Well, If We’ve Really Gotta Drop A Few More NamesTo Hook You, How About—

KIRBY! DITKO! ROMITA! BUSCEMA! COLAN! HECK! AYERS! KANE! SEVERIN! TRIMPE!TUSKA! WOOD! MANEELY! SHORES! EVERETT! BURGOS! (There! That Oughtta Hold Ya!)

$6.95In the USA

No. 74December

2007

Characters TM & ©2007 Marvel Characters, Inc.

Well, If We’ve Really Gotta Drop A Few More NamesTo Hook You, How About—

KIRBY! DITKO! ROMITA! BUSCEMA! COLAN! HECK! AYERS! KANE! SEVERIN! TRIMPE!TUSKA! WOOD! MANEELY! SHORES! EVERETT! BURGOS! (There! That Oughtta Hold Ya!)

’Nuff Said?

STANLEESTANLEE

PLUS:

Roy Thomas’ STANdardComics Fanzine

Alter EgoTM is published 8 times a year by TwoMorrows, 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, NC 27614, USA. Phone: (919) 449-0344. Roy Thomas, Editor. John Morrow, Publisher. Alter Ego Editorial Offices: 32 Bluebird Trail, St. Matthews, SC 29135, USA. Fax: (803) 826-6501; e-mail: roydann@ntinet.com. Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial offices. Single issues: $9 US ($11.00 Canada, $16 elsewhere). Twelve-issue subscriptions: $78 US, $132 Canada, $180 elsewhere. All charactersare © their respective companies. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter © Roy Thomas. Alter Ego is a TM of Roy & Dann Thomas. FCA is a TM of P.C. Hamerlinck. Printed in Canada. ISSN: 1932-6890

FIRST PRINTING.

Writer/Editorial: He’s “The Man”!. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2Stan Lee Meets [Castle Of] Frankenstein . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5Ted White introduces his important 1968 interview with Marvel’s head honcho.

The New Super-Hero (Is A Pretty Kinky Guy) . . . . . . . . . . . 161968 Lee interview from the pages of Eye Magazine, conducted by Norman Mark.

Stan Lee, The Marvel Bard . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 26A 1970 talk—Smiling Stan and marveling Mike Bourne.

Stan Lee: 1974. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 36Jay Maeder’s classic conversation with Marvel’s master from Comics Feature.

Marvel Characters Meet Their Maker! . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 47The comic book cameos of Stan Lee, compiled by Jerry K. Boyd.

Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt! Twice-Told Marvel Heroes(Part Two) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 55Michael T. Gilbert and Will Murray on the pre-Marvel Iron Man and Thor.

“Once [Stan Lee] Put Me On Staff...” . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 65Jim Amash talks to Golden Age artist Pete Tumlinson.

FCA (Fawcett Collectors Of America) #133 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 73Marc Swayze’s Judi of the Jungle & John G. Pierce on Captain Marvel’s Christmas.

On Our Cover: There simply was no other choice for the cover artist of this issue celebratingStan Lee’s 85th birthday! Jack Kirby was Marvel’s major artist (and artistic influence) fromFantastic Four #1 in 1961 until he split in 1970—and he was vitally important to Marvel bothin 1940-41 and when he returned in the mid-’70s, to boot! This art was prepared on behalf ofToys for Tots, a charity Marvel supported every Christmas season for some years. With thanksto John Morrow and the Jack & Roz Kirby Estate. [©2007 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Above: The legacy of Lee and Kirby was alive and well in the 1970s and early ’80s, which isprobably when Marvel artist Ron Wilson penciled this powerful drawing—quite possibly for aMarvel-UK cover. Sorry a bit of it was missing from our photocopy, but we still think it’s great!Thanks to Anthony Snyder. [The Thing & Absorbing Man TM & ©2007 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Vol. 3, No. 74 / December 2007EditorRoy Thomas

Associate EditorsBill SchellyJim Amash

Design & LayoutChristopher Day

Consulting EditorJohn Morrow

FCA EditorP.C. Hamerlinck

Comic Crypt EditorMichael T. Gilbert

Editorial Honor RollJerry G. Bails (founder)Ronn Foss, Biljo WhiteMike Friedrich

Production AssistantChris Irving

Circulation DirectorBob Brodsky, CookieSoup Periodical Distribution, LLC

Cover ArtistJack Kirby

Cover ColoristTom Ziuko

With Special Thanks to:Gerry AcernoHeidi AmashGer ApeldoornDick AyersBob BaileyAllen BellmanJon BerkAl BigleyDominic BongoMike BourneJerry K. BoydSusan BurgosMike BurkeyLeslie CabargaNigel CartwellGene ColanRich DonnellyDanny FingerothShane FoleyRon FrenzChris FrickeJanet GilbertRon GoulartMike GrellArnie GrievesJennifer HamerlinckDavid G. HamiltonRichard HowellGeof IsherwoodJay KinneyThe Jack Kirby

EstateRobert KleinDavid Anthony KraftStan & Joan

& Joan Cecilia LeeDominique LéonardJay Maeder

Michel MaillotNancy ManeelyDon MangusMike ManleyNorman MarkJim McLauchlinDr. Jeff McLaughlinJean-Yves MittonBrian K. MorrisFrank MotlerWill MurraySteve OgdenBarry PearlJohn G. PierceRubén ProcopioRichard PryorJohn RomitaMarie SeverinJoe SimonJoe SinnottPaul SmithAnthony SnyderFrank SpringerMarc SwayzeStan TaylorGreg TheakstonArt ThibertDann ThomasHerb TrimpePete TumlinsonGeorge TuskaJim Vadeboncoeur, Jr.Dr. Michael J.

VassalloMike WellmanTed WhiteMike Zeck

Stan Lee’s 85th Birthday Special!

Contents

ou’d think that, for me, a guy who’s worked for him and/or withhim for much of the past four decades, putting together an 85th-birthday tribute to Stan Lee would be as easy as falling of a log.

Wrong, Inedible Bulk-breath!

I have every bit as much of a problem doing a “Stan Lee issue” of amagazine as any other editor might, and for the same reason: Stan hasbeen endlessly interviewed over the past several decades—and he tendsto answer the same questions with similar words andphrases. (And how could he not? Unless you’remaking up new “facts” as you go along, there areonly so many ways you can spin what is basicallythe same story. It’s really the fault of the inter-viewers, who keep asking the same questionsover and over—but, of course, for the most partthey’re merely asking the queries they feel theirreaders will want to know the answers to. It’sonly us jaded “experts” on things comic-booky—and that includes a goodlypercentage of those reading these words—who sigh and say to ourselves, “We’veheard all this before!”)

I’ll admit—for just a little whilethere, I dared hope I might be able to geta fresh new interview out of Stan. Afterall, a number of folks had told me they felt I’dbeen able to elicit some previously unknowninformation when we had the conversationrecorded in Jon B. Cooke’s Comic Book Artist(Vol. 1) #2 way back at the turn of this century. ButI’d pretty much shot my wad on that one—so mynew idea (well, actually, it was A/E associate editor JimAmash’s notion) was to do a Stan Lee interview thatwasn’t about Stan Lee. I would ask him about all thewriters and artists and editors and such-like thathe’s worked with over the years, and see if Icould mine a few anecdotal nuggets that way.Sure, Stan’s memory is famously just this side of amental sieve, but with a bit of nudging, I mighthave been able to come up with a few rawdiamonds.

Stan, however, just didn’t feel he coulddevote time or energy to such a project,either over the phone or via e-mail. Sothat was that.

Somewhere along the line, Ialso learned that ourTwoMorrows sister publicationWrite Now! was going to do itsown Stan Lee issue, in honor ofthat selfsame 85th birthday—which fallson Dec. 28, 2007, just forthe record. Now, you’dthink that would seem likecompetition—but, in pointof fact, it was a welcomerelief! Editor DannyFingeroth had already

planned to get tributes from the usual suspects (and probably a fewunexpected folks, as well)… the John Romitas and Joe Quesadas of theworld… and to print a lot of rare stuff from the Stan Lee Archives,now safely stored at the University of Wyoming. So I decided toconcentrate on a handful of previously published (but still hopefullyrare) interviews with the Smiling One, and add a few anecdotes where Icould in the captions.

Now, right before you plunge into Interview-Land (whoselandscape will be lovingly littered, of course, with exciting and oftenrare artwork by the greats and near-greats of Timely, Atlas, and

Marvel), here’s a short piece which I myself wrote in 1968, aboutthree years after I came to work for Stan. It was scribbled hurriedly(overnight, I seem to recall) for the program book of the SCARP-Con convention… and I felt thrilled and honored to be the guyasked to write it. It’s called, logically enough:

Stan Leeby Roy Thomas

What is a Stan Lee?

