exam is typically one to two months. Foreigners with strong backgrounds, for example grads of Russian power engineering universities (Ivanovo State Power Engineering University for one) could probably pass up to first blindfolded. Skip the evaluation nonsense, just give everyone the same exams.

Power Engineer Somewhat agree While I am not opposed to the recognition of foreign credentials altogether I believe it must be done carefully, rigorously, and rarely.

Page 51: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

To do anything else is to put workers and the general public in harms way.

Power Engineer Strongly disagree Like every other Red seal trade, to become a Power Engineer you need to follow the same process we all do. There should be no exceptions, the decrease in Power Engineering qualifications and firing time over the last 20 years has de-valued the 4th and 3rd class tickets and is a Safety concern.

Power Engineer Strongly disagree It has never been easier to gain power engineering certification. The resources open to anyone who wants to pursue a career in power engineering are endless(internet) and the changes to exam format (3B1 for example) have opened the door to more cheating (question sharing for example). Experience has shown since the firing time reductions brought about by TILMA, recent exam format changes, and the newer low quality training programs that we are not producing engineers with competencies befitting 4ths and 3rds. If we were they would be prepared with the skills they need to take on the 1st and 2nd class exams. The solution to possible future shortages is getting better more passionate and dedicated people into the lower ranks, not just more. Until we can produce quality engineers with the programs in place we should not be looking at another stream of people to manage.

Power Engineer Strongly agree Ensure applicant's examination regimen agrees with the SOPEEC standards and firing time is adequate. If not, re-examination may be in order or additional firing time may be required.

Power Engineer Strongly disagree Make them write the exams if the want the tickets. No shortcuts

Power Engineer Strongly disagree BCSA cannot evaluate anyone, they cannot seem to get a Power Engineer of greater level than a Third class to evaluate Second class exams, then what are the chances they can effectively evaluate a foreign worker with "perceived" Power Engineering experience.

Power Engineer Strongly agree Focus on improving local power engineering talent first. Foreign nationals should always be taken second over Canadian power engineers. An engineering degree does not equal anything in the power engineering world its apples vs oranges. Practical experience and the ability to communicate is as important to power engineering as technical knowledge. Contrary to what some educational instructors at BCIT may think.

Page 52: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Power Engineer Strongly agree When I came from another country (UK) I had a first class certificate which upon validation I was issued a second class BC certificate

Power Engineer Strongly disagree As I stated, being a Journeyman and training others, we need to follow the past best practices of training foreign workers locally. Based on their past training and experience, they could be given some credits but would need to take training and pass tests to receive certification here in Canada.

Power Engineer Strongly agree look at the countries that have the same or higher educational system than Canada

Power Engineer Strongly disagree Lots of 4th and 3rd class Canadian graduates cannot find jobs. Maybe the government can look at providing incentives for employers to hire Canadians graduates. This would would help give recent graduates a reasonable chance at finding a job when they finish school and provide experienced power engineers for the future. It also lowers the risk an employer is expected to take when hiring a fresh grad.

Power Engineer Strongly disagree Again, I do not see a need for such measures except to accommodate "Stake Holder" industry that can use the created surplus of Engineers as a means of keeping pay down (single most expressed reason for Nationals not advancing) at the highest and lowest levels.

Power Engineer Strongly agree All of their foreign credentials should be checked over with a fine tooth comb. I've heard stories about workers coming in with fake credentials, and that is unacceptable to the trade and everyone's safety including their own.

Power Engineer Strongly disagree Bcsa needs to review us current power engineers that can't proceed to the next class because we can't put the time in to study for the exams and just aren't and never good at exams . And forget about foreign workers.

Power Engineer Strongly disagree I think the present system is good enough. In my opinion it hold a balance between foreign qualified and local qualified, because both are tested on the same examination. In new proposed system local candidates may have some disadvantage.

Power Engineer Somewhat agree maintain standards by having equivalency.

Power Engineer Strongly disagree It will be a bias panel. There is a strong potential that the peer reviewers will be the one's looking to hire said foreign workers.

Page 53: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Power Engineer Strongly agree Review the work experience and actually verifying this with the former employer.

Power Engineer Somewhat agree The peer review panel must be made up of a panel of proven & trusted individuals so there is no chance of any kind of favoritism. It is widely known that there are "Good Ol Boys Clubs" alive and thriving still to this day.

Power Engineer Strongly agree As many of the current power engineers are out of work it seems to add to the problem by accepting from outside Canada.

Power Engineer Neither agree nor disagree Given the questions that have been asked. It seems that allowing foreign training is a foregone conclusion. Is Christy Clark behind this?

Power Engineer Somewhat agree The process should only occur in exceptional cases, and not become the rule. As was addressed in the report, the number of PEs willing to obtain higher qualifications is more than ample to fill the coming needs (real or perceived). Focus needs to be placed on employers in the industries struggling to attract/retain Power Engineers to do more, because there are reasons they cannot get employees, and money isn't the issue in many cases. The facility I'm employed in requires one 1st Class Power Engineer as Chief - we have 13 1st Class PEs, and aren't the highest paying in our industry.

Power Engineer Strongly disagree There is no foreign credentials. Don't turn power engineering in to a joke.

Power Engineer Somewhat agree I don't believe I have sufficient knowledge to make this determination.

Power Engineer Neither agree nor disagree I have read all of the comments from Phase 1 of the consultation process. I have to say that I agree with the majority of the respondents; we should NOT be considering foreign worker qualifications. We have a qualification process in BC that can & should be followed. No changes are necessary.

Power Engineer Strongly disagree Most other countries don't recognize our qualifications, so we shouldn't be recognizing theirs. Especially right now when there are so many of us who are qualified, willing, and able to work but can't find a job in this field. If there is a shortage of power engineers in this country then I am all for it, but right this is the last thing we need and it doesn't look like we will need this anytime in the near future.

Page 54: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Power Engineer Strongly agree Foreign workers should be fully fluent in english, or french if that is the working language. Inability to understand underlying mean in direction is an operational imparative.

Power Engineer Strongly disagree A peer review panel is not an effective way of certifying someone to maintain dangerous equipment. They need to be trained the exact same way power engineers in bc are. They can come and go through the college program for their fourth class ticket just like everyone else

Power Engineer Neither agree nor disagree As for evaluating potential candidates with education / experience from outside of Canada. I know APEGBC do this (as I am one of the Engineers that got approved in this way). What helped me was that APEGBC have agreements with other organizations throughout the world to ensure their qualifications are in line with Canada’s so that may be one approach. In general I am certainly in favor of developing a system to evaluate potential applicants to ensure the standards are maintained. Any system must be fair but also easy to go through.

Power Engineer Strongly agree Alberta has a good system and should be adopted in BC. However, Alberta also has a robust Examination Program, unlike BC. For example; Alberta ABSA has a whole department dedicated to examinations and only Power Engineers working as Boiler Safety Officers can invigilate exams.

Power Engineer Strongly agree A peer review panel needs to be made up of experts with years of hands on experience, not a few old people who are there just because they have a 1st. aNo disrespect, but a lot of 1st class guys are too far removed from hands on operations. New hires at my place of employment are given the thumbs up or down from the crew they will be working with.

Power Engineer Strongly disagree We have a system in place. You write the exams, no different than doctors. Do not water down our profession. As stated on your web site. Current Power Engineers are not getting their Second Class Certification due to the lack of increase in pay. This is clearly showing that Industry wants to bring in foreign workers so they don't have to pay the going rate for skilled, qualified and competent workers.

Power Engineer Strongly agree Since the peers are the people that may have to work with/alongside the foreign workers, the peers should have the right to be heard and to provide feedback.

Page 55: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Power Engineer Somewhat disagree There is no shortage of power engineers in Canada. There is actually a large surplus of power engineers, and with the current economic decline this surplus will continue to grow. There is no need to consider foreign credentials for equivalency with the inter-provincial ticket. There have been changes over the past few years that have degraded the worth of the ticket. These changes include make it easier to obtain this certification; by the means of lesser educational programs, steam time at school facilities that are less than adequate, and changing to multiple choice exams from written. All people must be treated equal, if you were born here or otherwise, everyone must complete the schooling, exams and steam time before any certificate is issued. If we degrade the requirements to operator pressure equipment, the rate of safety incidents will increase and with that increase the rate of lost time accidents and fatalities will increase.

Power Engineer Strongly disagree Do not open the door to be susceptible to fraud. THEY WILL TRY. SOME WILL SUCCEED.

Power Engineer Somewhat disagree Peer Review and Practical Skills qualification aren't time efficient, nor are they targeted to properly assess individuals working in the many industries Power Engineers can be found in. BCSA has little practical experience in large industrial plants unless the people performing the evaluations were to come in from outside the GVRD, from places like Prince George, Fort St John, Quesnel, and other places that have large High Pressure and complex equipment.

Power Engineer Strongly disagree It is necessary to have all Power Engineers pass the Standardized Power engineering exams. This will prove they have the level of competency and understanding necessary to preform the jobs required of them. In my opinion this is the best way to assess the skills of an individual.

Power Engineer Strongly agree Cultural difference and language barriers are a real issue in hiring foreign workers. Being able to communicate is key, and most people that use English as a second language struggle in this area. The process of approving these workers should include communication assessments in addition to the assessment on power engineering skills. The applicant could be highly intelligent and experienced, but if they can't competently communicate with their team, they're useless.

Page 56: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Aspiring power engineer with foreign experience

Strongly agree Based on the flow diagram for review of qualifications, a path for experienced professionals should also be considered with the addition of considering foreign education that is assessed by an educational international assessment body

I am a power engineer and also an owner of multiple plants that employ over 75 power engineers

Strongly agree Safety, workmanship, education and many other intangibles vary greatly from country to country. Experience has shown that it is very difficult to ensure that new applicants understand and can work to the expected standards and levels in BC.

Power Engineer Somewhat agree A peer review panel would be an excellent resource in ensuring the highest standard is maintained for this profession. However the panel selection would need to be highly scrutinized. An online voting process involving the power engineering community as a whole would be one sure way to prevent large oil and gas from stacking any such review panel with members with only their interests in mind.

Power Engineer Somewhat agree I think it is a great idea to have foreign qualification holders to have to write the exams starting with the 4th and working up. Where they fail is where their qualification should be. This will force them to be familiar with our standards and vocabulary.

Power Engineer Strongly disagree Power Engineering is a standard. Everyone should have to go through the same process to get their qualifications. I do not believe that all countries have the same standards as Canada. To maintain our high standards all power engineers should have to go through the same process. Furthermore, I do not believe a power engineering shortage exists in BC. I personally know a lot of unemployed power engineers who cannot find work. I believe excepting non-standardized foreign qualifications is an unnecessary step.

Power engineer Somewhat disagree We can review their qualifications and if it something relavent and verifiable that is OK. It is hard though to have people fit into a different language and culture. In my experience when working with people like this they nod their head and say they understand but in a lot of cases do not really understand the whole concept.

Power engineer Strongly disagree Consider practical training assessment of individuals at local Power Engineering instructional facilities, such as BCIT

Power Engineer Strongly disagree It is necessary to have all Power Engineers pass the Standardized Power engineering exams. This will prove they have the level of competency and understanding necessary to preform the jobs

Page 57: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

required of them. In my opinion this is the best way to assess the skills of an individual.

Power Engineer Strongly agree If the assessment proposal of evaluating foreign credentials goes forward, I strongly believe there needs to be the use of peer review as part of the process.

