8 29 12 0204 063341 cr12-2025 transcript by rjc leslie r ocrd a9

7/28/2019 8 29 12 0204 063341 CR12-2025 Transcript by RJC Leslie R OCRd A9

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5 IN THE JUSTICE COURT OF THE STATE OF NEVADA6 IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF WASHOE7 THE HONORABLE PETER SFERRAZZA, JUSTICE OF THE PEACE8 - - 000 - -

9STATE OF NEVADA Case No. RCR2011 -063341

10Plaintiff D e p t . No. 2

11 va .12 ZACHARY BARKER COUGHLIN,13 Defendan t .14

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APPEARANCES:17

For t he Plaintiff:181920 F o r t h e D e f e n d a n t :

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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGSTRIALWEDNESDAY AUGUST 2 9 2 0 1 2

Mr . Zach Young Esq.Depu ty D i s t r i c t At t o r n eyOne Sou th sierra S t r e e tReno, N evada 89520Mr. James Le s l i e Esq.Deputy Pub l i c Defende r350 S . Cen t e r Street 5 t h F l o o rReno, N evada 89520

JAVS ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED)24 T r a n s c r i b e d By: Le s l i e R.

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J NICHOLOAS DURALDE

4 BY: Mr YoungBY: Mr L e s l i e

5NATHANIEL ZARATE

6BY: Mr Young

7 BY: Mr L e s l i e8 ORY GOBLE

BY M r YoungBY Mr Les l i e10

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12EXHIBITS: NONE MARKED

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DIRECT CROSS

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Admi t ted i n t oEVIDENCE

. P l e a s e n o t e - a f t e r r e w i n d i n g and l i s t e n i n g to the a u d i o16 s e v e r a l t im e s , I st ll c o u l d not c o m p le te ly d i s c e r n t h e r e c o r d

in many i n s t a n c e s . 17 Also n o t e - p a r t i a l t r a n s c r i p t o f p r o c e e d in g s , where in18 F a r e t t a canvas was h e l d , in whi ch t h o s e p o r t i o n s were p r e s e r v e d

and s e a l e d by the Court19

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-000-

3 RENO NEVADA, WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 29, 2012 , 9 : 1 0 A.M.4 - 000-

56 THE COURT: - - pretrial brief entitled M o t i o n f o r7 Summary Judgment which was un t ime ly f i l e d by Mr. Coughl in8 p e r s o n a l l y pr o s e .9 it.

I d o n t know if counse l rece i ved a copy o f

10 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor t h a t - - MR LESLIE: Your Honor which c a s e a r e we here on?12 Are we h e r e on t h e g r o s s misdemeanor , o r t h e p e t t y l a r c e n y13 trial?4 THE COURT: I unde r s tood w e r e he re on the pe t t y

15 l a r c e n y trial. And - -16 MR. LESLIE : I can speak to t h a t c a s e .17 Mr. Dogan i s he re on t he g r o s s misdemeanor , and I18 t h i n k that you had s e t t h e g r o s s m i s d e m e a n o r t o d a y , a s w el l .19 MR . YOUNG: Yeah. We re on MSC fo r the gross20 misdemeanor , that s - - that s t h e o n l y i s s u e we have wi t h

21 r e s p e c t to t h a t c a s e . So I would a s k t h a t we call t h a t c a s e22 first, and t h a t s h o u l d j u s t t a k e a m a t t e r o f s econds , and t h e n23 move o n t o t h e l a r c e n y c a s e .24 THE COURT ; Yeah. I a p o l o g i z e . I do h a v e a se c o n d

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1 file, which would nor mal l y no t be my case , bu t - - and that s2 t he un lawfu l use of emergency t e l ephone number?3

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MR YOUNG: C o r r e c t .THE COURT: AndTHE DEFENDANT: I o b j e c t to t h i s

6 speak ing , be ing p i cked up on mie( con t inues

7 MR YOUNG: Well , Your Honor , I had f i l e d a mot ion8 back on J u l y 30, 2012 f o r l e a v e of c o u r t to amend t he compla in t9 to change it f rom a gr os s misdemeanor o r misuse o f 911, to a

10 misdemeanor r e s i s t i n g .11 On Monday t he - - wi t h t he p u r p o r t e d p l e a n e g o t i a t i o n s12 I had f il ed an amended c r i mi n a l compla in t cha r g ing d i s t u r b i n g13 t h e p e a c e .1 .1516

I f you r e c a l l t h a t d i d not go t h r o u g h .THE COURT:

MR YOUNG:

And t h a t was s t r i c k e n .

And t h a t was s t r i c k e n .So w e r e back to t he o r i g i n l compla in t on 911

17 so we still need to add r e s s the mot ion .And

1 So that s t he on l y t h i n g I as k t h a t we do today , I19 have not seen an o p p o s i t i o n , I d o n t know if t h e r e w i l l be one .20 But if that s

21 THE COURT: Any o b j e c t i o n t hen to t he amending t h e22 o r i g i n a l compla in t to t he misdemeanor c h a r g e ?23 MR LESLIE: Your Honor , we have no o b j e c t i o n from24 t he compla in t . C o u r t s i ndu lgence? I m s o r r y , Your Honor .

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Your Honor we have no o b j e c t i o n .THE COURT: A l l right.

We l l , d o e s h e n e e d t o be a r r a i g n e d on t h e amen d ed4 c r i m i n a l c o m p l a i n t ?5 THE DEFENDANT: I f I may j u s t e n t e r f o r the r eco r d ,6 Y o u r H o n o r , that s n o t w h at I told my c o u n s e l just n o w.7 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , he h a s an a t t o r n e y , I d ask8 that he a d d r e s s t h e C o u r t t h r o u g h h i s a t t o r n e y _9 THE COURT: I don t know why t he district a t t o r n e y

10 even has to move y mot ion to amend but i s itMR. YOUNG: I don t. But I d i d it f o r purposes o f

12 t h e r e c o r d and to make it c l e a n e r , Your Honor .13

14THE COURT: Okay.THE DEFENDANT:

15 effect that an MSC h a s

Your Honor my p o i n t i s more to t hehas some b e n e f i t to a de f endan t , as

16 do e a r l i e r case conf e r ences and a s s e s s c o n f e r e n c e s . I w i sh to17 t ake advan tage o f t hose b e n e f i t s . But in o r d e r to do so I need18 to be n o t i c e d on t h e s e h e a r i n g s . I have not been n o t i c e d on19 t he pa s t two h e a r i n g s f o r which t he p u b l i c de f ende r - -20

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THE COURT: S i r , y o u r e he r e , and you were n o t i c e d .

THE DEFENDANT: Well y e s t e r d a y I was h e r e . But22 August 6 t h and August 22nd I was n o t . Linda Gray of the Pub l ic23 D e f e n d e r S Off i ce admi t t ed t h a t t he r e was a conf us ion r ega r d ing4 what my addr e s s was no f a u l t o f my own t he letters w e r e n t

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1 m i s s i n g2 THE COURT; Sir, w e r e t a l k i n g a b o u t t o d a y , y o u r e3 h e r e t o d a y .

THE DEFENDANT; I m h e r e t o d a y f o r a trial a s you5 THE COURT; T h a t s t h e s e c o n d m a t te r , y o u r e h e r e6 t o d a y on this o n e f o r an a r r a i g n m e n t o r w e l l , actually f o r7 an MSC.8

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THE DEFENDANT; Your H o n o rTHE COURT: If you w an t to p r o c e e d w i t h t h e f e l o n y ,

10 sir, it s perfectly f i n e w i t h me a s o p p o s e d to a m i s d e m e a n o r .11

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THE DEFENDANT:THE COURT: Huh?THE DEFENDANT:

P o i n t t a k e n , Your Honor .

I u n d e r s t a n d , Your H o n o r , it s to my14 b e n e f i t f o r n o t t o be a f e l o n y , b u t

15 THE COURT: On t h e g r o s s m i s d e m e a n o r , I a p o l o g i z e .16 THE DEFENDANT: u n d e r s t o o d , Your Honor .17 My p o i n t , I g u e s s , is that t h e r e m i g h t b e some - -18 some a v e n u e t o c h a l l e n g e a menu at this p o i n t that w o u l d n t19 m i r r o r t o my benefit, p e r h a p s that s o v e r l a w y e r i n g it, you20 just - - b e s t to let it to b e2 THE COURT: I t h i n k it definitely is.22 THE DEFENDANT: Okay.23 THE COURT: If you - - ( i n a u d i b l e ) it, you w i l l n o t24 o n l y d i s m i s s it a n d refile, there s many ways t h e D c o u l d do

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1 t h i s .2 THE DEFENDANT: I ll heed your adv ice in t h a t r ega r d ,3 Your Honor .

THE COURT: But t h e t h ing i s you a r e e i t h e r5 r e p r e s e n t e d , o r y o u r e no t , s i r , and I t a l k e d to you abou t t h i s6 b e f o r e .7 I f you want to r ep r e sen t y o u r s e l f , we can do a8 Fa r e t t a canvas , you can do t h a t , bu t you c a n t have it bo t h9 ways e i t h e r you have counse l , o r you d o n t .

10 THE DEFENDANT: I ag r ee , Your Honor and I t h ink it e11 a shame t h a t the p u b l i c d e f e n d e r s o f f i c e r e s o u r c e s a r e sp r ead12 so t h in , and t h a t the c o u n t y s district a t t o r n e y seek ing to - -13 o f the 6 th Amendment f u r t h e r t han t h i s e a r l y case r e s o l u t i o n14 p r o c e s s t h a t t h e Y v e e n t e r i n t o . The151617

THE COURT:MR YOUNG:

THE COURT:

I d o n t t h inkYour Honor - -I s a i d e i t h e r you r e p r e s e n t you r s e l f o r

18 you have c o u n s e l . Which i s it, s i r ?19 THE DEFENDANT: Well , as t h i n g s c u r r e n t l y s t a n d20 sometimes it seems as though it s it s i t s a b i t of

21 bo th , when the p u b l i c de f ende r i s i s asked to take on so22 many c a s e s .23 THE COURT: It s not a b i t of bo th , it s up to you.24 And I want to c l a r i f y t h i s b e f o r e we go any f u r t h e r , because

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1 I if you c o n t i n u a l l y interject in t h e p r o c e e d i n g s , I am2 g o i n g t o f i n d you in c o n t e m p t o f C o u r t .3 So if y o u w an t t o r e p r e s e n t yourself, I will c o n d u c t4 a F a r e t t a c a n v a s , w e l l go f rom t h e r e , if you want to have5 c o u n s e l r e p r e s e n t you , that s f i n e , and if you want to6 represent yourself a n d h a v e c o u n s e l t o b e s t a n d b y c o u n s e l , that7 w i l l b e o k a y , a s w e l l if f i nd t h a t y o u r e a b l e to8 represent yourself.

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THE DEFENDANT: I would l i k t h a t c o - c o u n s e l .MR. LESLIE: Your Honor , we need to be h e a r d on t h a t

11 b e f o r e12 MR YOUNG: And, Your H o n o r , if I may, I t h o u g h t this13 on t h e 911 c a s e was g o in g to t a k e two s e c o n d s , t h a t was14 certainly my intent. We have trial on t he l a r c e n y c a s e .

15 I would ask t h a t we j u s t s e t t h i s MSC o u t f o r a16 m o t io n s h e a r i n g , t h a t way t he Cour t can a d d r e s s my mot ion to17 amend and any m o t io n s t h e y have , I want to g e t g o in g on t h i s18 trial.19 THE DEFENDANT; We ve a l r e a d y a g r e e d to t he mot ion t o20 amend to

21 THE COURT: No, sir. T h a t s no t c l e a r to me a t all.22 So we a r e go i ng t o c o n t i n u e t h i s m a t t e r .23 When do you wan t to c o n t i n u e ?

MR. YOUNG; I w i l l d e f e r to Cour t and c o u n s e l .