Many things… not a few of themparadoxical, if not downright contra-

dictory.

An editor much given to belit-tling his own editing skills... but who can deftly improve a

Shakespearian turn-of-phrasewritten by an ex-English instructor,

a couple of sometime journalists,and an experienced movie scripter…

among others.

A writer who has long since disavowedany attempt to impose his special writing styleon others… but whose style is so strong that itgenerally does its own imposing.

A bearded non-hippie who has beenlauded by conservative publications for hisfirm anti-radical bias… and who has beentoasted by more liberal scribes for his NewLeft leanings.

A dynamo of energy who doesn’t mindtaking a short vacation trip… as long as it’sby train, so that he can write a few extrapages of Spider-Man en route.

A self-declared non-artist whoseability to draw even a straight linehas been hotly debated… but who

can use a few scribbledscrawls to show an artistsomething he should haveseen in the first place.

A devoted husband andfather… who nonethelessmanages to turn out more

He’s “The Man”!2 writer/editorial

YY

Stan Lee Finds New Career As “Maskot”!Believe it—there’ll be plenty of photos of Smiley in this issue! First, though, we decided—with the help of artist Stan Foley—to draft Our Fearless Leader into duty as the super-herocalled Alter Ego, who is also one of the “maskots” of this mag. The “Stan-face” is based,he says, on Marie Severin’s caricature in Fantastic Four #167 (1976). Thanks for making ithappen, Shane! [Alter Ego TM & ©2007 Roy & Dann Thomas; art ©2007 Shane Foley.]

A/E EDITOR’S NOTE: This is one of the earliest Stan Lee interviews ofsubstance ever done—which is only to be expected, since the 1965 interviewer wasTed White, a sophisticated science-fiction and comics fan. Ted’s early-1950s one-shot fanzine The Facts behind Superman was, as Bill Schelly writes in his 1997book The Golden Age of Comic Fandom, “one of the earliest known attempts towrite an authoritative in-depth article about a comic book super-hero.” In 1960 hewrote the second installment of Xero’s innovative “All in Color for a Dime”series—and in the mid-1960s and after, he was becoming a published science-fictionauthor (Phoenix Prime, et al.) and would soon be the editor of the sf magazine

Stan Lee Meets[Castle Of ]

FrankensteinInterview Conducted by Ted White

Titans In Triptych(Top right:) One of the most famous photos of Stan Lee is this one of MightyMarvel’s hat-bedecked editor, which was taken in autumn of 1965 especially for the inside front cover of the new reprint mag Fantasy Masterpieces #1 (Feb. 1966)—and was spoofed by Shane Foley a couple of pages back. But

nobody ever talks about who snapped this oft-reprinted pic! Though he wasaround at the time, Roy doesn’t recall, either, but he wonders—could it havebeen the one Marvel artist who then had his own photography studio—namely,

inker Vince Colletta? Be that as it may, thanks to Bob Bailey for the scan. [©2007 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

(Right) Because virtually all Stan Lee’s major work from the ’60s and ’70s is backin print—in trade paperback, in hardcover, or both—this issue of A/E featuresrelatively few images from the original comics. We’ll concentrate instead on

drawings by major talents of some of Stan’s most famous co-creations—startingwith this threesome done a few years back by the fine French comics artist Jean-Yves Mitton. It’s a commission sketch executed for Belgian collector

Dominique Léonard, who kindly sent us numerous pieces of art that’ll be seenherein. [Thor, Spider-Man, & Daredevil TM & ©2007 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

(Above center:) Interviewer Ted White circa 1966, acting as auctioneer at an early comics convention. This photo originally appeared in Larry Ivie’smagazine Monsters and Heroes—later in A/E #58. [©2007 the respective

copyright holders.]

And is the Castle of Frankenstein cover (above left) the issue in which Ted'sinterview with Stan appears? The cover, which says "Interview with Marvel

Comics" and sports a pic of Spidey, was printed in the 1968 SCARP-Con programbook. [Spider-Man TM & ©2007 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

5

Amazing. This interview has been reprinteda time or two, but since Ted was willing towrite an introduction to give it addedperspective, we’re happy to present it here yetagain—with different art. Oh, and it wasretyped for A/E by Brian K. Morris. Andnow—take it away, Ted….

met Stan Lee in 1965. We were both guestson an after-midnight radio show. The stationbelonged to New York’s Columbia

University and the show was hosted by aformer student there who was an acquaintanceof mine. I’d been on his show several times. Itwas one of those shows where you talk for awhile and then take calls from listeners. As Irecall, there either weren’t too many listeners,or they weren’t in the habit of calling in. We’dget only a few calls. The phones were not lit upconstantly.

When I was asked to be on this particularshow, I was told Stan would be the other guest,and that delighted me. I’d been followingStan’s revitalization of Marvel since AmazingFantasy #15 and Fantastic Four #1.

Our meeting was low-key, but friendly. Stanhad not yet been lionized and turned into acollege-campus celebrity. He had not yetbegun to wear a toupee. He was himself—naturally outgoing, gregarious, but prettymuch a regular guy. I’d had a couple bookspublished by then, and I was an assistant editorat The Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction, so we met as quasi-equals, guys who both labored in the vineyards of the professionalpublishing industry.

In the course of the next couple of hours, chatting on air andresponding to several callers, we bonded a bit. I honestly admired whatStan was doing with super-hero comics, and I asked him knowl-edgeable and sensible questions on-air without fawning on him like afanboy, so we got on well. At one point I showed him my MerryMarvel Marching Society card, which I carried in my wallet, and Stanautographed it with an inscription which read, “I’m flattered, Ted.”That, of course, left me feeling flattered.

That was the beginning of a relationship which lasted over the nextseveral years. In that time several things happened, not least amongthem Roy Thomas’ move to New York City and Marvel, and myfriendship with him.

In the course of that time Stan asked me to write for Marvel, but Iturned him down because I had no confidence in myself as a comicsscripter—even using the “Marvel method.” I had begun my profes-sional writing career in jazz criticism and journalism and was stilllearning (on the job, as it were) to write fiction. I was, I felt, weakest atdialogue—and comics writing was mostly dialogue.

But I did two other things. One of them was the interview repub-lished here. The other was my Captain America novel. The CaptainAmerica book came about largely because of Stan.

Otto Binder, a long-time science-fiction pulp writer and “CaptainMarvel” scripter, had been turned down by Stan when he sought workat Marvel, so he made an end-run around Stan and set up a dealbetween Martin Goodman, Marvel’s publisher, and Bantam Books to

do a series of paperback “novelizations” ofthe Marvel characters. Coincidentally, I had,through my agent, been talking to Bantamabout doing a Batman novel.

It was then a time of sudden pop-culturepopularity for comic book superheroes.Batman was going great guns on TV, andbook publishers were interested in getting inon the action. But Bantam learned that rivalpublisher Signet Books had first refusal on allbooks resulting from DC’s comics characters(both Signet and DC Comics were thendistributed by Independent News—whichowned DC), which made Batman inaccessibleto Bantam.

So Bantam had made a deal with MartinGoodman. They could do books usingMarvel’s secondary characters—but notSpider-Man or the Fantastic Four. And Binderhad gotten the contract to do a book featuringThe Avengers.

When Stan heard about this, he was lessthan happy about it–and rightly so, as eventsproved. (Otto’s book was embarrassingly bad,and sold poorly.) So he insisted that thesecond book, featuring Captain America, bedone by me. “Ted understands Marvel,” Stantold Bantam.

I got the contract to do the book after ahalf hour with a vice president and senioreditor at Bantam (we mostly talked about

Bantam author Ross Macdonald, whose work I’d admired for years)and a handshake. My agent wrapped up the deal.

Once I had the contract in hand, I sat down with Stan to discuss thebook. My initial thought was to more or less rework my plot for theBatman book, but Stan talked me out of it. He didn’t tell me what towrite—the eventual plot was entirely my own—but he pointed me in afresh direction, and helped me clarify my thinking. “Put Batmanentirely out of your mind,” he told me, and I did. The Great GoldSteal was a great deal of fun to write, and seemed to almost write itself.(I was particularly fond of the scene in which Steve Rogers isunmasked—and the villains realize they have no idea who he is.)