Immigrant Engineer holding foreign (UK) credentials

Somewhat agree I think peer review of held credentials and an interview / oral assessment should be the primary means of determining an applicants credibility. Also, some standard international tickets (such as Marine Engineering) should be exempt from any examination and recognised as a standard equivalency with an interview / oral board used to confirm credibility. Something also needs to be done to better recognise tickets gained throug hthe Military which are not always accredited to civilian tickets, mainly because the Government does not want to carry the costs imposed by institutions for said accreditation. However, these tickets are often done to a higher level due to the nature of military work and training.

I am an instructor who teaches power engineering courses

Somewhat agree The peer review panel has to have strong power engineering background that includes educational and practical portion( it is hard to evaluate the qualification of higher level of education and practical experience if you do not posses one)

Power Engineer Strongly disagree All potential employees should be tested at the same Canadian standards.

I am the owner/operator of a plant that employs power engineers

Somewhat disagree I would be concerned that the peer review panel would not adequately recognize qualifying experience from other countries

Power Engineer Neither agree nor disagree Maybe we should just develop a program for SAIT and BCIT that they have to take to qualify. Just because they have the credentials does not mean they have the vocabulary or knowledge of our standards to act quickly in times of crisis. Its hard to count on foreign workers when it matters and a practical training or language immersion and understanding course would probably be a better way to transition them into our work force. But they should be tested on our safety standards, and be put in situations where they need to react quickly and speak quickly to native English speakers.

Power Engineer Somewhat agree As mentioned above. Depending on what role the individual held and how long in the industry they have worked would effect the process.

Page 58: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

We should evaluate provincial barriers first as many outside of BC and Alberta are unaware of how to become certified in Canada as a whole.

Power Engineer Strongly disagree Any foreign working wanting to become a power engineer should have to go through the same programs such as a Canadian to get their fourth, then so on. Even if they are over qualified to do so.

Power Engineer Somewhat agree presently we have many unemployed power engineers who are just looking for an opportunity to work. The effort we are doing in this consultation should be directed to the employers to develop training programs much like an apprenticeship to get the young engineers trained. The schools are producing in excess of 50 new engineers per year, but the jpb market is getting smaller

Power Engineer Somewhat agree applicant should be exam with practical skills and written exames

Power Engineer Somewhat disagree this process should be done with safety first and foremost, hire local Canadians first and not because Foreign interests want to dictate the rules of the game for their own purpose of bringing in their own workers and abusing them (paying them lower wages for their bottom line) in our so - called Democracy. When this happens you get angry Canadians and we all know what that leads to, it is called mistrust of Government, politicians, Industry, and stakeholder groups.

Power Engineer Strongly disagree Opening the flood gates to cheap foreign labour has already been tried in Fort McMurray with Millwrights and other trades and they simply could not do the work to both Canadian technical as well as safety standards. Quite honestly if Canadian employers can't pay the extra wage required of 1st and 2nd class tickets then the problem lies within industry. As for Canadian power engineers, it takes a huge amount of devoted study time to succeed at 2nd and 1st class exam papers while working 12 hour shifts and balancing families. So why would we sacrifice our time and efforts for no monetary compensation? If the BC Safety Authority or any other legal body involved here feels that industry can't pay more, then perhaps you need to re-evaluate and reduce the stringency of requirements at the 2nd and 1st class exam level for the provinces. But Alberta and other provinces would have to agree or we will lose our interprovincial like mobility.

Page 59: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Power Engineer Strongly disagree In regards to the question above regarding to a peer review panel it is critical that such a panel be balanced. I have concerns with it being dominated by industrial proponents and owners who's agenda may not serve the best interest of working power engineers, promote erosion of standards, job security in the field, British Columbians/Canadians and maintaining a high level of professionalism. Industrial proponents and owners certainly have a place on such a panel and their input considered, however must not be allowed to dominate and bias the process. I point this out as I've sat on working groups that have not been balanced and becomes quickly clear how easily a process can become bias and self serving. Checks and balances need to be in place.

Power Engineer Strongly agree There is often applicants from foreign or even across Canada that do not show a common standard for education or accreditation. This must be resolved before accepting them in our institutions and work places.

Power Engineer Somewhat agree I have seen to many power engineer licences handed out to people coming nto the country who have never seen a boiler and have no idea of what is expected of them.

Power Engineer Somewhat agree In my experience with handing out boiler licenses to ex Canadian Military who have experience with gas turbines is like giving a motor cycle rider a class 1 drivers license. These guys have no idea what they are doing when they walk into a boiler room.

Power Engineer Strongly agree I think the proposed assessment process is more fair than only allowing an applicant to start at the lowest level and redo all of his practical experience from that level.

Power Engineer Strongly agree Keep it Canadian, and firstly hire from residents of the province looking for workers then, gradually move outwards from that area. Too many people coming from far areas of Canada, taking jobs from locals who would love to work near home! For example, if company and work is in BC, hire BC people first, then Alberta, then Saskatchewan, Manitoba, etc. Quebec should be the last hired because of all the millions of dollars the rest of Canada gives them, because they are a "have not" province. We pay them to stay away, so stay away! It's not fair if we send them money, because they are short on jobs and money, and then they turn around and come here

Page 60: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

to look for jobs and work! They should not be able to have their cake and eat it too!

Foreign trained power engineer related job

Somewhat agree Suggest to make Unit of measures flexible e.g. Plant operating experience (1026 Form): Plant Size = HP KW M2

Power Engineer Somewhat agree Setting a standard for communication efficiency should be a high priority.

Power Engineer Somewhat agree There is a lack of employment opportunities for power engineers currently. Foreign qualifications lessens the value of the certifications.

Provincial Regulatory Authority

Strongly agree It needs a formal and thorough review of most technical programs delivered outside of Canada and the gaps to be determined. It is my opinion that foreign technical programs deliver and impart same level of safety diligence as Canadian programs do. For example, a common rule taught is do not operate a machine if you are not trained on it. This is common in all parts of the world. One thing also to be checked is on what basis the candidate immigrated to Canada. for example what was the NOC category used.

Power Engineer Strongly agree I disagree with using foreign qualifications. If this is direction that the industry is going, I hope that there is a very stringent review process involving members of industry, educators, and a skills test to insure that the qualifications that they claiming to have are the qualifications that they have. Also the applying for the qualifications claim still have to adhere to the same advancement schedule that is specified in the present regulations, and not able to come to Canada to apply for a first class certificate because they ran a plant in some other country.

Power Engineer Somewhat agree The applicant's day to day work activities should be discussed and the degree of hands-on experience evaluated.

Power Engineer Somewhat agree Should have to challenge and pass the same exams that a power engineer has to pass in order to get qualifications.

Page 61: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

PROPOSED 3-YEAR TERM FOR RENEWALS OF CERTIFICATES OF QUALIFICATION

Question: Is the proposed 3 year term for power engineers to renew their certificate of qualification with BC Safety Authority

reasonable? [Yes/No]

Group Representation Position Comments

Power Engineer No The term should be every five years. It seems that cash the motivation requiring recertification.

Power Engineer No The term should be every year. It is long overdue.

Power Engineer Yes I agree with certification renewal in order to track all current, practicing Power Engineers

Power Engineer Yes •An enhanced and durable wallet card that identifies my status as a power engineer •Access to courses or educational materials (both online and/or in-person) •My name placed on an opt-in online registry of currently certified power engineers that can be searched by employers/clients

Power Engineer No The term should be every five years. Hopefully this "renewal" process won't just be a naked "cash grab". There must be a clearly defined benefit to Power Engineers and employers from this certification process that commeasurates with the inevitable fees.

Power Engineer No

Power Engineer Yes After reviewing the subject matters. I think it will be good to implement these 3 plans for future power engineering program. In ABSA (Alberta Boiler pressure vessels Safety Authority), the requirements to renew the certification are for 1 year at $ 32.50 can, Two years for $65 can , and Three years for $ 97.50 can. and it is mandatory to renew at the expiration of the certificate. For best improvement

Power Engineer No I disagree of renewing this certificate at all

Power Engineer No Don't do a renewal process. Once we are certified we should remain certified for life.

Power Engineer No Great idea if you can figure out how to apply it to the fields are operators are specialized in and work in day to day. As the current fields are very broad, a lot of time would be spent on study and review

Page 62: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

of materials that may not be relevant to making us safe and competent operators. Myself I have no financial help for my exam costs, as well as another unpaid day to try and stay current.

Power Engineer No This appears to be a cash grab in the making. Although you are not proposing a few at this time, I can only deduce that a few will occur in the future.

Power Engineer No Leave it the way it is now!!

Power Engineer No I believe this proposal is valid. Operators study through the required material, write exams, put in work experience time, then write more exams. I think if this proposal happens, it may turn people away from entering into the power engineering field. I don't believe this is necessary.

Power Engineer No I view it as an unnecessary and expensive proposition

Student Yes BCSA should look for ABSA or other provincial model for certification renewal.

Power Engineer No Recertification should only be required if you are not actively in a position that requires your ticket

Power Engineer Yes What will the renewal entail? Is this a fee and former only, or a written test? If a test is required I think the questions should be different, because I think the answers would be very different.

Power Engineer No a renewal program is just a money grab to charge a fee to the power eng. it has no real benifit to safty, they have thi in alberta and if a person dosnt remember to pay their fee they lose thier certificate, total scam.

Power Engineer No I think this is a cash grab

Power Engineer No I don't feel the renewal is necessary. This is not the case for other red seal trades, and I don't think it should be a requirement for power engineers also.

Power Engineer No If all the services are provided in exchange for the renewal fees, that doensnt sound too bad. Otherwise it seems like a fee hike for no reason other than to hike fees.

Power Engineer No Care should be taken to not raise prices beyond those of other jurisdictions. Particular note should be made of the Antique Show Boiler Qualification, as these certificate holders do not have the opportunity to have an employer cover their costs, nor write off the expense on their taxes.

Page 63: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Power Engineer No Provides no additional benefit for a ticket holder than to line the pockets of these organizations.

Power Engineer No I'd like to see some benefit for my dollars spent. If you are going to charge me a renewal fee - what do I get for that? Help me find a job? If yes, then I'm in. Right now, I get no benefit, and I pay nothing. I'd pay for value.

Power Engineer No Why should we have to pay a renewal fee, this is one of the very few benefits we receive as a power engineer. This is nothing more than another BCSA tax grab

Power Engineer Yes An option to recieve at a fee a premium grade certificate that doesn't look photocopied or mass produced, ie: better paper or vellum, calligraphy, embossing etc.

Power Engineer No When renewing, power engineers should not have to rewrite any exams

Power Engineer No i see this renewal as a money grab. im pretty sure there will be a cost associated with it. if you really want to track power engineers why not have the employers submit a list of employees and have them pay the fees

Power Engineer No 1st and 2nd class Power Engineers should not have to renew their certification. If a person holds a certificate of competency as a 1st or 2nd Class Power Engineer it should be good for life. Power Engineers get a bad rap from P.eng's and should not have to prove their qualifications other than to have a certificate to show their qualification

Power Engineer Yes A durable wallet card similar to what TSASK provides and an online database of Power Engineers similar to ABSA's database would be a welcome resource.

Power Engineer No Power Engineers should not have to renew their certification.

Power Engineer No I think a certificate renewal just spells cash grab. Though I suppose it help identify how many power engineers are actually working in the province at a time, I don't see any true benefit of a renewal.

Power Engineer Yes If it helps the branch raise wages for the inspectors I'm all for it. We have to give inspectors competitive wages if we want to draw the best out of the field.