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2THE COURT: I s one week all r i g h t ?THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor , can we c o n t i n u e t o a t

3 l e a s t two weeks? I won t be he re nex t week.4 THE COURT: Okay. Two weeks.5 THE CLERK: What a b o u t S e p t e m b e r 1 8 t h , that s two6 w e e k s , there s a l r e a d y a trial set f o r that d a y f o r7 Mr. C o u g h l i n .8910

THE COURT: How abou t t he nex t week?THE CLERK: I s t h a t okay to go to nex t week?THE DEFENDANT: And Your Honor , j u s t to p o i n t o u t ,

11 that s one o f my - - one of my p o s i t i o n s i s t h a t t h e r e was a12 tr ial s e t at a h e a r i n g f o r which I wasn t e v e r n o t i c e d .13 MR LESLIE: Your Honor , can we g e t a new d a t e f o r14 t h e MSC?15 MR. YOUNG : T h a t s all we need a t t h i s t ime . We need16 a new d a t e .171819

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THE DEFENDANT: It s t e l l i n g t h a t t hey want - -THE COURT: S i r .THE DEFENDANT: I m s o r r y , Your Honor .MR LESLIE: H e s go i ng to ho l d you in con tempt if

21 you I re no t careful.22

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THE DEFENDANT: Okay. Okay.THE COURT: It s Coughl in t h i s i s s e t f o r trial?THE CLERK: No. Th e t h i r d case i s s e t f o r trial.

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3 h e a r i n g .4

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THE COURT;THE CLERK:

THE COURT:

Oh the t h i r d .September 2 5 t h a t 1 0 : 0 0 f o r the mo t i o n

A l l r i g h t .THE DEFENDANT: And Your Honor I do ha v e I do

6 ha v e an a ppo int ment w it h t h e - - so7 THE COURT: Which day?8 THE DEFENDANT: September 25 .

MR LESLIE: I would a s k t h a t some a cco mo da t io n be10 g i ve n 11 THE COURT: Yeah I w i l l accommodate .12 MR YOUNG: I d o n t c a r e .13 THE COURT: But do we have a n o t h e r d a t e ?14 THE CLERK: O ct o ber 2nd.

15 THE COURT: Mr C o u g h l in , O ct o ber 2nd,16 w i t h you?17 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, s i r , t h a t wo rks .18 MR YOUNG: What t i me?I THE COURT: w e l l , w e r e20 MR YOUNG: Okay

21 THE COURT: T h a t s Mr D o g a n s date .22 MR LESLIE: I m wri t ing t down j u s t23 p u r p o se s , t h a t s why I i n t e r j e c t e d , Your Honor .24 w r i t i n g t down a s w e l l .

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i s t h a t f i n e

fo r my ownMr. Dogan i s


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1 THE COURT: t h a t okay?2 THE CLERK: Oct obe r 2nd a t 1 0 : 0 0 .3 MR. YOUNG: hank you.4 THE COURT: Okay. So tha t c a s e i s be ing c o n t i n u e d5 f o r MSC.6 MR. YOUNG: And f o r mot ions h e a r i n g .7 THE COURT: And f o r mot ions h e a r i n g .8 MR. YOUNG: hank you .

THE COURT: And now w e r e oin to start c a s e number10 2 0 1 1 - 0 6 3 3 4 1 . And t h i s i s a trial da t e . And I p r e v i o u s l y d id11 r u l e i n this m a t t e r .12 . LESLIE: Your Honor may I j u s t make a r eco r d of13 so m e t h i n g v e r y q u i c k l y ?4

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THE COURT: Yes.

MR. LESLIE: Two th i n g s .On e , 1 m h a n d i n g Mr. c o u g h l i n a b l a n k pad o f p a p e r

17 and a pen 80 he c a n t a k e n o t e s t h r o u g h t h e s e p r o c e e d i n g s .18,. Number two Mr. Dogan j u s t handed him a - -THE DEFENDANT: A c t u a l l y that s a t t o r n e y / c l i e n t20 p r i v i l e g e , sir.

2 MR. LESLIE: __ of t he d a t e t h a t you were c i t e d f o r22 t h e MSC and t h e m o t i o n s h e a r i n g .23 THE COURT: w e l l , it was c i t e d and - - t h e C o u r t , a s

24 w e l l ?

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THE DEFENDANT; Yes sir.THE COURT; And Mr. Co u g h l in was h e r e .I am g o i n g to i n d i c a t e on t h e r e c o r d , sir t h a t our

4 last c o u r t p r o c e e d i n g , a t one p o i n t you had r e q u e s t e d you5 r e p r e s e n t y o u r s e l f , and s u b s e q u e n t l y when I p r e p a r e d to g i v e6 you a F a r e t t a c a n v a s , you d e c l i n e d , and d e c i d e d to go f o r w a r d7 w i t h c o u n s e l .8 So a t t h i s t i m e I a d v i s e you t h a t you a r e u n d e r t h e9 same r u l e s as any o t h e r p e r s o n in t h i s c o u r t , t h a t you w i l l

10 a d d r e s s t h e Cou r t t h r o u g h y o u r c o u n s e l , no t d i r e c t l y . And if11 you do s o , I w i l l h o ld you n c o n t e m p t of Cour t , u n d e r s t o o d ?12

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THE DEFENDANT: Yes sir Your Honor .Can I s e e k one more p o i n t o f clarification s i r ?THE COURT: You may.

THE DEFENDANT: At an earlier h e a r i n g , I b e l i e v e it16 was t h e O c to b e r 2 8 t h h e a r i n g , and I b e l i e v e t h i s i s law o f t h e1 7 c a s e , I migh t be wrong, b u t t h e Co u r t had i n d i c a t e d you would18 a l l o w me to p r o c e e d a s co c o u n s e l i n t h i s m a t t e r .19 MR YOUNG: T h a t s a m o t io n , Your Honor , t h a t n e e d s20 to be a d d r e s s e d , I would s u b m i t first b e c a u s e t h e r e is a

21 mot ion t o a c t a s co c o u n s e l . I f i l e d an o p p o s i t i o n to t h a t ,22 I I d a s k t h a t we a d d r e s s t h a t first.23

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THE COURT:MR YOUNG:

Al l r i g h t .Because t h a t may h e l p us .

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THE COURT : Okay. There s a mot ion n the file2 t h a t and I do a p o l o g i z e , becaus e I d id go t h rough t h i s3 and - - bu t I t hough t we would be a d d r e s s i n g b e f o r e t he trial4 I have an a u t h o r i z a t i o n to r e p r e s e n t , and t hen I had t he5 mot ion , which was f i l e d by counse l t o s u p p r e s s .6 And f o l l o w i n g t h a t I d i d t h e r e was a mot ion to7 con t inue trial - - w e l l , mot ion to s t r i k e f u g i t i v e document8 which I f o r g o t , t h e r e was a n o t i c e of appea rance and supplement9 to mot ion to s e t a p r e t r i a l mot ions h e a r i n g were un t ime ly .

10 Then t h e r e was a mot ion to s t r i k e t h a t document .And t h e n we had a mot ion to a p p o i n t c o - c o u n s e l , which

12 was f i l e d on Februa r y 21 2012 . And t hen we had t he o p p o s i t i o n13 to mot ion to s u p p r e s s , and t hen we had t he o p p o s i t i o n to mot ion14 to con t inue trial d a t e , and mot ion t o a p p o i n t c o - c o u n s e l .15 And the Cour t , to my knowledge, has no t r u l e d on16 t h a t , becaus e in t he meant ime we had t he - - what I would c a l l17 the mot ion to t r a n s f e r t h i s case to a ment a l h e a l t h c o u r t ,18 t h e r e s a c t u a l l y a d i f f e r e n t case t h a t was t r a n s f e r r e d , bu t it19 was p a r t o f t h a t tr a n s f e r r e d d i s k , and t hen t h e r e was no t a20 r u l i n g on t h a t mot ion .

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So we w i l l a d d r e s s the mot ions in t h i s o r d e r :The mot ion t o a p p o i n t c o - c o u n s e l , t h e n we w i l l do the

23 mot ion to suppr e s s w e l l , I m s o r r y . Then I ll do t he m o t io n24 fo r summary judgment , becaus e t h a t - - I d o n t b e l i e v e t h a t i s a

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1 v a l i d mot i on bu t t h a t w i l l be c o n s i d e r e d second.2 And t hen we w i l l do the mot ion to suppress , and t hen3 w e l l do the tr i a l , i f n e c e s s a r y .4 MR. YOUNG:

5 THE COURT:Very wel l .Al l r i g h t .

6 So let s start wi th mot ion to appo in t co -counse l .7 which t h i s mot ion , as f a r as I can tell, was f i l ed by8 Mr . Goodnight .

MR. LESLIE: Are you r eady?10 THE COURT: S t a t e d s o l e l y on Mr. C o u g h l i n s r e que s t .

And sir, j u s t so it s c l e a r , we d id go t h rough t h i s ,12 and a t one p o i n t I d id o f f e r you the o p t i on to r e p r e s e n t13 y o u r s e l f , and ha v e the p u b l i c de f ende r p r e t t y much s t a n d r i g h t14 nex t to you and you cou ld use him.15 And t h e n j u s t y e s t e r d a y , o r t h e day be f o r e y e s t e r d a y ,16 I m s o r r y , I o f f e r e d you the same op t ion . which e s s e n t i a l ly was17 de c l i ne d .18 But I am w i l l i n g to c o n s i d e r t h i s mot ion t oday . And19 I wi ll no te t ha t the p u b l i c de f ende r says ove r t h e o b j e c t i o n of20 c o u n s e l , Mr. Coughl in r e q u e s t s t h a t you appo in t him a s21 co c o u n s e l .22 So s i n c e i t does appea r t h a t the p u b l i c de f ende r had23 t h i s v iew on t h i s i s s ue , t hen I would a r gue still o f t h a t24 p o s i t i o n

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MR LESLIE: Yes. And I would ask to be hea rd on2 t h a t3 THE COURT: Al l r i g h t .4 Well why d o n t we do t h i s : F i r s t o f all,5 Mr. Cough l i n addr e s sed me as to why he wants to a c t as6 co -counse l , and maybe you can s t a t e your p o s i t i o n , and t h e n we7 w i l l hea r from Mr. Young.8

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MR YOUNG: Very wel l .THE DEFENDANT: Yes sir, Your Honor t hank you.J u s t to - - j u s t to seek to go forward , my

11 u n d e r s t a n d i n g i s t ha t the Cour t j u s t r e c e n t l y r e p r e s e n t e d t h a t12 y e s t e r d a y I r e f u s e d an op t ion to appea r as co -counse l , t h a t13 w a s n t my u n d e r s t a n d i n g .14 My u n d e r s t a n d i n g was the cho ice was be tween having

15 no __ no i n p u t from the p u b l i c de f ende r , and be ing my own s o l e16 c o u n s e l . It s the co - counse l a r r angemen t t ha t I f i n d17 d e s i r a b l e 18 Because Mr. L e s l i e s the c h i e f p u b l i c de f ende r , h e s19 someone who has a ver y h i gh r ega r d in the l e g a l community f o r20 the acumen of which he b r i n g s to the t a b l e in cr im i na l de f ense

21 r e p r e s e n t a t i o n .22 That be ing s a id , h e s - - he j o t s h i s paycheck from23 the same e n t i t y t h a t employs t h e district a t t o r n e y . The24 district a t t o r n e y had a r o l e in p i c k i n g Mr. B o s l e r . It s

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1 something t h a t s i nhe r e n t n the bo th p u b l i c de f ende r o f f i c e s2 t h r o u g h o u t the coun t r y i s t ha t t h e r e s somewhat of a tough l i n e3 t ha t the p u b l i c de f ende r has to s t r a d d l e .4 I seek to ba lance t ha t by appea r ing as co - c o u n s e l .S At t imes Mr. L e s l i e s uncomfor t ab l e making some arguments I6 wish to make a co - counse l a r r angemen t would a l l o w me to make7 those arguments with , I b e l i e v e , an a l lowance f o r Mr. L e s l i e8 not to o b j e c t , and make any arguments h e s uncomfor t ab l e with .9 I d o n t b e l i e v e he would be in any way v i o l a t i n g any r u l e s o f