When the book was written and the manuscript delivered toBantam, I gave a copy of it to Stan. To my surprise, he did not read it,but turned it over to Roy to be vetted. (Roy actually used mydescription of the Avengers mansion, credited to me, in the subsequentAvengers Annual.)

That was in the fall of 1966. The book was supposed to be publishedearly in 1967. In January 1967 Bantam published Binder’s Avengersbook. I bought a copy and checked it out. The first chapter wasdevoted entirely to tedious descriptions of each of the Avengers’costumes! I read no further. Apparently I wasn’t the only one. Thebook sold very poorly—so poorly than Bantam held off on publishingmine, and decided not to do any further Marvel books.

The Captain America book was finally published in the late springof 1968—almost a year and a half later. By then the bloom was off thecomic book fad among book publishers. The moment for such bookshad come and gone, leaving The Great Gold Steal in the dust.Nonetheless, the book sold much better, essentially selling out its printrun with low returns—outselling the Avengers book by better than five

II

Ted, White, And BlueThe cover of the 1968 Ted White paperback novel

Captain America: The Great Gold Steal wasevidently painted by Mitchell Hooks.[©2007 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

6 1968 Interview Conducted By Ted White

16

[A/E EDITOR’S NOTE: This is one of the earlier articles thatbegan to take comics, especially Marvel Comics, seriously in the post-Batman-TV-craze, post-“camp” era, and we thought it worthreprinting almost exactly forty years later as an historical artifact—and a particularly lively one, at that. Reprinted from Eye Magazine(1968) by permission of author Norman Mark. With special thanksto Barry Pearl, Fearless Front Facer, for doing all the spadework onthis one!]

ay comic book. Come on, say it. Comic book.

Feel silly, don’t you? You’ve got visions of all those cuteanimals jabbering and stealing carrots, of strange guys in tights

and jockstraps flying through the air.

Read a comic book on a bus and people stare at you: “Look,Randolph, he’s reading a comic book, isn’t that stupid?” Mention themat a party, and you’re suddenly alone in a corner. Talk to a kid who

reads them and he thinks you’re trying to pass for an adolescent. Butthat’s all changing, brothers and sisters. No longer will you read yourcomics with a flashlight under the bedsheets, no longer will you waitfor the cover of darkness to put down your 12 cents for a costumedcrusader epic.

Comic books are surfacing, growing up, speaking out—maybe evenbecoming an art form!—and it’s time to take notice of them. Onepublisher at least, the Marvel Comics Group, is trying to raise this

The New Super-Hero(Is A Pretty Kinky Guy)Spider-Men May Be OK For Fighting Crime,

But Would You Want Your Sister To Marry One?by Norman Mark

SS Move Over, Gorgeous George And Honest Abe!Joe Sinnott, premier inker of the Lee-Kirby Fantastic Four and a fine artist inhis own right, placed Stan the Man on Mount Rushmore in this gorgeous

illustration. Hey, Joe—did you get that raise? (Just kidding! Joe’s one of thetruly nice guys in the comic book field, as well as one of the most talented,and doesn’t need to kiss up to anybody! He still inks Alex Saviuk’s pencils onthe Sunday Spider-Man newspaper strip, incidentally.) Thanks to Chris Frickeand Danny Fingeroth for the scan. Photo of Joe from 1969 FF Annual. [Human

Torch TM & ©2007 Marvel Characters, Inc.; other art ©2007 Joe Sinnott.]

media to the level of a James Bond movie, a Mission: Impossibletelevision series, or a Perry Mason novel. That is not bad company fora form despised by parents and ignored by critics. It all started aboutseven years ago when Stan Lee, an editor at Marvel, decided to create anew line of super-heroes which would be more… relevant. Forinstance, Captain America (he, The Human Torch, and Sub-Marinerwere earlier the company’s biggest sellers) changed from a simple-minded, patriotic do-gooder to a brooding super-hero who realizes hiszeal for right is out of joint with the times. “He knows he’s ananachronism, but he can’t change,” says Lee. “He’s sort of a contem-porary Hamlet.”

A whole new team of antiheroes subsequently was created—Spider-

Man, the Fantastic Four, Hulk, Silver Surfer, The X-Men—twenty-twoin all and all with their own special peculiarities and hangups.

Stan Lee, the modern Aesop, is a tall, thin, bearded, bright-eyed,forty-five-year-old who lives on Long Island with his wife, 18-year -olddaughter, and four dogs. He will feel his career in comics has beenjustified, he says, the day his wife “will go to a cocktail party and won’tbe embarrassed when she’s asked what her husband does for a living.”

That’s a simple, humble wish, well known tohairdressers, ballet dancers, and second-story men.But for Lee, it has not been easy to do. Aftergraduating from DeWitt Clinton High School inthe Bronx, he took a job writing obituaries forliving celebrities at a news service. At seventeen[NOTE: Actually 18.—Roy], he went to workfor Marvel Comics. An editor left and Lee tookthe job temporarily. He has been an editor eversince, ex cept for service in World War II when hewrote training films and held the military classifi-

cation of “playwright” (no kidding).

“I had always considered comics a stopgap until I could find time to do better writing,” he says. “Fi nally, about eight years ago I real izedI would be here for a while and why not make out of comics some thingI would like to read?”

The problem was to create char acters with some sort of super-pow ers—real comic book characters, no soap opera types. “If you hadsu per-powers, how would you act in the real world. If you wereyoung, wouldn’t you still have a case of acne, asthma, girl troubles,occa sionally lose fights, or be broke?” So gut reality broke into funnies.

Consider, if you will, Spider-Man, personality kid of comics. In real -ity, he’s Peter Parker, a normal college student who was bitten by aradioactive spider of human pro portions [sic] sometime before October1962. Now Peter has the strength of a spider of human proportions,but he still acts with all the bum bling ineptitude that you or I woulddisplay if we were in his tights.

The people of his hometown, New York, do not trust him (wouldyou want a spider living in your neighborhood?), the newspapers hatehim, and he simply cannot cope with his uniform, which is con stantlybeing torn in the line of duty and he has to stop and mend it himself.(What tailor could be trusted with his secret?) Also, his outfit is notdrip-dry, and he is con tinually jumping into a wet suit, which gives himcolds. He has trou ble with his widowed Aunt May, who suffers a heartattack in nearly every issue. Sometimes Spider-Man has to give her acall in the midst of fighting bad guys.

All of these things contributed to an inferiority complex that Peterhas only recently controlled. But he still shows signs of paranoia, oftenhas traumatic identity crises (he can’t tell anybody who he really is),has severe fits of depression, and feels terribly alienated.

Spider-Man is the only comic book character in memory who hasmatured. Six years ago when Lee created him, he was a nudnickchemistry major with a skin problem; he was extremely unsuccessfulwith girls (who hate spiders) and bullied by other students. Today, hedates sharp blondes, he has become more muscular, and has ahandsome, square-jawed face with no pimples.

Early on, Spider-Man created a secret formula for steel-like webbingthat adheres to buildings and helps him thwip (comic book for swing)around town. The webbing is also his most powerful weapon; he hasbeen known to run out of it at cru cial moments.

Spider-Man’s chief nemesis is The Green Goblin, but he doesn’t

Taking Up A Collection (Continued)Earlier this year, TwoMorrows published John Romita… and All That Jazz!,

edited by Roy Thomas and Jim Amash, showcasing three major (andlavishly illustrated) interviews with this artist with the golden touch—

whose photo is seen above right, from that 1969 Fantastic Four Annual. One of the many art spots in the popular Romita volume was John’s pencils

for an unused Amazing Spider-Man cover in which The Avengers’ old foe,The Collector, tries to add no less than President Abraham Lincoln to hisinterstellar trophy room. Just to bring things full circle, here’s the finished

version of that never-published cover, as inked by Joe Rubinstein. Retrieved for A/E by Dominic Bongo from the Heritage Comics Archives.

[©2007 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

[Continued on page 20]

The New Super-Hero (Is A Pretty Kinky Guy) 17

Stan and Joan Lee as newlyweds in their one-bedroom apartment inManhattan’s East 90s, circa 1947-48. Stan married Joan Clayton Boocock onDec. 5, 1947, just two weeks before his 25th birthday. In his autobiography,Stan’s co-writer scribes: “Stan always thought she was the best birthday or

Christmas present he ever got.”

Stan prepares to carry Joan across the threshold of their new 3-bedroomhome at 1084 W. Broadway, Woodmere, NY. The date on this picture is arather vague “1949-52,” but we really doubt if it took Stan three years to

carry her inside.

When Stan was 16, the Lieber family lived in thisapartment house at 1729 University Avenue in the Bronx.