Power Engineer Yes The renewal should focus on safety and general questions and not be like the qualifying exam.

Page 64: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Power Engineer No The renewal recertification just be a fee that the employer pays for. If it is free then people working in non power engineer positions would re certify even though they are not working as a power engineer and would result in inaccurate numbers

Power Engineer Yes Guess I have to go through a renewal process now.

Power Engineer No BCSA doesn't have to play follow the leader. We can be individual. Strictly a cash grab. The safety authority knows how many tickets they grant in a year and to who and at what level. They also know how many requests and from where the requests are coming for engineers transferring to another jurisdiction. Should be easy to figure out. The only thing questionable would be deceased engineers

Power Engineer No I don't agree with a renewal program. This is just a money grab and doesn't benefit anyone. Safety Authority doesn't have the manpower to do what is required now.

Power Engineer No Leave it as a lifetime achievment

Power Engineer No Once you REALLY care about quality level of the power engineers that should start from the fact that Pan Global books still contain a lot of mistakes not to mention misprints, through so many years of use.

Power Engineer No Once you are a power engineer in BC you should not have to renew .

Power Engineer No Price the fees reasonably. We as British Columbia are taxed enough and charged enough fees everywhere else.

Power Engineer Yes There must be a clearly defined benefit to Power Engineers and employers from this certification process that commensurates with the inevitable fees.

Power Engineer No What are the gains to renewal of tickets?

Power Engineer No Stream line the process to have my tickets match between provinces. The administration to transfer between provinces is ridiculous, fix that before you fix the unqualified to qualified foreign worker program

Power Engineer No I am not against the certificate renewal, I do think the option to have a new certificate (wall size) option should be available with the renewal. I gained my PE training at SAIT and certificate through ABSA and then transferred to BCSA because BC is where I live, so I know about the renewal process, as ABSA does this. When I transferred to BCSA I was pleasantly surprised to know that I did not have to renew my certificate (at that moment I was truly appreciative). The cost to renew must be reasonable in cost and time. As far as a shortage of Power

Page 65: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Engineers goes, I am most certainly not convinced of that! I have applied many times for different Power Engineering jobs that have been posted and the one thing that is common is the number of applicants that apply. Several jobs that I previously applied to have had over six hundred applicants (this does not suggest a PE shortage). I believe the idea of a PE shortage comes from job postings that pay minimal wages with high cost of living. There needs to be a base salary for one's certification and then an increase in salary on top of the base rate for work performed other than Power Engineer work. This will attract the PE available as what I have previously described suggests. The PE shortage is not in the form of lack of PE but rather in the form of appealing jobs that are able to sustain a family.

Power Engineer Yes Great idea for tracking the labour pool. Smells like a cash grab in the wind...

Power Engineer No Disagree with cash cow... not necessary. Lot of people cant afford to work in B.C. as a Power Engineer, or can find work. Trades don't pay trade fees ! Just my oppinion.

Power Engineer No response Is another examination part of the renewal or just a fee?

Power Engineer No Why is this even being considered. I read the proposal and see that we have a typical government agency trying to justify their existence. I don't need another ex. $150 taken out of my pocket and the inconvenience of another expiring certificate.

Power Engineer No I am torn in support of renewal. I hesitantly would be in favour under the condition that fees are never introduced. Renewal fees are viewed as taxation or a "money grab". Qualifications that have been earned should be permanent. Punishing those that fail to renew due to a variety of circumstances ie. change of address etc. seems contradictory to trying to address the issue of worker shortages.

Power Engineer No Why should we have to conform to what the other provinces are doing, what is wrong with allowing us to remain certified with out renewal. if you want up to date information on who is working in the field why not look at plant employment records, ( ie. make the employer of plants keep and up to date list of ticketed employees and send it into BCSA). as I would feel that would show a more current data on who is working in the field compared to who "may" work in the field. as just because

Page 66: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

some one renews their ticket it does not mean they are working in the field as PE.

Power Engineer Yes I am in favour of this, certification for life is not in our best interests. The Power Engineer will be updated on new technologies and regulations through this re-certification process.

Power Engineer No certificate renewal is just a cash grab.

Power Engineer No Current system is better . There should not be any renewal policy. Once u are certified thats it. This will demotivate people to choose this profession especially imposing renewal fees . Then it will be viewed as first aid ticket that need recertification every 3 years

Power Engineer No The course and exam fees were enough of an expense. Also the certificate of qualification was lifetime. I definitely feel this is another tax grab!!

Power Engineer Yes Renewal criteria should be based upon the completion of a online generic course that highlight regulatory changes.

Power Engineer Yes Many experienced power engineers accumulate their knowledge through years of experience, however, there are some who quickly forget what they learned and have no motivation to catch up. Certificate renewal provision will give power engineers motivation to keep their knowledge up to the certification they hold. Even better, they may as well become motivated to pursue a higher level of certification. The value of power engineer certification, after all, mainly depends on how knowledgeable the holder are.

Power Engineer No I truly don't believe that a power engineer should have to renew their qualification. Your Question "If you responded "No" to the questions above, in your opinion what would be a more reasonable term?" should have a last option of No, not need to renew the Certificate. By not having that option, you have created a biased review that skues the results by not give an option that maybe about 50% of people views (in my opinion).

Power Engineer No The I.D. of the registered power engineer must be validated so that the person that actually holds the certification is indeed that person. Fraud cross check.

Power Engineer Yes Certificate renewal is long overdue.

Power Engineer No I was under the impression that this was the BC Safety Authority and safety was the main goal! So why are just Power Engineers going to

Page 67: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

be charged for the Power Engineer Certifications and not for example Millwrights, Electricians and Elevator service provider repairs to elevators. I seen a lot of bad in the our work force and they do not have to go through re-certification. I understand we are the front line of many industries but still it should be for anyone that falls under the BC Safety Authority not just Power Engineers!

Power Engineer No I don't see a need for renewal requirements. Once you have achieved your certificate, why would there be a need to renew it?

Power Engineer No do not charge fee for renewal process this is a scam. also came from alberta where renewal process happens. it is expensive and a bit problematic for workers who forget or information changes and they dont receive notice their ticket becomes not valid. this is a horrible process. i was very happy to come to bc and learn about their process of non renewal. i bet their will be virtually 0 power engineers that want this new renewal process. thank you

Power Engineer No I do not feel here is a need for certification renewal. If there is a renewal, it should be of no cost.

Power Engineer No I see the value in having a current registry of people and their tickets, and if they are actively using the ticket, but I'm not into paying a fee every few years

Power Engineer Yes Highly recommend. Registration of all licenced power engineers. It's a good tool as verification can be established .

Power Engineer No Most of the benefits listed in the consultation material are not really benefits... -Standardization with other Canadian jurisdictions... - I don't see how this would enhance the credibility of BC power engineering certificates or how it would increase power engineer mobility. BC power engineers are already recognized across the country as having a high standard of qualification, and already have high mobility across provinces. -Opportunity to establish a voluntary, accessible database... - This could be possible today. BC power engineers are already on file. All that is required is a letter, email, or phone call. -Ability to provide current and up-to-date workforce information... - I agree that this could be useful, especially when paired with Plant Registration. -Reduced administrative complexity... - Will this be the case? It seems to me certificate renewal will only place a heavier burden on the already stressed BCSA administrators. What will

Page 68: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

happen when a power engineer does not renew in time? More paperwork. Finally, I have concerns that this will end up being an easy cash grab. I noticed that plant registration is specifically described as having no fee, while certificate renewal fees will be "subject to a future consultation". Is this perhaps because of the influence of industry partners in the development of these changes? Despite these concerns, I agree that a 3 year certificate renewal is a positive change, if only to gain a better picture of those active in the industry.

Power Engineer No Any possibility of fees in future for renewal is in my opinion a plain and simple tax grab. Remove the possibility of future fees from discussion.

Power Engineer No I strongly disagree with certificate renewal in any way

Power Engineer No I possess a millwright ,machinist and 3rd class power engineering certificate. When I moved here 10 years ago I requested a transfer of my 3rd class from Alberta. I was told by the Kelowna office that I would have to rewrite. I ended up quitting my job in Vernon and commuting to Alberta. I see the B.C. Safety Authority as carrying things too far. A sense of self importance . I believe my qualifications were every bit as good as the individuals that I talked to. If you are short people it is your own incompetence that is to blame.

Power Engineer No Most recognized Red Seal Trades in BC do not require Certificate renewal (Carpenters, Electricians, Plumbers, etc) so why should we. Even though you say no fee will be associated I don't see that lasting forever. I just see it as a cash grab.

Power Engineer No If it should happen, please lower exam fees.

Power Engineer No There is no description of what this proposed certification renewal involves.

Power Engineer No If I am required to pay a fee in order to continue to function as a power engineer then there would need to be some benefit in doing so; like potential employers being able to seek me out with job opportunities or something of that nature. If it is simply pay a fee to get re certified then I see this as a potential cash cow. It would be kind of like renewing a drivers licence. I don't see the benefit.

Power Engineer No Perhaps entry level PE's should renew after their 5th year, and every 2 years thereafter. Already employed PE's should renew every 2/3 years. 1st Class and 2nd Class should have a longer renewal term, every 3-5 years.(added incentive)

Page 69: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Power Engineer No Don't need the recertification process. Just because everyone else is doing it doesn't mean its the right thing to do.This has never been needed in the past and appears to be a money grab service. Post the certification enquiry request service online. Make it a requirement that your certificate can be verified at any time by an employer when receiving a certificate. Less administration, less costs, less administrative hassle. As much as you think the companies will pay for this, the companies pay enough tax already.

Power Engineer No With a database of emails, a quarterly newsletter of industry happenings by direct email to those that request on issues such as number of people passing tests, number of foreign evaluations performed, safety updates, new plant applications would be an asset. This could include a feedback section and FAQ.

Power Engineer No I am unable to comment on this as I do not know the criteria for eligible to renew

Power Engineer No The idea of a renewal for certification is just another money grab. I have had a 4th Class certificate since 2003, and have had no contact until now, when money is demanded so cut the smoke screen

Power Engineer No it is a cash grab

Power Engineer No At present I hold a certification in Alberta and BC. The renewal process in Alberta is perceived by most members as a simple tax grab. Be aware that most people that hold certification in both provinces will not renew in both. I can tell you I will not renew in BC.

Power Engineer No Keep the cash grab to a minimum and make it easy to do online.

Power Engineer No Why now ...is this not just a money grab? Was there issues that are serious ....what about doctors and lawyers ,policemen do they need to be recertified ....no so why should we ....it's all about the money

Power Engineer No THIS IS A CASH GRAB! Are all trades workers in BC required to renew their certifications? No. Are electricians, carpenters, plumbers required to renew? No. This is absolute garbage and a scam! If renewal is free for lifetime with a clause that states that no fees will ever be charged and this is used ONLY as a database for BCSA & employers to track currently active power engineers then i support it. IF THERE IS ANY FEE CHARGED, I DO NOT SUPPORT IT!

Page 70: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Power Engineer Yes It would be ideal so the people within industry could truly see how many qualified people there are in B.C. in comparison to how many people are actually working.

Power Engineer No Don't do it. I'm opposed. While there is a real need for ongoing safety training, fall protection, asbestos in the workplace inter alia, don't mess with our qualifications. All the work to get it... Then you can lose it? You think there is a shortage now? You'll start a stampede to other jurisdictions.