10 p r o f e s s i o n a l conduc t n so do ing .C e r t a i n l y i he f inds t ha t I m comm i tt ing pe r ju r y ,

12 or - - or pr e s e n t ing f r aud on the Cour t , t he r e s s t e ps he can13 t ake to withdraw.14 But a t t h i s p o i n t , I t h i n k a l l the d i s ag r eemen ts a r e15 j u s t mai n l y ove r t a c t i c a l meas ur es .16 And I v e done a f a i r amount of r e s e a r c h n t h i s17 r ega r d - - i n c i d e n t to which a c l i e n t i s a b l e to c o n t r o l t h e18 means and o b j e c t i v e s o f a l i t i g a t i o n v e r s e i s the t a c t i c s19 t aken o r chosen to pur sue those o b j e c t i v e s .20 My unde r s tand ing though p r e v i o u s l y was t ha t t h i s21 Cour t d i d r u l e in t ha t it s law of the case , and I22 r e s p e c t f u l l y I could be wrong he r e , Your Honor s t h a t you had3 i n d i c a t e d you would a l l o w im to appea r as c o - c o u n s e l in t h i s4 case . And I m pr e s e n t ing to t h i s Cour t a t t h i s t ime , as I

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1 b e l i e v e I v e done p r e v i o u s l y i n my mot ion to appea r as2 co - counse l t h a t , I - - that s something t h a t I wish to do.3 And - -4 THE COURT: Well , my prob lem i s t h i s , sir: The case5 i s a l mos t unmanageable when you i n t e r j e c t , and no t on ly6 i n t e r j e c t , bu t demean your c o u n s e l o r i n c ou r t . And t h a t7 w i t h o u t even t a l k i n g to him somet imes , sometimes y o u r e t a l k i n g8 to him sometimes you j u s t jump up.9 And the on ly way t h a t I would p e r m i t you to a c t as

10 co - counse l would be you would be t he p r i n c i p a l counse l , would11 make all d e c i s i o n s , and t hen if t h e r e was something which was12 a f t e r y u c o n s u l t e d wi t h him t hen we have the r i g h t t o a d v i s e13 you even on t he r eco r d , t h a t h e s a d v i s i n g y u no t to s peak on14 t h a t . And t h e n if you chose to speak you cou ld do s o , bu t t he

15 prob lem i s it would be a g a i n s t the a d v i c e o f c o u n s e l .16 And I would still l i k e to do a F a r e t t a canvas even if17 you I t h i n k it would be an r u l y s i t u a t i o n , bu t I m no t18 r u l i n g a t t h i s p o i n t , I m j u s t t e l l i n g you what I t h i n k i s t he19 problem.20 THE DEFENDANT: Yes sir. J u s t to i n t e r j e c t in t h a t21 r ega r d , I t h i n k some o f what y o u r e r e f e r r i n g to I ag r ee ,22 Your Honor . It s it s u n f o r t u n a t e , bu t it s a b i p r o d u c t o f23 hav i ng Mr. L e s l i e be t he s o l e counse l h e r e in to the e x t e n t to24 which it r e a l l y c u r t a i l s my a b i l i t y to d i r e c t my de f ense . And

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1 so we have b u t t e d heads , I ll r e s p e c t f u l l y - - and sir, I have a2 l o t of r e s p e c t f o r Mr. L e s l i e , but it i s a difficult s i t u a t i o n .3 I can tell you you know an a t t o r n e y de fendan t he re4 when t h e r e s t i mes you want to make an a rgument . But um and5 to an e x t e n t y o u r e somewhat p r e v e n t e d f rom do i ng so by hav i ng6 a p u b l i c d e f e n d e r on y o u r c a s e .7 But I t h i n k a l o t of t h a t d i s c o r d t h a t you m e n t io n e d8 would d i s s i p a t e to t he e x t e n t t h a t I m a l lo w e d to p a r t i c i p a t e9 as c o - c o u n s e l to what if you have an u n r u l y c h i l d in g r a d e

10 schoo l c l a s s , and you make him a h a l l moni to r , all o f a sudden11 he f e e l s l i k e he has Borne i nvo l vemen t in s omet h i ng , h e s b e t t e r12 behaved , you know maybe that s an awkward a n a l o g y but I t h i n k13 it s somewhat a c c u r a t e . And I hope what was p r e s e n t e d t o you14 b e f o r e , e a r l y t h i s morning, a l t h o u g h it15 MR. YOU : I d ob j e c t a t t h i s p o i n t in re f e r e n c i n g16 t he summary j udgment mot ion .17181920

THE COURT: I m go i ng to s u s t a i n t he o b j e c t i o n .THE DEFENDANT: P r e t r i a l b r i e f .MR. YOUNG: I o b j e c t t o t h a t as w e l l .THE COURT: Al l w e r e t a l k i n g abou t i s whet he r o r n o t

21 you s h o u l d be c o - c o u n s e l . So - -

THE DEFENDANT: w e l l , and t he on ly manner in which I

23 wish to r e f e r e n c e t h a t was I hope f rom - - from t h i s it d i s p l a y s24 a prog r e s s i o n on my p a r t t o w a r d s it s no t as l ong , it s

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1 some from my p a s t v i o l e n c e , I hope t h a t t he t one and t he2 e t i m i n e of it d e m o n s t r a t e s a r e a l p r o g r e s s i o n and a moving3 towards what t h i s Cour t would l i k e to s ee from me.

5

6

THE COURT:

Mr. L e s l i e ?MR. LESLIE:

Al l r i g h t .

Your Honor I a n t i c i p a t e t h e s e7 p r o c e e d i n g s w i l l be l ong , and I mean no d i s r e s p e c t to t he8 Cour t , would you mind if I s a t whi l e I p r e s e n t e d my arguments?9 THE COURT: No.

10 MR LESLIE: Thank you.11 Your Honor I would p o i n t to t he mot ion t h a t12 Mr. Goodnight f i l e d on Page 2 t h i s i s t he mot ion to appo in t13 c o - c o u n s e l .14 On Page 2 t h e r e ' s a s h o r t p o i n t s and a u t h o r i t i e s .15 And I would high l i g h t f o r you a t Line 12 and a h a l f , abou t16 ha l f way t h r ough t he sen tence , it beg ins however , t he Cour t may17 a u t h o r i z e t h i s a r r angemen t , and t hen it goes on to quo t e some18 l anguage .1 9 What it e s s e n t i a l l y s ays i s t h a t t he Cour t may in20 its d i s c r e t i on if it b e l i e v e s t h a t it s wise to do so , appo in t21 co counse l , appo in t t h e d e f e n d a n t h i m s e l f as c o - c o u n s e l .22 I f t he Cour t b e l i e v e s t h e r e ' s a s u b s t a n t i a l23 showing so if in your wisdom you t h ink it has been24 s u b s t a n t i a l l y shown and demons t r a t ed th roughou t t he cou r se of

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1 the se p r oceed ings t h a t t he caus e of j u s t i c e would , in f a c t , be2 s e r v e d by hav i ng Mr. Cough l i n as c o - c o u n s e l , and if you f u r t h e r3 b e l i e v e t h e r e s a s u b s t a n t i a l showing t h a t t he o r d e r l y and4 e x p e d i t i o u s conduc t of t he C o u r t s b u s i n e s s in t h i s case w i l l5 not be s u b s t a n t i a l l y h inde r ed , hampered, or de layed by hav i ng6 Mr. Cough l i n as c o - c o u n s e l .7 a p p o i n t him as co c o u n s e l .

Then you have t he d i s c r e t i o n to

8 I , in all candor to t h e Cour t , and I am an o f f i c e r of9 t he Cour t , I would c i t e to t h e e x t e n s i v e r e c o r d in t h i s case ,

10 t h e p r o c e e d i n g s as t hey e x i s t e d even b e f o r e I t ook11 r e p r e s e n t a t i o n of the case . I would har ken back to Monday s12 p r o c e e d i n g s , which took an hour and 45 mi nu t es and accomp l i s h e d13 n o t h i n g . And I would har ken to t he v a r i o u s fil in gs th a t14 Mr. c o u g h l i n has a t t empted to make in t h i s c a s e .15 And wi th a l l due r e s p e c t to Mr. c o u g h l i n and h i s16 p r o g r e s s i n t he t one and t he c o n t e n t of h i s f u g i t i v e documents ,17 I do no t b e l i e v e t h a t t he caus e of j u s t i c e would be s e r v e d by18 hav i ng him a s c o - c o u n s e l , and I f e e l c o m f o r t a b l e g u a r a n t e e i n g19 t h a t t h e s e proceed in gs w i l l no t p roceed in an o r d e r l y and20 e x p e d i t i o u s f a s h i o n , and I do not b e l i e v e t h a t t he C o u r t s21 b u s i n e s s in t h i s case wi ll be a n y t h i n g o t h e r th a n h inde r ed ,22 hampered, and de layed .23 Now, I s t a n d ready , w i l l i n g and a b l e to r e p r e s e n t him24 to t he b e s t of my abilities which I t h i n k f r a n k l y a r e b e t t e r

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1 t han h i s abilities, as demons t r a t ed by t he r eco r d in t h i s c a s e .2 t h i n k t h e c h o i c e f o r him i s s i mpl y t h i s : I s he3 go i ng to a l l o w h i s counse l to r e p r e s e n t him? Or i s he go i ng to4 F a r e t t a ou t o f t h a t a r r angemen t and r e p r e s e n t h imse l f ?56

In t h i s case I w i l l g i v e him my e x h i b i t s , and t heo t h e r document s t h a t he ll need to conduc t t h e trial, many of

7 which h e s a l r e a d y been p r o v i d e d .8 And I w i l l ask t he C o u r t s p e r m i s s i o n upon him be ing9 g r a n t e d pe r mis s ion to r e p r e s e n t h i m s e l f , I w i l l ask to be

10 r e l i e v e d and to be excus ed from t he p r o c e e d i n g s .But I r e a l l y t h i n k , Judge , in all candor and in all

12 h o n e s t y , and as an o f f i c e r of the Cour t , if you a p p o i n t him as13 co - counse l t h i s w i l l be a c i r c u s , and that s my p o s i t i o n .14 THE COURT: Mr. Young?

15 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor t h a t was t he e x a c t word I was16 go i ng to use , i s t h i s would be an a b s o l u t e c i r c u s if17 Mr. Cough l i n i s - - and I say t h i s r e s p e c t f u l l y , a p p o i n t e d as18 c o - c o u n s e l .19 The mot ions f i l e d by t he p u b l i c d e f e n d e r s o f f i c e , by20 Mr. Goodnight , you n o t i c e it c i t e s all C a l i f o r n i a c a s e s , and it21 c i t e s two F a r e t t a s , bu t t he quo te s a r e from a c a l i f o r n i a c a s e .223 Cour t .

24

Obvi ous l y , that s no t b ind ing a u t h o r i t y on t h i sYou can c e r t a i n l y c o n s i d e r it, bu t it s not b i n d i n g .

The case s which t he S t a t e s i t e s in its o p p o s i t i o n a r e

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Nevada Supreme Co u r t o p i n i o n s t h a t i s b i n d i n g a u t h o r i t y on t h i s2 C o u r t . And if you 'd look a t y oppos i t i on to motion fo r3 c o - c o u n s e l4 THE COURT: One s e c o n d , Mr. Young b e c a u s e I l o s t t h e5 page I was looking a t which page are you r e f e r r i n g to in6 y o u r brief?7 MR. YOUNG:8 Your Honor - -9

10THE COURT:MR. YOUNG:

Well , if you l o o k at my o p p o s i t i o n ,

I have y o u r o p p o s i t i o n .Look a t Page t h e r e was a m o t i o n to

11 c o n t i n u e , that's moot , b e c a u s e w e ' r e a l r e a d y p a s t t h a t d a t e .12 So if you go to Page 5 which i s my s u b s e c t i o n B13 a rgument , entitled t h e d e f e n d a n t s h o u l d n o t b e a l l o w e d to a c t14 a s co c o u n s e l .15 THE COURT: I do have Lay ton v S t a t e .16 MR. YOUNG: C o r r e c t . La y t o n v S t a t e s a y s v e r y17 c l e a r l y q u o t e , if t h e d e f e n d a n t e l e c t s to h a v e c o u n s e l , he has18 no r i g h t to r e p r e s e n t h i m s e l f , t h a t is b i n d i n g a u t h o r i t y f rom19 t h e Nevada Supreme Cour t .20 a s c a n b e .