Young Stan on a pony. Any chance that its name wasMarvel?

Photo Interlude:

Stan The (Family) ManThe Sept. 9, 2007, Sunday edition of The New York Times Real Estate Magazine, of all things, spotlighted a major feature on Marvel’s creative head honcho, withrare photos supplied by Stan and Joan Lee. Thanks to Stan & Joan for permission to print them here, and to Bob Bailey for sending us the scans. For more photosfrom the Lees’ personal life, pick up a copy of Stan’s autobiography Excelsior! The Amazing Life of Stan Lee, co-authored by George Mair and published by FiresideBooks in 2002. [All photos on this two-page spread ©2007 Stan & Joan Lee.]

18 Would You Want Your Sister To Marry A Spider-Man?

[A/E EDITOR’S NOTE: Thisconversation is reprinted fromChanges magazine for April15, 1970… and was likewiselocated for us by Barry Pearl,FFF. It is reprinted withpermission of Mike Bourne.]

arvel Comics springfrom modestMadison Avenue

offices randomly decorated byoversize drawings, copy, andother assorted fanciful diversions.In several small cubicles, likefreaky monks, a staff of artistsvariously evoke the next month’sadventures in all-brilliant colorand style. While in his office, hiscomplete Shakespeare close athand, editor Stan Lee smilesbroadly behind his cigar andbeckons me enter his head.

MIKE BOURNE:With whichsuper-hero do you personally mostidentify?

STAN LEE: Probably Homer the Happy Ghost. You know, I honestlydon’t identify with any of them. Or maybe I identify with all of them.But I’ve never thought of it. I’ve been asked this question before and Inever know how to answer it, because I think I identify with whicheverone I’m writing at the moment. If I’m writing Thor, I’m a Norse god atthat moment. If I’m writing The Hulk, I have green skin and everyonehates me. And when I stop writing them, they’re sort of out of mymind. I’m not identifying with anyone.

MB: You’re like an actor when you write.

LEE: Yeah, I think more than anything. In fact, when I was young Ithought I would be an actor, and I did act. And when I write now, mywife always makes fun of me. She says: “Stan, what did you say?” I say:“Nothing, I’m writing.” She says: “Well, you talk to yourself.” And Ifind very often I’m saying the lines out loud. And I’m acting! Youknow: “Take that, you rat!”

MB: Asking a writer where he gets his ideas is like asking an actorhow he learned all those lines, but Marvel is known as the House ofIdeas.

LEE: Only because I originally said we were the House of Ideas.

MB: All right, but obviously you have mythological influences. AndJim Steranko’s “House of Ravenlock” for SHIELD was very muchfrom the Gothic novel. But what are your primary sources, or yourfavorite sources for material? Just out of your head, or where?

LEE: Mostly. I think it all has to do with things I read and learned andobserved when I was young, because I don’t do as much reading or

movie-going oranything nowas I would like.I’m so busywriting all thetime. But I wasa voraciousreader when Iwas a teenager.And actually, Ithink my biggest influence was Shakespeare, who was my god. I mean,I loved Shakespeare because when he was dramatic; no one was moredramatic than he was. When he was humorous, the humor was soearthy and rich. To me he was the complete writer. I was just tellingsomebody this morning who was up here to try to do some writing forus to get as close to Shakespeare as possible. Because whateverShakespeare did, he did it in the extreme. It’s almost like the Yiddishtheatre. When they act, they act! Or the old silent movies where every-thing was exaggerated so the audience would know what the mood wasbecause they couldn’t hear the voices. So, actually, as I say, I used toread Shakespeare. I love the rhythm of words. I’ve always been in lovewith the way words sound. Sometimes I’ll use words just because ofthe sound of one playing upon the other. And I know comic bookwriters aren’t supposed to talk this way. But I like to think I’m reallywriting when I write a comic, and not just putting a few balloons on apage.

MB: Do you consciously strive to catch the tenor of the times?You’ve covered campus protest in Spider-Man. But what about otherissues? Do you feel that it’s your responsibility as an artist—and I

Stan Lee, The Marvel BardAn Interview Conducted By Mike Bourne, 1970

MM

Changes Are A-Coming—And A-Going!The front and back covers of the April 15, 1970, issueof Changes tabloid magazine—as preserved by BarryPearl, FFF. (See, Barry—we promised you we’d referto you by your old MMMS title—and now we can’tseem to break the habit!) The back cover Hulkdrawing was, of course, penciled by Jack Kirby.

[Art ©2007 Marvel Characters, Inc.; other art ©2007the respective copyright holders.]

26

Now It Can Be Told!(Above:) The Marvel “super-hero” with whom StanLee most identifies (or at least did, back in 1970) isthe title star of Homer the Happy Ghost, whose

adventures were being reprinted in 1969-70. Seenhere is Dan DeCarlo’s cover for issue #2 (May 1955).

(Top right:) Stan and DeCarlo (photo of Dan abovecourtesy of Joe Petrilak) also worked together on My Friend Irma, My Girl Pearl, Millie the Model—and the Willie Lumpkin newspaper comic strip,

whose hero would one day become the mailman forthe Baxter Building in New York City. Note that thepostmark at top left bears the date of the Sundaystrip: June 12, 1960. Thanks to Ger Apeldoorn. [©2007 the respective copyright holders.]

Stan Lee, The Marvel Bard 27

“Speak; Caesar Is Turned To Hear”Stan cut his eyeteeth writing “Shakespearean” (and related King James

Bible/Arthurian) style in the first issue of Black Knight (May 1955), drawn by JoeManeely—and perfected it in the mid/late 1960s and early 1970s in Thor. All thelatter work is currently in print, so here’s a (wordless) drawing of the thunder

god’s buddies Hogun, Fandral, and Volstagg, “Warriors Three,” reportedly by JohnRomita (pencils) and Jim Mooney (inks), done as a cover for a Marvel-UK mag—but

Ye Editor isn’t at all certain that the Jazzy One actually penciled it. Thanks toAnthony Snyder. Photo courtesy of Nancy Maneely. [©2007 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

won’t say “comics” artist here, but obviously we can acceptyou as an artist with other kinds of artists—is it your duty totake a stand on issues?

LEE: I think it’s your duty to yourself, really, more than to thepublic. See, this is a very difficult field. For years my handswere tied. We thought we were just writing for kids, and weweren’t supposed to do anything to disturb them or upset theirparents, or violate the Comics Code, and so forth. But over theyears as I realized more and more adults were reading ourbooks and people of college age (which is tremendously grati-fying to me), I felt that now I can finally start saying some ofthe things I would like to say. And I don’t consciously try tokeep up with the tempo or the temper of the times. What I tryto do is say the things I’m interested in. I mean, I don’t wantto write comics. I would love to be writing about drugs andabout crime and about Vietnam and about colleges and aboutthings that mean something. At least I can put a little of that inthe stories. As I say, though, I’m really doing it for myself, notthe reader. But everybody wants to say what he thinks. And ifyou’re in the arts, you want to show what you believe. I thinkthat’s pretty natural.

MB: What do you consider your responsibility as a comicsartist, then?

LEE: To entertain. I think comic books are basically an enter-tainment medium, and primarily people read them for escapistenjoyment. And I think the minute they stop being enjoyablethey lose all their value. Now hopefully I can make themenjoyable and also beneficial in some way. This is a difficulttrick, but I try within the limits of my own talent.

MB: Several years ago, Esquire published a collage of the“28 Who Count” on the Berkeley campus, and includedwere the Hulk and Spider-Man. What’s this great appeal ofMarvel Comics to college students?

LEE: I don’t know. I would think the fact that there’s a sort ofserendipity, there is surprise. You don’t expect to find a comicbook being written as well as we try to write Marvel. Youdon’t expect to find a comic book that’s aimed at anyone abovetwelve years old. And I think a college kid might pick up aMarvel comic just to idly leaf through it and then a big wordcatches his eye. Or a flowery phrase or an interesting concept.And before he knows it, not every college kid, but a goodmany of them are hooked. And I think it’s the fact that here issomething which has always been thought .of as a children’stype of diversion. And they realize: “My God! I can enjoy thisnow!” This is kind of unusual.

MB: It’s like the end of the one Avengers story when youused [Percy Shelley’s poem] “Ozymandias” to reinforce thevillain’s downfall.

LEE: Wasn’t that great? That was Roy Thomas’ idea, one ofthe best he’s ever had. Beautiful ending that way.