Power Engineer Yes registry should not be opt in. should be mandatory so qualifications can be verified. If certificates are to expire there needs to be a very good system in place to ensure no mistakes are made. I have been consistently disappointing with the quality of service I have received from the BCSA. The BCSA consistently makes more mistakes than any other public or private bureaucracy I have ever encountered. I have spent hours of my life on the phone trying to have these mistakes corrected. If peoples livelihoods are on the line, as they would be in the case of certificate renewal mistakes, these mistakes can not be allowed to happen.

Power Engineer No I am okay with the renewal if it is without a fee. A registry of certified power engineers is a great idea to ensure certified people are the only ones working.

Power Engineer Yes Make the process easy and online.

Power Engineer No It's [bad] and should not be done. If absolutely necessary, make it a ten year renewal

Power Engineer No ABSA is a far more effective regulatory body once removed from governmental bunglings. I feel this would far better address and protect Power Engineer's interests in this province.

Power Engineer No The proposed certificate renewal is nothing but a cash grab .There are many other avenues that will lead to the data required . The fact that the other provinces are presently charging this and that they don't seem to be accessing the required data from this process as this proposal indicates B.C. will , proves my point . I am not buying your reasoning for a second .

Power Engineer Yes The BCSA needs to know who is using their tickets. There are many people in my place of work that are doing jobs not related to their

Page 71: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

steam tickets. Keeping the number of active tickets down would give schools better ideas of power engineering demographics.

Power Engineer No Totally disagree, once certified you should be certified for life! This is just another tax that we don't want or need.

Power Engineer No Yes, it seems like a money grab to me. BC currently doesn't require you to renew. What would be the fee

Representative of an organization/association that represents power engineers

No the renewal idea should be scrapped, this is just another way to gain revenue nothing more. Its like telling someone who ahs completed an indentured apprentice ship that they have to pay every 3 years to keep the status.

Power Engineer No As above, I feel this is a BCSA/ Provincial cash grab.

Power Engineer No I believe its just another way for the government to get more money out of the pockets of skilled trades. Alberta employees this fee, yet their examination cost is a lot less. I believe if this is to be employed then the cost of examinations should be dropped. There are too many jobless power engineers as is in BC, the last thing they need is to pay through their nose to try and get ahead in their career to be more of a valuable candidate for employment.

Power Engineer No Once a power engineer always a power engineer . Just like a mechanic or a class 1 driver or a welder . This is not needed

Power Engineer No It feels like qualifications are becoming a sort of temporary qualification. Candidates work hard to qualify. They spend reasonable time and resources to get to this stage. It is nice if successful candidates have a satisfaction and can hold it for life time.

Chief Power Engineer Yes Certification costs will likely be assumed by the employer Certification renewal should be yearly to allow for accurate & effective budgeting for companies. - 3 year or 5 year renewals lead to increased administrative costs The data tracked and provided through the renewal process must be kept private and secured by the BCSA in order to prevent infringement on an individuals rights.

Power Engineer No I feel this is just a form of tax.

Power Engineer No Only make those individuals that have not used their ticket in an applicable job for a defined period of time (~2yrs) have to pay renewal fees once a new employment is found. If the ticket has not been used for >5yrs, then an equivalency / qualification renewal test should be written in order to prove that said worker is competent.

Page 72: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Power Engineer Yes There is a need to meld a process of identifying "Bad behavior" in this profession. Currently there are no processes in place to stop a Power Engineer who has been terminated for multiple lock-out violations, has been disciplined for abusing sick leave or substance abuse..... from going to work at another facility or province. There needs to be a means of flagging these people so the poor attitude and trend doesn't continue and is not passed on to the next generation which in turn lowers the standards of our profession. These type of people should also be banned from ever gaining employment as an instructor or teacher. [The workers’ compensation board] keeps statistics on some of this info. Mandatory random drug testing should also be implemented as well as criminal record checks that are interpretable. (Or dare I say this might eliminate half the work force)

Power Engineer No Possibly renew every ten years.

I am an instructor who teaches power engineering courses

Yes While I understand the benefits of renewal, I am concerned that it could become a "money grab"

Power Engineer No There are a lot of power engineers that graduate every year that can't find work. These should be priority over hiring foreign workers to work for a lower rate. Certificates shouldn't have a renewal period as we currently pay the most out of the provinces for writing the power engineering exams. If this were to go down to alberta fees then it could be possible to maybe do it every five years.

I am the owner/operator of a plant that employs power engineers

No response Too little information to answer the questions above. Is this renewal a cash grab, or is a level of continued training or display of competency required?

Power Engineer No I don't want to have to renew my certificate every three years. I don't think that as professionals power engineers should have to renew their certificates any more than, other trades/professions have to renew their credentials. The main example of this are red seal trades.

Power Engineer No In what other profession do individuals need to renew their license?

Power Engineer Yes The proposed renewal process should model the one of ABSA, as it works, and is proven. In addition, the BCSA should put on training/educational courses along all aspects of the regulatory framework, much the same as is done by ABSA.

Page 73: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

I hold a power engineer certificate and work in the warehouse at a power plant

No Sounds like a money grab by the government sugar coated with safety [baloney]

Power Engineer No Personally I see these certificate renewal requirements as nothing more than a money grab for an ever inflating bureaucracy. I understand you made the statement that fees would be something to be discussed at a later date. Come on, you know fees will be involved. I don't see anything in the above 'additional services' that makes me buy into the renewal scheme. I do however agree that if we in BC are part of the Inter-provincial, or Red Seal standardized criteria across Canada, then we should be doing what the rest of the country is doing. And if that's periodic renewal, then so be it. Again, I must say that if I get no benefits from having to renew my certificate, and I have to pay a fee for it, then it is nothing more than a simple money grab to support yet another level of feeding at the public trough. If renewals are contemplated, please do us the favor of sending out a reminder prior to the expiry date of the certificate. Also consider what happens if a certificate is allowed to expire. What is the process for renewing it? I ask these questions because a lot can happen over 3 or 5 years, and the renewal of a piece of paper in my back pocket is not necessarily at the forefront.

Power Engineer No Call it what it is, a straight cash grab. The authority has always had the responsibility and duty to maintain a list of engineers, track them, and standardize credentials across Canada. The implication that this isn't happening is alarming, and the cash grab to now get this in place is insulting.

Power Engineer No See comments above.

I am the representative of an organization/association that represents companies who employ power engineers

No Seems like another cash grab with little benefit.

Power Engineer No I originally got me certification in Alberta and then transferred it here to my home province of B.C. ABSA has a renewal system with fees and a registry which I think is a great system and much better than ours. HOWEVER this is funded by a renewal fee and I honestly cannot believe that we will follow suit but without a renewal fee. We already

Page 74: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

pay way more to write an exam in B.C. Then they do in Alberta. If you lowered our exam fees then I would be happy to put in a renewal process which will inevitably [go] with some sort of fee. (It would have to be a very low fee, I think it's $32 a year in Alberta). ABSA also has an online account that u can sign into to see all of your test scores and apply right from your account for future exams. B.C. Would also have to adopt a similar system to get my vote on certificate renewals.

Power Engineer No There should be NO RENEWAL PROGRAM! The only review should, maybe, for any Power Engineer who has reached 65-70 years of age. Like a drivers lic. an individual may no longer be mentally competent. I agree there should be enhanced identification and tracking of Power Engineers. As you have set up this questionaire it is designed to get agreement to a pre-decided result. Power Engineers bring training, education, and experience. Without any one of these, he is not a Power Engineer. He is an Engineer in training. Graduates from schools seem to be graduating thinking that they are fully ready to take up duties. Company HR department seem to think that they are just as competent as a multi-year individual. Lowering wages is always a goal of employers trying to control costs. Saying that there will be no fees is just a wedge to get the issue passed with less argument. You are going to push this through. Then start demanding fees to cover costs.

Power Engineer No None of your term periods for ticket renewals are suitable. There should be no ticket renewals, they were promised for life when we earned them, it would be wrong for you to charge us for them now. It's very obvious that there will be renewal fees attached to that. And I find it very disrespectful that you aren't mentioning those fees in the survey. Don't sell out safety for more money, your organization is meant to protect us, not just cash in from us.

I am the maintenance manager in a Dairy that employees power engineers

No

I woudl need to know mor edetaisl on what this entails?

Power Engineer No Taking refresher course every 5 years to be eligible for certification renewal.

Power Engineer No Renewing a certificate every 10 years seems adequate. If someone is trying to progress up a level of certification and is focusing on

Page 75: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

studying, it would take away from that focus if they were forced to "recertify" every three years on their current level of certification.

I am the owner/operator of a plant that employs power engineers

No This is mostly a cash grab. An applicant just has to pay a fee and is granted another extension. A person with a degree does not have to renew their degree on a periodic basis. When a person completes their training their education continues to grow through experience. A renewal fee is just a money grab.

Power Engineer Yes It's time has come. BCSA has absolutely no idea how many Power Engineers are in the Province, what level of certification they have and employers are sometimes fooled by fake certificates.

Power Engineer No The renewal process is just another cash grabAs I am sure there will be a renewal fee.You can cloak it under what ever guise you want but all it is is a cash grab which will constantly increase to pay the wages of the people tabulating the information. Workers and employers are already dealing with an excess of qualification renewals in the Refrigeration Plant Operator Class.Ie:Lift truck resert.,Filling Propane Cylinders, Confined Space, Fall Arrest , Sissor Lift, Zoom Boom, Food Safe,Mask Fitting, Lock Out,And more are being added yearly and I may have missed some. All this will do is create another level of bureaucracy and added cost to industries which are already struggling to function under the present excess of resertifications. This is another bad idea!!!

Power Engineer No As long as it's not just going to be a vehicle for a future money grab, I'm in.

Power Engineer No The very fact that you do not have as an option not to have a renewable certification speaks to an agenda being forced upon the workers and Industry. If no proposals in relation to the renewal of power engineering certificates then why are our choices limited to 1-5 years. If we do not agree with the mandate then why is the survey tailored to a yes vote. Shame on the BCSA for trying to pull the wool over our eyes. By not having a "not interested" in renewals, it could be said that we were all in agreement when we in fact were not.

I am a First Class Motor Marine Engineer

No The marine industry (Transport Canada) requires mariners to show proof of sea time by having the proper forms completed and signed by the employers. This puts the onus for the seatime on the employers as they can be held liable for improperly completed documents.

Page 76: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Power Engineer No I consider a Certificate to be similar to a University degree and a trades ticket. Neither have to be renewed. This proposal has all the appearances of a money grab. If this is just to know the current status of engineers then that may be alright but it should be at no cost to Power Engineers who have already sacrificed time and money in their field. I don't mind registering every 3-5 years but it should be simple, online and cost free.

Power Engineer No Renewal of Certification is not reasonable. But if you MUST then every 10 years is the only reasonable option (not offered)

Power Engineer No re-certification is just a money grab - this survey is skewed for not allowing that option

Power Engineer No As the current fields are very broad, a lot of time would be spent on study and review of materials that may not be relevant to making us safe and competent operators. I, myself have no financial help for my exam costs, travel costs, as well as another unpaid day to try and stay current. this appears to be a cash grab in the making. Although you are not proposing a fee at this time, I know you will in the future.

Unsure, received via email Yes I believe if there is goin too be re certification for power engineers it should be job specific and free

Unsure, received via email No I want to formally protest the plan to have renewal of certificates of qualification after three years, that is ridiculous. Are you asking the Doctors and Police and Firefighters and other Trades to do the same. State your rational that has merit. Just because other province’s do this does not mean we have to jump on the band wagon, your rational has little merit. The red seal gives mobility across Canada now there is no need to go down this road. You’re making it watered down and a joke to have renewal.