I t i s unambiguous. I t i s as c l e a r

2And you n o t i c e t h a t t h e r e i s a m o t i o n to strike,

22 which I f i l e d on F e b r u a r y 2 1 s t , and I i n c o r p o r a t e all t h o s e23 a rguments by r e f e r e n c e i n t o this. Th a t c a s e g o e s on to s a y24 t o f u r t h e r hammer home t h e p o i n t , on Page 3 o f t h a t , I cite

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1 Wheby W-h-e-b-y , v Warden and t ha t says t h a t the Nevada2 Supreme Cour t has quo t e p r e v i o u s l y d e t e r m i n e d t h a t a l t h o u g h a3 c r i mi n a l de f endan t may have bo t h the r i g h t of se l f4 r e p r e s e n t a t i o n , and a r i g h t to a s s i s t a n c e of counse l , t h i s does5 no t mean t h a t a d e f e n d a n t i s e n t i t l e d to have h i s case6 p r e s e n t e d i n c o u r t by bo th h i m s e l f and by counae l a c t i n g a t the7 same t ime a l t e r n a t i v e l y a t the de f e nda n t ' s p l e a s u r e s . 8 And I go on on Pages 4 and 5 to p o i n t out all the

9 pr ac t i c a l problems t ha t cou ld a r i s e if the Cour t a l lows a10 co - counse l r e l a t i o n s h i p .

And it - - it c r e a t e s an a b s o l u t e mess in a whole l o t12 o f r e g a r d s . The Ryhne case , R- h - y - n - e , v S t a t e , s t a t e s aga in13 Nevada Supreme Cour t c a s e , s t a t e s whi l e the c l i e n t may make14 de c i s ions r e g a r d i n g the u l t i m a t e o b j e c t i v e s of r e p r e s e n t a t i o n s ,

15 the trial l awyer a lone i s e n t r u s t e d wi th d e c i s i o n s r e g a r d i n g16 l e g a l t a c t i c s .17 So what i s made c l e a r by t h e s e t h r e e case s?18 Again b i n d i n g a u t h o r i t y f rom the Ne v ada Supreme19 Cour t i s t h a t Mr. cough l in has the r i g h t the r e p r e s e n t h i ms e l f ,20 o r a l t e r n a t i v e l y to be r e p r e s e n t e d by counse l , which i s t h e

21 case here .And i f t h a t c o n t r o l s , which a g a i n i s our c u r r e n t

22 p o s i t i o n t h a t Mr . L e s l i e c o n t r o l s all l e ga l t a c t i c s , and that s3 what he s e n t r u s t e d to do.

24 And so the t hough t o f even a l lowing him to a c t as

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c o - c o u n s e l , one , would pu t a huge wrench n t o t h i s s p e c i f i c2 c a s e .3 It is a l s o c o m p l e t e l y r e j e c t e d by t he Nevada Supreme4 C o u r t .

5 So I would ask t h a t you deny t he mot ion to ac t as6 c o - c o u n s e l .7 I would ask t h a t you - - t h e r e i s no o p p o s i t i o n f i l e d ,8 bu t t he mot ion to s t r i k e f u g i t i v e documents a r i s e I f i l e d9 t h a t b e c a u s e I keep g e t t i n g f a x e s , and t h e l i k e , f rom

10 Mr. C o u g h l i n directly n o t f r o m h i s a t t o r n e y , b u t f rom11 Mr. Coughl i n , s e n d i n g to me t h e s e hundreds o f p a g e s o f12 d o c u m e n t s an d a t t a c h m e n t s an d exhibits which f r a n k l y I d o n t13 even h a v e t ime t o r e a d in full.14 And one o f them Mr. T u t t l e , wi th the c o u r t15 a d m i n i s t r a t o r , a d v i s e d v i a an e - m a i l t h a t it was g o in g to be16 filed.17

T h a t s wha t l e d me t o file t h e m o t i o n t o strike.So I would s u b m i t t h a t all p l e a d i n g s f i l e d by n o t

18 Mr. C o u g h l i n s a t t o r n e y , b u t Mr. Co u g h l in h i m s e l f , all be19 s t r i c k e n a s f u g i t i v e d o c u m e n t s , b e c a u s e h e s had an a t t o r n e y .20 R e s p e c t f u l l y , Judge , t h e r e s a c t u a l l y no b a s i s to a l l o w him t o

21 a c t as co - c o u n s e l .22 MR LESLIE: And Your Honor , I - - I j u s t want to23 make s u r e t h a t I m f o l l o w i n g y o u r i n s t r u c t i o n s . I t h i n k you24 w a n t e d t o h e a r comment on t h e c o - c o u n s e l a p p o in tm e n t m o t i o n

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1 first. I d i d no t mean to n e g l e c t comment on the f u g i t i v e2 document s i s s ue , bu t I u n d e r s t o o d we would be d e a l i n g wi t h3 co - counse l i s s ue s first.

56

7 word.

THE COURT:MR LESLIE:THE COURT:

Well , I w i l l a l l o w you to add r e s s t h a tAt some p o i n t , okay

I w i l l a l low Mr. Cough l i n j u s t a b r i e f

8 Any l e g a l a u t h o r i ty you have from your p o s i t i o n bas ed9 on what Mr. Young has i n d i c a t e d - - p r e t t y much t h a t I d o n t

10 even have d i s c r e t i o n to a l low y u to do what y u want to do.11

12So go ahead, Mr. L e s l i e .MR LESLIE: Well , my r e p l y on t h a t p a r t i c u l a r i s s u e

13 i s t h a t I t h ink y u do have d i s c r e t i o n .14 But I t h ink t h a t , as I a r t i c u l a t e d b e f o r e , I t h i n k - -15 I t h i n k it would be an unwise e x e r c i s e o f your d i s c r e t i o n fo r16 the r e a s o n s t h a t I s t a t e d b e f o r e .17 And if your r o l e as the j udge in t h i s case i s to18 m a i n t a i n an o r d e r l y p r o c e e d i n g of trial and to see t h a t19 j u s t i c e i s done and to see t h a t t he p u b l i c has r e a s o n a f t e r20 v i ewi ng t h e s e p r o c e e d i n g s , and - - and be ing ab le to come back

21 l a t e r and view t he p u b l i c r e c o r d of t h e s e p r o c e e d i n g s , if all22 o f those t h i n g s a r e t r ue , and I t h i n k t hey a r e , and I t h i n k y u23 would ag r ee , t hen one does wonder whet he r it migh t a r guab ly be24 an abuse o f d i s c r e t i o n to g r a n t the co - counse l r e q u e s t o f

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1 Mr. Coughl in in l i g h t of h i s demons t r a t ed b e h a v i o r in t e rms of2 t he f i l i n g s , and in t e rms of h i s in c o u r t b e h a v i o r .3 you know I r e s p e c t h i s d e s i r e to want to be a4 c o - c o u n s e l , I t h i n k t h a t u n f o r t u n a t e l y what h e s done i s shown5 ove r t ime t h a t he canno t a c t as co - counse l wi thou t be ing6 any th ing o t h e r t han d i s r u p t i v e t o t h e p r o c e e d i n g s .7 And so it s my p o s i t i o n y u have t he d i s c r e t i o n .8 It s a d i s c r e t i o n a r y calIon your p a r t . It s our p o s i t i o n , as9 I a r t i c u l a t e d , and as I t h i n k we s t a t e d in the mot ion , t h a t y u

10 shou ld no t e xe r c i s e t h a t d i s c r e t i o n , and you shou ld g i v e him11 the cho ice of r e p r e s e n t i n g h i m s e l f , p u r s u a n t to F a r e t t a , o r12 pro c ee d in g wi t has s i g ned c 0 un s e I13 THE COURT: Well , I d o n t know if you g ive him a14 cho ice , bu t I would have to still do a F a r e t t a canvas .

15 MR LESLIE: T h a t s what I meant to say , yes .16 THE COURT: To make t he d e t e r mi n a t i o n .17 MR LESLIE: Yes. And he may o r may no t be q u a l i f i e d18 under F a r e t t a , I l e a v e t h a t to t he Cour t .19 THE COURT: Okay. Mr. Cough l i n , I m go i ng to a l low20 you to b r i e f l y r e spond , and I mean v e r y b r i e f l y , sir.

2122

THE DEFENDANT: Yes sir, Your Honor .I b e l i e v e it s t e l l i n g the way Mr. Young p r e s e n t e d , I

23 b e l i e v e it s the Lay ton case he r e , as b i n d i n g manda to ry24 a u t h o r i t y to t h i s Cour t .

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~ ~ ~

1 I b e l i e v e t h a t in some r e g a r d i s i s s k i r t i n g on2 t he edge of be ing i n a c c u r a t e in p r e s e n t i n g to t he Cour t3 something o t h e r t han the case . I b e l i e v e it i s d i s c r e t i o n a r y4 to t h i s Cour t , it s no t an a b s o l u t e b r i g h t l i n e r u l e t h a t it s5 no t p e r m i s s i b l e under any c i r cums tances 6 F u r t h e r , I b e l i e v e the p u b l i c de f ende r and t he7 district a t t o r n e y , I ll r e s p e c t f u l l y submi t , a r e c o n f u s i n g8 t h a t , which i s i n c o n v e n i e n t to t hemse lves wi t h it be ing t h a t ,9 which i s p r e j u d i c i a l to t he a d m i n i s t r a t i o n o f j u s t i c e .

10 And I t h i n k t he u l t im a t e i n q u i r y n e g a t e s f a i r n e s s ,11 no t t h a t which i s conven ien t to Mr. L e s l i e o r Mr. Young.12

13

THE COURT:

Well , IAl l r i g h t .

bas ed upon t he e n t i r e r eco r d in t h i s case ,14 sir, I do no t f ind bas ed on t h e p l e a d i n g s you have f i l e d t h a t15 y o u v e mixed c i v i l wi t h c r i mi n a l law you have demons t r a t ed16 some s e r i o u s l a c k o f knowledge in the a r ea of c r i mi n a l l aw and17 I am conce r ned whether I have d i s c r e t i o n o r no t in t h i s ma t t e r ,18 t h a t a l l o w i n g you to p roceed as co - counse l in t h i s case would19 no t on ly be d i s r u p t i v e to t he p r o c e e d i n g s , b u t would be20 i n j u r i o u s to your r e p r e s e n t a t i o n , meaning I b e l i e v e t h a t if you21 do no t have competent counse l r e p r e s e n t i n g you y o u r e l i k e l y22 to make a s e r i o u s mis take in judgment in t h i s case in your23 d e t r i me n t .24 And t h e r e f o r e , I m go i ng to deny t he mot ion to have

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1 you a p p o i n t e d a s co c o u n s e l .2

3

However , if you insist, I w i l l go f o r w a r d , an dc o n d u c t a F a r e t t a c a n v a s , b u t this is t h e last o p p o r t u n i t y y o u

4 h a v e . And if after c o n d u c t i n g t h e F a r e t t a c a n v a s I f i n d that5 y o u a r e c o m p e t e n t to r e p r e s e n t y o u r s e l f , I w o u l d a l l o w you to6 do s o .7 But that is t h e e x t e n t o f w h a t I m w i l l i n g to do .8 you n e e d to tell me now.