MB: I’ve always wondered that perhaps the appeal is the catalog ofneuroses in the super-heroes. That they’re all into the numberspeople are going through now. Human fallibility, altruism, identitycrises, these sorts of things. Even your arch-fiends like Dr. Doom andThe Mandarin and Galactus are not really all bad. They’ve all beenforced to be bad, to be misanthropes, by force of circumstances. Butwhen’s sex going to come into Marvel Comics?

LEE: Unfortunately not until we get rid of the Comics Code, or putout a line strictly for adults (which I’ve been wanting to do). But I just

haven’t been able to convince the powers-that-be that the world isready for them yet.

MB: Well, obviously you’ve broken some barriers by having heroesmarried and having children.

LEE: Hopefully, someday we’ll be able to put out a line—not that wewant to do dirty books—but something that’s really significant andreally on the level of the older reader.

MB: I recall one thing that wigged me in that regard: the beginningof a “Nick Fury” story where it was morning with a subtle hint ofthe previous night’s activities.

“Life Is What Happens To You While You’re Making Other Plans”John Lennon said that—and Stan Lee, like everybody else, lives it. For example, Stanwanted to do comics outside the Code Authority, and his first effort, against publisherMartin Goodman’s “better judgment,” was Savage Tales #1 (May 1971). The “Conan,”"Femizons," "Ka-Zar," and "Man-Thing" stories therein have all been reprinted—butnot "Black Brother!," the feature that started out as a conversation between Stan andDenny O’Neil over a notion of Smiley’s titled “M’Tumbu the Mighty.” (See A/E #50 fordetails.) Stan didn’t like the story that emerged—though not because of the art by GeneColan & Tom Palmer or the quality of the writing—and Denny, unhappy with editorial

changes, asked that his byline be changed to his familiar pseudonym “SergiusO’Shaughnessy,” taken from a character in a Norman Mailer novel. “Black Brother!”actually had possibilities as a series that were fated never to be realized, but Standidn’t feel it was right for Marvel at that time. [©2007 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

28 Interview Conducted By Mike Bourne, 1970

Stan Lee: 1974Re-Presenting A Classic Conversation With

Marvel’s Master From Comics Feature MagazineInterview Conducted by Jay Maeder

A/E EDITOR’S NOTE: Comics Featurewas a professional magazine publishedfor several years by the fabled Schusterbrothers, Hal and Jack. Richard Howelland Carole Kalish, among others, cuttheir eyeteeth doing interviews for it, andeven Ye Ed did a series for it for a time,since they’d let him write about anythinghe wanted to write about. This is one ofseveral neglected Stan Lee interviewslocated for this issue by collector andarchivist Barry Pearl, who contactedinterviewer Jay Maeder. It is reprinted bypermission—for which we thank Jayprofusely. For his part, Barry says that theonly thanks he wants for all his work onbehalf Alter Ego #74 is to be recognizedat last in print as an “FFF”—whichstands, in the 1960s lingo of the MerryMarvel Marching Society, for “FearlessFront Facer.” You have now been dulyrecognized, Barry—please accept oursincerest gratitude for your Herculeanefforts. Now on with the interview, inwhich Jay Maeder’s questions andcomments were rendered in italics, withStan’s responses in Arabic script—likeso!….

here are probably worse things to bethan the wildly celebrated king ofthe comics. I imagine you rather

enjoy being Stan Lee.

It wasn’t always this way, I must admit.In the first fifteen years or so that I wasthe head writer and editor at Timely andAtlas, I remember, my wife and I would goto cocktail parties and somebody wouldsay, “What do you do?” and I’d say, “Oh,I’m a writer.” “Really? What do youwrite?” And I’d start getting a littlenervous and I’d say, “Uh, magazinestories.” “Really? What magazine?” And Iknew there was no way of avoiding it, andI’d end up saying, “Comic books,” andsuddenly the person’s expression wouldchange… “Oh, isn’t that nice,” and they’d walk away, you know,looking for some television or radio or novelist celebrity. That’s allchanged now. I go to places and I’m held up as one of the more inter-esting celebrities… and people go over to the playwrights, you know,and say “Hey, I want you to meet Stan Lee, he’s the head of MarvelComics, he made up Spider-Man.”

And I must say I’m very happy thatthis has happened. It’s like achievingone of my goals, because I remember Iwrote an editorial, it must have been agood fifteen years ago, and I said one ofour main objectives would be bringingsome additional measure of respect tocomics, that I would consider myselfand our company successful if we founda way before we were through this valeof tears to elevate comics in the mindsof the public. So that if somebody said,I write comics, or I draw for comics,people would say, “Hey, really? Tell usabout it.” And not say, “A grown manlike you?” You know what I mean? Sofrom that point of view I’m very happynow.

How did you get where you are?

Sheer accident. I never wanted to bea writer particularly. As a kid I joinedthe WPA Federal Theatre. I wanted tobe an actor. But there wasn’t enoughmoney… and I always loved adver-tising, and the closest I could get to itwas, I found a job writing copy for anews service, and then I started writingobituaries for people who were stillalive, and I was writing publicityreleases for the National JewishTuberculosis Hospital in Denver. All ofwhich was pretty depressing. A millionthings, you know. I was an office boyfor a trousers company, I was an usherat the Rivoli Theatre. Anyway, they hada contest at the Herald-Tribune[newspaper], an essay contest, which Iwon three weeks running, and whoeverthe editor was at the time called me andasked me to stop entering the contest.And he asked me what I intended to be.I was just out of high school, you know,and I said, well, I don’t know, an adver-tising man or an actor or a lawyer orsomething, and he said why don’t yoube a writer?

Coincidentally, I learned of a job that was opening up at TimelyComics. They needed a gofer. Timely Comics then had Joe Simon andJack Kirby, and they had just sort-of created Captain America, andthey were doing “The Human Torch” and “Sub-Mariner,” and I camein, and before I knew it, they had me writing “Captain America” and

The Uncanny Excelsior!-ManJazzy Johnny Romita—who else?—painted the cover of Stan’s2002 autobiography Excelsior! The Amazing Life of Stan Lee,which was co-written with George Mair for Fireside Books, adivision of Simon & Schuster. While Ye Editor (and others)feel the book should’ve been longer, fleshed out with moreanecdotes and hard information about the comics, and

profusely illustrated with Marvel images, what was presentedtherein was definitely the closest look ever at Stan the man(small “m”). The book revealed far more about Stanley

Martin Lieber’s personal life than had any previous article orinterview or unauthorized volume, and included numerousprivate photos (few of which are reprinted in this issue of

A/E)—and that alone would make it a “must” for thebookshelf of anyone interested in the history of comic books.[Cover ©2007 Stan Lee & George Mair; super-heroes thereon

TM & ©2007 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

36

TT

they had me doing someediting. Shortly thereafter,Joe and Jack left, and I waslike the only guy there andthe publisher asked me if Icould fill in as editor untilhe found someone else. Andhe never found anyone andI’ve been there ever since.

I never thought of it as a permanent job. I never particularly wantedto be in the comic book business and I always figured, hey, this is great,I’ll stay here a year or two or three until I make some money and thenI’ll write the Great American Novel. And for years and years I stayedin the job, never thinking of it as my permanent career. For years thiswent on. And I was too dumb to realize, hey, this is what you’re doing,Stan, this is it. I always had this feeling of temporariness.

And business got bad and we had to fire a lot of people… I was leftwith a skeleton crew, which consisted mostly of me. And we wereliving at Timely under the conditions where every few years there was anew trend. We’d be very big in Westerns and suddenly the Westernfield dried up and we had to find a new trend, and we’d be doing a lotof super-heroes and then there was a lack of interest in super-heroes sowe had to find a new trend… and we’d do romances or mysteries orfunny animals. Whatever. And there was no… I mean, I’d write one aswell, or as badly, as another. It never made a difference to me what typeof thing we were doing. The [Comics] Code was no problem to me. Wenever put out books that I felt were too violent or objectionable. Theycertainly weren’t sexy. I never had trouble putting out books thatwould be acceptable to whoever had to accept them. So when thisperiod came around, it was just like another new trend. Okay, we’vegot to drop the so-called horror stories and now we’ve go to findsomething else to do. And we did. We came out with… I don’t evenremember what we came out with, but I assume we found something.

The whole Atlas thing… this was not the greatest period thecomics have ever known…

Yeah.

Atlas is into the journey into unknown world thing, you know,you and Kirby and Ditko are doing variations on the Japanesemonster film, Fin Fang Foom and all this… and somewhere in hereyou start dreaming about a whole dif ferent approach, and what I’masking is this: was this an ac cidental thing or did you guys sit downand very deliberately create a revolution. [NOTE: Actually, Maederis referring to the post-Atlas period of the late 1950s and very early’60s. —Roy.]