Unsure, received via email No it is not fair that we would have to renew our certificate of qualification as no other trades people are under similar obligations. It looks like and definitely appears to be a straight up money grab by the BCSA. One may claim it on taxes but not all of it will be covered.

Unsure, received via email No Is this three year renewal of qualification goin too cost the power engineer a fee too Renew if it does how much would it be. I am not against keeping the industry safe and the engineers sharp but after you have paid for approved course and examination too be qualified I

Page 77: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

feel that asking for a fee every three years would not be good idea and if a engineer does not pass reexamination will they be terminated from there position?

Power Engineer No I think this is a money grab

Industrial Electrician and Power Engineer

No I currently do not agree with the proposed renewal of the Power Engineering certifications. I personally feel that this somewhat contradicts the first proposal about recognizing foreign workers qaulifications. The demand for Power engineers is high and I feel implementing a ticket renewal could potentially disqualify an already perfectly qualified power engineer from carrying on with their jobs, opening the door to foreign workers. I feel that the current process is sufficient. Power Engineering is a very Broad range of different things and I feel from personal experience that a Power engineer really learns when they are actively working in a plant. The issue here is that the already qualified Power Engineer has now adapted to that plant and its equipment which could be vastly different from what may they may be quizzed on during a renewal. It takes a lot of time and effort to obtain these tickets, and if a renewal is employed you will only see a decline of power engineers and people who want to pursue it.. I felt that changing the firing times a while back was sufficient enough to fast track power engineers. It is slowly being chipped away at and now a guy can obtain the lower class tickets so fast it is ridiculous. Sometimes not going with the status quoe is a good thing. I am currently pursuing a Second Class ticket and know that it took me 2 years to obtain my third through a lot of hard work. I was required to do a sketch and describe exam for my 3rd class and now that is gone too. I felt this test was a good test of the quality of power engineer you were actually getting. If a renewal is employed it actually makes me question wether or not I want to carry on with power engineering at all. I also hold an Industrial electrical Red seal which I am not required to renew............same should go for power engineering.

Power Engineer No I have been an Electrician for over 35 years and obtained my 4th Class Stationary Engineering Certificate about 25 years ago. I wrote my Provincial Electrical TQ exam ONCE…likewise for my “B” Contractor’s License: only ONCE. Driver’s License: ONCE. Hunter

Page 78: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Training and Firearms Acquisition: ONCE. Most other Trades (Plumbers, Carpenters, Welders, etc) are not required to re-certify unless they change disciplines within their own Trade. Is my Dentist required to re-certify every three years? My Doctor? Requiring Power Engineers to re-certify is akin to admitting that their initial training is insufficient. If this is the case, then perhaps an overhaul of the entrance qualifications is in order…but requiring complete re-certification every three years (when NO OTHER TRADE is required to do so) is un-necessary and redundant, as far as I’m concerned.

Power Engineer Yes BC has been lagging other provinces in maintaining a database of Power Engineers. Certificate fraud is not all that common, but it does happen. Also, the extra revenue must go into and enhance the Boiler Program at the BCSA by providing better services and increase the number of Safety Officers. BCSA should only permit Boiler Inspectors to invigilate Power Engineer examinations. The extra revenue could go to pay part time or retired Boiler Inspectors to invigilate the exams.

Power Engineer No I don't like the Idea of certificate renewal. I think BC is doing a great job in comparison with other provinces in regards to the regulations of Power Engineers and upholding their standards and I do not want to see any changes. Other provinces use the certificate renewal as a money grab and it hurts power engineers financially. I don't work for a company that will pay for my certificate so that money will come out of my families pocket. I struggle to put money away for my daughters education and the last thing I need is another bill to pay every 5 years.

Power Engineer No If there isn't any requirements for renewal, what's the point? Why would you need to renew a ticket? There shouldn't be a renewal unless an applicant would be required to show continued work experience or some sort of "refresher exam" to ensure they're either still working in the field, or still qualified. If you aren't assessing then there is no point in renewing... just leave everyone's ticket valid forever.

Representative of an organization/association that represents companies who employ power engineers

Yes There is a need to properly keep track of the BC registered power engineers to ensure the supply will be able to meet the demand

Page 79: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Aspiring power engineer with foreign experience

Yes Certificate renewal process in my opinion also helps to validate that power engineers are practicing their profession and continuing to further the quality and experience of practicing power engineers. Renewals may require power engineers to be in their profession and actively working in the industry or academe

I am a power engineer and also an owner of multiple plants that employ over 75 power engineers

No Many Power Engineers hold certifications but do not actively use them. Myself for example. I hold a 4th class, a technical diploma, a bachelor's degree and a master's degree. I am employed as the owner of multiple plants employing well over 75 Power Engineers. I have many Supervisors, Coordinators and Managers who hold varying levels of PE certification. Myself and many who hold PE certs are not going to go back and renew our PE certificate through any fee based program and or exam process. I attend many education sessions and general management types of programs that offer CEU type credits. I do not have to requalify for any of my other education and thus I am not sure how much this type of recertification would really benefit many sides of the PE equation. I guess right now I'm on the fence. There is quite a bit of perception out there that this is going to be another BCSA paper based cash grab.

Power Engineer No Government cash grab. Put burden of renewal on the employers.

Power Engineer Yes An evaluation on how many tickets are active should be completed BEFORE a power engineer workplace shortage is claimed and BEFORE foreign qualifications are considered.

Power engineer Yes This would be a good move. There would be less questions about the certification authenticity. This will also give us a better idea how many engineers are out there.

I am the owner/operator of a plant that employs power engineers

No Re-testing should not be a requirement as each plant and specific knowledge of that system is more important. Many of our team members struggle with test taking as they are ESL.

Power Engineer No I don't like the Idea of certificate renewal. I think BC is doing a great job in comparison with other provinces in regards to the regulations of Power Engineers and upholding their standards and I do not want to see any changes. Other provinces use the certificate renewal as a money grab and it hurts power engineers financially. I don't work for a company that will pay for my certificate so that money will come out of

Page 80: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

my families pocket. I struggle to put money away for my daughters education and the last thing I need is another bill to pay every 5 years.

Power Engineer No I have a wallet card, is this no longer part of the certification process?

Power Engineer No Will there be a fee involved? if so employers should pay...otherwise NOT AGREED!!

Immigrant Engineer holding foreign (UK) credentials

No This is a good idea but it should follow the Marine Engineering industry model whereby if you are employed in the job, either directly (in the plant) or in a direct support role (service, Facility Manager, Project Manager etc), you ticket is automatically renewed without any aditional exams / interviews / oral boards. However, if you are out of the job for a set time within that period (e.g. 2 years), then a means of testing competency should be applied i.e. interview / oral board.

Power Engineer No I disagree with the proposed certification renewal program. It should not difficult to determine the amount of qualified Power Engineers currently licensed.

Power Engineer Yes This should be set up before considering foreign workers. Certificate renewal would tell us if we truly have a Power Engineer shortage or not.

Power Engineer No Read the book "Make it stick" its about how testing is the key to learning. If you want to improve safety and standards of power engineers books and renewal exams aren't the way to do it. What you want to do is make a continuous learning program that people can opt into and be recognized for their continued effort. Building Operators don't need to know everything about sour gas refineries so why would we take exams on it every 5 years? Make a program for continued learning that includes lots of small exams and let people improve themselves. This forced renewal plan is only going to make the practical people leave and the theoretical people get even bigger egos until they are in a situation where their older talented operator is no longer there during a crisis.

Power Engineer No I think that many of us would have difficulty recertifying as much of what we learn is not used daily in the lower classes. I would suggest a simple recertification test as a test your knowledge and of course a very nominal fee.

Power Engineer No I believe there should be no renewal of certifications, once you have it, you don't need to renew it. What I think BC safety authority should be

Page 81: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

focusing their time on is making more exam dates for your certification. I should be able to come in any time of the month to write an exam.

I am the owner/operator of a plant that employs power engineers

No Current certificates should be grand fathered IFO exempt

Power Engineer No we do need to register the engineers within the province. we should have a current status of all certificate holders the annual registration should not be seen as a money grab so the fees should be kept within reason. Employers would have to support the re-education training as most courses are in the $500 range so some committment will have to made by industry

Power Engineer No I think it should be a reasonable fee and should be renewed for 5 years

1st class No 5 years renewal with a reasonable fee

Power Engineer Yes this method seems fair and reasonable in my opinion.

Power Engineer No If industry can't bare the cost of higher pay for higher tickets at the 1st and 2nd class level then how can you justify adding extra cost for certificate renewal which is always paid by the employer? I totally disagree with certificate renewal which is nothing more than an unnecessary fee based money grab.

Power Engineer No The glaring question, is this nothing more than a money grab where it will be lost in the abyss of general revenue? "any fees associated with certificate renewals would be subject to future consultation". If fees are required they must be designated to a specific purpose before collected and public able to view money generated and exactly how it was spent. ***If renewal fees are to be applied the cost to maintain power engineering certificates in good standing WILL be paid for by the EMPLOYER where as a function of their operation power engineering certification is required.***

Unsure, has power engineering credentials, doesn’t work as a PE

Neutral If the new world requires a confirmation that I am alive, that I still hold my 2nd Class Power Certification as valid, then I will do so, however, this was never a requirement at the time that we sat for our exams and should not be introduced as a mandatory requirement now. I would suggest that if SES wishes to implement such a requirement then it should be from the date that the decision to do so is implemented and

Page 82: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

those holding certification prior to that date be “Grandfathered” and not requirement to annually register.

I would be totally destroyed to lose my certification because of a technicality of missing a re-registration date. I worked too hard to gain what I earned.

If consideration is given to charging a fee to maintain ones status on the SES registration of active Power Engineering Certificate holders, than anything other than a nominal fee would be unfair. It would be like taxing on for holding their qualifications. It was never that way before. Again, this should be “from this day forward” and only applied to persons upgrading or obtaining their certification for the first time.

Employees at a Recreation Centre

No The term should be every five years, can’t help but think it is nothing but and another cash grab, But also not apply to a certificate holder of more than 25 years in one facility If a renewal is required for a current date then it should be same process as a driver license pay the renewal fee and it is done.

Facility Manager at Hospital No I would like to add my opinion to what is surely a GROWING list of complaints regarding the proposed changes; specifically, the constant renewal of Certification for Power Engineers. I have been an Electrician for over 35 years and obtained my 4th Class Stationary Engineering Certificate about 25 years ago. I wrote my Provincial Electrical TQ exam ONCE…likewise for my “B” Contractor’s License: only ONCE. Driver’s License: ONCE. Hunter Training and Firearms Acquisition: ONCE. Most other Trades (Plumbers, Carpenters, Welders, etc) are not required to re-certify unless they change disciplines within their own Trade. Is my Dentist required to re-certify every three years? My Doctor? Requiring Power Engineers to re-certify is akin to admitting that their initial training is insufficient. If this is the case, then perhaps an

Page 83: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

overhaul of the entrance qualifications is in order…but requiring complete re-certification every three years (when NO OTHER TRADE is required to do so) is un-necessary and redundant, as far as I’m concerned.

Power Engineer No The proposal to renew Power Engineer Certifications is an absolute cash grab and a joke to anyone with half a brain. The BC Safety Authority is a privately run company that is looking to increase profits at the extent of the blue collar working man. With new higher efficiency equipment that lowers plant classifications and thus reduces operating permits & fees the BCSA is looking for a way to augment their income. If the renewal program is implemented with NO FEES, I would support it. But if there is any fee for the lifetime of the renewal I 100% DO NOT SUPPORT IT.