TH DEFENDANT: Yes , sir, Your H o n o r .10 And I w i l l just s a y respectfully I I h e a r

So

11 what y o u r e s a y i n g , Your H o n o r , b u t I would like to p r o c e e d a s12 my own c o u n s e l , w i t h just t h e p r e s e n t a t i o n to t h e C o u r t t h a t13 this C o u r t s e e s what - - w h a t is b e f o r e it, an d w h a t s bond to14 it, a n d it d o e s n t s e e w h a t what h a p p e n s i n c l o s e d d o o r s

15 w i t h a t t o r n e y a n d client. And in that r e g a r d what d o e s h a p p e n16 is p a r t o f w h a t s f o r m i n g t h e b a s i s f o r my d e c i s i o n to self17 r e p r e s e n t i n C o u r t .18 I mean no d i s r e s p e c t to t h e C o u r t g i v e n t h e w a r n i n g19 you just g a v e me I w i l l h e e d it carefully, I certainly d o n t20 want to go to jail a g a i n f o r c o m p e t e n t , Your H o n o r , an d it s my21 intent t o p r e s e n t m y s e l f p r o f e s s i o n a l l y h e r e t o d a y .22 THE COURT: So I m n o t c l e a r on w h a t y o u r e s a y i n g .

23 TH DEFENDANT: W e l l , I w o u l d l i k e to if t h e24 c h o i c e s a r e if I o n l y h a v e two b r i g h t l i n e c h o i c e s , have

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1 Mr . L e s l i e be my counse l , o r proceed a f t e r a F a r e t t a canvas as2 my own counse l , I would t ake the latter and p r e c e d e to my own3 c o u n s e l .4 MR LESLIE: Your Honor on t ha t p o i n t , if I may?5 I w i l l go back to what I s a i d Monday t h a t I d o n t6 b e l i e v e I m the i s s ue , I b e l i e v e any a s s i g n e d a t t o r n e y i s the7 i s s u e , and I THE COURT: Well I don t b e l i e ve you are the i s s u e9 e i t h e r .

10 MR LESLIE: I u n d e r s t a n d .11 Mr. Cough l i n has . . bas ed on t h e c o n t i n u i n g12 a l l e g a t i o n s h e has a ga in s t me and in not so many words bu t13 b a s i c a l l y say ing t h a t t h e r e s a c o n f l i c t o f i n t e r e s t , I have a14

15.

17.

20

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memorandum of law t ha t

wou l d wish to r e c e i v eTHE COURT:MR LESLIE:THE COURT:

c i r cums tances a t l e a s td e t e r mi n a t i o n , bu t you

MR LESLIE:MR YOUNG:

I pr epa r ed , and I wonder i the Cour t

t ha t a t t h i s t ime .Tha t would be f i ne .Okay.

I am go ing to have to I b e l i e v e under theconduct a F a r e t t a canvas , and make awant to p r e s e n t t ha t to me now? Or - -Well

Your Honor t h i s may he lp , I m go i ng to23 be o b j e c t i n g to him r e p r e s e n t i n g h i ms e l f .24 THE COURT: wel l , you can do t h a t , bu t I still I

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1 t h i n k h e s entitled to h a v e a F a r e t t a c a n v a s .2 MR. YOUNG: w e l l , that s f i n e , j u s t w a n t e d - -3 b e f o r e you r u l e , I want to be h e a r d .4 THE COURT: Oh y e s , a b s o l u t e l y .5 j u s t want to make s u r e t h a t w e v e done e v e r y t h i n g6 t h a t w e v e a r g u e d7 MR. LESLIE: Wel l , you know t h e r e a s o n would file8 t h e m o t i o n is b a s i c a l l y it s a memorandum o f law, it s no t a5 mot ion , it s a memorandum o f l aw. And it s i m p l y s e t s f o r t h an

10 o b j e c t i v e f a s h i o n so t h e l e g a l a u t h o r i t i e s o f t h e Cour t s h o u l d11 a t l e a s t cons i d e r .12

1314

THE COURT: w e l l , t h e n I w i l l c o n s i d e r them now.Has y o u r c l i e n t r e c e i v e d a c o p y o f t h i s ?MR. LESLIE: I m p r o v i d i n g him a c o p y I p r o v i d e d

lS t h e D a c o p y16 THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor , j u s t in t h a t same r e g a r d ,17 t h e document t h a t I s u b m i t t e d to t h e Cour t t h i s m o r n i n g I d ask18 t h a t t h a t be c o n s i d e r e d a s a memorandum.19 MR. YOUNG: w e l l , we h a v e n t g o t i n t o t h a t i s s u e y e t .

20 MR . LESLIE: I m p r o v i d i n g Mr. Co u g h l in a c o p y .

21 THE COURT: R e g a r d l e s s o f w h a t s b e e n s a i d , I v e22 a c t u a l l y a l r e a d y c o n s i d e r e d it, b e c a u s e I didn t r e a l i z e t h a t23 it had b e e n s u b m i t t e d by you , so I can t wipe it o u t o f my24 mind . So - -

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2

MR. LESLIE: Your Honor , h e s b e e n d e n i e d C O - c o u n se l .And Your Honor , t h e im p o r t and t h e b a s i c c o n t e n t o f

3 t h e memorandum of law I j u s t pr ov ided , and I d ask t h a t it be4 p u t i n t o t h e C o u r t I s file, is b a s i c a l l y wha t I s s t a t e d on5 P a g e 1 .6 I f t h e d e f e n d a n t if any d e f e n d a n t , no t7 Mr. C o u g h l i n . b u t if any d e f e n d a n t asserts a conflict o f8 i n t e r e s t b e t w e e n h i m s e l f o r h e r s e l f a n d a s s i g n e d c o u n s e l , t h e9 Cour t should i n q u i r e as to t h r e e b a s i c prongs of an a n a l y s i s .

10 Number one , what i s t he e x t e n t o f t h a t c o n f l i c t ?Number two, t h e a d e q u a c y o f t h e trial C o u r t I s i n q u i r y

12 i n t o t h e c o m p l a i n t .13 In o t h e r words a in c o u r t w i l l be looked a t14 d i d t h e trial C o u r t a c t u a l l y t r y to make some r e c o r d and

15 de te rmine if t h e r e was n f a c t , a c o n f l i c t .16 And Number t h r e e , t he t i m e l i n e s s o f any mot ion o r17 a s s e r t i o n by t h e d e f e n d a n t o f such a c o n f l i c t o f i n t e r e s t , andIS t he e x t e n t of any i nconven ience o r d e l a y t o t h e p r o c e e d i n g s19 a r i s i n g f rom t h a t a s s e r t i o n by t h e d e f e n d a n t .20 And what t h i s b a s i c a l l y says i s if t h e d e f e n d a n t s o r t21 o f s p r i n g s a c o n f l i c t o f i n t e r e s t upon t he pr oceed ings a t , o r22 s h o r t l y be f o r e trial, t he trial c o u r t shou ld no t a l l ow a23 d e f e n d a n t to d i s r u p t t he pr oceed ings , o r caus e a d e l a y in4 p r o c e e d i n g s .

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If there s a c o n f l i c t , and if, as t h e memorandum g o e s2 on to say , if the c o n f l i c t a r i s e s b a s i c a l l y o r s o l e ly f rom the3 behav io r of the de f endan t h imse l f an d I j u s t - - I4 a n t i c i p a t e d t h a t t h i s migh t o c c u r , I a n t i c i p a t e d b a s e d on h i s5 a s s e r t i o n s o f c o e r c i o n this p a s t Monday, that he m i g h t assert a6 conflict o f interest, I b e l i e v e he h a s d o n e s o .7 And I p r o v i d e d t h i s memorandum o f po in t s anda a u t h o r i t i e s s i mpl y so t he Co u r t has some law to r e f e r to f o r9 the p r o p o s i t i o n t h a t a d e f e n d a n t canno t c la im o r c r e a t e a

10 c o n f l i c t , and the r eby d i s r u p t or de lay the p r o c e e d i n g s .y p o s i t i o n is t h a t , a s t h e Cour t has o b s e r v e d , I

12 would b o r r o w t h e C o u r t s o b s e r v a t i o n , that Mr. C o u g h l i n c a n b e13 difficult a t t i m e s , and I would no t d i s p u t e t h a t , b u t I would14 a s s e r t and a s s u r e t h e Cour t t h a t I v e p u t a g r e a t d e a l o f

15 effort i n t o p r e p a r i n g f o r t o d a y s trial . I m p r e p a r e d to16 p r o c e e d , and it s my i n t e n t i o n , no t w i t h s t a n d i n g h i s b e h a v i o r ,17 t o do t h e b e s t I can f o r him.18 Thank you .19 THE COURT: I m g o in g to t a k e a b r i e f r e c e s s . I d i d20 no t t h i n k t h i s was g o in g to be n e c e s s a r y , b u t I m g o i n g to g e t

21 my F a r e t t a c a n v a s and I ll be r i g h t back .22 s e a t e d , if you would .23

24(Off t h e r e c o r d )Back on t h e r e c o r d )

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THE COURT: Okay We re back on t he r eco r d in the2 case o f Zachar y Cough l i n , and t h i s i s Case Number 2011-063341,3 and t h i s i s t h e c a s e c h a r g i n g t h e d e f e n d a n t wi t h p e t t y l a r c e n y .4 And d u r i n g the r e c e s s I d id g e t a copy of my F a r e t t a5 canvas I use in ca se s such as t h i s .6 And I w i l l adv is e you sir t h a t t he Supreme Cour t7 Rule 253 a p p l i e s , it i s p r i m a r i l y fo r t he district c o u r t s8 i n q u i r y , however t h e r e s been r u l i n g s t h a t t h a t same a n a l y s i s9 shou ld be made in t he j u s t i c e c o u r t to de te rmine whet he r o r no t

10 a p e r s o n s a b l e to r e p r e s e n t themse l f in t he c r i mi n a l ma t t e r .11 And it i s my du ty to i n form you first o f the dange r s12 o f s e l f - r e p r e s e n t a t i o n , and t hen to make an i n q u i r y o f you as13 to your a b i l i t y t o r e p r e s e n t y o u r s e l f .14 And I wi l l first a d v i s e you t h a t s e l f - r e p r e s e n t a t i o n

15 i s o f t e n unwise , and t he de fendan t may conduc t a d e f e n s e to h i s16 o r he r own d e t r i me n t .17 A pro pe r pe r sona d e f e n d a n t i s r e s p o n s i b l e f o r18 knowing and comply ing wi th the same p r o c e d u r a l r u l e s as19 l awyer s , and canno t expec t he lp from the j udge in comply ing20 wi th t h e s e p r o c e d u r a l r u l e s .21 The d e f e n d a n t p r o c e e d i n g in pro pe r pe r sona w i l l no t22 be a l l owed to compla in on appea l abou t t he competency o r23 e f f e c t i v e n e s s of h i s or he r r e p r e s e n t a t i o n .24 The St a t e , on t he o t h e r hand, w i l l be r e p r e s e n t e d by

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expe r ience d , p r o f eSS iona l counse l , w i l l have the advan tage o f2 skill, t r a i n i n g and a b i l i t y .3 A pro pe r pe r sona d e f e n d a n t i s not e n t i t l e d to4 spe c i a l p r i v i l e g e s , which r e a l l y d o e s n t app ly in t h i s case ,5 because you o b v i o u s l y have acces s to the NRS and o the r l e ga l6 documents , you do have your l a p t o p wi th you and have t ha t7 a b i l i t y to do l e g a l r e s e a r c h , and o b v i o u s l y as a l awyer you8 spen t some c o n s i d e r a b l e t ime on t h i s . So I don t t h i n k t ha t9 t h a t p a r t i c u l a r i s s u e e x i s t s in t h i s c a s e .