Both. It was accidental and I did it deliberately. What hap penedwas, like I say, I’d been thinking it was a temporary job, you know, I’mwaiting till I’ve saved up enough money so I can quit and go dosomething else. And my wife said to me one day, “Stan, when are yougonna realize this is per manent? And instead of looking to dosomething sensational in some other field, why don’t you makesomething sen sational about what you’re doing? I mean, you’rewriting, you are creating… do something really good.”

Well, of course, up until then I had always done mostly what thepublisher wanted. As you mentioned, it was not a glorious period forthe comics. Certainly not for our company. And our publisher, whoalso published other types of books—movie books and crosswordpuzzle books and so on, the slicks—by this time he had left the comicspretty much in my hands. He didn’t have any tremendous interest.They weren’t doing all that well and he wasn’t that much concerned, Isuspect. And coincidentally my publisher walks in one day and he says,“You know, Stan, I just realized, I was looking at some sales figures,and I see that National Comics’ Justice League seems to be sellingpretty good. That’s a bunch of super-heroes, Stan, maybe we ought toform a team of super-heroes. Maybe there’s a market for that now.”

Those Were The Days, My Friend(Left:) When Stan went to work for Timely Comics in 1941, Captain America was just under way and the company’s

flagship title was Marvel Mystery Comics, starring “Human Torch” and “Sub-Mariner.” Marvel is currently reprinting theearly issues of both mags, as well as Human Torch, Sub-Mariner, and other key titles—so we figured we’d toss in adesign illustration a few years back by Sal Buscema (penciler) and Tim Townsend (inker) for a Universal theme parksculpture featuring Timely stars Torch, Namor, Cap & Bucky, The Vision, Miss America, The Angel, The Whizzer, and TheDestroyer. The latter, incidentally, was the first major hero co-created by young Stan Lee. Repro’d from an image in a

2004 Heritage Comics catalog. Photo of Sal Buscema from 1969 FF Annual.

(Above:) These “Human Torch” panels ran in Marvel Mystery #32 (June 1942)—one of the last stories signed by creatorCarl Burgos (photo below courtesy of daughter Susan) before he went into military service for the duration of World WarII. Later-’40s “Sub-Mariner” art by Namor’s creator, Bill Everett, can be seen on p. 8. [©2007 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Stan Lee: 1974 37

38 A Classic Conversation With Marvel’s Master

“Every Few Years There’d Be A New Trend”Stan’s point can be illustrated through the work of oneartist—Syd Shores, for years a Timely mainstay, seen attop left in an overexposed photo printed in the early-1970s Canadian fanzine The Satirists, surrounded byseveral decades of his art. (Clockwise from above:)

When Simon & Kirby left Timely after doing the firstten issues of Captain America Comics, issue #11 (Feb.

1942) was penciled by Al Avison and inked byShores—who’d soon become Cap’s major penciler for

the rest of the 1940s.

When it was briefly thought super-heroinesmight save the industry, Syd became the

primary artist of Blonde Phantom, as per this panel from #14 (Summer 1947).

Thanks to Dr. Michael J. Vassallo.

Syd also acquitted himself well, thoughrarely, in the burgeoning arena ofhorror comics, as seen in this splash

page from Astonishing #16 (Aug. 1952).Thanks to Jay Kinney & Frank Motler.

Of course, Shores also did Westerns andother genres during the 1950s—

including Crusader-era derring-do inBlack Knight #5(April 1956).

When he returned toMarvel in the late’60s, Syd Shores

again inked CaptainAmerica—but he likedbest when he coulddo full art, as per thecover of Gunhawks#2 (Dec. 1972). Bythis time, though,Stan and Marvel hadstaked out their

claim as the industryleaders based ontheir super-heroes.

[All art in this montage ©2007 Marvel

Characters, Inc.]

Marvel CharactersMeet Their Maker!STAN LEE’s Comic Book Cameos—Together Again For The First Time!

Written & Compiled by Jerry K. Boydt’s always one of those movie moments you don’t want to miss: Stan Leemaking a cameo in one of the films featuring Marvel super-heroes.

And, though Hollywood filmmakers may be patting themselves on theircollective backs for these niceties, the genesis of these fun-filled filmic momentshad its roots in the Marvel Age of Comics several decades ago.

Stan, allied in some instances with the likes of Jack Kirby, Dick Ayers, CarlBurgos, Stan Goldberg, and others, wrote himself (or was included by others)into the exploits of the Fantastic Four, Sgt. Fury and the Howlers, Daredevil,and even Forbush-Man and Millie the Model! Years later, as Stan the publisherrelinquished his hands-on editing, writing, and art-directing chores, he stillshowed up in a few mags as tokens of respect from the new kids of the ’70s.

For this still-far-from-complete compilation, we largely excluded back-uptales about story conferences (even though they were a lot of fun!) and focusedon The Man and his Marvel Age characters (whom he either co-created orrevamped), so the result would be akin to… scenes you might see in the movies!Some of them you’ve doubtless seen and savored before—while others may haveeluded you. But we thought this 85th-birthday issue (have a good one, Stan!)might be just the place to gather a lot of these magical moments together.

The guided “Hollywood tour” begins here… in roughly chronologicalorder… with those colorful cameos going further back than you might’vethought…!

II

Stan And Friends(Above:) As per scanner Jerry Boyd’s notes, this is a photo of “Stan Lee, surrounded by some of the Marvel characters that made the House of Ideas such a wonderful place to visit, on the cover of [the house fanzine] Marvel Age #41 (Aug. 1986).”

[©2007 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

(Below:) Jerry couldn’t resist doing his own drawing of Stan withour Marvel-ous “maskots” Alter Ego (in foreground) and CaptainEgo (bkgd.), in the company of some of the heroes that you—andStan—will be encountering on the next few pages. Even Forbush-Man found time to show up for Stan’s birthday bash! JKB intended

this as a heading for this issue’s letters section, but that gotsqueezed out this issue, so…. [Marvel heroes TM & ©2007 MarvelCharacters, Inc.; Alter Ego TM & ©2007 Roy & Dann Thomas;

Captain Ego TM & ©2007 Roy Thomas & Bill Schelly.]

47

Irma Gets Firma(Above:) Irma (as in My Friend Irma, popular 1940s-1950s radio & TV show)invades the Timely editorial offices in issue #41 of her own mag (cover-

dated March 1954) to see what writer/editor Stan Lee and artist Dan DeCarloare up to in there! [©2007 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

No, It Isn’t Stan Who’s “The Raving Maniac”—It’s The Other Guy!

(Left:) This comic book editor in the above-titled story in Suspense#29 (March 1953) may or may not have been intended to be Stan—who apparently never smoked a cigarette except once as a prop onthe cover of a 1947 issue of Writer’s Digest—but we’ve slipped it inanyway. Chances are that artist Joe Maneely meant it as a caricatureof Stan, who in the final panel is even shown talking at home to hisyoung daughter—at a time when his real daughter Joan Cecilia (seepp. 18-19) was about the same age. This excellent anti-censorship talewas reprinted in the 2005 hardcover Marvel Visionaries: Stan Lee.

[©2007 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Millie And Chili Get Silly(Left:) Millie and Chili likewise drop in on Stan and Dan, in Millie the Model#77 (April 1957), where the two creators—who apparently haven’t changedtheir duds since 1954—are engaged in business as usual… i.e., goofing off.

[©2007 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

48 Stan Lee’s Comic Book Cameos!

Twice-Told Marvel Heroes!(Part Two)

by Michael T. Gilbert

et’s face it. When you get right down to it, comics don’thave all that many original heroes. Mostly we have spin-offs(Superboy, Mary Marvel, and Kid Flash) or variations on atheme (super-speedsters like The Flash, Quicksilver,

Mercury, Lightning, Johnny Quick, and The Whizzer).

Comic book writers often look to popular movies, comicstrips, or pulp heroes for inspiration. By dipping from the samecreative well, creators from different companies sometimes comeup with similar super-heroes without even knowing it.

Which brings us to Stan Lee.

In the 1960s, Stan co-created hundreds of heroes and villains forMarvel. Any writer that prolific is bound to re-invent the wheel onoccasion. Last issue we discussed the Golden Age Daredevil,created in 1940 by Jack Cole for publisher Lev Gleason.

This time, we’re taking a look at some long-forgotten prototypesof Marvel’s most famous heroes. What better place to begin thanMarvel’s first Silver Age super-hero group––The Avengers!