Power Engineer No I totally disagree with charging a fee for Certification. It is a tax grab only. Not paying a fee is what sets BC apart from the rest of Canada. If the BCSA were following their own regulation they would have an up-to-date list of where all the Power Engineers are in the Province. The Inspectors are not doing their job. They visit every plant and can see every certificate in the plant. A few years ago the BCSA asked each plant for a current list of Power Engineers. Other Professional Certifications are not charged a fee but they must belong to a professional society and be up-to-date in their dues. We can do the same with the IPE. A persons certificate and livelihood should never be put in jeopardy because of some payment failure and blatant tax grab.

Power Engineer Yes bc can model after ABSA in Alberta. Or join forces with absa

Power Engineer No I totally disagree with charging a fee for Certification. It is a tax grab only. Not paying a fee is what sets BC apart from the rest of Canada. If the BCSA were following their own regulation they would have an up-to-date list of where all the Power Engineers are in the Province. The Inspectors are not doing their job. They visit every plant and can see every certificate in the plant. A few years ago the BCSA asked each plant for a current list of Power Engineers. Other Professional

Page 84: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Certifications are not charged a fee but they must belong to a professional society and be up-to-date in their dues. We can do the same with the IPE. A persons certificate and livelihood should never be put in jeopardy because of some payment failure and blatant tax grab.

Power Engineer No I have held licences in other provinces where tickets had to be renewed. If you forget to renew, you lost your license. Isn't that exactly backwards to what you are trying to accomplish?

Power Engineer Yes I am in favour of the maintenance of a database of currently active Power Engineers in B.C.

Power Engineer Yes Hire Canadians first! Immigration Canada offers incentives to hire foreign workers by paying a portion of their wages, and most of these immigrants do not have to pay taxes for 3-5 years! Not fair!

Power Engineer Yes I dont belive the on line registery should be opt in.

Power Engineer Yes The on-line registry provides a quick and easy way to ensure a power engineer holds a valid certificate.

Provincial Regulatory Authority

No This BCSA membership should start automatically with a fee with when a power engineer gets a certificate of qualification. Renewable every 2 years with an online quiz. Membership should be renewable every two years. In order for a 2 year quiz renewal, a few online continuing education programs should be passed before granting renewal. Every 6th year, there should be a re-write of complete exam, similar to a initial exam at a BCSA office. The membership can be at various levels for instance gold membership, silver membership etc. Newsletters and consultations tied to this membership.

Power Engineer No No Renewal term should be needed, passed your material as needed, waste of time to do it over and over. Red Seal Journeymen don't need to do this to keep they qualifications

Power Engineer Yes This is more of a question, and something to consider, with the renewal process. What if the certificate comes up for renewal, and the power engineer is unemployed? I was unemployed and I took the time to finish my 2nd. If my certificate would have come up for renewal, how would I renew because I would not have had a plant registration number to attach to my application.

Power Engineer Yes As part of the registry, A section for retired Power Engineers or those involved in associated fields who maintain their certifications and

Page 85: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

whom may be doing outside consultation work or mentoring in the field with associations / organizations and / or committees = the boiler technology and / or legislative committee structure of the BCSA criteria. This should be similar to the college of teachers who have a similar certification retention program. Costs should be a sliding scale dependent on status.

Power Engineer Yes Access to courses or educational materials that allows each individual to earn continuing education (CE) credits towards renewing their certificate.

Power Engineer Yes Currently employed in Alberta where certificates are renewed and it is not an issue. I don't see the need to charge a fee though.

Page 86: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

PROPOSAL TO REQUIRE PLANT OWNERS TO REGISTER CONFIGURATION

Question: Do you agree with the proposal that requires plant owners to register their configuration with BC Safety Authority?

[Yes/No]

Group Representation Position Comments

Power Engineer Yes This would be a great tool for all stake holders!

Power Engineer Yes It would be a better system than we currently have and align with what some of the other provinces are doing.

Power Engineer No Disagree. Merging pressure vessels with a Plant structure may induce confusion re individual systems.

Power Engineer Yes

Power Engineer Yes It would help to make it more difficult for business to de-regulate plants by replacing existing equipment with machinery configuration designed to skirt rules on heating surface, operating pressure, etc.. I have been a Power Engineer most of my working career. In the last 25 years, I have seen the wages for firefighter go from being paid the same as a 3rd class Power Engineer to being paid half that of the same full time firefighter. In my opinion, for the amount of investment in time and money, Power Engineering does not give good value for the education dollar. There is no real system in place to "earn while you learn". Through a combination of corporate greed, indifferance, and disrespect for our trade, it has been cheapened to a "secondary trade" status. When a new 4th Class graduate gets his/her qualification, most of the jobs available are low-wage janitorial, ice rink, or shopping mall "maintenance Joe" positions. This is an insult for those who have worked so hard to get that qualificaton. This same hiring practice precludes the possibility of getting "firing time", as most of these facilities either have no real boilers, or are in the process of getting rid of them. Almost every Power Engineer that I know, including myself, has another Red Seal qualification. Unfortunately, the Power Engineering qualification is secondary to the day-to-day realities of my job, and is generally not capable of standing on it's own as a qualification for a decent job. Unlike other trades, Power

Page 87: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Engineers are subject to the whims of industry, as it is not something you can "freelance" as is plumbimng, electrical, machinist/millwright etc..As such, It has been hard to garner any respect from people who think we just sit around, watching gauges. Hmmm, he can be a janitor too. There is too little understanding of the "General Practitioner" aspect of our job. We have to know, and employ a lot of cross-trade talents. This behind-the-scenes work goes largely unnoticed because we are professionals, and always strive to do our work with the least possible inconvenience and disruption.People don't notice when things are running smoothly.

Power Engineer Yes Yes so that it guides them if the configuration was proper but depends on kinds of unit

Power Engineer Yes This would help future workers research their job. Thus being a safer employee.

Power Engineer Yes This will help ensure all plants that need to have power engineers will be tracked and forced to comply with the current regulations regarding power engineers

Power Engineer Yes Plain and simple safety. My plant is a class 1 plant yet BCSA has not enforced shift engineer qualifications we have class 4 operators working as shift engineers. How can you hope to bring in and qualify foreign operators when you can not keep our own plants compliant. Thank you for the chance to speak up.

Power Engineer Yes Most smaller plants receive yearly renewed certification but are seldom inspected

Provincial Regulator Employee

Yes […] I constantly get enquires from power engineer about classification of their plant. This will provide clarity and remove any confusion among power engineers.

Power Engineer No I don't see the benefit for the on-site power engineers.

Power Engineer Yes I feel that an overall view of the plant's installed equipment is the best place to start for making a decision in terms of plant classification. There are some installations that currently skirt the requirements for Power Engineers by virtue of having many small boilers/pressure vessels/refrigeration equipment that do not require a qualified operator. If the proposed action doesn't result in de-rating plants, then it should be pursued.

Page 88: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Power Engineer Yes I was particularly interested in how staffing requirements would be outlined for the plant owners. I read in your literature that one of the barriers to progression is lack of jobs. I don't believe there are a lack of jobs. I believe that the jobs are out there but the employers aren't demanding that their staff be trained to the appropriate level of power engineering. BCSA needs to have some teeth and audit these companies to ensure the staff of employers are qualified. Fines need to be handed out if companies aren't in compliance. The plant that I work at is a 3rd class plant […]. Out of the 4 operators at the plant, I am the only one that has any type of Power Engineering accreditation. Also, I only have my 4th. I'm working of my 3rd but technically, I don't even have the qualifications. For years the plant ran without anyone being certified. I did a little work for [another company] recently. About half the plant operators were certified there. Progress was trying to do it right though. They had given the rest of the operators a mandate to get their 4th done. I was recently talking to someone from [another company] who told me that all their operators are Power Engineers. So some companies are attempting to do things right and others don't care and are simply crossing their fingers that they don't get called on it. In either case, I think that the companies know that no one is going to audit them anyways. My coworkers have all said they want to get their Power Engineering but no one has actually started it because there's really no concequence to not having it. I realize that it might be hard to send inspectors out to all these plants right away but at minimum, a letter should be sent to all energy producers in the province reminding them of the rules and explaining how they must be in compliance. This should be followed by audits by the BCSA when able. I was recently talking to the manager of an oil and gas recruiting company in Fort St John. He said that of all the requests for operators that he gets, about 1 in 10 requests are for a 4th class. For third class he said the ratio is 1 in 50. Employers just don't demand it because they know they can get away with not having it. If employers were forced to follow the rules, you would have a huge amount of employers looking to fill spots. All of a sudden all those Power Engineers complaining about not finding work would start seeing requests pop up. You would also weed out some

Page 89: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

of the more unprofessional and, quite often, dangerous people working in the industry. This is something that needs to happen.

Power Engineer Yes Streamlining the registration process from individual pressure vessels into a full plant will save both plant owners and the BCSA time and money. Having a BCSA-approved list containing equipment serial numbers, ages, and recommended service lives would be quite useful for engineers.

Power Engineer Yes this will make things easier to know what kind of plants my employers have. ive been having a hard time looking for firing time. Before i acquired my job. ive made several calls to bc safety asking what kind of plant my future job has. They did not have a clear answer. ive asked my employer or the interviewee and he did not know. i currently have written all my exams and im trying to find a place to give me firing time for my 3rd but its hard because nobody knows what kind of plant they have. it would be nice if i can call bc safety authority and the answers given to me so i can pursue the job or not. getting hired then finding out its not qualified for firing time is a disappointment and waste of time. for both me and the employer

Power Engineer Yes In my plant these information are not available to us. One of the rules state that when a chief engineer is away the 2nd is responsible. with the size of my refinery, our tickets are being used to cover boilers and pressure vessels that are too far to manage. Rules need to be more enforced and detail on amount of boilers or pressure vessel and distance. Rules and regulations need to be enforced. Safety Authority needs to be more on top of things and enforce the laws you teach and preach.

Power Engineer Yes Makes sense.

4th Class Power Engineering Studnet

Yes Safety is important, if this is effective and safe why not. Although it might cause headaches hopefully it becomes seamless and easier once used often.

Power Engineer Yes Yes, it has worked very well for other jurisdictions

Power Engineering Studnet No This is to much of a headache. Everybody operating at their plant has the sufficient knowledge as a Power Engineers and is trained on site to know the configuration. Also this is not needed.

Page 90: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Power Engineer Yes I think that some plant owners need to be more aware of what their plant requires as far as qualified power engineers go to run the plant properly.

Power Engineer Yes Some companies in the patch will lay out a series of hot oil heater trains, calling each of them individual plants in order to ensure that they don't have to hire power engineers. If the total heating surface was considered there would be more engineers at work and a better safety culture.

Power Engineer Yes Would help with assessments of individual candidates.

Power Engineer Yes Would be nice to ask ABSA and BCSA where one could get a steam time toward 3d class.

Power Engineer Yes Obviously.

Power Engineer Yes Acquiring firing time can be one of the most difficult parts of progressing to the next level of certification. Plant classification is only currently known by word of mouth or physically going to a plant. This can be a large challenge if looking to move to a new area. An open/searchable plant registry would allow PEs to know the plants to research within an area that are suitable for their classification of interest. Some provinces have started implementing this but aren't complete, that I'm aware of. It is a very necessary and overdue utility, in my opinion. It would help to make it more difficult for business to deregulate plants by replacing existing equipment with machinery configuration designed to skirt rules on heating surface, operating pressure, etc..