10 A d e f e n d a n t u n f a m i l i a r wi t h l e g a l pr ocedur e s maya l low the p r o s e c u t o r an advan tage , may not make e f f e c t i v e us e

12 o f l e g a l r i g h t s , and may make t a c t i c a l d e c i s i o n s t ha t produce13 un in t ended consequences .14 And the o t h e r p o i n t i s the e f f e c t i v e n e s s of the

15 de f ense can wel l be d i m i n i s h e d by d e f e n d a n t s d u a l r o l e as an16 a t t o r n e y and the accused . I b e l i e v e you ve hea r d the17 e x p r e s s i o n a pe r son who r e p r e s e n t s themse l f has a f oo l f o r a18 c l i e n t , and that s what that s all abou t .19 Now, I m go i ng to ask you a s e r i e s of q u e s t i o n s to20 de te rmine your a b i l i t y .2 Wh e re in F a r e t t a canvas pr oceed ings were he ld , and22 t hey were p r e s e r v e d and sea led ) .23 MR. YOUNG: Yes Your Honor . And I m p r e p a r e d t o go24 forward wi th the mot ion to suppress , the S t a t e would c a l l

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1 O f f i c e r D u r a l d e .2 MR. LESLIE: Your Honor , I I d ask t h a t t h e r u l e o f3 e x c l u s i o n a p p l y .

THE COURT: Okay. I m go i ng to ask t h a t anyone5 that s a w i t n e s s in this c a s e , if you ll w a i t o u t s i d e an d n o t6 d i s c u s s t he c a s e among y o u r s e l v e s u n t i l c a l l e d by t he Cour t t o7 testify.

8

910

So I t h i n k t h e r e a r e two o t h e rMR. YOUNG:

THE COURT:

J u s t s t e p o u t s i d e .All r i g h t .

Would you p l e a s e s t e p fo rward t hen , I n e e d you to11 r a i s e y o u r right h a n d .12 Do you swear under p e n a l t y o f pe r ju r y to tell t he13 t r u t h , t h e whole t r u t h , and n o t h i n g b u t t h e t r u t h ?14

151617

181920

THE WITNESS: I do.

THE COURT: p l e a s e be s e a t e d .

NICHOLAS DURALDE,Having been sworn , testified as f o l l o w s :

MR. YOUNG: And Your Honor , l i k e w i s e w i t h o u t any21 d i s r e s p e c t t o t he c o u r t , may I sit down d u r i n g t h e p r o c e e d i n g s ?

222324

THE COURT:MR YOUNG:

You mayThank you.

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23 BY MR YOUNG:

DIRECT EXAMINATION

4 Q S i r c o u ld you - - good m o r n i n g c o u l d you s t a t e y o u r5 first and l a s t name and s p e l l bo t h f o r the r eco r d?6 A Ni cho l as Dur a l de . F i r s t name N - i - c - h o-l-a-s and7 last name O-u r - a - l - d e . MR. YOUNG: And Your H o n o r j u s t to c o n f i r m t h e s e9 pr oceed ings a r e still be ing r eco r ded yes?

1011

12

THE COURT:MR. YOUNG:THE COURT:

Yes.Thank you.r w i l l i n d i c a t e t h a t t h e i n - camera

13 pr oceed ings were r eco r ded as w e l l bu t they were p r e s e r v e d and14 s e a l e d .151617ii20

2122232 .

BY

end

MR.QA

QA

Qto

MR. YOUNG:THE COURT:MR YOUNG:

YOUNG:

Thank you.They a r e s e p a r a t e .Thank you.

S i r wi th whom a r e you c u r r e n t l y employed?The Reno P o l i c e Depar t men t .

How long have you been so employed?Appr ox i ma t e l y f i v e and a h a l f yea r s .Could you tell the Cour t your t r a i n i n g on

become a p o l i c e o f f i c e r wi t h Reno p o l i c e ?

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A We start wi th 19 weeks o f POST c e r t i f i e d academy and2 we f o l l o w t ha t up wi t h 16 weeks of f i e l d t r a i n i n g .3 Q Okay. And have you had t r a i n i n g t h r o u g h o u t as t ime4 goes on t h rough your f i ve and a h a l f yea r s?56

AQ

Yes.And have you passed bo th POST and all subsequen t

7 t r a i n ings?8 A Yes.9 Q Okay. And your c u r r e n t as s ignmen t i s what?

10 A P a t r o l .11 Q Okay. Were you a s s i g n e d to p a t r o l back on12 August 20th of 2011?13

4

AQ

Yes.Okay. And aga in , passed all t r a i n i ngs and FTO

15 programs , and the l i k e , to become on p a t r o l ?161718 t h a t ?19

AQ

A

Yes.Okay. And ve r y b r i e f l y , when I say FTO what i s

It s a f i e l d t r a i n i n g o f f i c e r program, our s i s2 s l i g h t l y d i f f e r e n t , bu t it comple t e s the same

21 g e n e r a l

has the same

22 Q Why d o n t you tell the Cour t what you had to go3 t h rough b e f o r e go i ng ou t as a p a t r o l o f f i c e r ?

24 A The Reno P o l i c e Depar tment uses a PTO program where

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you r i d e wi th a n o t h e r o f f i c e r , as t hey b a s i c a l l y t r a n s i t i on you2 f r o m t h e t r a i n i n g o f f i c e r d o in g all o f t h e wor k , t o a t t h e end3 o f t he t r a i n i ng program making su r e t h a t t he t r a i n i n g o f f i c e r4 c n s a f e l y do all t he t a s k s t h a t t hey - - t h a t theY re r e q u i r e d5 t o d o .6 Q Okay. And d i d you go t h r o u g h t h a t p r o g r a m , sir?7 A Yes .B Q And d id you p a s s t h a t p r o g r a m ?9 A Yes.

10 Q Okay. And aga in , d i r e c t i n g your a t t e n t i o n to11 A u g u s t 2 0 t h o f 2011 , so last y e a r , you s a i d you w e r e a s s i g n e d12 a s a p a t r o l officer t h a t day?13

14

AQ

Yes.Okay . Did something occur s h o r t l y be f o r e mi dn i gh t

15 which b r i n g s you h e r e t o c o u r t ?1617

AQ

18 p l e a s e ?19 A

Yes.Okay. Could you tell t he Judge what t h a t was

I was d i s p a t c h e d t o a c a l l a t the I c a n t remember20 what t h e d i s p a t c h l o c a t i o n was e x a c t l y , b u t it was t h e p l a z a

21 that s a t 1 s t and V i r g i n i a , a c r o s s f rom c i ty h a l l , on a r e p o r t22 o f a a t first d i s p a t c h s a i d i t was a d i s t u r b a n c e , I b e l i e v e23 p o s s i b l y a f i g h t , and t h e n as we wer e on o u r way t h e r e t h e y24 u p d a t e d us s a y i n g t h a t i t was a l a r c e n y t h a t had o c c u r r e d .

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Q And t h i s i s - - t he l o c a t i o n t h a t y o u r e r e f e r r i n g to2 was t h a t a t o r n e a r 10 Nor th V i r g i n i a S t r e e t , o r 1 Nor th Cen te r3 S t r e e t ?4 A Yes.S Q In t h a t g e n e r a l area? I s t h a t in Reno?6 A Yes.7 Q Washoe County , Nevada?8 A Yes.

Q Okay. When y u a r r i v e d , what occur red?1 A When I a r r i v e d the re was a l a r g e group of peop l e on11 C e n t e r S t r e e t , n e a r t h e r i v e r . I c a n t r e c a l l t he - - t he12 d e s c r i p t io n t h a t we wer e g i v e n o f t h e s u s p e c t s t o a l a r c e n y ,13 bu t d i s p a t c h d id g i v e us a d e s c r i p t i o n .14 And when I a r r i v e d t h e r e was a l a r g e group of younger

15 a d u l t s , p o s s i b l y some in t h i r l i k e m i d - t e e n s a l s o , sitting16 down and s t a n d i n g nea r t he de f endan t , Mr. Cough l i n , who was17 sitting down i n t he midd le of t he - - Mr. Coughl in was wear ing18 t he c l o t h i n g d e s c r i b e d to us by d i s pa t c h ..

20MR . LESLIE; I m go i ng to o b j e c t , Your Honor .My o b j e c t i on i s t h a t he c a n t t stify to whether t he

21 c l o t h e s Mr. c o u g h l i n was a l l e g e d l y wear i ng are c o n s i s t e n t wi th22 what d i s p a t c h had t o l d him becaus e he doesn t even remember23 what t he d e s c r i p t i o n of t he s u s p e c t was t h a t d i s p a t c h had g i v e n4 him in t h e first p l a c e .

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1 So I d move t h a t the te s t imony t h a t h i s o b s e r v a t i o n2 was - 3 THE COURT: Let me look here for - -4 MR. YOUNG: T h a t s f i n e , Your Honor .5 TH COURT: Okay And t hen t h e mot ion w i l l be6 g r a n t e d . The o b j e c t i on - -7 MR. LESLIE: Thank you

THE COURT: The t e s t i m o n y wi th r e s p e c t to t he9 c l o t h i n g mat ch i ng the d e s c r i p t i o n g iven by d i s p a t c h i s

10 stricken11 MR. YOUNG: Thank you12 BY MR YOUNG:

1314

15

QA

Q

Of f i c e r , d id you wr i t e a r e p o r t in t h i s case?YesOkay And d id you w r i t e t h i s r e po r t soon a f t e r o r

16 some t ime a f t e r your involvement wi th t h i s case?1718

19

AQA

Yes

Do you r e c a l l a p p r o x i m a t e l y how long?Depar tmen t p o l i c y r e q u i r e s us to wr i t e a r e po r t

20 w i t h i n 48 h o u r s o f an arrest m ade

QA

OkayYes

So p r e t t y soon a f t e r the - - your involvement?212223 MR . YOUNG: Okay I f I cou ld approach , Your Honor?24 BY MR YOUNG:

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Q2 c o r r e c t ?3

4

AQ

showing you wha t a p p e a r s t o be y o u r r e p o r t , i s t h a t

Yes.And t h i s i s a fou r page - - it has some o t h e r t h i n g s ,

5 bu t i t s a fou r page r e p o r t , c o r r e c t ?6

7A

QYes.okay. D i r e c t i n g your a t t e n t i o n to Page 3 second

8 pa r ag r aph , d o n t answer ou t l oud , bu t j u s t rev i ew t h a t r e p o r t ,9 sir, y o u r r e p o r t , let me know if t h a t r e f r e s h e s y o u r

10 r e c o l l e c t i o n as to c lo th i ng and d e s c r i p t o r s t h a t a s r e l a y e d11 to you by d i s p a t c h .12 MR. LESLIE: Your Honor , urn I ll a d d r e s s it later,13 Your Honor neve r mind .14 BY MR YOUNG:

15 Q A f t e r r ev i ewing t h a t , does it r e f r e s h your16 r e c o l l e c t i o n ?17 Yes.1819

A

Q I ll g e t t h i s r e po r t back from you.what was it t h a t - - a s f a r as p a r t i c u l a r s r e g a r d i n g a

20 p o t e n t i a l s u s p e c t d i s p a t c h a d v i s e d you o f ?

21 THE COURT: Bef or e do you answer t h a t , d id you havean o b j e c t i o n ?

MR. LESLIE: I d i d n t have an o b j e c t i o n , I was24 l ook ing a t Mr. cough l i n s copy on h i s compute r o f t he p o l i c e

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1 r e po r t and by do i ng so I was ab le to f ind the i n f o r m a t i o n I2 t hough t I needed.3 THE COURT: Okay.