Let’s begin with the Avenger known as…

Iron Man!Long before Stan and his collaborators put Tony Stark in his

metallic long-johns, another Iron Man roamed the pages of Quality’sSmash Comics. This “Iron Man” was actually not a man at all—but arobot named Bozo, controlled by his mad-scientist creator, Dr. VonThorp.

In the origin story, Von Thorp orders his robot to terrorize the city.Unable to stop the metal monster, the cops call on the one man withthe moxie to take on the case—dashing adventurer Hugh Hazzard!

LL(Left & below:) StanLee and Jack Kirby’scover to the first

“Iron Man” adventurein Tales of Suspense#39 (March 1963)looks remarkably

similar to the cover toQuality’s SmashComics #5 (Dec.1939)! [Iron Man

cover ©2007 MarvelCharacters, Inc.; Bozoart © the respectivecopyright holders.]

(Left:) And this “Iron Man” logo fromSmash #1 (August 1939) reminds us ofMarvel’s cover lettering, above. [©2007

the respective copyright holders.]

56 Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt!

Who Slew Fox’s Thor?by Will Murray

Poor Victor Fox! He could do noright back in 1939-40, when the self-styled King of Comics launched hisdoomed Golden Age comic book line,Fox Features. No sooner had hepublished the first issue of WonderComics, starring Will Eisner’s ill-fated“Wonder Man,” than DC Comics suedhim, claiming copyright and trademarkinfringement on “Superman.” Fox lostthat contest. End of “Wonder Man.”Wonder Comics became WonderworldComics.

Two months later, Fox’s Green Hornetclone, “The Blue Beetle,” first poked hisfeelers into the four-color forest inMystery Men Comics #1 (Aug. 1939).The next issue, patrolman Dan Garretttraded his trenchcoat and fedora forstandard super-hero togs, not doubtavoiding an embarrassing date in court.

It didn’t stop there. When another new Fox hero, “Electro,”appeared in Science Comics #1 early in 1940, it was Timely Comics’turn to stomp Fox. Their complaint: they had introduced a robot called

Electro in Marvel Mystery Comics #4. Both Electros debuted in issuescover-dated Feb. 1940. Somehow Fox lost that particular horse race,and was forced to rename his hero. “Electro” became “Dynamo,” andsoon ran out of power.

DC came back for another piece of Victor Fox when Jim Mooney’s“The Moth” fluttered to life in the April 1940 issue of Mystery MenComics. Complaining that this was a thinly-disguised steal of“Batman,” DC insisted that “The Moth” cease and desist. Five issueslater, he did—although Mooney later parleyed this credit into a long-term Batman gig. Editor Whit Ellsworth remembered “The Moth.”He’d admired Mooney’s art.

Fox had no better luck with Fantastic Comics. While leadfeature “Samson” continued unchallenged, “Flick Falcon” met a

(Above:) Twin Thors! The origin of Thor, God of Thunder, from Fox’s WeirdComics #1 (April 1940)—and Marvel’s from Journey into Mystery #83 (August

1962). The Jack Kirby/Joe Sinnott story inside the latter was plotted by Stan Leeand scripted by Larry Lieber. Kirby, of course, had drawn Thor before—first, a fake one in the Simon & Kirby “Sandman” story in Adventure Comics #75

(May 1942), then in DC’s Tales of the Unexpected #16 (Aug. 1957); these splashesare on display in Roy Thomas’ TwoMorrows trade paperback The All-StarCompanion, Vol. 2. [Fox Thor ©2007 the respective copyright holders;

Marvel Thor ©2007 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

(Left:) As seen in Fox’s Weird Comics #1, a dejected Grant Farrelcontemplates suicide after being dumped by his gal—right beforeblond, bearded Thor floats down amidst bolts of lightning tomake him an offer he can’t refuse: “The lightning will be yourservant. My magic hammer, your weapon!” Sounds a leetlefamiliar, eh? [©2007 the respective copyright holders.]

Of course, Marvel’s Dr. Don Blake didn’t do so well with theladies, either!

Twice-Told Marvel Heroes (Part Two) 59

ete Tumlinson’s comic book career was relatively short, but Iliked his work quite a bit in those old Timely comics of thelate ’40s to the mid-1950s. Thus, I was always curious about

him, and, though Pete’s recollections about those days are notextensive, I‘m just happy to share what I’ve learned about him—and about Timely (later Marvel) under Stan Lee in the postwaryears through the coming of the Comics Code.—Jim.

“I Was A Flying Chauffeur ForEisenhower’s Headquarters”

JIM AMASH: I’ll start with the basic question: when and wherewere you born?

PETE TUMLINSON: [laughs] Well, let’s see. That would be 1920 inGlasgow, Montana, June 7th.

JA: What got you interested in being an artist?

TUMLINSON: I don’t know. I’ve always done it from the very first.

JA: Did you copy newspaper strips or illustrations in magazineswhen you were young?

TUMLINSON: Yeah, but I didn’t stay with that exclusively. I wentand dreamed up things of my own, sooner or later. I didn’t do muchwriting. Over the years, I had several classes in different things fromfigure drawing to painting.

I went to the University of Chicago one time when I was veryyoung—high school, I think. And at one time I took illustration inDallas. I can’t think of the name of the place right now. They called me cold on a Saturday morning. [mutual laughter] I got a B.A. inarchitecture at Texas A&M.

JA: What years were you in college?

TUMLINSON: ’39 to ’42. I didn’t finish, though. I went off to the warand then I came back after the war and finished. I was in the Air Force.I started out in the field artillery. I volunteered. You see, I started out inthe ROTC in college, so I just continued. In the meantime, the warstarted.

I transferred to the Air Corps. It later became the [Army] AirForce[s]. They were enlarging at that time, so they were taking peoplefrom other branches. That’s how I got from field artillery to the AirForce. After I got my wings, I—it was a long time ago. I’m trying to

get this in the right order. At one point there, I went overseas and Iwent to SHAEF headquarters. I was a flying chauffeur for

65

“Once [Stan Lee] Put Me OnStaff, I Was Strictly With

Timely Comics”Golden Age Timely Artist PETE TUMLINSON Talks

About Timely And OthersInterview Conducted by Jim Amash Transcribed by Brian K. Morris

PP

This Is Not Pete TumlinsonAlas, we were unable to obtain a photograph of Pete Tumlinson by

presstime. So, to lead off his interview, we’ll showcase a splash page hedrew starring one of the most famous features he worked on—“Kid Colt”from Wild Western #20 (Feb. 1952). Incidentally, except where otherwisenoted below, all art accompanying this interview was provided by Dr.

Michael J. Vassllo. [©2007 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Eisenhower’sheadquarters. [NOTE:General Dwight D.Eisenhower wasSupreme AlliedCommander in Europefrom 1943-45; SHAEFstood for “SupremeHeadquarters AlliedExpeditionary Forces.—Roy.]

JA: Did you see anycombat?

TUMLINSON: Not on apersonal level. I was inthe war theatre, all right. Ihad a buzz bomb go offunder me one time. Butthat was a thousand feet inthe air, so it didn’t hurtme. I was used to them bythat time, so it didn’t scareme much then, but thatwas about the closest Icame to one.

I was mainly a flyingchauffeur. I flew back overfrom places like London toParis and then, later on, Berlin. Actually, I didn’t goto Berlin. I went to Frankfurt.

JA: Were you flying dignitaries, men of state, thatsort of thing?

TUMLINSON: All kinds, everything from secre-taries to generals.

“I Started Off As A Freelancer”JA: When were you discharged?

TUMLINSON: In ’46, after the war. I got my degreeand then went off to Dallas and worked for an adver-tising company for a while. Later on, I went up toNew York and drew comic books. I’d always beeninterested in comics. I drew them in school and incollege, so it was just a natural step.

JA: I don’t know if this is accurate, but you’ll tellme. I have you working for a company called “DSPublishing” before you started working for Timely.

TUMLINSON: That would be DC. DC was a comicbook publisher.

JA: Okay, so you did not work for a companycalled DS, did you?

TUMLINSON: No, I don’t remember anything with an “S” in it. InNew York, I worked for Stan Lee at Timely.

JA: You’re listed as having worked for editor Ray Herman at Orbit.Did you?

TUMLINSON: I don’t think so.

JA: Did you work for DC Comics?

TUMLINSON: I may have done one or two freelance jobs, but Ididn’t have a steady job there. Most of the time, I was with Stan Lee.

JA: What did you show Stan when you were looking for work? Didyou make up some comic book samples?