Power Engineer Yes If the boilers are feeding a common header, then this needs to be evaluated

Power Engineer Yes Yes, At present it is difficult for BCSA to determine required staffing. New to plant and jurisdiction so not fully up to date on proedures and or processes of plant regulation.

Power Engineer Yes Yes, because this would confirm the classification and staff required. I see companies that advertise for a certain class but their plant is actually a classification lower. I see many companies that advertise for a certain classification of PE and then have a large part of your work duties performing tasks that are not related to Power Engineering and then associating your wage with these duties and no the Power Engineering. These companies are taking advantage of

Page 91: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

the PE certification. This type of activity makes these types of jobs unattractive and you call it a PE shortage. Only that the plants advertise for their exact plant classification when requiring additional staffing

Power Engineer Yes This seems very logical. In fact I assumed something like this was already being done by BCSA. Seems like a good idea, especially if the info was public, where folks looking for steam time could really have a roadmap for knocking on doors.

Power Engineer Yes Safety reasons

Power Engineer Yes It will reduce confusion when dealing with BSOs. Especially for plants with multiple boilers of different classes. Eliminate the ASA program. It only benefits companies, not workers. There is usually difficulty in getting firing time and the level of training and competency is low. This increases the risk of a serious problem and having no one really capable of averting or dealing with it on the payroll. I manage 2 3rd class plants that are registered under the ASA which made it almost impossible to get permission to advance to 3rd class (I'm a 4th currently). Likewise, none of the operators are required to have even a 5th class and can't progress beyond 4th even though the equipment is exactly the same as it would be if under prescriptive. This contributes to the shortage of power engineers in the long term, it does not provide a solution.

Power Engineer No There needs to be something done to clarify plant registrations. It should be easier for companies to know exactly how they will be ranked before construction. It should be clear cut. I'm not sure if this proposal will make this problem better or worse. Please advise with industry producers and professionals before implementing and a grace period needs to be built in. Please take the time to do this right so we don't waste more time and money with these changes.

Power Engineer Yes Simplification of plant classification would be great.

Power Engineer Yes It would simplify requirments for staffing.

Power Engineer Yes Makes sense to have all equipment managed as a whole to arrive at a proper classification.

Power Engineer No another cash grab.

Power Engineer No I work in a 1st class plant, and I know that the configuration of a 1st class plant can be very different. Plant registration will help regulators

Page 92: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

better manage the safety of the industry and the public. We all know that there are lots of mistakes in the PanGlobal power engineering books, but still those books are, by far, the single major source of the exam questions. That creates a lot of problems, such as low quality questions, questions with wrong answers. I suggest examiners shift the emphasize from the single resource to a more comprehensive set of resources, such as Reeds series, B&W Steam Generators, etc. Thanks for your consideration.

Power Engineer No Yes, I have worked in plants that were clearly above the requirements that should have been operated my a power engineer but because they did not register the plant, they were allowed to hire non-power engineers to run it. Can you check the plant size and requirement for the [a company] in fort nelson BC. They have had a number of plant operators that clearly have little no experience to operate those plants. They have 1 maybe 2 supervisors that may have their 4th class ticket but non that operator their larger plants. They have 7 plants and 3 of them are very large for an unqualified operator to run.

Power Engineer Yes With the BCSA having a detailed configuration on file should assist with deturmaning proper staffing and certification levels.

Power Engineer Yes I believe in Proper Paperwork. I am a strong believer in a PM schedule maintained, documented and signed. I believe in not staying comfortable with old. I believe that change is a welcome factor. Lets adapt.

Power Engineer Yes they should already. we do

Power Engineer Yes Yes registered plans is good. Refrence to electronic records for all bodies.

Power Engineer Yes I agree with all of the reasons put forward for this change.

Multi ticketed trades person, power engineer trainee

No The current short falls in this industry are in regards to training, not registration. Plant information is gained continually with upgrades and changes

Retired/ semi retired Yes getting competent operators is an issue. Some plants will try to train operators walking in the door with no qualifications

Power Engineer Yes I agree it makes things simpler.

Fourth class working on third Yes Strictly for safety purposes :)

Power Engineer Yes I have not experienced a lot of support from the SA on keeping plant registration up to date

Page 93: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Power Engineer Yes A database of employers that have violated BCSA rules and safety regulations that employees and the general public can view.

Power Engineer Yes BCSA should, on there own accord, register each plant configuration, and not leave it up to the plant owners. From a safety stand point, BCSA is more experienced with governing regulations pertaining to power vessels. (and are more trust worthy too) Each plant's blueprints and equipment configuration would help with any future investigations and BCSA should play a more integral role with the registration process. Does Alberta register there plant configurations? If yes, how can we adapt their procedures here in BC?

Power Engineer Yes we all know the danger and must be sure no corners are cut. i will keep my certificate current just in case, i am [nearing retirement age]

Power Engineer No They are not confused they are trying to create problems where non exist. I believe that if industry received fines for regulation avoidance things would go much more smoothly. I believe that if something isn't broken it doesn't need to need to be fixed. The present system has worked for a very long time and change for the sake of change is not in the best interest of safety.

Power Engineer Yes This simplifies the classification process. Also need to ensure plants are sending BCSA configuration of positions in the plant (number names, and Reg No. of employees)

Power Engineer Yes Unless this is being used to cut the number of qualified power engineers required by the plant.

Power Engineer Yes The Kilowatt method for determining boiler output is very straightforward for those of us who are new to the profession. However once boilers not currently in service are included and refrigeration it is much more complicated. I feel that this system would reduce confusion and improve safety.

Power Engineer Yes This would ensure plant owners must keep all units of their plants in compliance. Need more inspectors to provide oversight. Currently visits are bi-annual which is not acceptable in my opinion.

Power Engineer Yes It's obvious but why has BCSA allowed for the reduction in plant requirements in the first place. To actually have an inspector visit the plant and not rely on contractors to do so...

Page 94: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Power Engineer Yes Oil and gas pressure vessels and indirect fired heaters should be included in 2nd class firing time . {I was told this is why I can not get second class firing time}

Power Engineer Yes Safety! At a minimum registration provides an inventory of PV. From there every other aspect of regulation flows. If BCSA doesn't know what's out there then what purpose do they serve? […] More for chief than shift engineeri

Power Engineer Yes Currently plant classification is very subjective with respect to granting firing time. If plants were classified and it was designated what positions qualified for what firing time as chief engineers change. It could also simplify the registration of the equipment make up of the plant its self.

Power Engineer Yes Plant sizes and configurations should be known and categorized for staffing requirements and for prospective employee's information.

Power Engineer No Makes sense for safety

Power Engineer No This speaks volumes as to the lack of qualification within the BCSA. You have all this information already, now you need it laid out so you can understand how it all works?

Power Engineer Yes Anything to improve safety, reliability and integrity of boilers in this province is a good thing.

Power Engineer Yes All our equipment is on a computerized PM system which generates task schedules

I am the respresentative of an organization/association that represents companies who employ power engineers

Yes An approved drawing / configuration should be mandatory.

I am the respresentative of an organization/association that represents companies who employ power engineers

No again this is just another revenue maker for the authority

Power Engineer Yes Keep it simple.

Power Engineer Yes Good idea there is a lot of confusion on this . Also needs to take in to account all other aspects in the plants .There should be some criteria on pressure vessels for plant classification . Ex a wood treating cyl

Page 95: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

that is 120' long and gets pressured up to 120 psi does not have any bearing on the plant classification as far as I know .

Power Engineer Yes Because plant owners and designers or consultants are in a better position to ask for registration.

Power Engineer Yes Plant Registration would simplify the exam application process and give the BCSA insight into each plant. The registration process must be done by competent individuals who are allotted an effective amount of time to thoroughly review the plant and its associated process. Yearly audits should be completed to ensure accuracy of the assessment versus changes to the existing plant structure. There should be no link made between Power Engineer certification and the Plant Registry. The BCSA should not be tracking who is working where as that data should be private. If done correctly and maintained by both industry and the BCSA the plant registry would allow the regulations to be rewritten to remove the need for annual operating permits for individual equipment. - This would minimize the administrative burden placed on the local Safety Officers and the BCSA call centre.

I am employed as a Facility Tradesperson

Yes This ensure that proper safety procedure are in place and qualified personnel are operating the equipment.

Power Engineer Yes Use ABSA as a reference.

Power Engineer No I agree with streamlining, but this seems to be a means of passing the buck from the Safety Authority managing and being responsible for these vessels to having the owners regulate their own equipment. Currently, owners are struggling to even find reliable, honest and ethical employees let alone employees who can set a process such as what is proposed up. The feel is that we are leaning towards plant de-classification, de-regulation, simplifying acquiring qualified? personnel & shifting responsibility and expenses onto plant owners. Why don't we put more emphasis on training our own people properly, raise the bar of professionalism, make it more cost effective to become a Power Engineer. Reward the good ones and penalize the bad ones. Fill the Schools and Colleges at night, not just during the day. Why are the big companies paying huge $$ to Head Hunters to bring in foreign workers when they could invest in our own education system? Invest in cutting edge equipment & more

Page 96: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

teachers for the Universities and Colleges. Pay these people what they are worth..... maybe then it will be easier to find qualified teachers and not lose the good ones to high paying industry.

Power Engineer Yes Policing of requirements would be assisted by such a point. I feel that I am a rarity knowing all this information. Most places know nothing of their requirements, especially their Manning requirements.I feel that the BCSA should be more of a policing entity as many inconsistencies exist that are unfair to those that follow the regulations.

I am an instructor who teaches power engineering courses

Yes ACI has a subcommittee working on a set of recommendations for plant classifications, if we are changing our system we should adopt their recommendations.

Power Engineer Yes I like this idea. currently i'm studying for my third class. I don't know if i am able to get my steam time at the plant i'm currently at. Therefore I am unable to get my third class ticket. i have found this frustrating because i have found plant designation to be unclear.

Power Engineer Yes The current system should not create confusion among plant owners, if it does, then maybe that requires further investigation by BCSA as to why proper methodology and safety oversight was not followed. I do agree that receiving stacks of operating permits for multiple pressure vessels is burdensome and time consuming, and should be streamlined, but not for some of the reasons cited. In a new plant, you have the ability to very easily track whatever information you like from the onset. In older facilities, the tracking potential exists, but can be much more time consuming to set up initially, due to missing/incomplete records and inaccurate P&IDs

Power Engineer No response They already should be registered. This is why Power engineers are legislated to work in steam plants. The BCSA should know all of this. Did a 5 year old make up this survey. This question is absolutely redundant. When creating surveys in the future try to use someone that actually knows what the BCSA does. Has background knowledge of power engineering. This survey holds no ground for the proposed changes.

Power Engineer Yes Makes more sense and efficiency to accredit the whole plant at one time.

Page 97: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Power Engineer No I essential agree that Plant registration is a good option. although its likely a lot of work to get this done. Again, this is the responsibility of the authority, and the cost and work load associated with doing this work rests with them, not the building or manufacturer. If you want to steam line your system, you need to get the resources and money from the government. The safety authority should already have the data on the vessels for our site. So you should already be able to compile the data for a plant. If not, you are more than welcome to send out an inspector to conduct an audit.

Power Engineer No I have to say that I am a little confused about what BCSA is proposing here. BCSA has assigned a plant classification to every plant, based on the individual boilers &/or PV's it contains. I am actually ambivalent towards this proposal, other than the fact that there isn't enough information given to understand what you are proposing to change, especially as it may pertain to plant classification. As a Manager at my facility, I would be, and am, concerned about the potential for re-classification and the attendant impact to my plant and its PE's. I don't think you are providing enough information for informed decision making.