BY MR YOUNG:56

QA

Go ahead sir.The suspec t d e s c r i b e d was d e s c r i b e d as a whi te

7 male appr ox ima te ly 6'2 , 210 pounds wear i ng a r ed Chicago8 ha t .9 Q

I remember a l i gh t co lo red s h i r t and p l a i d s h o r t s .Okay. Now f a s t forward to when you a r r i v e d

10 on- scene d i d you see an i n d i v i d u a l who matched t h i s11 de sc r i p t i on?12

13

AQ

Yes .Okay. I s the pe r son who was c o n s i s t e n t wi th t ha t

14 d e s c r i p t i o n is t h a t pe r son in the cour t room today?151617

AQ

Yes he i s .Would you p o i n t t ha t pe r son ou t to the Judge?THE COURT: The r eco r d w i l l r e f l e c t the

18 i d e n t i f i c a t i o n of t he defendan t .9 BY MR YOUNG:

20 Q Okay. Did you make v e r b a l c o n t a c t wi th Mr. Coughl in

21 a t t ha t p o i n t ?2223

24

AQA

Yes.And cou ld you tell the Cour t what happened?The first t h ing t ha t I r e c a l l say ing to Mr. Coughl in

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was if he had s omeone s p h o n e , i he g a v e it b c k to them t h a t2 t he whole would pr obab ly be taken c a r e o f a t t h a t po i n t .3 Q Do you r e c a l l wh a t Mr. C o u g h l i n s r e s p o n s e was i4 any?5 A Mr. Coughl in asked me i t h i s was a Terry s t o p . and6 if I had a u t h o r i t y t o do that.7 Q Okay . So d i d he answer your q u e s t i o n o r i n q u i r y8 a b o u t w h e t h e r he h ad a phone?9

10AQ

No h e d i d n o t .Okay. What was Mr. Co u g h l in s g e n e r a l demeanor o r

11 l e v e l o f c o o p e r a t i v e n e s s w i th you d u r i n g t h i s i n v e s t i g a t i o n ?1213

AQ

He was c o n f r o n t a t i o n a l .Okay. Did y u advise . Coughl i n t h a t you were

14 c o n d u c t i n g an i n v e s t i g a t i o n i n t o a p o s s i b l e t h e f t o f a phone?

1516

AQ

Yes.okay . At any t ime d i d he r e l a y to you o r tell you

17 that he d i d , i n fact h a v e so meb o d y else s p h o n e ?18

1920

AQA

NO.Okay. What happened a t t h a t po in t ?Mr. Co u g h l in - - a9 p a r t o f my t r a i n i n g and

21 e x p e r i e n c e , when someone i s u n c o o p e r a t i v e and c o n f r o n t a t i o n a l22 when w e r e s p e a k i n g w i th them t h e r e s a possibility t h a t t h e i r23 v e r b a l u n c o o p e r a t i o n c o u l d t u r n i n t o p h y s i c a l - - a p h y s i c a l24 a l t e r c a t i o n , o r j u s t p h y s i c a l u n c o o p e r a t i o n .

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2MR . LESLIE:MR. YOUNG;

I m go i ng to o b j e c t , l a ck of f ounda t ion .He s a i d b a sed on h i s t r a i n i n g and

3 e x p e r i e n c e . I t h i n k that s all t he f o u n d a t i o n he needs .4 MR. LESLIE; T h a t s a c o n c l u s i o n a r y s t a t e m e n t , it s5 no t t he illiciting o f f o u n d a t i o n a l t e s t i m o n y from t he w i t n e s s ,6 I d o n t t h i n k a f o u n d a t i o n has been l a i d .78

THE COURT:MR LESLIE:

Founda t i on - - be s p e c i f i cAl l he s a i d i s bas ed on my t r a i n i n g ,

9 peop l e t h a t don t c o o p e r a t e o r answer my q u e s t i o n s cou ld be10 dange rous . T h e r e s no f o u n d a t i o n f o r t h a t c o n c l u s i o n . He s a i d11 it, bu t t h a t d o e s n t mean t h a t t h e r e s any f o u n d a t i o n f o r t h a t12 c o n c l u s i o n .13 THE COURT: I w i l l s u s t a i n it w i t h o u t more t h a n - - I4 mean what s p e c i f i c t r a i n i n g was it t h a t he had l e a r n e d t h a t

15 from?16 MR. YOUNG: Sure .7 BY MR YOUNG;

18 Q And sir, I ll as k you n add i t i o n to ans wer i ng what19 t r a i n i n g you l e a r n e d t h a t , if t h e r e s a l s o been p r i o r i n s t a n c e s20 in y o u r e x p e r i e n c e where noncoope ra t ion and c o n f r o n t a t i o n on21 t he f r o n t end has t u r n e d i n t o p h y s i c a l v i o l e n c e a n d / o r use o f22 weapons?23 MR. LESLIE:24 MR YOUNG;

I m go i ng to o b j e c t , r e l e v a n c e .wel l , Mr. L e s l i e wants to know

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1 f o u n d a t i o n t h a t c e r t a i n l y goes t o f o u n d a t i o n .2

3THE COURT: I t h i n k it s a d i f f e r e n t qu e s t ion .As I unde r s tand the o b j e c t i o n j u s t to I ll

4 s u s t a i n the second o b j e c t i o n becaus e I do t h i n k it s5 i r r e l e v a n t .6 But as f o r the first o b j e c t i o n I t h i n k t h a t t he r e was7 some s p e c i f i c t r a i n i n g t h a t he had t h a t d id s ay t h a t t hen I8 t h ink t h a t would be a pr ope r f ounda t ion .

BY MR YOUNG:10 Q

AO f f i c e r i f t h e r e i s any th ing s pe c i f i c?No s p e c i f ic c l a s s bu t t would have been th rough t h e

12 t ime I spen t wi t h a t r a i n i n g o f f i c e r where t hey have to t ake13 someone who b a s i c a l l y has gone t h rough life want i ng to t r u s t14 p e o p l e and l e a r n to teach us how to be more s k e p t i c a l to keep15 us and o the r s s a f e .16 THE COURT : I w i l l a l low the t e s t imony t h a t was17 p r e v i o u s l y o b j e c t e d to .18 MR YOUNG: Thank you .9 BY MR YOUNG:

20 Q So in a d d i t i o n to you were say ing bas ed on your21 t r a i n i n g and e x p e r i e n c e would yo u go ahead and f i n i s h your22 prev io u s t e s t imony?23 A Well bas ed on Mr. Coughl in s d e meanor he was a l s o24 wear i ng c l o t h e s which were loose enough to concea l a we apon I

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1 compl e t ed a pat -down sea r ch fo r weapons of Mr Coughl in .234

QAQ

Okay This was aga in j us t shy o f midn igh t , c o r r e c t ?YesCan you e x p l a i n in t h i s s p e c i f i c l o c a t i o n what the

5 l i g h t i n g was l i ke ?6 A

7 t he r e .

9

10

QAQ

The l i g h t i n g i s t h e r e s a l o t o f l i g h t i n g r i g h t

Okay .T he r e s s t r e e t l i g h t s .Okay How many peop le were on scene when you

11 a r r i v e d , ba l lpa r k?12 A I would say be tween e i g h t and 12 .1314

16

QAQ

Okay And t ha t i n c l u d e s Mr Cough l i n?YesAl l r i g h t .And s p e c i f i c a l l y you were t a l k i ng about what d i s pa t c h

17 adv ised , and I may have missed it why were you r e spond ing ou t18 to t h i s a r e a f o r d i s p a t c h ?19 A At first they s a id it might it was a d i s tu r ba nc e ,20 pos s ib ly a f i g h t .2122

QA

okayAnd then gave us updated i n fo rmat ion t ha t a l a r c e n y

23 had p o s s i b l y occu r red .24 Q Okay And the first c a l l t ha t came in adv ised it was

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1 a p o s s i b l e f i g h t ?2

3AQ

4 s e a r c h .

YesOkay And t h e n you s t a t e d t h a t you d id a p a t - down

Could you d e s c r i b e what t ha t i s , and s p e c i f i c to5 Mr Coughl in , how you conducted t h a t ?6 For a pa t -down s e a r c h w e r e b a s i c a l l y check ing7 s omeone s pe r son to make sure t ha t no weapons were c o n c e a l e d8 under t h e i r c l o t h i n g .9 Q Okay

10 A I d o n t r e c a l l how e x a c t l y I went t h rough the whole11 s e a r c h , bu t t hey t e ach us t o m e t h o d i c a l l y check o v e r l a p p i n g12 a r e a s so t ha t we d o n t miss a n y t h i n g .13 When I r e c a l l when I checked Mr C o u g h l i n s r i g h t14 s ide , he had a phone in h i s f r on t s ho r t s pocke t .15 MR LESLIE:16 t h a t he had a phone .

I m go i ng to o b j e c t to the t e s t i m o n yI t h ink the o f f i c e r i s drawing an

17 improper c o n c l u s i o n .18.

20

2122 a phone.2324

THE COURT: All r i g h t .I w i l l s u s t a in t h a t o b j e c t i o n .But you can d e s c r i b e what you felt

THE WITNESS: I f e l t an o b jec t t h a t I b e l i e v e d to be

MR LESLIE: I o b j e c t .He can d e s c r i b e how he f e l t bu t not h i s c o n c l u s i o n s .

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THE COURT: Okay. I w i l l s u s t a i n t he o b j e c t i o n , t he2 answer , you can de s c r ibe the s t a t emen t and e v e r y t h i n g e l s e in3 minor detail to which - - ( i n a u d i b l e ) t h e o b j e c t i o n4 THE WITNESS: I d o n t r e c a l l any d e t a i l s o u t s i d e o f5 my c o n c l u s i o n .6 MR YOUNG: Okay. T h a t s o k a y .7 THE COURT: You recall t h e ( i n a u d i b l e )8 THE WITNESS: NO I c a n t s a y that I did9 BY MR YOUNG:

10 Q Okay Do you r e c a l l whi l e you were conduc t ing t h i s11 p a t - d o w n w h a t , if a n y t h i n g , Mr. C o u g h l i n s a i d o r y e l l e d ?12 A As I was c o n t i n u i n g wi t h t he pat -down, and I go t to13 Mr. C o u g h l i n s left f r o n t s h o r t s pocke t , he began y e l l i n g14 s omet h i ng a l ong t he l i n e s abou t h i s

15 t o u c h i n g h i s p e n i s .

i n a p p r o p r i a t e l y m

16171819

QAQ

Okay Were you?NO.Al l r i g h t .Okay. At t h i s t ime , up to t he p o i n t t h a t y o u v e

20 testified now a t any t ime d i d you r e a c h your hands i n t o any

21 p o c k e t s of Mr. Cough l in?2223

24

AQA

No.And I s hou l d a s k t h i s , d id h i s s h o r t s have pocke t s?Yes.

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Q Okay. You were d e s c r i b i n g k i nd o f a s e a r c h f o r2 weapons?3 A Yes.4 Q Y o u r e f a m i l i a r wi t h t h e s e a r c h i n c i d e n t to a r r e s t ?5 A Yes.6 Q I g u e s s - - which i s a t ho r ough s e a r c h ?7 A Yes.8 Q Okay. Your p a t - down s e a r c h , a s you d e s c r i b e d it, how9 i n t ru s i v e i s t h a t as compared to a s e a r c h i n c i d e n t to a r r e s t ?

10 A A search i nc i de n t to a r r e s t we would put. our hands in11 sameone s p o c k e t s , t a k e all t h e i tems o u t , b a s i c a l l y w e r e12 l o ok i ng f o r any c o n t r a b a n d o r i l l e g a l i t ems , down to13 any ( i n a u d i b l e ) - - wer e - - l o c a t e d a g ra i n o f methamphetamine14 t h a t w e i g h e d a hundred t .h o f a gram.

15 Q Okay. And that s what yOU r e t a l k i n g abou t in s e a r c h16 i n c i d e n t to a r r e s t ?7 A Ye s

18 Q What I m cu r ious then i s how i n t r u s i v e as compared to19 t h a t s e a r c h was your p a t - down search of Mr. Co ugh l in?20

21

A

Q

I would say not i n t r u s i v e.

Okay. And why? Can you e xp la in e xa c t l y what it i s22 your - - I know you sa i d y o u r e search ing fo r weapons . but what23 are you s p e c i f i c a l l y doing?24 A e touched t he ou t s ide of the c l o t h i ng .