TUMLINSON: Well, I already had plenty of samples of differentthings that I had done, and a lot of them were comic strips. Like I say, I

A Question Of IdentityPete didn’t recall working for DSPublishing or Orbit Publications,possibly because those companiesused other names in dealing with

freelancers. But the ever-researching Jim Vadeboncoeur,Jr., sent Jim Amash the three

above scans with thisaccompanying note, based on theartist’s own sketchy recollections:

“It is certainly possible thatTumlinson didn’t do the story in[DS’s] Gangsters Can’t Win, Vol. 1,#1 (Feb-March 1948)… but take a good look at this sample page[above left]. And I’d bet dollars to doughnuts that he did these‘Nuggets Nugent’ strips in Orbit’sThe Westerner #32 & #34.” Andthat’s where we’ll have to let itstand, Jim—except to say that thetwo Orbit issues in question cameout in late 1950 through early 1951.

[GCW cover ©2007 MarvelCharacters, Inc.; Westerner art©2007 the respective copyright

holders.]

66 Golden Age Timely Artist Pete Tumlinson

[Captain Marvel by Rubén Procopio. Shazam! characters art TM & ©2007 DC Comics.]

[FCA EDITORS NOTE: From 1941-53, Marcus D. Swayze was atop artist for Fawcett Publications. The very first Mary Marvelcharacter sketches came from Marc’s drawing table, and he illus-trated her earliest adventures, including the classic origin story,“Captain Marvel Introduces Mary Marvel (Captain MarvelAdventures #18, Dec. ’42); but he was primarily hired by FawcettPublications to illustrate Captain Marvel stories and covers for WhizComics and Captain Marvel Adventures. He also wrote manyCaptain Marvel scripts, and continued to do so while in the military.After leaving the service in 1944, he made an arrangement withFawcett to produce art and stories for them on a freelance basis outof his Louisiana home. There he created both art and story for ThePhantom Eagle in Wow Comics, in addition to drawing the Flyin’Jenny newspaper strip for Bell Syndicate (created by his friend andmentor Russell Keaton). After the cancellation of Wow, Swayzeproduced artwork for Fawcett’s top-selling line of romance comics,including Sweethearts and Life Story. After the company ceasedpublishing comics, Marc moved over to Charlton Publications,where he ended his comics career in the mid-’50s. Marc’s ongoingprofessional memoirs have been a vital part of FCA since his firstcolumn appeared in FCA #54, 1996. Last issue Marc looked back atwhen he first began to work on Fawcett’s romance comics. In thisinstallment he discusses his very first attempted syndicated comicstrip, Judi the Jungle Girl.—P.C. Hamerlinck.]

t’s difficult to recall just what I was looking for recently when Icame upon a mystifying packet of original art panels. It turned outto be Sunday page art that had been cut up and rearranged for

tabloid newspaper proportion. Apparently there had been enoughsyndicate interest at some point to justify the laborious modification.Whatever … there it was … the first comic strip I ever drew … wrote… attempted. Its title: Judi the Jungle Girl.

I was disappointed with what I saw. Immediate criticism was thescanty renderings of background foliage. For a strip with the word“jungle” in the title, there wasn’t enough “jungle” in the pictures. Notenough, that is, to provide an appropriate mood for the environmentintended.

Of most concern, I thought, was the drawing … or lack of drawing… of the principal character. Judi, from head to toe, the figure, thecostume, was done in simple, thin lines … with no shading. It left afeeling that a slight breeze from the nearest window might blow herfrom the page!

It’s possible that I could have been struggling at the time with a fearof shading … of any kind … on the flesh tone. Not until the fourthpage, in a mid-panel close-up, does a lightly feathered halftone shadowappear, on the face of one of the bad guys.

Oddly, in the title panel atop the first page, in theportraits of Judi and her canine friend Jango, moreattention appears to have been paid to the rendering ofthe dog … than to the girl. It’s an inconsistency thatprevails throughout the project. Jango was an oppor-tunity to utilize something I was learning at the time …how to use the flexible ink pen.

I don’t know what prompted me to attempt a junglegirl feature. A detective would have been easier … or acowboy. The work I held had been so obviouslydominated by a mad urgency … a haste to do what Iwas not yet capable of doing … write and draw acomic strip. It’s doubtful that I was aware in 1939-40that comic books existed, other than those with

reprints of past newspaper strips. I would certainly have not known if a“jungle girl” was in print.

Influenced by Tarzan of the Apes? Of course, but not the movie …or the comic strip … the novel, by Edgar Rice Burroughs. It had beenread to me as a kid, and I was still impressed by the way the author hadmade jungle life so plausible.

Hoping to find a favorable aspect or two in the Judi work, I wentthrough it again. Not bad work, considering the professionalexperience behind it … none. And, in the business just long enough toknow it was where I belonged, the impatience that characterized theproject can be understood. There was distinction among the characters… and they weren’t afraid to use their hands and arms in expressingemotions.

The writing, particularly the first few pages, might be consideredcreditable. And, the first page, where the puppy Jingo is being sniffed atby a friendly dweller of the wilderness, leaves me pleased at not havingdiscarded the Judi drawings.

[Following is Marc Swayze’s complete contingent of Judi of theJungle sample strips prepared nearly 70 years ago. All art & story©2007 Marc Swayze.]

[Art & logo ©2007 Marc Swayze; Captain Marvel © & TM 2007 DC Comics]

By

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76 “We Didn’t Know... It Was The Golden Age!”

aptain Marvel is pitted against a foe he can’t seem to see in “ThePhantom of the Department Store,” a Christmas story fromFawcett’s Captain Marvel Adventures #19 (Jan. 1943).

The tale begins with Mr. Morris sending Billy and Steamboat (whois preoccupied with a camera he has) to Massey’s Department Store(obviously a thinly-disguised version of the real-life Macy’s) to pick upsome items. Billy mentions to Steamboat during their trek down to thestore that Massey’s seems to have more business than the city’s otherlarge department store, Dunkel’s (not too close an approximation of thename of Macy’s then-rival Gimbel’s—“Does Macy’s tell Gimbel’s?” wasa popular catch phrase of the day).

Also taking note of the success of Massey’s are Mr. Dunkel and oneof his associates, but the former begins making plans to do somethingabout it. Later, an already-costumed “Santa Claus” appears to apply forMassey’s advertised Santa job, and is summarily hired. “Your dutieswill be simply to walk up and down the store and add Christmasatmosphere.” “I’ll add plenty of atmosphere, never fear,” responds thenewly-hired Kris Kringle.

A few minutes later, in the clothing department, a clerk is showing aprospective customer a suit and telling him to “just picture yourself init, walking briskly,” when suddenly the suits starts walking—andtalking—by itself. And, not content with simply walking, it starts into aHighland fling! The customer flees in panic, while the clerk hurriedly

calls Mr. Massey. By the time the boss arrives on the scene, the suit islying on the floor, leaving the clerk to defend himself from Mr.Massey’s charge that “You’ve been sampling spirits! From a bottle!”

But elsewhere, as a man is contemplating the purchase of a dress forhis wife, with a female clerk’s assurance that “It will animate her,” thedress does indeed suddenly become animated, and even attempts todance with the customer.

A cry of help reaches Billy’s ears, and a quick “Shazam!” bringsCaptain Marvel onto the scene. He punches the dress, whilecommenting that it is the “First time I ever fought a wire dummy.”

After finding nothing more than wire and metal, Cap changes backto Billy, who notes that the incident “seems to have scared mosteveryone out of the store, too, except this store Santa Claus,” whocheerfully wishes Billy a “Merry Christmas.” Customers flee the store,vowing never to come back, while Mr. Massey laments that “Business isbeing ruined! What is that phantom? How can it be stopped?”

Meanwhile, Billy continues trying to fill Mr. Morris’s shopping listin the hardware department, while Steamboat spots a dummy displayand starts to snap a picture—when the dummy abruptly comes to life.Steamboat calls out a warning to Billy as the dummy is about to hithim with a hammer, bringing forth another quick “Shazam!” from Billyand the return of Captain Marvel, who wonders aloud that

The Phantom OfThe Department StoreAn Early Captain Marvel Yuletide Yarn

by John G. Pierce Edited by P.C. Hamerlinck

CC

Well, Cap And Santa Do Wear Similar Color Schemes….Splash of “Captain Marvel and the Phantom of the Department Store,” from Captain Marvel Adventures #19 (Jan. 1943). Art by the C.C. Beck art staff.

[©2007 DC Comics.]

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