None of the above Yes All industrial plants has an obligation to the community they work in to be regulated and safe

Power Engineer Yes More registration leads to a more clear plant classification system and safer jobs for operations personnel.

Power Engineer Yes All plants should be registered. Attempts to lower certification levels should be disallowed. Current Plant is currently under construction.

Power Engineer Yes I don't have much experience on this issue, I can't really make an educated decision

Power Engineer Yes Long overdue. Refrigeration plants are reauired to be registered, but not boiler plants.

Power Engineer No All pressure vessels now have to have permits.That is enough. The B.C. Safety Authority is not keeping up with its responsibuilitys now adding more things to review to the process is just going to make things more unwieldy,and time devouring than it already is. Businesses need to get on with doing business not spending more time and energy dealing with The Safety Authoritys endless demands You Don't need this information .And the excessive cost associated

Page 98: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

with supplying this information companys don't need. We have a job to do and this would require the cost of engineers plus are time dealing with engineers to get the information correct and this means we're not dealing with the things we need to do.

Power Engineer Yes Staffing requirements need to be clear for everyone.

Power Engineer No We already have a system in place in the Code Books. If there is confusion on plant classification and staffing requirements they are clearly not capable of doing the job and do not know how to read a code book. This is taught at the fourth class level. The fact that there is concern here really is quite concerning to me as a Power Engineer that people are running plants or the BCSA and making decisions that do not have a basic grasp of this. This is not an meant to be an insult. I am stating a personal opinion that is very worrisome. And we want to bring in foreign workers that will compound this problem or are we dumming down the system and my trade for the sake of employers? If we have plant Owners ,and their Chiefs of these plants that do not know the basic fundamentals of plant designation and staffing requirements and the BCSA knows this and has not down graded these certifications of said individuals then something is very wrong. These people are making day to day decisions that are affecting the safety of the people, the environment and the livelihood of communities. How these people still have jobs and the BCSA is stating they have a known problem is negligent at best. The dumming down of my trade system to cover for incompetence is not how I was raised and is a mockery of great engineers before me at work and in the BCSA. Engineers strive for excellence, this just makes us look bad upon the other Engineering groups. I have tried very hard to submit my opinions in a professional manner. I will say as my final note that I am very concerned with the direction we are going based on this survey and the information I have read over.

I am a First Class Motor Marine Engineer

Yes Easier to monitor employee's operating time.

Power Engineer Yes Different configurations can result in safety and efficiency issues. As a means of preventing incidents from happening this information should be shared.

Page 99: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Power Engineer Yes In the last round -bcsa basically dumbed down the plant capacities by allowing owners to have many individual small systems ( many small capacity boilers / chillers on separated systems within the same facility) resulting in not requiring power engineers with higher certification for total plant capacity. This resulted in many plants only requiring a 5th class engineer instead of a fourth when it use to be total plant capacity under one facility.

Power Engineer Yes Safety and adherence to correct engineering and regulations

Power Engineer Yes Refrigeration Plants in BC are already classified as Plants with a list of all pressure equipment. Power and Heating Plants should likewise be classified by Plant registration.

Power Engineer No I don't have as much of a problem with this question as I do with the previous two questions. However, I do believe that the Power Engineering training we get is sufficient to provide safety oversight, a correct understanding of the plant classification and the resulting staffing requirements under the act.

Maintenance Manager of a hotel with several Boilers/Pressure vessels

Yes I think this will afford BCSA the ability to see how systems are integrated and ensure that all the parts of a plant are suitable to provide the service they were intended for. In a perfect world, the old building operators certificate would come back. while I am not the one working on the equipment in my building, I use properly qualified and certified contractors, it would be nice to have a certificate that shows the level of my education and experience.

I am a power engineer and also an owner of multiple plants that employ over 75 power engineers

Yes This has been a failing aspect of the system for years and in reality it is already there but the BCSA and predecessor Boiler branch record keeping has failed the industry. Simply put you should already be doing this. As a Power Engineer, Former Chief Engineer and now multi site plant owner with over 25 years experience in BC I find it interesting that BCSA feels it does not track Plant sizing? I think most others feel that you did and should and maybe simply stopped doing something you used to do. Simply put how can you determine the requirement for staffing in a plant if you have not been keeping track of the plant sizing and configuration? When the Boiler Inspector used to come out to inspect my plant he was fully aware and cognizant of the size and configuration of my plant.

Page 100: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Part of the Engineering team with the provincial oil and gas regulator

Yes This information is valuable for employers, the governing bodies and people seeking employment.

Power engineer Yes This is a BCSA problem that they should have fixed a long time ago. We have six boilers and about 40 to 50 pressure vessels. I am sure that some of the pressure vessels have slipped though the cracks and are not properly registered.

Power engineer Yes there is also confusion and inconsistency in how plants are rated across different provinces

Power Engineer No I don't have as much of a problem with this question as I do with the previous two questions. However, I do believe that the Power Engineering training we get is sufficient to provide safety oversight, a correct understanding of the plant classification and the resulting staffing requirements under the act.

Power Engineer Yes However, I would be concerned about additional regulatory complexity. I think a better place to start is to simply mine the data already in place more effectively. In my mind BCSA has not shown itself to be proficient with data management regarding registration and tracking of operating units and pressure vessels. Having this process increased in size and complexity is a concern for me.

Immigrant Engineer holding foreign (UK) credentials

Yes Systems / plants should be risk assessed and certified as a whole as each component is closely interlinked.

I am an instructor who teaches power engineering courses

Yes Information gained from the configuration are useful for the purpose of developing better risk management system and better understanding power engineers practical experience

Power Engineer Yes This would help solidify the overall safety for the plant workers and ensure that plants are properly staffed.

I am the owner/operator of a plant that employs power engineers

No Adding plant registration would appear to increase Government involvement with industry, which would both increase cost for industry and bureaucracy for the BCSA.

Power Engineer Yes The specifications of which class of power engineer goes with which plant should be changed for the lower main land. As heatpump sources are being used more and more the large chiller units and boilers are not being installed and the ticket is worth less and less while being able to get good experience is hard for new people. I think multiple chiller units working in tandum should qualify the power

Page 101: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

engineer just the same as a singular chilling unit with the same capacity.

Power Engineer Yes BCSA should know about each boiler and the manning of the plants. we need to audit the plants more often to ensure the safety of equipment is being maintained and operated properly

1st class Yes plant should be registered with the rating of the power plant

Power Engineer Yes it is called order and organization otherwise, you get incompetence throughout the plant , which becomes organized confusion, all building codes need to be adhered to and met, including the vessels,Welding, process piping , and proper valves for pressures. please do not let us not bring our Plants down to third world standards for the bottom line. plant is currently forced to shut down, pending a air quality review from [the municipality].

Power Engineer Yes Well, as you stated "creates inefficiencies in providing safety oversight as well as creates confusion among plant owners as to their plant classification and subsequent staffing requirements under the Safety Standards Act." Quite simply the profit driven contractors such as [specific contractor] and their minions do not have the best interest of plant owners at heart. Therefore a knowlegeable proof reading of a plants configureation would save industy millions of dollars down the road. This of course would include additional savings by pointing out alarm and other safety based systems that could potentially reduce their regulated manpower requirements. With respect to the act, what is written clearly in the safety act is always the subject of interpretation. In that regard nothing is ever clear. When speaking to the BC Safey Authority of concerns you will all too often hear things like "it's up to your chief" or "whatever the regional boiler inspector says". It's always up to interpretation and the afforded wiggle room granted until an accident occurs. We have boilers that operate with dysfunctional O2 sensors and no gas fitter gas analysis for a year. We have thermal plants that shut down via trips at high fire and the primary pumps stop flowing. But then again these are not new configuration issues, these are simply potential accidents that go unmitigated do to relaxed supervision and inability for power engineers to anonymously report issues without reprise and support of the BC Safety Authority.

Page 102: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

Power Engineer No The question is vague and open to interpretation. If the sole intent is to create greater effeceny to provide improved safety oversight then plant registration changes are supported. That said I have concern that this has been promoted by industrial owners with the underlying agenda to consolidate equipment with a hidden agenda of reducing certification/manpower requirments. I've experienced similar regulary changes in the past and once put in print a job eliminated with operational, safety, and housekeeping standards grossly eroded as a result. The question then becomes; has plant registration changes as outlined been promoted by industrial owners, will this result in an erosion of current standards, and create an avenue that allow owners to eliminated power engineering staff? Our plant was recently reclassified from 1st to 2nd. Subsequently manpower was reduced to 2 from 4 per shift and questioned this being compliant. Also control room was move away from the boilers and am no longer in the direct vicinity to readily respond to an issue as a shift engineer. One person is stuck in the control room while the other has a large geographical area to cover further hindering ability to respond to an issue that may be critical in nature. In addition also EOCP certified and responsible for potable water plant operation....... Not wanting to give you a life story, just wanted to point out that industry either no longer takes their obligations under the BCSA and legislative requirements seriously, or changes have been made by the BCSA that have allowed industry to manage in such a manner. A manner which today has grossly eroded standards, operation, and safety. I truly hope this is not the norm out there today, and I say this with 27 years of experience in multiple plants as a power engineer. When systems are registered is there a review of those systems, changes to the operations that result, the equipment and vessels operators are responsible for (overall)... and that required manpower is provided to operate and maintain systems safely, effectively, and efficiently?

Power Engineer Yes There needs to be a common standard that is open to compare standards to. Apply a common code and standard across Canada.

Power Engineer Yes I thought plant had to do this already anyway

Power Engineer Yes My understanding is this is in addition to the current requirements and would therefore put the equipment in the database in context with

Page 103: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

plant classification. We could then compare first class plants, second class plants, etc. Initially, it takes a long time to put together information on equipment. Once it is collected, maintaining the database is not that time-consuming.

Provincial Regulatory Authority

Yes I think this is an excellent idea. Also, once there is a change in plant classification and/or in operating engineers, BCSA must be informed immediately. Every prescriptive and ASA site should maintain up to date inventory of the site equipment. This must be updated every 3 months with BC Safety Authority. All decommissioned/disposed off equipment must be declared and every new unit added must be declared for assessment.

Power Engineer Yes This would simplify the renewal process. My only concern is that the next step would be registering similar plants as one. This I would be very against.

Power Engineer Yes It is an improvement of the current setup by addressing safety and right staffing requirements.

Power Engineer Yes There should be no confusion when it comes to plant classification.

Power Engineer Yes I would receive on a yearly basis, documents from BCSA that pertained to vessels long since out of service or at the wrong address. Every year I would send them back with the correct info and nothing would change.

Page 104: BC SAFETY AUTHORITY POWER ENGINEERING CONSULTATION … · BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm) my opinion. I have Five

BC Safety Authority Power Engineering Consultation 2016 Comments (as at August 13, 2016 at 11:59pm)

OTHER

Group Representation Position Comments

Power Engineer Question Is there empirical evidence to support the long-term demand (shortage) of Power Engineers?

Received via email Suggestion Hi: I feel that the BCSA should lower the passing mark to become an RO from 65% to 60%. The same was done in the forest industry for log scalers. I think this would help out in the smaller communities such as ours where there is a low resource pool. I also feel that the multiple choice questions should be ABCD instead of ABCDE. There`s no point in adding confusion to the question. Make one obvious answer instead of 3 answers that are so close you`re making the guy second guess himself.