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2

~ ~

Q Okay.THE COURT: Mr. Young I was j u s t t h i n k i n g , you h a v e

3 two p e o p l e sitting ou t t h e r e , w e r e go i ng to p r o b a b l y no t g e t4 beyond him t h i s morn ing , so do you want t o let them know to5 come b a c k o r c o n t i n u e to sit t h e r e ?6 MR. YOUNG: T h e y r e o k a y to sit t h e r e f o r now7 Your Honor . I8

9

THE COURT:MR YOUNG:

Al l r i g h t .For now I ll j u s t l e ave them t h e r e if

10 t h a t I s all r i g h t . .THE COURT: All r i g h t .

12 BY MR. YOUNG:

13

4

15

QA

Q

Okay.No.

Okay.

Dur iog t h i s s e a r c h , d i d you f e e l any weapons?

So d i d you r e a c h i n t o Mr. C o u g h l i n s p o c k e t s16 a t any t i m e a t this p o i n t ?171819

AQA

No.Okay. What happened a f t e r your pat -down sea r ch?Mr. Cough l i n began to y e l l t h a t I was i na pp r op r i a t e l y

20 t o u c h i n g him. As he was becoming more uncoopera t ive , I placed

21 him in handcuf f s .22

23

QA

Okay. And t hen what happened?From t h e r e o t h e r o f f i c e r s had a r r i ve d , Mr. Coughl in

24 was left wi th when I go t to h i s left f r on t pocke t , I d i d n t

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~ ~

1 s t e p bac k2

3

QA

okay .I felt an o b j e c t a p p r o x i m a t e l y f o u r i n c h e s l ong ,

4 t h r e e i n c h e s wide , and p r o b a b l y a b o u t a h a l f i n c h t h i c k t h a t5 was consistent w i t h a p h o n e .

78

10

12

1314

ISI .1718

20

left

who

t h a t

Q Okay . And t h a t was when you g o t to h i s left f r o n t - -f r o n t p o c k e t o f h i s shorts?A YesQ Okay . Go on .A So t h e n Mr cough l in was left wi t h t h e o t h e r o f f i c e r s

were on s c e n e , and I made c o n t a c t wi t h t he v ic t im .Q Do you r e c a l l t he v i c t im s name?A I r e c a l l h i s l a s t name .Q What was t h a t ?

A Z a r a t e .Q OkayA I as ked him what had o c c u r r e d , in summary he t o l d me

h i s phone had been -MR LESLIE: O b j e c t i o n , h e a r s a y .MR. YOUNG: It s n o t it s n o t h e a r s a y b e c a u s e it

21 goes t o the e f f e c t on the he re wi th r e s p e c t wi th t h i s suppr e s s .22 THE COURT: I ll o v e r r u l e t h i s o b j e c t i o n , it s no t23 a d m i t t e d f o r p u r p o s e s o f t h e truth, an d t h e ( i n a u d i b l e )

24 MR. LESLIE: w e l l , Y o u r H o n o r , I d a l s o o b j e c t b a s e d

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1 o r e l e v a n c e .2 W e r e a t t a c k i n g t he pat -down, t h i s i s no t germane to3 t h e p a t - d o w n , this i s b r o a d e r i n v e s t i g a t i o n , so it s n o t4 r e l e v a n t .5 THE COURT: So y o u r e o b j e c t i n g t h a t t h e r e was a6 p a t - d o w n ? Y o u r e o b j e c t i n g t h a t t h e r e was a p a t - down s e a r c h ?7 MR. LESLIE; W e r e a t t a c k i n g in our mot ion to8 s u p p r e s s the v a l i d i t y of t he pa t -down s e a r c h .9 Thi s t e s t i m o n y now abou t i s d i s c u s s i o n s wi th

10 w i t n e s s e s i s pa rt o f h i s b r o a d e r i n v e s t i g a t i o n which is n o t11 r e l e v a n t to whether o r not he was j u s t i f i e d in p a t t i n g down12 Mr. C o u g h l i n a t an earlier s t a g e .13 THE COURT: Wel l , I agr ee wi t h t h a t . So t he pa t -down14 d id no t r e s u l t in any s e a r c h .15 c o r r e c t l y

I f I u n d e r s t o o d t h i s

16 MR. LESLIE: I v e s t a t e d my o b j e c t i o n .17 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , t h e m o t i o n t o s u p p r e s s a l s o18 a t t a c k s t h e p l a i n f i e l d d o c t r i n e t a l k i n g a b o u t t h i s r e a c h i n g19 i n t o t h e p h o n e .20 to s u p p r e s s .

This goes d i r e c t l y to t h a t p a r t of t h e mot ion

21 THE COURT: w e l l , t h e r e a c h i n g i n t o t h e phone is22 s u b s e q u e n t t o t h e p a t - d o w n - - I mean it w a s n t p a r t o f t he23 p a t - down, was it?24 MR. YOUNG: Wel l , t h a t s - - that s wha t I m

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1 a t t e m p t i n g to show to t he Cour t t h rough t e s t imony .2 THE COURT; I m go i ng to o v e r r u l e t he o b j e c t i o n ,3 becaus e I am not c l e a r I u n d e r s t a n d t h e f a c t s o f t h i s case , and4 it s - -5 MR. YOUNG; Sure .

Y MR YOUNG;7 Q And if - - you ment i oned , sir, t h a t you r e c a l l e d t he8 v i c t im s l a s t name and I shou ld say a l l e g e d v i c t i m a t t h i s9 j unc tu r e , t he a l l eged v ic t im s l a s t name as Z a r a t e , c o r r e c t ?

1011

AQ

YesOkay You pu t i n your r e po r t a d i f f e r e n t name f o r

12 t he v i c t i m . Are you I j u s t want to make su r e t h a t t he13 r e c o r d s c l e a r as f a r as who t he a l l e g e d v i c t i m i s a t t h i s14 p o i n t .15 Do you r e c a l l as you sit h e r e r i g h t now t he a c t u a l16 f u l l first and l a s t name of t he a l l e g e d v i c t i m ?171819

AQ

Nookay .MR. YOUNG; I f I cou ld approach , Your Honor?

20 Y MR YOUNG;

21 Q And aga in , I m go i ng to show you aga in , t h i s i s22 Page 4 o f the same r e p o r t you were r e f e r r i n g e a r l i e r t o .23

24

AQ

YesOkay Does r ev i ewing t h i s r e po r t h e l p r e f r e s h your

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1 r e c o l l e c t i o n ?Yes.

3AQ Th e r e was a c t u a l l y two i n d i v i d u a l s t h a t you s p o k e

4 w i t h y e s?5 A Yes.6 Q Okay The - - a g a i n a t t h i s j u n c t u r e t h e a l l e g e d7 v i c t i m who was t h a t ?8 A Co ry G o b l e .

Q Okay . And t h e n t h e r e was a n o t h e r i n d i v i d u a l you10 spoke w i t h who was t h a t ?

1213

AQ

His last name i s Z a r a t e .Okay A l l right.When s p e a k i n g w i t h Mr G o b l e what was t t h a t

14 Mr Goble a d v i s e d you?

15 A He a d v i s e d me t h a t h i s p h o n e h ad b e e n t a k e n a f r i e n d16 had s e e n it be t a k e n a n d p o i n t e d t h e p e r s o n o u t who had t h e17 phone t o him.18.

QA

OkayHe had c o n f r o n t e d t h e s u b j e c t t h a t he i d entif i e d a s

20 Mr C o u g h l i n a n d a sk e d f o r h i s phone b a c k . He was t o l d by

21 Mr C o u g h l i n t h a t he didn t have a p h o n e s o he c a l l e d t h e22 p h o n e and when he d i l e d h i s phone number he saw t h e phone23 s c r e e n

MR L E S L I E : A g a i n o b j e c t on h e a r s a y .

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234

56

7

u t t e r s it.

MR YOUNG:THE COURT:MR LESLIE:

THE COURT:MR. LESLIE:THE COURT:

It goes to the e f f e c t on t heIt s o v e r r u l e d aga in .

I w o n t keep do i ng it e v e r y t ime he

I u n d e r s t a n d .I just want to b e c l e a r .

I t h i n k it goes to t he officer s PC8 p o s s i b l y f o r t h e arrest, o r w h a t e v e r h a p p e n e d , w h i c h I d o n t9 know a t t h i s p o i n t .

10 MR. LESLIE: Why d o n t I s t a t e t t h i s way I ll11 o b j e c t . May I h a v e a c o n t i n u i n g o b j e c t i o n in t he m o t i o n to12 suppr e s s to t he o f f i c e r testify to what w i t n e s s e s t o l d him?1314

15

MR. YOUNG:THE COURT:

MR. LESLIE:

T h a t s f i ne .A b s o l u t e l y .

Thank you , Your Honor . Then I d o n t16 h a v e to interrupt e v e r y t i m e .17 THE COURT: There may be a t some p o i n t when t he18 o b j e c t i o n is n o t s u s t a i n e d - - o r it w o u l d b e s u s t a i n e d , so19 that s my o n l y c o n c e r n , b u t a t - - a t t h i s p o i n t I m g o i n g to20 o v e r r u l e t h e o b j e c t i o n , b e c a u s e I don t b e l i e v e it s o f f e r e d

21 f o r t h e t r u t h o f t h e t e s t i m o n y .2223

MR. YOUNG:THE COURT:

24 Y MR . YOUNG:

Th ank you , Your Honor .Okay.

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1 Q O f f i c e r , you were s t a t i n g t h a t Mr Goble a d v i s e d you2 t h a t wh a t he f rom 6 0 m e o n e s phone h i s number was c a l l e d ,3 and I b e l i e v e where your t e s t i m o n y ended b e f o r e t he o b j e c t i o n4 w s that h e t o l d y o u h e saw h i s a s c r e e n l i g h t up , is t h a t5 c o r r e c t ?,7

8 u p ?

AQ

A

Yeah .Okay Did he tell you where he saw t h a t s c r e e n l i g h t

He s a i d he saw t h e s c r e e n l i g h t up n Mr C o u g h l i n s10 left s h o r t s p o c k e t .

Q Okay At t h a t p o i n t as p a r t o f y o u r i n v e s t i g a t i o n ,12 I m n o t g o i n g t o h a v e y o u g e t into details, b u t d i d y o u a l s o13 s p e a k w i t h M r Z a r a t e ?I

15

1718

20

212223

d i d

cell

w i t h

A Y es .

Q Okay D i d you o b t a i n , after s p e a k i n g w i t h M r G o b l e ,you o b t a i n Mr G o b l e s c e l l phone n u mb er?A YesQ Okay And d i d you t h e n c a l l t h a t number?A YesQ Okay Could you tell t he Co u r t wh a t happened?

A I moved nex t t o Mr Cough l i n , I d i a l e d Mr G o b l e sphone n u mb er I c o u l d h e a r a v i b r a t i n g n o i s e c o n s i s t e n ta v i b r a t i n g cell phone when it s c a l l e d . And t h e n p l a c e d

24 t h e back o f my hand to the o u t s i d e o f Mr c o u g h l i n s left f r o n t

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1 s h o r t s pocke t , and f e l t pr es umab l y Mr. G o b l e s phone t h a t I was2 c a l l i n g , v i b r a t i n g in Mr. C o u g h l i n s l ft f r on t s ho r t s pocke t .3 Q Okay. And d i d you u l t i m a t e l y t e r mi n a t e t h a t c a l l , o r4 hang up t h a t c a l l ?56

AQ

Yes.And what happened with r e s pe c t to the v i b r a t i o n t h a t

7 you f e l t and heard? A When I ended the c a l l from my phone the v i b r a t i o n s9 s topped .

1 Q Okay. And were you ab le to f e e l t ha t ?11 A Yes.12 Q Were you l i k e w i s e a b l e t o hear t h a t ?13 A Yes.l Q Okay. And a t t ha t po in t what d id you do?15 A At t h a t po in t I f e l t I had pr obab le cause and16 Mr. Coughl in was in p o s s e s s i o n of Mr. G o b l e s phone and17 Mr. Coughl in was p laced in handcuf f s and s e a r c h i n c i d e n t to18 a r r e s t .19 Q Okay. Well I mean you p l a c e d him in h

8 29 12 0204 063341 cr12-2025 transcript by rjc leslie r ocrd a9

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